Relationship Red Flags with Kait and JJ Tomlin

Summary

Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt: Episode Summary – "Relationship Red Flags with Kait and JJ Tomlin"

Release Date: August 11, 2025

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of "Stay True", host Madison Prewett Troutt is joined by relationship coaches Kait and JJ Tomlin to discuss the crucial topic of relationship red flags. The conversation delves into understanding different dating personalities, identifying red flags versus deal breakers, navigating current trends in Christian dating, and establishing healthy spiritual boundaries.

Understanding Dating Personalities

Madison introduces Kait and JJ as relationship and dating coaches who co-host the podcast "Heart of Dating". They present a dating personality quiz designed to help individuals understand themselves and their potential partners better. The quiz categorizes daters into six distinct types:

1. Lone Wolf:

   • Description: Highly independent individuals who fear being needed and commitment, often delaying or avoiding binding relationships.
   • Quote: “They are just hyper individual and afraid of being needed” ([09:11] – Grant).

2. Hopeless Romantic:

   • Description: Dreamers who invest deeply in love but may overlook red flags due to their idealistic view of relationships.
   • Quote: “They're wearing rose-colored glasses. So every single flag looks just like a flag” ([07:27] – JJ).

3. Overthinker:

   • Description: Highly critical thinkers who analyze every aspect of a relationship, often leading to fear and withdrawal.
   • Quote: “They're overanalyzing everything, maybe run away because they're too critical” ([07:00] – JJ).

4. Safety Seeker:

   • Description: Individuals who prioritize being in a relationship over the quality, settling for comfort over potential.
   • Quote: “They’ll settle because they don’t believe they can get something better” ([08:58] – Kate).

5. Wanderer:

   • Description: Fun-loving, commitment-averse personalities who prioritize enjoyment and are often hesitant to build lasting relationships.
   • Quote: “They are addicted to the fun energy and have a fear of a better option” ([09:13] – Grant).

6. Intentional Romantic:

   • Description: The healthiest type, characterized by deliberate and purposeful relationship-building, though they may struggle with pride at times.
   • Quote: “They hold others to high standards, almost too impossible to meet” ([11:09] – JJ).

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Personal Stories and Quiz Insights

Madison, Kait, and JJ take the quiz live, revealing themselves as Intentional Romantics. They share personal anecdotes about their dating journeys, highlighting the importance of finding peace and aligned purpose in relationships.

• Madison's Story: Madison recounts a past relationship where her partner broke up with her, emphasizing the need for peace and purpose alignment.

  • Quote: “I know he was my husband. God had already spoken to me” ([16:57] – Madison).

• Kait and JJ's Experience: They discuss how they overcame initial red flags and built a strong, intentional relationship.

  • Quote: “He was more physically attracted to me after childbirth because he saw my spirit and godliness” ([54:54] – Grant).

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Key Topics Discussed

1. Teachability and Spiritual Growth in Dating

JJ emphasizes the importance of teachability in a partner, stating:

• Quote: “The prerequisite for every person, I think, should be teachability” ([57:31]).

2. Pickiness vs. Intentionality

The discussion distinguishes between being picky and being intentional. Madison and Kait highlight the necessity of high godly standards versus unrealistic worldly expectations.

• Quote: “How do you know what's like high godly standards? This is what God has called me to” ([46:51] – Madison).

3. Red Flags vs. Deal Breakers

They clarify that red flags are “stop signs” to gather more information, whereas deal breakers are unequivocal reasons to end a relationship.

• Quote: “Red flag is a stop sign... Deal breaker is a U-turn, run, forest, run” ([59:30] – JJ).

4. Handling Habitual Sin in Relationships

Grant discusses addressing issues like pornography and addiction, stressing the importance of godly repentance over worldly repentance.

• Quote: “Godly repentance leads to sorrow, but worldly repentance leads to sin” ([60:18] – Grant).

5. Spiritual Boundaries in Dating

The trio reflects on maintaining spiritual boundaries, ensuring that emotional and spiritual intimacy develop appropriately within the relationship's timeframe.

• Quote: “Pray together as individuals, but not as one” ([69:54] – JJ).

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Current Trends in Christian Dating

Madison highlights the increasing number of singles in the church and the cultural decline in the appeal of marriage. She mentions:

• Quote: “The church has never been as single as it is today” ([41:22] – Madison).

JJ adds that many Christian women feel there are “no good Christian guys left,” a misconception he seeks to dispel by encouraging prayer and support rather than criticism.

• Quote: “If you're only focusing on that, then it will never become better” ([41:22] – JJ).

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Recommendations and Insights

The guests advocate for:

• Curiosity Over Judgment: Approaching dating with a spirit of curiosity rather than immediate judgment.

  • Quote: “Always approach every date with curiosity... honor the God image in them” ([30:45] – JJ).

• Building on Character and Spiritual Alignment: Prioritizing character, spiritual alignment, and mutual growth over physical attraction.

  • Quote: “I want you to be attracted to their godliness” ([51:09] – JJ).

• Healthy Boundary-Setting: Establishing appropriate boundaries to maintain the sanctity and purpose of Christian relationships.

  • Quote: “There’s no need to get emotionally, spiritually, physically naked right off the bat” ([71:13] – Grant).

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Conclusion

Madison wraps up the episode by reaffirming the importance of identifying red flags, setting clear standards, and seeking relationships that foster mutual growth and spiritual alignment. She also promotes her new book, "Dare to be True," which explores similar themes of truth and freedom in personal life and relationships.

• Quote: “This book is for you... Dare to be True” ([20:48] – Madison).

Listeners are left with valuable insights on maintaining healthy relationships, understanding personal dating tendencies, and prioritizing spiritual growth.

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Notable Quotes

1. Grant: “The Wanderer is probably one of the number one cancers killing healthy relationships and dating” ([09:26]).

2. JJ: “We use attraction on a scale of, like, ranking privately” ([47:37]).

3. Madison: “When you know the truth, it's the truth that will set you free” ([20:49] – paraphrased).

4. Kait: “It's why you see those couples that have been together for 40 years say, 'I'm more attracted to her than I've ever been'” ([51:23]).

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This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of relationship dynamics within the Christian dating scene, offering actionable advice and personal anecdotes that resonate with listeners seeking to stay true in their relationships.

Transcript

[Grant]

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[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Typically takes 15 days.

[Grant]

Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone 16 128GB8 2,999 eligible trade in eg iPhone.

[Kate Tomlin]

11 Pro for well qualified credits end.

[Grant]

And balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact T Mobile. If you're getting married and I asked you, hey, what red flag they have? And you look at me and you say none. Do not get married. Cuz you have like no idea what you're signing up for.

[J.J. Tomlin]

80% of guys are just waiting for a big open door. My favorite way to do it is send a birdie, AKA a wing woman.

[Kate Tomlin]

I still want to know, like, why'd you go on that show?

[Grant]

So was that a red flag or did you welcome that?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So he broke up with me.

[Grant]

The church has never been as single as it is today. I think we're pickier than ever before. Culturally, like marriage has just been less appealing than it ever has been before.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Can the girl make the first move? Or do guys like the ability to pursue? And is that that what's most important right now?

[Kate Tomlin]

20, 25, what are y' all seeing that can maybe help people that are going, what's, what's the trends right now?

[J.J. Tomlin]

On our first in person date, we went to In n Out. And the way he ate his burger and licked his fingers like you guys, I just had. The boy was just hungry.

[Kate Tomlin]

He hadn't eaten all day.

[Grant]

That is so out of context. There's not a nice way to eat it.

[Kate Tomlin]

They forgot napkins, right?

[Grant]

Yeah, of course.

[J.J. Tomlin]

No. No, they did not.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout hosting with me today. I have my handsome husband.

[Kate Tomlin]

It's really good to be here.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Really good. And we have.

[Kate Tomlin]

Oh, man.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Some of our close friends.

[Kate Tomlin]

Oh, man.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

In the podcast.

[Kate Tomlin]

Who's here?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Kate and J.J. tomlin.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Let's go, let's go. This is so podcast.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

H. Welcome.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Thanks for having us.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I can't believe it took us this long.

[Grant]

I know. It was a long time. Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

But we also just discovered they haven't asked us to be on theirs.

[Kate Tomlin]

No, they had. I think we got Sick. Remember that way back when.

[Grant]

Oh, this is awkward.

[Kate Tomlin]

This is. Yeah, we got sick. So we were playing hard to get.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

And now we finally.

[Grant]

Yeah. That's good cover time. Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I like this podcast on how it goes. Is a test on if we're going to do anymore.

[Kate Tomlin]

We'll see good fit.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Well, Kate and JJ are amazing. Clearly some of our close friends, but they also have their own podcast. Like, we're talking about Heart of Dating.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And if you are single dating, I very much encourage you to go and listen to this podcast because that's what we're actually going to be talking about today. But you guys, you are dating coaches. Relationship coaches.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah. Dating coaches. I would say dating coaches. Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And you've helped so many people just steward singleness and dating, and I'm just so thankful because relationships are hard, and there's a lot of things you got to look out for in today. Even in the Christian space.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes.

[Kate Tomlin]

I would say especially.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Especially in the Christian space.

[Grant]

I agree.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah, I agree.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So we're going to go there today.

[J.J. Tomlin]

We're going to go all. All the things.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

All the things. But they just told us right before we press record that one of the new things that they have going on is a dating quiz.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Dating personality quiz.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Dating personality quiz. And Gray and I are going to take it.

[Grant]

Yes.

[Kate Tomlin]

So explain it before we take it to us.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It might tell us that we're not compatible.

[Grant]

I probably will ab. From what we've heard.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Really honest. Otherwise, you guys will get the healthiest types.

[Kate Tomlin]

No, we're gonna be super honest. But what is this? For someone that.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah. So basically, I wanted to come up with this tool that helps people understand themselves a little bit better when it comes to dating and maybe helps them understand the person they're dating. So if you get really into it. Right. You can maybe not on the first date or second date. You don't want to be like that person on a second date being like, hey, can you take this dating personality quiz so I can find out?

[Grant]

Kate did that to me, you know, for attachment style. Yeah. It was, like, the third date.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I did not attach.

[Grant]

She's speaking from experience.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

What's your trauma from experience?

[J.J. Tomlin]

Like, are you. Which she is.

[Kate Tomlin]

But you have blue hair, right?

[Grant]

Yeah, I have blue hair. Platinum hair, back and forth.

[Kate Tomlin]

Hey, we'll take the test.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Weren't you wearing, like, an animal shirt or something?

[J.J. Tomlin]

Well, he wears those all the time.

[Kate Tomlin]

So that's not the.

[Grant]

That one.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Never.

[Grant]

She, like, hid them for a little while, and I found them. Yeah, she had like locked. Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I did not.

[Grant]

I thought I did.

[Kate Tomlin]

You just placed them.

[Grant]

He was like, baby bought some new ones.

[Kate Tomlin]

They somehow got in the attic. I don't know who put.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I know, like, it was me.

[Grant]

I kid you not. They went missing, though, and I found.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Them and I bought Squirrel one, which I actually like. The Squirrel one.

[Grant]

I know, me too. But that point aside, the tool is also really helpful because I. I feel like not all dating advice is pertinent or relevant for each individual. So it's really helpful to just kind of tailor specific advice for each kind of maybe personality type. Yeah. Depending on how you, you know, how you are as a person. The best advice applies to all people. But sometimes you got to get a little granular because.

[J.J. Tomlin]

So, for example, not to cut you off. But the advice of like, don't settle, which we hear a lot of people say, it's really good advice, but for the wrong personality type, it's bad for them to hear. So for example, there's six different types. There's the Wanderer. Okay. And that is a type that is very bouncy. They want to have fun. They are like, they're. They're great at dating, but they also are dating a ton and never committing. Right. So for them, the don't settle is perfect because they're like, great. Yeah. I'm never going to commit. I'm just going to keep having this super high list.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

And never actually see that. Yeah. Sometimes dating takes some challenge. Sometimes it takes some work. Sometimes it takes high emotions from the female I'm dating. And I have to deal with those instead of being like by, you know, so don't settle for that person. Like females, what you know about it?

[Grant]

Why did grand. I look at each other.

[Kate Tomlin]

Why did we just connect so deeply on that moment?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

They both were like, yeah, we had to go through that.

[Grant]

No, no, not at all.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

We, Our relationship. What do you mean? Our relationship is perfect. We never struggle.

[Grant]

Like, very low maintenance.

[J.J. Tomlin]

So not.

[Kate Tomlin]

What are the six types?

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes.

[Kate Tomlin]

Just so we can guess ours before we are one.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Oh, let's do that.

[Kate Tomlin]

Let's do that.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Okay. The first type is the lone wolf. So that is. I mean, it's kind of self explanatory. Right. It's Mr. Ms. Independent. They are the person that definitely fears commitment, but they fear commitment because they're just. They're hyper individual. They're just worried that somebody's really gonna need them. And they are afraid of being needed. And so they will eventually commit. But probably over a very long time, they're like a stone wall at first, you know, really guarding people. Okay, the second type. This is a big one. Hopeless romantic. Ever heard of that?

[Kate Tomlin]

We love. Tell me more about me.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Exactly.

[Kate Tomlin]

She said a bad dater on our last podcast.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I'm just going to say she said you were good. I married him. I thought he was a hopeless romantic.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah, I was like, what?

[Grant]

I'm like, wait, so you were bad at dating?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

No, he was really good. He wooed me when we were dating.

[J.J. Tomlin]

What happened in marriage?

[Grant]

I told you no.

[Kate Tomlin]

No date night every week. You want me to go crazy?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

No.

[Grant]

That's so much pressure.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Wait, why are in the same relationship?

[Kate Tomlin]

There's only so much pot in movies.

[Grant]

I know.

[Kate Tomlin]

Want to go to dinner again? Funny.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Not true.

[Grant]

We set the bar so high in dating.

[Kate Tomlin]

You set it high.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Like we have like the best ever.

[Kate Tomlin]

Those are my best.

[J.J. Tomlin]

He was also hopeless romantic like me.

[Kate Tomlin]

We use our best bullets.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

He's like, I got it.

[Kate Tomlin]

I'm all got nothing to do.

[J.J. Tomlin]

He's like, use the workout beginning and then anyway, anyway, so hope romantic. They hyper commit. They love. Love. They're the person wearing the rose colored glasses. So every single flag looks just like a flag. No, no red flags exist. Right. And they're the person that does need the don't settle. Like they need that advice. So we know hopeless romantics. The next type is the overthinker. Okay, Overthinker, they are very much back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, really analyzing everything. Now hopeless romantics can overthink a lot as well. But the overthinker, they're actually really critical. So the hopeless romantic is a little less critical. Okay. They're like, oh, I'm just like in love with this person and I can't see any bad things about them. The overthinker is going to be pretty critical when they see a red flag. They're going to be like, whoa, wait. And they're going to overthink it, Overthink it and maybe run away. So. But they're overanalyzing everything out here. We got a lot of overthinkers out there. Next one is a safety seeker. This is a person who just wants to be in a relationship and just doesn't want it to leave, you know, so they will get in, settle. They will settle for somebody that's okay and then they just are comfortable and they're like, even though they know they could probably do better. I don't want to start over again. I don't want to go through that. I Don't want to meet the parents again, then meet my parents. And this is good enough because they, underneath the surface, don't really believe maybe that they could get something better.

[Grant]

Wow.

[J.J. Tomlin]

The next type. Do you want to explain this one, jj?

[Grant]

Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

The Wanderer.

[Kate Tomlin]

Is this who you are?

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

So who are you, brother?

[Grant]

I'm the Wanderer. Okay.

[Kate Tomlin]

Good to meet you, brother.

[Grant]

Which is basically the worst one of all.

[Kate Tomlin]

Oh, no.

[Grant]

Because it's just hard to build healthy relationships. Relationship. They. I mean, you guys have these friends. I think the enneagram7 would probably be like the most similar. It's the Tigger energy bouncing in and out. You know, dating is a lot of fun. And then right at that, like, commitment mark, where you got to go into relationships.

[J.J. Tomlin]

They leave you on red.

[Kate Tomlin]

No.

[Grant]

Yeah, they do leave you on red. And I did, man. I kid you not. Like, for years, I was. I was a terrible. I was a good dater and I was terrible at relationship. I was so scared to commit. I was so scared of making the wrong decision. So that's a big fear for the Wanderer. They are so scared of making the. The wrong decision and tying themselves down just in case something better comes along. Right around the corner. That's called fobo. So Fear of a Better Option.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I've never heard that.

[Grant]

Oh, yeah. It was the first term before FOMO from the Harvard scientists who created fomo. FOBO was actually the original Fear of a Better Option. So it's like you're. Yes. Now we do this when we hang out with people. So, Grant, do you want to hang out Friday night?

[Kate Tomlin]

And you're like, would love to ask. I've been waiting on it for so long.

[Grant]

And this scenario, you're like, maybe you're like, I don't want to say yes because if I do, it's going to lock me down. In case a better yes comes around the corner and it's ascending and dating. I don't want to say yes and commit to this girl because a better one might be just around the corner.

[Kate Tomlin]

For so many people.

[Grant]

And that's probably the number one cancer of. Yeah, that I'm killing that. That is probably one of the number one cancers killing healthy relationship and dating. So there's a lot of wanderers. It's the least. It's a least identified one in our quiz, too. Because the Wanderer doesn't want to take it.

[J.J. Tomlin]

They're like, I don't need help. I'm loving my dating life.

[Grant]

Right.

[J.J. Tomlin]

So they are the least.

[Grant]

So they're like, out there having fun, having a great time, and they don't want you to ruin it.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Wow.

[Grant]

And that was me for sure. So wanderers. That's what I am. They have a really hard time committing.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Last type is intentional romantic. This is the, quote, walking green flag. This is the healthiest, but they still have some downfalls. While they're pretty healthy, they can have issues with pride. So they might think, like, they might hold somebody to such a high standard that it's almost too impossible to meet because they're pretty healthy that they're like, yeah, this is not gonna cut it. Your life, your healing, all this has to look very much like mine in order to accept your. You into my life. So they are, quote, the healthiest, but they do really struggle with pride.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

But they have that thing that, you know, kicked Satan out of heaven, so.

[Grant]

Amen. One little, like, actually. Exactly. All right, so what's your guys guess on what you guys are? And then we'll make you take it.

[Kate Tomlin]

Okay. Hopeless romantic.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

Or I could see wanderer a little bit in me.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Really? I was thinking hopeless romantic and maybe overthinker for me. Yeah, I can see it for those.

[Grant]

Okay. What do you think Maddie is?

[Kate Tomlin]

What was the last one?

[Grant]

Be careful.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah, A little bit of, like, be really careful. Yeah. She's the one that you said was the healthiest.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes.

[Kate Tomlin]

It was the intentional romantic.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes.

[Kate Tomlin]

With just the dagger. Sometimes righteousness.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Okay, I cannot.

[Kate Tomlin]

I say we take the test.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Should we take it?

[Kate Tomlin]

Let's take the test. We got to be brutally honest.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Whatever it lands on the next page is what you are.

[Kate Tomlin]

All right. This is exciting.

[Grant]

Are you.

[Kate Tomlin]

Are you there?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

No, I'm so far back.

[Kate Tomlin]

Wow.

[Grant]

Shock. Actually, it is.

[Kate Tomlin]

Well, I don't know.

[Grant]

It might be.

[Kate Tomlin]

I think I'm pretty great, but yeah.

[Grant]

All right, what's your guess for Grant? Because you guys knew each other.

[J.J. Tomlin]

We only met a few times before.

[Kate Tomlin]

Cross paths.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I feel like with a four, you're. You're hopeless romantic, but you could also be intentional. But that's a big, helpless romantic energy. Is enneagram.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

Just emotional.

[Grant]

And what's Maddie as her dating coach?

[J.J. Tomlin]

I feel like she could have been intentional. I don't think you're a wanderer, though.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wait, so it surprised you? Oh, no. That's exactly what I thought mine was.

[Grant]

Wow. Okay, are you guys ready?

[Kate Tomlin]

Okay. Okay, you guess.

[Grant]

Mine.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Mine is exactly what I thought it was gonna be.

[Kate Tomlin]

Is yours the intentional romantic?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yes, that's mine.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

We're both walking green flowers.

[Grant]

Let's Go.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Actually surprised because I answered real honest.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah, I like, I tried to be as honest as I could too.

[Grant]

Yeah. I think you're our first one ever. First? Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

People are the intent the same.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

No, seriously, I haven't met a couple yet.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Does that mean we are not compatible?

[Kate Tomlin]

Whatever you think that means for our dating life, we weren't that perfectly.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

No, no. Our dating life, there's no issues.

[Kate Tomlin]

For sure.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

We had lots of red flags in.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Our room or at least first few.

[Kate Tomlin]

Months were so hopeless.

[J.J. Tomlin]

That's why even though the intention is, like the, quote, healthiest like it, I think that's where I really want people to know there's still issues. There can be like, they use. There's still a work in progress.

[Grant]

Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Well, I would say you were talking about pride. I would say that was definitely our self righteousness on both ends. Yes. And probably more so you.

[Grant]

What?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. Do you remember?

[Kate Tomlin]

I do.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Grant]

This is great.

[Kate Tomlin]

I just wanted to know about the Bachelor. Just explain it to me.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

Like, I'm in a cabin in Branson, Missouri. Just help me out with the Bachelor.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So he thought he was holier.

[Kate Tomlin]

No, I did not. I just thought.

[Grant]

What were you doing in Branson?

[Kate Tomlin]

I was working at Kanakuk.

[Grant]

Oh, fun. Yeah. Okay. So you're working with the kids on reality tv.

[Kate Tomlin]

She's got like the pink puma jumpsuit on from the Bachelor, and I'm just like, hey, I'm all for it. Help me understand your.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I liked fashion.

[Grant]

So you were like, a little hunting for, like, what's going on here?

[Kate Tomlin]

Probably a little bit more like, this is the more Christian route, which was pride. Yes, but. But I still want to know, like, why'd you go on that show?

[Grant]

Yeah. So was that a red flag or did you welcome that?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So he broke up with me.

[Kate Tomlin]

Well.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I didn't.

[Grant]

I can't believe.

[Kate Tomlin]

Are we rolling right now? We better save all of this.

[Grant]

Okay. This is great.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

He dumped me because, you know, he.

[Kate Tomlin]

Thought I took a break. Sounds much more. What I remember.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Was that what you wanted?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You wanted to take a break?

[Kate Tomlin]

I needed a breather.

[Grant]

This is so good on a break.

[Kate Tomlin]

Okay.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

But not the same situation.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So, yeah. You break up with me because you're like, is she really about it or not? Three months, but.

[Grant]

Right. Three weeks.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Three weeks in.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

But I knew he was my husband. God had already spoken to me.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Wow.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So I wasn't too worried. But I was hurt. A little. Stung.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I don't think at that point I'd been proud.

[Grant]

What did it hurt? What? Did it hurt your pride?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, my heart.

[Grant]

So. But you broke up with her. Like, did you consider what was going on a red flag? Is that.

[Kate Tomlin]

I think it was fear. I think it was fear. Part of. Part of it was a fear of commitment. It was like, what if there's. Lord, is this. And I just pull back.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

Real quick story. I break up with her the day I'm supposed to meet her family that has flown into Dallas.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Oh, wow.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I am hosting. I'm hosting.

[J.J. Tomlin]

This is getting more interesting.

[Kate Tomlin]

Redeeming love.

[J.J. Tomlin]

The film. Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I remember hosting, like, the film at a movie theater. He's supposed to be coming to me.

[Kate Tomlin]

Like, microphone, before the movie. She's leading this room.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[J.J. Tomlin]

And you're like, oh, so you're not doing anything serious that day. You don't have to at all.

[Grant]

Perfect.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And this is when he.

[Grant]

Goodness gracious, man.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You guys know, you know, redeeming love, him watching this movie. This is going to change everything, right?

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes, of course.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So I invited him anyways. Even though she says, I still want.

[Kate Tomlin]

You to come, I have to come at this point.

[Grant]

So you break up with her. We're done. We're done. Oh, sorry, sorry.

[Kate Tomlin]

Break.

[Grant]

Take a break.

[Kate Tomlin]

Break.

[Grant]

Big difference.

[Kate Tomlin]

She says, I still want you to come. Now I'm not knowing at all. As I walk up to North Park Mall in Dallas, Texas, if her family.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Knows anything, they know everything. Spoken.

[Grant]

So I'm awkward.

[Kate Tomlin]

I'm meeting mom for the first time with the biggest, like, hi. And I'm not knowing. Do you know we're broken up?

[J.J. Tomlin]

Do you know what I just said to her hours ago?

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah, but she sees that.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

She knew. Oh, yeah, she knew.

[Grant]

Everyone's going.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I felt he was my husband.

[J.J. Tomlin]

So it was a weird, you know.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Tension moment of like, you just broke up with Dude.

[Grant]

That's so awesome.

[Kate Tomlin]

All that to say I'm meeting all her best friends. I've heard so much about you. I'm like, hey, good to meet you, dude. Jenny Allen. We know. Jenny Allen walks up. How are you and Maddie? I get just vulnerable moments with her. I'm, like, broken up. She's like, what? Pulls me in the, like, bathroom almost.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

No.

[Kate Tomlin]

And she's just like, you're coming over tonight with me and Zach. And then throws me out. And we're. I'm sitting here. We need to talk to you. Sitting in redeeming love next to her mom and sister as this man recklessly pursues his woman.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And I was like, unconditional love.

[Kate Tomlin]

I'm the Opposite of this man, that is.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I threw her away on a judgment.

[Kate Tomlin]

Guys, by that night at 2am we're holding hands. I don't even know if we ever talked about getting back together. We're back together forever.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

We were at a redeeming love, like reception after. And it went on till literally like midnight. And we just stayed in the car talking, like holding hands. And we were like, well, I guess we're back together.

[Grant]

Did the movie.

[Kate Tomlin]

Like, I. I don't know if it was the move. I don't know what it was.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Oh yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

Jenny might have just scared the.

[J.J. Tomlin]

She struck the fear of God.

[Kate Tomlin]

I'm like, I love her. I love her. We're back.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Did you still have to meet with her after that?

[Kate Tomlin]

The next day I went to her.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Oh, you did?

[Kate Tomlin]

And she just helped me work through some of my own probably self righteous pride. It was like, hey, I know her heart. So what are the questions you have her and Zach.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Zach called you out on your cross.

[Kate Tomlin]

Zach helped me a lot.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Grant]

The commitment thing.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Yeah. That's a big one. I mean, it's like sometimes it doesn't really matter who you're talking to or dating, especially in guys. It can be so scary to go from dating to relationship. Like it feels like it's not like stepping into like the shallow end and a step. It feels like you're like cliff jumping.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You know, especially as a Christian guy because you're like, I know this means like we're pursuing marriage.

[Grant]

Right. And that's unfortunate though, like in the sense of I wish it was a little bit less pressure. From the first date.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Grant]

To 90 days to getting into relationship. We can be intentional and not have this be like this crazy, super high stakes. That's good pressure cooker. And the red flags is a big part of that too. Not to come back to the subject, but a lot of times what we see is a ton of confusion on what red flags are versus deal breakers. So how do you handle a red flag versus a deal breaker? And what's the difference? Because sometimes as Christians, we expect this amazing, unrealistic, perfect thing. And the first sign of a red flag, we're out.

[Kate Tomlin]

You say you'll never join the Navy, that you'd never track storms brewing in the Atlantic and skydiving could never be part of your commute. You'd never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit or fly so fast you.

[Grant]

Break the sound barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy.

[Kate Tomlin]

Saying never actually is. Start your [e-mail]. america's Navy forged by the sea.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Okay, guys, I'm taking a short break from this podcast to tell you about some exciting news. My new book, Dare to be True. Stay true. Dare to be True. It just makes sense. When God laid this podcast on my heart, I actually had already started working on my next book, Dare to be True.

[J.J. Tomlin]

And.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And the whole point of this podcast and the whole point of this book is we were all designed and made for truth, and everyone in this world is searching for it. Yet so many of us are searching for the right things in all of the wrong places. And this book is all about tackling the lies that often entangle us and bind us and finding the truth that sets us free. And so in this book, we're going to be tackling all the things from sin and shame and the lies around eternity and the lies around your identity and the lies around your purpose and how to find the truth and live free. Because the reality is, it says in Proverbs 14:12 that there is a way that appears to be right, but in the end, it leads to death. There is a way that the world preaches that we should go, that we should follow, that we should conform to, that we should look like. And in the end, it leads to death. Yet what God's word says is Jesus says in John 14:6, I am the way, the truth, and the life. So he is saying, the truth you are looking for can only be found in me. I am the truth. And I'm not only the truth, I'm the truth that leads to life and life abundantly. And then it says in John 8:32, when you know the truth, it's the truth that will set you free. And so if you have ever felt bound by lies, if you have ever questioned your worth, your confidence, your purpose, if you've ever wondered how you can break free from feeling weighed down, exhausted, overwhelmed, or even insecure about who you truly are and what your purpose is on this earth, this book is for you. I have often said, I just want to be free. I have looked at my husband many of times and said, I just want to be free. I'm tired of feeling weighed down. I'm tired of feeling not enough. I'm tired of being on this endless cycle of striving and performing and never feeling like I can reach what I need to reach and be who I need to be. And when I go back to the truth, when I go back to who God is and who God says I am, that is when I experience true freedom. And so this book is for you and I am so excited. True crew for you to go and get your copy of Dare to be True. You can pre order it now. I will be including the link in this episode and so you can go and pre order it. It will be coming out this fall. I'm so, so excited and I can't wait. We're going to be doing some really fun series all about some of the content in this book. But you're going to want to get your hands on it because there's some really, really fun special pieces in this book that you can't get in this podcast. So you guys can go and pre order Dare to Be True now if you want to break free from what is breaking you. Well for I think it would be helpful too to hear yalls story just as we set the scene before we jump into a lot of fun relationship questions that we have on dating and red flags. But I'd love to hear how'd you. How'd you woo our Kate over here?

[Grant]

It's more like how I convinced Kate to say yes. Oh, man. It was an operation. It was an operation for sure. I like, you know, like the red yarn and everything. Like the bullet on the. On the wall. No, we met on Zoom in the middle of COVID So.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Did you really?

[Grant]

Oh, yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

And just remind me who set y' all up? What was that?

[Grant]

So it wasn't a setup in the sense of so funny. We were at a Galentine's conference on Zoom. Remember like during COVID that all the online conferences I had friends who ran a girls ministry college. Girls ministry called Delight Ministries.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Grant]

And they were like their Galentine's conference. So all the single girls let me get on perfect. They invite me on as a bachelor to do a blind date. Me and a couple other bachelors as like their icebreaker. And we actually took this from them because it's such a fun way to start conferences and events. Like we do live blind dates. So I was on one. I was a bachelor doing a lifeline date. I meet Kate on the pre call and from the second, I kid you not, from the second I saw her little like 4 by 6 pixels, I was like, like, like I was blown away.

[Kate Tomlin]

Had you known of her beforehand?

[Grant]

No, never heard of.

[Kate Tomlin]

Okay. First time?

[Grant]

Yeah, first time. And so we made it on the pre call. I was definitely interested and I can't really say the same about her. I go on a lifeline date, she doesn't watch a single second of it because I'm like, not really her type. Not really her thing. Like, I just basically talk.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I was about to talk, so I was like, I'm not watching.

[Grant]

I did not exist. You know, and so she watches me or doesn't watch me go. I watch her talk because they invited the guys to stay on after. And, like, I was, like, interested in her. So, like, I guess I'll stay, you know, all the other guys, peace style. So I took off. I took off my camera, like, changed my name to Emily. So I'm not like the one guy, you know, with like 500 girls really sitting there.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

He's confessing right now.

[Grant]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Kate Tomlin]

Just. Great name.

[Grant]

Yeah, yeah, Very, like, generic, you know?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Grant]

So I watch her and I kid you not, I was interested in her. I don't know how you operated. If I saw a beautiful woman, I hope that, like, their faith and character was there behind the scenes. But I would not ask them out off looks alone. I really wanted to have an idea of where their faith was before I even bothered to ask them out. So once I stayed on and did my homework, she actually gave a really light, encouraging talk on, like, self hatred, you know, pain and abuse. Wow. It was super deep, super raw. And I was. I kid you not, I was blown away by just what she had gone through and more importantly, everything in Christ that she had become today. Like, all the healing that she had gone through, I just had. I kid you not, I just had so much respect. I was just. That's really what sold me on her up front. I was like, this is a woman who is worth pursuing no matter what. So I reach out to my friends. They put in a good word for me. And of course, when they sent over my Instagram and Kate socks me, I'll let you take over.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Oh, guys. I was like, first of all, they tell him, they were like, you should probably change some of your photos or, like, take some of them down. And he was like, what did you say? You were like, no, if she doesn't like that, she won't like me. And so I go to his Instagram and stalk, you know, acceptably, because I didn't know who he was. And it was. Every photo was a different thing. It was different hairstyle, lots of dogs. Like, he. He was like Jack Sparrow in one photo. Another photo was like a big, big bushy mustache dyed jet black. There was a photo with him, a big bushy beard. Like, every different hairstyle. Of course, the current hairstyle, blue with the platinum underneath. I was like, who is this guy? Like, this is so weird. But What I did like about it was I could tell he didn't care what people thought. And that did draw me in because I have struggled in my life just performance and caring what people think. And so I liked and. And ultimately did kind of want to be with somebody who could help bring me out of that, you know, or that balance me in that way. And so that's what his profile screamed to me. So I was like, okay, I'll give him a date. Also, we should mention there's a six year age gap too. So that also wasn't going for him very well because you can't tell.

[Grant]

But she's older than me. Yeah, you can't tell. To clarify. Thank you, honey.

[J.J. Tomlin]

But I had never dated a guy that young before. You know, I was just like, no, guys in their mid-20s, like, that's that, you know, guys don't even mature fully till what, 28 or something. I don't remember.

[Grant]

We're still trying.

[Kate Tomlin]

It really does.

[Grant]

Yeah. Don't ask right now. We're still.

[Kate Tomlin]

It's up for 20s.

[Grant]

We're still on the come up.

[Kate Tomlin]

I don't think I'm fully.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

But one thing I will say in that season that I would preach to a lot of the different dating personality types types on that quiz is to date the unexpected, you know, because I think today we're so locked in on a very specific type. Yeah. We want them to look a certain way, we want them to read their bible a certain way. We want them to, you know, have the same kind of healing we have or, you know, go to therapy as much as we go to therapy. And I just is in the season of date the unexpected. And so age gap. He was a different location than me, you know, lived in Seattle and I was in LA at the time. So there were so many things. Plus the blue hair, the black earring, the weird style like I. Which was, you know, we did clean him up a little bit. You look great, babe.

[Kate Tomlin]

You look so good today.

[Grant]

Thank you.

[Kate Tomlin]

I'm the best I've seen you look.

[Grant]

Yeah. He was like shocked when I walked up here.

[Kate Tomlin]

I know you've been working out a lot.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

And I want you to know I see it.

[Grant]

Thank you, bro. I'm down 30. I see you. Hey, dad Bod. You know, I'm down. You don't fight it down 35 pounds.

[Kate Tomlin]

Come on now.

[J.J. Tomlin]

What I loved about that is his character just show shines. Like through all the weeks of getting to know him, he was definitely the unexpected. Because I really didn't Think I would be interested. And. But I will say, go on first dates, even if you think you're not going to be interested, make sure you don't go in with the mentality that this date is going to go nowhere. Like, I'm probably not going to like this person, because then you're going to be looking for the things that gives you an out. Right? So always approach every date with curiosity. Approach it with, oh, I'm just here to meet another amazing man or woman of God, and I want to just genuinely get to know this person and just honor the God image in them. Like, that's how I think we all should be dating. Especially in the beginning when we shouldn't put so much pressure on it, but instead we're going into it with, like, our massive checklist and judging people left and right. Like, oh, you said this. Okay, no, no, that's not gonna. That's not gonna work. Right? And I'm like, well, even if in the first 10 minutes, 15, 20 minutes of a date, you find out that this is probably not gonna be your person, like, still try to see this as an opportunity that it's not wasted, but an amazing opportunity to just get to know someone who's totally different than you. And that's what I think we've lost in dating, is just appreciating the art of getting to know someone completely different from us.

[Kate Tomlin]

That's really cool.

[Grant]

Cool.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's so.

[Kate Tomlin]

That's amazing. So you guys go on the first date?

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

And it went well.

[Grant]

FaceTime. FaceTime dates in the beginning.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yes.

[Grant]

Yeah. I like you. I kid you not. Like we talked about in the beginning, I think when a man sees a woman worth pursuing, that they're really ignited for. They go all out. So I went as all out as I could, you know, and first date, she walked away. And I think she was pretty surprised. No, I kidding you. Not. Like, she was very surprised.

[Kate Tomlin]

In a good way.

[Grant]

In the best way. Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes.

[Grant]

Yeah. And then we went on another FaceTime. A date. Another FaceTime date. And what's funny was the first three months of getting to know each other, I was so excited and pumped. I had to tell my heart, hey, take this one date at a time. God's got this. And what's funny is she was preaching the same thing to herself. Hey, take this one date at a time. And God's got this. Because she wasn't as excited. Like, her heart had to really come around as something healthy that she really appreciated and enjoyed. And so it was the same Truth, just in different ways. And so. And then she fell in love with me. And, you know, I moved down to Orange County. I know. No, no, no. But it was a really, really fun dating experience. We did long distance. I moved down to Orange county, had a new job lined up there. Anyway, so, like, God really aligned my journey to even come down to Southern California and pursue her. And then a year later, we were engaged, so.

[Kate Tomlin]

Wow.

[Grant]

Yeah, man.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's incredible, because. And I love that story, too, because I feel like it's. You have those stories where you hear. You know, it's not necessarily all sparks and perfect and amazing right. At the beginning, because I think we can often be like, if that's not there, I'm not interested exactly. Like, this is not my person. But you guys are saying, like, take. Take the chance. Go on the dates, like, hear them out, listen and ask God. And. And, yeah, I think that's so important because we can be so quick to judge.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Oh, for sure.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And so quick to just cut off and be like, no, no, I'm. I'm not even gonna go there.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I think sometimes a slow burn is better. Like, not that it can't work with, like, a big spark at the beginning and that big flame, but I think sometimes for a lot of those dating personality types, like we're talking about earlier, a lot of times, like, the hopeless romantic, they need a slow burn because they're so addicted to the spark that they're often going to overlook things. Right? So. So, like, that person really needs that slow burn. The wanderer, they need a slow burn, too, because they're so addicted to, like, that fun energy. Right. And so for some of the dating personality, it's just, like, it's. It can be super healthy for it to not start out this whole crazy. I feel so amazing. I just, like, obsessed with you. And for it to be like, okay, like, I'm interested, but maybe not. Sure. Yeah. You know, and then through time, as you give it time, if you give it time, if you're willing to see that person through time, you can really see, like, wow, there was so much gold here that I was almost willing to overlook.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Based on judgments.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Kate Tomlin]

And, like, the Lord's intentional to give y' all that story because y' all are helping so many people in dating. And, like, it gives a lot of people hope because if y' all had the story that you met each other and it was instant fireworks, I don't think yalls power, yalls like punch, would y' all have a more powerful Punch, because you show what way more couples deal with than the, like, instant fire. So I think that's really powerful and intentional by the Lord. I want to get into, like, this topic is so prevalent. Probably the most asked topic that you get, I'm sure. What was it like to just come in to kind of what Kate was already doing of being a dating coach? That feels like a lot of pressure to me. And like, as you kind of step into that, how have y'.

[Grant]

All.

[Kate Tomlin]

Number one, how have y' all stepped into that together? I think it's really cool that y' all do it together. Number two, give me the lay of the land on dating right now before we kind of get into intentional questions about it right now. 20, 25. What are y' all seeing that can maybe help people that are going, what's. What's the trends right now?

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah, so good. Do you want to talk about joining hard of dating or what? It was like dating a dating coach really quick.

[Grant]

Yeah, Dating a dating coach.

[Kate Tomlin]

That was. I would be shaking.

[Grant]

I mean, honestly, you have to, like, put it out of sight, out of mind. Like, I'm sure when you met Maddie, like, you just kind of have to put those things out of sight, out of mind, and the second you start talking to them, they're just a girl.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, yeah.

[Grant]

You know, I mean, she had a book, you know, with all of her dating journey, all of her exes, you know, all these stories, and it was just like.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Just came out, like the week that we met, it came out, I believe, right? Yeah.

[Grant]

So I was so much more concerned and curious about just getting to know her than any other part of her life that had to deal with her book, dating coach, whatever. Because at the end of the day, she's just a human being, you know, with feelings and emotions, just a few of them, you know, and now I was just so captivated by Kate. I was just. I was much more curious about her, you know, off camera, behind the scenes and just who she was, like that authentic person. And then the. The dating coach thing, to be honest, it was kind of out of sight, out of mind. Like, I didn't really care, you know, she was dating like one or two other guys at the time in the sense of we do something called like the friendship challenge or dating challenge, where for 90 days you can date one to three people, you know, and you're just non exclusive. And it's a really healthy personalities. Right.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I never.

[Kate Tomlin]

I missed this trend. Yeah, I know. Is this 2018?

[Grant]

What are we talking? This is from Dr.

[Kate Tomlin]

Cloud, you know, DC came out with this.

[Grant]

The big dog. Yeah, he actually says dude for six months.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah, it was like, spoke to me the beginning of 2021. He's like, you need to do my dating challenge, like based on your history. And I was like, okay, I'll try it. But I was like, I'm only doing it for three months. Like I can't do a six months of thing. But for me, because I'm a hopeless romantic, like I would jump in so fast and commit so quickly, often to the wrong person. So for me, it was a really healthy challenge to, hey, let me just see how someone is over 90 days and really see like this, the character. And don't fast forward, like, don't go on these like six hour long dates, you know, I. So I was really strict with boundaries, like physical stuff. Like everything was very strict so that I could really just measure through time if I really was interested in that person. And honestly, it was so good because the first month I met a guy and I was just like, you know, privately in my mind, kind of head over heels for this guy. This is a month before JJ came along and. But two months into talking to this guy, I. It was so clear that he was not emotionally available because he had been divorced and he just was not ready yet. And in my old world, I would have just hyper fixated and committed to this guy, maybe even got into a relationship with him, with this person who really wasn't ready. So it just was so great to see how healthy that was for me.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

But yeah, really cool.

[Grant]

So she was dating one or two other guys and you know, that kind of friendship dating challenge. So that I, for me, I was like, you know, that was new for me too, by the way. Just like you. I was like, wait, what? But she told me after the first day, like, hey, I just want to be super transparent. Like I am talking and dating to other guys and I appreciated that so much. And more importantly, I was like, like, at the end of the day, I don't really care if there's three or five or a hundred. Like if this is who God has for me and for her, then bring them on. You know, Like, I don't really care. I don't really care what she does. There you go. So at that point I, like, I just didn't care, you know, I didn't really think about at least vocationally doing like the ministry together in that sense. Like, that wasn't the top of my mind. I wasn't trying to think about Us being married together, at least in the beginning, and as we got to know each other more in relationship and then engagement, it was a serious question. And then the day we got married, I quit my job and we started doing it together full time, which I would definitely not recommend, like going straight into your first year of marriage and working together with your spouse, like full time and doing everything. We're in like a small 700 square foot apartment with two dogs in California. It was just like, wow, this, you know, golden doodle and burning.

[J.J. Tomlin]

That was not a great season of our life anyway, together.

[Grant]

But that aside, doing ministry together is so sharpening. I love it. I specifically, I like, I have such a burden. Like, my heart breaks for single men, like 20 to 40 years old who are just so stuck, like purposeless, addicted to anything and everything and just kind of floating through life. So I love what we do together because I specifically get to speak to men and challenge men, which is definitely one of the big things affecting the. The 2025 dating scene.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah, let's talk about quick dating scene. I would say biggest trends would be a. Amongst amidst women. You know, the idea that there's no good Christian guys left. And statistically there's like, like a little bit of truth to that. There. There's no. It's not actually true. Okay. It's not actually true that there's no Christian guys left. That's like impossible. There are billions of people in the world, right? But statistically, there are less Christian men in the church right now and less Christian single men in the church right now than there are women. So I do have to acknowledge that fact. For women who are saying, like, where are all the guys in my church? That is a trend at the moment, which our heart breaks for. And JJ really, really loves speaking to those single men and getting them back into church communities. But at the same time, I like to say to the women, like, if that. If you're only focusing on that, then it will never become better, right? If you're focused on lack, you'll only see lack. And for these women, I'm like, hey, complaining about it will never do good. What we need to do is we need to encourage and we need to pray for these men. That's what we need to do. Because no one ever came back to change or started changing because you criticize them into change. Nobody ever wanted to be different because you shamed them into that or complained them into it. They do it because they've been prayed for and they've been encouraged into it. Right? And so I think there is a big issue amidst women right now, especially as they get older and older, of, like, let's just complain about how men suffer so badly. And I just have such a heart to say, don't do that. Yeah. Don't eat. Don't do it in front of him. But also, don't do it behind closed doors, because you're just perpetuating this environment of making them not come. Like, come to church, making them not rise up and pursue you. So I would say that's a huge trend in dating right now. What about you, jj?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's really good.

[Grant]

Oh, man. I mean, you know, we're more single than ever before in the church and in the US and in the world. Like, the majority of US adults are single, and then about 30 to 40% of the church is single now, which is crazy. Like, the church has never been as single as it is today. So it's, like, a huge challenge. I'd say the second issue. I don't know. There's a lot I. I obsess over this. I think the. The second biggest one is probably. I think we're pickier than ever before. Yeah. And I think that culturally, like, marriage has just been less appealing than it ever has been before. I'd say those are probably, like, the second and third reasons we're pickier than ever before on both sides. And culturally, it's just kind of, like, blended into the church. Like, marriage just does not have a ton to offer. In some ways, I would love for.

[Kate Tomlin]

Y' all to talk about the pickier than ever, because I think that's really big. What is picky versus what is intentional? What is. What is. You know, that's shallow versus this really matters. Because there were things in Maddie that really mattered to me, and other people would say, hey, what about her? And just to be honest, something in my heart did not get excited.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

They were godly. They were in the church, but so I was. So I think people wrestle with. Is this an ungodly desire? Is this. Okay, talk to us about kind of the difference between picky and this is intentional.

[Grant]

Yeah. Well, do you guys believe in the one?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

No.

[Grant]

Okay. Do you?

[Kate Tomlin]

No, I don't.

[Grant]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I believe in God's best, which might be another way of kind of saying that.

[Grant]

Yeah. Well, unpack that. Because I. I go back and forth like God's omnipotent.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Meaning he knows who you're gonna marry. Yeah. But what is. Like, how would you define God's best versus the one?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I think all of our answers are going to be based off of our experiences. And so for me, I dated someone for four years who was an incredible guy, loved God. But at the end of the day, right when it was time for us to make that decision of are we going to get married or are we gonna end this relationship? We just, like, I just didn't have peace about it and felt like our specific callings just didn't fully align.

[J.J. Tomlin]

That's big.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And so for me, it was a matter of peace and purpose. I was just like, I don't have full peace, and I don't feel like our purpose fully aligns. But all the other things, the convictions are there, the values are there, the interest, the compatibility is there. So it was just a matter of, like, the peace. So that's where I kind of am, like, I could have made that work. We could have gotten married. And I do think God would have. That Would have. Would have been all I knew. But then I'm like, okay, I didn't feel in my heart, full peace. And I just kept being like, I don't feel full peace. And then now and being married to Grant, like, as soon as I met him, it was like I had so much peace. And even through walking through really, really hard things, it was like, I have so much peace, and I feel like our purpose aligns and. And now I'm being married, I'm like, oh, praise God. Hey, friends, stop what you're doing, because this is important. I want to tell you guys about a skincare brand that I love called Neeme Skincare. Their new tallow line just launched and sold out in under three hours. But good news is it's finally back in stock for now. Now, about this tallow line. It's made with one of the most nourishing ingredients that you can put on your skin. Tallow is rich in vitamins A, D, E, and K and closely mirrors the natural makeup of our skin, helping hydrate, repair, protect. Neeme offers two products in this line. Sunshine Tallow Cream, a whipped lightweight moisturizer for daily use, and Buzzing Tallow Balm, a rich balm that deeply hydrates, perfect for nighttime or dry spots. If you're ready to support a brand that aligns with your faith and blesses your skin in the process, go to nemi skincare.com that's N I M I skincare.com use the code maddie10 for 10% off your order. Again, that's maddie10 for 10 [e-mail] With Neemi, you're not just caring for your skin. You're choosing truth, beauty and purpose.

[J.J. Tomlin]

The purpose is a huge part. Like, I think a lot of people don't understand, you know, Riley and Jack, at their wedding, friends of ours, I love that one of them said this in their vows. They said one plus one equals three, which is the idea that together you're greater for the kingdom than apart. And I do think that that's a very big lost, not just art, but like perspective when it comes to dating, Christian dating, because it needs to be one plus one equals three.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Like purpose needs to be aligned. Not that saying they have to be the exact same, you know, but they have to compliment in some regards. Like jj, I didn't, when we were dating, I didn't see or ask him to be a part of heart of Dating. I wasn't like, hey, if you're going to be with me, you have to be a part of this. But I love that his heart was like, I love Christian single men and I can come alongside and support you. And eventually that became him being a part of it. But it wasn't like this non negotiable that he had to join it. But his heart was like four singles as well. And he could totally see coming alongside of me in this mission, even if it was behind the scenes. And I think just having that purpose aligned is just such a big deal. And we don't often look at that anyway. That's a segway that I think is just important.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, picky versus intentional I think is huge because I think so often we can be unrealistic in our expectations. But then, but then it's like high standards. There's just a difference. It's like, how do you know what's like high godly standards? Like, this is what God has called me to. Therefore I should not settle for less.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

But then also what is unrealistic and worldly? Like, what has just become a worldly expectation that if I'm being really, really honest, like this is not necessarily like what the Bible is saying. I'm just, you know, saying it's. I'm waiting for the one in God's best, but really it's just a worldly expectation.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I think the biggest one there is attraction. I think we hyper fixate, fixate on attraction. And that's where the standards get really messy. That's where picky comes into play, I think the most with attraction. Because actually JJ and I have like a little bit maybe of a controversial view on this, this and maybe it's also to do a big part of our story because I wasn't that physically into him at first. Not that I thought he was unattractive people. And sometimes the Internet thinks I'm saying that he's ugly. I've never said that.

[Grant]

I'm just an ugly duck, you know, so.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Nothing. He's not ugly. Obviously. We can see that, right? It's like, okay. But for me, I was really hung up on. I guess let's use the Millennial. Or not. No Gen Z term of the ick. Okay. I kind of had the ick, if we're being honest, with the hair, the style. It was just not my vibe. Okay?

[Grant]

This is new to me.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And.

[J.J. Tomlin]

On our first in person date, we went to In N Out. And the way he ate his burger and licked his fingers like, you guys, I just had the agent.

[Kate Tomlin]

He hadn't eaten all day.

[Grant]

That is so out of context. This is my first time having in and out. Yeah. And look, of course you didn't know.

[Kate Tomlin]

How to eat it.

[Grant]

There's not a nice way to eat it.

[Kate Tomlin]

They forgot napkins, right?

[Grant]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[J.J. Tomlin]

No, no, they did not.

[Grant]

And look, there's not a. I don't. I'm not going to eat it with a. You know, he's over here.

[Kate Tomlin]

Like, probably more of a red.

[Grant]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kate Tomlin]

Pulled the knife out.

[Grant]

Anyway. Anyway, it was not my. Okay.

[J.J. Tomlin]

He got our trash and went to go to the trash can and it was full. Okay. So that he was being a nice Samaritan, but he opened it and then uses his other hand to, like, shove the trash in. Right.

[Grant]

Being a good guy. Right.

[J.J. Tomlin]

But then it's. The best part is that he didn't wash his hands or use hand sanitizer or anything. And literally, in my mind, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I want a gag. You know? Thankfully, we weren't, like, holding hands. He didn't, like, really try to touch me.

[Kate Tomlin]

He didn't go in for the hair tuck after that.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

He's like, hey, girl.

[J.J. Tomlin]

And so I. But I was like, okay, so I was being superficial. And I love calling myself out about this because I think that so many people do. Like, it's easier than ever. We're on a dating app, making an instant decision based on that first photo that we see, right? And it's like, okay, the girls love this one. But it's a. If it's a fish pick, they're like, oh, gosh, I can't do it. Swipe left. Right? Is that a thing?

[Kate Tomlin]

Oh, yeah, The Fish pick is a no go.

[J.J. Tomlin]

It's like fish pics. They're like, why? And I always want to tell the ladies, like, you have to understand a fish picture or a picture with the guy with his deer, whatever is his only good photo because that's the only photo that is him smiling.

[Kate Tomlin]

He's got one out of 10 per year.

[Grant]

We never asked our buddies to take a photo of us.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Something, you know, but it's so easy to just judge very quickly on physicality. Okay. Height is a big one. You know, weight, ethnicity. We just, I think we really get hyper fixated on, like the specific quote type. And when we're really honest, sometimes the type isn't really about character like it should be. It's much more about physically. Am I, like, into them on at the first moment it. And where our controversial, where our controversial view comes into play is we, we use attraction on a scale of, like, ranking privately. Okay. Somebody on a scale from zero to five in five different buckets. Okay. And it's not just physical. It's emotional, it's spiritual, it's intellectual, it's personality. And then it's physical because attraction is multifaceted. It's all those different areas. And so when you rank all those areas, you want at least 17 out of 25. Okay. If all of them are from zero to five, you want at least 17 out of 25. Okay. And you want physical to be at least three out of five. All right. At least three out of five. If it's two out of five, it's probably not ever going to work because you're gonna not want to kiss them at the end of the day.

[Grant]

Wow.

[J.J. Tomlin]

But if you have three out of five and the other areas are pretty strong, like, you absolutely can make that work.

[Grant]

Great.

[J.J. Tomlin]

So what we say that is, is a moderate level of physical attraction. You can make a moderate level of physical attraction work. If your other buckets of attraction, especially spiritual, especially emotional, are very strong.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah. 100.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Then you can make it work.

[Kate Tomlin]

It's why you see those couples that have been. Been together for 40 years say, I'm more attracted to her than I've ever been.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes.

[Kate Tomlin]

Because you're. You've bonded to so much more.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

Than her looks.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

And that's so true.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Well, in marriage, we can agree it's like, that's just such a small, small portion of. Of what matters.

[Kate Tomlin]

It gets less important when the baby comes and you're sick. It's like.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And isn't it crazy that in dating it's such like, the biggest thing. And then you get married and it's like, no, I want to know. Like, are you thinking about me throughout the day? How are you serving me? How am I serving you? Like, how. How do we. Are we suffering well together? Are we, like, living our life in a way that actually matters and creating significance?

[Grant]

Right, but the. So here's the big thing, though, because jp, I love his dating advice. Find the godliest person.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

No, I disagree with this, though.

[Grant]

Days I've been married, I told him, I disagree. We disagree, too.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes.

[Grant]

Take it to the man on our. No, I love J.P. so, no, but I. Look, it's great advice. This is great advice, too. But the big question is, how do we actually, though, get it to be received and instilled into someone who's single and says, oh, yeah, that's nice. But then we go out and operate like we never heard it. Yeah, right. So, like, that's what we're kind of obsessed with is, like, how can we actually get this message through that. The physical attraction thing, it's important, but it's not the most important. And what we've definitely found is by, you know, that zero to five scale is actually really helpful because instead we, especially as guys, we kind of default to, like, 0 or 1. It's like very binary, for sure, you know, and then we go from there, hoping that the character, hoping that emotionally, like, we hope that all these other things are in place. 0 to 5 gives so much more flexibility, that moderate attraction is more than good enough. Like, that's what all the brain science says. Moderate attraction is more than good enough. And then my favorite thing about attraction, though, is this. I. I still remember dating, quote, the most beautiful girls I've dated. Kate's obviously the most beautiful.

[Kate Tomlin]

There you go.

[Grant]

But for some of them, like, you date, and then after a month of getting to know them, it was so crazy to me that when their character came out, you know, spiritually, emotionally, I did not want to even be in the same room. I was so physically unattracted to someone who I was so obsessed with a month ago. And the opposite was true. I. My favorite, you know, attraction, at least in the sense of what I really admire and love for men is think about that girl when you walked in the room who maybe you weren't like, the most obsessed with fantasizing about checking her Instagram after, like, you know, so gung hung for. But guess what? A year later, you're like, all of a sudden, oh, wow. Like, she is really beautiful. Like, she is so selfless yeah. She is so kind. And all of a sudden you physically are way more attracted to her than ever before. And that's the kind of attraction that we want people to build over time. Right. Three months. We say this spiritual character shines over time. Three months, you really get to see someone's character start to shine and come through those cracks emotionally and spiritually. And that's what I want people to be attracted of. Like, I want you to be attracted to their godliness. So good to the Jesus in them. And I like. That's what excited me about kids, was the Jesus image in her and that spiritual attraction. If it's 4 and 5, I think a lot of the. The rest can follow. We don't often give love a chance to grow in that sense. But you guys know that in marriage too, you know, it's like the physical attraction comes and goes. I was most physically attracted, I kid you not, to Kate after childbirth. You know, like honeymoon, first year of marriage after childbirth.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Ugliest.

[Grant]

Yeah. She felt her ugliness.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I'm just out here in a diaper.

[Grant]

I was changing two sets of diapers. Kids in our baby. I kid you not. I was more physically attracted to my wife after that.

[Kate Tomlin]

Godly.

[Grant]

It's God's way she put her body on the line. Sacrifice her. The motherly image, her spirit. I was just head. And I still am, but that I was more physically attracted to Kate at that time, now after everything, than ever before. And that's really through that journey of just seeing. Just seeing their spirit, seeing their heart, seeing their godliness. Man, that is what lights me up as a man. Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

So let's say they're taking. They're. The listener is in the 3 to 5.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

3, 4, 5. Attractiveness. What are some other things? Give me like the godly biblical to the Christian that's going, what am I looking for? What's a necessity versus what's like, I just need to drop.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. What should I be looking.

[Kate Tomlin]

What am I looking for?

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah, you wanna.

[Grant]

I'm curious. I'm like, I want to hear your number. I want to hear your guys's number one, too. Because the opposite of these is a red flag. Right. So your number one green flag. You know, best thing is if they have the opposite of that.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Right, right.

[Grant]

Then it's like a runaway. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I think no matter what, I think the prerequisite for every person, I think, should be teachability. This should be the number one thing you look for in any person. It leads to humility. And it leads to being willing to change and get help and grow. Right? Because you need that. Oh, my goodness. Once you're in relationship and once you get married, like. Like, you guys know, it's sanctifying, and you realize, man, like, I led this awesome life solo, and now I'm having to combine that, and it's revealing so much about myself that is painful. And so many of these things that I just really need help with. And if you don't have a teachable spirit, which really looks like, am I learning and growing in my life currently, do I have people that speak into my life and keep me accountable? I think, like, a second tertiary thing to teachability is, are. Do you have a mentor or godly people that speak into your life? Like, really godly people? I'm not just talking about, like, fun friends, like, you might have some fun church friends. I'm really talking about those people that know you and know where you're messing up. You know, in my singleness, I had a girl that every single week we started this little discipleship just between her and I. And one of the things we did weekly was confession, and we kept each other accountable each and every week. And, you know, when I didn't bring things up, she'd be like, hey, you haven't brought this up for a while. Like, what's going on in this area? And I'd be like, dang it.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Those are the friends we need right there, you know?

[J.J. Tomlin]

And that's what I would look for in somebody. Teachability. And within that, do they have a level of accountability and people that have authority, Godly authority, to speak into their life? I would. I mean, there is a lot of lack of that, you guys.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Oh, absolutely.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Like, huge lack of. Of just people having fun church friends. But that's not enough. It needs to be people that have some sort of authority in your life that can speak into your life.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, that's really good, man. I. I love that. I think that's one. One of the biggest questions that it's like, how do you know what to look for? And I think that keeps you from settling. And I also think that that gives you a good mindset to not over fixate on the wrong things and to create all these unhealthy, healthy expectations and standards. Because, yeah, I think for me, it was just like a spirit of conviction. Like, of course, like a man of conviction who follows Jesus, but also just like a man who is convicted over, like, little things, like, if he, you know, I don't know, like, how he's talking to, like, the waitress or, you know, it's just like, how does he treat the people around him? What really, really matters to him? Like, what gets him passionate? What is he passionate about? And so I think that I've seen grow even more in our marriage is just like, he's so sensitive to the Holy spirit and just like, very convicted over even things that other people might would say is like, oh, it's not that big of a deal. And it's like, no, this matters. Like, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna treat this with the right respect. And so I. I would say that's huge. I'd love to move into, like, some. Now talking about red flags and what are the things that. That, like, what would you guys say are things that you should look out for that would hinder you in the right kind of relationship or some toxic tendencies that could keep you stuck in the wrong relationship?

[Grant]

Do you want to explain red flags versus deal breakers? Because red flags is definitely probably the most misunderstood thing, as common as it.

[Kate Tomlin]

Is, because to me, red is like rice. That feels like it's helpful to hear. Deal breaker is a different category.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, yeah.

[Grant]

But the problem is this. We all have red flags.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Because you're a human being.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah, that's good.

[Grant]

Right?

[Kate Tomlin]

Say that again.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So you would say yellow flags.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah. What is.

[Grant]

Yeah, if we can get.

[Kate Tomlin]

That orange flag.

[Grant]

Give me an example of like three months at the altar.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes. So, well, red flag. We actually say it's a stop sign. It's a stop sign to like the color red to find out more information.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, that's good.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I wouldn't say it's a U turn. Okay. U turn is run, forest, run. Like, let me just turn around.

[Grant]

That's a deal breaker for me.

[J.J. Tomlin]

That's a deal breaker. And that's like, they're not a Christian. They don't want kids, and you want kids. They're a smoker and you're a non smoker. Okay. They have an addiction in their life.

[Grant]

Habitual sin's a big one. Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah, I'd love to talk about that.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

Habitual sin, unrepentant versus repentant.

[Grant]

Right.

[Kate Tomlin]

Confessing versus hiding.

[Grant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

That even is some stuff like, hey, my boyfriend is struggling with porn. Is this a U turn? Or he's really repentant and he has a mentor. You know, even that is the nitty gritty stuff. That's.

[Grant]

And it's. And that needs to be talked about. Like, we can even jump into the porn one because it's so prevalent.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Right. Porn. Porn and masturbation. I mean, they go hand in hand. That heart of why they want to stop, first of all. Do they want to stop?

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Like, did you have to bring this up. Up or did they bring up.

[Kate Tomlin]

Did you catch? Yeah, all that.

[Grant]

Right. You know, that's a really important moment.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Totally.

[Grant]

And then two, like their heart, you know, like one of my favorite verses. Godly repentance leads to sorrow, but worldly repentance leads to sin. It's one of the most important verses in the fundamentals of our Christian faith. How we repent and why godly sorrow means you understand why this is sin, how it impacts other people and yourself. And your motivation to change is to appease and glorify God.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Worldly sorrow is anything other than that. I want to keep this relationship. I want to have a good image so people don't think poorly in me. I want to control this so, you know, I can have self control and feel good about myself. So in dating, if there's like that habitual sin, whether it's, you know, pornography, you know, drinking, substance abuse. I would even say gambling. Like that's a really common one with game with. With guys these days. There's not a lot of.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I would say is gaming.

[Grant]

Yeah. There's not a lot of clear scriptures. Right. So we have to pull out scripture and extend it. And I, you know, when we have slaves over us other than Christ, that is a territory that you just. There's no tolerance. Yeah. Like, we have to love holiness more than we have to love casualness, you know, and that for me, that was a huge part of my story. Every corner of my life needs to have the same degree of holiness to glorify God. And the second I left one little corner untouched, I think that for me was a stronghold of. Of sin and pride to just kind of abide and flow. So, you know, for the porn one, I would just say, look like if they are wanting to do it for the right reasons, like to heal and grow, we all know what that godly repentance looks like, you know, and then they actively go out and then just wait and see. That's the one thing that we hate is we just have to wait and see. Do their actions.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Align with their words? And that's a huge red flag deal breaker in general. Do their actions align with their words? Meaning like this. Put their words on mute over three months and just look at the actions. Right.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So true.

[Grant]

Show me their Friday night.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Grant]

Show me their Saturday Night. Those are the actions I really want to look at, you know, and that's where you get into that kind of like, deal breaker, red flag. But red flag for sure. I mean, Kate loves using this example. I think it's so good. If you're getting married and it's been six months, a year, and I asked you, hey, what red flags do they have? And you look at me and you say, none. They're just amazing. I'm telling you, do not get married because you have like no idea what you're signing up for. Like, they are a human being. I promise you they're not perfect. And you're going to find out real soon. And when you go into marriage with that kind of unrealistic expectation, you don't really know them. And that's okay in the sense of. I think you should know what your red flags are. Yeah, right. Going into singleness, going into what are you working on? Right.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Because that's going to be a red flag. Right. So the red flag is a stop sign. It's like a pause and find out more information. That's how we define it. Everyone defines it different. Different than a deal breaker.

[Kate Tomlin]

And then find out more information. Is that a go back to my girls or my guys or is that a hey, I see this in you.

[Grant]

Both.

[J.J. Tomlin]

It's. It's both. But it is addressing it to that person.

[Kate Tomlin]

Addressing it to that person.

[J.J. Tomlin]

So you're going to get curious. You have to do it with a non judgmental spirit.

[Grant]

Because.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Because there's a very big reality that maybe you don't know all the information and maybe they said something or you're noticing something, but you could be misreading it. You know, a lot of the stories we make up in our minds are not fully true. Right. They're like 80% false. And so we have to go in with that curiosity mindset and asking questions without judgment because if we set them up for failure, they're going to fail. Like if we go in judging them, they're going to feel judged, they're going to be defensive, they're going to like, like probably respond poorly. So you want to get really kind and curious about it. So that's the first step with the red flag. A second step is you watch how they respond. That tells you so much. Okay. Like if they are immediately on the defense and they are like, I don't. What are you talking about? Like, that's. I don't have that problem that this is. That is your deal breaker. That is like, obviously, okay, they don't even recognize this is an issue. And that's a big problem.

[Grant]

Yeah, they minimize, they blame, they do, they deflect. Yeah. Because you guys know this, that what she just described is marriage.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right.

[Grant]

Times a million for the rest of your life. And think about, I, I kid you not, I could not think of a more miserable marriage than someone who's so arrogant and so prideful to admit that they're never wrong or can't admit that they're wrong and can't grow and change. So your dating journey, the number one thing you should look for is how they handle feedback in the moment. Right. Do they take ownership and then the actions that follow? Because that is like your life on loop for the rest of your life. Right. So that's the teachability, the humility. And then versus the red flag. I would say it's probably deal breaker. You know, pride and arrogance. Like you were talking about something that God doesn't just oppose, but he hates. He hates pride totally. And is the destroyer of relationship between us and God, us and other humans.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And would you guys say, like, if you saw. Saw a red flag, if you're dating, you see a red flag in jj, would you have the conversation bring it up and then give grace in that moment and then watch the actions that follow?

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Is that the process that you would encourage?

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes. So step one, get curious with non judgment and ask them kind questions about it. It's really important how you approach it. Step two is watch how they respond, you know, because there is an opportunity that they're like, this is something that I know I have an issue with and I'm actively working on it.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

And thank you for calling it out because this is an issue that I have.

[Kate Tomlin]

We had such a big red flag in me early on with shutting down and spiraling and like, and she called it out and it was my opportunity to go, I'm really struggling with this right now.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes.

[Kate Tomlin]

And I don't like it about myself, but I know it about myself.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And honestly, his humility in that moment drew me closer.

[Kate Tomlin]

It's like, you can work with.

[J.J. Tomlin]

That's it.

[Kate Tomlin]

You can work with that.

[Grant]

You can work with that for the rest of your life.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Like, had he responded and been like, who are you to call me out? I see this and like, all these things.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Exactly.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That would have been like, whoa, whoa. I'm trying to help you help us, you know, because I see God's hand on your life and he's done the same for me. And so I think that's so Huge. Okay, we're wrapping up. I have a few, like, quick questions that people are curious about and so we'll do quick answers.

[Kate Tomlin]

Where are you at? Are you in Red flag questions I or are you lower?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I'm. No, I'm above. I feel like we hit on. We did get red flags. Okay. Can the girl make the first move or do guys like the ability to pursue and is that what's most important?

[J.J. Tomlin]

Okay. Girls can show interest, but I don't believe in girls asking a guy out. But I do believe they need to drop the hanky. Guys are oblivious. They don't know you're interested. You can smile all day long at them and they have no idea. 80% of guys are just waiting for a big open door. 80% of guys, that's true. So you need to show them very clearly you're interested. My favorite way to do it is send a birdie, AKA a wing woman. Okay. You have a wing woman go over to the guy, drop some pins. Drop pins and basically tell him like, you know, I feel like you guys could totally hit it off on a date and I know that she would say yes if you asked her out. And if your wing woman does that, he will be like, oh, the door is open. Like, this is like an opportunity.

[Kate Tomlin]

It clicks for us at that point.

[Grant]

I mean, seriously, guys interested? He will.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah, follow up on that. Now, what's a, what's a bad. What's the opposite? Like, that feels very healthy to me.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yeah.

[Kate Tomlin]

What's something of trying to get his attention that you would say, hey, I wouldn't do that.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Well, straight up, I wouldn't ever ask a guy out. I just wouldn't, I wouldn't do that. I do believe in the old fashioned. Men are meant to pursue a woman and I think that's innate in their desire to go first and lead in that area. But I do think just overall what I see in a lot of women is a lot of proving energy, a lot of pick me energy of like, pick me, pick me, choose me, me. I'm the girl, you know? And they're just like, hey, hey, hey, I'm amazing. And they're always trying to just like wave their hands in front of his face, proving to him that they're the most amazing thing on this earth. So there is that balance of you do want to get in his proximity, but you don't want if and you know it. If it's in your head. If you're trying to get him to like you so bad, that's how you Know you're improving energy. And that's where it gets bad because guys will send sense. They will snuff out the desperate energy like no other. And they're like, oh, something about that does not feel like I want to go there.

[Grant]

You know, it's helpful.

[Kate Tomlin]

It's really hard.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Okay. Okay. This. Two more. Is it okay to pray together when you're dating? What are some spiritual boundaries?

[Grant]

So funny. Kate and I kind of disagree on this one. Really love that.

[Kate Tomlin]

Are you about the divos?

[Grant]

We have a couple things that we disagree about and this is one of them.

[Kate Tomlin]

Did you take her through Romans on that first couple days?

[Grant]

So funny. No, I didn't. I wish I would have.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

She needed it.

[Grant]

No, I'm just kidding. Do you want to go first? You go first. Okay. I. I personally think that we've gotten maybe a little over complicated or a little overreaching here. Anytime we operate out of like a fear of or anti, we kind of lose the heart and the goodness of it. So spiritually, you know, there's three boundaries, Physical boundaries. Right. And I think spiritual and emotional boundaries. And what happens as Christians is we don't get physically naked, but spiritually and emotionally we get real naked real fast. Okay. So out of a precaution or boundary, we put up, you know, fences and rules and boundaries so that we don't go too deep too fast in an appropriate amount of time with a partner. Spiritually, emotionally, it's the same kind of thing. We need to be really wise with how deep, deep we go. Think about like an onion in the layers. You know, this is a stranger. A lot of times you have no background, no information on them. You don't know if they're safe or not. So, you know, there's just the one caveat of just be wise and discerning. And I think if you have the Holy Spirit within you, like, I think you have wisdom. So trust that.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Grant]

But if you have accountability partners, if you have people pouring into your life, if you have all that, you're not coming to them out of a place of, oh, I need you as a spiritual whatever. Right. You're good. Do you want that with them? Sure. Do you desire that with them? Sure. But let that come through time. Talk about God in a healthy way. I think like co ed level, you know, small group, you talk about God in your relationship. I think that's healthy, you know, whatever. Level 3 out of 10, 4 out of 10, that's a really good place to stay. And then when you're obviously in relationship, and thinking about getting married. I hope you do. Right. Talk about God a lot.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right.

[Grant]

I hope you do spiritually, really get to know each other really well. So I just think initially, in that first 90 days, it will come. There's no need to get emotionally, spiritually, physically, you know, naked. You know, reserve that for as you get to know each other more. So praying together, I mean, pray together as individuals, but not as one. That's a really helpful way to think about it. Pray together as individuals. If you really want. I mean, again, do you really need to have a prayer meeting with them, you know, on like your second date? I don't know. You know, I think you're just trying to get to know them and go from A to B, B to C, not A to Z right off the get go.

[J.J. Tomlin]

I think that's big though, that not praying together as one unit.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Because you guys aren't a unit.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Until you're in covenant. So I think that would be the biggest distinction is we're not a unit. Okay. We are together going to like, be this unit that are going to pray for this person. But, like, maybe I am going to pray over him because he's dealing with something or he might pray over me. But, like, we're not this couple that we're like, okay, we have this authority together to pray for somebody or for this.

[Grant]

And I'd say the. The last. I just can't help but say it. My fear and my heart breaks when people use spiritual practice, like reading the Bible to bond as a way to get to know each other. So it's like almost not really genuinely about the Bible. It's not really about the devo. It's not really about God. It's actually you just using a tool to get closer to them to get to know their heart. And that's where I really get, you know, you know, upset or sad, you know.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So, yeah, you have to be so careful. I feel like in those. When we're talking about spiritual boundaries, because I do, I think we put so much emphasis on the physical in the church and in, you know, Christian conversations. But that spiritual boundary is so important. I mean, even Grant and I talk about, we've talked about on this podcast. But we had a FaceTime date. He was in Missouri and I was in Dallas, and we were having a FaceTime date and just spent like a long time on the FaceTime just like praying and like, almost crossing that boundary of like, this is what we're supposed to be doing when we're married, but just like, really praying and interceding for each other. And after we got off the call, we were, like, more tempted than we had ever been individually. And it was just like, man, this is not. This is supposed to be reserved for marriage. But now one of the most beautiful aspects of our marriage is there's such a deep spiritual bond and union that's healthy. And we pray together all the time, married. And I feel so safe in that and secure in that and covered in that. And when you do it in dating, you can't feel that same safety and security because you don't know if that's going to be your first person. Right under the covering of marriage, just like sex and sexual acts, it's like, it's safe. You know, you're going to be in the long run with this person, and it just creates that union that we're talking about.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Yes, man.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

This was. This was really fun. This is really good.

[Kate Tomlin]

This is helpful.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I learned a lot. I mean, I feel like I've been out of the dating scene, and I'm like, I just. I learned so much from you guys.

[Kate Tomlin]

Deal breaker version, red flag. So I'm about to go, right?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

All that I got. I got to cross some things out of my book.

[Kate Tomlin]

Yeah, dude. So good.

[J.J. Tomlin]

Thank you all for coming. So good. Yeah. Thank you guys for coming on stage. True Podcast, guys. This is so fun.

[Kate Tomlin]

Thanks for having us.

[Grant]

Love you guys.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Well, guys, as always, be sure to stay you and stay true. We love you.