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- [00:00]
A
Don't forget that you can't miss anything we do here at BlazeTV. And the way you won't is by being a subscriber. Go to blazetv.com dace and if you use the code DACE you'll get $20 off your annual subscription to BlazeTV so that you don't miss all the stuff you can't miss. And it's not just from our show here, the crew at the Steve Day show, but all the various shows that you know and love here at Blaze tv. You get everything we do, all the exclusive stuff we do, all the behind the scenes stuff we do, all the, all the extra stuff we do. You won't miss any of it by being a subscriber to Blaze TV comes out to just about eight bucks a month, 26 cents or so a day. Can't beat it. I gotta believe we're worth 26 cents a day. Otherwise what are we doing here? Okay. Blazetv.comdace and if you don't think we are clearly like Ali or somebody has to be worth 26 cents a day blazetv.com days use the code DACE for that big discount for your Blaze TV subscription at blazetv.com days. And greetings. Welcome to a special edition of the Steve Das Show. I am Steve Dace with Todd erzin and Aaron McIntyre. You're going to hear more from them later on because we are looking forward, very much so, to the conversation you're going to hear today on this special Evergreen edition. Joined by a guy who's become a good friend and I know a lot of you know as well. Seth Gruber is here with us. And Seth, can't tell you how much we are looking forward to this conversation with you today and get a chance to pick your brain and see what makes you tick. Brother. How are you?
- [01:57]
B
Good. Steve, thanks for blessing us with your brain in D.C. at my conference. Appreciate that.
- [02:03]
A
You bet. So here are the ground rules for those of you that don't recall when we do these long form conversation evergreens. We always say we don't know when this is going to air. We always trust though it's going to air right when God wants it to providentially. But it's an opportunity for us to go a little bit more in depth and if you've ever tried. One of the most challenging things for me right now is to try to interview seth in a 15 minute segment. All right. Because he's got a lot of things to say and 15 minutes ain't enough. All right. And So I was like, one of these days we got to get him here where we've got more time. Well, today is one of those days, Seth. So we're going to sit here with you for about the next hour, plus we'll take a couple of potty breaks there in between. And then in the final segment of the show, Todd and Aaron have been here listening the whole time. All right.
- [02:50]
C
Right.
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A
And they're going to be quiet, tuning in, and then they're going to basically talk about you behind your back on behalf of the audience here in the final segment of the show. So you ready to go?
- [02:59]
B
Amen. Amen.
- [03:01]
A
Let's start. Let's start with this. All right. Where did you come from? And, and what, what brought you here at the. At the eye of the storm in America's culture war?
- [03:14]
B
Oh, dude, what a good. What a good phrase, man. We got to use that more. The eye of the storm. I mean, that's exactly what it feels like to me, bro. I mean, that'. My next project's called the Last Stand because it feels like this is kind of it, not meaning, like five years, meaning like a generation or two. Like, this is kind of it. And I guess I owe much of my clarity, opportunities, blessings of my life and family to my parents. My mother homeschooled me and my sisters. We were living in la. This was back when you could have like a, like a gay or pro abortion friend, and they didn't want to, like, put you in a gulag.
- [03:57]
A
Yeah.
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B
Do you remember. Do you remember those good old days, Steve?
- [03:59]
A
Yeah, I do.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Yeah.
- [04:01]
B
So I graduated high school 2010 from Whittier High School, that's actually Nixon's alma mater, So a little, not so little, but a little suburb of. Of la, just outside of downtown. And I was probably one of the only Christians on my team in sports, and yet we were all friends. Like, it was okay. But I was kind of that last gener. And so having been homeschooled through eighth grade, went to public high school, did my senior project on abortion, I kind of realized, I guess, the crisis that we were already in as a country. And this is why, I think, Steve, people often underestimate the threat that is abortion, the threat that is gay marriage. Let's just name two of the issues that both political parties seem to be totally down with, by the way, and two issues that I'd say most Christians are kind of like, hands off or maybe like Pilate. How about that? When he meets the Savior, you know, like, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna give me some. Some soap and water here. Let me just wash my hands of this blood. Let me just excuse myself from this political affair. Except, like Pilate with the church today, the blood's all over our hands. And I think this is something that we're starting to realize is, like, we've tolerated things like abortion and gay stuff for so long. And I think a lot of Christians, and I'm answering your question by saying I was immune to this silly assumption because of my upbringing, but I think a lot of Christians were just like, you know, I like, I mean, what's it really doing to me? Like, you know, we're. We're pro life Christian family. We're not killing babies in the womb. You know, we don't do the gay stuff. You know, I mean, maybe I'd have to pray about whether I went to, you know, a gay wedding where Andy Stanley's marrying the two sodomites. But otherwise, I mean, it doesn't really affect me and my family and Obama, White house and Rainbow 2015. I mean, whatever, man. Like, we're raising our kids godly. Like, I had a friend from college who, right before Obergefell came down, he was making to me the argument Christian college, right? Christian worldview. He's telling me, why does that affect us, Seth? Why should our Christian view of marriage be enforced on the rest of the Republic? And that's when I started realizing I'm like, oh, boy, this is coming from the mouths of Christians who spent 50 grand a year for a Christian worldview education in order to be a better ambassador for Christ in a post Christian culture. Yikes. And so now we're realizing our complicity, silence, and tolerance of those issues didn't stay in a cute little box like Pandora. It just erupted and it's destroying absolutely everything. And so I think just having been homeschooled, where my mom made me memorize way too many documents, way too many Bible verses and chapters, way too many poems from John Greenleaf Whittier and whatnot. I think it just prepared me to not be gay, to know why the church exists, and to reclaim what historically has been maybe the first 1900 years of Christianity, which is to actually be a threat to evil. To actually be a threat to evil. I think that's our calling. I think we've forgotten that. And that's why I think we need to actually start reading these scenes of warfare again. Like when Jesus stands with his disciples in Caesarea Philippi. You know, I think I've talked with you about that before. That's one of my favorite. So anyways, I guess that's where I. Besides. Besides the uterus. I guess that's where I came from.
- [07:30]
A
What are. How did you get into the. The. The culture war arena? I mean, for example, I just wanted to be a sports talk radio host, and my wife married a mailroom clerk. All right? And in the middle of my local sports talk radio career, the Lord saved me and decided he put these abilities in me for vastly different reasons than I was currently using them. Right? So. And. And then doors just opened against my own will, you know, like, I. I had. It was very clear I had no alternative but to do this. I like to tell our audience I have never successfully ever applied for a job in broadcasting. Seth. Every job I've ever had has been given to me by somebody I didn't even know or I didn't know the job was available. So it was just. The Lord has just made this very clear. Hey, moron. Okay? There's a reason why you can do the stuff you can do despite the fact you didn't make it out of community college, and it's not for the stuff that you want to do with it. All right? You know, so that's kind of my story. But what's yours?
- [08:23]
B
Yeah, thanks, Steve. That's. That's. That's good. I mean, isn't that how the Lord works? Right? Next thing you know, you're here on a platform and you're like, how did this happen? I didn't ask for any of this, right? And I would say. I would say my. My experiences is sort of similar. I. So my senior year at Whittier High School, you have to do a senior project in order to gradu. I don't know if they even do this anymore, frankly, with the public education, the state of it right now. But you had to pick a topic. You had to write, like a 9 to 10 page in 12 font essay. You had to do. It was. It had to be researched. And then you had to do volunteer hours, like field work hours that associated with your topic selection, a certain amount of hours that had to be signed off by an advisor. And then you had to give a public speech to a group of teachers. By the end. At the end of the year, you had to do that to graduate. And so I was going to pick something like, you know, sports or athleticism, because I had washboard abs, and I was the captain of the cross country and track team. But I was starting to realize that a lot of my pro Abortion friends actually had questions and challenges that I didn't have the best immediate answers to. And for anyone that's listened to you and me talk before, Steve, people know that I really like the most spicy, punchy, satisfying arrangement of dictionary. And so I was a little bit convicted at 18 years old that I didn't have better answers on the tip of my tongue, especially given my upbringing in a Christian church with a mom who ran a pregnancy center in the late 80s, early 90s in Los Angeles. And so I decided, you know, screw this. I'm just going to become an expert on this topic of baby slaughter. So I picked abortion. And my senior project advisor teacher actually told me, you can't pick the topic of abortion. That's what. That's one of the topics we don't let our students pick. Sorry, it's on our band topic list. And sure enough, I went to the website there was. But they didn't know, Steve, that I was homeschooled. And so I threatened to sue them for viewpoint discrimination at 18 years old. And I told them that I had 80.
- [10:30]
A
This is the most. This is the most Seth Gruber story of all time. Please continue. Yes.
- [10:35]
B
Yeah, yeah, it was two. So it was 2009. Yeah, it was like fall of 2009. I had just turned 18. 18. And so next thing I know, I'm emailing. I got to go find these emails because I know I saved them. I'm emailing with the superintendent of the Whittier Union High School district, which is very large district. My high school alone had 8,000, 6,006 to 8,000 students. And then there were like five other high schools in that district. And she's basically asking me to lay off. And I said, you know, no, I know who to call. You know, I can. We can call edf. We can get fire involved. Like, you know, you can't just discriminate based off of topics, topic selection. And so they backed off, and I did whatever the hell I wanted to do. And I learned a really important lesson that I've carried with me today. And it's really, I would say, like part of the culture at the White Rose Resistance, which I'll get to the second lesson that I learned at a soy boy Christian college. And just our epic ministry right here, right? Boom. The White Rose is that sometimes it just takes, you know, one man with some testicular fortitude, one person to stand up and say, you know what? Screw you, Fauci little dwarf, you little Faustian tyrant despot. Sit down. Okay? Sit down. You Soy milk drinking, effeminate gay demon. Okay, we're not going to play along, we're not going to go along with this. We just have to learn to say no. And that's yielded a lot of fruit and a lot of babies saved through our ministry that that's become part of the DNA of the white rose resistance. And then for my fieldwork hours I asked my mom, right, because she ran a pregnancy center. Love on mom, right? Help support her choose babies life. Amen. Like I keynote a lot of those galas. It's an honor. They're great ministries, but they're not like they're not intended to tear down the high places. They're intended to walk with women and give them that love and support of the local church. They're important, but they're different lanes in the culture war. And so my mom was like, well there's this great group called the center for Bioethical Reform. My mom goes, I was on the board in 1990 when it was established. And I'm like what mom, how are you a ba? Like I never knew this. She tells me what this organization does. Since 1990, CBR, the Center for Bioethical Reform has been taking like 20 foot wide, 8 foot high aborted baby images onto university campuses and they'll set up like 15 to 30 of them. And some of them are like incredibly offensive, like, like you know, mocking people like Rick Warren or Obama or putting bible verses like you know, whatever you did for the least of these, you did for me. And then showing like an eight week emaciated child that was killed through abortion. And so I end up volunteering there. The Christmas break of 2009, December of 2009, and for two days straight, six hour work shifts back to back days, I'm scanning 300 first trimester, emaciated, mutilated pictures of babies on a high quality scanner and categorizing them in this database, naming the files, looking at them for hours and hours and then taking the images off and putting four more images on the scanner and watching it appear on the imac as I'm watching just blood and guts, eyeballs, noses, tongues, the tongues of first week babies, their ears, their little hands smaller than a quarter. And I'm 18, I'm a Christian, my mom ran a pregnancy center and I'm a homeschooler. And I've never seen this before. If I've never seen this before, how many people in the broader culture have never actually seen what abortion is and does to little babies? And these aren't second trimester. Steve, these aren't full term. Like everyone with like a semi functioning prefrontal cortex, it, you know, goes like this, like responds when they see a full picture of a full term. Aborted children. These are 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 weeks and fully developed, highly detailed noses, eyeballs, mouths, ears, hands, feet, neck, legs, just really small. And that was probably one of the turning points of my life. I had never seen what abortion actually does to the child. And it reminded me immediately of Ephesians 5, 11 says, have nothing to do but the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It made me think of the story of Emmett Till, who according to accounts, whistled or catcalled at a white clerk in Honey, Mississippi. And the next day that woman's husband found Emmett at his family's house where he was staying, his uncle's house or something like that. Takes Emme, ties him to a rope, ties it to the car, beats the living daylight out of him, drags him through the street, tosses his body into the Mississippi River. And when the police found Emmett Till's body, they didn't know who it was. It took them some time to identify the body as Emmett. They bring the body back to Emmett Till's mother. And Emmett Till's mother shocked the world by announcing, announcing that her son would be having an open casket funeral.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And woke supercharged empathetic Christians criticized her for disrespecting the body of her little boy. And she responded to these journalists and good for nothing pastors by saying, I want the world to see what they did to my little boy. The published photos of Emmett Till's emaciated, mutilated. I mean, his face looks like a deflated football published in the newspapers. Historians count that event as the spark that lit the civil rights movement because racism got a face and Americans were forced to look at what they were tolerating. And that's what I was thinking in this moment of, oh my gosh, this is what the world has to see. And this is 90%, 90 plus percent of abortions are at the stage of development that I'm looking at murdered children. And so I started helping organize these on college campuses. I then went off to Westmont College, a fake, very gay Christian college whose motto is Christ preeminent in all things. And my summer job between college was to help set up these genocide awareness projects. I did them at UC Irvine, Cal State, Long Beach, Rio Hondo, near Whittier and La Mirada, ucla, UC San Diego, sdsu, there's others I'm leaving out. I did these up and down the coast of California, and this is when I was 19, 20, 21. This was my summer job. And you nearly got punched multiple times, had people spit at us, throw drinks at us, curse us out. So I was already experiencing this in 1920. And then I started the first pro life club at Westmont College. This is in Santa Barbara. It's a stone's throw from Oprah's house, which should tell you everything you need to know. And I didn't know that, Steve. Right. I'm just thinking, hey, you know, I'm a youth group Christian kid from la, and I want to be a surfer. Bra man. I want to go to a college right by the coast, and Santa Barbara's beautiful. And I visited it, and I met amazing other incoming freshmen, and they love Jesus. And I thought, great, a Christian college. I was too naive to understand how big EVA operates, which we'll get into later, and how most Christian academics, most are in the business of trading their birthright for a bowl of porridge. And so I petitioned to start this club. It's a pro life club. And then I meet the pregnancy center director in Santa Barbara who now went on to launch Pro Life bank with Nick Vujicic. And she tells me, you're the first student to start a pro life club at this college. There's never been a pro life club at this college. And I was like, wow, Goodness, it takes me a full semester or more to find a faculty advisor, because nobody wanted to sign up for that because they're all progressive hacks, all the professors, most of them. And then I finally get it approved. And the first thing I do, Steve, is I petition student government to let me bring the genocide awareness project into the smack dad middle of campus. And they said no for three years in a row. Three years in a row. They. They. Every year I would come back and I would ask student government to approve this because it's a new student council or whatever. And every time it was. It was too offensive. This is too offensive. What if people are visiting with their kids? And I'm like, well, we have warning signs. We put up to every access point to the display. And they said, no, this is too offensive. And so my junior year, and you can find pictures of this at old Christianity Day and World magazine articles. When I had luscious, long Samson locks, I stood outside of the dining commons with my own homemade abortion imagery signs. And I stood there and forced everyone to look at these images when they walked in to eat Breakfast and lunch. I skipped a couple classes and I showed the entire student body what the college was tolerating. What I came to find out in this process was that there were actually multiple pro abortion faculty professors on the payroll. One in communication studies, one in the Spanish department, another in the communication studies. There were several others throughout the whole department. Wow. Who were, who were actually pro abortion. And this wasn't just hearsay. I actually. Well, it won't surprise you, Steve. I got into email debates with them. I tried to poke. I called them cowards and apostates who needed to repent and shouldn't be on staff at this college. And that got an email response. And so I kept all those. I got to figure out how to put them into a book one day. And so in the meantime in this whole thing ends up Christianity Yesterday, I mean today did a whole piece on this back in 2012.
- [20:37]
A
Now it's Christianity seldom.
- [20:39]
B
Yes, Christianity seldom, but well said. Steve was a world magazine. Students for Life did a whole piece on it. I was on a couple podcasts and radio shows. You know, I'm like, what am I? I'd like just turned 21 or something like that. And, and, and that was a very important lesson. I ended up having the staff come out, Stu Kleek and Tim Wilson, for any of, of the trolls on your show who like to go troll cowards, which by the way, I totally approve of. I think it's wonderful if anyone wants to go Google these effeminate, pusill, useless piles of flesh at Westmont. Stu Kleek and Tim Wilson, they come out and they say, seth, did you have permission to do this? And I said no. And they said, well then I'm afraid we're gonna. And I was wearing a GoPro, so I have all the footage. We're gonna have to ask you to stop. And I said no. I said, look, I went through your student handbook and I opened it up, I had everything underlined. And I said, I'm a tuition paying student exercising my right to free speech. I'm not here representing my club. And I didn't ask my to stand with me. So this is not a club event, so it doesn't need approval. I'm just here as a tuition paying student. And after about 90 minutes of going back and forth, Steve, basically they ended up saying, ah, expletive, and said, you're right, Seth, you're not breaking any rules. And then they said, but we feel like you're disrespecting us. And I said something along the Lines of It's been a long time, Steve. I feel like you're disrespecting the murdered preborn image bearers who are probably killed at a higher ratio by Christian female Westmont students as one of the largest gatherings of people who claim the name of Christ in the city of Santa Barbara. They didn't really like that. I continued to stand with these horrific aborted baby images for days and weeks on end. I had other friends join me, some of whom I still speak to to this day. Some of my friends will say that that was one of the turning points of their life because they realized they had never really suffered for anything before. And watching me become the gossip of the entire student body and watching me carry that load alone, it was a spark for a lot of men to find their chest again at that moment, at 20, 21 years old, which was cool. And then the administration the next year passed a new rule. They updated the speech in their student handbook so that any individual attempting to do any kind of display whatsoever on anywhere in the campus needs approval. So rather than dealing with the fact that they don't take a position on a abortion, but they do by the fact that they have pro abortion faculty professors on the payroll, they passed a new rule to block me from doing something like that again. And so that was the second lesson I learned that's become the DNA of the White Rose Resistance today, Steve, which is this. The problem is way less the pagan, neo Malthusian eugenicist, BAAL Moloch worshiping cult members. That's the norm. That's the norm. The problem is an effeminate castrated church who is looking for the next attaboy and accolades from the culture. It's the flatulent church who's forgotten who she is, the great legacy that's been handed down to her and how she's called to live. That's the problem. The problem is the sons and daughters of God who know better but won't lift a finger to stop the killing. And so that's why my ministry is so focused on the local church. And then I joined a small pro life organization. I raised my own support. I started speaking on any stage I could, including like youth groups, men's Bible studies, and Protestant and Catholic high school chapels. And I did that for years until the scamdemic. I met a guy named Jack hibbs and Rob McCoy and then I launched the White Rose Resistance.
- [24:32]
A
After the break. I want you to tell us why you went with that name. And it's, it's historical. Significance. But how has everything that you went through. It's funny, I. I have these conversations now with my oldest daughter and her husband who are starting to get, you know, politically engaged and active for the first time. And, and I can't tell you how many times I've said to them, Seth, over the last couple years, now you know why I'm the way that I am and I've done things the way that I have done them. It's not what I thought I was going to be. And you know, you just knew me as the fun loving dad who came home and did High School musical karaoke with you every night. Okay, but now, now you're seeing the other side of your dad that other people have seen. And now you have. Now you're seeing why your dad has reacted in some of the situations in which he has had. In which he has. So how has that here in the next years, few two and a half minutes shaped the kind of man and leader you are now?
- [25:33]
B
Well, I think, brother, that we have grown up with so much abundance. I've grown up with so much abundance. Most Americans have grown up with so much abundance, right? Like when, when even the poor people are fat. Like, everyone's grown up with abundance, okay? And abundance is very dangerous. You see it throughout the Old Testament. You know, it's like, you know, God, remember, God tells me, it's like when I give you this land that you didn't have to fight for and that I deliver to you, okay? Like, don't worship the idols. Don't forget who brought you into the land that you didn't have to win. And then what's. What is the first thing that always happens? Abundance breeds selfishness. Selfishness breeds complacency. Complacency breeds apathy. Apathy breeds. Breathes dependency. And then we're right back again to bondage. It's called the Titler cycle, by the way. But so we've grown up with so much abundance that I think most men in the west, and I would say maybe more importantly in the church, have forgotten how to fight because we've never had to fight. And this is why I brought my son to life or death con that you spoke at in D.C. the other day. This is why I want my children to grow up in the fight, so that they understand the cost of life and liberty and they love it enough to defend it on behalf of those who can't as a sacrifice to our savior. So you said in two minutes. That's probably already two minutes. But yeah, men who don't know how to fight, are pathetic. They're useless. And if they remain free, they'll only remain free because of the exertions of better men than themselves.
- [27:18]
A
Wow, that'll preach right there. I gotta tell you. You can't see because he's off camera, but the amount I can't recall the last time I've seen Tad Erza nod his head affirmatively as many times as he has during the first 30 minutes of this conversation.
- [27:34]
C
I'm going to get a tattoo that says, be gone, you gay demon, and that has borne me a lot of fruit.
- [27:39]
A
Yes, yes.
- [27:41]
B
Amen, Todd.
- [27:42]
A
All right, so Seth Gruber is here with us. Before we go to the break, give us the website because we're to talk about what the name means when we come back. What is it again, Seth, thank you.
- [27:50]
B
The Whiterose Dot Life.
- [27:53]
A
The Whiterose Life. The Whiterose Life is where you want to go. So it's a very eclectic name, but it has a very specific meaning. What does the White Rose Resistance mean? What does it hearken back to? We'll get into that. And then I have a question that I know Seth can take some time answering. All right. Why is abortion still legal in America? And as a follow up question, how is it possible that we have lost ground after our biggest win? Imagine after D Day and the allies losing ground. That's pretty much what's happened on the pro life fight since the overturning of Roe. So why and what can be done about it? We'll get to those two questions, questions and more as we continue this special edition conversation with Seth Gruber here in a moment. Stay tuned.
- [28:58]
B
The Steve Day show.
- [29:01]
A
However, before we talk more about that, you may be struggling with too much chronic pain. That's because you've got too much inflammation in those joints. That's why it just kind of lingers there. That stiffiness, that achiness, that annoying us, that a word in your neck, back, knees, hips, more. That's where relief factor comes in. Now, we're not guaranteeing you anything is not a panacea, not an antidote, not a magic potion. But over the years, over 1 million people have tried the three week quick start I'm about to pitch to you. 70% of them saw such great results, they stuck with the product long term. So why don't you see if you don't see a difference in your pain level and way of life, quality of life in three weeks or less, especially when, and here's the best part, it'll cost you just 20 bucks to find out. That's all it is, the three week quick start. What do you got to lose for 20 bucks? For 70 odds of success, go to relieffactor.com get the three week quick start today at relieffactor.com it's just 20 bucks. Get the three week quick start today@ relieffactor.com. All right, back here on a special edition, special Evergreen edition of the Steve Day show here on Blaze tv, radio and podcast with Seth Kruber. All right, so Seth, your organization's called the White Rose, which harkens back to the White Rose resistance. What does that mean? Where does it come from?
- [30:25]
B
Yeah, it's a really incredible, incredible, moving story, Steve. It's one of the stories I found that most American Christians don't know about.
- [30:35]
A
I didn't know about it until I heard about it from you. So yeah, let the audience.
- [30:37]
B
There you go, There you go. From, from the best Christian prophetic cultural commentator. There you go, gentlemen. Steve Dase didn't even know about it. So I mean, listen, we all like if you say Wilberforce, right, Or if you say like Amy Carmichael or you could say Dietrich Bonhoeffer, you could say Oscar Schindler, you could go through a whole bunch. You could say Harriet Tubman, you could say Lord Shaftesbury. I mean, you could come up with all these different incredible names and most people would know something or a lot about those individuals. But the White Rose Resistance is one of the least known but most inspirational stories of Christian resistance in my opinion. There's been some revisionist history on it recently of people who are trying to kind of describe them as like democratic socialist liberals who were just concerned about the increase of state power. Power, but not the human atrocities being done by the Nazi regime. And there is some evidence that Hans Scholl, who we'll get into a second, had some kind of gay relationship before the rise of Hitler really became obviously problematic, but there's no evidence that that continued. His sister Sophie and Christoph Probst, Alexander Schmorell. Most of these people, these students involved with this movement were Christians. Most of them cited their faith as a significant reason for their resistance. But Sophie is by far the most inspirational member of this 20 something group of students in Munich, Germany in 1942 who were actually doing something to try to wake people up. It's been so much to me and my family that we named our daughter Sophie sunshine. The middle name will make sense in a second. And so it's 1942 and this 21 year old named Sophie is walking the sidewalks of Munich and she had dreams of becoming a schoolteacher. She was pretty horrified at what she was seeing was happening. By 1942, obviously people are pretty aware, most people are pretty aware of what's actually going on now. And she finds a pamphlet or a leaflet on the sidewalk and she picks it up and it says leaflets of the White Rose. And she starts to read this leaflet and it's explicitly condemning the crimes of the Nazis. And these leaflets would say things like, if you know, why do you not act? They would say, we are the White Rose Resistance, we are your bad conscience and we will not leave you alone. When you read through these leaflets, they're actually doing specific calls to action for passive and active forms of resistance, including like impeding German operations, slowing down their transportations, like, or more passive forms. And they were just trying to tell people, freaking do something. Do you not see what's happening? And so Sophie's reading this leaflet, Steve, and she starts to think, because I've read enough of the biographies and it's pretty fascinating, she starts to think, this sounds a lot like my brother Hans. Sounds like one of his rants that he might do at dinner time as he's going off on the Nazis. Well, come to find out that the White Rose Resistance had not only been co founded, it was being run by none other than her older brother Hannah, who was 24 years old, had helped co found the White Rose Resistance and was just trying to protect his little sister. I mean, he knew how dangerous political resistance would have been that late in the game, and he didn't want his sister involved. But Sophie demanded to join the White Rose Resistance and she became the youngest member and the only female of the White Rose Resistance for the rest of 1942. They begin to stay up late creating leaflets. They would, they had to randomly collect, you know, paper or, or ink or various resources from different entrepreneurial aligned friends so that it didn't look like they were all getting it in one place and roused suspicion. And they stay up late writing these things, printing. They take trains in the middle of the night to major German cities and they do leaflet drops around Germany. This is a social media campaign, pre digital age, Steve. This is kind of what we do at the White Rose Resistance. We create compelling, powerful media in many different forms to wake the church up and then we lead with action to show the local church what to do to actually restore righteousness to where you live. They became graffiti artists. They would graffiti on German owned buildings. Words like down with Hitler. And so the Nazis would come and paint over it the next day. They were well aware that the White Rose Resistance was a group behind this, but they didn't know who the individuals were. And then in 1943, Hans and Sophie took things to the next level. And on February 18, 1943, Hans and Sophie, brother and sister, walk onto the campus at the University of Munich, which if you go watch the 1916 Project either at Daily Wire plus or if you're listening to this and your pastor has any testicular fortitude left, you can host a screening of the 1916 project at your church by going to the 1009project.com.
- [35:46]
A
It's very well done, by the way. Let me say that it's very well done. Go ahead.
- [35:49]
B
Yeah, thank you, brother. That's very kind of you. It's a 75 minute documentary. Any church can screen it. It's a book as well. Well, we filmed that atrium of the University of Munich at the end. You'll see that in the film. And so Hans and Sophie enter this university during class time. Now, anyone with just a modicum of historical knowledge will know that it wasn't just the clergy that had been co opted into silence or obedience, right, by the Nazis, despots by Hitler. It was the universities too. I mean, it was, you know, that's why it's the Great Commission flipped upside down. It's a cultural mandate flipped upside down. Like pagans don't just want like one or two silos of influence, they want, they want the whole earth, right? That with every communist regime, there's no area that's left free, that's left safe. So the universities were as much a puppet of the state as much of the clergy had become, unless they were part of Bonhoeffer's Confessing Church. And so this was a dangerous thing to do is my point. In 1943, Hans and Sophie start dropping these leaflets off all around the university, right outside the classroom doors. And then right before the bell rings to release class, Sophie runs three stories up the same steps I walked to the third floor balcony of the University of Munich. And she throws rows, hundreds of leaflets three stories down to the atrium below. Now, you know what happens when you throw paper. Obviously it goes everywhere. It's just this beautiful, bold, defiant act. And of course the building is back before brutalism, so it's actually beautiful. You can just picture her doing this. And they're all falling like snow. And the janitor, who was a committed Nazi, catches Sophie in the act, calls the Gestapo on the spot. And has Hans and Sophie arrested. On February 18, 1943, Hans had attempted to eat, eat the last leaflet he had in his hands and swallow it because the handwriting would have implicated their friend Christoph Probst, who was in the hospital, who was going to visit the hospital to visit his wife, who had just given birth to their child. Unfortunately, the Nazis were able to get that last leaflet. It implicated their friend who they did not want at the university that day because he was a new father, and they arrested him a few hours later. Hans and Sophie spent three days being brutally interrogated and physically abused. I think one of Sophie's interrogations lasted seven or eight hours. There's a great film on this called the Final Hours. It's English subtitles, but it's profound. And they refuse to rat out, they refuse to implicate any of their other friends. They, they took all responsibility for everything in order to keep their friends free and safe. But unfortunately Christoph Probst was arrested as well, and four days later they had their heads chopped off. But their bravery in those days, and you read the accounts, it's incredibly convicting, their bravery so disturbed the prison guards that they relaxed the rules and let Hans and Sophie meet with their mother and father in a side room right before they were escorted to the guillotine. This was not normal practice. This actually could have led the prison guards to be terminated. But they were so inspired by Hans and Sophie. The executioner who was later interviewed, the dude who murdered them, said, I had never seen someone meet his end as she did. Did she went without the flicker of an eyelash. None of us understood how that was possible. Because of Sophie's cellmate, Elsie Gebbel, who survived World War II and later wrote letters to Hans and Sophie's parents. We have a pretty profound window into Sophie's final hours in a cell shared with this young woman and Sophie's. Some of Sophie's final words, and this is, this is why this is important, Steve, is because, like, I think that Sophie and Hans were thinking a lot of the same things that maybe decent semi awake Christians are thinking right now, which is like, how the heck did this happen? Like, how did we get here? And maybe more importantly, like, where is the church? Why. Why am I here here? Why are we the only ones saying what everyone's thinking? Why are we the only ones trying to rally people to do something? Why does it feel like I'm alone? Where's the church? I think very similar to, I think what a lot of Christians feel like these days. And According to her cellmate, some of Sophie's final words was this. And it starts with a question she said. She says, basically like, where's the real damage? How did this happen? And actually, I'll need to pull up the whole thing. I've been memorizing too many quotes recently. I forgot it. But she says this profound thing. She says, how can we expect righteousness to prevail when there's hardly anyone willing to give themselves up individually to a righteous cause? Such a fine sunny day, and I have to go now, but what does my death matter if through us, thousands of people are awakened and stirred to action? She says the real damage is done by all of those millions out there who just want to survive. The honest men and women who just want to be left in peace. Those who don't want their little lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who won't take measure of their own strength for fear of antagonizing their own weaknesses. Those who don't like to make waves or enemies. Those for whom freedom, honor, truth and principle. It's just literature. Those who live small die small. It's the reductionistic approach to life, because if you keep it small, you'll keep it under control. If you don't make any noise, the boogeyman won't find you. But it's all an illusion because they die, too. You should know those people who. Who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Sophie said, safe from what? Life is always on the edge of death. Narrow streets, they lead to the same place as wide avenues. And a little candle burns itself out just like the flaming torch does. But I choose my own way to burn. So according to her cellmate, these were some of Sophie's final words before she knew she'd have her. Her head chopped off. And I don't know about you, brother, but when I hear something like that, the first thing I'm thinking is, who talks like that at 21? That sounded Shakespearean and Chestertonian.
- [42:53]
A
Yes.
- [42:53]
B
What the heck was that?
- [42:54]
D
That.
- [42:55]
B
That's a young woman with the lion of the Tribe of Judah roaring inside of her. A young woman who cared more about truth and righteousness and the plight of her neighbor than her own reputation, her own career and her own future. And so, according to the executioner who dropped the blade, Sophie's final words with her head on the chopping block was, the sun still shines. And Hans's final words, according to the executioner, like William Wallace, was freedom and that was it. They spent the next few months rounding up the rest of their friends. The rest of their 20 something year old friends had all of them murdered, too. What we learned many years later is that three days after they were executed, they missed a meeting that had already been arranged for them. A meeting that Hans and the White Rose had agreed to go to with a young pastor who sat there waiting for Hans and Sophie to show up. And that pastor's name was Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
- [44:13]
A
Hmm.
- [44:15]
B
So that's why we call ourselves the White Rose Resistance.
- [44:22]
A
We've got about two minutes here. How many of our men do you think are ready to suffer whatsoever for what they believe? Whatsoever, like the loss of a business contract, a relationship, before we even get to a guillotine? I mean, just anything at all, it's willing to cost him. Anything at all.
- [44:51]
B
I try to ask myself that maybe once a month. And I think, and I hope I'm up to the task. My brother, AJ Hurley, one of the best kept secrets in the pro life movement, who runs all of our activism chapters, mobilizing the local church, he's up to the task. I think Steve Dase is up to the task. I know Jack Hibbs is up to the task. We could go through Sep. We could go through 20, 30 men, you and I together, probably really right now, but it's a short list. My hope and my great consolation, brother, is that the common man that loves the Lord takes care of his family and his home. The unknowns. They don't have podcasts, brother. They're the men who stayed. They stayed in their home town. And when evil shows up in the school board or in an abortion mill, they do something about it. I think there are more of those men than we think. And I think that if revival and reformation comes to America, maybe you and I can play a part in inspiring it. But it will take place in homes, in cities and counties with normal moms and dads, normal brothers and sisters, normal aunts and uncs, aunts and uncles who fear God and therefore they're fearless in the face of evil. My greatest fear is that most men, most men, well, to quote Chesterton, they don't differ so much about the things they will call evil, but they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable.
- [46:52]
A
Amen. Hour 2 with Seth Gruber is next. Stay tuned. Now, though, before we get on with the conversation, remember this. It's time for some life talk. Life insurance talk, that is. You probably have it. But do you know how much you're paying for it, do you know if it's hooked in with your employer and if you lost your job, what would happen? Well, for over 40 years, select quote has been one of the most trusted brokers in insurance, helping More than 2 million Americans secure over $700 billion. That's B in coverage. Their mission is simple. Find you the right insurance policy for your unique needs. They shop so that you say save. And unlike other one size fits all life insurance companies, select quotes, licensed agents work for you and if you've got a pre existing condition, they've got carriers that will help you with that as well. And again, they work for you and they do so for free. So get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50%@SelectQuote.com Steve save more than 50% on term life insurance@SelectQuote.com Steve today to get started. Started. That's SelectQuote.com Steve today before we get on with the show, remember our friends at Fast Growing Trees has America's largest and most trusted online Nursery. Over 2 million happy customers to attest to that. And they've got all the plants your yard or your home needs and they'll make sure it's customized for your climate which you want for your residents. And their alive and thrive guarantee promises that your plants arrive happy and healthy. No green thumb is required, just just quality plants that you can count on with their plant experts who can help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants and learn how to care for them every step of the way. Right now they've got great deals on all their spring planting essentials, up to half off on select plants too. And listeners to our show, you get 20 off your first purchase with the code DACE at checkout. That's an additional 20 off your first purchase when you go to fast growingtrees.com and use the code DACE. Code DACE for 20% off your first purchase right now at fast growingtrees.com use the code dace. All right, back here with hour two of a special evergreen edition of the Steve Day show with Seth Gruber. We're going to be rejoined by him here in just a moment. Don't forget, you can let us know what you think about what we think via the stevedays.com inbox by emailing us steve@steveday.com that's D E A C E like us on Facebook, me, we and gab. Follow me at Steve Day show on X Instagram and Tick Tock. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel at Day show on YouTube, though they probably won't catch on it. And then you can also hit subscribe or follow. Thankfully, for whatever reason, Apple doesn't hate us nearly as much as itunes or I'm sorry, as YouTube does. So hit subscribe or if you're, if you're on Apple itunes, follow there. That's how you're going to know that every time we do a new episode, it's right there in your feed. You can also leave us a five star review on the podcast platform of your preference. Literally tens of thousands of you have done that for us and we appreciate each and every one. So thank you you as we are rejoined here by Seth Gruber from White Ro. The White Rose Resistance One more time set that website is if people want to go there and follow your work.
- [50:21]
B
Yeah, the Whiterose life. The whiterose lif. And if you join as an ally at $35 a month or more, you get full access to our app, which will turn you into an Athanasious iconoclast pro life ninja, as well as our films and lots of other resources to make you feel really spicy and channel that, that inner, that inner Steve Dace Holy Spirit ninja that lives deep in the recesses of all our souls. The White Rose Dot Life.
- [50:48]
A
All right, let's send that ninja out into the theater of war here. All right, let's start with a confounding question. How is it possible after its greatest victory, the overturning of Roe, that the pro life movement has lost so much substantial ground? How is this possible?
- [51:11]
B
Oh, man. I mean, brother, it's so heartbreaking. And this is why we do this conference in D.C. every year the day before the March for Life is really to, I think, elevate the leadership that's so lacking in the pro life establishment with this amazing opportunity that we now have to ban abortion in as many states as possible. And yet all we're doing is bickering and arguing and name calling and it's incredibly frustrating. The answer will shock and maybe frustrate a lot of your listeners, but I'll give all the receipts and prove it if you'd like. The pro life movement is compromised because many RINO Republicans and even more tragically, many pro life organizations who take donor dollars from sweet little Christian grandmas who want to end abort. Those organizations are actively working against the aims of ending abortion, of criminalizing abortion, which just means, yeah, it's a baby, it's a person, and so therefore apply the same laws on the books that protect infants from being killed to the unborn. I thought that was what we were here to do. And when you ask lay Christians, you know what, like, what's the purpose of the pro life movement? They're like, to make it illegal. Right, right. Like, isn't it to make it criminal? Like, don't. Doesn't the unborn, don't we want to give them legal protection? It's just many pro life establishment leaders and organizations who are too dumb or compromised to grasp what the lay Christian absolutely understands without having to think about it. And so post Dobbs, Steve. Right, Post dos, everything goes back to the states. And so unfortunately we have blue states that have codified it through point of view of birth, which, you know, not even, I mean, it's worse now than it was before the overturning of Roe that I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't know how else to say it. And I don't rejoice in that. I'm not like Debbie Downer just because, you know, I like, I enjoy that. This is horrific to have to say. I mean, I think rogue getting overturned, I think it was a good thing, but I was hoping it was going to awaken the spiritual energy and motivation of Christians and pro life organizations in purple and red states to just go out there and criminalize it. And that seems to have not happened. And so now there are more babies getting murdered on an annualized basis every 12 months in the land of the free and the home of the brave, Steve, than there were being killed at an annual rate in the 10 years leading up to the overturning of Roe v. Wade. And those numbers are just based off of what's being reported to the federal government or the Guttmacher Institute. Planned Parenthood Research Branch is getting a lot of those numbers. But states are not required to report their abortion data. Thanks to Clinton, it's nearly impossible to track real abortion data when it comes to the RU486 abortion pill, which according to Planned Parenthood's own numbers, accounts for 70 plus percent of the total abortion. So you're talking 700,000 plus babies, 700,000 plus babies every 12 months being murdered and their bodies are flushed down toilets. That's how the RU486 abortion pill coaches people to get rid of the quote unquote products, flush it down the toilet. Those abortion pill numbers are not being reported. So the numbers that we do have, we know they're greater than that. And that's happening in red states, that's happening in North Dakota, South Dakota, Tennessee, South Carolina, Texas and Idaho. Okay, just to name some of the red estates, Florida has more abortion clinics right now than all the other Republican super majority states combined. What the hell are we doing? Where is the pro life movement? Where is the church on this? This is what an easy thing to do, Steve, in like I forgot Oklahoma, right? Another like super red state Oklahoma or Arkansas or South Carolina or North Dakota or South Dakota or Texas. You're telling me we can't criminalize it, we can't end it. And now here comes, now here comes the critic. Okay, going. Steve, you need to shut up your guest because I live in one of those states and I can tell you that we banned abortion from conception. It's basically banned in this state. Correct. It says on paper that it's against the law. And then the Rhino Republicans, supported by sometimes times pro life organizations, pressuring them to put in exceptions for the aborting mother, meaning 70% of abortions have no abortionist involved. It's the abortion pill. There's no ob gyn. She gets the pills through a video call or online, which any pimp can do, by the way, and just say they're a woman. Okay. And then they could go to her house in Texas. Against Texas state law, but no way to track it unless you're going to start opening the mail. Male they don't care she kills her baby. She's the abortionist. In that case, Steve, there's no. She's not going to a brick and mortar abortion mill. And so these super red states with Republican super super majorities have ensured that that unborn child does not have protections from the wrath of their mother or their father. And so if she kills the kid, she walks. She walks. Now watch how insane this is. A girl is on a. It's been with a boy for a year and they're pregnant and they're talking about what to do. They go out to dinner one night. He got the abortion pill and he slips it into her drink and stirs it up and it dissolves while she's taken a potty break. She drinks it and she aborts. They later do a test and find out that she had mifepristone trace elements. And so they realize and they track it back to the boyfriend. Guess what happens? He gets charged with homicide. And guess what? Lifesite News, Students for Life, National Right to Life, Concerned Women for America and the Susan B. Anthony list will all run articles calling for him to be charged for murder with murder for killing the baby. Okay, now Change the story. Same two couples, same restaurant, same night, same state, same scenario. She orders it because she says, I'm going to kill this effing little fetus. I don't want to be pregnant. She takes the pill herself. Same baby, same situation. She does it with willful intent to murder her child against state law. The pro life movement and the entire Republican establishment believes that she should walk, that she should not be held morally accountable. Not only is that asinine, the highest levels of asinine time, we're actually compromising our entire pro life argument, which is this. Ready for how crazy this is? There's no value giving difference between the unborn child in the womb and the, the, the infant outside the womb that would make it okay to kill them in the womb. And those differences of size, level of development, dependency are not relevant to one's right to life. That's the entire pro life argument, is that whatever's in the womb, that human being is equal in dignity, value and a right to life to any toddler or teenager, which means they deserve the same levels of legal protection. And what's the phrase, by the way, Steve, that the, that the pro life movement used for like 50 years at every march, Abortion is murder. That was like every sign at every pro life March, including the D.C. march for Life, for literally ever. And then the second that they get the chance to treat it as murder, broad swaths of the pro life movement are absolutely opposed to that. That and their belief is this. And I was told this by multiple pro life leaders, Steve. This is not hearsay. This is not Seth creating a straw man so that he can look like, you know, a St. Basil iconoclast. Crushing liberal, liberal arguments. This is, I've heard this word for word from pro life leaders, Seth. The woman, the aborting mother, she's a victim. She's the second victim. The baby who had their limbs ripped off their body and their eyeballs sucked out, they're the first victim, but the mother's the second victim. So because she's a victim of the lies of her feminist lesbian dance theory teacher that, that she had at UC Berkeley telling her that the baby's a parasite or because she reads us or Entertainment or watches Entertainment Tonight or because her mother was a butched, bald, second wave feminist related to Kate Millett. She's a victim of those ideas and the culture that she swims in. It's not her fault that she just wanted to slaughter her baby. I mean, I know some of these women F the fetus delete the fetus. I know some of them put paint on their body and in nine months pregnant it says not a baby. I know they yell at pro life sidewalk counselors outside of abortion mills, I'm going to kill this f and da da, da. But all those women are victim. All women are victims who kill their babies through abortion. And so therefore we have to have compassion. Don't you remember Jesus who said, neither do I condemn you. Now go and sin no more. As if the role of the pastor walking with a sinner is the same role as the state who Paul tells us does not bear the sword in vain. Talk about mixing up your categories. And so that's their belief. Now, I'm actually willing to grant that, Steve, that the woman is sometimes a victim 100%. You know who else are often victims? Pedophiles. Most pedophiles were themselves raped as children. So I guess we should not enforce any laws. We should not punish pedophiles who anally rape toddlers. Because if that pedophile was a victim and he's acting in very strange, sick and demonic ways, it's probably because he was anally raped as a kid and therefore the law should not fault him for doing the same thing. Right? We could go down the line on this. We're all victims, Steve. You and I are victims of our culture to some extent. Okay, But I don't usually like that language. But yeah, I guess because we're a victim of the sexual revolution and these things that have been normalized in the culture, that doesn't therefore mean that parents should have legal immunity and impunity to murder their children. And what's the limiting principle on this, by the way? Like, what if. What if they, the Democrats, succeed in making fourth trimester abortions great again, like infanticide? Like, now we're going all the way back to ancient Rome. Okay, hey, toss the infant on the wall. Who cares? Like, if that becomes part of our cultural milieu, then, like, and, and then like, that's legal in some states. Like, actually, Democrats kind of have semi legalized it in some cases where you're not allowed to investigate whether an infant was killed. Like, do we just not not prosecute parents who drown their infants in the bathtub one week from being born because they're a victim? Like, where are the limiting principles on this? Like, I don't understand this. It reminds me of something Milton Friedman said. He said, if you adopt the view that a man is not responsible for his own behavior, that somehow society is responsible, why should he seek to make his behavior good. If the law says, hey man, society, man, let me take another hit with Hunter Biden. Society made me do it, man. Why should anyone seek to be better if the law encourages law breaking? So as it stands right now, in every deep red state, abortion is legal for the aborting mother through the abortion pill, which in the next two years. Steve, I'm going to make a prophecy on your show. Although, you know, I don't go to Bethel, you know, or to Hillsong, but I'm going to make a prophecy legacy that those numbers will be nearing 80%, nearing 80% of the annual abortions within the next two years. So all 800,000 of those mothers are victims and they should not be punished. So what's the purpose of the law? It's to, it's to, it's to be a deterrent. Oh, shoot, if I do this, what's going to happen to me? It's to punish. So the actual justice, the actual carrying out of the justice. And then thirdly, laws of teacher, right? Aristotle said statecraft is soulcraft. So the state, through its laws and policies are actually shaping the moral conscience of the people. And we have a really stupid tendency as Americans to just assume that if something's legal, it's moral. It's very stupid. But most people do that. And when you grow up in a culture that declares abortion a legal right for the last 50 years because it's, you know, women need equality, it's not fair that he can do his orgiestic thing and then leave and then she's stuck with the thing and the baby. And so in order to be equal, women have to be able to kill their children. Like, that's been part of the, like, water we swim in for the last 50 years. And so people just end up growing up thinking like, well, I mean, it's got to. I mean, I guess it's okay. I guess it's moral. Like, I mean, surely like you're talking about like a million fetuses a year. Surely we wouldn't legalize something that horrific. Surely that's, we just have that very dumb tendency and people forget that third purpose of the law, that it's a teacher. And so we have this, we have this line that we get from Anthony Breitbart, Steve, that. Right. That politics is downstream of culture. And many pro life leaders have used that, that kind of thinking, that vein of thinking to excuse themselves from the lawmaking process, from the justice side, from the actually saying no, if you murder your baby in the womb after it's against the law. No one's retroactively rounding up women or calling for that. By the way, we're talking about after it's illegal, like, you will be punished. And a lot of pro life leaders, they're like, well, we just. Let's make abortion unthinkable. Hearts and minds. Let's. Let's win the hearts and minds. I'm all about winning hearts and minds. You know how many hearts and minds I've chosen changed through my film, the 1916 Project? I'm all about that. But it's not either or, it's both. And politics is downstream of culture, but culture is also downstream of politics. And here's one of my favorite examples of this, by the way. Steve. East and West Germany. Okay, so East Germany to this day, I believe the recent figures were like, East Germany's over 50% atheist, but West Germany is only 10% atheist. So, so what explains that? Is that a culture? Like, is it because of like, like variations in their bratwurst or something? Like, is that a. Is that a cultural explanation? No, that's obviously a political explanation. The East Germany government, government was dominated by an officially atheistic communist regime that made it its goal to stamp out Christianity. And that had cultural effects. Cultural effects. Another example would be Roe v. Wade in the years leading up to Roe v. Wade in the late 60s. Steve, the annual median number of babies being killed, what the numbers show at least is around 100,000. How many babies were being murdered through abortion by 75? 1976. Dude, it's like 1.6 million. So shocker. Law, influence, behavior, like legal, political. Things changed and it affected the culture. Oh, we could do this on, like, everything. Obergefell, right? Gay marriage leads to gay surrogacy. Now, there was a story in New York where two gay dudes, they broke up, but they had had twins, but only one of the men obviously was the biological father. And the non biologically related former sodomite lover who has no relationship to the twins that they were raising together when they were sodomizing each other, filed a lawsuit for custody of the twins that he had no relationship to, even though his sister carried the twins as a surrogate. But again, he had no relationship with the kids. And a court, New York chose to give the two twins to the non biologically related former sodomite lover who was sodomizing the twins f even though they're not together anymore. And the court in New York chose to remove the two twins from the biological father and give them to the non Biologically related former sodomite lover. And they, they, they justified this decision by citing the Obergefell decision by saying if marriage is no longer based on sexual complementarity and the needs of children, then neither is the definition of a parent. So look at that. A political thing changed and it started changing the culture and now children don't have a right to a mother and a father. So we have to really be clear on this with the pro life movement. And I'll give you. We'll name some names I'm fine with in a second. But like so many of our pro life leaders are major pro life orgs. They're like hearts and minds. Hearts and minds change. Hearts and minds. But the law, politics like, like telling like the law the state's going to enforce justice, you know, punish, you know why murder their babies. We don't do that.
- [67:43]
A
Seth, you know why? You know why this is. So let's make sure we tackle it before we run out of time here in the next eight minutes, which is they believe that is a political loser. Loser. That, that you not only are going to see single women turn radically against us, which we've already seen for being even moderately pro life, but I would estimate based on the best data I've seen, at least 40% of Republican women really aren't sincerely pro life in any way, shape or form. And so they would say if we put the Wonder Woman lasso of truth around them to explain everything. You just, you just explained to us the rationale would be they're trying to walk, walk a political tightrope between what they really believe and what they think they can really achieve.
- [68:25]
B
Yeah, I've heard that a lot. That certainly becomes the argument. There's. So there's two, two points on that. One. We were told that about Roe v. Wade getting overturned, Steve. We were told by our Republican political betters who look at all the polls and do the research that this, that after Roe v. Wade got overturned, this was going to be political suicide in red states. Because now it goes back to the states. Now the federal illusionary right to murder your kids is taken away. And so any Republican running on a pro life platform or being very vocal in their pro life views is going to absolutely lose. Why? Because what is, what is. All the polling allegedly show Americans love abortion. Most Americans would be pro choice in, in some trimester, right? Like not very many Americans support third trimester, but some of them, many of them support first trimester. Well, guess what ended up happening in every red state in their statewide elections. After the overturning of Roe v. Wade, Republicans gained seats in every red state. The party that is allegedly pro life, that allegedly has it in their platform to protect unborn babies, ought to have suffered an absolute shellacking at the state level after the overturning of Roe v. Wade. And actually the opposite happened. And so I understand that many Americans are confused on the abortion topic. I just am not convinced that Americans love abortion as much as we often see portrayed on social media, because obviously it's very, very clickbait friendly to put up the crazies who are screaming. So it creates this false portrayal of the divide that America's somehow cleanly divided between, like, you know, Doug Wilson, Jack Hibbs, pro life Christendom warriors, and Kate Millett, you know, Percy Shelley, feminist abortion queens. That's not the case. That does not describe the American political divide. Most Americans don't go around thinking about abortion every single day. Most Americans, especially in the wake of the Biden administration, are just trying to pay bills. And so I just don't think Americans love abortion as much as we think. I think the crazies do. And so they outwork a lot of the pro lifers, and that still has consequences. But when it ends up going to the people in red states, the opposite proved true. The other thing is that that strategy of how can we win elections without pissing off the moderate voter base, what's the least we can do and still win elections? I'm now convinced that that has been the wrong political strategy. And my proof for that is how successful the left has been. They rarely temper their radical views in order to try to win elections. Sometimes you see people like Gavin Newsom who's, like, trying to portray himself as, like, a reasonable moderate now with his stupid new podcast because he's obviously running for President 2028, and his track record in California is just too horrific for even most liberals. But by and large, the Capital L leftism movement does not temper or moderate their views in order to align with the polls. Like when Hillary Clinton's defending abortion through all nine months of pregnancy in the Trump Clinton presidential debates, is she tempering her political views? I mean, and so I think that we've just forgotten the kind of political hardball we have to play. Actually, I think we have to start pushing way harder and informing the people. And this is why at White Rose, we just launched a C4 for anyone that wants to get behind that, because we're gonna start educating, discipling, mentoring legislators to be able to make the case for the Pro life position and other positions with absolute moral clarity without pulling any punches. Because when you communicate the truth and you do it well, most Americans are like, oh, yeah, yeah, I guess that makes a lot of sense. I see that. But the left is louder and they often prepare longer. And then rhino Republicans just show up and they look like ass hats. And so we have to change the narrative and we have to change the kind of politics that we play. And that's always going to happen at the local level.
- [72:47]
A
We have about four minutes left. What would you say? I mean, listen, I wish we so fast with you. I was going to say the same thing to you, but we have about four minutes left. How do we win?
- [73:03]
B
Yeah, that's good. Well, the first 1900 years of church history certainly stands as an indictment against the last 100. It's not as if the church has never gone through seasons of cowardice. It's not as if the church has never gone through seasons of darkness where they felt so completely outnumbered that they didn't see a way to restrain evil. Of course there's always seasons, but by and large, that statement is true. The first 1900 years of church history stands as an indictment against the last 100. Yes, I'm all for political engagement. I just launched a C4. It's called White Rose Action. We're going to be doing this kind of stuff at the state level, but like I said earlier, criticizing pro life leaders. Oh, I said I was going to name some them. Susan B. Anthony list, Concerned Women for America, Care Net, Heartbeat International, Students for Life. Although we're praying that they remove their name from the Marjorie Dannen's Feller letter that's being used to castigate conservative state legislators, National Right to Life. The list goes on and on. These people are actively working against equal rights protection to criminalize abortion. I know I criticize them for just being about, you know, culture, culture, culture and not politics, but it really is both. And. And we're very focused on the culture because long term, we're not going to revolutionize America or rather return her to something that used to be very normal purely through politics. This is going to come from the pulpits of America. This is going to come from families outbreeding the left, catechizing their children and raising little freaking dragon slayers, okay? Who are catechized, who can recite multiple chapters of the Bible, the Bible, who know the heroes of the faith, at least the big ones, in the last 2000 years, and can imbibe that legacy and be a threat to evil. Okay. That's how it's going to happen. It's going to start in. In homes and it's going to start in pulpits. And that's why our next film, the Last Stand, is to remind the church who she used to be. The great legacy we've received, if we do another one of these, Steve, there's this whole story of resistance after the French Revolution, which we could do 90 minutes on just the French Revolution as the cradle of the modern, modern left. And the heroes that the Lord starts raising up like Jean Henri, Merle Dabignier, who starts to contend politically and get the church involved culturally after the sexual perverts who come out of the revolution, who pours into Kroon van Prinstrer, who writes a book called Christian Political Action in an Age of Reformation, Getting the church Engaged and Groon. Van Prinstrar disciples Abraham Kuyper, who becomes a prime minister of the Netherlands, who disciples Herman Bovink and Cornelius van Til, who end up having these incredible mentor disciples. Disciples named Francis Schaefer and R.C. sproul, who then pour into people like Dr. Nancy Pearcey and Dr. George Grant, my mentor and the producer of our next film, the Last Stand, being showed in Denver on June 6th. Go to thelastand.com like Simba in the Lion King, when we remember who we are, only then can we save our land. Schaeffer said that the ignorance of the church is more dangerous for a culture richer than the decadence of the world. Remembrance and forgetfulness are the measuring rods of faithfulness through the Bible and reveals that there are only two kinds of people in this world, effectual doers and forgetful hearers. When we remember who we are and the great legacy that's been handed down to us, the gates of hell don't stand a chance. That is how we win in the long term is when the church flatulent becomes the church militant.
- [76:40]
A
Brother. That'll preach right there. Seth, that was outstanding, brother. Thank you.
- [76:44]
B
Thank you, Steve.
- [76:45]
A
We'll come back, get Todd and Aaron's thoughts next.
- [76:56]
B
The steve day show.
- [77:04]
A
I am very excited to first tell you about our friends over at Pocket Hose. They're the world's number one expanding garden hose. And I'm going to tell you, this is one of those products like when TBO came out, you're like, why didn't they do this many years ago? I And it just makes everything in your yard so much easier. No more kinks in the hose. No more hassle storing it. No more constant things that you've got to, you know, get the, get the, straighten out the hose so the water pressure works. It's like it's got a 360 degree pivot on it as well. I mean I absolutely love the rotation, the, the convenience, the pop hour. And for a limited time you can purchase the new pocket hose ballistic and you'll get a free 360 degree rotating pocket pivot and a free thumb drive nozzle. Just text Steve to take advantage of this offer to 64, 000. That's the number. Text Dace I should say my bad. Text DACE to 64000 for your two free gifts with purchase. Text DACE to 64000 right now. Message and data rate supply. Text DACE to 64,000. All right, back here to wrap up this special edition of the Steve Day Show. Holy moly. Did Seth Krueger just lay down some ordinance here for the last 90 minutes or so? Wowza. Wowza. So let's not hesitate any longer. Without further ado, Todd Erzin, Aaron McIntyre, you guys were sitting here just experiencing that in real time along with the audience against the floor belongs to you, man.
- [78:37]
C
I'd imagine that that's what listening to St. Paul live and in person sounded like and felt like. A dude is crazy smart, but it doesn't matter how smart you are if you don't make yourself a slave to Jesus Christ. And that guy makes his reason and his logic a slave to the King of kings and the Lord of Lords. And he does it. I, I, when I see him on social media as now, I don't know, he's, he's mentioned Jack Hibbs. I saw him out in California and Hibbs was when I was with you, Steve, at an event. He's some strain of evangelical, I don't know of what sort. I don't care. I do know online and he did it several times again today. He often quotes Chesterton, a Catholic of the beginning of the 20th century. There's a very important lesson in all that because a lot of the social media stuff online is guys on both sides of those tribes warring with each other instead of lifting each other up as Seth does by constantly going to the well with chaos. Chesterton and I think the point he made there at the end about the first 1900 years of Christian history. Notice he didn't parse that. And he didn't go to the Reformation. He didn't mention that once. He's absolutely right about that. The term the Dark ages was a, is a pejorative and it's used by secularly minded people throughout history to label a time where Rome had moved out. But I'll tell you what. The true dark ages of the last 2000 years are where we live right now because of everything that says about who we are, our excuses why we love being victims within the church. We love it. We are what CS Lewis talked about in the Great Divorce. Constantly seeking to jam that square peg of our heaven, hell into the round hole of heaven. And we resent being told otherwise. We don't even want to go to heaven. If I have to be like this, this and this, that's a problem. And you know who understood that problem? Great people like Seth Gruber's parents raised in California. Seth mentioned is a. Seth is 20 years younger than me. All right, so California was already on the way. This isn't Ronald Reagan winning or anything like that. It's certainly gotten worse since then. But those parents understood, I'm going to raise my kids. California isn't. And they had expectations of their children under God. And look what came out of this in California. Which doesn't mean that a different kid might not be able to get homeschooled and then put into public school or that the public schools of today are worth engaging in that experiment. And you might have the choice to go elsewhere. I know, obviously, you know, if you listen to this show, I had to make that choice with my own family. But one compromise I never made. We're raising our children, my wife and I, under God. This is the expectation of who you are. My four daughters all have different talents, and we adjust, adjust accordingly. But the close hand of what all of them are expected to do, it's not. That's why they have turned out the way they have, because I think we share something with Seth Gruber's parents. We aren't victims. We get to decide. We will decide. We must decide. And now you have a man like Seth Grubbing Schuber who is out there barnstorming the country in the name of the good, the true and the beautiful. It's not an accident. It happens because we demand it as Christians. And that is a truth on every single front. When we're talking about pro life or transgenderism or what's going on with ICE or any place else, our comfort, as Seth Gruber said, fine. You're tired of listening to me say it. Listen to him. It's killing us. And God bless Mr. And Mrs. Groover for saying we will never sacrifice our children on that wicked altar of baal.
- [83:24]
A
Amen Aaron.
- [83:26]
D
Well, between Todd and Seth, I don't think there is much more to say. Listen, I don't know how we missed this guy up until I think two years ago was maybe the first time we had him on on, but he's been one of our, one of my favorite new additions that we've had on as a regular guest. Finally having the chance to talk to him in long form was much needed. But there's something that resonated with me and maybe it's just recency, but there's something that resonated with me towards the end of the conversation. The remembering who you are are part of this. See, I'm not sure if it's, I'm not sure if it's actually a matter of remembering who we are as believers, what the tradition that we come from is supposed to entail. I think actually if you, you know, this phrase that you've been seeing bandied about online, I'm going to maybe augment it or change it a little bit. The purpose of a system is what it does. The purpose of a human being is what it does. If our ethics are out of alignment with our morals, that really says everything about who we are. Meaning our ethics are one thing, but the way we act, act is another. Your ethics aren't really worth much. Same thing can be said for those who claim the name of Christ, who maybe claim a rich theological tradition, maybe can do all of the things that Seth is rightly saying that, that, that parents should be teaching and catechizing their children in. Maybe they can, maybe they can quote chapters and chapters of, of. Of scripture. But when it comes to the game of confrontation, when it comes to the matter of confrontation, when it comes to truly being salt and light, salt can be sting. It can be a very caustic material if it gets on an open wound. When it comes to being the salt and light in the world, all of a sudden we're mia and I'm talking about the best of us. I'm not even talking about the, the pleated khaki sweater vested pastor that we're rightfully always castigating. We're not even getting to him. We're talking about the best of us. When we say we believe one thing, but our actions or lack thereof say something completely different. The purpose of your life really isn't what you're saying that it is. If you're spending more time living to escape than just escaping to live. The purpose of your life is escapism. That's what you're saying. Anyway, that's what you're communicating really. Maybe not your stated beliefs, but that's what your actions say you believe. That's what your actions say your purpose on life is. And that is 180 degrees opposed to the high, high cost that was paid for your soul. It's diametrically opposed
- [86:54]
A
to
- [86:57]
D
what you state with your words the purpose of your life is. All this is to say, I just want to underscore this point again, remembering who you are are. Is it so much that we have forgotten who we are or that we aren't really what we say we are? If there's not a pit in your stomach when you're, when you're contemplating that
- [87:24]
A
question,
- [87:26]
D
because what it says about the state of your soul, what it says about the potential of your, your eternal being, that could be a cause for concern. So you have a choice before you, you can really start acting the way that you say you believe, or you can eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. That's basically the choice. It's what Todd's is always saying. Get busy living or get busy to dying. If you wanted to sum up that entire conversation in one phrase, it would have to be that. So just something that stuck out to me at the end of that conversation.
- [88:11]
A
I think this hits home something for me. I've been stressing for about a year now, as at the time we're recording this, we cannot sustain this with a political movement ahead of the church. It's just simply not sustained. I mean, the, the, the level of commitment that we are up against is religious in nature. Donald Trump is not a, is not an eternal figure. He's, he's pushing 80 years old. He's about to be term limited. Depending on how the midterms go, he, he, he might be essentially neutered for much of the rest of his, of the term that he does have left, we don't know. And, and there's no question that through him, and, and what they've tried to do to him, the system, by virtue of seeing him as the king of their resistance, he has woken up a layer of person that was previously asleep in America. I think we would all agree there is some truth to at least some truth to that, to some extent. Extent. But to what, I mean, what it will take to defeat what we're up against, which is a rival religion. And the only way you beat a bad theology is with a good one. And, and, and sending a political movement up against a spiritual one is a little bit like trying to fight someone with weapons of mass destruction. And you have conventional, conventional weaponry. You might even have devastating conventional weaponry. You might even have the absolute best soldiers in terms of piloting and operating that conventional weaponry. But when one side, when one side can just push a button and eliminate whole swaths of your population. And that's kind of where we are from a culture war standpoint. And, and there is only one institution that God has created. Now here's what I also think though. Or one in. Let me finish that thought. One institution that God has created that is equipped to take on our opposition. But I also think we need to open ourselves up to the fact that waking up the church may not look the way that it has looked in the past. And, and I am more and more becoming convinced. What can I do to get my sleeping pastor awake? Nothing. And I'm becoming more and more con. Convinced. Is it Revelation 3 when Jesus says I will come to you and take away your lampstand? That I think we have seen evidences of this and that actually, you know, for many are called, but few are chosen. It's, it's, it's those maga people that have maybe lack a true understanding of why they have to repent of their sins and who their savior here is, but at least have some level of, of instinct that they have demonstrated about wrong and right. That that may be our primary mission field now as a church standpoint. Now a lot of your pastors don't want that mission field. They want Karen as a mission field and her beta husband. And that's, you know, the seminary they went to and the church growth operation they've signed up for. But, but that's exactly why I'm not interested in, in waking those people up anymore. I, I am not. And I think we need to understand the Lord doesn't do math the way that we do. Like we're looking at all the people in those whitewashed tomb churches thinking, man, they'd look great, you know, added to our ranks. But we're doing addition and subtraction. The Lord only does multiplication. It's multiplication or nothing. I mean, 110 people are all that's left of the m. Of the, of the, of the, of the three and a half year ministry of Jesus Christ. And, and through them was planted the most potent force movement in the history of the species, the Christian church. I mean 56 men are in Constitution hall signing a declaration of independence. Through the them comes the most formidable nation in the, you know, in the history of the world. God does multiplication. And so I, I really think now it is not about, it's not. We don't need to do our own church growth thing. Well, look at all these suburban mega churches and all the people there and their quiet is kept. If we could only get in there. I don't think we're getting in there. I think the Lord's largely moved on there. There will be a remnant. I mean there will be some Nicodemuses and Joseph of AR who will come to, to us and recognize what the Lord is doing. And they've been on the right, they're on the wrong side of prophetic history, but they'll I think come to us. I think this is now a moment and this is what I said at Seth's event when I spoke there in January. I think, I think this is now a moment where the Lord, after He feeds the 5,000 and, and, and begins to teach the Word and people get up and walk away. He does not go after them, but he turns to his disciples and he says, well you, you now abandoned me too. And Peter gives the famous confession, Lord, where would we go? You have the words of eternal life. And, and I think now we have more than enough people to change the country and change the world. What we need to do is equip them to do that. And I think we need to change our ministry focus that it's no longer about how do we get the soft headed church, churches, no, how do we get the people who have stiffened their spine in response to the evil that we are up against and know what time it is? How do we equip them to do the work of the ministry of the saints? I think it's that. Does that make sense what I'm saying here?
- [94:16]
C
I think so, yeah.
- [94:16]
A
And I think whatever those numbers are, that's more than enough for the Lord.
- [94:26]
D
Show no partiality.
- [94:27]
A
There you go. There you go. Great way to end it. Don't feel bad man. It's tough to, it's tough to follow up. Seth. I have some experience with that. It's not easy. Back at it again next time right here on Blaze TV, radio and podcast. Until then, go hard. Romans 8:28. Don't forget that. You can't miss anything we do here at BlazeTV and the way you won't is by being a subscriber. Go to blazetv.com dace and if you use the code Dace days, you'll get $20 off your annual subscription to Blaze TV so that you don't miss all the stuff you can't miss and it's not just from our show here, the the crew at the Steve Day show, but all the various shows that you know and love here at Blaze tv. You get everything we do, all the exclusive stuff we do, all the behind the scenes stuff we do, all the extra stuff we do. You won't miss any of it by being a subscriber to Blaze TV. Comes out to just about eight bucks a month, 26 cents or so a day. Can't beat it. I gotta believe we're worth 26 cents a day. Otherwise, what are we doing here? Okay. Blazetv.com dace and if you don't think we are clearly like Ali or somebody, has to be worth 26 cents a day. Blazetv.com days use the code DACE for that big discount for your Blaze TV subscription at BlazeTV.com days.