← Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
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- [00:00]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Stay True podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [00:21]
Jenny Allen
It's about time you have an easier, more efficient way to get caught up on the news. The Newsworthy breaks down the day's top stories in less than 15 minutes and and gives you some lighter conversation starters along the way. Search the Newsworthy wherever you're listening now and follow or subscribe to the Newsworthy today. Three Core Lies I am helpless, I am worthless and I'm unlovable.
- [00:40]
Madison Pruitt Trout
How do you balance the tension between this is what I feel, but this is what I know is true?
- [00:46]
Jenny Allen
Truth is a person. Truth is our savior. Truth is the word of God in its entirety. So what if truth is an actual place?
- [00:56]
Madison Pruitt Trout
How can we identify a generational lie or stronghold?
- [00:59]
Jenny Allen
Our parents, our forefathers, they affect us. It's not so much like they abused. So you're going to abuse. It's more likely that they have believed some lie that has caused them to be abusive. And that same idea and lie shapes your life.
- [01:15]
Madison Pruitt Trout
How do we overcome it? What does that actually mean and how do you do that?
- [01:19]
Jenny Allen
You're in massive bondage. I believe you've already been fighting this for a long time and I'm going to do it for you.
- [01:28]
Madison Pruitt Trout
What's up guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True Podcast. I'm your host Madison Pruitt Trout and we have on today's episode basically my co host, a regular at this point on the Stay True podcast because this is her third time on now and it only makes sense because she has been a voice not only for millions and not only has she impacted the this generation and this nation and this world, but she's impacted my life and she is a best selling author. She has wrote the book get out of youf Head. She's wrote the book Untangle youe Emotions and now her newest book is the Lie you Don't Know youw Believe. And I'm so excited for this book. She also is the host of Made for this Podcast and is the leader and visionary of Gather if Gathering. And I'm so excited to have Jenny Allen on the podcast. So Jenny, welcome back.
- [02:18]
Jenny Allen
So good to be here always.
- [02:19]
Madison Pruitt Trout
I was like having to like memorize that bio cause I was like you're so legit. That was so many.
- [02:23]
Jenny Allen
I was like, is she reading a teleprompter? That was so powerful.
- [02:27]
Madison Pruitt Trout
But also third time on now.
- [02:28]
Jenny Allen
I'm like, yeah, you got me.
- [02:29]
Madison Pruitt Trout
You know me, and I just love you. I'm so thankful that you're here. You're in Tennessee, because the last two, I think we did, we're in Dallas.
- [02:37]
Jenny Allen
Yes.
- [02:37]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Okay. Well, you're here.
- [02:38]
Jenny Allen
Feels good to be here.
- [02:39]
Madison Pruitt Trout
I've missed you.
- [02:40]
Jenny Allen
I've missed you.
- [02:41]
Madison Pruitt Trout
And I'm so excited about this book because you have helped me with this so much of, like, identifying lies, of fighting spiritual warfare, of walking in spiritual authority. And I remember even when we talked about, like, this book, like, you were
- [02:55]
Jenny Allen
working on this book, I told you,
- [02:56]
Madison Pruitt Trout
and I was like, what are we? What are you. Like, what are you thinking? And we were just, like, talking through it. But I told you, I was like, you have such an amazing voice for, like, spiritual authority. And so many people are looking for, like, we're just fighting in this generation. I think one, of course, lies in confusion, truth, wondering what's true, but also, like, how to fight back against a spirit of fear and how to walk in authority. Because we know, like, there's an enemy that's after us, but a lot of times that makes us want to, like, shrink back and run away and not, like, pick up our sword and fight. And you just do such a great job of that. And so I'm really excited to talk all about this, but I want you to tell them, like, why did you choose to write this book? And what led to the lie you don't know you believe?
- [03:39]
Jenny Allen
It came from a conversation I had with Kate, and she was sitting there kind of spiraling and thinking about her life and just struggles that she has. And specifically that she felt broken and she felt defective. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, this girl is anything but that. Like, she lights up a room, everybody loves her. She's full of Jesus. Like, she's amazing. She's gifted photographer, makes a killing doing it, married a great guy. Like, if she feels this way, what is wrong with the world? And then when I kind of went in to kind of say, like, are you crazy? She's like, you're my mom. You have to feel that way. And in that moment, I was like, oh, my gosh. She's defending it, like, it's true. She thinks it's true. And everything in me just broke for all of us. Because the reality is the same lie she believes now. There's more than one you can believe. But the same One she believes is the one I have struggled with my whole life. And so to see that happen, where it was contagious because I wasn't critical of her, we didn't raise her critically. Like, we didn't, we weren't hard on her. We never cared like, about their grades or what, how they did with sports. Like, we just, we weren't high pressure parents when it comes to that kind of thing. And so I'm like, where did this come from? Like you, we didn't send you those messages. We've always thought you're the greatest thing that ever hit the earth. So we. Where did it come from? And I really think it came from watching me live. I don't think it came from my voice. I don't think it came from things I was saying to her. I think it came from watching what I cared about. And yeah, it made me angry. So that was really when I decided I really want to study where these lies are coming from. Do we all have a core lie? Is this generationally handed down to us? Is this, you know, is this kind of universal where we all kind of fight? Because I kept going to counseling and my counselor was like, hey, Jenny. He'd kind of giggle and he'd be like, yeah, that's the same thing, different story, different verse that you've brought to me for years now. I'm like, no, it's not. It's not the same thing. He's like, same thing. And then he, of course we work it out. And I'm like, same thing. And he's like, don't worry, you'll be 80 and you'll probably be still, you know, wrestling with the same thing. And that made me angry. I was like, it doesn't have to be that way, does it? Like, couldn't it be different? And. And yeah, that's kind of what sent me on the research that's so wild.
- [06:00]
Madison Pruitt Trout
So what did you discover? And like, do we all have a core lie? And is it generational? What was your. What did the research say?
- [06:06]
Jenny Allen
Well, so it was interesting, the science. Actually. There wasn't a lot on there being one core lie. There was a lot on three core lies that really set the premise for the book. I am helpless, I am worthless and I'm unlovable. That most humans believe these lies at different points. But I have absolutely found, just in my own personal research that almost everybody can identify more with one than the others. I think we all, at different times feel helpless. But a lot of people that have suffered abuse or something really traumatic as a child, like their parent getting cancer. A lot of those people are the ones saying, I feel helpless. So we know that there is, you know, there's research that at a certain point you believe something to be true. Like, I can't control my circumstances. And let's be real, at some point and at some points in life that is true, right? Like we all, you know, all of these, all of these lies have a little bit of truth to them. They all have just enough to. Which the enemy does really well, right? Like he did it in the garden. He puts just enough truth in it that you believe it. And so. And then he will reinforce it with evidence. So you'll have a parent that is constantly critical of you, or you'll have circumstances that point to, yes, see, you are helpless or you are unlovable. And so you'll see all of these things start to happen. And all of a sudden you find yourself decades later and you're still battling the same thing you were in middle school, you know, at 12 years old.
- [07:42]
Madison Pruitt Trout
So crazy.
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Jenny Allen
So that's what made me angry and made me want to write. This is just. We've all believed stories that have been told to us strategically, systematically, all our lives, and I want to disrupt those. And at least at a very minimum, that people would walk away from the book and go, huh, maybe this thought pattern that I've had for decades in my mind that I don't measure up, that I, that I, that I am, you know, unlovable. Maybe these thought patterns would really be interrupted and at least people would consider maybe it's not true.
- [08:20]
Madison Pruitt Trout
That's so good because it's so true. Like, I think about the patterns, anxieties, feelings I've carried, like, throughout my life, and just like how it keeps coming. It'll come back to like one of those three, like one of those core kind of relating to that and circling about. It's like one of my first memories of that is like middle school, but how the enemy will still use it in a different way. Like it'll be like dressed up in a different outfit, but it's still the same feeling. And like, you know, that rejection feeling for me personally, that will just like look a little bit different. And so it's so crazy. Like for you, what would you say? Because I imagine that some people even listening to this are like, okay, but like Maddie and Jenny, like, like Jenny, you are, you know, I mean, Maddie just listed it, you know, you're a best selling author, you're beautiful, you have an amazing Family, like, you're successful, you have a great husband, like, what? How could you have a lie? And I think one of the biggest lies we struggle with, that the enemy hits us with on top of those three is like, you're the only one. Like no one else is struggling with that.
- [09:24]
Jenny Allen
I almost added a fourth and wrote a whole chapter on it. That you're alone, that it's just you. I think that's the lie under all of them that keeps us from ever sharing it, that keeps us from ever saying out loud what we struggle with. And so I hope that's that everybody listening feels like, gosh, this is common to man, this is human to just struggle with these lies. And so for me, I think about, you know, I was 12 years old and I've told this story in other books as well. It was such a life changing moment and it was so inconsequential, seemingly. I mean, my dad pulled me on his lap. We were talking about middle school. I was headed into middle school, you know, and he was just listing like comments of, you know, grades and, and homecoming and you know, are you going to make cheerleading? And all these things. And he was just going through like he's not a 12 year old girl. He's just trying his best to like talk to me about life and things I'm thinking about. Well, I heard it as a list and I heard it as I've got to hit these things. And so I enter middle school at that age and I strap on just to my life that at that point was pretty simple and happy and I was a deep little kid. Like I was pretty free. I strap on to my life like these expectations that I've got to hit and it feels impossible to take them off. And learning to take them off is the work of my life. Like to live free and to not live for what I think the world wants from me is. I think I am going to be fighting that for the rest of my life. And so mine was worthless. That I feel like I have to hit a mark. It's always out there. I'm trying to get it. I'm running, I'm running. And so yeah, that's the one that I just have to be careful and notice really quickly when I'm striving. And you know, I wonder, I mean, I've wondered with God a lot lately, like, am I going to get to heaven? And a lot of what I did for you, I did out of my woundedness, like out of just thinking that you wanted me to do more and More. And that's just super vulnerable because I'm still like processing that and asking that. But that's a new question for me. And I think that's a beautiful question because it's freeing. It's like, maybe I don't have to do blank, you know. And I have so felt the Lord's kindness toward me because I remember even when I felt like I was supposed to do gather, which was, you know, we gathered the whole global church around the world. We had six locations. It was a huge, huge undertaking and 86 languages. I mean, it was insane huge. And I remember before, it was so sweet, before I ever started doing anything for that. But the Lord had put that dream in my heart. He. I remember him kind of whispering the way he does. You know, we don't hear his voice, but you know, he's saying something to you. You don't have to do it. And that was a new way of thinking for me. It was just. It was freeing. It's like, I love you whether you do this or not. Like, I'm issuing you an invitation into something, but you don't have to do it. And I'm not going to be disappointed if you don't. And I just so appreciate that was a new mindset for me that I'm not in this martyr that's just completely bleeding out for God because I think I have to hit some bar, you know.
- [12:48]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Before we get started today, I have an exciting announcement here on Stay True podcast. I am introducing an additional episode each week.
- [12:57]
Jenny Allen
Woo.
- [12:57]
Madison Pruitt Trout
I'm so excited. So you guys can check back every Thursday morning for episodes from me or Grant or us together. And it will be like our own video mini Bible study time together. I'm so, so excited. We will study and read scripture. We will spend time in prayer. And I want you to think of these episodes as this quick reset for your heart and your mind that will just set you up for an amazing day. You will grow deeper in your love and knowledge for the word of God. We will spend time together in prayer and reflection. And these shorter episodes we will be addressing lies we hear questions we carry the weights we all feel and what God actually says about it all. You these will be short and simple and really intentional episodes. Something you can listen to on your way to work while you're getting ready or just when you need a peaceful moment in the middle of the day. Cause I know I need that too. And my heart is that these Thursday episodes become a consistent place that you can come to be grounded, encouraged and reminded of what's true. And now my Monday episodes are typically interviews with amazing guests. But I'm so excited to now have these Thursday episodes, to have time to just open the word and grow in the truth to together. I'll see y' all Thursday morning. That's so good. And I, you know, you know me, so I so resonate with all. I mean, that's for sure. The lie that I would resonate with the most is I'm worthless. And I think so much of it is, whether it's something that a parent said or just the. The culture that we live in where so much of our worth and identity is tied to what we do and what we produce and. And being seen by others and then validating it. It's like we place so much of our value in the hands of other people.
- [14:31]
Jenny Allen
Yeah.
- [14:32]
Madison Pruitt Trout
And I know for me, you know, whether it was, like, me getting cheated on or, like, hard breakups in the past, or same thing of just, like, striving, my dad being my coach, you know, being very competitive in sports, like, wanting to, you know, find that. That value, that identity in awards and in relationships and in those things and letting that be my worth. And it's just. It's so crazy how. Yeah. Like, if you. If you don't catch it, it will just, like, not only will that be a. And this is kind of what I want to talk about really quick for a second, because I'm curious your thoughts on, like, it's almost like that's, like, the foundation lie, but then it can spiral into all of these other, like, things and affect all of these other things.
- [15:13]
Jenny Allen
Oh, it affects everything.
- [15:14]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Yeah.
- [15:14]
Jenny Allen
I mean, somebody said, like, do you think people will want to do this work? I was like, I think they will want to be free of things that are affecting every part of their life. Like, when you think of your relationships, if you believe. And again, it's called the lie. You don't know you believe for a reason, because you don't notice it. You've been thinking it since you were possibly six years old. So it's just in your brain, and it's been there so long, it's like oxygen to you. You don't think about it, but you notice insecurity in yourself and you wish it wasn't there. And you notice that you keep hurting people and you don't know why, or you notice that you keep looking for something, you keep striving for something, and you can't seem to hit it. Even when you hit what you thought would make you feel Better, you don't feel better. So when you notice all of that as part of the way that you're functioning and living, that's exhausting. And it's not helping your relationships, it's not helping your peace. It's not, you know, it's just a striving that can't be satisfied. And so, you know, I think about, you know, ultimately underneath these lies are worse lies. And it's that I could be in control. I could make everybody like me or love me. I could possibly hit a mark finally and measure up right. Like, that's a scary. That's actually a scarier set of lies. And that is what is driving us, is we think we can hit the mark, whatever the mark is. We think we can finally get control. We think we can finally quit feeling helpless because our lives work out this way that we built in a scrapbook in our minds. And we figure it out and it's gonna work this way. And if it doesn't, I'm not gonna be okay. So it's gonna work this way, you know, and so when you really take it all apart, it is affecting everything about you. And more than anything, and where I hope people are motivated is their joy. You know, it's really hard to have joy when you live with a low grade fever that is telling you you are worthless. That is really hard to have joy. And so, you know, I noticed, even like on my best days of ministry, I noticed that there would just almost right when I would finish, there would be this tinge of like, that was a B plus.
- [17:31]
Madison Pruitt Trout
I so resonate with everything you're saying.
- [17:33]
Jenny Allen
I would. I would have seen people come forward for the gospel. I would have baptized people. I would have. It would have been like anyone in the room was like the spirit of God moved. And I would finish and I'd be thinking about that performance was blank, as if it was even a performance. I mean, and I'm just saying that super vulnerably that this is how it gets. This is how the Enemy works. Like, we think it's the language of God. We think that we are supposed to judge ourselves and think rightly about ourselves and look in the mirror and all this. And we have turned that into this bar that is never reachable and not and not given by God. Like, all he's saying is surrender and obey. Like, that's what he wants of us. And honestly, like, if we're giving ourself grades, let's grade on that. Like, let's just grade on, like how obedient am I. And have I surrendered my life? Which also means, have I surrendered ever keeping control of my life? Have I surrendered being liked and loved by everybody? Have I surrendered mattering in this world? You know? And so these are really, like, little gods that are driving these lies.
- [18:43]
Madison Pruitt Trout
So true.
- [18:43]
Jenny Allen
And so when you. When you kill the gods and you go, I just don't care about that anymore. Like, that's not why I'm living anymore. I'm not living for the grade. It was funny. My counselor, we were talking about heaven, and I said, there will be a grade. You know, Like, I was defending my grade, thinking. And he was like, okay, let's talk about that. You know, judgment. We're getting there. And even those that are saved are going to look back at their lives. And we've all kind of been taught this, and there's certainly scripture that hints at that. And in our very finite understanding, we've all pictured that being a teacher meeting. And the teacher's going to report on how we did, you know? And he was like, does that sound like God? And I was like, not really, but I think it is. Because look at the talents. You know, the talents. Some people performed well and some people performed poorly. He was like, what if. What if you've read all of this wrong? He was like, let's just take a look at the talents. What was the problem? The problem was how they viewed the master. The problem wasn't that that they produced. The problem was that they thought the master. They were afraid of the master and that he was gonna punish them, so they hid it. It wasn't about their production. Cause he can produce out of thin air. Like, he doesn't need production from us. It's like, what is happening right now? My brain hurts.
- [20:05]
Madison Pruitt Trout
No, that's crazy. I haven't heard of that interpretation of the talents. Cause that's one that I always go back to, that. I think if you have a wrong view and interpretation of that passage in scripture, it can drive you.
- [20:15]
Jenny Allen
I kept it as my. As my justification to live the way I was living. I was like, God cares, and he does care. Don't get me wrong. I mean, one thing I talk about in the book is when we encounter these things, there's really two ways we can go. We can totally go to striving, and we've got to hit the mark. Or we can go to apathy and resignation and be like, well, we can't hit the mark, so screw that. And, like, I'm out, you know? And it's neither of those Again, it's like this way with God, of walking with him and trusting him and, and needing Him. And these lies, these thoughts, these fears are invitations to go. God, help me with this. Like, I don't know what to do, but I don't want to live this way anymore. I don't. I don't want to keep trying to strive and hit this mark. I'm just too tired. And, you know, he's got a different way. And, you know, I think about. I think about the, the talents. And then let me tell you the other one. So the other passage is in. I believe it's in Corinthians that talks about kind of a second judgment that we've all studied and know a lot about and always pictured kind of as a report card of our life, Right? And I don't know if this is true or not, but I think it makes the point that maybe we're justifying it wrongly. And he said, what if that second, like, when you're looking back at your life with God in heaven in that moment, that it's a conversation of, like, how did that feel? What happened? Kind of a reconciling of what's happened before you enter eternity. Because all of that is going to be with you, like your life. You're going to remember it all, you're going to feel it all. Like, wouldn't it be more like God and Jesus to say, let's look at this together before you go into eternity and we make sense of it. Like, oh, okay, so you didn't obey me these years because you were afraid. I get that. Let's talk about that and let's work through that. And I was like, that is so beautiful. Again, I have no idea theologically how that stacks up, but it's a cool
- [22:12]
Madison Pruitt Trout
way to think about. Cause it does flip it on its head of like, I have to earn God's love and I have to work my way to receive his pleasure, for him to be pleased with me, for him to be proud of me. Like, I know for me, I can definitely get in that mindset of like, I gotta do more, I gotta be more. I gotta work harder for him to be proud of me.
- [22:33]
Jenny Allen
And.
- [22:33]
Madison Pruitt Trout
And for me, the passage that so resonated is the story of Mary and Martha, right? Of just like, man, I'm so often Martha. And he's like, Martha, you're anxious about many things. You're focused on all the wrong things. Like, Mary is making it all about me. She's just worshiping at my feet. She's Just adorning me. She's just like sitting with me. And so I've talked a lot about on the podcast, like, how we can get, you know, caught up in this world of like, doing for God rather than just like being with him and just like sitting in his presence and how it's from that place. Like you said, like, you don't just then like, come up with this mindset of like, okay, God loves me, I can't earn his, like, proudness, so I'm just gonna sit back and like, live selfishly and comfortably and like be apathetic. It's like, no, now that you've received from him, like, go out and like live from that place of love.
- [23:17]
Jenny Allen
From it, from it, not for it, right? You're not fighting for it. You're living out of that acceptance and love and. And I really do believe we'll be surprised when we get to heaven, that we. I just can't imagine a moment with God. What I do think is true of what my friend said was, wouldn't it be more like God that whatever you experience the minute you get to heaven doesn't produce shame and guilt, that it produces freedom and joy and healing and peace. And I was like, that does sound like God. And again, I don't think our problem is this. Some other people's are right, but that they have shut down and they aren't engaged anymore because they just feel like they can't win. But I would say the source of both comes from the same place. I really do. I think when you shut down and you're resigned, it's just the other side of that same coin. It's just I can't hit the mark, so I'm not going to try. And so I've tried to be loved and accepted, but I can't. So I'm out. I'm going to be isolated, I'm going to live alone or I can't control my life. And so I'm going to give up, you know, And I just think each of these has kind of two dark sides to it that we have to be careful about.
- [24:26]
Madison Pruitt Trout
You guys know we talk a lot on this podcast about purpose and really seeking the path God has for our lives. And when it comes to education, I truly believe that path should lead to something meaningful. That's one of the reasons I love Grand Canyon University. GCU is a private, non profit Christian university located in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona. And they are passionate about making education an affordable path forward for students who want to grow in their faith and in their calling. What I really love about GCU is that they are grounded in Christian truth and focused on equipping the next generation to lead with integrity and serve with purpose, which is something I know so many of you care about too. And they've actually kept tuition at the same rate on their traditional campus for 17 years. Plus in 2025 alone, they awarded over $404 million in institutional scholarships. So whether you're looking to earn your degree on campus or online, you can pursue your purpose at gcu, Private Christian affordable nonprofit. Visit GCU to learn more. Stay True podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. You do such a good job of being so real and down to earth while also walking in this like boldness and spiritual authority. How do you balance the tension between this is what I feel, but this is what I know is true Because I think so often we feel like man, I feel deeply unlovable. I feel so worthless. I feel beyond helpless. And we don't know how to fight that tension with what's true. Or maybe we have a concept and knowledge of what's true, but we don't know how to actually receive it and walk in it. So what is that? That tension and dance with you?
- [26:24]
Jenny Allen
So there's a beautiful verse that I know you've heard that you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free. And that is from Scripture and it's in John and I want to start there because I think we think truth is a verse. So you believe a lie. What is the true verse? And again that that works. That's helpful. It's always Scripture never returns void. It's always helpful. But I think a lot of Christians have been slapping a verse on it for a long time and they don't feel like anything changes. And so let me expand what I believe that verse means and what the word truth means. To answer your question, Truth is a person. Truth is our Savior. Truth is the story and work of God on earth. Truth is the word of God in its entirety. So what if truth is an actual place that you can go, not just a verse that you keep hitting yourself over the head with almost with shame of like why can't I believe this? Why can't I get this just like this kingdom in this world is a place that we breathe its oxygen. There's a prince of this place. We answer to his demands here. We, we have to pay with his, you know, commodities and play with his rules here. Just like this world is a real place, the kingdom of God is a real place with a king and a different set of rules and altogether different, different air oxygen. And so my plea in this book is, let me take you to this place. Like truth is a place, it's a person in a place. And when you go to that place, you don't have to play this game anymore. So in the, the rules of, of the world, you actually need to measure up. You, you got to. And the fact that you feel that way is accurate and true. Like you need to hit the grades, you need to get the job, you need to pay the bills, you need to be important, you need to be famous, you need to matter. People need to know who your name, people need to. All of that is true in this kingdom. And you can't really build a story. If you told me to write this book for unbelievers, I don't have an answer for you because that is the game. And, and those are the rules. And you better show up and play. And if you don't, you're just checked out and depressed and on the sidelines unless there's another kingdom and the rules are different. And then the rules over here are isolation, performance and condemnation. And you're going to feel it the whole time. You live over here. And I don't even care if you hit the mark, you're still going to feel it, right? And so that was my prayer. As I approached this, I was like, what is truth? Because truth for me, like I've memorized the verses like I was an awanas kid. I can recite to you like half the Bible. I know the verses, but I still was fighting the lie. And for me, like, so let me give you an example. Like, let me show you how it works for me. So it's book launch week, right? Like I'm releasing this book into the world. I have been blessed to do well. My last few books have done really well and hit New York Times. Three books. So I'm approaching now my fourth and you can imagine the drumbeat of pressure that I feel. And my little 12 year old self sitting on my dad's lap shows right up, right? Like I have to hit the mark and if I don't, I'm going, what? What's going to happen? I don't know. But I feel anxiety, I feel nervous. When I think about it, I. I'm so scared that I won't. I feel like I probably won't because, you know, I just don't think this book's good enough or I don't, whatever. So there's this narrative playing in my head that I'm not enough, my work isn't enough, nothing's enough. And so I'll go there. And then I actually began with a friend and I called the friend. I said, I think I'm living out of my lie. Releasing a book about lies.
- [30:37]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Crazy how that happens, huh?
- [30:39]
Jenny Allen
Right? Help me. She said, what are you worried about? I'm so shallow. I mean, it's embarrassing to say. I'm embarrassed right now saying it, that I would care about this because I'm like, I care about souls, I care about the kingdom, I care about Jesus. That is all true. And a part of me, 12 year old part of me really cares that people like me and accept me and that I measure up. And so I was like, I'm worried that this book isn't going to hit New York Times. And she starts laughing and she says this, she says, ginny, if you hit New York Times, I'm going to be mad at you. She was like, I'm not even going to like you anymore. I'm so sick of you hitting New York Times. That's just not even relatable. Like. And then I'm rolling, laughing. She's rolling, laughing. And what she means, because this friend of mine, she's in ministry, she loves Jesus with all her heart. She doesn't mean she's not going to like me. She means this is a stupid game. We don't care about this game, Jenny. This isn't our game. Like our game is souls. Our game is a girl that I got to meet this week and talk to her about this subject who starts crying in front of her friends and says, the lie I've always believed is that my dad loves my sister more than me. It was so vulnerable and I can't believe. I don't think she'd ever said it out loud. My game is loving her, being with her, giving her hope. Like that's my game. Like the souls of people. Like that's where I live, that's what I want to be about. That's where I want to breathe. And the doorway to that is just saying, I'm not going to play this anymore. And so I get to, in my own mind, lay that down. I may not hit the mark. Maybe I do. But either way, like Paul was like, everything I've gained, I count as loss. Everything that I've lost, I could care less about. Like, I'm in this for the winning of souls. And so stay true.
- [32:19]
Madison Pruitt Trout
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- [32:39]
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- [32:54]
Jenny Allen
I think this is all an invitation. So when I feel that way, I have an invitation to two things immediately. I have an invitation to share it with people that love me. And I have an invitation to go back to truth, to the place of truth, which is with my God. Who says, I don't care about that? That's just not how we play over here, girl. But I don't picture him shaming me. I picture him like, baby girl, take that off. You don't have to live with that. Let's try a different way. And we exhale, you go, I like it over here. And eventually you like it over here so much that you stay and you stay longer and it's still there. It's not that you never feel the world because the world's so loud, but you just find such a home over here that you just don't even want. You don't want to leave it. And, you know, over here, like, there's grace and peace and connection and. And joy and all the things we crave.
- [33:47]
Madison Pruitt Trout
You know, that's so good because so often we are carrying things that we were not designed to carry. Like, we're carrying things that we're not made to carry. And we're wondering why we feel so weighed down, why we feel so restless, why we feel in this constant cycle of, like, not feeling good enough and not. And it's like, we're carrying the lies, we're carrying the shame, we're carrying the performance. And it's just, wow. Like, I think about my own life and it's the same story. And it's like, you know, Grant has lovingly reminded me so often that Matthew 11:28 30 applies to me, too. He said, you can actually receive rest for your soul. You know that that verse applies to you, right? And I'm like, man, you're right. Like, I don't actually have to hold onto control. I don't actually have to keep living out this lie. I can choose to let it go. Like, I can choose to run to truth. And I love that you explained truth like that. I've never even like heard it explained that way. And I think that it is so true that often when we hear about truth or when we read that first John 8:32, we think immediately that it's only pertaining to finding a verse in scripture, to whatever you're struggling with, finding a verse that combats that and replacing it with that verse. And that is so helpful 100%. And I, I talk about on the podcast all the time. Like, memorize scripture, meditate on it, say it over yourself, speak it out loud when you're feeling that way and those lies come up. And like I there for sure been moments where it's like, you know, panic attack moments or anxious moments with Grant or I, or, you know, whatever's going on. And it's like, okay, I need more than just like words on a page. Like, I need the person in place of Jesus Christ. Like, I need to run into his loving arms right now. I need him to like speak identity over me right now. I need him to show me what his kingdom is all about and not what I've come up with in my own head, which is like, Maddie's gotta be good enough and work her way up. It's like, that's the whole gospel is Jesus, like, you can't work your way up to me. That's why I'm coming here. That's every other religion. But like, that's what's so cool about Christianity is he's like, no, no, like, you can't come up here like, I'm coming to you.
- [35:44]
Jenny Allen
I heard this analogy at some point. I can't remember where, but it was, it was. You wouldn't ever get the instruction manual to riding a bike and just sit there and read the manual. You go ride the bike, but you go to the manual every time you need to know anything about the bike. Does that make sense? And I love that because I'm like, the end game of the Bible is a person and he is, he is the point, you know, and so I think it's. It's just remembering what it's for. And, and it's not just the end game is not the Bible. The end game is not truth. The end game is him. And so, but we can't know him and we can't know how to walk with him unless we know the Bible. And so it's just remembering its purpose. And I mean, again, truth is the Bible. Like there's. We're not confused on that point.
- [36:35]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Right, right.
- [36:36]
Jenny Allen
It's just that the truth we're actually craving is revealed to us through the Bible, which is Jesus.
- [36:43]
Madison Pruitt Trout
It's so relational because we can make it, you know, transactional, we can make it performance based, we can make it metrics. You know, it's like, and I love, Jesus says that, like, I have not come to do away with the law. Like, I'm the fulfillment of the law, I've come to fulfill the law. And Jesus says in John 14:6, like, I am the way, the truth and the life. Like, he's like, it's me. It's what you're saying, it's me. Like, it's so relational.
- [37:04]
Jenny Allen
So cute. I just think too, like when I watch the Chosen, I'm always. I love how Jonathan Roumie, like, you know, depicts Jesus in that. I think the world does. And I just feel like he's just living, like watching us figure it out. Like, watching us kind of like bumble around and watching us kind of like not get it quite right, but almost right, you know, and he just always smiles in that show and I just love that. Like he, you know, the guys come up and say, I want to be at your right hand. And he's like, do, you know, do you, you know, you want to pay that price? Yeah, you know, he's just, I just think he's so much more patient with us than we can possibly imagine. And so I just think of this episode and I think of, you know, I think of a college girl listening right now that is just like, what if I'm believing a lie, I want to know what it is and I need to get rid of it and I have to fight it and I have to beat it back. And I just picture that frantic feeling we all feel sometimes. And I just want to say, baby girl, he has you, he knows you, he loves you, he's patient with you, and you are gonna figure it out. You know why? Because he promised that you are going to. He's gonna work all things together for your good. And he promised that he's working you together for good. Like he's, he's making you holy and perfect as we're going. And so, you know, I'm not that surprised when my 15 year old son, who's now 17, is a complete idiot. I'm like, yeah, it's not who you're gonna be. It's just where we are today, you know? And so I have grace for that. And I think I pray that people feel that today. Just like a ton of deep breath.
- [38:44]
Madison Pruitt Trout
I'm so glad you said that, because when I. When we first started talking on the podcast about just like, spiritual authority and walking in that and how so much of this generation is feeling the weight of fear or not measuring up. And so it's like you hear something like, you know, there's a lie that you have to fight, or there's an enemy that's after. It can make you feel so overwhelmed or so afraid. Like, okay, well, what do I need to do to, like, get rid of it? Or, like, okay, well, now I'm, like, afraid. There's this energy. It's gotta be the right formula, it's gotta be the right strategy. It's gotta look the right way. And I love that you're saying that because I've talked about this often with friends and even with grant of just like man, there's such a. And I want to hear from you on that because, like, the Lord's voice is never one of shame or condemnation. And we're also told in scripture that his spirit is not one of fear. Yet what we so feel often is, like, shame and fear of, like man. Okay, well, I gotta, like, do all the right things and I've gotta, like, figure out the right formula and prayer and have the right strategy so that I can, like, you know, be. What would you say is the answer of walking in true spiritual authority to where we're not giving in to the shame or the fear and in a way where we can overcome the lie in a way of, like, authority and in the way that God has called us to.
- [40:01]
Jenny Allen
So I'll use my life example. I'm sure you've probably heard me share about this, so forgive me if you have, but I feel like the last few years of my life, I've been living in Narnia. I am riding a lion, and I don't know where we're going. And it's the best adventure ever. And the most unbelievable miracles are happening all around me. People are getting saved. People are. People are repenting. People are giving their life. There's revival happening. It's so beautiful. And not just revival like mass like you might see on Instagram, but, like, this girl this last week was an atheist her entire life. And her husband had prayed forever that she would be saved. And like, that day, she trusted Jesus and got baptized. You know, miracles like that, like that, you just. You don't understand. You don't even know like how that happened in the room, you know, apart from the Holy Spirit. And so I live in that world, you know, it's just fun. And I, I can't believe everything I get to see and everything I get to do. And there's a lot of monsters and witches and I guess to answer your question, like that authority doesn't come from, you know, I'm just Lucy, I just saddled up. Like, I'm not actually extra anything. Like I, I, I. The only thing I've done is just said, I'll go with you. Wherever you go, I'll go. And I think, you know, when you think of God's kingdom and Narnia and living that way and living in that, you know, place of just surrender and like, I'm going where you go. Yeah, it's really fun. It's not easy, it's super costly, but you want more of that. And I just think authority comes from the same place freedom comes from. It's relationship. Like when I get up, this happened this past week. I was at Southeastern University, and I'm about to go up to speak. And the spirit in the room was so strong, I felt like I couldn't even stand up. It was so strong. I was like, it was the only other time I've ever felt. It was actually at Asbury, where you physically feel like 100 pounds heavier than you are because you can't. I couldn't sing. I couldn't do anything. I just sat there and I. And the Lord, I'm like, lord, what is happening in this room? And he was like, I'm about to pour out my spirit on this room so that this room will pour out my spirit to the ends of the earth. That's what he told me. I was like, okay, that's, that's a lot. I was like, but I feel it. I believe you because I could feel his presence. And I said, so what do you want me to do? And he was like, I want you to tell them this. And I want you to teach on missions. Like, I basically want you to tell them to go to the ends of the earth. Now I'm giving this example. I know a lot of people are going, did he really say that? How does Jenny know it's his voice? Guys, super candidly, I don't. Like, I'm sitting there going, is this his voice? I'm about to go up and make a fool of myself. This isn't a message I've ever taught before. This isn't one I prepared. It definitely is in my heart, but it is not a message I had loaded on my iPad I could flip over to. Okay, so this is a risk for me. And I'm asking the same question. Like, how do I know if this is God? Like, I have a good message that I prepared for this room, and you don't, totally. But I had to try. Like, I had to see. And so authority. So then I go up and, I mean, I'm telling you, girl, like, that was a sermon that I had authority. Like, I went and I preached with authority. I called the room two things. I've never called the room. And so if you're watching me in that moment, you're like, that is a woman who lives with spiritual authority. And I would say I just listen to God. Like, I don't move very often without going, what do you want me to do? And then he tells me. And again, the best image I have is just, I'm on a lion's back and we're running through and crazy things are happening, but I'm just doing what he says, and I'm sticking with him. And so my authority comes from a relationship. It doesn't come from a competency. It doesn't come from a giftedness. It comes from a relationship. And that is the place you find everything. The problem is we want to bypass the relationship and get it some other way because we feel shame, because we feel afraid, because we don't want to sit with Jesus and. Or we don't know if it's his voice or it's unknown or scary or maybe theologically, we don't even know if we agree with that. And I would just say you can't skip it. Like, it's the point. It's the thing.
- [44:23]
Madison Pruitt Trout
It's everything.
- [44:23]
Jenny Allen
It's everything.
- [44:24]
Madison Pruitt Trout
It's so good. Authority comes from relationship. Because I think about. You know, for me, people have said very similar things of, like, when I get up and see, they're like, man, like, you teach with so much authority. And I'm like, man, it's not even. I don't even know that. I feel that. I just know, for me, so much of that is born and comes from the time I spend with him in the prayer closet. And I'm, like, on my knees and on my face, and I'm praying more about those that I'm ministering to and encouraging and sharing Scripture with than I'm trying to craft this, like, eloquent, perfect message.
- [44:58]
Jenny Allen
Amen.
- [44:59]
Madison Pruitt Trout
And I think if we're so focused on the gift and the charisma. And instead of God and the way that he can move and save souls and bring healing and deliverance and freedom to those who are going to have the courage to confess and go to the ends of the earth and share the good news, it's like, man, we can get so even in this whole Christian world and influencer game and wanting to be famous for Jesus. It's like you can forget what it's all about. And I love that you're just like, man, it all comes back to truth. The person in the place of truth, like, being in the quiet places with him. And like, anything good is going to come from that. Anything impactful, anything lasting, anything that carries authority, anything that carries anointing, is all going to come from that intimate, hidden, real relationship with Jesus.
- [45:45]
Jenny Allen
I mean, Paul's like, I don't come to you with eloquent speech. I come to you with trembling. I'm thinking he wasn't impressive. Like, he wasn't sitting there being the best at something. But his words. We cling to his words have sustained the church since his life. And so this is the beauty of. The beauty of walking with God is that everybody gets to do it. Like, you don't have to be special. You don't have to. It's not just for the. The elite. It's like you get to saddle up and ride a lion today. It's interesting. I studied how to ride lions because this was so deeply embedded in my experience right now.
- [46:26]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Like, I can literally ride.
- [46:28]
Jenny Allen
You can. So if you go to YouTube, you can find a guy and he rides lions and it. And when you watch it, you're like, what on earth. He literally throws. Just like you'd picture. Throws his leg over it and he rides it and he wrestles with it, and he's. And there's several that he rides. You see him ride more than one. And so I'm researching, like, okay, how do you do that? Guess how. I mean, guess for real. How does he do it?
- [46:51]
Madison Pruitt Trout
I really actually don't know.
- [46:52]
Jenny Allen
So, I mean, it could be that he feeds the lion well before. It could be that he, you know, he is. Knows exactly what he's doing. Knows, like, knows how not to get bitten. No. He helped raise these lions. He has a relationship with the lions.
- [47:08]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Wow.
- [47:09]
Jenny Allen
And that's it. Like, he knows these lions and the lions know him, and it just simplifies everything down.
- [47:17]
Madison Pruitt Trout
That's crazy.
- [47:18]
Jenny Allen
I know. Wow. And so that's what we're gonna do. Like, and anybody can do it. Anybody can work.
- [47:25]
Madison Pruitt Trout
That's the takeaway from this episode. Ride a lion. Ride the line. Ride the line, right? Ride the lion, man. That's so good. Because he. Yeah, he is where the access is. He's where the power is. He's where the authority is, and everything we're looking for is in him. I want to end our time just quickly hitting on something we. We talked about briefly at the beginning. You talk about it in your book, you've talked about on your podcast. But I. I think something that isn't talked about enough is the generational lies and the things that are passed down from grandparents, from parents, from things that we either see modeled, from things that are spoken over us, from things that maybe we're just fully unaware of, and it's just happens to be our same stronghold and struggle. How can we identify a generational lie or stronghold that our parents had or our grandparents had, and how do we overcome it?
- [48:15]
Jenny Allen
So, first of all, I didn't know if I believed in generational sin prior to this project. It was one of the things that kind of drew me in. I always like to take on a project that I'm curious about. Like, I don't know exactly where it's going to go. And this one had a lot of that because I didn't know if everybody had a core life. I didn't know if. If I had passed this down to my daughter. I didn't know, you know, I didn't know a lot of things about the subject. And that intrigued me. And so when I did the research on generational sin, it is undeniable. And I would be super curious if somebody wants to reach out to me that has done the work and does not believe in it. Find me. We are each held accountable for our lives. So we. But we. I mean, even just the fall is inherently generational. A generational curse, right? Like, it is just built in from Genesis to revelation that our parents, our forefathers, they affect us. And that I think understanding lies is so helpful because it's not just sin. So just because your parents, quote, sinned, so maybe was an alcoholic, or just because your parent was, you know, abusive, you are still. You get your own life, right? Like, you don't have to go in their way. And we all know that to be true. But I think what helps me about lies being passed down is the idea that we're watching someone live and we're seeing what they believe, and that's building our worldview all through our childhood. So I think that's actually a more helpful understanding of generational sin and that it's not so much like they abused. So you're gonna abuse. It's more likely that they have believed some lie that has caused them to be abusive. And that same idea and lie shapes your life. And this is why it's so important we break this stuff. So, you know, I always say, you know, people always ask me, like, well, is it spiritual? And I'm like, yes. Is it physical? Maybe. Is it emotional? Yes. Is it relational? Yes. So we know we've got to break this off on several levels. So, yes, there's a spiritual component. And it's so simple. You just pray and renounce any evil that has been in your family that you have picked up from your mother, your father, your grandparents. You renounce it in Jesus name, and you believe in that there is a way out.
- [50:38]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Yeah.
- [50:39]
Jenny Allen
And. And so this isn't complicated. You know, you just pray against the evil that has come for you, and then you take responsibility for your generation and your life. Right. We all want to do things different. I've seen this work again and again and again because of the blood of Jesus. So Francis Chan shared a lot of his story with me recently, publicly. And it was so powerful. I had no idea that. I don't know if everybody knows who he is, but I feel like a lot of Christians do. Very, very powerful preacher of the gospel. I mean, just so powerful. And so when you think about his life and joy and the way he lives and preaches, you would never guess that he was rejected, betrayed by his family. He was literally given up. He didn't. They didn't want him. His. Some relatives took him. They didn't want him anymore. Like, he was rejected again and again and again through childhood. And I asked him, I was like, have you done a lot of counseling for that? And he said, not a lot, no. But Jesus really did heal me. It was so powerful because that is possible. And I know sometimes it feels like we're tooth and nail, you know, fighting this thing. And it's true. Like, counseling can help. And I mean, I'm watching someone I love go through AA right now and to fight alcoholism. And it's so brave. And it's. It's her, you know, with God's help, like, clawing her way out of addiction. So I'm not acting like it's a passive experience, but Jesus can heal. And so we believe that, and we pray that just that Jesus would heal the parts of us. And then when we believe it again, because we Will we notice it quicker and we surrender and give it over to Jesus quicker, and we notice that our brains start to change. It really does. It really does change. And we really do get more free.
- [52:30]
Madison Pruitt Trout
That's so good. I. Can you just give, like, a short. Before we actually end in prayer? And I would love for you to actually pray over them, but just a short example of what it looks like if they hear you say, like, renounce the lie and. Yeah, like, what does that actually mean? And how do you do that? Like, what are the things you say if you feel the weight of a lie? If you resonate with, I am worthless. I am helpless. I am unlovable. And you see some of the same patterns, some of the same anxiety, some of the same strongholds and habits that are holding you back. How do you begin that journey of, like, renouncing and believing?
- [53:03]
Jenny Allen
Let's do it. And I'm gonna do it for you.
- [53:07]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Yeah, Okay. I told her right before that.
- [53:09]
Jenny Allen
I said, not because I think it's a therapy session. You're in massive bondage. I believe you've already been fighting this for a long time. But I do believe that it kind of hangs on. It'll take. It'll take you back if it can get you back. And so I'm just gonna pray for you, not because of. It'll be an example for everybody. And then I would say you have to tell someone. Like, you have to just say it out loud as fast as you can. I meet with girlfriends. I'd say twice a week. That sounds like a lot, but twice a week, I sit down and I kind of get out what I've been processing the last few days. They do the same. And we fight for each other to believe. Truth so powerful, you've got to get. You've got to do that regularly. So that's super important. But let me pray right now, so. Oh, God, it's so good to be with you. You are the place we want to be. And I thank you for the peace that. That you bring just by being in your presence. And, Father, this is a big, hairy, crazy struggle for all of us. Like, I just think of everybody listening and the lies that they've believed in, the ways that. That has infiltrated every part of their life. And so God even just give me words in this moment that every person listening can receive. God. And I pray for power even through this prayer. I pray that even through this prayer for those listening, God, that something would break in them.
- [54:36]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Yes, Lord.
- [54:37]
Jenny Allen
You can do that. Holy Spirit. You can be in the cars with people listening, you can be on their walks with them and you can cause this to happen. So we pray that in Jesus name. But right now, God, I want to pray for my precious, precious sister Maddie. I thank you for her life. I thank you for her joy. I thank you for the ways, God, that she lives so free. And God, all the ways that that has found her, but also the way she has chosen it. And God, right now I pray against any belief that still lingers in her that her performance is what brings her value. God, we pray in Jesus name against any scheme of the enemy. Against Maddie Pruitt, we pray against any evil that has come for her mind. In Jesus name. We pray for a spirit of religion or a spirit of performance, God, that. That has haunted her and tormented her and taunted her and made her believe she has to measure up to be loved. And we pray that those spirits right this minute would report to you that the expectations of a false religion, not true religion, God, we know that that's real too. But. But a false religion, that is a heavy burden. That is a bondage over her life, God, that. That right now it would report to you and that you would judge it and burn it up. And we pray, God, for freedom, God. We pray for just a beautiful, refreshing freedom to go through her days, God, enjoying them. That there wouldn't be a report card at the end of everything she's doing right now, God, but that there would just be life and peace and joy and beauty and goodness because she's in your presence. Thank you for your kingdom. Thank you for how different it is than the world. We just lay down our desires, we lay down our idols. We lay down the things we've come to love in this world more than you and God. We just ask that you purify our hearts and just pull out anything that. That is causing us to miss the abundant life that you promise us in Jesus name. Amen.
- [56:59]
Madison Pruitt Trout
Amen. So good. Thank you, friend. I love you so much. It's. It is so powerful what you're talking about, of just this confession and then praying. And it talks about that in James 5.
- [57:10]
Jenny Allen
Simple.
- [57:11]
Madison Pruitt Trout
You know, it's like, confess to one another and pray for each other. And that's where you accept experience, healing and freedom. And we've seen that all across, you know, college campuses of just you inviting so many college students to confess the thing that has been keeping them stuck and making them feel small and keeping them in the same cycle of sin and shame and all of these things. And you're witnessing right in front of your eyes. Like, these students just experience radical freedom in a moment. But also freedom is an everyday decision and choice. And so I love this book is such a beautiful. Pointing to the book, pointing to the Bible of just like how you continually go to truth every day, how you continually choose truth every day. Because even if you have a breakthrough moment of like, I am free from that lie, you're still gonna have to continually walk in the truth every day. And to not go back. Galatians talks about it like, don't go back to that bondage, that yoke of slavery. Don't go back there to what you've been set free from. And so I'm so grateful for this work.
- [58:11]
Jenny Allen
I wanna say one thing to you too. I am so grateful for the example you are to everybody of what it looks like to walk in that freedom, because you do. And you are, you are grace and truth. And it is so refreshing. And I know, I mean, I'm sitting over here watching my daughter nod, who's in college, and she told me today how many of her friends have really changed huge parts of their life because they listen to you broken up with boys, made different decisions. And so I'm just so proud of you and I'm cheering you on for the rest of my days.
- [58:48]
Madison Pruitt Trout
I love you.
- [58:49]
Jenny Allen
I love you so much.
- [58:50]
Madison Pruitt Trout
I just believe in you. I feel so the same way. It's so refreshing the way that you are so graceful and real and honest, but the way you walk in so much spiritual authority and truth and you have impacted truly your generation. But this generation and so many I know of, my generation looks to to you and clings to so much of the revelation. God gives you the vision. God gives you the way he's anointed your voice for such a time as this. And I'm super thankful and I'm thankful for this message and this will be linked in the show notes so that you guys can go and get it for yourself. The lie you don't know you believe. There is a lie that you are most likely believing right now that is keeping you from God's very best for your life. And he came to give you life and life abundantly to the fullest. And Jenny wants you to find that. I want you to find that. So thank you so much for listening. Thank you for coming on.
- [59:38]
Jenny Allen
Love you, friend.
- [59:38]
Madison Pruitt Trout
I love you so much. And as always, guys, be sure to stay you stay true. We love you.
- [59:51]
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