← Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
The Upside Down Kingdom: Living Set-Apart with Jeanine Amapola Ward
01:07:25
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- [00:00]
A
Why is the kingdom upside down? Everything about following Jesus is countercultural. We are to be different. Love your enemies and pray for your enemies.
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B
Jesus says, no, lose your life. Lose your life.
- [00:12]
A
To gain your life, you're never going to naturally drift towards holiness, holiness and godliness. You have to wake up and choose it. What you feed is what is going to lead. What would you say are some, like, daily practices of ways that people can deny themselves?
- [00:28]
B
What if he leaves me? What if my job fails? What if this doesn't work out when you have Christ? It's the even if mindset.
- [00:33]
A
Am I living a life that truly honors God? Am I living a life that is an upside down kingdom? Christians should be the most joyful people in the entire world because we have a joy and a hope that can't be taken. What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout, here with my best friend.
- [01:02]
B
Hey, bestie.
- [01:03]
A
Was that good singing?
- [01:04]
B
That was great.
- [01:04]
A
Okay, thanks. I think I'm pregnant. I can sing better.
- [01:08]
B
Why do you think that is?
- [01:09]
A
I don't know.
- [01:10]
B
You think she has the gift of singing?
- [01:11]
A
No, I really do, actually. I think that the Lord, like, spoke to me that I say, I think, because, I don't know, it's one of those things that I'm like, I never want to be like God.
- [01:20]
B
Yeah.
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A
So I just say, I think he laid on my heart that she's gonna be something with worship, something with singing. We're not sure if it's like, her life is a song to the Lord.
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B
Okay.
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A
Her life is worship to the Lord. Or if it's like, no, she's gonna be a singer because you don't want to.
- [01:37]
B
We're about to find out, you know? Yeah.
- [01:39]
A
Pressure. Anyways, welcome to the podcast.
- [01:42]
B
I'm so happy to be here.
- [01:44]
A
You're the person who's been on here the most, besides Grant.
- [01:46]
B
No, I think when, like. Because I want to have you on again. I think you're, like, the most reoccurring guest, and I'm not mad about it.
- [01:52]
A
I. This is your third time, and I've only had this podcast for, like, eight months.
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B
I'm a. I'm a veteran at this point.
- [01:59]
A
Now she's a co host.
- [02:01]
B
Pretty much add me to the list.
- [02:02]
A
And she's in our house in Tennessee.
- [02:05]
B
I can't believe this is my first time at their new house. It's so cute. And you are about to pop.
- [02:11]
A
I am. I'm really close.
- [02:12]
B
I'm pregnant.
- [02:13]
A
She's pregnant. Okay. When they're listening to this, though, I think baby girl is going to be here.
- [02:18]
B
That is so crazy.
- [02:20]
A
Insane.
- [02:21]
B
I always, like, envision what she's gonna look like, and I feel like she's gonna look like you, but I keep seeing this, like, little brunette with, like, blue eyes, and it's so cute. I just. I can't wait to meet her. I cannot wait.
- [02:33]
A
So crazy. I. It's so weird, too, when you get this far along because you're. All you're thinking about is, like, what are you gonna look like? What are you gonna look like? What are you gonna be like? So I think about it all the time, but Janine is also pregnant. And right now you're about halfway. Halfway, which is hu.
- [02:48]
B
Yep. I got a little bump going. We have our anatomy scan next week. So crazy. You get to see his face a little bit, I think. Is that right?
- [02:56]
A
Yeah.
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B
And it's. I'm going to cry.
- [02:58]
A
And so she's pregnant with a boy. So they're going to get married.
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B
Yep. I mean, they. It's already, like an arranged marriage. They don't have a.
- [03:04]
A
So much pressure on my daughter already. And she's not even here. I'm like, she's a s. They, like, hate each other. Going to get married to Blank Ward.
- [03:11]
B
Yeah. I can't say his name. Blank Ward.
- [03:13]
A
I won't say his name. But you know the name.
- [03:15]
B
Oh, I know the name.
- [03:16]
A
I think we figured out the.
- [03:18]
B
Yay.
- [03:19]
A
I think we figured out about the name. You guys. When I tell you, like, she could come any second now, and Grant and I just decided on the name.
- [03:27]
B
Let's go.
- [03:28]
A
We just decided. I was about to have a mental breakdown because I was like, she's gonna be here, and I'm not gonna have.
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B
Like, what do I do?
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A
She's gonna be just baby girl Trap. Yeah.
- [03:37]
B
It was so hard, though, because her baby showers this weekend, and I wanted to do, like, monogrammed or, like, a baby blanket, and I was. I just kept bombarding her. I'm like, do you know yet? Do you know yet?
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A
No.
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B
Adding pressure. And I was like, I'm sorry.
- [03:48]
A
Knowing my sweet mom, too. Every day she's like, have you figured. Want to do monogram? And I'm like, relax.
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B
Like, I have no idea.
- [03:56]
A
It's hard. It's a lot of pressure. You're like, this is going to be your name for the rest of your life.
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B
Right. And you want it to, like, mean something and mean something to y'all and not just something you came up with on the Fly. Like, yeah. I'm so excited.
- [04:08]
A
Really crazy. But I just. I can't believe it. Like, we've been through so much together.
- [04:12]
B
So much.
- [04:13]
A
And God is so kind. Like, we prayed right before this episode, and I just thanked the Lord because I was like, God is so kind to have allowed us to go through seasons together. Like, we're in this season together.
- [04:24]
B
Yeah. You're just like. I feel like you've always been, like, one smidge of a step ahead of me, where you, like, got married first or you got engaged first, and then you got your. You got pregnant first. But I've always been, like, a couple steps behind. But it's always still had some sort of crossover.
- [04:39]
A
Yeah.
- [04:40]
B
And that's just been so fun, like, being able to be like, how's your wedding planning? Or how's your pregnancy?
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A
It's literally the best.
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B
It's, like, so fun.
- [04:47]
A
It's such a gift from the Lord. But then there's, like, other areas that, like, I feel like when it comes to work and calling and what we're called to do, I'm asking Janine, like, a bajillion questions. Whenever I started this podcast, I was like, can you help me? I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what to buy. I don't know how to set it up. I don't know what anything's called. And she's like, oh, the HDMI cable. I don't even know what that is. I just made that up. Is that even a thing?
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B
No, it's totally.
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A
Okay, cool.
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B
Before we were filming, so there's, like, a soundboard that has a record button. And normally you just say, like, oh, can you hit record or hit start? Maddie was like, can you mash the buttons? And I was like, mash.
- [05:21]
A
Grant makes so much fun of me. I don't know. I have, like, these words. I say things really weird. I used to say for the longest time, like, the color. Like, I would say orange Wrong. Am I saying it right? Right now?
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B
Orange.
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A
Orange.
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B
What did you say?
- [05:34]
A
I think I used to say orange.
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B
Is that just, like, an Alabama thing?
- [05:37]
A
I would say orange, and then I say mash when I'm insinuating, like, press. Like, can you press the button? And I say, can you mash the button?
- [05:47]
B
Something that my family says that's super weird. We don't say, can you unplug it? We say, can you plug it out? Oh, I've always said that. And then people like it out. Little people are like, you can't plug it out. And I was like, you can't. I'm like, life. I've said plug it out.
- [06:00]
A
That's hilarious. You do say some words. Weird.
- [06:02]
B
Yeah. You really parents for that.
- [06:04]
A
You really, like, emphasize things.
- [06:06]
B
Yeah, Like, I'll say button instead of.
- [06:08]
A
But yeah, like, your T's. That's what it is. Your T's are. There's a lot of emphasis on the teeth.
- [06:12]
B
That's what, like, Germans do. So I think got it from that. But then you say, I've told you this, but you didn't agree with me. You never just end with a G. You'll say, like, think. Like, you'll, like, really emphasize the think.
- [06:24]
A
Really?
- [06:25]
B
Yeah. Like, I'm trying to think of another word. Something, something, something. Like, you won't say something, you'll say something.
- [06:32]
A
What I've never noticed about myself, guys, but if the best friend says so, it is so. It is so. Well, I'm so excited you're back on the podcast. Me too. This is. I've told, like, the whole Stay True squ that I am probably now holding my baby and probably looking like a hot mess with sweats on. Probably haven't showered in a few days. That's probably my reality, like, right in this moment when this episode's coming out. But I wanted to batch out some content, and I thought it was really fun to kind of have like, a few weeks, maybe three or four weeks of just, like, diving into scripture and kind of making it a little bit more like a Bible study. It's still podcast vibes. We're still, you know, talking about all the things, real life things, but really turning to scripture and kind of having, like, a topic of what. What do we want to talk about? And so today I was texting Janine about this, literally last night, and both of us woke up this morning. We're like, okay, so what are we talking about again?
- [07:29]
B
Are you prepared for this?
- [07:30]
A
What's the scripture on our hearts? No, but we are going to be talking about the upside down kingdom.
- [07:37]
B
I love.
- [07:38]
A
This topic is one of our favorite things I love to talk about. And I think that it kind of. When you just hear that, it sounds a little negative. Like, it's, like, upside down. Like something's wrong with it. Like, it's like, why is the kingdom upside down? But when you follow Jesus, really what it's saying is, like, everything about following Jesus is countercultural. It is. Everything about following Jesus looks opposite than how this world chooses to live. As followers of Jesus, as Christians, we are to be set apart. We are to be different. And so even in reading through, like, the Gospels, every time I read through the Gospels, which is probably going to be a lot of where. Where we're drawing from today in our conversation, but every time I read the Gospels, I'm like, Jesus just flipped the script.
- [08:22]
B
Absolutely.
- [08:23]
A
Like, everything you think is like, yeah, normal, good, and what everyone's doing, Jesus is like, no.
- [08:29]
B
Yeah. And even, like, immediately when you say upside down kingdom, like, an example of that would be where you think, like, a king, for example, is to be served and he has golden robes and everyone's, like, bowing down to him, and of course, we will all bow to Jesus one day. But Jesus literally came to serve, not to be served. That's an example of, like, an upside down example. Because, you know, when you think of kings, you think of royalty, and he has all these people feeding him grapes and fanning him. And don't be mistaken, like, Jesus up there on the throne, but he came to serve us. And that's an example of, like, what we're called to do is to serve and not to be served.
- [09:07]
A
So that's so good. I think that's Mark 10:45, where it says the son of man came to serve and not be served and to give his life as a ransom for many. And that is one example of, like, what Janine is saying, of how it's so opposite of what we're trained to do and follow and desire in our culture today and in our world today. And I think it's gotten, like, worse. Of course, we haven't lived in other generations, so, like.
- [09:33]
B
Right.
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A
I don't know. But I really do think because of the progression of, like, social media and all of that, it's just made especially the desire for, like, power and status and money that much higher. I mean, it's really crazy. And I really want to, like, jump into a bunch of different scriptures and kind of get into some teachings. But I think starting out, I'd love to just hear, like, from you, like, what your experience has been like with pursuing this, like, upside down kingdom mindset. Because it is so it's like a die to yourself daily. Oh, yeah. And a choose Jesus over everything daily. And so what has that journey been like for you? And how are you doing that daily?
- [10:16]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think when you go from not walking with Christ and then walking with Christ, when you're not walking with Christ, you follow whatever your flesh wants to do. Yeah, it's like, oh, I want to eat right now. I want a Texas guy. I want to go out. I want to drink. It's like whatever your flesh desires, you just follow. And when you are a Christian, the Bible says to deny yourself and take up your cross. And that is an ultimate re wiring of like, okay, I'm going to deny to my flesh and then follow what the Spirit says. And the spirit is whatever is truthful. It's glorifying, it's edifying the spirit, it's honoring God. It's not whatever you want to do. Whatever your instant impulses are or whatever your body just says, okay, I want to do that. Well, I'm going to do it then. And that is, I think, the biggest transition you'll see when you go from, like, death to life is you can't just do whatever your mind tells you to do. You have to take your thoughts captive. And so, you know, I think for me specifically, it is a lot of that. Like, okay, I don't just get to go and like, drink or get to text that guy or make an impulse buy just because I can. Or it's. I mean, there's a lot of examples. But I think if you listen to my story or my, my book or whatever, you hear more of that. Like, what I was doing before was only me, me, me, me, me. It's like the world says, like, live your best life and we'll talk more about this. But like, Jesus says, no, lose your life. Lose your life to gain your life. And I think that is what changed my life is like, oh, in order for me to live my quote unquote best life, that means like, literally dying to myself, getting rid of all my selfish fleshly desires that the world glorifies, and picking up my cross and following Jesus. And then you will get your best life. And so I have found that to be so, so true.
- [12:10]
A
It's so good. She preaching. And we're a few minutes in. I hope y'all are taking notes. No, that's so good, because it is so true. It's. It's so opposite of our natural sinful wiring, which is to desire glory for ourself, which is to feed our flesh, which is to follow our feelings, which is to follow culture and just do whatever we want to do.
- [12:30]
B
Yeah.
- [12:31]
A
And, you know, build our, our own kingdom. Like, I think what's so interesting about the upside down kingdom is that it's all a kingdom you can't see. And it's eternal kingdom. It's a heavenly kingdom, and it's all about Jesus. But what this world preaches is like, build your own kingdom. You know, build your own throne, build your own. And it's like, it's so opposite. Jesus is like, you're saying, deny yourself, Pick up your cross, follow me. And I think that's so good. What would you say, like, looks like, from a practical sense, to deny yourself? Because I think it's such Christian lingo that we say all the time, right? And, like, I'm actually genuinely curious. I'm like, yeah, what would you say? Because I hear that and I grow up in the church, you know, hearing that, you know, deny your flesh, deny yourself. And, you know, maybe if someone's listening and they're newer to their faith or, I don't know, maybe you're a Christian and you've been a Christian your whole life, but you're just like, I don't really know what that looks like, practically. What would you say are some, like, daily practices of ways that people can deny themselves?
- [13:31]
B
I mean, I would definitely say, you know, one practical thing. And I can think of another one that's more like spiritual. But, like, a practical thing is, like, people typically on social media, you'll go online and they'll say, you know, wake up. Do your vision board. Manifest whatever you want to manifest. Meditate, empty your mind. And I think a practical way is say, okay, wake up. Give your first fruits to the Lord. Go to scripture. Don't just meditate and empty your mind. Meditate on scripture and give the Lord, like your morning and ask God. Like, I think this is the more spiritual thing, is spiritually telling God, God, not my will, but your will. Because again, if you look at culture, it's like, okay, I'm going to manifest this. I'm going to make this in my own timing. I want this dream guy, this dream timeline, this finance. I'm going to write down this specific number. I want a followers and fame and money. And when you deny yourself, you say, God, I'm willing for my plans to be interrupted. I'm willing for my plans to not go the way that I want. Because, God, you know better than I do.
- [14:35]
A
Yeah.
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B
And I think that is the ultimate surrender is like literally telling God, I will move. I will break up with this person. I will change career paths. I will, you know, live a simpler life. If that's what you're asking me to do, to simply follow you. That is the hardest thing. Because, again, you want what you want. And I mean, who doesn't want that? Who doesn't want their dream guy in this financial status or whatever? And when you follow God, you literally just. You put those down and you say, God, whatever you want, I'm willing to follow. And I think that's what it practically looks like. And that's so good. Really hard to do.
- [15:11]
A
That's so good. But what a good, like, encouragement of when you wake up in the morning, really having this mindset, and you have to. You have to choose. This is not going to come naturally. And I think you posted about this actually on social media yesterday or a couple days ago, but you're never going to naturally drift towards holiness, holiness and godliness. Like, you have to wake up and choose it. You have to wake up and say, okay, my flesh right now, you know, wants to scroll on social media for hours. My flesh right now wants to, you know, look at something I know I shouldn't look at. My flesh right now wants to lay in bed all day and binge watch Netflix my fl. Whatever it is for you. That's like, you know, a temptation, a trigger, a desire that you know is not of God. You're going to naturally drift towards that. But you have to choose, like, no, I'm going to deny my flesh. That's what my flesh wants. But I'm going to choose what the Spirit is calling me to do, which is to deny my flesh. Get in the presence of the Lord and say, God, not my will, but your will be done. And then I'm asking the Holy Spirit to fill me with the Spirit. Because if, like, we're just filled, like, you have to empty yourself of your flesh, but then you have to also, like, fill yourself with the spirit, because you're going to be filled with something. Like, something's coming out of you, and you're either full of the flesh or you're full of the spirit. And it talks about in Romans that the mind governed by the flesh leads to death, but the mind governed by the spirit leads to a life of peace. And so we all want peace. We all want, you know, this life of fulfillment and this, like, freedom and this life and this contentment and all these things. But what we don't realize is so often it comes in the form of what you were saying. Lose your life. Like, you lose your life, deny yourself. And that's how you find the life of peace. When you're led by the spirit, when you're filled with the spirit, and when you're living for the things of God and not yourself.
- [17:02]
B
Yeah.
- [17:03]
A
Which I think is just so important because I just. I look at our world today and it's. It's so hard. Like, it really is. It's really hard to. In every aspect of your life, to have an upside down kingdom mindset. Like, truly.
- [17:20]
B
I mean, 100.
- [17:21]
A
For me. Like, for me, like, it's hard for me to keep that mindset all throughout the day. Like, I'll wake up and I'm like, my quiet time, like, yeah. So you're like, I'm amazing. God, you're so good.
- [17:32]
B
Yeah.
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A
And I want to live for you.
- [17:33]
B
And I want to be disciplined.
- [17:35]
A
And then I leave the house. And then it's like temptation, you know, sin, thoughts, fears, insecurities, comparison. All these different things that come up that caused me to then start being like, well, you know, they got this opportunity. Why didn't I get this opportunity? Or I want to grow, you know, my social media following because this is what they have. Or, you know, I need to make more money, because then if I make more money, then I can make a bigger difference or if I can have a bigger platform, then I can make a bigger difference. And we're going through our day. Me, me, me, me, me. When I walk into a room, what do they think about me? You know, what are. How are they going to serve me? And it's so hard, like, throughout your day to keep that oh, it's so hard mindset.
- [18:18]
B
But I think that just shows, like, the humanness of us.
- [18:21]
A
Yeah.
- [18:21]
B
That ultimately, like, that is why we need a savior, because we're so broken. But, like, I think it's in John 14 where Jesus says, like, if you ask anything in my name, it'll be given to you. And if you ask the Holy Spirit to help you, he will. But again, as Maddie was saying, like, this is such a discipline. Like, we're not even here. Like, we have this all figured out because we are so human. We still have sin, we still have fleshly thoughts, like jealousy, comparison, struggles, insecurities, all these things. But it just reminds you to go back to the Savior and just say, God, I need you to help me. And that's why the Holy Spirit is called the helper. And thank God for that, because there's no way I could do this on my own. There's absolutely no way. Yeah, I've tried to do it in my own way, and it clearly didn't work.
- [19:01]
A
No, that's such a good point. Because we, not we never want to communic the message. Like, we've got it all together and nothing's ever hard. It's like, no. No matter how long you've been following Jesus, no Matter how long you've been doing this, and even if you have a microphone in your hand, even if you have your own church that you're leading, there's still going to be temptations. There's still going to be moments that are really, really hard. There's still going to be moments where you fall short. That's going to happen. However, I think what's so important when we're talking about the upside down kingdom and living set apart and living this countercultural life is that you have to realize that what you feed is what is going to lead. And so if you are feeding your flesh constantly, that is going to lead your life. If you are feeding your spirit constantly, that is what's going to lead your life. And so who are you letting be the driver? Like, who's in the driver's seat? Who are you giving access to lead your life? And I think a lot of times we don't think about it. Like, we kind of just get in this zone where we're like, oh, you know, I don't know, like, why did I make that decision? Oh, I have so much regret. Dang it. I wish I would have been better about this, you know, or even, like, end of the year, it's like, we just started a new year. It's like, oh, end of the year. Dang it. I didn't accomplish the goals that I had. And I have all these regrets throughout my year. That doesn't have to be our story. Like, we could actually choose every single day to wake up, submit ourselves to Christ, to be filled with the Spirit, and to die to ourself, and then choose in advance before the moments of pressure or temptation come, like, how we're going to respond and give the Holy Spirit the driver's seat to lead and direct and guide our life instead of we'll see how we feel or we'll see what happens.
- [20:43]
B
Okay. Made for this moment a little book plug. No, but that was the whole message of your book, and it's so real.
- [20:52]
A
Yeah, I know.
- [20:52]
B
I was like, she's preaching over here from her book. But I just wanted to give the scripture so that people actually know what we're talking about. Yeah, it's Matthew 10:39. And he says, whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it. And so you're not just losing it for just, like, no reason. You're not like, oh, I'm just gonna get rid of it? Like, yeah. And obviously, no, no one wants to do that. Like, everyone in Our culture puts themselves first. I saw this tick tock. It was actually so funny. And this guy was, like, roasting this girl, but he was like, I saw this girl's New Year's resolutions, and on her first resolution, it was, put myself first. And I was like, we don't have a problem putting ourselves first. We are a me first, society and culture. Like, we don't have any issue putting ourselves first because we are born into a selfish nature. That's who we are. We are a sinful people who want to always put ourselves first. And that's why Jesus is saying, lose your life. Because serving people first, putting other people first, thinking of other people's first is so hard to do. I struggle with this daily. I mean, that was literally my prayer last night was like, lord, help me think of other people more than myself. And another scripture that talks about this is Matthew 20:16. It says, so the last shall be first, and the first shall be last, for many will be called, but fewer chosen. So again, it's just God is asking us to consider ourselves last, which we don't do that. Like, when there's a buffet at a wedding, girl, you better know you're running up first to go to the line of the buffet, because you don't want to be waiting in line. You don't want other people going before you. Like, I know that's me. I'm like, I don't want to wait in line. And so it is truly like, how can you put other people first? And that's probably like, my number one thorn in my flesh is like, God, help me think of other people before myself.
- [22:37]
A
That's so good. And there's so many, like, little ways that we can do that every day to where it does become more of a natural instinct. Like, I do think that there are moments we can. Like, I'm the first person to say, I get road rage, okay? And so when I get in the car and someone cuts me off, I'm, like, ready to honk. I'm ready to, like, drive up on their tail and be like, what are you doing? And I think that one way we can work on, like, just a small little thing is like, when you're in your car and when you're driving and someone wants to get over, let them get over. When you're at a buffet and everyone wants to get up and go first, let other people go first. Even if that means your food's a little bit more cold. You know, if, like, there's little things like that that I think we can implement that will start to create that others focused and others first mentality.
- [23:31]
B
Yeah. You know, like, and you can train for that also. Specifically, you will see this in marriage because in marriage, everybody likes to be served. You want your husband to wine and dine you, which he should be doing, but also you marriage is thinking about, how can I serve my spouse? And I think that's also where you really see it manifest. And also with friendships, like, you can try that out in friendships. Right now, even if my friend can't serve me right now, can I still serve them? Or even if my husband can't serve me right now, can I make him breakfast instead of only ever expecting him to serve me? And it is give and take. But sometimes, you know, you just have to put yourself in like, that mindset of, okay, if they never gave me anything, what I still love them, what I still serve them.
- [24:11]
A
That's so good. And why, like, why is this what Jesus calls us to do? I think something that's so cool about Jesus is that he never asks us to do something that he doesn't do first. And so when he says, love your neighbor as yourself, when he says, lose your life to find your life, when he says, deny your flesh, pick up your cross, when he says, you know, I don't know, like, whatever, be the, be the greatest servant. If you want to be a great leader, be the greatest servant. Just know he's not just calling you to do that. He's gonna do that himself first and he's gonna lead the way. And then he's gonna give you his Holy Spirit to help you follow the way. So he is called the way. He leads the way. And then he's gonna give you his Holy Spirit to help you follow in the way that he's called us to, to walk in. Because I think we forget that so often. It's like, Jesus, why are you asking me to do that? Like, that feels unfair, that feels hard, that feels whatever. And he's like, this is the way. And this is the way that I led so that you may follow. And this is the way that leads to life. And it might be a way right now that feels like lack, but eventually in an eternity, it is a life that leads to eternal life. It's a way that leads to eternal life.
- [25:26]
B
And that's so good.
- [25:27]
A
I think we forget that. We just get so caught up in the here and now.
- [25:30]
B
Well, I think that's such a good reminder because, like, say you're at a job and your boss is telling to do all these things, and you never see him do that. You're going to get probably pretty resentful or you would be like, you're such a hypocrite. You're telling me to go out there and do all these things, but I've never once seen you do it. Like, Jesus truly was the most perfect sacrifice and the most perfect example. And I love that you brought that up because, like, Jesus is such a great leader. Like, a great leader is going to lead first by saying, I'll go first. And that's what he did.
- [26:01]
A
Yeah, I think that's such a great point because even in thinking about now becoming a mom, right, I'm like, I have to really think about that. I can't ask something of my daughter that, like, I'm not willing to do. You know, it's like. And even in asking for obedience from my daughter, right, hey, you obey your mom and dad. It's also because you obey your heavenly father. Like, this is all for God. And so when you obey your mom and dad, you're obeying God, and mom and dad are called to obey God, and mom and dad are called to honor our Father and mother. And so we are demonstrating that when we tell, you know, our kids to, you know, wake up and read the Bible immediately or pray first or tithe at the beginning of the month, it's like we are modeling that we are doing that ourselves. And so it. I think it is such a good point that Jesus said, like, follow me, you know, and even Paul, like, Paul's like, hey, follow me as I follow Christ. He's like, hey, all of these things I'm writing to you because Paul wrote like half the New Testament. He's like, everything I'm telling you to do, I'm doing, you know, and when he's saying, hey, rejoice in suffering, that's another thing. That's an upside down kingdom mindset.
- [27:12]
B
Yeah.
- [27:13]
A
You know, when Paul is saying rejoice in suffering, he's literally writing that to you as he's in chains in a prison, probably being beaten every day, starving. Starving and stripped of everything that is comfortable and easy. And so he's not saying rejoice in suffering as he's chilling in Cabo with, you know, a pina colada. Like, he's saying, rejoice in suffering when he's at what we would say is one of the lowest moments you could possibly be in. But he's able to say that because he's like, I'm living for a different kingdom. I'm living for something eternal. I'm not living for the right here and right now. And I think that that is such a huge part of the upside down kingdom mindset is having an eternal mindset.
- [27:57]
B
Absolutely.
- [27:57]
A
Is thinking about, I'm not living for here, I'm living for heaven.
- [28:01]
B
Right?
- [28:02]
A
Yeah.
- [28:02]
B
It changes your whole entire perspective of like, why. Why am I doing this? Because if there's no end goal, if there's no why, you're just going to be like, what is this all for? What am I doing? Like, why would I want to deny myself? Why can't I eat that cake or not, you know, hook up with that guy or whatever? Like, if you have the end goal in mind, it's gonna make more sense. And for us, we know that this earth is fleeting. It will pass away. Our bodies are not immortal. Only our souls are. And so it helps you just completely shift your perspective because again, your. Your flesh wants to immediately go back to, okay, gratify the desires of my flesh. What. What I. What do I want right now? And then when your spirit is like, no, wait, think more eternally. It'll, like, help retrain your flesh to be like, oh, okay, this is why I'm doing. This is why I'm denying my flesh. And so that eternal perspective is what makes it all worth it and completely reshift everything.
- [28:58]
A
Yeah, it's like. It's the. It's the vision. It's the end goal. It's. I'm. I'm denying myself here so that I can have everything I was made for there. Like, I'm denying myself here on Earth so that I can experience true life in eternity forever.
- [29:14]
B
Yeah.
- [29:14]
A
Like, I. We don't think about forever. We think about the right here, right now, what you're saying. And I've seen that rope analogy so many times. Like the. Like a really, really long rope, and there's a little, tiny red part, and then the rest of the. The rope is white, and it's like so, so long. And the analogy is so many of us get so caught up in this tiny little red part of the rope, and that's all our life is on Earth. Like a tiny, tiny little. It's a little blip, you know, and scripture talks about that. You know, it's. It's. It's like a breath, you know, it's. You're here today, gone tomorrow. And the rest of the rope is eternity. And the. The little red part, the part that we're here for is just to prepare you for the rest of eternity. And It's. It's the deciding factor of how and where you're spending eternity. And so how you live here will determine how and where you live next. We don't have a YOLO mindset as Christians. It's not, you only live once. You actually live in forever.
- [30:14]
B
Yeah.
- [30:15]
A
You're living here, and then you're living in eternity somewhere.
- [30:18]
B
Right.
- [30:18]
A
And you have to remember that, because if you get so caught up in the short, short life that we have here on earth, you're going to totally miss the rest of eternity, which is what really matters. And it talks about in Scripture, in Matthew, don't store up for yourself treasures here on earth where that are going to rot and that are going to tarnish and that can so easily be stolen. Store up for yourselves treasures in heaven that will never tarnished, that will never spoil, that will never fade, that will last forever. And so we run our race for a crown. Not that we can just put on shelves and that we can show off and, you know, post about on Instagram. We run our race for a crown that will last forever. And that eternal perspective is so important. And that's something that even in my friendships, like, even us, like, we have to remind ourselves of that daily, and we encourage each other in that daily of. Of, like, what is all this for? Like, does this really matter? What is this leading? If we start this thing or post this thing or say yes to this thing or whatever, you know, it's like, what are we leading people to? And what are we. What are we saying in our hearts, like, matters most?
- [31:29]
B
Yeah. And I think, too, what's important, because I think a lot of people can maybe hear this and say, okay, so am I just supposed to have this horrible life, and am I supposed to just suffer and, like, just not do anything that I ever want to do? And I don't think that that's necessarily what God is saying. Like, he's not saying, live a miserable life, because Jesus literally says, like, I've come to give you life and life abundantly. And so I'm. I think what we're more saying is like, what are you gonna do with the things that God has given you? If you have a beautiful house, are you gonna use this house to bless other people, to have ministry there, to have worship nights, prayer nights, whatever. If you are blessed financially, like, how are you using that? Are you stewarding that well, are you giving to the needy? Are you tithing or whatever? It's not necessarily saying your life should just suck, because that's not really what God is telling us. And you will go through trials and tribulations as we're talking about with Paul. Like, you will maybe go through certain seasons of suffering or grief or whatever, or loss. But a lot of it is, again, when you shift it to eternal, like, God, you have a plan for me, this is bigger than myself. You know what, you're doing it again. It helps you re shift that perspective of just not like, my life is so hard and woe is me. It's like, okay, God, I trust you that you are going to take care of me. And so we don't want you to think, like, just suffer because there are some. I think there are some pastors out there who just think your life should just be super, super hard. And I do think that God calls each of us two different things where maybe it might look different or more challenging, but I think God also has a life of abundance for us still.
- [32:58]
A
That's such a good point because there's such intense messaging on both sides where I feel like there's this mindset of, you know, the prosperity gospel where, like, if you follow Jesus, you'll get abundance, riches, and prosperity in life and everything you want. Like, you will. You will experience everything you want. If you want to be rich, just work hard enough and believe enough. If you want to, you know, find your person tomorrow, just declare it and believe it. Like, there's. There's a lot of that prosperity gospel out there. And then there's also like the, the brimstone gospel and like, yeah, turn or burn. You're gonna, like, live in hell forever if you do this. And there's like that. That intense as well. And I think Jesus is such a beautiful picture of a meet in the middle of truth and grace, you know, of. Of love and mercy, of. It's like when you choose to follow Jesus. What I've seen from my own personal experience, like, I'll just speak of my testimony and from my experience, and then you can do the same is I was dead. I was. I was dead in my sins. I was a slave to sin. I was. Was addicted to the things of this world. I was bound by shame. I felt less confident. I didn't know who I was. I was constantly looking to other people to tell me who I was. I was searching for purpose. Nothing felt fulfilling. That was my life of sin. That was my life apart from Christ. When I found Christ and I started following Jesus, everything changed. It's like my black and white lens of what I saw turned to color and I felt. Felt Free. I felt alive. I felt hope. I felt purpose. I felt peace. Now, life didn't just magically get easier. I didn't stop having problems. You know, if anything, I started experiencing some spiritual warfare. I started experiencing, you know, some. Some like, temptations that before, it wasn't a temptation. It was just the way I lived my life, you know? And I started experiencing that temptation and those pressures and whatever it may be. And that was hard, and I had to work through that. And I've continued to be sanctified. But what's so beautiful is when Jesus is saying, I've come to give you life and life to the fullest. That doesn't mean that he's taking away all your problems. That doesn't mean you're never going to suffer. It means that whatever you're going through and whatever circumstances you find yourself in, he alone is enough. His power is made perfect in your weakness. He is your peace in the storm and in the chaos, he is your strength. When you feel weak, he is what gets you through it. And he is where all the joy is found. And so when you realize that, like, he becomes the joy of your heart, you're no longer looking to other things and other, you know, statuses or other experiences for what Jesus can give you.
- [35:49]
B
Or people.
- [35:50]
A
Or people. Yeah. Like, I was, like, looking to guys to give me worth and value. I was trying to find it in a relationship status and in the attention I got from. From guys. And it was like, when I went all in with Jesus and I made him my everything, it didn't mean my life, you know, got. Everything got better in that way, circumstantially. But inwardly, I experienced a radical peace and a purpose and a hope and a joy. And I think that's what's so important. I love that you pointed that out because it is true. It doesn't mean, like, oh, hate your life. Be. Be miserable.
- [36:24]
B
No.
- [36:24]
A
Christians should be the most joyful people in the entire world because we have a joy and a hope that can' Be taken. We have a joy and a hope that can't be shaken. That this world, it's like, it's based on things that will fail you.
- [36:36]
B
Right.
- [36:37]
A
You know, my joy, and they will fail you. Right. Like, you're gonna fail me. My job's gonna fail me, My husband's gonna fail me. Like, things are gonna fail me. But when my hope is in Jesus, like, that can't be taken away.
- [36:47]
B
Yeah. And I think, like, what? I. I think I saw this online and I loved it. It's like when you are in the world, you have this what if mindset because there's no anchor. There's no hope to look outside of you because you rely on yourself. You're like, I need to create my own world and my own life. Everything's dependent upon me. And then when you have Christ, it's the even if mindset. So the what if mindset is like, what if my. What if he leaves me? What if my job fails? What if this doesn't work out? And you're so fear, fear, fear, anxiety, anxiety, anxiety because you depend on yourself for your strength and for solutions. And then with Christ, it's. And even if I'm good, God is good. God has got me covered. And even if maybe he took it away for a reason, it's doing it because of my, my protection. And you're able to have that peace that surpasses all understanding. So to the world, they're like, how are you good right now? Like, your house just burned down. Like, I know a family that their house literally burned to ashes, lost everything, and somehow they were still worshiping God, still glorifying God, and they got an even better, bigger house because God provided. And so that's that mindset with God. It's even if I'm gonna be okay because I have a Savior who loves me, that is my foundation. He's my anchor. But the world is what if. And like, what if it does happen? You'll be okay because you have the Creator of the universe on your side.
- [38:08]
A
That's so good. I really love that. A what if mindset is the world's way. And even if mindset is God's way, even if it doesn't turn out the way that I want it to, even if it doesn't, you know, go the way I expected or planned or dreamed or wanted, even if it's not my timeline, you know, it's like having that mindset of God's in control. God's sovereign and my life is not my own. It belongs to him and I trust him because he's good. He's a good Father who gives good gifts and remembering that is so true and so good. I think one of my favorite passages in scripture in talking about this upside down kingdom mindset is the Beatitudes found in Matthew 5. And I'm have started trying to, like, memorize it. And I don't know that I'm gonna have them all memorized for this.
- [38:54]
B
I'm gonna look it up really fast.
- [38:56]
A
Yeah, I, I've tried to Memorize it because it's such a good way. It. Jesus. We were talking about this right before the podcast. Jesus flips the script. So everything that comes. Not like that, you think is good, normal, natural, and the world's way. It's Jesus. Like, no, it's. It's opposite. It's actually the other way. And when I read the Beatitudes, I'm like, Like, oh, my goodness, do I have any of these. Do I fall into any of these categories? And it's a good. Like, with the fruits of the Spirit and the beatitudes in Matthew 5. I think it's Matthew 5. 3. Through 3.
- [39:31]
B
Yeah.
- [39:31]
A
And through 12.
- [39:33]
B
Yeah.
- [39:33]
A
Yeah. And those are really good to, like, ask yourself, like, go through each one, you know? Do I. It says, blessed are the poor in spirit, for they will inherit the. What is it?
- [39:43]
B
Kingdom of heaven.
- [39:44]
A
The kingdom of heaven. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they will inherit the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
- [39:50]
B
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Bless are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. This one, the hardest one.
- [40:05]
A
The hardest one.
- [40:06]
B
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you. Oh, y'all. This one's the toughest one. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you. You, because of me, rejoice and be glad, because your reward is great in heaven. That one is tough.
- [40:29]
A
You guys, I was trying to memorize these verses, and I was going through the gospels, going through the book of. Of Matthew, and I remember. So it's. After this, it goes into, like, Jesus has, like, all these little teachings on. And a whole nother part of the upside down kingdom, I believe, too, is when it gets to that part where it's talking about, like. Like, love your enemies and pray for your enemies, and. And then also remembering that part of, like, you know, rejoice and be glad when people are saying falsely false things about you and insulting you and persecuting you. And I, like, had my quiet time that morning. I'm like, that's so good. Like, and then I think I recorded a podcast on humility. And I was talking about it, and I was like, yes, we should pursue that. Like, we should live that life. And then Literally, as soon as I end the podcast, I had, like, this situation happen where this. I was in a. A predicament in the work world where someone was, like, not necessarily trying to sue me, but it was just a whole situation, and they were just, like, saying things that weren't true, and it was really, really hard. And I am a fighter, and I am full of justice, and I am like, no, like, take them to court. You know, like, let's go to enneagram8 over here. I'm like, no, we will fight to win. We will fight to be right. And I just remember right after I had just. Just shared it with you guys to pursue humility, and that when your enemies come against you, love them, pray for them. If they ask for your, you know, shirt, hand them your coat. If they ask for you to go one mile, go two. You know, that's what Jesus preaches. It's such the opposite way of how we're wired and what culture says. And then when I was presented with that moment, I was faced with the decision. I was like, oh, my goodness. I just told the Stay True crew that we need to pursue that. And I was like, I need to pursue that. I have to choose that right here and right now. And I just remember, like, having a conversation with someone on my team, and I was like, okay, just let them. Let them have it, like, here, you know, whatever. And I was like, I just want to be the bigger person. I just want to love. I just want to. You know. And it was. Honestly, what's so crazy is it was, like, the hardest thing in the world to say. But then as soon as I said it, I felt the freest I could ever feel. I was like, wait, that actually felt better than if I fought and won, like, if I would have kept fighting to win. And I actually came out with what I wanted when I actually chose to just, like, do what Jesus told us to do and, you know, give and love and serve anyways, even when they're attacking you and persecuting you, you. It felt better.
- [43:04]
B
And you know what? Like, that's so good. But I also feel like the truth will always prevail. And so, like, when you let God just avenge for you, the truth will come forward. And so you don't need to, like, get your fists up and, like, it's so hard. Because when it says literally, like, pray for your enemies and also turn the other cheek, like, no one wants to do that. Who wants to not get revenge or not get back at them or say, okay, I'm Gonna say something about you. Then it's like, if you literally, like, lay down your sword and you like God, you are the one. Like, you have the sword of the spirit.
- [43:32]
A
It.
- [43:33]
B
God will fight for you. And even if you're wrong, like, God will show you you were wrong. Because not always are we right. We think we're right. And God's like, no, actually, you were wrong in that situation. And, I mean, I had a super similar situation to that, too. Like, I had someone saying all these false things about me and my husband going around telling people, and I was livid. I was so angry at this person. I was so hurt. I wanted to text them. I wanted to confront this person. And literally, I instead was like, caleb, we need to pray for this person. And it changes you. It may not change the person, but it changes you.
- [44:05]
A
So true.
- [44:06]
B
And it is so hard to do. But I promise you, again, you just let God fight for you and avenge for you. And again, it changed me the same way that it feels like it did. It was like, there's nothing I can do, and I'm just going to release this and let God be the one who defends me. And I think God will.
- [44:21]
A
That's so good. It's so true. God is our defender. God is our protector. We're not called to understand it all. We're not called to fight our own battles. We're not called to, you know, fight to be right. We're just called to lay it at the foot of the cross and say, jesus, I trust you. I give this to you and I pray blessing of this person. I pray love over this person. I pray, you know, whatever, and begin to pray these amazing things over them and watch what God does more than anything in your own heart. Because we're so quick to be offended. We're so quick to want justice. We're so quick to want to defend ourselves. And it's revealing. Like, it's very revealing of, wow, I thought my heart was so pure. And then all that it took was someone wronging me and someone cutting me off in traffic or someone saying really mean things about me or someone, you know, and then it reveals, oh, there's actually. There's some pride in my heart. There's some anger in my heart. Like, why do I feel the need to prove myself? Why do I feel the need to be right right now? And. And some of it is like. Like, you know, when you're dealing with, like, family or you're dealing with something within a marriage, or you're dealing with, like, sometimes it's actually a situation where it's really, really hard. It's not just like, oh, I got cut off in traffic. But I, I do agree with what you were saying of just like, the Lord will work it all together for good and we're just called to trust him, we're called to submit it to him, and we're called to love anyways, even when it's really hard.
- [45:47]
B
Yeah, I mean, and this is a whole another podcast. But like, there are times, of course, when you do need to confront it, you do need to speak up, you do need to address the person. But I think what you were saying too is like looking at yourself first because I think often we want to change the other person. You need to change. You were wrong. And it's so important to look in the mirror and say, okay, where was I wrong? Did I have any part in this? And that's very, very, very humbling and very hard to do. But you know, the Bible says there's a time to speak and there's a time to be silent. And really when you pray and ask the Lord, like, he'll show you. But even if you do speak, you still season it with grace and say, I'll go first and admit my wrongs first. But I just think again, this is another upside down kingdom thing. Because if you look online when especially on Tick Tock, I'm a Tick Tock girly, I see all the tea in the drama. And when someone wrongs someone, it's like someone first instinct is to go on Tick Tock and say, here's what's happened in my life. And this person did this and they give like a three part series of how mess up this person is. And I'm like, did you even go to the person? And even if you didn't go to the person, I still don't think that you should be going online and like blasting this person and getting revenge and giving them all the tea. I'm like, I don't think that's the Internet's like business. Like, I don't think that that person probably would appreciate that. And what if there could have been a redemption story and now you kind of ruined it because you went online blasting that person. So I don't know, it's just very different than the world because the world really wants revenge. They want everyone to know I was right. And it's like there might have been a part that you played and you only gave one side of the story and now you made that person look really, really bad.
- [47:21]
A
Yeah, man, there's so. There's so much there that we could. I could do a whole.
- [47:25]
B
Yeah, I'm like, that's a whole nother.
- [47:26]
A
I could do a whole podcast on, like, confrontation and conflict and how to handle like. Like persecution and all that stuff. Because we know that that's such a. That is such a.
- [47:35]
B
That's like, our world.
- [47:36]
A
It's like, such a thing. But I love the Beatitude so much because it's such a. A standard, a godly standard of what we should be striving for and praying for and asking the Holy Spirit. You know, something you alluded to earlier is just like, we can't do this on our own. It's not by our might, it's not by our power, but it's by His Spirit. So only by His Spirit can we fulfill the calling he has on our life. Only by His Spirit can we live, you know, a life worthy of Him. Only by His Spirit can we, you know, make it into. Get into heaven because of what he did for us, because of the sacrifice that he made. And. And by continuing to stay true to the truth, like, we need His Spirit. We need His Spirit to be alive and active in us, but we also have to be feeding the Spirit. So it's not just like, oh, I got saved, and, you know, Jesus entered my heart and now I'm good to go. It's like, no, I got saved. And now every single day after that, like, I'm denying myself. I'm following Him. I'm. I'm being sanctified by him, and I'm choosing to stay true to the truth. And I think that's so important because part of, like, this upside down kingdom is being set apart and looking different than the rest of the world is like, that's really. The whole point is, like, we should be looking so different. And so I think, like, even just like a good question or a good thing to kind of get into is like, how. How can they know if they're being set apart? Like, how? For those listening, how can they know? Like, am I living a life that truly honors God? Am I living a life that is an upside down kingdom? Am I living a life that is set apart from the rest of the world?
- [49:13]
B
JPO says this, and I love it. It says, God won't give you his unrevealed plan if you don't already follow his revealed plan. And so that basically means, like, a. Are like, am I following a God? Am I doing this? When you just simply, like, open up your Bible you'll see, like, what he's told us to do. And so, like, the only reason why Maddie and I know how to do this is because we've opened up scripture and we've been like, hey, God, what is it that you want me to do? You can't know what God wants you to do if you haven't already opened the Word and seen, like, what he's already told you to do. And so I think when you just read through scripture, you're able to. To see all these things that we've been talking about of giving money, serving people, denying your flesh, all those things. And so I think it starts with that and I think also starts with humbling yourself. Because the Bible always says, like, those who humble themselves will be exalted, and those who exalt themselves will be humbled. That's another upside down kingdom thing. Because if you start to see yourself get prideful or haughty or you're like, man, God's giving me all these things. It's because I'm so awesome. That's you probably being prideful and putting it in your own strength. And I just want you to have an honest conversation with yourself and slow down and say, God, search my heart. Is there any area in my life that is not seeking and serving you? You have to be brutally honest with yourself. And then I think too, when you just look at society, you'll see, you'll start to. The more you walk with Christ, the more you'll be able to identify, okay, that's the world and that's God. That one tells me. Usually you look at the difference. One will tell you, elevate yourself, choose yourself. Choose whatever you want to do. And one will say again, deny yourself. Like, take up your cross, follow me. Don't do that. And I think one tangible way that you'll see this is like, your friend groups might change. Your friends might say you're different now or like, you don't go out to the bars with us anymore. Or, you know, why. Why aren't you choosing to sleep with that guy or live with him before marriage? Like, I don't understand that. People around you will start typically noticing that you're being different. And that's a good thing. It might be scary, but I think people will notice, like, you've changed.
- [51:17]
A
Yeah, I love so JP that she's referring to Jonathan Pakluta. He's a pastor in Waco, Texas. That's who Grant worked for for two years before we moved to Tennessee. And we love him and his Wisdom and his leadership. And I love what he's talking about of just so many of us want God's mysterious will, his like, like unrevealed will. Like, you're talking about God. What is, who is my husband going to be? What is the plan you have for my life? What is my life's purpose? What should I do? Should I start this? Should I go here? Should I move here? And so many of us are asking those questions when what we should be doing is turning to scripture and turning to the scriptures that say, this is my will for you, that you may rejoice always, pray continuously, and never stop giving thanks. This is my will for you, that you should live a pure and holy life. Like, there's so many scriptures throughout the Bible that say, this is my will for you. And so, so many of us are asking God, what is your will for my life? God, what do you have for my life? And if we turn to Scripture, we'll see, it's very clear. And when we start following God's revealed will, when we start actually pursuing and being committed to his commands and his truth for our lives, we'll start seeing like our hearts will change, our minds will change, our desires will even begin to change. And then, then things will start to happen that we look at and we're like man. Only God could have made that happen. Only God could have brought this person into my life. Only God could have opened up this door and provided this opportunity. Only God could have, you know, ridden that addiction or that anxiety or that anger from my life that I had been struggling with for so long. Only God. But because we took the step to say, okay, this is what scripture says, and I'm going to choose to, to read it and then believe it and then follow it. That's how we can experience, like, God's will for our life. And so I love that you brought that up, because I do. I think that's such a good point because for even looking at the Beatitudes, for example, you know, when it says, blessed are the pure in heart for they will see God. So many of us are like, you know, I want God's will for my life. I want this, I want that. And it's like, are you, are you pursuing purity? Like, how's your purity? Like, are you pursuing God's will for purity in your life? Are you pursuing, you know, God for even the right reasons? Are you only pursuing God for what he can give you and how it benefits you? Or are you pursuing God to be in his presence? And to abide with him because he is more than enough and he is where joy is found. And so I think that is, Is so, so important. And I love that you touched on that because it's such a big part of, you know, what it looks like to pursue the upside down kingdom and have the right mindset with it, but also know, like, there's a role that we play in it too. And we shouldn't be asking the question of God. What is your. It's like, get in the Word.
- [54:08]
B
Yeah.
- [54:08]
A
How much time are you spending in the Word? And then don't just be a hearer of the Word. Don't just be a reader of the Word. Be a doer of the Word. Do what it says, follow it.
- [54:17]
B
Yeah. And you want, again, like I want to re. Emphasize is like, like, this takes so much time. This takes discipline. This takes gaining the fruit of the Spirit. We do not have this perfectly. But I feel like the more you walk with Christ, the easier this is. And when you, When I say walk with Christ, I feel like the Lord just reminded me, like, you're not running with Christ. This isn't like a marathon. This isn't a sprint. This isn't, let me run as fast as I can to get all the things that I want and to be this perfect person. No, it's a daily discipline. Walking is slow, it's unhurried. It means sometimes not doing anything, sitting with God and letting him reveal things to you. And I mean, I've been faithfully, faithfully following Christ for over five years, and there's still things I have to work on. I've known God my whole life, but I feel like I fully went all in five years ago. And it's. There's still so much stuff I need to learn and stuff. But it's like, how can you ask the Lord, like, show yourself to me. And I have to participate. I have to open my Bible and ask the Lord to reveal Himself to me. It doesn't just come what you were saying. Like, you don't just naturally drift towards godliness and holiness and being this perfect person. Well, first of all, no one is perfect besides Jesus. And second of all, this is a discipline. And so you will have to participate with God and partake with him and make time for him, make room for Him.
- [55:36]
A
So, yeah, yeah, that's so good. And I think the last thing I would just say too is like, like, what does your quiet time look like? What does your private life look like when no one's around? And that is where for me, like I'll just speak for myself and I believe this is for everyone. But from my experience, like the, the way I've been able to stay true to the truth, the way I've been able to, you know, remember that it's all about Jesus, the way that I've been able to keep an eternal mindset, the way that I've been able to memorize scripture and to teach scripture and whatever it may be, the only way I've been able to do that is that every single day I'm in the Word, every single day I'm in prayer, every single day I'm in worship and I'm surrounding myself with people who are also doing that, who are also pursuing that. I'm in a local church, I'm serving my community. That is so, so important. From a very private life, I think we can very easily, you know, want to shift over to like public life. And it's all about what, what, you know, we're posting or where we're going or who's seeing it and who, what we're giving. And that's good too. Jesus had public ministry, but it, it shows that for 30 years of his life, we don't know what all he was up to those 30 years. Like he was not recorded, you know.
- [56:52]
B
Sitting at the temple, like learning and.
- [56:53]
A
Getting taught, being taught, asking questions, just being a carpenter, you know, being faithful with where he was and honoring and obeying his parents, like, like he was doing the mundane, he was doing the everyday. And even in his public ministry, it often said he would withdraw. He would withdraw to be alone with the Father. And so it's so important that we remember the only way. I said it at the beginning but like, what you feed is what will lead. And so the only way that we're going to be able to live this upside down kingdom life, the only way we're going to be able to be set apart for Christ is remembering one that it's not by our might, power or strength, it's by His Spirit alone. It is by grace. We have been saved through faith in Him. But also we have a role and a responsibility to play. And the only way we can be who he's called us to be is by allowing him to fill us. And we do that by spending time with him every day and making sure that we're feeding ourselves the things of God and not the things of the world. And so I think that is so important. Do you have any last minute thoughts or things that you would want to share? Just along this idea of, like, the upside down kingdom, what it means to you and. Or, like, encouragement for them.
- [58:13]
B
Yeah. I mean, I would just say it. It may not be easy, but it's so worth it. It is absolutely so worth it. And I think similar to kind of Maddie's testimony, I mean, I just lived a life of just whatever I wanted to do. Debauchery, sin. And it just filled me with shame and guilt. And I thought I would find life. I thought I'd find life at the bars. I thought I would find life in my identity and trying to make as much money as possible. And, like, I've been doing social media for 14 years, and I was building my own kingdom. I was like, how many followers can I get? What can I do to make my name great and my name known and everyone know about Gianni Napoleon? And when I gave my life to the Lord, I was like, I don't care if people know my name. I want people to know his name. It shifts your whole perspective, and it makes life so much more fun, I'm telling you. Yeah, I feel like so many people have this backwards where they're like, God is robbing me. He's taking from me. He's trying to be a fun sucker. That's not it. It gives you life, joy, freedom, peace. I mean, when the world is chaotic or things are falling apart, you have that peace that surpasses all understanding. And let me tell you, life has gotten so much better walking with Christ. And so I never want anyone to think that we're just suffering. And it's like, God just doesn't want you to have any fun in your life. No, it is so fun. Like, we have joy, and I love it. And he has changed my life. And so it is the best thing ever. It might be difficult at first. The more you do it, the easier it is. And when again, you think of the end in. In mind and you think eternally, it's like, oh, this is worth it. I have a goal. I'm going for this. I'm finishing my race that God has set before me. And it gives everything purpose. It's like, because I think when you don't have Christ, you're kind of like, why am I doing this? Like, what is this all for?
- [59:56]
A
Why am I here?
- [59:57]
B
Why am I here? Why do I exist? When you have Christ, you're like, I know it. It's to make his name known. It's to make disciples. It's to use my gifts and my talents for God. And so it just makes Life so much better. Trust me.
- [60:08]
A
That's so good. I love, I love that because it is weirdly so true. And again, it's so countercultural.
- [60:13]
B
Yeah.
- [60:14]
A
That it's like everything is about self in the world's view. Like it's like, like self satisfy, self improvement, self love, self help, everything itself. And what's crazy is yet when you follow those ways, it's never, it never helps, it never satisfies, it never fulfills. But what's crazy is when you don't say, I'm actually trying to self satisfy. I'm actually trying to God satisfy. I'm actually trying to God glorify. I'm actually trying to help other people find God. And I'm putting my help in God and my hope in God and my satisfaction in God. It's when we do that that we feel satisfied. Yeah, it's crazy. It's just like so opposite. It's so flip.
- [60:54]
B
But it makes sense. I'm like, oh, this makes sense.
- [60:56]
A
You know, because he made us.
- [60:57]
B
Yeah.
- [60:58]
A
And so he's the only one that can fulfill us.
- [61:01]
B
Right. And we were created to worship him and to know him. And it says, I think in Ecclesiastes that all of us have eternity written on our hearts. And so all of us are like wandering like, what is my purpose? But eternity is written on all of our hearts. We all are. Maybe, whether we know it or don't know it, we're desperately seeking for that. And so God made us to know him and to worship him so good.
- [61:24]
A
We weren't made to be worshiped. We were made to worship. And we. So we have a world today that says be worshiped. Be worshiped. You know, start your own thing, get your own, build your own kingdom like you were talking about. And we all can fall into that temptation. That was the first sin, you know. That's why Satan fell was because he wanted to be worship and he wanted it to be all about him. And then he's made it his mission in life to try and get other people to want to worship him through worshiping themselves. And it's such a temptation, it's such a constant pool that we're gonna feel always that we have to consciously deny and remember. I'm actually not gonna find what I'm looking for when I worship myself. I'm actually not going to find what I'm looking for when I worship the world. I'm only gonna find what I am looking for when I worship the one who made me, created me, saved me, sustains me, only in that. And it's just such a good reminder. I'm glad you said that.
- [62:24]
B
And I'll close out with this quote, because I think it was Jim Carrey who said it. And I think he said, I wish everyone could get as. Was it Jim Carrey as like, rich as possible, as famous as possible, only to find out that it's the most, like, unfulfilling thing ever. And if Jim Carrey, the most successful, he's in all these movies, I mean, every celebrity at some point is going to feel this, where they're like, wow, is there. Is there more? Like, I've made it, but I still feel empty. And so it's just like, look at those examples of people that we deem is like, so successful they've made it and they're. They're just not happy. They're not fulfilled. And so I think. Let us take notes on that.
- [63:01]
A
Yeah. Oh, so good. I'm so proud of you. You crush this.
- [63:04]
B
You live out of you.
- [63:06]
A
You live a life that says it's all about Jesus and you reason not to. Like, you have every reason to be like, man, I've been a boss woman. I've set the. She's been like a trailblazer in so many ways. And yet you're like, it is all about Jesus. And he's the only place that I find my hope and my satisfaction and my confidence. And I've even gotten to see you, like, you're talking about over the last five years. And I've been with you, what, for three or four?
- [63:32]
B
Over three, almost four. I think we start crying. 2019 was when I left, like, fully was like, God, I'm going all in. And then I met you around 2020.
- [63:42]
A
2020, yeah.
- [63:43]
B
Yeah. She was so staple in my journey too. It's like crazy cuz, like, living with you. I was like, oh, I've been doing this all wrong. And I would see Maddie just like worshiping, like on her hands and knees, like, reading her Bible every single day. And it was so cool getting to, like, do life with you. Like, I tell people all the time, like, maddie, don't make me cry.
- [64:02]
A
There will be tears.
- [64:03]
B
But you, like, literally changed my life. Like, seriously. Cuz Maddie, I've always gassed Maddie up. But, like, she truly is even better offline because you are so humble and compassionate and you serve people and you genuinely live this out. And so I want everyone to know that, like, Maddie is not on here just like talking stuff. Like, she literally lives this out. And I got to watch you do that and it changed my life. So I love you.
- [64:28]
A
That's my best friend. His best friend. I love you. I'll often just, like, think about. I'm like, man, was such good times living. It was. And I, I'm so thankful that now we're in this stage where we get to raise our kids together and like, and just continue to, to do friendship. But I think it's. It is so important, you guys, like, I am trying to affirm her publicly because I am so thankful that I have surrounded myself by people and that I have a best friend that is pursuing this upside down kingdom mindset. And it's so important in your journey, guys, and your walk with Jesus for you to find people. People that, yes, we should be on mission and we should be pouring into other people, but your close circle, the people that you do life with consistently that you're allowing to speak into your life, it's so important that they are living for eternity and that they're going to challenge you and encourage you in your faith. Like Janine was saying, like, we've been able to be that for each other of iron, sharpening iron and reminding each other of the truth and reminding each other of what matters most. And I'm so thankful for that. Yeah, I'm so thankful for you.
- [65:34]
B
Me too. And we've seen each other, like, fall short. We've seen each other totally, you know, have bad mindsets and, like, struggling in comparison, whatever, and just speaking truth back into each other. It's like you literally, if that is my encouragement to anything, like, obviously, first and foremost, seek Jesus on your own, but seek Jesus with other people because it is so much harder to do this life by yourself. Like, if you want to run this race, well, run with other people that are doing this too. It makes it 20 gazillion times easier and better because, man, this life is hard enough, but to do it alone is, like, so hard.
- [66:08]
A
Or to do it with the wrong people that are, like, pulling you back.
- [66:10]
B
That's, that's.
- [66:11]
A
That's gonna make running real hard if they're pulling you back. So you need to find people that are gonna help you, like, run faster. And you're running beside each other, not in competition, but, like, hey, come on, let's, you know, let's do this. Let's do it together. Okay? I love you and I love this little baby and I love this little.
- [66:28]
B
Thank you.
- [66:29]
A
And I'm so thankful, thankful you came on Stay True. And I'm so excited for all God has for you for them. For this new year. Oh, for this baby. For this true. For this house. Oh, my goodness. Okay, we love you guys so much and so thankful that you tuned in to this episode. Be sure to check out Janine's podcast, Happy and Healthy Podcast. She drops so much wisdom every Tuesday. Every Tuesday. This is every Monday. Hers every Tuesday. So back to back action in. But thanks for coming on.
- [67:03]
B
I love you. Thanks for having me on.
- [67:05]
A
And as always, guys, be sure to stay. You stay true. We love you.
- [67:10]
B
Bye.