The Holy Spirit, Gifts of the Spirit, and How to share the Gospel with Grant Troutt

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
Episode Title: The Holy Spirit, Gifts of the Spirit, and How to Share the Gospel with Grant Troutt
Release Date: November 18, 2024

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Introduction: Celebrating Love and New Beginnings

In the opening moments of this heartfelt episode, host Madison Prewett Troutt and her husband Grant Troutt celebrate their two-year wedding anniversary. They reminisce about their romantic trips to Vermont and Maine, expressing gratitude for their journey together and excitement for their impending arrival of a new baby. This personal touch sets a warm and relatable tone for listeners, emphasizing the podcast's blend of personal experiences with deeper spiritual discussions.

Notable Quote:

"Life can be hard and confusing, but together we can stay true." – Madison [00:26]

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Section 1: Understanding the Holy Spirit

Madison and Grant delve into an in-depth discussion about the Holy Spirit, aiming to clarify common misconceptions and provide a biblical foundation for understanding this pivotal aspect of Christian faith.

1. Who is the Holy Spirit?

   • Person of the Trinity: They affirm that the Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—emphasizing that the Holy Spirit is not merely a force or power but a divine person who dwells within believers.
   • Scriptural References: Madison cites John 14:16-17, where Jesus describes the Holy Spirit as the "Helper" and the "Spirit of truth" sent to dwell within believers, highlighting the personal and guiding nature of the Holy Spirit.

2. Old Testament vs. New Testament Experience

   • Old Testament: The Holy Spirit did not permanently dwell in individuals but came upon certain people for specific tasks (e.g., Samson). The presence of God was symbolized by the Ark of the Covenant within the Holy of Holies, accessible only by the high priest.
   • New Testament: With Jesus' resurrection and ascension, the barrier was removed, allowing the Holy Spirit to permanently reside within believers, facilitating a personal and ongoing relationship with God.

3. Sealed vs. Filled with the Holy Spirit

   • Sealed: Referencing Ephesians 2:8-9, they discuss the Holy Spirit as a seal marking believers as God's own, a guarantee of salvation.
   • Filled: They explore the difference between being sealed and being filled with the Holy Spirit, noting that the latter often refers to dynamic interactions with the Holy Spirit, such as receiving specific spiritual gifts.

4. Debates on Spiritual Gifts

   • Charismatic vs. Traditional Views: The conversation touches on differing perspectives within Christianity regarding the baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit. While some believe in a second baptism leading to gifts like tongues and prophecy, others see the Holy Spirit's presence as a one-time sealing event.
   • Biblical Basis: They encourage listeners to read 1 Corinthians 12-14 and 1 Corinthians 13 to understand the diversity and unity of spiritual gifts, stressing that these gifts are meant for the common good and to build up the church.

Notable Quotes:

"The Holy Spirit will never contradict the word of God." – Madison [34:04]
"Love binds everything together." – Grant [39:43]

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Section 2: Sharing the Gospel – Overcoming Fear and Practical Steps

Transitioning from theological discussion, Madison and Grant address a topic of high importance: evangelism. They share personal insights and strategies for effectively sharing one's faith with others.

1. Personal Struggles with Evangelism

   • Grant opens up about finding it increasingly challenging to share his faith one-on-one, highlighting common fears and hesitations many believers face.
   • Madison relates by emphasizing the importance of maintaining a clear focus on God rather than succumbing to the fear of human judgment.

2. Practical Steps for Sharing the Gospel

   • Prayer: Both stress the necessity of praying for opportunities and the courage to share one's faith. Grant advises listeners to ask God to "open up a door" for conversation.
   • Be Bold: Drawing inspiration from Acts 4, they encourage listeners to seek the boldness the Holy Spirit provides, enabling them to witness effectively.
   • Conversation Starters: They suggest engaging questions, such as:
     1. "On a scale of 1 to 10, how sure are you that you would go to heaven if you died today?"
     2. "If you died today and stood before the gates of heaven, what would you say to God about your life?"
   • Sharing Personal Testimonies: Emphasizing authenticity, they recommend sharing one's personal story of faith without trying to present oneself as the savior, but rather pointing to Jesus as the source of salvation.

3. Emphasizing God's Role in Salvation

   • Madison highlights Revelation 12:11, explaining that overcoming comes through "the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony," reinforcing that salvation power resides in Jesus, not in the individual's efforts.
   • They caution against making evangelism about personal success or fear of rejection, focusing instead on obedience to God's call.

Notable Quotes:

"Only Jesus can save; I am only called to share the good news." – Madison [54:27]
"You're created to know him and then make him known to other people." – Grant [60:50]

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Section 3: Integrating Love and Service in Evangelism

Madison and Grant emphasize that the foundation of sharing the gospel is love. They reference 1 Corinthians 13 to illustrate that without love, even the greatest gifts of the Spirit are meaningless.

1. Love as the Foundation

   • They discuss how the Pharisees missed the central commandment of love by focusing on power and status, serving as a cautionary example.
   • Madison reinforces that Christians are called to love God and love others, with spiritual gifts serving to edify Christ and the church, not for personal glorification.

2. Avoiding People-Pleasing

   • Highlighting Galatians 1:10, they warn against trying to please both God and people, stressing that believers must prioritize God's approval over human acceptance.
   • This mindset is crucial for authentic evangelism, ensuring that the motivation remains rooted in faith rather than personal comfort or social standing.

Notable Quotes:

"You cannot be a servant of Christ and a people pleaser." – Madison [71:46]
"Love is what binds everything else together." – Grant [39:43]

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Conclusion: Encouragement and Prayer

The episode concludes with Madison and Grant offering heartfelt prayers for their listeners. They seek God's guidance in understanding and experiencing the Holy Spirit more deeply, as well as the boldness to share their faith effectively. Their prayers encompass:

• Revelation of the Holy Spirit: Asking God to make Himself more known to listeners who desire a deeper relationship.
• Boldness in Evangelism: Praying for the courage to share the gospel without fear.
• Guidance in Mission: Encouraging listeners to prioritize their spiritual mission over personal comfort or the fear of rejection.

Notable Quote:

"Only Jesus can make someone's eternity." – Madison [73:24]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Stay True seamlessly blends personal anecdotes with profound theological insights, offering listeners both inspiration and practical advice. Madison and Grant Troutt's genuine conversation about the Holy Spirit and evangelism serves as an encouraging guide for believers seeking to deepen their faith and impact the world around them.

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Key Takeaways:

• The Holy Spirit is a divine person within the Trinity, actively guiding and empowering believers.
• Understanding the difference between being sealed and filled with the Holy Spirit enriches one's spiritual life.
• Sharing the gospel is both a divine mandate and a personal mission, achievable through prayer, boldness, and authentic conversation.
• Love must remain the cornerstone of all spiritual gifts and evangelistic efforts, ensuring actions align with God's commandments.

Recommended Scripture References:

• John 14-16
• Ephesians 2:8-9
• 1 Corinthians 12-14
• Galatians 1:10
• Revelation 12:11
• Romans 1:16

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout, here with my husband.

[B]

I love you in a ponytail.

[A]

I really.

[B]

I really love you in a ponytail.

[A]

I was not expecting him to say that. Guys, do I look like, official and legitimate?

[B]

You do. Oh, like if we put a blazer on you, I'm like, she's about to run for office.

[A]

If you're not watching the video. I have a ponytail and I never really wear my hair.

[B]

No. And you're wearing the necklace I gave you for our one year anniversary.

[A]

And we just celebrated at this. Two years.

[B]

Two years, baby.

[A]

Two years that's flown by. We have been married for two whole ones.

[B]

We were in Vermont and Maine. Unbelievable. So beautiful. And let's just say it. I was romantic.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

Okay, okay. Talk about not romantic. Guys, she's not in the mood, but joking. She's crying because of all that.

[A]

All that I planned because of how amazing you are.

[B]

When you walked in those hotel rooms. What'd you see?

[A]

I don't know. Anyways, very romantic, guys.

[B]

Two years, it flies me.

[A]

And I'm very grateful and I'm so thankful that we have. That we were able to get away. You know, something we've been talking about lately is like, we are so excited for this baby to be here. Like, truly cannot be more excited and thankful. And we're like, wow, it's really just been us the last two years. And I told him, I was like, I'm going to really miss, like, it being just us too. Which is like, such a weird thing to say because you're obviously so excited about your baby coming and obviously that's gonna just change the dynamic. Naturally it will.

[B]

And I'm gonna miss, like, coming home from a trip and being like, should we shower up and then watch a movie on the couch? And not that we can't do that anymore, but man, it's gonna change a little bit.

[A]

It will change things.

[B]

Okay. We're on Harry Potter number three right now, baby.

[A]

Wow, that's a controversial thing. Is Harry Potter evil?

[B]

Is it evil? I wasn't allowed to watch it growing up.

[A]

I wasn't allowed to watch it either.

[B]

But we have absolutely divin. Dove.

[A]

Dove.

[B]

Dove deep into Harry Potter. Started it last year.

[A]

And listen, guys, it's still up in the air because I'm not gonna lie, I have.

[B]

I feel weird after watch.

[A]

So I was gonna say episodes. I have watched some of the movies and had some, you know, crazy dreams.

[B]

I know.

[A]

So we go Back and forth. This is not an endorsement for anyone to go wrestle.

[B]

This isn't life a live wrestle.

[A]

This is a live wrestle. You're. You're watching us in the middle of it.

[B]

Where do you stand on Harry Potter?

[A]

Because I gotta know, because here's thing I have. We have some people in our life that are like, harry Potter is a demonstration of the gospel.

[B]

Like the clearest gospel you'll ever see.

[A]

I feel like that's a stretch.

[B]

Like more than Lord of the Rings are saying.

[A]

And. No, Lord of the Rings is the goat. We are die hard Lord of the Rings fans.

[B]

Huge.

[A]

We watched it on our honeymoon.

[B]

We did.

[A]

I got food poisoning. And we. We watched.

[B]

We got. We gotta talk about that sometime.

[A]

But no. And then there's the other side, which is like Harry Potter is. Is just demonic.

[B]

And what it obviously is, is witchcraft.

[A]

Which there is for sure, witchcraft and spells.

[B]

But it's like good versus evil, which is really weird when you're including witchcraft and spells. But.

[A]

And there's some. There are some interesting crossover points with like snakes and dragons representing evil and one person representing, you know, kind of like more like this savior complex type situation. I don't. I don't want to spoil versus, like.

[B]

You know, if you have dark Lord, it's crazy. All I know, if you take all that away, the storyline and the plot is like so good. It like draws you in so much.

[A]

But obviously, clearly we're wrestling. Wrestling as we're watching.

[B]

So pray for us.

[A]

But yeah, let us know what you think. But our trip was good. Any updates? Do we have any updates for them?

[B]

Yeah, we do.

[A]

We did find a doctor, guys. Thank you, Jesus.

[B]

Thank you, Lord.

[A]

This baby is coming in the next few months, in the next little bit. And we found a doctor and it was a struggle. Hey, you hold it up, okay? He holds it like he's like some rapper. Like 10ft away.

[B]

I'm like, so, yeah.

[A]

Or up. Yeah.

[B]

No. Do you remember the first time?

[A]

First time you recorded?

[B]

No, the. So the first Sunday at Harris Creek that I got to speak at.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

At the very start of my talk, I have the little Britney Spears mic on. It goes completely out.

[A]

Oh my gosh.

[B]

And they have to come out on stage.

[A]

Britney Spears mic, as in it's attached to his head. It's like a singer mic.

[B]

It's attached to my mic. My face. It's like. It's like beating against my mouth. So every time I talk, it's like.

[A]

Like, like the pain, it's making that like.

[B]

And everyone's like, dude, like. And I'm just like, so everyone so nervous.

[A]

And it's one of his first times speaking at Harris Creek.

[B]

And then Coley comes up behind me and touches me. And I was like, what in the.

[A]

One of the guys that works at the church who handles like, sound, video, all the things.

[B]

You're such a good.

[A]

Yeah, he. He says things with no context.

[B]

Explains what I said.

[A]

And you guys have no idea what he's talking about. And so he. He's like, yeah, Coley. And I'm like, okay, let's explain.

[B]

But if Coley was to watch. Coley knows.

[A]

I know, but that's one person out of a couple. Yes.

[B]

So listen, I get a handheld mic and I'm already a little like, okay, what's going on? But apparently like, I'm holding this mic like, like I'm Eminem about to drop a beat and I. And I, you know, I thought you were going to laugh at that when I said that.

[A]

It was literally so funny. But you have grown a ton in your communication.

[B]

Well, I've just grown a ton on how to hold a mic, honestly.

[A]

But sometimes you forget when you're on the podcast.

[B]

JP's like, hey, hand here. Put it right on the chin. He's like, just put it down here. I'm like, got it, man. I just feel better up here.

[A]

Okay, well, that's our update, guys. We do have. We found a doctor Grant knows how to hold a microphone.

[B]

Thank you, Lord. Yes.

[A]

We had our two year anniversary trip and everything is starting to come together here. We are very, very grateful. We also want to acknowledge the fact I've had so many people be like, we miss your Stay True studio. I guys, I miss my.

[B]

We went back there recently to.

[A]

I'm so sad.

[B]

It looks so good.

[A]

We said our goodbyes to our Waco home and we. Because we went back to like finalize packing some stuff up and I walked in my podcast studio and I just. You were meeting, I think someone for coffee and I just hit my knees and started crying to the Lord. I just burped.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

I'm sorry. It's pregnancy. He knows I have really bad indigestion. Anyways, guys, sorry for the little burp. I have really bad indigestion and being pregnant. But I went to the podcast room and in our Waco home and I just hit my knees and I started crying and I just remembered like the first episode I recorded and the first one we recorded and the guest I had on and more than anything, just like, the prayers that I had in that room before I started the podcast and behind the scenes of the podcast, I mean, it just took me back. But all that to say, we acknowledge that this setup is not ideal. And also the random studios that I'm filming in with guests, I just am learning Tennessee. So I'm like, hey, guys, where do I record podcasts? And I'm trying all these different studios. And thank you guys for bearing with me, because I recognize that the scenery is changing every episode.

[B]

But the cool thing about that is, like, I feel like the people that listen and watch are along this journey with you.

[A]

Yeah, you guys.

[B]

And they're going on this journey of, like, okay, it started here. Interim is a little bit random. What is it? But, like, when you find the next one, it's going to be cool that everyone was with you along the way.

[A]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

And I think we did find the next one on the low, so bear with us.

[A]

It's going to be really cool.

[B]

Pray.

[A]

Fingers crossed. It might be after maternity leave, so we'll have to figure out what maternity leave looks like, but I'll keep you guys in the loop with that. I'm also praying through that and learning that myself, because this is a new. A new season of life. Your girl's never been pregnant before. So I'm like, yeah, what does work look like? And, you know, and how do I prioritize? Jesus, then baby. Well, no, sorry. Jesus, then husband, then baby. But, like. But baby might actually come first for just that season.

[B]

Many husbands have said, be. Be ready to take a backseat.

[A]

No, just for that season. Just for, like, literally the first six weeks when it's like, I mean, she's going to be.

[B]

Y'all hearing this. I'm telling you, you're my accountability. The first six weeks and then I'm.

[A]

Back, and then you're back. You are.

[B]

Y'all heard it here first because what.

[A]

Was our little phrase we used to always say that we would tell our kids?

[B]

You would do.

[A]

I would always say.

[B]

I don't want to say it. You say it.

[A]

I would say, God comes first, Daddy comes second, you come third. And I would just joke and be like, that's what we're going to tell our kids one day. And it's true, because you will come second. Right. Right after Jesus.

[B]

I will. You better believe that.

[A]

I'm just saying, for those first six weeks, I mean, she's going to like. I mean, she'll need you.

[B]

She'll need some attention.

[A]

Yeah. She's 24 7.

[B]

That's all.

[A]

I'm not going to be sleeping, so you guys need to be praying for me because Grant wants to sleep.

[B]

I'm going to help. Oh, my gosh.

[A]

You're going to help. You're going to help so much, but.

[B]

I will sleep a little bit.

[A]

You're going to be the best girl that ever.

[B]

I'm excited.

[A]

Okay, so we. For this podcast, we were like, let's just do a little fun Q and A moment, and just the things that they're asking about. The DMS you guys have been sending in, I've been getting from a lot of you guys. You know, just different topics, like waiting seasons, people pleasing, friend breakups, holy spirit, gifts of the spirit. I mean, so many amazing topics and conversations that you guys have brought up. And please keep sending them, because I would love to know what you guys want to hear about, what you guys like to hear about. And it's just really helpful for us when we're recording podcasts, but this one's going to be a little sporadic, and we're going to talk. We're going to try and touch on a few different topics and address a few different things.

[B]

I want. Man, this is off topic, but can I just be honest with y'all?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I went to the chiropractor for the first time today.

[A]

He's in his head. Guys.

[B]

No, they, like, I've never been to a chiropractor. My back's not messed up, but I've had a lot of surgery, so I was like, hey, I want to just check out. Like, I hear about alignment. Like, I want to make sure I'm aligned.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And, yeah, that's a whole. Golly. I want to be aligned. So I go in today, and they take these X rays of my neck and my back, and the girl was like, oh, man. And I'm like, what? What do you see? And she's just like, hey, you know, it's supposed to curve in your neck area, and it's, like, straight. She's like, your lower back, it's supposed to curve. It's, like, pretty straight. So all the while, I'm sitting here hearing you talk, and I'm so here. I'm so here.

[A]

He's not here.

[B]

But I'm like, what's going on with my neck or my spine? I'm, like, a little scared.

[A]

So maybe we add in here. Fear, intrusive thoughts.

[B]

It's not even. I'm just like, do y'all think I'm okay? Mike, it doesn't hurt.

[A]

You're fine. You're fine.

[B]

Do you think it was just sports growing up?

[A]

Okay, here's the thing. Grant, I don't even know if he's, like, fully shared his testimony on here, if I'm honest. I think we. One of the first episodes we recorded, we were like, we're going to do your testimony and our story, and then the whole episode ended up being just our story.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we need to have, like, an episode where we really get into your testimony honestly. But. But part of your testimony and life experience is that you've had how many surgeries?

[B]

Five. Major. Major surgeries.

[A]

Major surgeries. And one of those being. When we were engaged, Grant had a hip replacement. Full hip place. And so in our three month engagement season, we're going through. We went through a. There was a lot happening in that engagement season. Your grandmother passed away. Hip surgery. There were, like, some friend situation. Things happening.

[B]

Yeah, man.

[A]

There was a lot going on and we decided to move, and so we were trying to find a house in Waco. All that being said, though, I just hope.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. She just.

[A]

It was like, okay, but.

[B]

All right. Hey, you need to come back asap. I was like, well, I'm going out of town for a week. She's like, okay. The next day, I was like, are you concerned? Like, I was like, are you more. Should I be concerned?

[A]

There's something else to know about.

[B]

No, don't. Why are you not just, like, empathizing with me right now?

[A]

Because you are being so insecure. Sick. No, I'm just kidding.

[B]

Shout out Ali Stucky. New York Times bestseller.

[A]

Yes, but no, that's not why.

[B]

I'm saying they're feeling for me. And you're like, totally.

[A]

They are feeling for you, but I'm just saying sometimes.

[B]

No, tell them. Tell them what I'm telling. What I struggle with.

[A]

If I'm like, grant, I. My left shoulder is like. It's bothering me. All of a sudden, Grant's like, oh, my left shoulder has been kind of bothering me. I'm like, grant, do you think that, like, I'm going to be okay if I have, like, this rash? He's like, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm starting to itch. Or like, if we walk into, I don't know, a new apartment or something, he's like, there might be mold.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, it's a thing.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Y'all have heard of the gas story that we left our natural gas on for. For, like, five months in our house. And I Was breathing it in and it was slowly killing the oxygen to my brain and it was slowly killing me. I was reacting worse.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so everywhere I go, I'm like, what do they call them? A hypochondriac.

[A]

Yeah, a hypochondriac.

[B]

Hypo. Hypothermia.

[A]

No, no, that's not arachnophobia.

[B]

I just.

[A]

A hypochondria.

[B]

I can look at someone and it's like if they're like, hey, I'm having a hard time breathing. I'm like, I think I'm. It's contagious. I can't breathe right now either. I just take people's. And I need to get better at it. I do, I do. But all that to say, I went to the chiropractor and boy, I hope my neck's okay.

[A]

Your neck is okay. You're fine.

[B]

You are just.

[A]

You're fine. You can tell who's grace and who's truth.

[B]

And I really say, do you see what I do? Like when I bring stuff to her?

[A]

No, that's not true. I have my moments of really empathizing and really comforting. And then I have my moments where I'm like, you're overthinking. Or don't like, just take it to God. It's fine. So.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

I think that's. That leads to a good little transition to talk about. I don't even think that transitions to anything.

[B]

I was like, we were going back.

[A]

No, our bodies are fine.

[B]

Oh, they're okay. And they're good. They're great, actually.

[A]

What is the Bible? The Bible says something about that outward you are.

[B]

Yes. Day by day, slowly fading away.

[A]

Slowly fading away.

[B]

Inwardly you're being renewed day by day.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

So that's true.

[A]

We know that these are not our first forever homes that we are just.

[B]

It's tense. We're in for a little bit. Yep.

[A]

Foreigners living for. Okay, we gotta be serious.

[B]

This girl knows her Bible throughout foreigners. She's like, gosh, sojourners in this tent.

[A]

Anyways.

[B]

So wait, what are we. I'm so nervous because I really.

[A]

You're not nervous?

[B]

I really want to talk about something.

[A]

What do you want to talk about?

[B]

I really want to talk about what you were going to say.

[A]

What was I going to say?

[B]

Come on. What we talked about right before we said press film.

[A]

People pleasing the Holy Spirit. Yes, the Holy Spirit. We touched on a few different topics. So I think that's what we're going to do for this podcast is just touch on A few different topics. So grant, who is the Holy Spirit?

[B]

Who for real.

[A]

For real, is the Holy Spirit?

[B]

No, this is where we're locking in right now because this is really important.

[A]

And because I think that there's a lot of confusion around the Holy Spirit. And honestly, we come from very different backgrounds when it comes to the Holy Spirit. I mean, I would say I grew up very charismatic. The Holy Spirit and I were best friends at, like, I was eight years old, you know, and I believed in all the things I experienced and watched God move even through me with miracles, healing. I mean, and I experienced that from a very young age. Why are you laughing?

[B]

You want to tell them about how you healed that lady?

[A]

How the Lord healed?

[B]

No, I know, but, like, she. Okay, he was like, she was the wart healer. I know she could heal anybody with warts.

[A]

It's not true.

[B]

Tell them.

[A]

No, I had warts that. You're getting the story mixed up.

[B]

I thought you healed the lady who.

[A]

Had warts on her hand. Had warts all over my knees. And my family had. We tried all of these different things. Like, we went to multiple. Like, what do they call dermatologists? And they were saying how it was going to be pretty painful to have to remove all the warts. And I was like, I don't want it to be really painful. And so I went home and I prayed over my knees, and I woke up the next day and they were gone. I'm dead serious. So you. Yes, I guess you could say wart.

[B]

So if any of you guys. But if y'all need to come see Maddie.

[A]

No, but the other story you're talk about, it wasn't warts. It was this lady at church. And so this was. I was probably 11 or 12 years old at this point. My family and I, we had just moved to Mobile, Alabama, from a small town at Moore, Alabama. We moved to Mobile. We were going to this new church. And this lady, like, comes up to me. Had never seen her before in my entire life. And I mean, and I'm a young girl. She comes running up to me and she has. She shows me her arms, and she has this, like, skin disease going on on her arms. And she was just telling me how it was causing her so much pain and also so much shame. Like, she was so embarrassed to show her arms. She always wore long sleeves. And how it was just. It was itchy, it was painful. And she said, the Lord, like, highlighted to me you and I felt led to ask you to pray over my arms. And I just had Such radical faith, like, truly. And we, I mean, we all should have such radical faith all the time. But as a young, you know, 11, 12 year old who had such an intimate relationship with Jesus and such a close relationship with the Holy Spirit, there was no doubt in my mind that my God could not heal. Like, I was like, I knew she was going to get healed. And so instantly when she said that, I was like, let's pray. And I laid hands on her and prayed and I didn't think anything about it. I'm not going to lie. I went about. I probably went to like Pizza Hut after with my family and I'm just going about my day. And then the next week, she comes up to me at church and she said, look, I have to show you something. And she showed me her arms. They were completely healed. She was completely healed of that skin disease. And she was like, I have no more pain. I now, like, I can start wearing shirts like that. I can show my arms. And she was so, so thankful and so happy. And I just rejoiced. And I was like, man, there is nothing impossible for our God. Like, and he still works miracles today. He still heals today. And I think what's so cool is I look back at that time and I get convicted because I think that now if someone were to come up to me and ask me that question, I would maybe have hesitation or doubt or fear of man, and that that would get in the way of God being able to move in such a powerful way. Because when I was 11 or 12, childlike faith, I had such childlike faith. Like, I was just like, of course my God can do this.

[B]

I read this in the Bible. Like, I want to do what the Bible says.

[A]

And there was no fear of, like, what if it doesn't?

[B]

What if it doesn't? Yeah, I just was like, you just left your God? Yeah, man. So this is so good. And if there's anything that we've said that's like, making light of this, this is really serious to us. And the Holy Spirit is such a, like, hot topic on. I grew up in a, in a world that was not that. So I grew up in the church that we didn't really touch on the Holy Spirit all that much. It was definitely talked about, but it wasn't something that was like, yeah, you can call upon the power of the Holy Spirit to move in ways that, like, otherwise would not happen. And I just, I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't taught that, but it was.

[A]

Kind of like the Joke was God.

[B]

Father, Son, Holy Scriptures instead of Holy Spirit. And so we. What I love about the way I was raised is that we held the Word of God in such reverence and holiness. And that's why I love the Word of God. And so here's what I love, what the Bible says, and this is in John 14. And then I'm going to jump to John 16. This is what it says about the Holy Spirit, Jesus talking in verse 15 of John, chapter 14. If you love me, you will keep my commandments. That's a whole word right there. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another helper, capital H, to be with you forever. Even the Spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. And then Jesus says this, I will not leave you as orphans. I will come to you. And so, right then and there, he promises that, hey, I'm going to go away, but I'm sending the Helper, capital H, that's what the Spirit's called, the helper, the Spirit of truth, to dwell in you. I'm not going to leave you as orphans without a guide, without a leader. I'm sending the Spirit to dwell in you. And then this is what it says in verse 16. Jesus talking once again. He says, nevertheless, in verse 7, I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away. For if I do not go away, the helper, capital H, will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. Okay, that's really important because how many of you guys, if you had the option, if Jesus could come down right now and be with you and walk with you and go to class with you, go to work with you, hang out with you and your family, if you had that option to be with physical Jesus versus him going away and just having a spirit. I don't think we believe what Jesus said, that it's to your advantage that I go, because the one I'm sending you is going to dwell in you. He's not just going to dwell with you. Maddie's with me. The Holy Spirit, the Helper, is in me, there to guide me in all truth and all power and all discernment and all wisdom. So who is the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity, the triune God, which is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not a force. The Holy Spirit is not just a power. The Holy Spirit is a person. It's called he in the Bible. He will come. He will direct you. He will speak to you. The Holy Spirit is a person. The Holy Spirit is God. It's just as God. He is just as God as the Father, he is just as God as the Son. We don't have time to kind of unpack the Trinity. It's a very confusing, very hard to grasp. But that's what we believe in the Bible is that the our God is the Trinity. God, which is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. So Father and God we get, right? We get Father, which is our Father and Son, Father and Son. We get Father As Creator, Genesis 1, Father, we get Old Testament God. Then we see in Matthew 1, that's where Jesus, the incarnate God, John chapter 1 says, the Word became flesh. So Jesus, we get that too. Jesus came. Jesus died for our sins. Jesus rose from the grave. That's the only way we're saved. Jesus. Matthew 28 rises. Disciples go, oh gosh, what now? So they go, let's go back to our room. And just Jesus said to wait, so let's go wait. And that's when we see in Acts chapter 2 where the disciples are waiting and they're kind of like, okay, we know God, the Father's up there. This guy named Jesus just came down, did all this, rose from the grave. He's the Messiah, but he just left. And he just said, we have all this work to do. What are we going to do? Acts chapter two, Pentecost. The Holy Spirit comes in the room, dwells within these believers. And that's when you see these believers are never ever, ever the same. No, when you look at Peter, boldness, power, signs, wonders, witnessing in front of kings and governors, and they don't care. So when you look at Peter, he was denying Jesus just a few pages before in the Gospel of John, to a little girl saying, I don't bleepity bleep. No Jesus, that's Peter Coward. You see Peter in Acts chapter 2, 3, 4, 5, Peter stands up and the Bible says, filled with the Holy Spirit and begins to witness on what he has seen and heard. So the Holy Spirit is the seal. It's the gift to believers that Jesus is now dwelling within you. The Spirit of God now dwells within you.

[A]

Okay, that's really good, Perfect summary. Let's back up a little bit and just talk about quickly. In the Old Testament, what did the Holy Spirit look like? Because it was very different in the Old Testament before Jesus ascended and the Holy Spirit descended and came down to live within Us, what did it look like in the Old Testament for the Holy Spirit? Because it was very different. So if any of you have read in the Old Testament, and that's, like, confusing. I just. I think we should explain that a little bit, 100%.

[B]

So the holy Spirit never dwelt in somebody in the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit would come upon someone. It would typically say, then the Spirit of God rushed upon Samson. And it was. It was typically for a special moment, for an assignment God had for them for a word from the Lord. So you see, a lot of the prophets were rushed upon by the Spirit of God, and they would speak a word from the Lord. But. But as you kind of read every Old Testament character and story, it was never that the Spirit of God dwelled in them.

[A]

And the. And the Spirit of the Lord was in, like, the ark of the covenant. It was in, like, a tent in the tabernacle, in, like, the. Only the holy of holies. Only the priest who was, like, designated for that time could go before and enter, like, the holy of holies, where the presence of the Lord dwell. It was it. And that was what the beautiful thing about Jesus was, was there used to be this, like, divide to where not just anybody could be in the presence of the Lord. Not just anybody could experience the spirit and power of the Lord. It was only, like, reserved for, like, a certain person, 100%. But now because of Jesus, when Jesus came and through his death and resurrection and then ascension, he tore that curtain, he tore that veil, and now there is no longer a separation between. And that now we can be in the presence of the Lord and we can have the Spirit of the Lord dwell within us like Grant's talking about.

[B]

Yeah, that's good. So a little bit of history that I. I'm gonna try and really run through, and then. And then let's break and go somewhere.

[A]

Don't talk too fast.

[B]

I know. So I get excited. So the summary of the Old Testament is this, is that God created Adam and Eve and he said, hey, I want to dwell with you. And so he walked with them, and he gave them the perfect garden. And he just said, hey, there's one tree. There's one tree. God stacked the odds in our favor. And you see, if he didn't add that one tree, it would be forced love. There would be no option for them to not love God. And so he made love a choice, which is the only way love can exist. Now the serpent came in and said, you need to eat from that tree. And they said, I Want to be just like God. They took that fruit, they ate it. Sin entered the world. Ever since that moment, we've been needing a sacrifice for that sin. Does that make sense? Going too fast?

[A]

No, keep going.

[B]

God then chose a man by the name of Abram in Genesis 12 and said, Abram, I choose you, and through your descendants I'm going to bless. And there will come one. The Savior, that will be the Savior of the world. Abram was the first, you know, the Father of Israel, the father of the Hebrews, renamed Abraham. Yes, Abraham. And so when you read all through that, you read through Exodus, which is Moses. Moses leads the Israelites out of Egyptian captivity, through the red see, into the promised land. Joshua leads them in. They go through the kings, they go through all of that. And every step of the way, when Moses led them out, God was like, I want to dwell with you. I want to dwell with my people, but I can't dwell with sin. I can't dwell with sinful people. So here's the law. If you obey this law, then I can then dwell with you. And so that was Moses, the Ten Commandments, plus the law. God said, I want to dwell near you. Will you build the Ark of the Covenant so that that will be my presence? So what you just talked about was the tent with the Ark of the Covenant, which represented God's presence. So it wasn't God's Spirit in people. It was an actual place. It was the Ark of the Covenant, where the Holy of Holies laid, where God's presence dwelt. Now only the priest, the high priest could go in, and once a year he could go back to the Holy of Holies behind the curtain that she just talked about, and dwell in the presence of God.

[A]

And when they didn't obey the law, I think that was a really good summary of that because it's important to note when you're talking about that sacrifice that needs to be made for sin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When they didn't obey the law, what.

[B]

Did they have to do?

[A]

They would have to sacrifice, like, animals. An animal, a bull or a goat or whatever it may be. And that was a payment for their sins.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. The blood atoned for their sins. There had to be a death penalty for the sin that they committed. And so there was this kind of long list of how you had to atone for the sins. But anyways, the tent, the Ark of the Covenant, the tabernacle, it had multiple different parts, and we don't have time to go all through it, but they all represent Jesus the table of showbread, which is the bread of life. The lampstand, which is the light of the world. The bronze laver, which is where you would cleanse the animal. It's the washing of the Holy Spirit. There's so much. There's so much there. But there would be this curtain. There was this curtain between where everyone else could go and then the holy of holies, where only the high priest could go back there and talk to God. What was so crazy is about when Jesus came, they had this physical temple set up and they still had the holy of holies. They had that curtain, Jesus on the cross when he died. You can read this in the Gospel accounts that when he died, the curtain in that temple tore in two. And the Book of Hebrews says that Jesus was the curtain that was torn into so that now you and me can have a relationship and a right standing with God in the holy of holies. We don't need a mediator anymore. We don't need the high priest to go on our behalf. Jesus said, because of my payment, I was torn in two. Now I'm the bridge that bridges you and God. So now that you and God can have a relationship, and that's where Catholicism and some other different sects of Christianity get a little bit off, is that we don't need a priest to confess to. We don't need a priest to go pray on our behalf. We get to talk to God on our own because of Jesus. So we pray to the Father through the Spirit, basically on Jesus's behalf, like Jesus made that way. So we pray to the Father through the Spirit in Jesus name. That's what I was looking for.

[A]

Yeah, so that was really good and probably a little overwhelming.

[B]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[A]

If you're listening and you're like, wow, I just got a whole. But how cool is that Testament story?

[B]

The curtain was torn.

[A]

But it's pretty unreal that when you read through the Old Testament, it's all just leading up to Jesus, pointing to Jesus. Every single bit of it is leading up to Jesus. And then the life of Jesus that he lived so perfectly, and then he. He paid the price for us, and then he ascends to heaven. He's like, hey, as good as this has been, it's even better that I may go to the Father so that I may send the Spirit, the helper, the comforter, the advocate. These are names that the Holy Spirit is given to live and dwell within you. And so like Grant was saying earlier, the Holy Spirit's job is to testify to the truth, to point you to the truth, to lead you to the truth. And so the Holy Spirit is never going to contradict the word of God 100%. And I think that's something that can be confusing, that a lot of people can go to certain churches or see certain people maybe that are very charismatic and I guess like spirit filled believers. But they're participating in things or doing things or living in a way that completely contradicts the Word of God. And there are people out there that think that the gifts of the Spirit are dead, that God doesn't move in miraculous ways anymore. And, you know, don't really believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. And that is also not biblical either. And so there is a balance. But it is really important for you to know that the Holy Spirit and the Word of God will never contradict each other. And so with the Holy Spirit in you, it should always be leading you to the truth, to repentance to the presence and the Spirit of the Lord. And so that is an important thing to note. So another thing I was going to ask about the Holy Spirit, it just left my mind.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I've got something while you think about it. So I think it's really helpful to talk about, like now that we know who the Holy Spirit is. And the Bible in Ephesians says the Holy Spirit is our seal. So the King would have a seal. So anything that the King sealed, it was his. He put his name on it. The cool thing about the Bible is the Lord says, for those who have believed in the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, you've been sealed by the King with the King seal, which is the Holy Spirit within you.

[A]

That's what I was going to ask.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So that's really good. So when you decide to believe in Jesus and you say, lord, I want to make you the Lord of my life, and you believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, are you sealed with the Holy Spirit? Thousand percent in that moment?

[B]

Absolutely. Okay, you are sealed.

[A]

And then what's the difference between being sealed with the Holy Spirit and being filled with the Holy Spirit?

[B]

That's a really good question. And that's something that you and I, when we first started dating, really went back and forth on because you're raised in so many different camps. And so there's the charismatic camp that just says, you know, that there's a baptism of the Holy Spirit, so you're saved, the Holy Spirit comes in you, but then you're baptized by the Holy Spirit, which is basically a second filling that that's where tongues comes from. That's where prophecy comes from. That's where the healing gifts come from. The camp I was raised in, hey, once you're saved, the Holy Spirit comes in you and you're sealed, and that's it. And so I came in with that camp. You came in with more of the baptism of the Holy Spirit camp. And we just had really healthy conversations and dialogues and debates about, okay, what do you think about that and what was your experience with that? Well, here's where I've been kind of, like, suspicious or hurt by that. And we just had a good conversation. And that's the really cool thing, is that it's not a primary issue. What do I mean by that? The primary issues within Christianity are, do you believe that Jesus was God? Do you believe in the Trinity, which is Father, Son, Holy Spirit? Do you believe that Jesus died for our sins and that's the only way to heaven? There are very few but very pivotal primary issues in Christianity now. The secondary and third. There's some crazy word that I was.

[A]

Going to try and say, but trinitarian, it's like tertiary, forget it.

[B]

But when you, when, when, when, when you start talking about the baptisms of the Holy Spirit, some people say you're not saved till you have that. I don't believe in that. Some people say that, that you know or believe that there's levels of Christianity and there's varsity and junior varsity, and I don't know. All I know is that it's cool to have a healthy conversation with someone knowing that this doesn't determine our salvation. Now I want to open up the word of God and wrestle with it and read it. And I read that often Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit. After he had been filled, it said he was filled with the Holy Spirit and would get up and speak. Jesus said, I came to baptize you with fire and the Holy Spirit. There's different moments in the Book of Acts where we want you to read that. You read the Gospels in the Book of Acts and you wrestle with what does that look like? But I don't want to get too stuck here.

[A]

And I also, on that topic, it talks about in 1st Corinthians 12 and in 1st Corinthians 13, that we should eagerly desire the greater gifts of the Spirit. And so for those who do make the argument that, you know, the gifts of the Spirit is dead, or you should just be content with, you know, like, Whatever my Russell is. But the scriptures literally say we should eagerly desire the greater gifts of the Spirit. We should be praying, God, give me greater faith. God, give me, you know, the ability to prophesy if it is in your name, according to your will and will, bless other people. God, give me the gift of healing and of miracles. God, give me the gift of tongues. God, give me these gifts. I desire these greater gifts because I want to know you in the most intimate way and because I want to further your kingdom and encourage and love and serve your people.

[B]

And so well, we know that. We know that gifts are for the building up of the church. And so you're not asking for gifts to give you some sort of. Yes, like. Like level of power. It's. It's for other people. That's always what gifts are for.

[A]

Totally. And some of them may be for your own, like tongues, for example. I feel like it's such an intimate thing between you and the Lord, like, that deepens your faith. But it's not necessarily a ranking. It's not like I am, you know, a better Christian if, if this. However, I do believe that it can deepen and grow your faith.

[B]

And here's kind of the homework for you. If you're like a deeper learner, hey, I want to go deeper. Here's what I would just commission you to do, is read 1st Corinthians 12, read 1st Corinthians 13, and read 1st Corinthians 14. And what you're going to see is where Paul lays out the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit. But what's really cool is that you can get so lost in this debate of what's what. Do I have access to what's right? What's good? When you read First Corinthians 13, Paul sums it all back down, and he goes, hey, if you speak in tongues as to the songs of angels, yet you don't have love, you have. You are a clanging symbol. You have nothing. He said, if you give away all your money, you're burned at the stake as a martyr for Jesus, yet you do not have love. You have nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He says, love is what binds everything else together. And so when Jesus said, I have a new commandment that I give to you, it's not go speak. It's not that. This speaking in tongues and healing and all that is like the new commandment. The new commandment is to love. And out of love, there's multiple gifts that he gives.

[A]

Because the Pharisees got so caught up in the power and the status and it being about themselves that they totally missed the greatest commandment of all, which is love, which is service, which is to lay your life down, just as Jesus had laid his life down for us, that we ought to do that for our brothers and sisters in Christ. That is our command and commission as Christians. And so it's so important for us to understand, like, that's the foundation, like, Jesus Christ is the foundation. There is no other foundation other than him. And on top of that, it's like, then it's just love. Like, we are just caught. We are called to love God and love people. And from there, we can still eagerly desire the greater gifts of the Spirit. But just as it talks about in First Corinthians, I believe it's 12. It's talking all about how we are all a part of one body. We are all a part of one body, and we have. There's different members of the body, there's different things of the body, but it's all one functioning body. And it's all meant to edify one thing, which is the head. And the head is Christ, Jesus Christ. And so whether Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus.

[B]

Sounds better, you know, it flowed, man. Okay.

[A]

But it's. It is so important for us to understand that. That we all have been given different gifts. We may have different passions and roles and purposes here on this earth. We may have different spiritual gifts that we are given from the Holy Spirit, from the Lord, but we are not to use that for our own self or our own glorification. It is all meant to edify Christ. And you do that by working together, all for the name of the Lord and in service for other people. And so it's not to be in competition with one another. It's not like, oh, Grant has the gift of healing. I like, I need to have the gift of healing. You know, it's not, oh, like to do this is better to. I don't know. I just think we can get so caught up in what it looks like or how it looks to other people, what it looks like on the outside, and we're totally missing the heartbeat of it when we're talking about spiritual gifts.

[B]

So. So. So the Holy Spirit, he gives us gifts. And so look at this. First Corinthians 12, 4. Now, there are varieties of gifts. It's what we've been talking about. But the same Spirit, There are varieties of service, but the same Lord, there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them in everyone. Get this verse 7, First Corinthians 12 to each is given the manifestation of the Spirit. For the common good. For the common good. So, you know, you can read First Corinthians 12 and see the gifts. We could go on and on and on and on. And by the way, scholars, historians, people have debated this for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. So Maddie and I on a couch in 2024 in Nashville, Tennessee are not going to solve this issue. But we want you to wrestle with it and ask God, Lord, show me what you want me to know about you. Wrestle with it. So it's really good to know the Holy Spirit's a person. He dwells in you. He's the seal. He gives gifts and he empowers you to walk in those gifts through love for the common good of God's people. That's what the Holy Spirit does. Now we could go some different ways.

[A]

Yeah, no, I think that was a really good, I think that was a good summary of the Holy Spirit. If you want to know more about the person of the Holy Spirit, is it John 14 that really addresses a lot about the Holy Spirit.

[B]

14 and 15 and 16.

[A]

14, 15 and 16. Really good. I think specifically John 14 and 16 address the Holy Spirit in an in depth way. I can also link to this podcast some books that have been really helpful for me.

[B]

A book that I want you to link. It's called the Holy Spirit's Names by Tony Evans and it walks through every name that the Holy Spirit's identified as and how the Lord kind of manifests himself in that name really helped me understand the Holy Spirit more because we.

[A]

We briefly touched on that, like the Holy Spirit, some of the names the Holy Spirit is given throughout Scripture is the advocate, the comforter, the helper, you know, spirit of truth, wine. And so we. That I can link some of those books that have been really helpful. Another one is I think the God I Never Knew. And, and I love that you touched on just the differences in the Trinity because the Trinity is three distinct persons, but all in one. And so it can be pretty confusing. And I actually think Tara Leigh Cobble released a book too on the Trinity. So if you also want to know more about the Trinity, I can link some of these books in this episode. But I think that was a really good summary and explanation of the Holy Spirit as much as we know to go into it. But I just want to say, like, the Holy Spirit is not someone to fear. The Holy Spirit is not someone to, to be afraid of or to, I don't know, I Just think for some reason we see like the Holy Spirit is like a ghost or like, you know, this kind of like spooky thing. Whereas, you know, Jesus, we have a picture of what Jesus looks like God, we have an understanding of what God is like. And I feel like the person of the Holy Spirit has been the most confused person of the Trinity and can be scary for a lot of people. And especially just in talking about the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit and going deeper and more intimate with the Holy Spirit can feel very weird for a lot of people. It's like, no, I just, I just, I'm just going to like, read my Bible and I'm just going to like, you know, that that's too. And all I would say is everything that is of God and from God is good and the gifts that God gives are good. And so the Holy Spirit is good. And the person of the Holy Spirit is literally the best. And you're your advocate and your comforter and lives within you to help you understand. Like when you read the Word of God, like when I first started reading the Bible, there were so many things I did not understand. It was very confusing. And the more that I have walked with Jesus and the more that I have spent time in His Word and spent time with the people of God, the Holy Spirit has continued to point me to the truth and given me wisdom and revelation and understanding and insight that when I read the Word of God, I can understand the Word of God. And there's still. Sometimes I read things that I'm like, holy Spirit, I need you to reveal it. Or you know, where I'll ask Grant or I'll ask a pastor that I respect or I'll look up, you know, a certain commentary on Google. But that is the. One of the most beautiful things about the Holy Spirit is that it gives us wisdom and revelation and understanding to know, you know, what is of God and how to lead us down the path of righteousness and to the will of God.

[B]

Yeah, it's really good. And I would just say my wrestle, just keep leaning in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that the prayer to God is God. If there's more of you for me to know or experience, I want, want it, I want it, I want it, man. And just. He's a gentle God. He's a patient God. He's not going to force something that's scary on you. He's not going to force. He's just patient in our journey. But I would pray that God, if there's more of you to know I want it. And if there's. If there's deeper waters of your spirit that I can jump into, I want to jump into it. Lord, I want more of you. If speaking in tongues is getting. Is going. Is going to bring us closer, I want to speak in tongues. Paul says, I speak in tongues more than all of you. And I'm like, what was that?

[A]

Like, Paul was that dude.

[B]

Paul was that dude. But he made love the main thing. And so it's like, keep love the main thing. God's going to take care of the rest. God's going to show you the rest. You keep loving others. You keep telling people about Jesus. You obey his commandments, and he will reveal to you more of who he is.

[A]

I think that's such a good, practical next step is just like, pray that prayer of, Lord, I want more of you. I want more of your spirit. And I desire. I eagerly desire the gifts of the spirit because I want more of you and because I want to be a part of what you're doing on this earth. And I want to be a part of bringing heaven to earth. I want to be a part of pointing others back to you and furthering the kingdom of light. And so I think praying those types of prayers, like, the Lord will, He says, ask and you shall receive. Like, pray in faith, and he will meet you there. Like, you draw near to God, he will draw near to you. And so seeking that out, praying for that is definitely the best next step. And keep wrestling with it and keep turning to scripture and read it on your own, the passages that we're talking about, and talk about it with community. Okay, that was really good. Really helpful. Thank you for diving into that. And I actually have a question for you that I do feel like a lot of people ask and a lot of Christians struggle with, which is, how do I share my faith? How can I evangelize? How can I share the gospel? It can be really intimidating, especially for someone who maybe is a newer believer or just anyone who's like, I don't even know what to say or how to strike up the conversation. And I feel like that's something you're really good at and something that he's. He's better at than I am. And so I feel like I even take notes when you share your faith, you know, with someone that you've never, like just a random person. And I feel like that can be a really intimidating thing to do. And so I'd love to just ask you, like, how do I share the gospel?

[B]

Yeah. It's really good, man. I get both sides. I get both sides of it not being an issue at all. And then I get the side of. I'm really, really, really scared to do this. I'm not sure how to really describe the past season I've been in, but it's been way harder for me to share the gospel one on one with people. I don't. I don't even. I'm just going to get, like, vulnerable with y'all. I. It's just been harder. I don't know why. It's been more of like a 3, 2, 1, you ready? Instead of just like, it's the natural thing. But where I would start is, like.

[A]

And so that being said, there may be seasons.

[B]

Yeah. I feel like there's seasons of, like.

[A]

There may be seasons where it comes a little bit more natural.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And other seasons where you just. If, like, you're just being obedient.

[B]

Totally. Yeah. And you're always called to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sometimes it's just a little easier.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But what I would say is you talk about what you care about. And so for me, like, it's always on the tip of my heart and the tip of my tongue, because it's what I'm in. Like, it's what I care about. And if you're moved by what Jesus did for you, that you were literally on a path to eternal torment in hell, but because Jesus stepped in front of the oncoming bus, the wrath of God, he said, you can be free because of what I did. And when you really grasp that, when you think about that and meditate on that, and you cry about that, and you worship him and say thank you. When you get that and you get out in the real world, you're like, all right, who can I. Who needs to. Who needs to know? Because you're only going to see two people. Anytime you go outside, anytime you walk out of your doors, you're only going to see two types of people. Number one, God's people, people that are saved, brothers and sisters in Christ. Or number two, God's passion, the people that Jesus literally came to save. Jesus had a thesis statement, Luke 10:19. He said, for the Son of man came to seek and save the lost. That was his thesis statement. Hey, y'all want to know why I'm here? For the lost. To seek and save the lost. So if we're going to emulate Jesus, if we're going to walk in his footsteps, we're looking to seek and save the lost through the power of Jesus in us. So that's what I would start there is. Do you. Are you so moved by Jesus that when you walk outside, you're like, oh, it's already here. I don't have to force it. Like, if I have to force it, man, I don't know if I'm really in it. Another thing that I would really lean into is like, Jesus said, I'm going to give you the Holy Spirit so that you can witness. And so the Spirit gives boldness and he allows us to witness and share the Gospel. A verse that you should memorize is Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

So when you speak the God, I remember thinking, okay, I have to perfectly say this and use a lot of my story, which will be relatable. And the more I tell them of my story, the more they may be accepted to it and the more they may receive it. And one day Jesus was like, was me on the cross, bleeding out, raising from the. Is that not enough? Do you think your story is going to be the extra power that helps them receive it? And I think that's where a lot of us sit, is how do I make this so understandable, relatable. Accepting that they hear it. And yes, that's wise. But don't you dare underestimate. It is the power of God for salvation.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

When you preach the gospel, it's not you. It's the spirit of God going out of you that pierces into the heart. Heart. And when you know that, you get to be bold.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You get to say, hey, do you know Jesus? And they're like, what? And you're like, can I just tell you about someone that saved my life? Hey, I'm not just trying to preach as you. He changed my life. And when you speak in a way of this is just real to me. People are so receptive to that. Yeah, people are so much kinder than we think they're going to be in our head.

[A]

One thing I did want to say, though, really quickly off of that is there is a lot of power in sharing your testimony and in sharing your testimony. It's all to point to the power of God and who he is. It's not spend 25 minutes on, you know, coming up with this perfect story of everything you were stuck in and everything that was wrong with you. And then one minute focused on how God saved you.

[B]

Share your story. Know where the power is. Your power is not in your story. The power is in your Savior. Savior. So when you share your story, don't, don't just try and be so relatable that you leave out the person named Jesus Christ.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

Came into my life and changed everything. That's the power.

[A]

That was very beautifully said and what I was trying to say. So that's really, really good because it says in. Is it Revelation 12:11?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In Revelation 12:11, we overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony. Your testimony is powerful because it's how he saved you. But we overcome by the blood of the Lamb. And the only reason your testimony is your testimony is because he saved you. And so it's so important for you to understand where the power comes from and also to take the pressure off of yourself. I think we really put so much pressure on ourself and we make it about ourself that the reason we're afraid to share the Gospel is because we fear man or we think we're the Savior. And both of those are lies. And so taking the pressure off of yourself and realizing, I don't have the power to save, only Jesus Christ can save. I am called to be obedient, to share my story and to share what Jesus Christ has done for me and to point to the truth. But I'm just here to plant a seed, and only Jesus can make it grow. Only the Holy Spirit can make it grow and can cause a person from. Go to go from death to life. I don't have the power and the ability to change someone's eternity. I don't. I am only called to share the good news of Jesus Christ and then the rest, the outcome is up to Jesus. Like he has to do that. He has to do the supernatural. We're just called to do the natural, which is to share our story, which is to point to the Scriptures. And then we trust God to move in a supernatural way to change their eternity, to save their soul. And then the other side of that is don't let the fear of man keep you from sharing the greatest news of all time. Like, don't let your. Don't base your effectiveness or your ability to share with other people on how are they going to respond. Base it off of how good God is, and you can't help but share it. And so it's not about what do these people think about me and how are they going to respond. It's about what does God think about me? And one day I'm going to be face to face with them and what is he going to say to me, how is he going to respond to me in that moment? Is it going to be, you lived your life for the approval of people. You only cared about what other people thought about you, or is it going to be way to go? You had so much faith. You shared the good news of my grace because you feared me, because you loved me, because you understood my power and you knew your time was short. You didn't live for the approval of people. You didn't concern yourself with what they were going to think about you. You cared so much about me, and I'm so proud of you. That's what I want to hear. That's what I want to hear. And that's convicting to even say because I can get so caught up in what other people think about me or in just the busyness of my own life. And here's another thing to touch on really quickly is I think for a lot of us now in Today's world, in 2024, it's actually more comfortable and easier for us to post on social media and want to make a video, go viral about talking about our faith rather than actually go out into our communities and into those around us and share our faith in person and to love and serve the people around us.

[B]

I think like, man, you gotta start with, do you love people? Do you actually love people? Like, when you walk into your job and that front desk person is there, that guy or that girl, do you actually love them? Like, are they worth is their soul that will spend eternity somewhere? Are you moved by that? That do you actually care? And I think, man, it's just like really easy to get caught up in your own walk, your own life, your own spiritual development.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Reading this book and this podcast, and all the while you have your headphones in, what God can do for you, a podcast, and there's someone sitting there that the Lord is like, take your, like, headphones out, like, talk to them. And so I think we can get so obsessed with our spiritual development and lose our spiritual mission, which is to make people know the Savior that you know. So don't get so caught up in your own spiritual development that you miss out on your spiritual mission, which is to seek and save the lost. Another thing is there's this story of an atheist that's still an atheist. And he had this story of, I saw a video one time and he was talking about a guy that came up to him and shared the gospel with him, and he's telling this story and he said, you know, he Came up to me and he proselytized to me. That's the word he said. And he said, I still don't believe him. Like, I believe it's absolute trash. I don't believe it at all. But I was thankful. And he was doing an interview and the guy was like, why were you thankful? He goes, well, if he believes that what he is saying is the actual truth, that if I believe that truth, I won't go to hell and I'll go to heaven and be with God forever. He says, I don't believe that. That. But he said if he believed that, how much would he have to hate me to not come up and talk to me about it? How much would he have to hate me, to look at me and know I don't believe, Know that hell is my eternity and just walk by me?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's so convicting that. How much would we have to hate somebody to know that hell is the destination? Unless you know Jesus and you know, they don't know Jesus, yet you walk by them and you could care less. That has to move us. That has to do something in our souls. And when we let that do something in our souls, when the Holy Spirit, when we ask him for boldness and we open up our mouth and we share the gospel, they will probably, or sometimes the answer may be, thanks, no thanks. But God doesn't determine the outcome. He doesn't determine obedience by the outcome. He asked you to be obedient. It's not about how they respond. It's about you being obedient. There's so many times that I'm in the Uber ride or I'm on a plane and I'm out here sharing it and they're just like, hey, thanks, buddy.

[A]

Not interested.

[B]

Thanks, buddy. But then there's times when people lean in with tears in their eyes and they go, I just asked God right before this plane ride to send me somebody to tell me if he saw me. And he sees me. And guys, I'm begging you, that's the adventure you were made for. Do you know how you feel when you share the gospel? The most alive. I've done every drug there is. You're the most alive because you were created to do that.

[A]

That's so good.

[B]

It's in your God given DNA, which is to know him and then make him known to other people.

[A]

That's so good. And I think we can get so caught up in wanting God's will for our life. God, what's your will? God, what's your will? God, what's your will? And he's like, hey, my will is that all may know me, that all may come to repentance, that all may understand and follow my truth and, and my ways and be with me in heaven. Like that's his heart, is he wants all of us to come to repentance. He wants everyone to know him. And so if we want to actually walk out the will of God and we want to actually be a follower of Christ and call ourselves Christian, we have a role and a responsibility to live on, mission, to go and to also, like Jesus, seek and save the lost in the name of the Lord and by the power of the Holy Spirit to go on mission and to be the hands and feet of Jesus, to serve and to give all in the name of the Lord through the power of the Holy Spirit. It's like that is our mission and that is our focus. And we can get so caught up on, I mean what you said was so good. We can get so caught up in our own life, our own advancement, our own notoriety, our own what other people think about us and how I look to other people that we totally miss the heart of God and we're missing the thing that matters most to him, which is those who don't know Him. Are you taking time every day to pray for the lost? Those that you know in your life and those that you don't know. Are you praying for the lost? Are you taking time each day to find ways to encourage people and to, you know, share the good news, whether it be through how can I pray for you? Or whether it be through engaging in conversation, sharing your testimony, sharing the gospel, like how are you doing that? And I'd love to just wrap up this, this conversation around sharing the gospel with practical steps. Like let's get just super practical really quick because we, we kind of gave a full on charge on why it's so important, why they should. And I think for a lot of people, they know they should, just like they know they should pray, just like they know they should read the Bible more, just like they know, you know, whatever. But it still can be scary, it still can be hard. And so what are some practical steps or even some conversational conversation starters that could lead for an opportunity to share the gospel?

[B]

I, and, and, and I get scared all the time. Just so you know. It's a scary thing. It's really scary. It's much safer to sit here and speak to people on a camera about God.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

To people that want to know God. It's much Different. So I totally get that. The first practical step that I would do if I was you is I would start praying for God to open up a door for you to share the gospel. God, would you open up a door, open up a convo, and give me the strength? The second thing, when you walk outside, I want you to have eyes to see. Jesus often talked about if you have eyes to see. So, Lord, I think there's times that I look around, but I don't see. I want to see who's in front of me. You'll start to see that janitor. You'll start to see that barista. You'll start to see that front desk person. You'll start to see that person that's alone in the corner. You'll start to see the homeless person. And you won't just drive by them, and they won't just be an inconvenience. There'll be a soul that God has prepared for you to go up and go, three, two, one. Hey, how you doing? Or, hey, I just felt like I needed to come talk to you. That's the first step. The second is when you're out there and you're having a conversation with someone. Something that I found, like, really, really easy. This is like plane rides or this is Uber drivers. You just ask a couple questions and then you go, hey, do you have a faith? And then be like, what? But, yeah, like, do you believe anything? Do you have a faith? Like, I've got a faith, and I'm just so curious about where everyone's at. Do you have a faith? And immediately it doesn't sound like, do you know Jesus? You know, it's not as like, whoa. Everyone's like, well, yeah, yeah, man, my parents are Catholic. I go to church. And, oh, man, that's amazing. Tell me more about that. Like, and then, you know, start going, but where you really kind of pin it down is, who's Jesus to you? And. Or just like, what do you believe about Jesus? And I've talked to so many people that are Islamic or that are another faith. And you go, well, who is Jesus to you? And they fully believe in Jesus. Like, Jesus was in the Quran. Jesus is in their Bible, but he wasn't savior. And that's the difference. And you get to go. And then there's something that our pastor really loves to do, jp, which is two questions. And these two questions have been so helpful for me. So the first question that you can ask somebody is, hey, I ask everybody two questions. And I'm really curious about Your thoughts? The first question is this. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being for sure, 1 being not so sure, if you were to die today, how sure are you that you would go to heaven? Oh, man. Gosh, bro, that's a good question, man. Right now I'm a seven. I'm a seven. And I loved it. I love when they say seven. Cause I'm like, bro, me too. I used to say that. I said seven, too. All right, here's the second question. All right, John, whatever his name is, John, if you died today and you stood before the gates of heaven, and God's on one side and John's on the other, and God looks at you, John, and he said, hey, why should I let you in? What would you say? And after they've said seven, this is their second question. They'll go, oh, man, I really think God knew my heart. I really think God knew that I wanted to do the right thing. I wasn't like my friend. And they'll start to list off this.

[A]

List a lot of really good stuff.

[B]

I did all these good things. Or God knew who I really was inside, Therefore, I think he should let me in. And that's your perfect moment for you to go, bro, I used to think the same thing. You know, the Bible doesn't preach that. And you get to go to Ephesians 2, 8, 9 that says this. For it is by grace, through faith that you have been saved. This is not of your own doing. It's the gift of God. Not as a result of works so that no one may boast. Do you know what that means? The only way that we get to heaven is not by our own works. It's by the gift of God. What's the gift of God? Jesus Christ. That's the only way we get to heaven. That opens it up really clearly. Then you get to go back to them and say, hey, you know, there's only two answers to the first question. You can either be a 0 or a 10. But Jesus didn't die for 70% of your sins. Jesus didn't die for 80% of your sins. He either died, he died for 100% of him. You've either accepted that or rejected that. But you can't earn that, that. You can't work for that. So what can you do with the free gift? I love to ask people this. Hey, bro, if I wanted you to have my phone, what can you do with this? I can take it, or I can say, no, I'm good, bro. Exactly. A free gift is Something you can receive or reject. But if you tried to pull out money and say, I'll pay you for it, I'm like, no, I'm choosing to give it to you. That's what the Bible says about your freedom and salvation, that God is looking at you and saying, you can't earn your way to perfection. So here's the free gift of Jesus Christ. Do you receive it? And if you receive it immediately, you're sealed as a 10, you are saved. That's some helpful conversation.

[A]

So good. It's so good. It's not by your works. It's the finished work of Jesus Christ that we are saved. And making sure that when you're sharing the gospel, there is that understanding. Because for a lot of people, they think it is fully based on their work, their efforts, their good morals. And, you know, oh, I give to these people and I do this, and I don't, you know, I try not to sin too much. And that's not how we get to heaven. It is by grace alone. It is in Jesus Christ. It is by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ alone that we get to heaven. And so making sure one, that we know that and two, that we're sharing that when we are sharing the gospel. But I think that's such a good. I think that's so great. Those are really, really helpful tools. And I love that you really highlighted questions. I think questions is a very good way to engage with someone that feels a little less accusatory or intimidating for someone that you're trying to share the gospel with. And so instead of, you know, just like, hey, do you believe in Jesus? Or. Or let me tell you about Jesus, or you need to believe in Jesus, or Jesus is the only way. Like, instead of doing that, just asking questions, like Grant said, hey, do you have a faith? Hey, how can I. How can I be praying for you? Hey, do you have a church here? Do you have good, you know, community around? Anything that could get you in the door, that could lead you down a conversation? Hey, what do you. What do you think about truth? What is truth to you? What. Like, whatever that question is that could be.

[B]

Be curious about people.

[A]

Be curious. Just ask questions. People, people like to feel seen. People like to feel, you know, pursued. And so no one's going to ever typically, like, reject a loving conversation. And that's how you can kind of get your foot into the door. And then through sharing your story and sharing, like maybe memorize one to two Bible verses that you share, whether it's Ephesians 2:8 through 9. Or Romans 9, 10, 9, 10. Or is it Romans 9, 10, 10?

[B]

9 through 10?

[A]

Yeah, 10, 9 through 10. There's lots of different verses that you can memorize, and finding a few like that is really, really helpful. But definitely starting with prayer. And so, again, practical steps. Pray. Pray for God to open your eyes and to allow you to cross paths with someone that you can share your faith with. And two, you gotta be bold. Like, when you feel the tug on your heart and you feel like your heart starts racing, and you're like, I know I need to share my faith. I know I need to share my faith. Like, you just gotta go for it. And sometimes it might be an epic fail. And it's like, oh, man, that was not the most pretty thing. And I don't know if that resulted in anything. And you may think that, and then God may do a work in their heart that you could not even imagine. And then sometimes it may be the most amazing conversation. And they're weeping and you're praying the salvations, the sinner's prayer with them. You know, like, you just never know how the conversation could go, but. But you got to have the courage and the boldness to. To go for it. And then three is just. Yeah, like, lead with questions. And those two questions that JP always points out are really, really helpful just for, like, a simple understanding. There can be so much confusion, and what do I say and what do I share? And it's just. You can make it really, really simple with those two questions. And so thank you for sharing all that. I thought this was super, super helpful.

[B]

Holy Spirit and sharing your faith. I think they're tied way more than we probably think. Yeah, I know they are. Like, the Holy Spirit empowers us to share our faith, and it's the power of the gospel that they're moved by. So which is the most important?

[A]

You can't help it. Like, when you have tasted and seen that the Lord is good, you can't help but share it with other people. Think about it. If you find this amazing recipe or you find this new restaurant or this new coffee shop, you're talking about it like you're talking about the things that have impacted you or that have opened your eyes or that have given you this amazing, great feeling and experience. You talk about it, you share it. And in the same way Christians are meant to talk about Jesus Christ, we're meant to share Jesus Christ with other people because we have tasted and seen that he alone is good, that he alone satisfies and that he is the only way to heaven. And so we want to share that with our brothers and sisters because we, we care about them. We care about their eternities. And so that is our mission as believers. And we didn't really know where this conversation was going to go. We didn't. We didn't really get into friendships or into necessarily people pleasing. We touched on it a little bit. I think people pleasing can often keep us from sharing our faith and can often keep us from going even deeper in our faith. We really care about. Maybe it's our parents or our church or our friends, you know, and how we look to them. Whether it's like raising our hands and worshiping or whether it's sharing our faith, we really can care about what other people think about us. And that keeps us from being who God's called us to be. And Galatians 1:10 talks about that you cannot be a servant of Christ and a people pleaser. You just can't. The two do not coexist. And so you are either choosing to fear God or fear man. You are choosing to please God or please man. You cannot do both. And so that is a struggle for me. That is a struggle for Grant. And it's something that we have to, as believers and as people, continue to fight off because we cannot. We've talked about this a lot, but, like, you cannot follow Jesus and, and walk out the calling that he has for you while trying to live comfortable and while living for the approval of people. You cannot. And so if you're constantly concerned about what other people think about you, and you're only doing it based off of, you know, their perception of you and their acceptance of you, then you're not truly living out the, you know, the gospel and who God has called you to be. And so we get it. It's a struggle, but it's not something to settle in. And so, anyways, this was great. This is a really long podcast and we're going to wrap up here, but I'm really thankful for this episode. Thank you for all that you shared. It was really good.

[B]

So glad to be here. This is awesome.

[A]

I love you.

[B]

I love you, too.

[A]

And we love you.

[B]

Yes. And I'm going to pray for everybody, please, to end this podcast off. Lord, I pray for everybody listening right now that they would know the Holy Spirit is the helper that's been sent. And Jesus, you said it is to our advantage that you go away. And so, Holy Spirit, thank you that you're here to lead us and guide Us, I pray that you make yourself more known to everybody listening right now.

[A]

Us.

[B]

You're not hiding, but you're here for us to guide and lead us. And so I pray you reveal yourself to the people listening that want more of you. God, I pray that we would be bold. And we know that boldness is from your spirit. And so we're asking for the boldness that we saw in the Book of Acts, in chapter four, that they were filled with the spirit, with all boldness. I pray that we would be bold to share our faith. I pray that there's somebody you put on the listener's mind right now. A friend, a high school friend, a parent, a sibling, a coworker, a boss, somebody that they've run into, a cousin. I pray that you put them on their hearts and they can't shake it, that they need to text them or call them and take them to lunch and tell them what you've done for them. Lord, I pray that we be bold to share our faith. I pray that this not just stay in our ears and our headphones, but, Father, that we not get caught up in the spiritual development as much as walking in our spiritual mission, which is to share what you've done for us. Give us that confidence. Give Grant, give. Give Maddie and me the confidence, the boldness to share our faith and give everybody listening the same confidence and boldness in Jesus. Mighty name. Amen.

[A]

Amen. Amen. Goodness, this was so good. I love you guys. We love you guys. We believe in you guys and we believe that God has more for you. We believe that every day is an opportunity to get more of God and to go deeper with him and to share more of Him. And so we're constantly growing. We're all on this journey together. There is no arrival point. And wherever you're at, whether you would consider yourself, you know, a brand new believer or whether you've been walking with Jesus for a really, really long time, I pray that this podcast was encouraging and helpful for you. If you have any questions, please dm if you have any thoughts or anything you want to share or how this podcast was encouraging or helpful to you, please share like we want to hear it. We want to know and just know that we are praying for you guys and we pray for that boldness and we pray that you would live on mission and that you would know that you do need to first receive it from him in order to give it to someone else. And so making sure you're getting that abide time regularly and. But then also walking in that boldness daily. And so we love you guys. And, yeah, we just, we're excited, we're excited to see what, what happens after this podcast. You guys are gonna all go out and share your faith.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

We love you all. And as always, be sure to stay you stay true. We love.