The ONE Question Every Iran Deal Critic Needs to Answer | 6/18/26

Summary

Steve Deace Show — Episode Summary

Episode Title: The ONE Question Every Iran Deal Critic Needs to Answer
Air Date: June 18, 2026
Host: Steve Deace
Network: Blaze Podcast Network

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the political, strategic, and theological debates surrounding President Trump’s newly signed US-Iran Memorandum of Understanding (MOU). Steve Deace, with characteristic snark and principled conservatism, scrutinizes the conservative criticism of the “Iran Deal,” probing critics for their concrete alternative while warning of unintended consequences in both policy and political branding. The second hour features a practical “Theology Thursday,” introducing the book Bible Sidekick for listeners looking to deepen their biblical literacy. The show concludes with a segment on Gen Z’s shifting relationship with faith, centered around pop culture examples.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. News Recap and Iran Deal Context

[00:01–01:44] Montage / News Recap

• President Trump signed a US-Iran MOU at Versailles. Details are sparse, but a 14-point plan is being widely reported.
• Vice President JD Vance, in a CBN interview, emphasizes that additional military action is "always on the table," but questions its effectiveness—a sentiment echoed by Chris Danielson.
• Other top stories: The Federal Reserve keeps interest rates unchanged; Ukrainian drone attacks in Russia; UK media blackout on the Rape Gang Inquiry; a Des Moines-area public school administrator's legal troubles and ICE evasion.

---

2. The “Finish the Job” Debate: Iran Policy Critique

[01:44–06:00 & 09:35–15:46]

Main Question: What Do Iran Deal Critics Actually Want?

• Steve Deace: Raises the core issue: Critics demand to "finish the job" with Iran, but are vague on what that means. Is the alternative regime change, more bombing, or something else?
• Chris Danielson: Argues that further military action would only continue a perpetual cycle of new Iranian leadership and more infrastructure damage without changing behavior.
• Steve: Uses the analogy of killing 90% of weeds but leaving the roots, emphasizing that unless the regime changes its attitude, America faces unending trouble.

Notable Quote:
"If the people who run the country [Iran] don't change their behavior, over the long term, you're always going to have this problem. It's a thorn in the side of the US." — Chris Danielson [00:51]

---

3. Political & Theological Dimensions to Conservative Backlash

[10:56–15:57, 27:12–28:56]

2028 Election Proxy Fight?

• Steve speculates that some opposition is “subversive proxy” for the 2028 Republican primary, pitting JD Vance (leverage/negotiation) vs. Marco Rubio/Ted Cruz (Israel-first foreign policy).
• Warns against branding a candidate “Israel first” as it will worsen anti-Semitism on the right and alienate young conservative voters.

Notable Quote:
"If you brand Rubio as the Israel first candidate, they're toast...all you're going to do is Tucker Carlson's RSS feed. Don't say I didn't warn you." — Steve Deace [12:46]

Is Regime Change the Only Real Alternative?

• Steve points out that true alternatives are either a deal with Iran, or full-on regime change through war, which the American public will not support.
• Discusses the unlikelihood of sustained US commitment to regime change, referencing Iraq/Afghanistan and domestic political fallout.

Notable Quote:
"There are only two options on the table. We make a deal, or we remove the regime. Is there another option on the table I am not aware of?" — Steve Deace [15:57]

---

4. Examining the Cost & Strategic Logic

[16:36–20:57; 25:23–26:07; 33:33–34:59]

• Steve challenges critics: Continuing to bomb or apply pressure is not only economically and politically costly (high gas prices, inflation, risk of electoral losses), but will not yield better compliance from Iran.
• Emphasizes US domestic fragility: Conservatism is “hanging by a very thin thread,” and wasting “political capital” overseas could doom “the war at home.”

Notable Quotes:
"We have to win the war at home. We cannot afford to expend any more political capital outside our own borders." — Steve Deace [26:23]
"I'm a data guy. I don't project stuff. I do data. And I don't see that math checking out, like, on any level at all." — Steve Deace [46:17]

---

5. Theological Motivations and the 'Israel' Factor

[27:12–28:56; 36:47–36:53]

• Todd Erzin raises that dispensationalist views may drive some right-wing opposition, believing America has a theological duty to unconditionally support Israel, even at national risk.
• Steve: “I hope that's not it. I can't guarantee, though, that it's not, at least for some.”

---

6. Closing the Iran Segment: Trump’s Approach and the Realistic Path Forward

[39:23–40:16; 42:32–42:40]

• Trump’s policy: stick first (military/political strikes), carrot later (deal), repeat as needed; not unique to Iran but classic Trump.
• Steve: Critics need to be honest if what they really want is regime change, instead of pushing US toward a widely unpopular war.

Notable Quote:
"If you're for regime change, just say it because I don't understand the argument. I truly don't." — Steve Deace [41:02]

---

7. Theology Thursday — Accessible Bible Study

[49:29–75:58]

Introducing the Bible Sidekick Resource

• Steve and Pastor Chris Danielson present Bible Sidekick, a 500-page, lay-friendly guide to Bible study and context—intended for both new and seasoned believers.
• Emphasizes the importance of historical and cultural context in understanding scripture.
• Chris Danielson: Book and related ministry available via freshroadmedia.com for a donation.

Notable Quotes:
"We merge five or six seminary classes in very common man language...a platform where anyone can get the information they want about all 66 books." — Chris Danielson [52:50]
"Theology...is only beneficial in as much as it helps you to love God with your mind." — Steve Deace [77:03]

Historical Context Highlight:

• Discussion of “silent years” (400 years between OT & NT), rise of Hasmonean dynasty, influence on Christ’s era—underscoring why context matters in Bible study.

---

8. Gen Z & Modern Faith: Pop Culture & Idolatry of Self

[81:01–95:43]

Viral Clip Analysis: Nick Jonas & Brandon Lake's “The Author”

• Anastasia Dace, Steve’s daughter, plays and analyzes a podcast clip in which Nick Jonas discusses collaborating on a Christian-themed song.
• Jonas claims faith is becoming “cool” again but frames the song’s message as finding a bigger plan/purpose—without exclusive reference to Christianity.

Notable Segment (Nick Jonas, [83:38]):
"More and more people are getting in touch with their faith because of how messed up things [are] around the world...you don't have to be a person that believes in Jesus and God to understand there's some plan in place..."

• Anastasia’s take: Gen Zers increasingly admit “something bigger than themselves,” but struggle to give up the idol of self; their concept of “love” is often not biblically rooted.

Steve’s Analysis:

• Draws analogy to the millennial “spiritual but not religious” trend and emergent church. Warns that diluting Christianity to pure “do-gooderism” erases its boundaries—and, ultimately, its appeal.

Notable Quotes:
"At some point, Nick Jonas is going to have to determine, am I going to give you your God or my God? When he says no, he’s just the same fundamentalist that they think you and I are." — Steve Deace [90:54]

“Love is...the cross, and that cross had a person who died on it and his name is Jesus. So he's wrong on so many levels.” — Todd Erzin [92:06]

---

Most Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “We make a deal, or we remove the regime. Is there another option?...Stop me if I'm being unfair.”
  Steve Deace [15:57]
• “Branding Rubio as the Israel first candidate...that's terrible branding. And you’re going to weaponize...”
  Steve Deace [12:46]
• “If you're for regime change, just say it because I don't understand the argument. I truly don't.”
  Steve Deace [41:02]
• “We have to win the war at home. We cannot afford to expend any more political capital outside our own borders.”
  Steve Deace [26:23]
• “There's only two options. We either negotiate, or we demand unconditional surrender. Am I missing an option?”
  Steve Deace [16:35]
• “This is not unique to Iran...this is the most Trumpian thing ever.”
  Todd Erzin [39:08]
• “Theology...is only beneficial in as much as it helps you love God with your mind.”
  Steve Deace [77:03]
• “I think the problem is...a lot of Gen Zers hold on to this idol of we have to love and accept everything...but there’s one central message: you are not God.”
  Anastasia Dace [86:00]
• “If it's not about that [2028 proxy war], and we're making a good faith argument, I really don't understand what it is the critics of this deal wanted.”
  Steve Deace [15:57]
• “You can't on one hand say they'll never keep a deal, and then say this deal sucks. If they're never going to keep a deal, then what does it matter whether this deal sucks or not?”
  Steve Deace [18:39]

---

Segment Timestamps

• 00:01–01:44 — Opening montage, US-Iran MOU, headlines
• 01:44–06:00 — Iran critics’ arguments & alternative options
• 09:35–15:46 — Iran/Israel foreign policy & 2028 proxy war debate
• 15:46–26:23 — Critique of escalation, cost of action, domestic priorities
• 27:12–28:56 — Theological motivations: dispensationalism & Israel
• 33:33–34:59 — Strategic summary: the “six truths” of the Iran stalemate
• 39:23–43:38 — Trump’s approach, regime change honesty, risk calculus
• 49:29–75:58 — Theology Thursday: Bible Sidekick, context study, Protestant/Catholic differences, biblical authority
• 81:01–95:43 — Gen Z segment: pop Christianity, Nick Jonas-Brandon Lake song, critique of “main truth is love”/idol of self

---

Tone & Style

• Direct, snarky, and incisively logical: Steve calls out what he sees as “retarded” or self-destructive strategies, but grounds arguments in electoral realities and scriptural principles.
• Collegial but pointed debate: Frequent checks with co-hosts and requests for correction, especially regarding friends and respected colleagues who differ.
• Practical-minded: Repeated emphasis on “data, not projection,” and the real-world stakes—electoral, economic, and spiritual.
• Accessible and evangelical: Shifting seamlessly from high-level political analysis to Bible study guidance aimed at listeners new to theology.

---

Useful Takeaways for Listeners

• If you criticize a 60-day Iran ceasefire/MOU, are you really calling for regime change and a long, costly US war—even against US popular will?
• Political branding and theological motivations can create harmful “Israel-first” perceptions, fueling division and anti-Semitism in the conservative movement.
• Practical spiritual resources like Bible Sidekick can help listeners gain much-needed biblical context—addressing the “silent years,” the rise of Pharisees/Sadducees, and more.
• Gen Z’s open but often vague search for meaning is discussed within the context of modern celebrity faith statements.

---

For Further Exploration

• Bible Sidekick: FreshRoadMedia.com — donation-based print resource for accessible Bible context.
• Topic for reflection: Is US foreign policy set by pragmatic cost-benefit, prophetic belief, or primary politics?
• Segment for new listeners: “Theology Thursday” provides easily digestible Bible study help, especially for beginners.

---

End the episode summary:

“If you criticize the Iran MOU, but reject both further deals and regime change, what—exactly—are you proposing? That’s the ONE question every Iran deal critic needs to answer.” — Steve Deace [Recurring theme, 15:57, 41:02, 42:32]

Transcript

[Steve Dace]

It's the Steve Day show. And here's what happened while we were away. Brought to you by a done deal. President Trump formally signed the US Iran Memorandum of Understanding at Versailles palace in France yesterday. Apparently the signing deal in Geneva is now off the table for tomorrow. The details of the arrangement, to our knowledge, have not been released officially by our government, but various media outlets have reported and corroborated a 14 point plan. You can find and read for yourself regardless of the details. Vice President J.D. vance tells CBN News, There are gonna be fol.

And you've heard the critics obviously that say, look, finish the job.

[Todd Erzin]

Right?

[Steve Dace]

And I know you're saying finish the job. They're not saying an endless quagmire though you suggest that maybe that's exactly what they're saying. But we had them on the ropes. The question is, why not finish the job? It's kind of like a weed in your backyard. You kill 90% of the weeds, but if you don't get the root of the problem, the weeds are growing back.

[Chris Danielson]

Yeah, so I understand that argument. And what I would say is what is additional military action, which is always on the table? We can always do that. What does additional military action accomplish for us right now? More of their leadership. But you're going to have additional leadership below that. You could cause more destruction to their economy, Right? We could do that. We've already caused probably a trillion dollars of destruction to their industrial base and so forth. But fundamentally, unless the people who run the country change their behavior over the long term, you're always going to have this problem. It's kind of a thorn in the side of the United States of America. And so what we're seeing is we're going to pause here. We're going to open the straits, we're going to relieve some pressure on the world economy, lower energy prices and see if this group of Iranians that are running the country, they say that they want to do things differently. Let's give them that opportunity. If they do, great. And if they don't, we can always go back to the other options.

[Steve Dace]

Federal Reserve under new chair Kevin Warsh announced yesterday they're leaving interest rates unchanged and some signals indicate they may raise them later this year. President Trump received the news waiting to board Air Force One in France.

[Chris Danielson]

It's all right, whatever. And it looks like they might even raise them later this year. It's not clear. Do you have any comments happen? I mean, it's hard to believe. It just keeps a country down, you know, so it's so Unusual, but we have a very good guy over there now, so I'm guided by what he wants.

[Steve Dace]

Ukraine launched a major attack on Russia in the Moscow region in a drone attack that targeted an oil refinery. Obviously a shot across the bow of Russia in an attempt to bring them to the negotiating table. In the UK there appears to be a total media blackout on the news of the release of the Rape Gang Inquiry, an independent parliamentary report into the organized sexual exploitation of children at the hands of foreigners in their lands. The report exposed systemic decades long failures by police and local authorities. The report contained harrowing testimonies indicating that up to 250,000 young girls were subjected to repeated gang rapes, trafficking and torture over several decades. Back at home in our backyard, KCCI TV and Des Moines interviewed the illegal alien turned public school administrator Ian Anderson, Andrew Roberts. You'll recall Roberts was the head of the largest school district in Iowa before his arrest last year and the revelation he had entered the country illegally along with other crimes. Roberts says he ran from Immigration and Customs Enforcement before his arrest because racism.

I guess the question that a lot of people have been asking, you know,

[Chris Danielson]

on a lot of our stories is

[Steve Dace]

why did you run? So there are a couple of thoughts, right? So what people need to understand is one, and I think for the first time shared publicly, folks got a sense of my background.

[Chris Danielson]

I'm a commissioned military officer.

[Steve Dace]

And so my immediate and instant reaction if someone puts their hand in a firearm who's not in a uniform, I certainly needed to someone who was also armed wanted to make sure that I made the right decision in a split second. London was not in an attempt to evade law enforcement. So immediately as I started to think

[Chris Danielson]

about the possibility of who they are.

[Steve Dace]

I've seen the hundreds and hundreds of videos around the country. What happens when someone who looks like me is confronted by law enforcement?

And Vitaly, you remember that woman outside the trial of Carmelo Anthony after the verdict was handed down? Apoplectic. Saying she doesn't know what to tell her sons anymore. Well, this guy has an answer.

[Chris Danielson]

You want us to do what? What do you want us to do at this point? What?

[Steve Dace]

I, I'm, I'm lost. Where I don't know what to do. I got five boys.

[Chris Danielson]

I don't know what.

[Steve Dace]

I ain't got nothing to tell them no more. You can't walk away no more.

[Chris Danielson]

What do you want us to do? Right.

[Steve Dace]

I, I also have five boys. She doesn't know what to do after

[Chris Danielson]

the Carmelo is here.

[Steve Dace]

Like what to tell her sons Guys, I'm gonna go ahead and try something

[Chris Danielson]

today.

[Steve Dace]

Boys, when you go out into school,

[Chris Danielson]

don't stab any other kids. You think you guys can do that? You feel good about that, Lee?

[Steve Dace]

You feel good about that, Ace? Yeah. Oh, here's Antrella.

This is Ace.

So is that a good commitment from everybody? We're not gonna stab any kids today. Hey, try that, lady. That might work.

And that's what happened while we were away.

I am, I am genuinely confused and I want to, I want to see if we can sort through something here. Next on the Steve Day show. And greetings. Happy Thursday. Welcome to the Steve Day show here live and on demand on Blaze tv, radio and podcast. I'm Steve Dase with Todderson and Aaron McIntyre. We're brought to you by our friends over at Fast Growing Trees. They've got the largest, most trusted online nursery in America. That's why they have over 2 million happy customers. And you can become one right now for the first time and get an additional 20% off. They're already low prices for spring planting season. Take an additional 20% off right now with using my code Dace. If it's your first purchase at fast growing trees.com, you might be thinking, hey, I don't, I don't have a green thumb. Well, they're trained plan experts. They're not just going to help you figure out what's good for your climate if you're going outdoors or for your environment if you're going indoors.

[Chris Danielson]

Right.

[Steve Dace]

They're going to also help you be trained on how to care for them every single step of the way. And they're alive and thrive. Guarantee makes it so that they promise that they're going to come to you fresh and ready to go. All right, fast growingtrees.com is where you want to go and then you'll save an extra 20 off your first purchase with the code dace@fast growingtrees.com Also, don't forget the merch is there now for America 250 over at the Blaze store. Shop.blaze media.com is where you can go for that. Take an additional 10 off with the code STEVE10. Get all of your limited edition America 250 merch and swag right now at shop.blaze media.com Use the code STEVE10 for 10% off at shop.blaze Media.com all right, coming up on the show today, we're going to find out what's trending in Gen Z. We're going to get very practical for theology Thursday because there's a book I want to introduce you guys to. And I know a lot of you are doing Bible study, really for the first time in your life, and there's a lot of renewed interest in the word of God. I think I saw there was like a 25 increase in Bible sales just last year alone. All right, so you might be thinking, though, what translations are? Should I use which ones are best? Why does it even matter? What do some terms mean? Where do I start? What's a good reading plan? What's some of the historical context here? Why is there 400 years between books at the end of the Old and the New Testament? All right, we're going to introduce you to a book that's just going to be remember those old Cliffs Notes when we were kids that kind of summarize, remember because, you know, before they started putting Shakespeare into modern English, and so you're struggling with some of this Middle English verbiage, and you go get the Cliffs Notes to help you kind of translate it or frankly, they kind of cheat, if we're being honest. But there was a real reason why those were done to help, you know, people to understand maybe some things that are from another time and another era and another culture. And someone I know has done this for the Bible, and it's literally called the Bible sidekick. And we're going to introduce you to this book coming up on Theology Thursday next hour. All right. But before we get there, oh, one more thing. Our friend Brianna Morello has a new story out. We're going to feature that next segment. I forgot that more legal immigra, legal immigration fraud. We're going to get to that with Brianna and share that story with you here at the bottom of the hour. But I want to begin with what I teased. And Aaron, I'm glad you put that clip of the vice president in the montage because I, you know, I am confused. I am confused. I have been following the discourse on our side over this memo of understanding this MOU with Iran, which is only 60 days. And I've been following this discourse on our side as closely as everything else I'm currently involved in will allow me and permit me to do. And I'm, I'm watching very, very smart people, including a lot of people that I know and or like, and a lot of people that I am absolutely aligned with and pushing back on the anti Semitism that's infesting our ranks at the moment. I truly don't understand their arguments. I and I and I mean, I really don't if the pushback on this deal is strictly that you want to get a head start on 2028 and you don't want JD to be the nominee because this would be more in his, hey, we use leverage, let's give peace a chance, you know, version of foreign policy. And your guy Marco Rubio is more of your traditional Reagan esque foreign policy guy. If you're trying to get a head start on that and, and this is really just a kind of a, a subversive proxy fight for the next primary cycle, I totally get what you're doing now. I, I still think your tactic is terrible and I'm going to issue a warning and it's a warning I'm going to guess probably won't be heard. How often are my warnings heard?

[Todd Erzin]

It seems not enough yet.

[Steve Dace]

How often do they come true?

[Todd Erzin]

Quite a bit.

[Steve Dace]

Quite a bit. I'm always right about the really bad stuff. I'm going to issue a warning. Aaron, I want you to mark the tape here. What is it? June 18, 2026. I want you to mark the tape because I'm going to issue a warning. If, if the reason that, if you make, if you, if you folks make it very plain that the reason you prefer Marco Rubio to JD Vance is over the relationship with Israel, you've, you're going to nuke Marco Rubio and frankly you're going to, you are going to weaponize. If you thought we had an anti Semitism problem on the right now, you're going to pick up an entire new layer of people who at this point either are quiet about it or disgusted about it, but don't want to fight about it. You're going to push him into that camp because you're essentially saying, well, we're running Rubio because he's Israel first. That's terrible branding. And you're going to, you're going to brand marker Rubio as Israel first before the, you know, the Megan Kelly's and Tucker's that you're concerned about. Before they even get a chance to do it, you will have already effectively done so. This is not JD's deal. He's not Commander in Chief. Really smart people are saying this that I know are too smart to, to understand that Trump is not just handing over his foreign policy to his millennial vp. And since I know they're, they're, they're, they're too smart. Fair that we, we know they're too smart to hope so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair, Aaron. They have to, they know this. So I have to Believe then this is some attempt to wink, wink, nod, nod passive aggressively, try to, you know, you're assuming that when Iran doesn't abide by the deal, and I'll get to that in a second because they won't. When Iran doesn't abide by the deal and the deal, say, blows up, you can then turn around and say CJD's wrong and that's why we need to run Rubio in 28. But again, understanding the only issue that you're making the case for Rubio over JD Is over Israel. The, the worst thing you could do if you're trying, if you're trying to simmer down anti Semitic tensions on our side, the worst messaging you could possibly have. And I'm saying this as someone, I've expended a little political capital against this anti Semitism in the first half of this year, have I not?

[Todd Erzin]

For sure.

[Steve Dace]

At least a little bit, maybe a significant little bit.

[Todd Erzin]

Fair. Absolutely.

[Steve Dace]

Yeah. And I'll continue to do so because it's wicked and it's evil and it's lowbrow and I, I repeat myself. So I'm saying this as a friend. It's a warning you probably won't hear, you won't want to listen to. And then when it, when it turns out to be true, you're going to wonder, why didn't anybody tell us when I tried? If you brand Rubio as the Israel first candidate or Ted Cruz or anybody else, they're toast. Sure, there's a 20, 25% of our base there, older evangelicals, that voting on a prophetic Israel is a major issue to them, but there's nowhere near a critical mass of voters to win the nomination with that. Furthermore, those voters are dying. And if you're worried about what the young people think of Israel already, why don't you send them the message that, hey, I know you can't afford a home and hey, I know you can't find a spouse. I, I know you can't. I know, I know. Daughter, I know you can't find a husband who was actually raised by a real man and knows how to become one son. I know you can't find a, a wife who hasn't had three abortions and 27 bedroom conquest or doesn't aspire to, but we need you to go ahead and die for Israel. Aaron, you're the closest to this age group. Why don't you just inform our audience how that's going to go over. Maybe go ahead.

Maybe think of the wettest fart and multiply it by 10.

Yeah, that's terrible branding. Absolutely terrible branding. Don't go down that road. It's a black hole. And all you're going to be is Tucker Carlson's RSS feed. Don't say I didn't warn you. Things are way more complicated than this. Which brings me to what I am confused about. Because if it's just a 2028 proxy war, I, I get those motivations. I get that done some of that stuff myself in the past. Now I happen to think this tactic is a terrible one. All right. Not to mention, let's figure out how Rubio will then run against the very foreign policy he enforced as Secretary of State while the current Commander in chief, who this was his foreign policy, is still in the White House. Can you guys figure out how we're going to thread that one? That needle? I mean, these are things that sound great when you're smart on Twitter, but when you start trying to game theory, these out steps 3, 4, 5 and 6 get really confusing.

[Todd Erzin]

Do they not remember on Monday when you brought this up and I tapped out immediately?

[Steve Dace]

Yes, because it just, I just don't.

[Todd Erzin]

Yeah, I'm tapping Trump.

[Steve Dace]

Trump will be anxious to endorse the guy who's running on his foreign policies retarded. He'll be very anxious to do that. I think we all know that's exactly how this will play.

[Todd Erzin]

Yes.

[Steve Dace]

No, it won't. But that notwithstanding, at least I don't. I think that's a bad tactic. But at least I would understand that if we're truly though make. If it's not about that and we're making a good faith argument, I really don't understand what it is the critics of this deal wanted. Instead, there are only two options on the table. We make a deal or we remove the regime. Is there another option on the table I am not aware of? Right. We, we typically in any war construct, you either negotiate or you. You demand unconditional surrender.

[Chris Danielson]

Right.

[Todd Erzin]

Is.

[Steve Dace]

Is there an in between? Am I unaware of what the in between there is?

[Todd Erzin]

Well, is anybody suggesting an in between they keep?

[Steve Dace]

Well, the problem is the critics of this deal. Again, several of our friends of mine, people I like, and they'll say things like, no, that's a false. It's a red herring that we want regime change. Well, what else do you want? Well, we want a better deal. Okay, what do you want us to do? Well, we're going to have to bomb more. What do you want us to bomb? Should we start hitting more of the Civil targets now, which of course will also lead to more collateral damage with civilians. Make the rebuild project for Whoever runs Iran 50 years from now even more expensive than it already currently is. But then, but here's the thing. Let's say we do that. We kill. We. We're down to the third string Iranian leadership at this point.

[Todd Erzin]

Right.

[Steve Dace]

We killed the first two strings. Something like 88 of them, I think are dead.

[Todd Erzin]

Right. Right.

[Steve Dace]

At least that we know of.

[Anastasia Dace]

Right.

[Steve Dace]

So we're down to the third string. Let's say we get down to the walk ons. Well, they'll never keep the deal. All right, well then why'd we continue then? So you agree that they're never going to keep a deal, but you want us to keep bombing them and therefore carpet bombing our own economy, Carpet bombing our own electoral prospects to get a better deal that you think they won't keep Anyway, Am I tracking so far? Am I making any of this up?

[Todd Erzin]

Stop me.

[Steve Dace]

Stop. I'm dead serious. Stop me if I'm being unfair because these are arguments being made by friends of mine and people I respect. So stop me if I'm being unfair.

[Todd Erzin]

No, that's why I asked rhetorically. Is anybody else suggesting a very clear alternative?

[Steve Dace]

Aaron, am I being unfair? I mean it. Tell me.

Listen, I too think the order of events looks very weak. I don't think the deal is great. So with that logic, following that logic, what's next?

All right, so let's say we keep going. We bomb some more. We do bomb more of the civilian infrastructure. We do put more pressure on them. We do blockade the straight more to bankrupt their economy. They then cut a deal that we like the terms. But then why would they keep those terms and not keep these? If we all agree that they're not going to See, I actually agree they won't keep the deal. I agree they won't.

[Todd Erzin]

So you're just. You're just saying they. Then they're on the same treadmill that correct the rest of us.

[Steve Dace]

So you're just suggesting we just do more laps. To do what? To punish ourselves? Because all we're going to do is just face higher inflation, higher prices, more electoral losses. Guys, I don't know if you realized maybe everybody forgot. It was just two years ago, about 1cm. A bullet missed Trump's brain. Or we're having tranny gay retard America. 250 in the white House with President. President Slepter. Way to the top. Everybody forget this. It was just not even 23 months ago. They did forget apparently they did. We are literally hanging on by a very thin thread right here. In order to try to get an act passed that would help Republicans win elections, Trump has to threaten the Republican Senate with, I'll give you your surveillance state if you give me this. That's where we are. That's where we are. We have to accept the reality. So then if Iran will never keep a deal, you can't on one hand say they'll never keep a deal and then say this deal sucks. Well, if they're never going to keep a deal, then what does matter whether this deal sucks or not, then? So then we just take on and accrue more political capital and risk by in order to get a different deal that we all agree, though, they're not going to keep. It makes no sense to me. So what you're really arguing then is you want regime change. There's not much left in America that you're going to get. If we put it on a referendum, you're going to get 80% of Americans to say, no, don't do that, or yes, do that. There's not much left. But I kind of think we're going to get 80% of Americans to say, no. We don't want to do Operation Enduring Persian Freedom. And if we put a national referendum over under 70% say no. Taking the over the under. Gentleman, make your bet.

[Todd Erzin]

Oh, America does not want that. No, it's not even close.

[Steve Dace]

So, so let's take on all that risk. Then you're. Then you're. Then you're the Republican Party after at the end of Iraq. Well, now it's just as in kill you in the 06 cycle, but you lost the 08 cycle over this, too. And that's how we got Barack Obama and the country may never recover. This is maybe how you get President Ocasio Cortez, President Buttigieg, ironically, President Obama

[Todd Erzin]

that actually had an Iran deal that you guys all hated, but you're actually going to bring to bear the exact same thing happening, if not worse, by going down this road.

[Steve Dace]

Correct. And by the way, that doesn't even guarantee that it'll be successful. Because what happens after the devastation and casualties of getting rid of the Iranian regime are accrued and accepted and taken on, what happens then next? So we have the Kurds, they want their own nation. The Israelis and the Sunni Arabs are agreed right now that they don't like Iran. They're probably not going to be agreed on what they want next. My guess is Israel will want, like the grandson of the Shah to return, or they're going to want some of the more secular modernist voices that were flooding the streets of Tehran to run the country. All those Sunni Arab states are not going to want that for sure. They don't want that. They don't want it known they're going to face their own Wahhabiist crazies. If it turns out, guys, we helped Israel, secular eyes are on. They're all, they're building. Erdogan's buildings are getting blown up next. All right, the House of Saad's palace is getting blown up next. So they don't want that. They're going to want an El Sisi, like General or an Erdoin. They may not even agree though, on who they're. Everybody might have their own lcc, Erdogan, because everybody's like, there's a lot of oil there. We kind of want to have our proxy there. They might, the Gulf states might not even agree amongst themselves who they want that person to be. There is still, by the way, a large Shiite Muslim population on the ground. I, I, this is a sectarian nightmare. You could argue toppling the regime will increase the risk of a spillover war because of everything I just said, and like I said yesterday, my son in law enlisted, willing to give his life for his country. We're proud of him for that. If he gave his life for his country because he was fighting Iran's attempt to threaten America with a nuclear weapon, we'd be very proud of him and sad and, and, and despondent at his loss. But we'd understand the sacrifice if it was because we're in year three, four, five of the occupation and he's Paul Blart, mall cop, parking lot attendant. We're gonna be pissed. And we're not gonna be the only ones. So no, my son in law and my son are not dying for your elite urination pissing match in Ukraine any more than they're dying to be a parking lot attendant in Tehran.

[Todd Erzin]

No.

[Steve Dace]

And I'm not alone. And so I'm confused what you want. Well, this deal sucks. Okay then. Well, I guess we'll try to get a better well, they won't keep a deal. Okay, the deal sucks. They won't. Am I wrong that these arguments are being made simultaneously?

[Todd Erzin]

Am I wrong?

[Steve Dace]

Someone tell me, am I wrong? No, the deal sucks. They won't keep a deal. Okay, what's then between they won't keep a deal, the deal sucks in regime. Oh, you I then you want, oh, that's a False choice.

[Todd Erzin]

You're trying to.

[Steve Dace]

Maybe I'm a. I've got a double digit IQ here. You guys are smart. I pay you guys to check me. Tell me now what is between. They won't keep a deal. And we're not arguing for regime change. Tell me what's between that. Then what is it? I'll wait. Go ahead.

I don't know if it's unique to America. History does not unfold like a movie.

Thank you.

It doesn't unfold like a movie. And I get people at best, what I can attribute this to, people do not like weakness. I already said I think this looks weak. But it's like I pointed out yesterday, this deal sucks. Losing the election, losing both houses of Congress sucks. Four plus dollar a gallon gasoline on Labor Day sucks. Not having regime change sucks. Having regime change sucks. We're living in an imperfect world. Believing that there are perfect or even ideal outcomes at every juncture of every scenario is just naive. And that's not to say, hey, this deal is great, or we did the right thing going in. No. Provoking this war was probably a bad idea. It's terrible. Not confronting this threat across the long span, also a terrible idea. It's just. This sucks. Sometimes you have situations in life that just suck.

Why can't we just. It's a memo. It's 60 days. We can get energy prices down. We can stabilize our political capital. We can ride this out to the midterms and when. When it's not going to be if I agree. You can't make a deal with Iran. When they violate it, guess what we'll do. Trump has already. Trump has already spanked Iran harder than any previous American president has. I love Ronald Reagan. Reagan was cutting arms deals with the Iranians to stop communists in Central America. Okay? That's what the whole Iran Contra thing was. Trump has hit. Who's hit Trump harder than who said Iran charter than Donald Trump has in the last two summers. Who's done it?

[Todd Erzin]

You're asking?

[Steve Dace]

Then why can't he do it a third time, a fourth time, a fifth time, a sixth, however many times it takes so that we're not stuck in a, in a, in a, in a sectarian quagmire. We don't know how to navigate that. We don't. We can't afford to navigate because here's the cat, here's the punchline I've not even gotten to yet. We have to win the war at home. We are perilously close to extinction for our way of life. Here we have to win the war at home. We cannot afford to expend any more political capital outside of our own borders without a much higher guarantee of a risk of a rate of return because we are literally one election cycle away now, every single time of fundamental things being gone in this country to never return, it's the plane is crashing. They say put your mask on first so you can help other people put theirs on. We have got to put our mask on here first. I'm sorry, Todd, you're going to say,

[Todd Erzin]

oh, no, no, no. I think you're asking a lot of political questions, strategic questions, but ultimately, isn't the issue just theological? Is it? I. And I'm not doubting anybody's faith in Jesus. Okay. But I don't think dispensationalists have the same dots to connect that you do on this. I think it's that simple.

[Steve Dace]

Oh, that they think they have a theological obligation to. Yes, I think even sacrifice their own country on behalf of Israel, essentially.

[Todd Erzin]

Well, they think that. They wouldn't call it sacrificing. They would say this is part of sacrificing their country. But sacrifice is required to ultimately honor God before man, and they think they are honoring God.

[Steve Dace]

I hope that's not it. I can't guarantee, though, that it's not, at least for some. I can't. I can't guarantee that. That's not because I politically. And you know what? I think it's a fair point that you raised there, because to me, all the political calculations go against what they're arguing, right? So they don't make any sense at all. This is my point politically, you know, and that is. That's. So that's why. So then what's Occam's razor leave you with then?

[Todd Erzin]

It made a kind of sense that the Israelites in Exodus were scared, you know, looking into who the enemies were in the land when they were told to take it, and they were terrified. The Anakin, these mighty warriors. God said, go take it. They said, we don't want to. They got 40 years in the desert for that. All right, apply that theological thinking again. I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong, but if that's your thinking, God

[Steve Dace]

will punish America if we don't help Israel get rid of Iran.

[Todd Erzin]

We've got to keep our foot on the gas because this is the same Israel as then those are the dots they're connecting.

[Steve Dace]

Well, I'm. I'm just not. America is only 250 years old. It's older than, than that eschatological theory. So no, I'm not, I'm not gonna gamble America and my homeland on that. I'm just, I'm not for that. I'm just, I'm just not. I'm just not. And if that's my tap out, then that's my tap out. You know, call me again, you know, when you need some more, you know, anti Semitic retards to pimp slap around. I'm in. I'll fight that one to the last possible, you know, era bot or, you know, double digit IQ loser. I'm in. Call me every time, anytime you need help with that. But if this is the next logical extension for that, then, then that's, this is my tap out. No, we, we have to win the war here at home. We. And there's not even a guarantee we can even go win a war over there. Anyway, more in a moment.

[Chris Danielson]

The steve day show.

[Steve Dace]

Brought to you by our friends over at Kexi. Because again, I give warnings and a lot of times they're not heated. And then after the fact, people are like, well, I wish somebody would have warned us. I warned you that deadline for Father's Day was coming up to get that box in time. I warned you it was on June 14th. And you know, I'm guessing at least one of you missed happens. So here's the thing. If you did miss it, they're still making great cookies at Kexi every single day. And now with the code dace, their normal box is every bit as great as their specialty special occasion boxes as well. And get 15% off their normal box right now with the code [e-mail] that's K E K S I K E k s I kexi.com use the code DACE did. 15% off. Some of the best cookies, maybe the best cookies you'll ever eat in your entire life. I'm saying some of the guess there's some ladies in the audience that would take great umbrage at this. They've got tried and true recipes themselves. And while we don't worship tradition here on this program, I do respect it. So in deference to your tradition, I'll say some of those cookies you'll ever try in your entire life and you want to try them again, get 15% off. Code [e-mail] that's code dace@k e k s I dot com. One more thing on this and then I want to get to Brianna's story. I, I think what the Vice president is laying out here is fairly straightforward and simple. Now let me say the part he can't say because I think, I think it's a context, if you understand it, that it makes it even simpler. We won't do a regime change war. They won't just up and surrender. We can't continue to afford to pay the cost of this. And the costs are only going to get increasingly expensive. We have killed a ton of their leadership. This is where I would say it's way different than anything Obama or anybody else has tried because Trump has taken his belt off and spanked them harshly. Harshly. They're down to third string leadership now. That depth chart has been decimated by casualty. So it's not that right away, it's not the same right away, it's not the same. It might not be as strong as you want, but thinking the same people that are telling me that, keep telling me that Iran won't keep the deal anyway. See, I agree that Iran won't keep the deal. That's why I don't have a problem with this because I agree there's no deal that they would make, they would keep. So we aren't gonna do a regime change. They aren't just gonna up and surrender without one of those. This is getting increasingly expensive. We're running out of civilian, we're running out of non civilian targets and civilian infrastructure to strike, to continue to up the ante. We can't afford this. We're taking on an incredible amount of political capital. And I think it's important to observe these things in this order. Okay. Because that one and two, the rest of these don't really make much of a difference. Right. If we were really willing to take on a regime change war, then the next four things wouldn't be considerations and things on the ground would be a lot different right now, Right?

[Todd Erzin]

Correct.

[Steve Dace]

So you have to start with those two things. And so I'm doing these things in order, therefore because of these six things. So let me give the context. The Vice President and the administration can't. So because of those six things are true. Anybody want to dispute that those six things I just said are true in that order? No, no, no. So then we all stipulate that because these six things are true, what the Vice President is saying next amid that backdrop and within that context, I think is dead on the money. Why don't we just see if we've decimated them enough to get them to behave at least a little bit better. They won't get anything unless they do. If they. And if they do, great. If they don't. The President has already demonstrated he is willing to punish bad behavior and has already done so more viciously and effectively than any American president has towards the Iranian regime in its entire history. We can always go back and do more of that if we have to, until they get the message. Tell me what is wrong with that. I'm genuinely asking because of. Because we've already stipulated that these six things are true. If the. If these six things are true, then this is actually the only option that we have. So then tell me what's wrong with that then. If those six things are true, what the administration is arguing, Tell me why it's wrong, then

[Todd Erzin]

the best I can do is what I already said. There's other views of eschatological orthodoxy in play here that have a different set of dots. They're connecting

[Steve Dace]

that. I'm sure that's part of it. I don't see that much from the commentary, the very negative commentary that I see. It is a scenario because Islam sucks. Islam controls Iran, which happens to be at a choke point of global trade and energy and the one commodity that basically the world runs on that just sucks. So unless there is going to be regime change, war, and everything that that entails, which these very same people would probably say they're against, if they're being honest, if there's not going to be a forcible, unilateral regime change, it was always going to be sucky. And I said something. I was maybe the most supportive because of Trump's track record on foreign policy, maybe the most supportive of what he was doing here, because I gave him a massive benefit of the doubt that I would have never probably given anybody else on this stage, but that's where we are. So maybe this is an excuse. Maybe this is an excuse to cudgel, and a cudgel for the guy who took a bullet for the country, who many of these people maybe you just dislike, have some form of just tds. I don't know. Latent tds, not on full display all the time. I don't know. I don't know what everybody's motivations are, but just think a few steps forward, down the road, that's what we tried to do on this show. That's why we didn't come in here every single morning. Battle Hymn of the Republic. I was humming it under my breath in the early days of March. That's why we didn't do that, because

I was against it before it started. Because I knew we were going to come to this. The place we're at right now is why I was against it before it started, because I knew we would come here. We don't have the resolve to finish the job and without that resolve, they, we can't get rid of the regime. So we were always going to be here. Always.

So let's see it play out.

You know, let me do this to be fair. Where did that go? Crud. We just type his name in. So one of my best friends on the earth, so I'm going to pick on him because I know he can take it. And him and I have argued plenty of times about stuff like this. So my buddy, my man Chip Roy, just Congressman Chip Roy just tweeted the following 20 minutes ago. The commander in chief gets deference to defend America in Iran or otherwise and we've given it. But you cannot trust Iran and deal or no deal, America must not financially prop up an evil terrorist. Terroristic state who wants to kill us with either public or private money. So let me ask, I'd have some, these are follow up questions I'd have from my own friend. So then if, if Iran obeys stipulations and the Saudis are willing to invest in the country. We don't permit the Saudis to invest. Okay, well then what would be the, what would be the impetus for Iran then to abide by any of the stipulations no matter how tough they are or how tough they aren't? See, there would be none. So we're back to where we were before then. Okay, regime change it is then. We're back to the same place every time. Am I wrong? Explain this to me.

[Todd Erzin]

I would have chips worry if Iran was being considered in a vacuum and Trump did not have a now two term, clear track record across the world, not just the Middle east, of why can't we all just be groovy together? That's what's going on. This is not uniquely about Iran or Islam. This is how Trump does deals and makes business. And again, I'm not saying it's good or I'm not saying it's bad at large or regarding Iran, but this is not out of left field. It's not coming out of nowhere. He believes in everybody, including the leader, Supreme Leader of North Korea. I'm Donald Trump. I think I'm a little better than the guy you dealt with before. I think together we can come together a better deal. He just wants to be groovy and have a big party just like he did in the White House lawn. Okay, this is not new. So it's getting make. A lot of people are making this uniquely out of ran like this is Trump doing something out of left field. This is the most Trumpian thing ever,

[Steve Dace]

especially the exertion of the leverage. He tariffed him first by killing much of their military and political infrastructure. He tariffed him first.

[Chris Danielson]

Right.

[Steve Dace]

He punished him first. It's classic stick in a carrot. I know we're used to a generation of evangelical carrot in a stick and the stick never shows up. We just do the carrot all the time. But this is classic American alpha male negotiating tactic. I spank you first, we cut a deal and we're friends later on.

[Todd Erzin]

And oh, by the way, a, it might not work.

[Steve Dace]

It may not work.

[Todd Erzin]

It probably won't, frankly. And, and B, yes, I'm the guy who said like weeks ago, this is starting to feel very covety. And he. Donald Trump, Yes. He, he obviously, I think, made some assumptions that were like back then, trusted the wrong people, thought too much of himself, and only I can solve. So that's all in there too. I get it. But it's not unique to this particular deal.

[Steve Dace]

Even if he had done none of that, I would argue we were still going to come here because there's another party. All right? They're. They get to play the game too. They're on scholarship too. They've got weapons too. Right? They have. They're going to fight back. Right. They're not just going to go away. So even if Trump had done none of that, we were still going to have some of this because the Iranians were never going away without a violent overthrow. They were never going away. Ok, so then if, then if we're not going to let our foreign partners give Iran financial incentives for obeying the agreement, because that's economically propping up a terrorist regime. It could certainly be defined as that. I'm not even going to argue that. It's. I'm not even going to argue that point. Then. So then the alternative is we just keep doing what we pay, 6, 7, 8, 9, $10 a gallon. We, we find out just how many swing districts in America really exist and lose everything for. Because they're never going. They're never going away. So we just keep doing this, right? To what, to what end? This is the part I don't understand. If you're for regime change, just say it because I don't understand the argument. I, I truly don't. And I think there's a lot of people that Want regime change. Just don't want to say it because they. Why? Because everything I said about what the American people think about it, they know that's true. So let's try kind of greasing the skids here. No, that deal won't work. No, that deal won't work. No, that deal won't work. Let's get closer and closer and closer so that we box ourselves into a corner and says, I guess Operation Persian Freedom is all. Enduring Persian Freedom is all that we have. Well, then I guess never having America again is all that we have. And President Ocasio Cortez and President Buttigieg running on the most unpopular war of all time, Vietnam times Iraq, with record high inflation and energy prices mixed in. I truly don't understand it. I mean, I really don't. I don't. And I'm trying. I spent more time last night reading stuff I don't agree with that. I have probably so far this entire year trying to figure out what am I missing. I truly, truly don't see it. I don't.

[Todd Erzin]

I mean, really, I.

[Steve Dace]

If they're never taking a deal, then you have to. You have to make them unconditionally surrender. Those are your only two options.

[Todd Erzin]

I wish Trump would have done something like this. Regarding Covid. Much, much earlier. Good, Good. Better. Otherwise, just get out. Enough. Instead of playing the game longer and longer and longer and thinking you can solve what couldn't be. Not only not be solved, but what you were. Death was destined and created to make you fail. Wash your hands of this, move on, and let's get on with the business. Every time you mention gas, a light bulb just goes on. It's like cannons at a soccer game when somebody scores a goal. Because here at home, that's what this is really all about. People are here. I'm not paying for this. And you can call that craving all you want to, but that's other people's dispensationalism. It's just a fact of the matter. And it carries with us an ability to render a lot of other things here domestically that matter.

[Steve Dace]

So I'm going to owe Brianna an apology. And Aaron, you're going to pay off for me because on Monday's montage, because tomorrow's Friday, we won't have it. Monday's montage. Could you please include her story in that montage? Please?

We'll just make that the whole montage perfect.

And then I'll. I'll send her. She didn't even know we were going to do this. Today. So I'll send her a text and apologize. And I. She did some great work on more legal immigration fraud we will highlight here on the show. And I did share it in my feed at Steve Day show on X if you guys want to go find it there. You know, it's. And this is, this is why we've had a lot of arguments and debates throughout the eons as believers. It's. It's very difficult to navigate a narrow road within a fallen world. It's very hard. And there's going to be moments. There's going to be moments when we're people who fundamentally agree on the most important things of eternity, are going to fundamentally disagree on what that means and how far we are permitted and should go to live that out here, this side of eternity. And that's why we've had reformations, and that's why we've had schisms. That's why after the Reformation, we had a group of people called the Anabaptists who said, you know, we're good. The only way to win this game is not to play. We're just dropping out of society. And they became your Amish, your men, your Mennonites, your Quakers. And they just said, you know what? We don't even think you can do that math. And so we're not even going to try. We're just going to go over here and live quietly and comfortably. And not comfortably because they live without technology and everything else, but we're going to live just quietly and humbly. We're going to Micah 6, 8 this thing until Jesus returns, because we have no way of knowing how to navigate the broader world from a narrow road. So we're just not even going to try it. So I'm. I'm not questioning anybody's conscience here or anybody's credibility here. Most of the people that I'm on the other side of this on, I have been fighting in the trenches with throughout the first half of this year thus far. But I'm just here to tell you that what you want us to do is a price the American people aren't willing to pay, and I would argue shouldn't be willing to pay. But before we even get to that argument, before we even get to the argument, should we be willing to pay it? They're not. So we don't get that argument. They're not. And so we have to ask ourselves then, is, is it worth risking everything we're fighting for domestically, here at home, for something that at best is a coin flip, a Planet away, half a planet away. And I, I just, I. That math doesn't check out. I'm a data guy. I don't project stuff. I do data. You know, we wrote fauci and bargain. More footnotes than pages. No projection anywhere. Not a single page of projection. Everything was just data, data, data, data over and over and over again. And I, I don't see that math checking out, like, on any level at all. So we're going to risk alienating 70, 75% of the country on the hopes that a coin flip will turn out. Now, there are moments that you existentially have to do that, like, say World War II, for example, right? That's what Churchill did. Right? How did he get report rewarded for that, by the way? What was that? How'd that work out for him in the end?

[Todd Erzin]

Voted out.

[Steve Dace]

They still voted him out. And that, that's what we call the greatest generation around here. What do you think the current godless generation might think, son, I don't have a house for you, I don't have a wife for you, but I'm gonna have to have you go fight next to the Israeli Defense Force in the hopes that toppling the Iranian regime will lead to something better. But we don't have a clue what that is. Go get him, kid. Fire up the Star Spangled Banner.

[Todd Erzin]

I mean, on America's 250th, I just.

[Steve Dace]

This one just seems obvious to me from a political calculation standpoint, which is why I'm even letting Todd entertain his Catholic anathema of dispensationalism. Because politically, the math doesn't even come close to working for really smart people to come.

[Todd Erzin]

How else do you explain it?

[Steve Dace]

So then how else would I explain it then? Yes. Hour two is next. All right, back here with hour two, live and on demand on the Steve Day Show. That would be yours truly with Todd erzin and Aaron McIntyre. Don't forget that. You can let us know what you think about what we think via the stevedace.com inbox. That's D E A C E steve dace.com if you want to email us, you can like us on Facebook. Me, we and Gab. Follow me at steveday show on X Instagram and TikTok. You can also subscribe to our Rumble channel at Steve Dace on Rumble. That's at Steve Dace on Rumble. And then finally, if you wouldn't mind, we would love it if you subscribe to the podcast. If you're one of those listeners, you're the biggest Part of our audience. Just hit subscribe or follow if you're on Apple itunes. And that way it's going to be right there in your podcast feed every time. And thank you for that. A lot of you have done that. Some of you, tens of thousands of you have left us five star reviews. We appreciate each and every one of those and would appreciate it if you would add yours today as well. This part of the show brought to you by our friends over at Masa. They're incredible chips that contain just three ingredients. Organic corn, sea salt. Organic corn, sea salt and tallow.

[Todd Erzin]

Right.

[Steve Dace]

Beef tallow. Thank you. Lost my place on the script. You gotta have this one memorized by now. Not just tallow, by the way, 100% grass fed. So no seed oils, no ingredients you can't pronounce. Just organic corn, sea salt, 100% grass fed beef tallow. They taste incredible. I would argue the Vandy Crisp, which are their version of potato chips, which are actually potato chips, are even better. The, the Vanity Crisp potato chips, man, are out of this world. All right? So if you're wondering, man, that's a small bag. You know why you won't, you won't eat as many because it's real food. So your, your body will, your, your belly's gonna get fuller faster. Now the reason why we eat so much of the other stuff is because it's not as real a food. So we keep eating it over and over again, right? So get 25 right now off your first order when you go to masachips.com m a s a masachips.com dace use the code dace to get that 25 off your first purchase at masachips.com using the code dace. Masa m a s a or vandychrisp.com code dace for 25 off your first order. All right, let's get to some theology Thursday and we're gonna get practical this week. You know, we've put you guys through a two year study of Romans. So I mean, that was pretty in depth. That could get pretty technical. I can get pretty in depth, pretty technical. But let's make sure we get practical every now and then because I know a lot of you are doing Bible studies for the first time. A lot of you have sent notes over the last couple of years, in particular about how events of recent vintage, like the murder of my dear friend Charlie, for example, drove you back to church, drove you back to the Bible. Last year we had about a 25, 30% uptick in Bible sales in America, the biggest we've had in many years. Right. And so what does it mean to study the Bible? What do some of these terms, what do they mean? I don't understand them. Why are there so many different versions of the Bible? Why is there like 400 years before, between the last book of the Old Testament and the New Testament? What are, what, what kind of, what do you mean? Major minor prophet? Does, you know, does that mean some of those prophets were good enough to get called up, play on the big show, and some of those prophets had to stay down on the farm learning their craft? What does that mean right there? There's a whole culture associated with the word of God that is embedded in, in the older eras of our nation, but has largely been lost in this one. And so I want to spend some time here today trying to recover as much of that as we can, making this as accessible and practical. After all, we serve a Lord who wanted to be accessible. He came to us in human form. He left paradise behind to suffer with and for us in the flesh. Right? And, and so he wants to be accessible. He was practical. You could touch the hem of his garment and receive a miracle.

[Anastasia Dace]

Right.

[Steve Dace]

So we want to do the best that we can to make his word the same. So Chris Danielson is here with us. It's good to see you, Chris. How are you, man?

[Chris Danielson]

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Steve.

[Steve Dace]

You bet. And going to introduce people to the book that you co authored called Bible Study Helps for Believers New and Old. So, Chris, tell us about you and where the idea for this book came from.

[Chris Danielson]

Well, I had been in broadcasting pretty much my whole life and got into Christian broadcasting after I left sports and ad sales and that type of thing behind and just wanted to serve Jesus. You know, you become soundly saved, you want to serve Jesus. And so I decided to go all in on Christian broadcasting. And in that world, I kept finding people were calling me an idiot for believing the Bible. People were saying that they can't understand it, it was just written by men. So I set off to make a documentary. The last time I was on your show, actually was about 11 years ago about the film Bible Idiots. And then about that same time, we came out with this book, Bible Sidekick. And Bible Sidekick is basically a collaboration of about 500 pages where we merge five or six seminary classes together and we put it in very common man language. In fact, my co author, Bill Ray, wanted to call it Study Helps for New Believers. And I'm like, bill, this is helping People of all walks, people who've been walking with Jesus for 30 years. And so we created a platform inside the book where anybody can get the information that they, that they want about all 66 books of the Bible, but also things like, you know, reading plans and study methods and why is it this way? Why is it that way? And inside each one, we tried to have, like, special features and key points and even talking about speed bumps where you might run into this problem or that problem. And so it really has. It's done a great thing as far as making the Bible alive for people. And that's why the name of the book is Bible Sidekick, because it's Sidekick, along with your daily study. And it's just been a treat to watch people find this book over the last 10 years because it's never been nationally published. The publisher who actually commissioned the manuscript went out of business just as we were finishing it. So it's one of those Jesus stories where you do your very best and you trust him for the results.

[Steve Dace]

So, by the way, I hope that means people, can they get this book if we're going to tell them about it, can they still get it? Chris?

[Chris Danielson]

They can get it, yes. In fact, what we've done is we've given it all to nonprofit called fresh road media. 100% of the margin goes to Fresh Road Media. Full disclosure. Fresh Road Media is my wife's nonprofit where she hosts her talk show called no Apology. And that's where my teaching platform is, all my messages. I'm a pastor in rural Iowa. I wanted to be a pastor and I wanted to be in Iowa. I went to seminary and I was too big of a radio smart outlet to be a pastor for about 25 years. So I just did radio instead. And so the last eight to 10 years, I've been really focusing on being a pastor. But my wife wanted to start a nonprofit ministry and go back and do a talk show again. She had been doing voice work for news organizations around the country, and AI came and took her job. So she said, my conviction is that I really want to keep doing what God's blessed me to do. So she started a ministry called FreshRoad Media. And if you go to freshroadmedia.com most of them are volunteers. Every now and then they get paid a little bit, depending on how God's blessing it. But it is not a ministry business. It's a true labor of love. So Bill Ray and I decided to give 100% of the proceeds of Bible Sidekick. If people want it, they can go to freshroadmedia.com a donation of any amount and we're going to send the book to you. I think they put a minimum of like $10 to cover expenses. But I've always found that somebody out there will, will, will get the book and give a 200 donation and somebody else might need the book for $10 and that's fine. We'll, we'll give it to them off the, the website of love.

[Steve Dace]

All right, so I know what some people are thinking. You told me this is going to be practical. Now you're telling me this book is 500 pages, right? So let's, let's, let's, let's make sure we address that. This is not like a concordance, which are very important by the way. And the writing is this small and so it might be 500 pages, but really the, the amount of words crammed into that makes it at least twice that long. It's all, it's, it's very accessible. It's big print. Okay. A lot of it is bullet pointed stuff to, to, for you to get the, you know, to get enough to get what you want to get out of it. So this is not going to be, you know, I don't have time for that. You're good. This is the way this is laid out. If there's a quick way to do 500, it is the Bible. You can't do it in five pages.

[Todd Erzin]

Okay.

[Steve Dace]

But if there was a quick way to make a book 500 pages, you guys did it. It's a very accessible, quick.

[Chris Danielson]

Well, I just think about how much this book would have helped you guys in your Roman study because you can open up Romans and you can see the key points. You can see the special features. Now you've just spent some time with the book. Steve, One of the things I was excited about coming on the show today is, you know, you texted me and you said you finished the book. What was your thoughts? What was your big takeaway? Because I'm really curious as to what you thought about it.

[Steve Dace]

I think the big takeaway I have is that I think this will help to provide a lot of missing context for our audience that is getting serious about a Bible study for the first time. That frankly, most evangelical churches just aren't interested in supplying America, which is one of the reasons why we're in this position. And so I've done, I've read lots of different versions of what you guys have done. This is the most practical one that I've read. I think you guys Understood your audience, right? You used to host a show like you said, called Bible Idiots, right? So we're, we are so on one end you're trying to get, you know, entry level believers or for, or new believers or folks who have not been in a church that walked them through a real study for the first time. But you don't take the, you don't make, you don't make the false choice that, that means though, that you just stay there, that you, you know, and, but, but before I study trigonometry, I've got to understand algebra, right? Before I understand algebra, I got to know my times tables. Right. You know, and so I, I think that this is the most practical one that I've read and I think, thank you. It's the kind of one where the information. And I'm, I think I'm a fairly well studied guy, obviously. And I got, I got enough out of it that I, I thought it helped me. And I think, and I think what it will really do is, is spur the audience to then because I get asked all the time, what do I read? And I'm like, the choices are so voluminous, it's almost hard to recommend. Right. You know, I mean, so the, something like this is kind of a gateway into knowing then what you're passionate about, what you think the Lord is calling you to dig deeper on and where to go study further. Because this is going to give you enough information to be dangerous about pretty much anything you'd ever want to study.

[Chris Danielson]

Well, even when I'm doing a sermon, I will open it up to the passage that I'm, that I'm trying to exegete and I'll, I'll read some stuff and it'll be like, wow, that's kind of, hey, I wrote that like 13 years ago, you know, and so if you're leading a Bible study or you just want to go deeper, the book is an incredible asset. It's a resource and it's called Bible Study Sidekick. And you can get [e-mail] for a donation of any amount to help my wife's nonprofit as we work together to try to share the gospel worldwide. And I guess the big takeaway for me is as people get into the scriptures, bigger and better, what happens is the Spirit speaks to them in a way that is really, really cool. What happens is they understand that they aren't much, that it's all about him. And we have a society of Christianity out there that's trying to make it all about us. And our feelings. And when we realize that we have a wrath due us and that Jesus took that wrath upon himself at the cross and we get that as a free gift, well, that's an incredible eternity changing and life changing thing. And some of us just want to know more about it. And so it was intentionally written. Bible Sidekicks was intentionally written with the way it's laid out and everything to be for anybody fifth to seventh grade or better depending on their reading comprehension. And you know, some seventh graders are at fifth grade level. But you know what I'm saying.

[Steve Dace]

Yeah, let's take, let's talk about some of the, the associated history with the scriptures just to give people an idea of how this book could be helpful to them and why this information is important to know. I think that what has helped prepare me to do the show I do and to fulfill the calling that God has put on my life is not just how much I've studied the Scriptures, but how much I've studied the historical context around them. Who were the people being talked about and talked to at the time? Right. You know, so like for example, like just like last night in our small group, we were, we were talking about how Jude, you know, is so adamant about contending for the faith and the calling out and confronting a false teaching and how we do so little of that today. And I said, well, we have this thing in my line of work, we call them discernment ministries and they do some do very good work at times, but they're largely online. And what they largely do though is you have to remember when Jude talks about confronting false teachers, some of the arguments that we have today, like Arminianism had not been invented yet. Okay? Nobody knew who a Marcion was, nobody knew who an Arius was. They certainly were never, they certainly were hundreds of years away from knowing who a Pelagius was. Right? They didn't know whether their rapture was pre, mid or post trib. They, they didn't know what a Puritan was. Right. So right when, when Jude is talking about his audience, his Christian audience in the first century about false teaching, he's talking about the closed handed, closed fisted fundamentals that despite all of our disagreements for 2000 years, Christians of orthodoxy still believe the same things about those fundamentals that they do 2,000 years later. When John, he, John actually introduces us to the term Antichrist in one of his epistles at the end of the Bible, who does he call an Antichrist? Those who deny the incarnation that God became a man. That's who he calls an antichrist. Right. So the fun, the fundamental things that Christians largely agree on are actually the things that Jude is saying go to war over and you know, you know, change who you fellowship with over that, throw people out of the church over those things. These, these handfuls of closed fisted things. A lot of the things that we argue about, you see these discernment ministries argue about are actually open handed things that. I'm not saying they're not important, but that's not what Jude was talking about. He lived in a Jude have not known what a cessationist was or a continuous. He would have not known. Right. And so a lot of what we are arguing about in our modern era are those tertiary, still important, but tertiary theological assumptions, not the very fine fundamentals of the faith. You have any thoughts on that?

[Chris Danielson]

And when I was on the air, you know, every day we had Christian walks from all different denominations, all different types. And so what I found is that you had to kind of separate things and get down to the narrow path that Jesus talks about. You. You said something really cool at the start of the segment. You said the major prophets and minor prophets. And you know, the reality is.

[Steve Dace]

Yeah, explain to our audience why people are called that. What does that mean? This Nahum could never hit the devil's curveball, so he had to stay down in AAA for a little longer. I mean, what's that mean?

[Chris Danielson]

Right. It's about the number of words used. The major prophets allowed more words to be published than the minor prophets. They had less words, less work, but not less in significance, less in volume. That's all. The difference between major and minor is just like context. You find out the context of the Bible, it actually simplifies. You will find that the Bible is very easy. It's a very smooth book. We have made it difficult, we have tried to put this theology behind it that makes it difficult to understand by using larger words. When you reduce it down to something that everybody can understand, it makes a huge difference. Like for example, the best gospel presentation you can possibly give is the blind guy in John chapter nine. To summarize, it's basically once I was blind, now I'm not. And when you can start functioning in that level, then God will add all these other things onto you. And when he gives you that spirit of wanting to pursue deeper education, you will start figuring out things. And some of the guys you mentioned in your run up to my part to talk, I don't even recognize some of those guys. I've never taken the time because I'M so enamored with what God has in his word. Context is a very key thing. Like for example, go back 2000 years and think about this statement I'm about to make now. Think about how you would process this through the same interpretation of translations that we do with the Bible. The phrase he pulled up to the pump and filled up, well, they could figure out what the word pull means. Up is just a weird word in the English language. What does pump mean? They might not process that we're actually filling a transportational vehicle with the fuel it takes to run. And we do the same thing when we use like the word hate. When God hated Esau and loved Jacob. Or in Luke 14, when Jesus says, if you don't hate all these people in your family, which seems to contradict, you know, love thy neighbor, honor your father and mother and all those things. When you understand the concept of the word translated into English, hate, yeah, it can mean that, but it also means a couple other things like putting into second place, always lesser than. And so those are the kind of things that when you really let the Bible come alive, when you reduce it down to the basic language being spoken of to that culture and then apply it to our culture, it's simple and it makes sense and it creates joy because we know through what the scriptures teach we don't deserve salvation. And yet it's offered to us as a free gift because of the work of Jesus Christ on the cross. And then those of us who find that free gift out of good old fashioned gratitude, we want to learn more, we want to know more, we want to spend time with them. And then we open our Bibles and it's the as thy verily doeth thy saith. And we get a little frustrated. And so that's what Bible Sidekick was designed to do. Same with the film Bible idiots was to bring it all down to the common man. Because that's who Jesus is calling is us as the, the common people.

[Steve Dace]

I've used a term a few times in this conversation, the this or refer to it that, the so called silent years. Why is there 400 years? What was going on? What does it mean that God was silent? Right, Because I think this is some very important context that that gives you even a greater appreciation for what was happening in within the Jewish world at the time that Christ emerges as Messiah. Right. So your book does a nice job of giving people enough understanding of what all that means. For example, the tradition that we know as Hanukkah comes out at this time period for Example. Right. So why is it important to know that and explain to people what some of this stuff means and the context that that helps them to better get when the Gospels begin in Matthew?

[Chris Danielson]

Well, I think the key thing is that what we find is that the whole Scriptures, all of the scriptures, have a harmony to them. And the Old Testament points to the Messiah, the New Testament reveals the Messiah. We also see the Jews reject the Messiah, and then we see the Gentiles being grafted in, and then we get caught up in prophecy and all these other things. But when you understand that God has a perfect plan, you see his order, you see his greatness and what you will do immediately when you see the greatness of God, you immediately realize, who am I? You know, who am I that I should even be a part of this? Many days I wake up just thanking God. I'm lucky to be in the room. That's why my teaching platform is called Salvaged by God. God plucked me off the salvage pile, and every day he uses me. It's a miracle. But in the Scriptures, getting back to the kind of the question, the way I heard it was, you see a harmony, you see that 400 years being actually something that God is using to bring the Messiah to fruition. It's time for him to come through the virgin birth. And then while he is saying, hey, your Messiah's here, the people reject him. And that is key as how God uses the chosen people through all of human history. And so like Augustine says, the New Testament lies hidden in the Old, and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New. And so we have a lot of churches, I think, in air say we're just New Testament Christians. We're going to stay in The New Testament. 90% of the time. It's like, well, you're missing out on so much value that shows the character of God. And at the end of the day, if you're walking by faith, it's really about God's character. What do you really think of God? How big is your God?

[Steve Dace]

Antiochus Epiphanes is a key figure during this period of time. Explain to our audience, because you guys talk about him in your book as well. This is a key moment. Why in prophetic history, even though it's not in the Bible, but it takes place between. Well, Todd would argue, yes, it's in the Bible because he's Catholic. All right, so it's not in our Bible as evangelicals. Right. Even though it has great prophetic significance and it does set the stage again for what is happening. In, in Israel, in Judea at the time of Christ.

[Chris Danielson]

Well, you're going to need to give me a little bit more information on what you're referring to directly. Again, the book was written 11 years.

[Steve Dace]

I mean, I'm talking about Antiochus Epiphany slaughtering the pig on the altar to Zeus in the temple.

[Chris Danielson]

Abomination of desolation.

[Steve Dace]

Yes, yes.

[Chris Danielson]

And so how that plays into, into End Times prophecy. We all look at it like, you know, the temple is going to be rebuilt, they're going to start doing sacrifice systems again and then eventually, you know, that will, that will, that will take place again. I'm not, I'm not sure exactly where you want me to go on that particular teaching, per se.

[Steve Dace]

I didn't mean. I'm sorry, Chris. I'm not talking eschatologically, but historically.

[Chris Danielson]

Okay, all right.

[Steve Dace]

That, who came to power as a result of the Maccabee revolution, the Maccabee revolt that took place here. Who came to power how that led to ancient Rome eventually becoming the power in the region.

[Chris Danielson]

Right.

[Steve Dace]

The so called Hasmonean dynasty. And this creates the political parties known as the Pharisees and the Sadducees. That, that essentially is the governing body under Roman jurisdictional authority. But this is the governing body that, that Christ has to navigate when God comes as a man. That, that these events, understanding these events and knowing what they mean and where they come from can have great help. You have a greater historical understanding of what you're reading. When we get to the, the start of the New Testament and when you

[Chris Danielson]

get your mind around some of those concepts, you see that those concepts still apply today. They still apply to the same things that we're dealing with now. We have modern day Pharisees and Sadducees. We have governmental issues that are not that uncommon from the Roman. We don't line up 100%, but it's really about walking out your faith and some of this knowledge stuff. You know, I always call you my smarter little brother. I mean, I was kind of, you know, thinking you might be bringing some stuff that's way beyond my Bible idiot self, where, you know, my job with the book was to really bring a lot of it down to common man language. Bill Ray is the scholar behind it. He's more on your level, I'm more on everybody else's level. But what you see throughout is a harmony and a consistency where Jesus came at the perfect appointed time. And when you go backwards and you see all of those things, the 400 years, you see, you Know the different things that happened all the way back to the line of David, all the way back to the promises of Abraham and Genesis, chapter 12. You see how it all lines up in a way where there's no way this could be just something created by man. There had to be a divine creator who not only spoke the word, but. But then sustain the word.

[Steve Dace]

How? When? If someone were to ask you, how do we know we can. You just said sustain it. How would we know that we could trust this? What would you say?

[Chris Danielson]

Well, I mean, again, if I'm just. I'm just a basic evidence guy, and so one of the things that really turned my head about 25 years ago was when I looked at what original manuscripts were available. You know, the number two book in all of the world is Homer's Iliad that has about 600 original manuscripts, roughly. Steve, knowing your level of scholarship, you could probably tell me the exact number, but the New Testament is between 7,000 and 20,000, depending on who you listen to. A much different maintaining of the Scriptures when you deal with people from historical critical versus grammatical historical. The historical critical people want to say that all prophecy was just nothing but history written as prophecy with a guess on the end. And then the Dead Sea Scrolls kind of blew that up. And so the trust in the Word of God goes back to the fact that it could not be anything other than what it claims to be 1500 times in the Scriptures, it claims to be the Word of God. Now, either it is what it claims to be, or it's the most deceptive book ever written. And so you either got to run from it or you've got to understand that it is your final authority. And for the authentic Christian, it needs to be sufficient enough. We don't need to add anything to it, because God kind of closed the deal. Well, it was canonized by this person and that person. And you've got the Septuagint, and you've got 40 different authors from different walks of life. And so it's just written by man. How can you possibly comprehend that man could have such harmony with things like. I mean, they're not talking about medicine or construction principles. They're talking about things like heaven and hell and angels and demons, and it's got a harmony all throughout it. And so at the end of the day, our God tells us one pretty cool thing. He said, faith is what pleases me. And so, oh, I'm just gonna have blind faith and whatever. No, he has laid out enough in natural revelation, and he's laid out enough in his scriptures that when you take Genesis all the way through Revelation, you see this, I don't know what to call it. You see a collaboration that could not be humanly created. It has to be divinely created. That's why it's called the Holy Book.

[Steve Dace]

That's a good answer. Give us the website one more time, Chris, where people can get a copy of this if they want a real practical tool.

[Chris Danielson]

Yeah. Freshroadmedia.com freshroadmedia.com My wife is the President, CEO of, of this organization. Her talk show no Apology with Emily is a weekly download. And that's where my teaching platform salvaged by God is located. And it's my sermons from Sunday just put out to the world. And what I do is I plant myself behind the pulpit and exegete the text. And this little non profit ministry is a donation of any amount. I think they put a minimum of $10 to cover their expenses. But yeah, buy one, buy two, buy, buy five books. Do whatever you can do. This book will help people with their walk with Christ. That's why I get excited about it and why we never let it die, even though it was originally published 10 years ago.

[Steve Dace]

Good to see you, brother. Thank you.

[Chris Danielson]

Yeah, you too, man. Thank you for the opportunity.

[Steve Dace]

You bet. Take care. God bless.

[Chris Danielson]

You too.

[Steve Dace]

All right, so Fresh Road Media is the website you want to go to. Name of the book is Bible Sidekick. Gentlemen, you have any thoughts? Well, I saw you waving your arms here when I was talking about the Maccabee revolts. Not in the Bible.

[Todd Erzin]

I'll tell you what I do. It's like, hey, when it comes to like tobit and like fish paste in the eyes, I'm like, I understand why they're tapping out on that one. Every time I read Maccabees, I'm thinking like, the Protestants want this in their Bible so badly because it's awesome. Yeah, I just, I appreciate the honesty. This book's 500 pages, you said, Steve. Yeah, that's just an honest pastor telling you there's a lot of.

[Steve Dace]

But I know it sounds weird. It's a very fast 500 pages.

[Todd Erzin]

I believe it. But there's, that's just. And a lot of Protestants online, will they have a line. Just the plain reading of Scripture. This is an honest passage, says you need help. We all need help. A book, a really good pastor, obviously, because it's not all self explanatory, so amen to a good pastor who saw a need with his flock and filled it.

[Steve Dace]

Amen. And I've always said, and it bears repeating as well, that theology, the study of God, is only beneficial in as much as it helps you to love God with your mind. And I think books like this can have the effect of helping you love God with your mind. Because we can make a science out of studying God, studying the scripture, that's all well and good, but if the end result is not loving the Lord your God with your mind, including your heart and your soul, but with your mind, it's just another science. It's just another field of study. And so I pray that people who read this will have that effect in their lives.

Amen. Let's go inside Gen Z. When we come back,

[Chris Danielson]

The steve day show.

[Steve Dace]

All right, we're running, running into Father's Day here. So you're running out of time. Coming up this weekend, if you're looking for the right last minute gift, Chef IQ is where you want to go. But don't just take my word for it when they sent me one of these. Since Aaron, I mean, he is the, he's the carnivore maestro here on the show. He's constantly working his smoker at home. So, Aaron, I gave this too hickey to you to try it out. It's been about a year or so. What's the verdict?

The verdict is two thumbs up. A plus plus, plus. I cannot emphasize, especially if you've got a dad. And what dad doesn't like to grill? Like, can you tell me what dad, what dude doesn't like to go out and grill? Okay, so we're really, really casting a broad net here. If you've got a dad in your life that likes to grill and increasing numbers of men who like to smoke meats like I do, I can't think of a better gift for Father's Day. This is incredible. It saved my rear end a few weeks ago when I had to smoke three pork butts at the same time. And my smoker was on the fritz because not only did it tell me the internal temperature, it told me the ambient temperature as well so I could adjust my grill to compensate. It's really cool. And at the it's just so convenient as well. Anytime during the smoke, just open up the app. It's connected to wi Fi can check on how things are doing and and adjust on the fly. It's a really, really cool product.

So no more overcooked steaks, no more dry chicken. Try to get rest. How about restaurant level results right there at home? You just heard that from Aaron, so go to Chef IQ Right. Now use the promo code Steve. You're gonna get a 40. That's a big number. 40% off site wide. 40% off site [e-mail] with the promo code Steve. Chefiq.com promo code Steve for 40% off site [e-mail] promo code Steve. And we welcome in my oldest daughter because my. My wife's not here. So if I said our oldest daughter, people would look at Todd and Aaron as if. What did you guys have to do with it? Nothing. So it's my oldest daughter, Anastasia. Good to see you, sweetie. How are you?

[Anastasia Dace]

Good. Appreciate the clarification on that. Thank you. Do sometimes say our. Do you know that?

[Steve Dace]

Do I still do that?

[Anastasia Dace]

Yes.

[Steve Dace]

Okay.

[Anastasia Dace]

There are occasionally. And it's weird because, I mean, I

[Steve Dace]

didn't do it myself either, but it's weird when it's just the two of them here.

Yep.

It's very weird.

[Anastasia Dace]

I understand.

[Chris Danielson]

Yep.

[Anastasia Dace]

Yep. I know how the process works.

[Steve Dace]

Yeah, you do. I mean, you're on round two.

[Anastasia Dace]

Well, what can I say?

[Steve Dace]

Yeah.

[Anastasia Dace]

Anyways.

[Steve Dace]

And it's awkward.

[Anastasia Dace]

And let's move on.

[Steve Dace]

Yes.

[Anastasia Dace]

Shall we?

[Steve Dace]

You can tell that she has my DNA. Indeed. She will not let the point go. If you try to make it awkward, she will make it more so all the way to the very end. Yes.

[Todd Erzin]

That's the name of the segment. It's awkward.

[Steve Dace]

Yes. I have no idea where you got such an impulse or you watch that get modeled to you in your own home growing up.

[Anastasia Dace]

Yeah, it's the two sips of shamrock shakes in me over the years. Yes.

[Steve Dace]

Still riding that one, are we?

[Anastasia Dace]

Yeah.

[Todd Erzin]

So did you see the memes?

[Anastasia Dace]

We showed him those Sunday at family dinner, actually. I said, do you see the meme of us, like, crying, washing your car, and you're just sipping a shamrock shake by the garage Facts.

[Steve Dace]

Hurry up, guys. I'll save some for you when you're done. Right. All right, let's go inside Gen Z. Which. And this is the last time we're going to get a chance to do this with you till later in the year because we're gone the. During your weekend in July on a little vacation. And then you've got maternity leave coming up.

[Anastasia Dace]

I do.

[Steve Dace]

So we're not going to do this again with you until we're into the fall, your favorite time of year. Not sure we got that either.

[Anastasia Dace]

Yes.

[Steve Dace]

All right, so let's. Let's find out what's going on with our kids and grandkids.

[Anastasia Dace]

So I picked something this week that I kind of think encompasses the overall theme theme of this year with Gen Z and faith, which is that I think it's becoming less taboo for people that are my age to talk about their faith and talk about God, but it's in how they do so that I think we are struggling with and how to get that message across. And so the clip that I picked is the Jonas Brothers. Everybody knows the Jonas Brothers. They came out with a podcast in the last couple months or so where they let fans call in and they answer their questions, they give them advice. It's actually pretty funny, and it's fun watching their dynamic. Well, Nick Jonas recently came out with a song with Brandon Lake, arguably one of the top Christian artists right now of my generation. Like, everybody whose Gen Z likes Brandon Lake knows Brandon Lake songs. And it's called the Author. Well, somebody called in to ask him about this.

[Steve Dace]

Why do I. Why do I. Everybody prepare yourselves to be extremely disappointed.

[Anastasia Dace]

And called to ask him basically about why he was convicted to write it. Kind of the essence of the song, etc. So that's the clip I brought with you today, is his answer to that question.

[Nick Jonas]

That's an example of two people from different genres coming together to find in which ways they're similar and where they overlap. And, you know, going back to our journey with faith and religion in the earlier days of our lives. The church was a big part of our life, but we had to find our own journey. I assume that by asking this question, you're someone of faith or have a religious background.

[Steve Dace]

I am, yes.

[Todd Erzin]

Yeah.

[Steve Dace]

And so I've really admired you coming out and talking about it, because I know it's kind of not what's cool in this world right now.

[Nick Jonas]

Actually, I beg to differ. I think that more and more people are getting in touch with their faith because of how messed up things around the world. And becoming a father really shaped things for me and made me want to dig deep and talk about the central theme of that song, which is that there is a plan for your life, and you don't have to be a person that believes in Jesus and God to understand that there's some plan in place. And Brandon and I spent a lot of time talking about that, and I came in with this title and was really inspired to say, how can I put this feeling that I know my life is in good hands into a song? And it's the beautiful thing about collaboration is that two very different walks of life, different experiences, we can come together to do something that has real impact and is based in both biblical Truth, but also just the main truth, which is love. We find a way to love each other and meet each other with compassion and empathy. I think Bieber has done a great job of that in his life, both publicly and personally. He always meets people with empathy and love. And the fact that he's doing it on a big stage like that is great and inspiring a lot of people. It wasn't the thing that had me going into the session back in December and writing that song, but it certainly continues this conversation around love, empathy, compassion in a time when I think we need it most.

[Anastasia Dace]

And so I was so.

[Steve Dace]

It was exactly what I thought I was going to.

[Anastasia Dace]

So I was listening to this on my nightly, encouraging this baby to get out of me walk, as I call it. I listen to this podcast, Get Out. Yes. I listen to the Jonas Brothers growing up. And so I find this.

[Steve Dace]

Have you tried. Olivia, come forth. Have you tried that?

[Anastasia Dace]

Yes. Autumn does that for me. Yes. And as I was listening to this, it kind of caught me that I think that this is where a lot of people my age are at, which is, you'll notice his, you know, ability to understand that there is something bigger than himself at play. That, and I would feel like in even just the last few years, it was like, there's just no God. There's no God. Well, now I think that people my age are recognizing there is something bigger than themselves, but I think that the problem is that they can't get over the idol of themselves, which is the fact that, you know, it's kind of like that tweet that I actually just tweeted today, which is that, you know, there's really no leader for all. You can't be for everything. And I think that is the idol that a lot of Gen zers hold on to is this idol of we have to love and accept everything. Everything has to be good. We have to be, you know, understanding of everything. Rather than that, there's one central message, which is that you are not God ever, ever in any situation. You're not nicer than God, you're not more loving than God. And so I thought you guys could speak to today, which is this overall in 2026, Gen Z dilemma of faith, which is, I know there's something bigger than me. I want to believe it, but I can't get past whatever the idol is in my life. And half the time I would say with Gen Z, the idol is themselves.

[Steve Dace]

Well, the good news for Gen Z is you just described literally every generation who's ever lived that's never not been the case. I mean, since Genesis chapter three, that's never not been the case. What you just described. Described. If there's, if the only thing I would say is different, I mean, this is not really. This is very similar to the, the millennials. What was there? What was you guys tagline? Aaron? Spiritual, not religious. Wasn't that your generation?

[Chris Danielson]

Like that?

[Steve Dace]

Yeah, this is very similar to the millennial. Well, we're spiritual and not religious. And we heard that in the, in the early 2000s and 2010s, as they were coming of age and they, they attempted this thing called the emergent Church. That sounded very much like what you just heard from Nick Jonas there. And the reason why you're looking at me like, what is the emergent Church? Because it had, in the end, that stuff. That stuff sounds great, but it can never generate a critical, massive spiritual audience because it's counterintuitive to doing so. Because if it, if it, if you're just going to take the Bible and reduce it into the same hippie, dippy, do gooderism that the culture offers, then why would I need the Bible? I get that from everywhere else. It's why those churches, once they go down that road, you see their populations greatly diminish. It's why those denominations, why they go down that road. You see them essentially have themselves, if not become extinct, because you're not offering anything that is distinct from what I can get everywhere else.

[Chris Danielson]

Right.

[Steve Dace]

And so, and then there's this idea, too, that, well, if we put any expectations on people. You were too young to know about this story. There was a, There was a young man that ran for governor in our state several years ago, and he was going to try to be the first millennial governor. He was very young, successful businessman, and they brought him to introduce me because they wanted to see if, you know, I might give him some favorable coverage and get to know him. And he was supposedly an evangelical, but he. I found out he went to a very soft church in another part of the state and kind of quizzed him on his beliefs. And I could tell right then. I could tell within 10 minutes, this guy, it's. There's, there's nothing really there. Okay. And frankly, he, Back then, he would have sounded a lot like how Rob sand in our state trying to hijack Christianity sounds right now. So after I, But I did agree to put him on, just see how he would do. I asked him questions. He did not perform well. He tried to make it look like he was like, really based and really right wing, when you could tell his answers were kind of rehearsed and he wasn't feeling it. A funny thing happened, though. Shortly after I had him on, I got three emails from people who were his friends. And they were all, they all said, hey, we're very liberal, we're very secular, we're friends with this guy. And, you know, we're just appalled at some of the things he said on your show because I'm just going to tell you that's not who this guy is. And like, they're sending me proof that they know him. There's like pictures and associations and they know like a bunch of stuff about him, you know, So I just kept all that to myself because I knew that his candidacy would go nowhere because he would end up. He would end up. He'd be, he'd have no base. He would, he would not be based enough for our people to rally around him, but he would still hold. Have too much of a religious expectation that the liberal left would, would. Would make him their guy. There was. He was in a no man's land. So I knew he would flame out. So six months go or so go by, they bring him back to me and as a last gasp effort to see if they can salvage his campaign because it's completely imploded. And I listen. So I asked him, I said, why do you think your campaign hasn't taken off? And everything he said was exactly wrong. And we were out to dinner at. We're out to lunch at a deli. And I, I took my pen, I took my pen out of my bag and I grabbed his napkin, I took his napkin from me. I said, see, this is your problem, okay? You think the line is like, way. Oh, you think my, you think the world hates me because I draw the line. And I went to the very beginning of the napkin and I drew very stark black, dark colors with the ink, right? And so you think the world hates me because this is where. How we're not just where I draw the line, but how I draw it. And then I, then I had the napkin all spread out. So I went to the end of the napkin, like the corner of the napkin, and I drew like little flowers, which, you know, weren't very good because I can't draw, all right? So I draw like little flowers and stuff and try to make it as faint and pretty as I could. And I said, you think the world will love you because you draw the line way over here, way after I draw the line. And you do it lightly and Faintly, in fact, you almost feel apologetic that you had to draw the line at all. And what you're finding out is the minute you draw, draw the line, it doesn't matter where you drew the line, doesn't matter how you drew the line. The world hates you. They just hate the line. Doesn't matter who the drawer is, doesn't matter how it was drawn, when it was drawn, in what color or manner it was drawn. They don't want any lines, particularly when it comes to my wallet and my zipper. That's the mistake that they're making right there. And they're, they are because, and, and they are fashioning a God unto themselves. They are conforming God to the image that they want, what will fit into what their expectations are, what will not threaten any of their pursuits or any of their morals whatsoever. But the, the irony of that is while they think that that'll be a widely accepted message, it won't be. Because this world doesn't want to have a God, period. Except, except its own. And at some point, Nick Jonas is going to have to determine, well, am I going to give you your God or my God? Are you going to ask something of me that I don't want to give you? And the minute he says no, he's just going to be just the same fundamentalist that, that they think you and I are. And so the entire thing is a false choice.

[Todd Erzin]

Yeah, we just, we get a road to nowhere because he says something, a huge oh thing. You know, there's the biblical truth, but then there's the main truth. Those were his actual words, which is love. It's like, okay, I probably know where this is going, but let's hear. He actually said biblical truth, so maybe he just could have said that better or something like that. And then he goes to talk about that. That's something that is not exclusive to Christianity. And all religions can understand, which offends

[Steve Dace]

all religions because they think they're all the unique understanding.

[Todd Erzin]

And he kept talking it in the context he actually used the word feeling. Love is actually the cross, and that cross had a person who died on it and his name is Jesus. So he's wrong on so many levels. It's not just a feeling. It's not something all religions connect with in the same way or can understand. They actually define those things very differently. And if you're, if you're saying the main thing is love, how, where is your line in the sand against that different really differentiates you in any fundamental way from any other.

[Steve Dace]

Why don't I get to love your

[Todd Erzin]

children or the Hallmark card or love is love or any of that. So it's just useless.

[Steve Dace]

I'm a minor attracted person. I want to love your children. What standard would we say you can't do that?

[Todd Erzin]

At best, that was just useless.

[Steve Dace]

Agreed.

Again, this, what, what they think they're talking about is the main thing, but really what they're talking about is tone. There are times to yell in confrontation. There are times when yelling does no work. A couple years ago, went for a walk with Ben. We were coming back from the walk. I thought he was right behind me going up the steps to our front door. I turned around to usher him in through the door. He was all the way out to the street. I yelled at Ben. I yelled at him, ben, stop. No, come back on Monday. Ben has been doing a great, has been, has been doing a great job on his big boy bike. And we all went out for a walk together and Ben doing a great job, not getting too far ahead of us, making sure, within line of sight, stopping every single street. We went down the hill to our house about a half a mile, little between quarter and a half a mile. And he's just ripping down the hill. Okay, he knows how to use his brakes, but just ripping down the hill. He's out of running distance, out of shouting distance. And the kid who had been doing a really good job stopping at all the streets, way down at the bottom of the hill, too far away to catch up with, too far away to yell at, and he went across the street without stopping. Praise the Lord. There was no traffic coming, but there was no point in yelling there. He was too far gone. What they're talking about is a tone. Now, in both those scenarios, Benjamin got correction, he got consequences. The consequences of this most latest one he didn't fully understand until yesterday when they tried to go out for a walk and the bike was put up. But in both scenarios, yelling was effective in one, because the danger was immediate, the chances of saving him was immediate. In the other is too far gone. Just pray and hope that there was no traffic coming. So that's kind of what this they think they're talking about. The main thing here, they think they're talking about doctrine. What they're really talking about is tone and confrontation. And is there any way to do this Jesus thing without confronting on any level? That's what that conversation was really about.

The video was everything I feared, but it was a conversation that I think the audience even it here. So good job, sweetie. Thank you all right, she's going to stick around. Give us three non political questions in the overtime. For the rest of you, we're going to be back tomorrow. Until then, go hard. Romans 8:28.