← Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
The Story Behind the Chosen with Dallas and Amanda Jenkins
01:16:05
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- [00:00]
A
Oh, hey, welcome to gift wrapping. Whoa.
- [00:02]
B
So is Saldana.
- [00:03]
C
Hey, can you wrap these please?
- [00:05]
A
Wow, iPhone 17s.
- [00:07]
C
You splurged at T Mobile. You can get four iPhone 17s on them. The new center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. It's the perfect gift for everyone.
- [00:15]
A
I'm the worst. I only got my mom a robe.
- [00:17]
C
Well, it's better than socks.
- [00:19]
A
So I have to trade in my old phone, right?
- [00:21]
C
No AT T mobile. There's no trade ins needed when you switch. Keep your old phone or give it as a gift.
- [00:26]
A
Incredible.
- [00:27]
C
In fact, wrap up my old phone too for my aunt Rosa.
- [00:30]
D
Forget that.
- [00:30]
C
Aunt Liz will be jealous.
- [00:32]
A
Sounds like my family drama.
- [00:33]
D
Oh, I got it.
- [00:34]
C
I'll give it to my abuela. I'll take reindeer paper with. Hey, where are you going?
- [00:37]
A
To T Mobile. The holidays are better. AT T Mobile get four iPhone 17s on us. No trade in needed when you switch plus four lines for just 25 bucks a line. And now T Mobile is available in US cellular stores with 24 monthly bill credits and 4 eligible board ins on essentials for well qualified customers bought or pay plus taxes fees and $35 device connection charge credits and depends balance due. If you pay off early or cancel, contact us. Finance agreement 256 gigabytes. $830 required.
- [00:59]
D
Visit t mobile.com with savings over $390 this shopping season, VRBO helps you swap gift wrap time for quality time with those you love most. From snow on the roof to sand between your toes. We have all the vacation rental options covered. Go to VRBO now and book a last minute week long stay. Save over $390 this holiday season and book your next vacation rental home on VRBO. Average savings $396. Select homes only.
- [01:30]
C
I want to hear like the story of all this, like y' all story, the chosen story.
- [01:35]
A
This message pops up on my computer. Remember, your job is not to feed the 5,000. It's only to provide the loaves and fish. In that moment, my life changed forever.
- [01:44]
B
The pressure you feel is, lord, I know I did my part, but I want to control the outcome and to literally release that and be like I was obedient. Now it's up to you.
- [01:52]
D
Very blessed. To be able to see what God is doing in the world as a family. It's been really, really hard.
- [01:57]
A
I wouldn't have done this if I hadn't had a massive career failure.
- [02:00]
C
What has this journey been like for just your marriage and your family, your kids?
- [02:05]
A
The moment we Started doing the show, everything got worse. God's got us to this place of desperation.
- [02:10]
B
You about to launch this movie. I know.
- [02:12]
A
We're hungry.
- [02:13]
B
Gavin Stone or what?
- [02:14]
A
You still don't know the name of the movie, which means the multiplication never came.
- [02:26]
C
What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout, with Grant Trout in the podcast studio. We have some special guests, some really special people, really special guys. We actually met for the first time today.
- [02:40]
B
Yes.
- [02:40]
C
Dallas and Amanda Jenkins. We're so excited. Welcome to the Stay True podcast. Thank you.
- [02:44]
A
Did you pick up on how special we are? You've said really special. I'm not sure that covers it.
- [02:51]
C
We said we had a conversation before this that I wish we would have caught on camera because it was just so good. It was so rich. And we were like, this is the real stuff. These are the things that we need to talk about.
- [03:03]
B
Parenting and lack of sleep, body hacks, all the stuff.
- [03:06]
C
Health hacks, all the things. But you guys are truly just pioneers in today's generation. You guys are making a way for there to be conversations around Jesus where there wouldn't be some people who don't feel comfortable stepping into church, people who don't feel comfortable going and buying a Bible, but will turn on a TV show in the comfort of their own home because that feels safe. And you guys are in the forefront of that. And he is the creator of Chosen. The Chosen. And we have been so impacted by the Chosen. And Amanda writes, okay, I have to show you guys. This is the chosen interactive Bible study, the stronghold of the chosen. This is the newest Bible study. They do one for every single season. And I'm so excited to go through this. This is gonna be really fun. But you guys are such a good. We said this right before we press record, but you guys are such a good duo. You balance each other so well.
- [04:00]
A
That's one way to put it.
- [04:01]
C
And we have so many questions, so I'm really excited to dive in. But, yeah, we just wanted to start by saying thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for your. Yes. And for your obedience. We know that it's not easy, and it comes with a cost, and we're so grateful for the way it's impacting a generation and for the way it's impacted us. Like, it's been such a. We love the Chosen.
- [04:21]
B
We got married three years ago, and part of our early, newly married routine was we would have dinner, and we were like, and now it's Chosen time. And it. It was uniting for our early marriage. And so I want you guys to know, like, it's for so many people, but it's for. It's for us. And you guys have impacted us profoundly, and we're thankful. And. And it's brought this ancient black and white text to life. And so there's so much to talk about. But I want you guys to know. I know you know, there's so many people you've impacted, but just I want you to see us that it's really impacted us in our marriage, so we're thankful.
- [04:56]
A
Oh, that's great.
- [04:57]
C
There's just. There's so much out there and that you feel like every time you turn on a show, even if it's like the middle ground, like, supposed to be a decent show, you know, not too bad, not too racy out there, it's. You still feel like in some way, shape or form, you're compromising values.
- [05:13]
D
You're always filtering, you're always sorting.
- [05:15]
A
Yeah.
- [05:16]
C
And it's just the fact that we can turn on the chosen, and we're watching a show that's actually bringing us closer to Jesus and striking up conversations and like Grant said, even bringing to life, you know, this. This truth, the word of God that we're building our life on and being able to visualize. We're such visual creatures. So to be able to, like, visualize the text that we study and memorize and build our life on is incredible. So we. I want to hear, like, the story of all this. Like, y' all story. The chosen story. Yeah, I want to hear the origin.
- [05:46]
A
Yeah. So I think I can. And I think I can address one of the things that you said in. In the process of telling the story, because the why of it is kind of a key part of it, because there's the what, which is I wouldn't have done this if I hadn't had a massive career failure. So back in 2017, a movie that I did called the Resurrection of Gavin Stone, if you haven't heard of it, that's. That's the point. That's the problem. That's why it failed.
- [06:13]
B
I need to check that out. I need to go watch it.
- [06:15]
A
You're like, ah, that's interesting. I never heard of that. I know. That's why Gavin. We're aware. That's why we're here, because that movie failed. So it came out in theaters and was a total bomb. And I had been building towards that moment. It was like. That was like a big moment for Me, I'd been in the business for a while, and this was, like, my big opportunity to work with some of the biggest producers in Hollywood and got nationwide theatrical release. And this is what I'd been seeking for so long. I'd done other projects that had had varying degrees of success, but this was my biggest opportunity. And God had opened so many doors to that point. So we're thinking, it was so clear, you know, how you really know, especially when you look in reverse, like, how obvious it was that God was involved. So then when all those doors open and everything is laid out for a plan to succeed, and then it completely fails on that afternoon, that Friday afternoon where Amanda and I are home alone and going, so I guess God wasn't involved. Like, we thought. We were so convinced he was. But he's not the author of failure, right? So we must have missed it. This must have been our own head, our own heart, and not God's, because it's failed so clearly. And man and I were home alone, really upset and confused and crying and praying. And God put it so clearly on her heart, like, not an audible voice. But you know those moments when you're like, yeah, okay, God's. This is clearly God's telling me to do something into the story of the feeding of the 5,000 in the. In the Gospels. It's like, I don't know why we're supposed to read this, but we are. So we open it up. We've heard the story in a hundred times. God. Jesus has, speaking to thousands of people for three days. They're starving. The disciples come to him and say, we got to give these people food. And this is the thing that when we were reading that story that we noticed for the first time that we hadn't really paid attention to in the past, which is that when the disciples told Jesus, we need to give these people food, we need to send them home so they can get food, Jesus says, oh, no, we can't send them home. They'll faint along the way. That's how hungry they are. So Jesus, of course, already knew they were starving. Why were they so hungry? Because he'd been talking for three days. It was his fault. He. He brought them to that place of hunger. It's not like he was speaking and going. And then when the disciples came in and they said, jesus, you've been talking for a really long time. They haven't eaten. He's like, oh, wow, that's a good point. He was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. We can't Send them home. They have to stay here? Yeah, they have to stay here for what? For the thing that only he can do. He brought them to that place of hunger and desperation on purpose. So that was encouraging to us. We thought, okay, the fact that we are currently desperate and hungry and in pain doesn't mean that God wasn't part of bringing us there. Right, right.
- [09:20]
D
And just to be clear, like, when you have a movie fail, it's not just a singular event. It is a. Oh, your producing partners are like, this isn't going to work going forward. We thought there was a market here. We thought there was a faith market. There's not a faith market. Good luck to you. Good luck to you. And it's career is kind of done. Like, you. The opportunity you had to prove that you could serve up this. Dropped this story and this audience and whatever, they're like, oh, you can't. So it was a real career. It was devastating. Not just for that project, but it was devastating.
- [09:51]
A
Yeah. Because I'm going, maybe I picked the wrong career. Maybe my calling for the last 20 years, which has had, again, varying degrees of success, but never the kind of affirmation that I was seeking. Because my drug of choice at that time was affirmation. And so I. We always. We still refer to me as a recovering narcissist because for years, that was my. Like, I wanted approval, I wanted affirmation. I wanted legitimacy. And legitimacy in my business comes from the industry approving you and giving you finances or giving you opportunities and then ultimately giving rewards. I mean, I would. I would practice Academy Award speeches in my mirror.
- [10:30]
D
You know, this part makes me uncomfortable. I like to think about it.
- [10:34]
A
She's like, first and foremost, she's like, when you were a teenager. Right. And I'm like, no, no. When I was in my early 40s.
- [10:40]
D
Most attractive thing, like, that's what I.
- [10:41]
A
Was hearing in the bathroom when you were getting ready.
- [10:44]
D
Okay.
- [10:45]
C
The honesty, though.
- [10:45]
A
We're here. She's like, I thought you were praying.
- [10:47]
C
No, no, no.
- [10:50]
A
I had to be ready if I ever got an Oscar.
- [10:52]
C
But he was honoring you in those speeches.
- [10:55]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [10:56]
A
Hello.
- [10:56]
D
Yeah, that was the. Should have been the best speech, but it also gives me the ick, so let's move on. Yeah, back to God.
- [11:03]
A
But anyway, I. When you realize all of the affirmation that I was seeking is now going away officially, like, you can look at the box office numbers and go, my movie is like, now not going to be anywhere near the top. It's embarrassing. But the idea was that we were realizing in this story was, okay, just because there's failure doesn't necessarily mean God's not part of it. And I think that that's a. That's actually a theology that we sometimes get caught up in, I think mistakenly, which is God wants only good things for us. Yeah, well, ultimately, yes. And by the definition of good, capital G, good. Yes. We want eternal good on the eternal perspective. But God sometimes not only allows, but I would say even causes struggles in our lives or hurdles in our lives to that we have to overcome or we have to, in order to overcome them, surrender. And so I hadn't surrendered. I had always been like, wanting to push forward on my own and accomplish things. And I was very results oriented and affirmation oriented. Well, all of that now is, is. Is gone. I've got nothing. So rereading that story and we're like, here's. Here's what we think the story means. Not only does it mean that God was in this, but he's about to multiply the fish. Right? The fish day.
- [12:19]
B
Y' all are feeling this.
- [12:20]
A
Yeah, we're thinking.
- [12:21]
D
Well, we're thinking it's Friday. We're thinking we're still in the box office mindset.
- [12:27]
B
So we're like, this movie, this is.
- [12:28]
D
Going to be a miracle turnaround.
- [12:31]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [12:32]
D
By Sunday, you know.
- [12:33]
B
Okay, okay.
- [12:34]
A
So. So then that night we're thinking, here's the thing. God's got us to this place of desperation about the launch, this movie. I know we're hungry. Here it comes.
- [12:45]
B
Gavin Stone or what?
- [12:46]
A
Yeah.
- [12:46]
D
Ok, remind me the name.
- [12:48]
A
Spoiler alert. You still don't know the name of the movie, which means the multiplication never came.
- [12:53]
B
Go watch it. Yeah, go watch it.
- [12:55]
A
No, it's the Resurrection of Gavin Stone is the name of the movie.
- [12:59]
D
And unimportant at this point.
- [13:01]
A
Like, but that night the numbers got even worse, right? It was almost like God was saying, no, no, that's not the point of the story. And we were like, so what is this? What is happening? Why is God doing this to us or allowing this to happen in our lives? What are we supposed to glean? And so I went back to what I do well, which is analyze and solve problems. And so that night, I'm working on a 15 page memo that I'm going to give to the producing partners and the distribution company and all of that to say, here's how. Here's what went wrong. Here's what we've learned, and here's how this can never happen again. I'M going to. I'm going to make sure that I learn from this, right? While at the same time wondering if this doesn't work, if maybe I'm not. Maybe this isn't the business for me. I gotta find a new job, right? Because this is. I'm not gonna get too many more opportunities. And at 4 o' clock in the morning, I'm working on this memo and this message pops up on my computer through Facebook. And it's a Facebook direct message from someone I'd never met. It was a guy named Alex, who I was Facebook friends with. We talked maybe once a year, and it didn't even say hello or heard about your movie. All it said was just out of the blue, remember, your job is not to feed the 5,000. It's only to provide the loaves and fish. And I literally, in that moment, like, looked around going, was my computer recording what we were talking about? Like, I haven't told anybody that. All day long we're trying to figure out why.
- [14:28]
D
Why this story?
- [14:28]
A
Why this story? Why the 5,000? And the first meaning of it, we thought, wasn't it? And so we're like, why? What does this story mean? What does this story mean? And this guy just like pops in, just goes, here, here's what the story means. And I go. So I didn't respond with a hello either. I go, what are you doing up at four in the morning? That was my first response. And he goes, oh, I'm in Romania right now. I'm in a different time zone. And I go, before I respond, can I just ask why you said that to me? And he goes, oh, that wasn't me. God told me to tell you that. And I'm going, like. Even though I, like, I remember that moment. And it's because that it was such a life altering. Like. So I go, what do you mean God told you that? He told me that he was walking home from a grocery store in Romania. He was there to visit his brother. And he's like, oh, let me look at Resurrection of Gavin Stone. And he saw that it didn't do well. And he told me God just put it on his heart as powerfully as he had. Amanda's like, tell Dallas it's not his job to feed the 5,000. It's only provide the loaves and fish. And he's like, no, I'm not going to do that.
- [15:30]
D
That's super weird.
- [15:31]
A
He's like, I barely know the guy. It's a very condescending thing to say to somebody when they're clearly in the middle of prob. Being very disappointed. And God just kept pounding on him, like, just tell him. And he's like, okay, okay, fine. He goes, it's four o' clock in the morning in. In America right now. He won't see this right now anyway. And so he just sends it off and he gets this immediate response. He's like, oh. And so he just felt led to tell me that. And that's. In that moment, my life changed forever because I realized for the first time, okay, I can truly surrender and just be responsible for the lives for the five loaves and two fish, right? And so that's the name of our company, is Five and two Studios. Because of this concept of if I can truly be okay with just providing my five loaves and two fish, whatever that is, each day, and I can give that to God and he deems it worthy of acceptance, the transaction's over. What takes place after that is not up to me. Now, that's not necessarily a revolutionary concept. I mean, a lot of people say, hey, you just do your best and the results are up to God or whatever. But. But in the concept, in the, in the, in the context of Even Jesus feeding 5,000 people with these loaves and fish that this little boy brought, realizing that the little boy who gave these loaves and fish didn't go home to his parents and say, mom and dad, I fed 5,000 people today. That would have been ridiculous, right? Like, I gave five loaves and two fish. Now there is this part of it in this, in this quote that this guy gave me. We are responsible for the five loaves and two fish throughout the Gospels, every time, almost every time, at least Jesus does some big miracle, he still includes us in it. He could have just created loaves and fish in the laps of everybody, thousands of people, magically. But he did say, I need food. Bring me something. They bring him five loaves and two fish. He multiplies it. He still has the disciples distributed. He still has his disciples gather it. So he still does include us in it. But the multiplication part, the miracle part, the part that only he can do, he does. He is responsible for. But we are responsible for the part that we can.
- [17:42]
C
Hey, friends, it's Maddie. If you've read my new book, Dare to Be True, I would love to hear what you think. Your reviews mean so much to me. They help more people discover the message and the heart behind this book. So if this book has encouraged you, challenged you, or reminded you, live with bold faith and honesty, Would you just take a minute to leave a review? It truly makes such a difference. And if you haven't gotten my new book yet, Dare to Be True, you can go and find it anywhere books are sold. Thank you so much for being a part of this journey and for daring to be true right alongside me. Stay True Merch drop. We got a new Stay True merch collection you guys. And this is my favorite collection yet. I am wearing the jersey from the Stay True Merch collection. And you guys, it is so amazing. It says Stay True on the front, stay free on the back. It's got John 8:32. It is the coolest jersey you've ever seen. But we have sweatshirts, we got T shirts. This is seriously my favorite collection yet. This is the perfect Christmas gift, birthday gift, New Year gift to yourself. You guys, you need to check out this new collection. I'm so excited about it. And you can go to stay true podcast.com we'll also include the link to the exact merch landing page in the show notes. You guys gotta go and check it out. Let me know what you think. If you rep it, tag us. We want to see it. Go and check it out you guys.
- [18:58]
A
Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half the price.
- [19:09]
B
Not half the service.
- [19:11]
D
Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day.
- [19:18]
A
Yeah, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for.
- [19:23]
C
Three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only.
- [19:25]
D
Speed slow hacker 35 gigabytes of networks.
- [19:27]
C
Busy taxes and fees extra c mint.
- [19:28]
D
Mobile.Com.
- [19:31]
A
So in that moment I'm going okay that for the first time in my life I am truly okay with never making another movie. If that's what he wants. I'm truly okay if he doesn't multiply the loaves and fish. But I will just from now on in this moment, I'm going to like hope that I can get on the 5 and 2 plan, right? And so when I got to that plan, when I got to that concept, I'm like, okay, I'm free now. I don't have to succeed in any. I'm just going to push forward and make the best five loaves and two fish that I can each day, whatever those are. And that's why a couple months later when I realized, okay, we wrote this script a couple of Years ago for a short film about the birth of Christ from the perspective of the shepherd. And I'd done a couple of short films and vignettes for my church before. I'm like, we had written this for our church's Christmas Eve service, but when I did the movie, it kind of put that on the shelf. I'm like, well, I'll talk to my church again and see if they're interested in doing this little short film again. They're like, of course, yes. So on my friend's farm in Illinois, 20 minutes from my house, did this little short film about the birth of Christ and about the day of the shepherds that morning taking the sheep to Bethlehem market for, for sacrifice. And, and the whole concept of the. These people who are kind of on the outskirts of society and, and just exploring the, the historical context, the, the cultural context of what the shepherds would have been doing. And so then that night when they encounter the angels and then the Christ child and all of that, like seeing it all from their perspective. And it was, I remember while I was filming on this farm, I'm thinking, this doesn't feel even like five loaves and two fish. This feels like one loaf and half a fish. Like, compared compared to a Hollywood movie, this is just such a small thing. The budget is small and the context of it was small. The story even was small. And the story was about a small situation. These shepherds out in the middle of a field, right? But that was when, while I was doing that, I'm like, wow, I feel so in my lane right now. I feel like I'm so like, this is, I feel like this is what I'm best at is kind of taking stories that we've heard hundreds of times and kind of finding a unique way in not changing the story, but looking at it from a different perspective at the same time. I'm binge watching TV with Amanda and we're like, you know, what is it about television? The episode to episode, season to season, where we're really following the characters, we can really get into the backstories and, and really see them from a perspective that we hadn't seen before. And that's when I thought, man, there, there should be a show like a multi season show.
- [22:07]
D
Someone should do that.
- [22:08]
A
Someone should do that. Obviously not going to be me because no one's lining up around the block to do a Jesus story after the resurrection again. So he still can't remember the name.
- [22:16]
B
We got to resurrect it, man.
- [22:18]
D
You got to come back right but.
- [22:22]
A
But, but anyway, this, this concept of explore the stories of Jesus instead of from a movie where you have limited time or a miniseries. Like, I'd seen multiple Jesus stories before, but they were always miracle to miracle, Bible verse to Bible verse. Jesus is the main character. And I know this is a controversial thing to say, but Jesus doesn't make for a great main character in a drama because he doesn't grow, he doesn't like, get better or solve some problem that he couldn't solve. Like, he's perfect. Right. That's not like, for a drama, that's not necessarily the best main character. Yeah. But I'm like, if we see Jesus through the eyes of those who were around him, his friends, his enemies, and we really get to dig into the backstories, I think that when we reach these moments in the scripture, they come to life even more. Right. And that's.
- [23:06]
D
And then you have those people intersecting with the Son of God. Right. And then, and then all of a sudden it feels like what you had said with black and white turns into this color version. Yeah.
- [23:16]
A
And so when we, when, when I finished the short film and people started to watch, even just the rough cut, there was truly like a trans, almost a transcendent moment that again, I'm not responsible for. I do the five loaves and two fish, the multiplication, whether it's numbers or whether it's depth in someone's heart isn't up to me. But people were having a very strong reaction to the short film. Seeing the birth of Christ from a different perspective. It did. What you talked about, like she just referenced is, and this is what I always like to clarify. It's not like it brings the Bible to life. The Bible's already alive.
- [23:47]
B
Right. Right.
- [23:47]
A
It brings us to life. To see it a little bit more clearly, what is previously in our lives maybe been on in black and white, it brings it into color and it brings Jesus and the disciples down from stained glass windows and statues and reminds you that these were living, breathing human beings who live lives like we do. And so there's something about that that seemed to crack some kind of code on, of understanding, even for myself, who's been a believer my whole life and has heard these stories so many times, I'm like, oh, wow, I'm. I'm now coming alive in my understanding of the Bible and of Jesus more than I ever have before. This is. There's clearly something there. So when the idea was presented to me by this small little streaming platform of like, hey, we saw your short film it's great. Your idea for the show is unbelievable. Great, we're interested. I'm like, that's exciting. Like, well, we think you should raise the money through crowdfunding. And I'm no longer excited because crowdfunding never works great. It's like the kind of thing you see on Facebook. Someone's raising money on their birthday for some charity and the bar never actually.
- [24:50]
B
Gets to the end. It's only like 14% never complete.
- [24:54]
D
Right.
- [24:55]
A
And so you go like, the all time crowdfunding record was $5.7 million for Mystery Science Theater. 3000 movie that and. And another. Some other project. But they already had like big fan bases and they were able to raise the money for this movie that they'd been doing even though they'd been a show for a long time. Why? Had no fan base. Right again. Resurrection of Kevin Stone. He remembers.
- [25:18]
B
I can't wait to watch it. We're doing it tonight. Popcorn.
- [25:23]
A
And you'll be like.
- [25:27]
D
Why the story unfolded.
- [25:29]
A
Yeah. But anyway, the. This has become a much longer story than I intended. Sorry about that, but I don't even remember where I was at.
- [25:37]
D
You were saying that the crowdfund.
- [25:39]
A
Yeah. So the crowdfunding idea. And I'm like, this is not going to work. Like, this is such a dumb idea. But five and two, my job is not to feed the 5,000. My job is to provide the five loaves and two fish. So we put the short film out on social media and at the end of it, I said, hey, if you want, you can invest into this little company and we, we can make season one of a television show. If this short film kind of speaks to you, this is what we're trying to do for a television show. And you know, 16,000 people invested over $10 million shattering the all time crowdfunding record based on this little short film that I did on my friend's farm in Illinois. Right. This five and two principle. This. And I'm like, okay, this is clearly the first sign that A, the five loaves and two fish are working. But B, I'm definitely not multiplying. Like, like I'm not capable of an idea.
- [26:31]
D
That you'd been trained in it. You'd been trained in the idea of the results aren't yours, that you'd been so set up for when the results come.
- [26:40]
B
It's not you.
- [26:41]
D
It's not you. Even in the failure, it was. I'm with you in the failure and I'm responsible for any success. And you're just doing your daily and so he was just perfectly set up for when the Chosen.
- [26:57]
A
So the humility and the surrender was really easy when that happens. And so I think when I broke and I said, okay, God, God, I'm on your plan now. I don't care about results anymore. I don't care about affirmation anymore. I don't. My narcissism is gone. I just want to be where you want me. I think that's when God said, all right, now you're ready for the Chosen. The chosen would have happened 10 years ago if the chosen would have been in place of resurrection, Gavin Stone or Gavin Stone would have succeeded. A, we never would have had the chosen, but B, I would not be in that, I think that place of able to handle the kind of growth that the chosen has had. And over time, over the course of, you know, seven years, eight years, and now we just finished filming season six, the show has grown at a rate way bigger than again, we're capable of. And so one of the things we talk about today too is you mentioned the Bible study. Like one of the things that I think has also helped our perspective is we say the Bible study isn't a supplement to the show. The show is a supplement to the Bible study. The point of the show, the reason we do this show, the why of it, is we want to introduce you to Jesus in some way, whether you already know him or not. But we want to, like you said, bring, bring black and white into color. And you mentioned earlier also in your intro, for a lot of people who aren't comfortable maybe going to church, aren't comfortable going in to buy a Bible, they'll watch the show. Well, here's what would be the bad news if that was the end of the story. If they just watched the show in place of going to church or reading the Bible, that would be a problem, right? The good news is Bible sales are up 20% over the last couple of years. Church attendance is up, and objective and anecdotal measurements are saying the chosen has contributed significantly to that. Because people are going, oh, now that I'm seeing Jesus in a different way, it's the same Jesus that's in the Bible. But I'm like, oh, I hadn't Jesus had been co opted by politics or co opted by religion even, right? Sometimes even religion gets in the way of our understanding of in a direct relationship with Jesus. And the show reminds you. No, no, no. Just like these people 2000 years ago who Jesus looked him in the eye and came to their level, you can still have that now. And so now people are going, I want to know more. I want to dig in deeper. I want to dig into the Bible study. I want to dig into the Bible, I want to go to church. And that's been the really cool thing to see as a result of this, what we would consider a failure. I think God has clearly shown like, no, I had some. I had something for you.
- [29:26]
B
It's an amazing story.
- [29:27]
D
Yeah.
- [29:28]
C
Wow.
- [29:28]
A
Wow.
- [29:28]
B
I remember the crowdfunding days because it was Covid early.
- [29:32]
A
Yeah.
- [29:33]
B
And I jumped on my computer and I watched episode one and you jumped up right before. And I was like, who's this guy explaining it? And he's like asking for money for episode two. I was like, what? But I just remember I was so captivated. It was. Nicodemus was the main kind of theme I was so drawn to. And I just can't believe what it's become. I can't believe.
- [29:55]
A
I mean, I guess we can in some ways because God the fish and loaves.
- [29:58]
B
But, but God has breathed on this in a way that it is unbelievable. And so I, I just like, it's so cool to hear that in failure that God does that because that, that applies to everyone. Everyone's been through that. She's about to drop a book tomorrow. And the pressure you feel is, lord, I know I did my part, but I want to control the outcome and to literally release that and be like, I was obedient. Now it's up to you. That's so powerful.
- [30:25]
D
Well, it's just so freeing, especially if you're following like we've just learned to follow step for step, you know, because it's. When you, you lose your career, you also lose your finances. Right. We had no income for six months. Four kids. We had all kinds of medical issues happening at one time. And we literally watched God just step for step. We called it, we came to call it the manna program where, you know, every day the manna fell for the Israelites. And every day somehow we were provided for and we were led. And it, it ended up being this really awesome thing to be a part of. But it, but it's very quiet in its day to day. And when you know that you're following step for step, day by day, you. The. The outcomes really become less of a thing. It's. It's authentically behind the scenes. He is who he represents himself to be. He's really doesn't care about the numbers. He really doesn't care about growth. And yet he's managing it, and he's stewarding it. But it really is so freeing when you're like, I was supposed to write this book. It's going to do how it does. It's going to minister to who it ministers to, and I'm off the hook.
- [31:25]
A
If you can get to. And by the time maybe someone's listening to this right now, the book has already come out. We don't know how it did. But if you can get to the point where you truly can go, here's the book.
- [31:35]
C
Yep.
- [31:35]
A
Here's the release. I'm giving it not only to the people, but to God and saying, all right, my five loaves and two fish are done. What he does with it is up to him. It'd be. It's a superpower.
- [31:43]
B
Wow.
- [31:43]
A
And so as the Chosen, in the first couple of seasons, the Chosen wasn't growing. It wasn't until Covid. It wasn't until we gave it away for free that all of a sudden it blew up again. Or not again for the first time, the Chosen blew up when we started giving it away for free. And that's when actually the financial situation of the Chosen got way better, too, when we gave it away for free. And we're like, how funny is that? Again, that's how God works. Right. But we.
- [32:08]
D
He doesn't need us at all.
- [32:09]
A
Yeah. Right. So my point is, is that when it was struggling, too, I genuinely was like, okay. And if we don't get to do another season, that's fine, too. Like, it really does. If you can truly get to that point. And it takes time, and it takes prayer, and it takes replacing some of the temptations that you have with scripture on a regular basis. But if you can get to the point where it's like, I'm in a business that's measured by numbers. This podcast downloads ad revenue, the publisher is going to be of the book is going to be judging the numbers. I mean, a lot of your experience, your life has been judged by social media numbers or by votes or by approval of someone else. And if you can get to the point where it's like, I genuinely am fine, regardless of what happens, it does become a superpower. And that's what that's been. Now that the Chosen has gotten what I used to seek and more with box office, with awards or whatever, and I genuinely don't care. It's truly a great place to be in, because I don't. We genuinely don't want to get ahead of ourselves again, where we're, like, starting to feel like over responsible, right?
- [33:21]
C
I cannot wait to tell you guys about this coffee brand my husband Grant and I are absolutely obsessed with. It's called seven weeks Coffee and it is quickly become the only coffee we drink in our house. But it's not just about the taste. This coffee stands for something we deeply believe in. Seven weeks coffee is America's pro life coffee company on a mission to fund the Pro Life Movement 1 cup of coffee at a time. Why are they called seven weeks? Because at seven weeks, a baby is the size of a coffee bean and it's the same time a heartbeat is clearly detected on an ultrasound. As a mom, that just hits differently. They've built their business around saving lives by donating 10% of every sale and to pregnancy centers and pro life organizations nationwide. They've now raised over $1 million and saved thousands of lives. Now let me tell you about the coffee because I'm so picky about what goes into my body. It's mold free, pesticide free, shade grown and low acid and it's organically farmed. Trust me, this is the Pro Life coffee you'll want on Christmas morning. So go to seven weeks coffee.com and save 15% forever when you subscribe. And this holiday season you can claim up to 4 free gifts with your order plus exclusively for my listeners. Use code Stay True for an extra 10% off your first order. That's a 25% off total savings on your first order plus up to four free gifts. Just use code Stay True at checkout. You guys, it is officially my favorite time of the year. The Christmas season is here and you know what that means. Neeme Skincare's biggest sale is almost here. But the best part is I am getting you exclusive early access to shop the sale before anyone else. The sale doesn't go public for a few days, but you can shop it right now. This is the perfect time to stock up on all your favorites like their amazing tallow products or try anything from their entire clean skin care line. Just use my exclusive code MADDIE15 at checkout to unlock 15% off site wide. And because Nimi is the best, they are also including a free gift for my early access shoppers. If your order is over $150, you'll get a free gift. And you guys, it's the sunshine tallow cream. It's the best for that perfect winter glow. Go to Nimi sk.com that's N I M I skincare.com and use my code MADDIE15 at checkout. This is the best way to shop before anyone else and snag your favorites before they sell out. Well, it's like we, we were made to hunger and thirst, but he's the only one that can satisfy it. But yet so often we take it to the things of this world to look for it for the approval, for the satisfaction, for the validation, for the acceptance. And it's what you're saying, it's like when you get to the place where you're like, I know I'm appropriate, approved by God, I know I'm chosen by God. I know that I'm validated by God. And because of that, like, I hunger and thirst for him, and therefore I'm filled. As Matthew 5, 6 says, When I hunger and thirst for Him, I am filled. And so because of that, now I don't have to hunger and thirst for I'm not thirsty for other people's approval. I'm not thirsty for other people's validation. And it really does make such a huge difference. And so I feel like this just applies to everybody listening, even if you're not, you know, creating TV shows, but, you know, wherever you're at in your life, you know, getting your acceptance and approval from God. And even if you feel like you're in a failing season right now, God will make good of it if you just surrender it to him and give it to Him. And maybe that good of it is, you know, something we don't see until we get to heaven. Maybe that good of it is something that happens internally and in you, but he will make good of it.
- [36:43]
A
Yeah. And it might not be that. And that's important. I always try to tell people too. I'm like, not, not everything is going to turn into a. The TV show that you, that you didn't expect. Well, because it could, it could the term good just be for your soul because. And it does also take practice. It's not like, it's just, oh, thanks Dallas, for sharing that story and thanks guys for affirming. Okay, we just. Good. Good to know we just need to replace our desires with God's desires. It does take time to kind of train yourself a little bit to. Every time I feel a temptation to humble brag or to post something for the sake of the clicks. It happens in subtle ways too. I'm sure we all experience it where you find yourself hoping for the approval and to just every time that happens and you know when it happens to go, no, no, and you've got a, maybe a cadre of Bible verses lined up that you're going to Just replace it with. It really does over time start to work, but it doesn't happen just from like going, okay, God's desires are now mine.
- [37:41]
D
Well, and color for that too is that I would say our last five, six years of making the show have been some of the hardest. Personally. We've, we've had ongoing health issues inside of our family. Our kids have really struggled. We've been to marriage. We've backed, been back into marriage counseling twice. Like, I just, I, I really want to be honest about, like, I, I feel like it's not. You learn a lesson and you, you, and now you go forward and it's, it's great. It's. God keeps us on our faces so that we keep being desperate for Him. And so I think if there's any thing I'm learning even in this today, even this morning, is like the suffering that God allows and the struggles that God allows and the failures that God allows is the thing that keeps us seeking Him. And I do feel like every time life is going super smooth, we forget, we forget to seek, we forget to be as desperate and in our desperation and in clinging to him. That's when I feel like you actually receive the most blessing very strangely. So I'm, I'm learning to see suffering differently. And, and, and so I'm always very careful when we're talking about the success, the success of the chosen, because it's like, oh yeah, learn this hard lesson and then sore and it's like, no, it's, it's actually learned to cling on a daily basis. And I don't even know that we've learned that, but that we've been consistently forced.
- [39:07]
A
Well, that's the. One of the keys of the manna program is that God said to the Israelites, don't store up that extra manna because only God for the day. Because if you do store it up, I'm going to make it rot. He wanted them daily desperate and daily.
- [39:24]
D
Hungry and daily, daily in need of his provision.
- [39:26]
A
Yeah, it's so good. So now that's not to mean we don't want to be responsible with finances and save up. But, but, but when it comes to our relationship with God, like, just getting into that place of just total comfort is not necessarily what he wants you to. Capital C comfort that comes from Him. If you get to that place where you're just like, wow, things are so good and you start to forget, you start to start to forget to be desperate for Him. He will, he will force the issue.
- [39:53]
B
He will, He Will, that's good. We, We. We've noticed life is just that kind of.
- [39:59]
A
He.
- [39:59]
B
He doesn't allow you to stay there. And we've just felt that in a lot of different ways, too. And spiritual warfare is very real. And I remember watching some video podcast, I think, with JP Jonathan Bakluta. Yeah, we watched it. I used to work at Harris Creek Church with him. We lived in Waco two years ago. And he's amazing. But you were talking about just what your family was going through with. With health and injuries. And I remember stopping and we prayed for you guys because with what the Lord's doing comes a massive target. And so it's just. We see that and we. We know that on a different level and different things. So thanks for being honest and sharing that, because nobody has your life all together, and we all need the great.
- [40:39]
A
She was underplaying. I mean, the past. Past several years and including this season, I mean, filming season six, which is the crucifixion season. Oh, my gosh.
- [40:48]
B
And we're done with it.
- [40:49]
A
We just finished filming it a week ago. By far without a close second, the hardest season we've ever filmed. And by far without a close second, the most personally challenging and spiritual warfare involving this 2025 by far. So when anyone. That's another thing for anyone listening, going like, oh, we're so glad that God worked everything out for the Jenkins. Yeah, okay. Career wise, this is great. This is fun. This is the most success we've ever had. On every other level, it's been the most challenging and difficult and painful. Yeah, right. And so just be ready for the fact that just because one thing in your life is going smoothly, that doesn't mean that God doesn't still want you to be in that. That challenging place. And again, everyone has a different theology of suffering. Our theology of suffering is for sure that God is very much in it and not just in the. Sir, I know you're suffering. Nothing I can do about it. I only want good things for you. I'm gonna now fix it. God sometimes is like, no, no, I'm in this suffering because I want you to be here and I want you to find me in this. Yeah, right. I'm not always going to just fix it for you.
- [41:57]
B
Amen.
- [41:59]
A
In the flesh.
- [42:00]
C
I mean, it says in Hebrews too, that Jesus learned obedience through what he suffered. And I'm like, that's a crazy thought. That Jesus learned obedience through what he suffered. And so how much more do we need to go through suffering to learn true Obedience. And I talk about that a lot on this podcast because I think as Christians, we have oftentimes correlated. If we follow Jesus, then he's going to bless what I do. And if he doesn't bless what I do, then maybe I did something wrong, or maybe I'm in, you know, the wrong job, or I'm. I, you know, I did something, I sinned again, whatever, and he's punishing me. And I think that, yes, sometimes if we're falling into sin, there's action, there's consequences to our actions, but also there's just times where it talks about in James 1, like, consider it pure joy whenever you face trials of many kinds, because the testing of your faith produces perseverance. And if the whole goal of this life is to prepare you for the next life, and if the whole goal is to be as close to Jesus as you can and to make him known to the world, then if suffering produces obedience and steadfastness and long suffering, and that's what keeps us, like, helps us stay true to the end, then let it be, you know? And I think we get so scared of suffering. We're just like, no, no, no, no. And of course, you know, we talk about all the time. We're like, it's a weird thing to talk about because I'm like, I don't want suffering, you know, but at the same time, whatever I go through, whatever we go through, having that perspective of Lord, like, don't. Grant says all the time, like, don't deliver me until you've developed in me what you need to develop in me. You know, don't take me from this until you've taught me what you need to teach. Like, let me learn it now so I don't have to repeat it again. You know, don't leave me.
- [43:38]
D
I don't want to have to go through it again. No unnecessary suffering, Lord. No unnecessary.
- [43:43]
A
But we. In terms of how the show, we intend for the show to help you kind of reconcile some of the biblical text in season three. At the end of season three, Peter is on the water, right? This is the walking on water scene.
- [43:57]
C
I love this scene.
- [44:00]
A
So powerful. So it's one of my. One of my favorites, too. But here's the thing.
- [44:03]
D
I live on the water. I feel like I'm always like, rise, sink. Right? Like, I can't. Yeah, but I can't get off the water.
- [44:10]
A
But it's.
- [44:11]
B
Hey, but it's better than the boat.
- [44:13]
A
It is.
- [44:13]
D
It's better than the boat I got out.
- [44:16]
B
At least I'D rather be a. We heard this quote.
- [44:18]
C
And I'd rather be a water walking Christian than a sometimes sinking.
- [44:23]
B
No, I'd rather be a water walking, sometimes sinking disciple than a disciple in the bone.
- [44:28]
D
I was like, man, there you go.
- [44:30]
C
So just write that on your mirror.
- [44:32]
A
But in Peter, in one of his books, and I'm, I'm not, I'm not remembering the, the reference, but it's when Peter actually, in the New Testament, one of his books he writes, talks about how suffering and, and struggle produces endurance, produces strength, right? So in. On. In the walking on water, we give a, a hint of that when he says, you know, why are you, you know, like, why are you healing gentiles or helping gentiles or whatever when I'm right in front of you and I'm struggling? And Jesus says, why do you think I allow trials? And Peter says, I don't know. And he says, because this is strengthening you. I am preparing you for, you know, and, and Peter ends up writing about that later. But we brought it back. We kind of introduced it where Peter got that teaching so great in the scene of the feeding, in the scene of the, the walking on water.
- [45:23]
D
And you also brought it full circle. And he said something like, I let people go hungry, but I feed them, right There's.
- [45:28]
A
So Jesus also says, you know, I, I. In that walking on water moment, we tried to tie it together with the feeding of the 5,000 Reese's. I do let people go get hungry, but then I feed them, right? Come to me, you who are weary and heavy laden. I will give you rest like he, he, he. The weary and heavy laden part is the part where you are most likely to be willing to reach for Christ. And that's why it's okay to be there. Oh, hey. Welcome to gift wrapping. Whoa.
- [45:59]
B
So is Saldana.
- [46:00]
C
Hey, can you wrap these, please?
- [46:02]
A
Wow. IPhone 17s, you splurged at T Mobile.
- [46:05]
C
You can get four iPhone 17s on them. The new center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. It's the perfect gift for everyone.
- [46:11]
A
I'm the worst. I only got my mom a robe.
- [46:14]
C
Well, it's better than socks.
- [46:15]
A
So I have to trade in my old phone, right?
- [46:18]
C
No AT T mobile. There's no trade ins needed when you switch. Keep your old phone or give it as a gift.
- [46:23]
A
Incredible.
- [46:24]
C
In fact, wrap up my old phone too, for my Aunt Rosa.
- [46:27]
D
Forget that.
- [46:27]
C
Aunt Liz will be jealous.
- [46:28]
A
Sounds like my family drama.
- [46:30]
D
Oh, I got it.
- [46:31]
C
I'll give it to my abuela. I'll take reindeer Paper with Hey, where are you going?
- [46:34]
A
To T Mobile. The holidays are better. At T Mobile get four iPhone 17s on us. No trade in needed when you switch plus four lines for just 25 bucks a line. And now T Mobile is available in US cellular stores with 24 month legal credits and four eligible board ins on essentials for well qualified customers. Auto pay + taxes fees and $35 device connection charge credits and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Contact Us Finance Agreement 256 GB$830 required Visit T mobile.com.
- [47:00]
C
Okay, I want to get into like what filming is like and some of the behind the scenes moments that maybe we don't get to see on the show. And just, I mean you were just even talking about like I want to hear some of the, the crazy miracle awesome, cool moments, but also some of the hard moments. You were just talking about this, you know, filming of season six and how there were a lot of challenges, you know, maybe onset offset personal life while filming that I would love to just, I mean hear a little bit about because you know we've heard so many people talk about like when you're filming these types of things, like you just see your hear miracle stories and like crazy things happening, supernatural encounters and I mean even just the actors and I mean I just want to hear. We, we would love to hear some of those moments.
- [47:43]
B
And, and how do you guys like lay in bed at night and go wait, we should do this scene? Or is it like, I want to know. You don't have to be laying in bed. I don't know why we took it there.
- [47:54]
D
We're like, we are not talking about the chosen for five, five minutes. That's actually. Okay.
- [47:59]
B
Are these, are these revelation moments or is this like we get in a boardroom and we're on the whiteboard going what scene should we do? Like how do the scenes come alive as well?
- [48:08]
A
So all right, so yeah, there's, that's a couple different questions. But, but there's, there's. I'll talk about the challenge from like I'll give you an example of season six. So we were in Italy at one point. So we were shooting. We filmed the crucifixion sequence, like the actual, you know, torture and crucifixion and on the cross of Christ in Italy, in Matera, Italy, the same place where Passion of the Christ was filmed. It's an extraordinary location with a backdrop that you can't get kind of nothing like it. Yeah, you can't get it in the States you can't. You don't want to get it on a blue screen. And so this summer, we were in. In Italy for filming for three weeks, and it was the hardest thing we've done in the show physically. The. You know, the crew is an Italian crew, so we. There's a language barrier. We're out in the middle of kind of nowhere on this mountain. Everything about it was challenging. And then, of course, emotionally, this filming this scene with actors that we've been working together, you know, for six years, and seeing Jonathan as Jesus with blood and torture and being pulled and he's. And he's up on this cross. And of course, it's not real nails, but he's. It's very uncomfortable and it's very physically challenging. And we were kind of, I think, in the elements, away from our comfort zones, away from home, all of us, the Americans, at least. Like, we. Trauma bonded for sure, because it was so challenging. Yeah. And there was one day in particular where I was running around and I couldn't kind of connect with the cast like I normally do to give them direction or whatever because I had so many things to worry about. And so there's a sequence where Jesus is being actually lifted up onto the cross. So most likely in. In. The historical reality of it is that they would have had him attached to this cross beam and then literally pulled by a. Like.
- [50:11]
D
Like.
- [50:11]
A
Like. Like a. Using a pulley and rope, like, pulling and lifting him up. And he would have been totally suspended and then placed onto this. What they called a. I'm blanking on the name of it, but the. The. The. The beam that. That goes straight up out of the ground. And so he's placed into this and it's just. And he's screaming and yelling and he's blood all over him. And. And it's challenging. And the. The physicality of filming, it was challenging. The. The. The ropes and the pulleys and everything. And I'm looking at it, and I, for the first time in my career, had my own emotional breakdown. Like, I'm normally the strong one. I have to be the strong one. I'm the captain of the ship, and I walk past the cast and they're all still, after we got the shot, weeping and struggling and kind of hugging each other and trying to get through it. And Jonathan has gone through this physical. The physical pain and struggle of the shot. And I'm seeing all this around me. It's like a movie scene where it's just all this crying and yelling and pulling and screen And I just started to, like, weep, and I'm like, I can't be doing this in front of everybody. Right. You know, I need to be strong. So I just walked away, and I went to the edge of this cliff. I wasn't going to jump off that. Just the only place I could get away from everybody. Yeah. And I'm like. And I'm. And I'm seeing this, the crosses, and I'm seeing the sky, and I'm talking to God, and I'm crying, and I'm shaking, and I'm trying to get myself together, and. And I'm. I just. Again, I'm surrendered again. And I go, okay, God, this is for you. And this is. I'm. You know, I'm trying to capture this moment that went. That you went through for real. And it was 10 times worse than this, a hundred times worse than this. But, like, take this as an offering and just help me get through this. Give us strength, because we don't have it. I'm spent. I'm emotionally spent, physically spent. So I finally get myself together, and I walk back on set. I'm like, all right, I'm gathered. I'm ready. Okay, here we go. And I walk past the cast, and I kind of squeeze their hand and crying. And then someone says, oh, Amanda's here. And I hadn't seen Amanda in two weeks. Like, Amanda showed up, you know, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go see Amanda. And I see her coming towards me, and I just burst into tears again. And I just, like. I'm literally. She's, like, all excited, and she sees me, and I. We make eye contact, and I just burst into tears.
- [52:25]
C
Different kind of embrace right now.
- [52:26]
A
Yeah. And. And. And my son Sam, who's never seen me like that, he's seen me get moved and emotional, but not like. And he's like, dad's breaking down. What is going on? And I just. And she hugged me, and my arms were at my sides, like. And we. There's actually a video on our social media page of. Of. Of kind of capturing some of that behind the scenes. And you see me just. My head is, like, on her shoulder. My arms are at my sides. I'm like, I got nothing. Wow. I am just spent. And again, in that moment, we kind of had that similar remembrance and realization of, okay, this is okay. This is where God wants us to be. Like, we can't. Actually. I'm not qualified. I'm not equipped. I'm not strong enough to truly, truly capture what needs to be Captured in this moment, this historical moment that was the most important historical moment ever. And so those are some of the examples of where a lot of times, whether it's the feeding of the 5000 scene or the walking on water scene or season one, episode four, the miracle of the Fish, so many moments where we. Nothing was working. I didn't have all of my intelligence with me. All of my decisions and problem solves aren't working and where God just had to do the rest of it.
- [53:38]
D
And sometimes the bigger the scene, I feel like that's been more of the theme where it's not these things of like, we're prepared and we mount up on wings like eagles. It's more like we're on our faces and nothing's going right. And I. I do feel like it's. It's just happened too many times to be coincidental that the Lord's like, I need to move you all out of this. You're not even capable. Right. In your. We have tricks to capture supernatural. Right. But even those things fail. And so it's.
- [54:08]
A
I feel like visual effects and stuff.
- [54:09]
D
Like that, CGI or whatever it is. And I just feel like the Lord in every. The bigger it gets. The.
- [54:15]
A
Yeah. This season I also had my first.
- [54:17]
D
The worse it goes.
- [54:18]
A
My first, like physical break. Like, I got heat exhaustion on one of the days where we had 600 extras. Huge, huge scene with 25 of our actors and I. And it was in the 100 degrees August heat in Texas and I overheated and I couldn't. Normally I stay ahead of the game with electrolytes and I. And I got behind and I couldn't catch up. And I was like my entire body and like all of my clothes were completely soaked and I could barely walk. And I never. I never have that issue. I'm always like the strong guy, you know, And I was just spent. It happens to be, of course, the scene, the big trial scene where Pilate brings Jesus before the crowd, you know, and they're this seasoning for Jesus versus Barabbas, you know, and it's so intense and I'm like, I got nothing again. Right? And I think God.
- [55:08]
D
God does that gets out of the way consistently.
- [55:11]
A
But then we also have so many moments, and I can't give names, of course, because a lot of these moments are very personal. But there have been so many moments where an actor is doing a scene and it's inevitably a scene where they are quoting scripture or where Jesus is calling them to follow him or rebuking them. For something in their hearts or healing.
- [55:36]
D
Them in some way, Something very poignant. Always. It's specific.
- [55:38]
A
But there's been a dozen times where a cast member has been in a scene like that, and they have this overwhelming. Can't explain it. Emotional spiritual response where. And what you'll often see on screen is the take where they were truly crying or truly shaken or truly in the moment where even though it's Jonathan, it's not Jesus, and even though I'm Dallas, not God, and the Chosen is a TV show, not the Bible, but where they are quoting scripture, where they are having to respond to the character of Jesus calling them. Because, you know, over half our cast and crew aren't believers and the whole mix of people. But in those moments where something very profound and real happens and it happens. It's happened enough times that you go, okay, this is. God's clearly involved. And. Yeah. And just this season, I mean, one of our cast members got baptized in our Sea of Galilee set, you know, in Texas. Where in Texas do y' all feel in? It's a small town called Midlothian, just south of Dallas.
- [56:46]
B
Yeah, I'm born and raised Dallas.
- [56:47]
A
Okay.
- [56:48]
B
From there. Yeah.
- [56:49]
A
And so we have a set on the Salvation Army's property. They have a. This camp that's 800 acres of just open land. It's a long story, but we. We partnered with them, so we built a set there. But we have. There's this lake there that we use as our Sea of Galilee lake. And. And one of the cast members who, in the course of filming, came to God and. And sent me a text about it and said, I've. I'm. For the first time in my life, I truly believe and I have you to thank for making the introduction. And I remember saying, like, best company ever. Being thanked for making the introduction is, like, the greatest thing you could ever hear in your life. Like, if you could have that on your tombstone, made the introduction, but then ultimately got baptized in the NRC of Galilee set.
- [57:35]
B
So.
- [57:35]
A
So we've got, you know, several of those moments that have happened where just clear that this is bigger than. Yeah, for sure.
- [57:43]
B
Yeah. It's the. I don't know what you guys call the scenes where there's usually one per episode where, like, the humming happens. It's like the Jesus moment. That's when, like, something emotionally happens in all the viewers when that moment happens. And I think the first one for me was when Jesus called Mary. I think he put his hand on Mary's hand.
- [58:02]
A
Yeah.
- [58:03]
B
And. And it's just so beautiful.
- [58:06]
A
Jesus's first lines in the show are, that's not for you. Wow. Right? It's. That's. First things we hear him say, that's not for you.
- [58:13]
B
For Mary.
- [58:14]
A
And that's the. The. The introduction of the concept of, like, I'm here because what the world is is not for you. I'm for you. You know? Yeah.
- [58:22]
B
That's just so beautiful. What do you guys watch? The Chosen. Y'.
- [58:26]
A
All.
- [58:26]
B
Do y', all, like, sit down and watch it?
- [58:29]
A
Have you ever done that? Sit down. Like, let's gather as a family.
- [58:33]
D
The whole family watches the show. I feel like almost on our own, we get. We get links before it's out. Right? Or. But no, we go to the theater.
- [58:41]
A
And we usually go to. Because it comes out in theaters, usually.
- [58:43]
B
Grand opening thing.
- [58:44]
A
Well, but not only that, but usually there's a theatrical release just of each of the episodes. And so we usually will go and see it.
- [58:51]
D
But I would say we do not binge the chosen the way others experience it. Right. Because, like, we live it and we see the scenes. All the, you know, he's in the room editing the things, and they'll come around to. Come around to watch.
- [59:03]
A
But I will say this because you also asked about how some of these ideas come.
- [59:07]
B
Right, Right.
- [59:09]
A
And I remember specifically in season one, I was working on the scene where Jesus calls Peter to follow him. Had to call Peter to follow him. But in the Bible, there's a scene where Jesus heals Peter's mother in law. Right. It's how we know Peter was married was because Jesus heals his mother in law. And so I was gonna. We were gonna show that scene. And so I'm working on that scene. And I. And I remember it came to me the idea that what if, you know, Eden, Peter's wife, is struggling with the notion that Peter's going to follow Jesus and is going to leave. Because a lot of these disciples, when they would go on these journeys, would be gone for weeks at a time. And what if Jesus healing her mom was so that Peter's leaving would be easier because she would have lived with. With Peter at the time, the mother in law. That's how that would have worked if she was sick, especially. And so I remember, had this concept and it felt downloaded from God. But I. I always am careful to talk about that because I. I don't want to imply that I'm inspired by God in the same way that the Bible is. We're not the Bible. We're a TV show. I'm a flawed man. The show is flawed. It's not the Bible. Read the Bible.
- [60:23]
B
You've had to, you've had to say that once or twice. Yes, that's, you know, your phrase, man.
- [60:28]
A
The show is not the, you are safe here. Okay?
- [60:31]
B
We love it.
- [60:32]
A
Yes, but the show is to, is, is not the thing. It's to point you to the thing. But anyway, I went to, I, I, this thought came of Jesus pulling Eden aside and, and, and, and it's like her, his healing of, of Peter's mother in law could be as much for Eden as it was for anybody. And so I went to Amanda and I said, I have this idea where Jesus pulls Peter's wife aside and he just says, I see you. And she immediately, like tears started forming in her eyes.
- [61:04]
D
They are right now too.
- [61:05]
A
Yeah, right now. And he says, I, and Jesus says, I see you and you're as much a part of this calling as Peter is. I know when I'm calling Peter, I'm also calling you to sacrifice and I see you. And so, and then he heals her mother for that purpose. And Amanda said, this scene is going to speak to all of those spouses who maybe don't get the benefit of the calling's rewards. You know, like when you're, when like I get to hear people say to me, and you guys have experiences too, you know, oh, that, that really impacted me, or I, my life was changed because of something that you did. Well, the spouses of that calling don't always get to, when they said they're sacrificing too, but they don't always get to necessarily hear that. And so sure enough, when we were filming that scene, I finished filming and I walked out and the producers had been kind of standing at the monitors and they're all crying and they're like we were calling our wives saying, oh, I see you, I see you.
- [62:02]
D
And.
- [62:02]
A
Our spouses or whatever. And then sure enough, you know, when this, when the show came out, there were people all over the world. We still hear from people all over the world in multiple scenes. But I'm just using that scene as an example of whether it's the, that scene or the little James scene when Jesus says to little James who's crippled, you know, I, you know, you, you will be healed. But, but, but it's just a matter of time, but maybe not now. And sometimes there's a reason why, you know, I'm allowing you to remain handicapped, you know, and how that can be a ministry too. And, and all of the scenes that have been the most impactful for people all over the world are the scenes that. I remember the moments when we talked about them of feeling like this, just God kind of granting us this scene, this moment.
- [62:51]
D
Yeah.
- [62:51]
A
Right. And I can remember the moments when it was downloaded and going, yeah, God clearly had something that he wanted said and we got to be a. We got a chance to be the vehicle through which this point was made.
- [63:03]
B
Yeah.
- [63:04]
A
And I know that's happened with you on your podcast or happened with you and your speaking engagements or in your book. I'm sure that there are moments when you go. So I know that this came from someone bigger than me and that's going to be the thing that's most likely to result in people's lives being impacted.
- [63:21]
C
Right? Yeah. And even the moments you're talking about when you feel like you get to the end of yourself and you're your weakest, even those moments usually being the ones where people are the most impacted. And we talk about that often. Like, I'll go on and do an interview or a speaking agent or whatever and, and you know, I'll come back and I'll be like, man, that was probably my worst thing I've ever done. Like, I definitely, I did not feel like myself. I felt, you know, and I'll get the most response out of that and be like, man, that really spoke to me. I'm like, well, that's not me. That was literally the whole. And it just shows you, man. It's like we, yeah. When we get to the end of ourselves and he steps in, that's really when the good stuff happens. I'd love to hear, like, how this has impacted you, you and like the family. You kind of alluded to that a little bit early on. But just what has this journey been like for just, you know, your marriage and your family, your kids, how's that been?
- [64:15]
D
Yeah, I mean, overall, absolutely beautiful. We have kids that are old enough to. I couldn't have done it with littles. Right. This is too hard. So the timing for us came when we had older kids that were a little bit more self sufficient, some adult kids. One of our kids is working on the show as well. And so it's been very. It has definitely strengthened our tribe because, you know, you're. This is a very unique experience to go through as a, as a family.
- [64:42]
A
And like the moment we started doing the show, everything got worse in our lives. Like, we had more. We've had more.
- [64:50]
D
Harder.
- [64:51]
A
Yeah.
- [64:51]
D
Harder.
- [64:51]
A
Yeah. We've had more medical crises in the last five years than we'd had in 20 years previously.
- [64:59]
D
Yeah. And that's true for a lot of. That's true for almost everyone who comes to work for us. We joke about it, we call it the chosen curse. And families are like, whoa, we really came up against hard things. So we're super proactive. We, like I said, we have a great marriage council. We have a great network of friends. So we really are. Their marriage is. Is great. But not because it's all easy, because I think because we've trauma bonded and it's hard and we've worked through things and you're on the. We feel like we're on front lines at this season and are very grateful to be there. But as a family, it's been really, really hard. So I wouldn't. Not too hard to not want to be there. I want to remain there. I feel very blessed to be able to see what we're up front, what God is doing in the world and to have such a hand in that. But. But no, it's. It's hard. And I think, I think that's true for any line of work, honestly, when you're like, when God's. God's never going to leave you in a place where he's not challenging you to have that hard conversation or go make that decision in faith or trust him when finances fall apart or whatever it is, he just loves us enough to make sure we're all suffering independent all the time. So I just feel like ours has been a potent version of that. But yeah, I don't want to say it's all bad because, I mean, again, we hear from children to senior citizens of what God is doing in their lives and it levels us. We just were at a football game ever since football game on Friday night and these little kids came by and double checked, did a double take with Dallas. I mean, we're talking like 8, 9, 10. And they were like, we sure love your show, mister. It was like, I'm like, this is the cutest thing ever. That these little kids. I watch your show all the time. I love watching Jesus. And you're like, I. We did not see that coming. We thought we were making a TV.
- [66:57]
A
Show because the show is like a challenging. Like, it's not a kids show. Like, it's even just the plots are like complicated. Like, we wrote the show with. For adults in mind. I mean, it wasn't. I mean, even. I mean, the. This is not your average Jesus show. Like, it opens with like Mary Magdalene as A child, you know, and then losing her father and being demon possessed, blood all over her hands.
- [67:19]
B
Yeah.
- [67:19]
A
I'm like, this is the first, this is the opening of the show. And when a 10 year old is asking the director of the show for a selfie because it's about Jesus and they love it, it's such a blessing.
- [67:30]
D
People in the special needs community who shouldn't otherwise be understanding the content, people in other parts of the world. We had a one early on, we had a family in China who the, the mom was the only one who spoke English and yet she was saying to us, my family is understanding, is watching, wants to push play on the next one. There is something God, even though it.
- [67:51]
A
Wasn'T even translated in their language at that time.
- [67:54]
D
God, we're watching God do this thing for. He's telling his story right around the world. And so our family specifically gets to see that, hear that and then, and then grow in our own faith as we're, as we're going through our own challenges. And so it's been, I would say overall beautiful, but not in the way you might think. Right. Just by watching from the outside, have.
- [68:18]
B
Y' all lost any sense of normalcy as far as like local church plugged in? Like, I know you did that first episode for the local church. Like, how has like the fame or notoriety, like, what has that done? And have y' all been able to like anchor in when you're not filming? This is our normal life. And also kids, man, kids, it's hard when they're like, their parents are known now and I mean. Yeah. What's that been like?
- [68:43]
A
Yeah, that's, that's a really good question. Because there was a point the normalcy went away. We moved to Texas because that's where we filmed the show. So, so. And yeah, for many reasons we don't have the, the same normalcy that we used to have. We have friends who we've been with, you know, in small group for, for years who couldn't care less about, you know, that's awesome. The show and I mean they watch the show but they, they don't care any at all about the success.
- [69:11]
B
They were with you in the resurrection of.
- [69:14]
A
They were, they were, they were there in the failure too. Yeah. But they don't care about any of that stuff. But it was interesting that when a couple years ago, I don't remember when this was, but when the whole Pride Flag controversy came up because we had a, one of our crew members who had a three inch Pride flag on his own Personal equipment. And someone saw it in a behind the scenes video and they. It became this kind of controversy and it became this very, you know, well, popular, talked about thing for a couple weeks while I was trying to film the show. And so I remember reaching out to my pastor at our church, who we'd met a couple of times, but we weren't in Texas. Our new church, super plugged in. And I said, I'm going to be making a public statement here. I'm like, I'm experiencing all this public stuff. I'm like, I don't really have people right now.
- [70:01]
D
Yeah, for a little bit we had, we weren't plugged in as we're like.
- [70:04]
A
Hey, yeah, just to kind of go through this with us. And one of the things he said was he goes, you need people in your lives who aren't impressed with you. You. And I'm like, oh, believe me, I want that. I don't want. Like, that's great. So. So we got that. That kind of. There's been a couple of things that have kind of forced us to be. To remember the importance of the local church and of small group and of staying grounded and all that kind of stuff. And I don't want to sound like, you know, we were, yes, the show has been successful.
- [70:33]
D
We're able to move freely in the world. We're not.
- [70:37]
A
Now that we've had so much success, let me share with you challenges that we're facing.
- [70:48]
D
Yeah, but, yeah, it happens occasionally.
- [70:50]
A
Yeah, but when God, when God is using something globally. Yeah, usually the people involved then experience a little bit of a unique. It's a unique situation to be in. So. Yeah, but, but, but, yeah, we, with our kids and all that, they, again, there are times when it can be kind of overwhelming, but they get to see the blessing of lives being impacted. And we do have a genuinely healthy understanding of our role in it. That's why, again, the name of the company, the Five and two Studios. I actually have a tattoo. So does she. It's five and two.
- [71:27]
B
That's cool.
- [71:28]
D
Mine isn't quite as obnoxious.
- [71:30]
A
Mine's five and Two.
- [71:32]
B
Y' all better know.
- [71:33]
D
I'm like, it's a nod.
- [71:35]
A
She's got a cute little five and two on her ankle. No, but we genuinely are constantly reminding ourselves through even the name of our company and even among a family, we'll say to each other, like, remember the 5 and 2 principle because it applies to small things too, even in relationships, like, don't force it. Don't get ahead of Yourself. It's a day by day bringing my five loaves and two fish together.
- [71:57]
D
It's going to apply in parenting like crazy because you're not going to know what you're doing. You're going to be doing your best with the information that you have in the moment. The results aren't always what you want them to be. That didn't go the way I wanted, or my kid didn't make the choice I wanted them to make or whatever. And you're just always going back to this place of like, earnestly do what you can do earnestly, be faithful, be obedient, but trust the Lord with the outcome and good and bad, and trust that the outcome isn't set. Meaning the failure of this moment doesn't mean God isn't doing something beautiful. We're seeing that in the world right now. Right. With Charlie Kirk stuff, where you go, this moment is terrible. This moment is awful, no matter what side of the aisle you're on. And yet look at what God is doing and what God will continue to do through such a horrible thing. And I think we. That in at its core is this 5 and 2 of, like, this little boy. All he had. It was so God didn't need it. Right. But he used it and he allowed his people to be a part of it. And then he did a really amazing thing.
- [72:52]
A
So we talk about God's tone of voice, too. So God's tone of voice, when he first said to me, me, it's not your job to feed the 5,000. It's only to provide the loaves.
- [73:00]
D
It was a comforting.
- [73:01]
A
It's like a comforting, like, hey, man, you don't need to worry about the 5,000. Just worry about your 5 and 2. Well, then when the 5,000 were fed and our show has, you know, the chosen has become this big thing. And now God's tone of voice is, remember, yeah. Your job, you didn't feed the 5,000. Your job is only to provide the loaves and fish. That's all you're responsible for. So we really do seek to practice that. And it does. It does make it easier to stay grounded. I know I'm not this good. I really do. It's not a false modesty. I know I'm not capable of doing a show that transcends languages. And like, that's. I'm. I'm a pretty good filmmaker and I'm making a good show, I think. But it's like, come on, let's. Let's be real.
- [73:43]
D
There will always be resurrection of Gavin Stone.
- [73:45]
A
I'm still the guy who did the resurrection of Gavin Stone.
- [73:48]
B
We're going to make you watch that.
- [73:49]
C
Yeah, Watch party. We'll have a little watch party here.
- [73:52]
B
Who's your favorite character?
- [73:54]
C
Well, it's, you know, kind of hard to beat Jesus, but we, we do love, we do love our boy Peter.
- [73:58]
B
Yeah, I'm a big Matthew.
- [74:00]
C
You're a big Matthew.
- [74:00]
B
I like Matthew, man.
- [74:01]
A
Yeah, we hear, we hear Matthew a lot.
- [74:03]
B
They're all likable. All have their individual. I, I really have loved the characters.
- [74:08]
C
This, this conversation has been truly so good and I know impacting so many people who are listening to this. And also I'm so excited for you guys who haven't watched the Chosen to go and watch the Chosen. Watch it to go and check out this Bible study, the Chosen interactive Bible study, the stronghold of the Chosen, which I'm excited for us to dive into together.
- [74:27]
A
What it does is just real quick, each, each Bible study for each season, it takes like, you can watch the episode and it's for groups or for individuals, but you watch the episode and then this gives you like, there's prayer prompts, there's charts and graphs. There's even sections called for Bible nerds like us. But it's not just for the people who know the Bible deeply. It's to kind of go, okay, I saw that scene. And is that in the Bible too? Or. Okay, part of it is, but part of it isn't. So we always like to say, like the Bible study and the Bible, of course, are going to give you the ultimate source of truth. The show is to kind of give you some context. But we recognize that there's moments in the show that aren't directly from the Bible that we don't know if they happened or not. They're plausible, but not necessarily factual. And so that Bible study we found from the people who've used it, they all come back and go, okay, this is like, again, things are awakening and I'm seeing things more clearly than ever. So. But it takes you through the episodes are kind of an excuse to get you deeper into the Bible.
- [75:32]
D
Yeah, we take a theme of the season, really, and then we narrow down on the scripture that supports that theme of the season. So there's script, excerpt and there's some themes of the show, but it really.
- [75:40]
A
Is the season five is Stronghold of the Chosen, because season five, which takes you through the triumphal entry, the Last Supper, it talks about these things that even in the midst of Holy Week, which are challenging, like what are the strongholds that God and Jesus is our stronghold.
- [75:55]
D
And the idea of the triumphal entry on this humble donkey and he's coming back on a white horse, you know, this idea of this is who we're.
- [76:01]
C
Hosanna. I know. I just saw that.
- [76:03]
A
So you say it Hosanna too, right?
- [76:05]
C
Yeah.
- [76:05]
A
So Jonathan is always saying, dallas, it's Hosanna.
- [76:10]
B
We named our daughter Hosanna.
- [76:12]
D
Oh, yeah.
- [76:13]
B
And everyone will be. And everyone's like, people are like, hosanna.
- [76:17]
D
Yeah.
- [76:18]
A
I'm like, I'm from Chicago.
- [76:19]
B
It's Hosanna.
- [76:22]
C
Alabama. And I'm like, it's Hosanna.
- [76:24]
A
Yeah.
- [76:24]
C
This is Zanna. You know what I'm saying? No. This is so good. I'm so excited to go through this. And we're so grateful for yalls time for yalls ministry, for the way God is using you both. And. And I also hope that this is encouraging to everyone. Listening to it matters so much. The content that we take in. It matters so much what we're watching, what we're listening to, what we're feeding ourselves. And that's going to have a huge impact on who we're becoming. And so the importance of making sure you're, you know, following and taking in content and listening to things that are actually going to push you closer to Jesus is something that we talk about a lot on Stay True because it matters. I don't like the question, how close to sin can I get? But how close to God can I get? And when you watch shows like the Chosen do Bible studies from the Chosen, it will push you closer to God. And that's so encouraging. And so we're so thankful for y'. All. And I would love if you would just close us in prayer as we wrap up the. The episode.
- [77:19]
D
Sure. Lord, you are a good God in all the things we're thankful for. For seasons of humbling and of suffering and affliction in order to know you more, in order to understand Jesus's suffering more, and ultimately to understand life in you. So thank you for right sizing us and setting our course, and thank you for allowing us to participate in your kingdom work. God, we are grateful. We love you and we thank you in Jesus Jesus name.
- [77:50]
A
Yeah.
- [77:50]
C
Amen.
- [77:51]
B
Amen.
- [77:52]
C
And now we all want to go watch the Resurrection of Gavin.
- [77:57]
B
I want to watch season six so bad. When does it come out?
- [78:00]
C
I'm waiting.
- [78:00]
A
Season six comes out. Do we have a date? Yeah. Well, not exact date, but fallish. Fallish of. Of 2026. Okay.
- [78:08]
D
You got a minute.
- [78:08]
B
Okay, we'll have to rewatch one through five.
- [78:11]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll just run it back.
- [78:13]
A
Well, we've got the chosen animated series coming out very soon. It's called the Chosen Adventures.
- [78:18]
B
Wow.
- [78:19]
A
Launches on Prime Video and then ultimately on YouTube. But it's. That's again where the kids especially can. Can watch it. Remember season one, episode three where Jesus and the. And the children.
- [78:29]
B
Kids.
- [78:30]
A
And it's Joshua and Abby are the two kind of main characters. Well, the Chosen Adventures is now their story. Seeing Jesus through their eyes.
- [78:37]
D
They intersect with all these characters and so funny. It's fun, it's fresh.
- [78:41]
A
So there's more coming, more coming to tide you over until season six comes on.
- [78:46]
C
We're so excited and I'm going to include the link to all of these amazing things so that you guys can go and check it out. And as we always say, as always, guys, be sure to stay you stay true. We love you.
- [79:05]
B
Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to libsyn ads.com that's lib s y n ads.com today.