Virginia and SPLC Hate You| 4/23/26

Summary

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Steve Deace Show – Episode Summary

Episode: "Virginia and SPLC Hate You | 4/23/26"
Date: April 24, 2026
Host: Steve Dace (Blaze Podcast Network)
Guests: Molly Hemingway (The Federalist)
Co-host: Todd Erzin
Main Topics: Conservative movement energy, Southern Poverty Law Center indictment, Virginia's political shift and referendum, the judicial legacy of Justice Alito, and an exploration of just war theory as applied to the current U.S.-Iran conflict.

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Episode Overview

This episode takes a multifaceted look at the state of conservative America through the lens of recent events: a vibrant Faith Forward Pastor Summit in Texas, a critical special referendum in Virginia that Steve argues marks a fundamental shift in the political compact, and the unmasking of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) as a fraudulent, weaponized institution. The discussion features an extended interview with Molly Hemingway on her new book about Justice Samuel Alito, exploring the existential fight for America's constitutional legacy. In the second hour, the show shifts to a deep dive into just war theory, applying its principles to assess U.S. actions against Iran in the ongoing Operation Epic Fury.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter & Faith Forward Summit [00:23-08:32]

• Buc-ee’s Excursion: Steve and Todd tease a trip to the famous Texas gas station/food stop, highlighting Americana.
• Faith Forward Pastor Summit:
  • Record crowd and enthusiasm.
  • TPUSA’s continued growth despite detractors (“...as the continued reports of their demise continue to be exaggerated.” [01:39])
• Glenn Beck's Museum & Relics:
  • Steve marvels at a first-edition Declaration of Independence with Jefferson's handwritten edits, using it as a lesson about America's founding values—especially the passage on slavery that South Carolina prevented from inclusion.
  • Todd, as a Catholic, enjoys handling holy relics.
  • Humorous anecdote: A woman prays for Steve’s tinnitus; he loses his hearing aid but later recovers it—“I got the miracle. Nevertheless, I did. A miracle did happen. I did get a miracle. Return of my hearing. My hearing aid was found.” [08:13]

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2. The State of the Conservative Movement & the Will to Win [08:32-20:51]

• Core Theme:
  • "You cannot beat an opponent that wants to beat you harder than you want to beat them." [11:00, 14:54]
• Christian Limiting Principles:
  • Discusses Just War Theory limitations and how Christians’ moral restraint means the opposition often fights harder.
  • Steve argues conservatives aren’t even close to the "gray area" of moral toughness—they’re far behind.
• Left-Wing Determination & Methods:
  • Cites the SPLC’s evolution from civil rights legend to Marxist tool for shunning enemies, money-laundering, and bank fraud—culminating in a federal indictment.
  • Emphasizes the left’s willingness to burn down institutions for social and political objectives:
    “They create social contagions... Postmodernism was... the Navy Seals of this. We go in and just spread moral relativism wherever we can...” [18:00]

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3. SPLC Indictment & What It Means [14:54-20:51]

• Historical Overview:
  • The SPLC once had real civil rights credibility.
• Recent Developments:
  • Now serves to put conservatives on “do not call, do not book, do not publish” lists—a “form of shunning.”
  • Indictment reveals evidence of “a complete and total Marxist sham.”
  • Steve: “They want you to know what they’re doing. They’re proud of it. Prideful, you might even say.” [25:49]
• Notable Quote:
  • “You cannot beat an opponent who wants to beat you more than you want to beat them." [20:51]

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4. Virginia Referendum & GOP Apathy [20:51-29:51]

• Personal Account:
  • Steve describes being in Virginia for five days before the referendum; only heard pro-referendum ads from the left (Obama voices), nothing substantial from the GOP.
  • Highlights the GOP’s misplaced priorities (“...way more interested in having John Cornyn win a Senate primary in Texas than it was losing the state of Virginia for literally forever.” [25:21])
• Breakdown of Political Compact:
  • Decries the weaponization of redistricting; GOP content to lose foundational fights.
  • "We're not in these United States in the spirit of the term anymore." [26:49]
• Judicial Tactics:
  • Acknowledges the shift to outright preference for 'friendly' judges given the civil war of values.

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5. Interview: Molly Hemingway on Justice Alito & the Supreme Court [31:34-42:48]

Author: "Alito: The Justice who Reshaped the Supreme Court and Restored the Constitution"

• On SCOTUS Succession:
  • Both agree it will be almost impossible to replace Thomas and Alito with equally strong justices.
• John Roberts Evaluated:
  • Hemingway: “He’s not been as strong as people had hoped… but he’s not the worst.”
• Recent Conservative Appointees:
  • Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Barrett are competent but not consistently strong; Gorsuch’s “Bostock” opinion cited as a betrayal.
• Inside Dobbs Leak:
  • Most dramatic revelation:
    • After Dobbs leak, justices faced death threats, wore bulletproof vests, and were moved to secure locations.
    • Liberal justices intentionally slow-walked their dissent to maximize intimidation on conservative colleagues.
    • “They were trying to get one of the justices to peel away through these intimidation tactics…” [38:22]
    • Echoes Steve’s earlier theme: The left “plays for keeps.”
• Roberts Leak Theory:
  • Steve posits Roberts may have been the Dobbs leaker; Molly says most insiders suspect a clerk, some point to a Roberts staffer.
• Alito vs. Thomas:
  • Uses sports metaphor—“Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig” for Thomas and Alito.
  • Alito is the “quieter guy… almost so good you just take it for granted.” [35:09]
• Memorable Quote:
  • Hemingway: “You can be both principled and effective... Those things are not in contradiction to each other…” [37:24]

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6. Back to “Will to Win” & Judicial Trojan Horses [42:49-46:58]

• Todd’s Observation:
  • Suggests Hemingway’s book is a Trojan horse to talk about the fall of the Republic—“If you don’t have Samuel Alitos anywhere… it just, as regular citizens, people with that level, you know, he’s not looking for the glory. He’s not wearing a cape. He’s doing his duty. We don’t have that anymore.” [46:10]
• Marxist Tactics:
  • Left’s ethic is “social murder”—destabilizing and justifying violence for political ends.
• Republican Succession:
  • Steve raises the question if Alito/Thomas should preemptively retire while they can be replaced; Hemingway counters replacements wouldn’t be of equal caliber even if the votes are there.

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7. The Changing Face of America [48:48-49:49]

• Texas & Demographics:
  • Steve and Todd note visible demographic changes in Dallas (referencing viral social media posts), further reinforcing the theme of rapid societal transformation.

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8. Segment: Just War Theory and Iran – Deep Dive [52:05-95:04]

Applying Christian Ethical Principles to Operation Epic Fury (U.S. vs. Iran)

Background:

• Operation Midnight Hammer/Epic Fury: Lethal U.S. actions against Iranian military targets.
• Public war fatigue post-Iraq/Afghanistan.
• Iranian nuclear threat—real or perceived, U.S. policy unchanged through multiple administrations.

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Step-by-Step Walkthrough of Just War Criteria

1. Just Cause [67:14-75:27]

• Definition: Defense against aggression, protection of innocents, restoration of justice.
• Is it satisfied?
  • Both agree: Yes. Iran’s Islamic regime is an explicit, ongoing existential threat, not just to Israel but the West.
  • Steve: “If we can’t answer that, we don’t need to go further. That’s why it’s first in order.” [69:14]

2. Legitimate Authority [79:58-83:02]

• Definition: Only a duly recognized government can declare war.
• Satisfied?
  • Both: Yes.
  • Steve notes even Jefferson launched undeclared wars, the Founders themselves saw defense actions as executive purview.

3. Right Intention [84:08-86:17]

• Definition: War seeks peace, not vengeance or gain.
• Satisfied?
  • Yes. Trump’s intent is peace and deterrence, not conquest or profit.
  • Todd: “He genuinely seems to be sinking, seeking new kinds of peace…”

4. Last Resort [86:17-87:34]

• Definition: All diplomatic options exhausted.
• Satisfied?
  • Yes. Multiple rounds of diplomacy/pay-offs to Iran proved fruitless over four administrations.

5. Reasonable Hope of Success [88:03-93:36]

• Definition: Must be a plausible path to peace/win.
• Open Question:
  • Both struggle—America lacks resolve for a true regime change occupation, risks another Iraq quagmire or worse.
  • Steve: “We don’t have the resolve to do it. We’re not ready to do what’s necessary…”

6. Proportionality [93:41-94:55]

• Definition: Is projected destruction justified by the cause.
• Complex:
  • Modern U.S. arms make even minimal use potentially devastating, but so far proportional given context (October 7th, Iranian brutality).
  • Todd: “So far, yes...”

Final Verdict [95:02]

• Both say “yes” to just war—so far.
• Steve: “The last two [criteria] could change my answer in a matter of days or weeks…”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "You cannot beat an opponent who wants to beat you more than you want to beat them." — Steve Dace [multiple times, 11:00, 14:54, 20:51]
• "They want you to know what they’re doing. They’re proud of it. Prideful, you might even say." — Steve Dace on Virginia Dems [25:49]
• “You can be both principled and you can be effective. Those things are not in contradiction to each other.” — Molly Hemingway [37:24]
• On the Dobbs leak: “The liberal justices… intentionally slow walked their dissent so that that campaign of attacking these justices could have the longest chance of succeeding.” — Molly Hemingway [38:22]
• “If we can’t answer that, we don’t need to go further. That’s why it’s first in order.” — Steve Dace, on just cause [69:14]
• Todd, on Iran and evil: "It’s not evil because they have nuclear weapons. We have nuclear weapons." [77:27]
• On "right intention": “…Trump’s record seeking new kinds of peace that heretofore others haven’t even tried…” — Todd Erzin [85:00]
• On proportionality: “We’re not firing cannonballs anymore. We’re not sending legions of soldiers in with swords…” — Steve [94:17]
• On successors for Thomas/Alito: “Even if we have the votes right now... that’s an argument... I should have thought of.” — Steve Dace [47:00]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:39] – Faith Forward Pastor Summit recap
• [02:54] – Glenn Beck’s Museum/Declaration of Independence
• [07:09] – Hearing aid “miracle” story
• [11:00/14:54/20:51] – “Can’t beat an opponent…” core thesis
• [14:54] – SPLC indictment breakdown
• [20:51] – Virginia referendum story/“the new social compact is broken”
• [25:21] – GOP priorities misplaced (Cornyn vs. Virginia)
• [31:34] – Interview: Molly Hemingway
• [38:04] – Dobbs leak inside story
• [46:10] – The ‘Samuel Alito Problem’ and loss of duty
• [52:05] – Iran and Just War Theory introduction
• [67:14] – Just War Theory: Step-by-step analysis
• [69:14] – Just cause established
• [79:58] – Legitimate authority and historical context
• [84:08] – Trump’s intentions
• [86:17] – Last resort
• [88:03] – Reasonable hope of success—the Iraq/Afghan "sunk cost" dilemma
• [93:41] – Proportionality in modern warfare
• [95:02] – Summary judgments and caveats

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Episode Tone & Style

The episode is candid, snarky, and deeply analytical, characteristic of Steve Dace’s principled-yet-combative conservatism. The banter is often tongue-in-cheek, but the frequent use of historical and religious references gives gravitas to the show’s themes of decline, resolve, and the moral complexity facing America.

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Summary for the Uninitiated

If you missed this episode, you’d come away understanding:

• The conservative movement is running uphill against leftwing institutions willing to go to any length, while Republicans are lackluster about existential fights.
• The SPLC has allegedly morphed into an activist fraud, now facing federal prosecution.
• Virginia—once a battleground—is now slipping left with little effective GOP resistance, eroding the “social compact.”
• Molly Hemingway’s Alito biography reveals how even the Supreme Court isn’t immune to hardball leftist tactics; principled, effective leadership is fading.
• The U.S.’s ongoing confrontation with Iran is justified under four of six key just war theory tests, but faces a legitimacy gap on whether it will truly succeed or remain proportional given America’s eroded resolve and war fatigue.

The episode is loaded with detailed conservative analysis, history, humor, and a call for principled–not passive–engagement with a culture and opposition that "wants to beat you more than you want to beat them."

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Transcript

[Molly Hemingway]

Foreign.

[Steve Dace]

There it is. I gotta get used to doing that. How about the fact I've been doing this professionally for 25 years and you're the one that has to look at me and say, hey, man, turn your mic on.

[Todd Erzin]

Well, I couldn't hear you, so that was a. That was a tip.

[Steve Dace]

We're off to a great start. And greetings. We are live here in Dallas, Todd Erzin and I. And you may be wondering where Aaron is. And Aaron had a personal matter that he needed to take care of at home and unfortunately could not join us for this trip. He is. He is duly missed, of course, and he'll be with us again when we get back on Monday. But Todd Erzin is here with me. He was able to accompany me down to Dallas. We are still doing the Buc ee's trip that we previewed for all of you. We're still going to do the Buc ee's thing. We're going there after we get done with today's show. And I've got some meetings and some other stuff to do. And then I might go get that brisket sandwich@buc EE's I had last year that blew my mind.

[Todd Erzin]

I'm in.

[Steve Dace]

And introduce you to the finer side of Americana and you'll pass on to glory. It's called Buc EE's. It's an amazing, amazing place. So we're going to that later today. We spent the day yesterday at the Faith Forward Pastor Summit out in Grapevine. A tremendous crowd, the largest pastor summit that TPUSA has put on yet as the continued reports of their demise continue to be exaggerated. Mr. Erzin, they continue to grow very much so exaggerated. And the energy level was high. And I mean, it's rare that I pity an audience when I go out to speak. But when you have Seth Gruber and John Amanchukwu come out and speak right before me. So you do. Seth Gruber, John Amanchukwu and me. They did us all back to back. I went out there yesterday morning and I looked at those. I could see they were spent. They were done. Okay. But I still showed no mercy nevertheless, as you well know.

[Todd Erzin]

But that's what they want. You know, there's that old. There's that meme of like a very old Asian guy and he's like getting kicked in the jimmy over and over again. That's what these people come here for. They want it.

[Steve Dace]

Yes. So Faith Forward. But first, faith painful. That's how it started. Yes. We had a fantastic dinner last night just across the street here at Glenn Beck's American Journey Museum. And that was a ton of fun. Got to tour the vault over there. I've not seen it. I've not been here since that was completed. And so we got to tour the vault and you saw some of the. You were very excited. As a Catholic, you got to handle and touch all kinds of relics. That was really the most exciting part of the trip for you, right?

[Todd Erzin]

It was. I get to take a picture of the holy relics, send to my wife of her favorite movie, A Princess Bride.

[Steve Dace]

Yes. And you see the copy, the first edition copy of the Declaration of Independence. I posted that on X last night, in fact. And you see the handwritten edits there from Thomas Jefferson. And yes, if you're watching on Blaze TV or YouTube later, I am totally pandering by wearing a Burt orange shirt here in the state of Texas. This is. I'm not. I am not above pandering whatsoever. I am totally pandering by doing so. But you see the first edition, it's my favorite artifact that they have in the whole thing. It's a first edition of the Declaration of Independence with handwritten notes in the margins by Thomas Jefferson. One of the notes where he originally says, we hold these truths to be sacred, and then changes it. He writes it again, let's make it self evident. And then all the various markers against King George III for exporting the savagery of slavery to the colonies, and even refers to those that they taken as slaves. He even refers to them as, quote, men in that draft declaration. I think a lot of people probably don't know that it was one state because they had made the agreement at the convention that, you know, the whole Ben Franklin. We either hang together or hang separately. The whole thing had to be unanimous. Right. Every state had to agree to the Declaration because this is a declaration of war. That's what the Declaration of Independence was, a declaration of war. It was a declaration of succession, really. That's. That's really what it was. And so they all had to agree. And South Carolina would not agree to the slavery language. Interestingly enough, all the other Southern colonies did. But South Carolina would not agree to the slavery language, and that's why that was ultimately taken out. So a fun time. But the. The highlight of that event is a gal comes over, introduces herself to us at our table, because one of the guys we were sitting with used to work here for the Blaze, good friend of mine, Billy Hallowell, was sitting with us at our table, and she knew him, and she's From South Africa. And she's a big pray for healing kind of person, right? And she just starts telling us stories about doing this, like, all over the world. And, you know, sometimes, you know, God doesn't answer. Sometimes she claims she's seen some amazing things, you know, and so, I mean, I don't know what to think. You know, she seemed a lovely gal, right? She seemed nice. She had an absolutely adorable dog that just sat on her lap the entire time as she was standing. In fact, did not move. I mean, that dog was stoic. I had to check a few times to see if that dog was still among us. I mean, that dog did not. A cute little poodle, perfectly groomed, sweet lady. We heard some amazing stories, right? And then she mentions praying for somebody in Mozambique is where it was for their tinnitus in their ear, you know, And I'm like, you know what? I've had tinnitus in my ear here for three years thanks to Mr. Nefarious. It happened on the Saturday that we were doing the massive event and screening of Nefarious at Jack Hibbs Church out there at Calvary Chapel in July of 23, happened that morning. And I remember I looked at my wife when I lost most of my hearing in my right ear. And I said, now I know for sure this is going to be a big event today, okay? Nefarious has to take his pound of flesh out of me before we go scream the movie again. And sure enough, it ended up being a huge event. So I'm like, well, you know what I mean? I've got tinnitus in my right ear, right? So she comes over, tries praying for me. I think it was three different times, right? I will say I felt a little. I've gotten about 40% of the hearing back in my right ear. But when we're at Crowded functions a lot, I bring a hearing aid with me because ambient noise in the other ear makes it really hard for me to hear at all because the ambient noise clogs up the good ear. And then I need to boost the other earth. So I brought my hearing aid with me, and I always bring it on trips and then forget to bring it to events. And my wife and Amy yells at me all the time that I forget to why we spend money for this thing if you never bring it. And she's right, of course, right? So I happen to remember to bring it to this event, right? And my hearing is actually doing great, but she's like, take it out, take it out. Okay. All right. So have her Pray for me a few times. The first time, I felt, you know, maybe a little improvement. But again, with the ambient noise, I didn't know what to think. Nothing really happened the second time, the third time, you know, and that was kind of it. We just went and did the rest of our evening. Right.

[Todd Erzin]

You know, until.

[Steve Dace]

Until. So we get back to our hotel room last night, and I realized that I have lost my hearing aid. And there's a joke there, okay? I took my hearing aid out so that I could get a. I could get my hearing back and. And ended up just losing. I did not get my hearing back and lost my hearing aid as well. And I'm gonna. I had friends of mine text to me about this last night. I'm sorry, we shouldn't be laughing, but we are laughing. I was laughing. I mean, I was laughing. All right. You were laughing.

[Todd Erzin]

I'm writing a movie script about the entire incident.

[Steve Dace]

What was the name of the script? Do you remember that time that woman with the dog that didn't move tried to pray for you?

[Todd Erzin]

A very long title.

[Steve Dace]

Yes. And then you lost your hearing aid. That's the title of the.

[Todd Erzin]

It's a banger.

[Steve Dace]

Yes.

[Todd Erzin]

It's a total banger.

[Steve Dace]

So I, you know, I went and tried to retrace my steps, you know, did I pull it out? Did it fall out of my pocket? On a lark, I texted JP Decker, who runs the museum just across the street from where we are right here today, and he goes, you're not going to believe this, but your hearing aid, Somebody found it and they turned it in.

[Todd Erzin]

You are here.

[Steve Dace]

I got a miracle. I got the miracle. Nevertheless, I did. A miracle did happen. I did get a miracle. Return of my hearing. My hearing aid was found. All right, so it's not necessarily the. The miracle, the hearing miracle that we were hoping for in that moment, but one happened nevertheless.

[Todd Erzin]

God was moving nonetheless.

[Steve Dace]

That thing's only about this big. How someone found that needle in a haystack with all those people, I have no idea. But it's a miracle. It literally is. So my hearing aid was found. Right. Coming up on today's show, Molly Hemingway is going to join us from the Federalist about her new book on justice, Samuel Alito and his legacy, the guy that essentially helped with Clarence Thomas to save what's left of the Constitution. But how much longer is that legacy gonna last? We'll get into that with Molly and more and then next hour. We've teased this now for the last couple of weeks. We are gonna spend all next hour on Theology Thursday, walking through just war theory and then applying it to the current war in Iran. Right. And so that's what's coming up on today's show. First, though, we are brought to you by our friends over at Preborn. Please don't forget to continue to be generous. You folks have been so generous with this partnership. You've helped them to save tens of thousands of babies over the last few years that we've been aligned here at the blaze with preborn. And now we need to keep saving tens of thousands more because while it's great and we celebrate all these brick and mortar Planned parenthoods across or Planned butcherhoods across the country, closing, some of it's a win and then some of it is because now every single mailbox in America is a potential abortuary. Right? And so we are literally now doing it's a game of one on one. Now we're doing soul to soul combat with the spirit of the age, with pregnant women to help inspire them to not commit murder against their own offspring and then maybe, maybe irrevocably distance themselves and harden their hearts toward God. And that's where preborn comes in. They don't just, by the way, say thank you for choosing life after you've seen this ultrasound that only cost 28 bucks so you could save a life for as little as 28 bucks today. They don't just walk away after that Life is saved, by the way. They're there to help that new family now get started off on the right foot. All right? They've got things like diapers and car seats, counseling, all of it free of charge, but none of it's free. And that's where you and I come in. Right. So keep it going with the five star charity tax deductible donations today to Preborn.com Steve, again, that's Preborn. All right. To to begin today's show, there's a couple of topics that, that I think we I want to spend a good deal of time addressing because in many respects they're the same topic. And I want to address these topics with this thesis. You cannot beat an opponent that wants to beat you harder than you want to beat them. Allow me to repeat that. You cannot beat an opponent that wants to beat you harder than you want to beat them. Now we're going to walk through just war theory next hour, right?

[Todd Erzin]

Yeah.

[Steve Dace]

So that of course implies from the very beginning, if not explicitly says, there are limitations for Christians, for those of us right whose kingdom is not of this world who are in this world, but not of it. Right. Those of us who ultimately this world is not our home, might we represent another kingdom? Right. There are limitations about how far and how much we should vie for the things of this world or the events of this world. And, and, and the things that this world holds importance. There are limitations upon us. Right.

[Todd Erzin]

Absolutely. Without question.

[Steve Dace]

So. So we have to acknowledge that Christianity on one end blows all limiting principles away in terms of, you conquer the last enemy, death, you can never get too far away from God that he won't take you back. Great Jeremy Camp song from back in the day, by the way. If you've never heard that, you should go look that up. Right. Those are. So in one way, Christianity blows up a lot of the limiting principles of this world and other religious systems. That doesn't mean, though it doesn't have its own limiting principles, in exchange for that freedom we're given, in exchange for that eternal life we're given. Limitations are now asked of us in terms of how we live out this new life we have in Christ. So we begin from a premise of, to some degree, since our opponents represent the kingdoms of this world, like when Jesus says to Pilate, I could call down an entire legion of angels in a Thanos snap and make you forget you ever lived. Basically, that's what he says to him. I mean, this whole thing, you don't understand. You think you're in charge here, almost like Bane. You think you're in charge. That's kind of what Christ says to Pilate. You're not the one in charge. I mean, with a wink and a nod, I call down a legion of angels and I mean, they're going to turn this place into glass. This is all happening because there's a larger drama playing out than whatever your relationship is to Rome, whatever your concern is about a Passover uprising, whatever your reputation is, whatever your political calculations are, a much larger drama is playing out here than any of those things that you're concerned about. So we have limiting principles. There are things we cannot do. Our opponents, in one respect, therefore, they're always going to want to beat us more than we're going to want to beat them. They're always going to be willing to go to places that we can't go in order to win. I would argue, though, and I have been for the last several years, we are nowhere near that line. Like, we're not even approaching it. Like, it's not in sight. We're nowhere near that line. Which is why now I do think you cannot beat an opponent that wants to beat you more than you want to beat them. I do think that that applies because we're not doing even the things the word of God allows us to do. We're not even doing them. We're not even approaching the things that we're not really sure if we can do or not. Is that a gray area or not? We don't really know. And sometimes when. When Christian rulers and. And Christian peoples have come into those gray areas, some cool things have happened, and sometimes some uncool things have happened. We're not even close to that.

[Todd Erzin]

That was a big topic yesterday, by the way, at the pastor summit.

[Steve Dace]

Yes.

[Todd Erzin]

Why is that happening? Or why is it not happening?

[Steve Dace]

Correct. And so I do think we should go with the. We should go with the theme. You can't beat an opponent who wants to beat you more than you want to beat them. Because we're so far behind even approaching this moral dilemma. We're nowhere near it. We're. We're at the. We're at the. We're at the Book of Job where God says, gird your loins. We're at the final chapter of Nehemiah where he's pulling beards and smacking people around because they let Sandball and Tobiah back into the back end to desecrate the temple they didn't want. They didn't want rebuilt. We're at that part of the story right now. And that brings me to what happened just the other day on Tuesday in Virginia with the referendum. And then what happened? I think it was on Friday, maybe it was Monday. FBI Director Cash Patel announcing the indictments against the Southern Poverty Law center, which, by the way, I say this, I've been a critic of Cash on the show, I think for valid reasons. Otherwise I wouldn't have been critical. But this is what I voted for right now. Now. Now you have my attention. You have my attention now, especially if this is maybe the first step in a process. You have my. This is not an insignificant piece of the. Of the other team's puzzle whatsoever. This is a. This is a key player here, and it gets into how they operate on their side. There was a time, if you're the generation ahead of Todd and I, a boomer, that you can remember that the brand name of the Southern Poverty Law center meant something. It was a relic of the civil rights era, and it had earned a lot of its relic status because of the work it had done during that period of time. In no way, shape or form what it has become in this modern era. Does it represent that at all? Like, not at all. But this is important to note because you need to understand the psyche of your enemy. And it's not so we can emulate it. It's so that we cannot allow. Leftism, Marxism, spirit of the ageism. However, the spirit of the age manifests whatever isms it is. It's manifesting within our. In, in any culture at any given time is deconstructive in nature. It seeks to corrupt. Like when Todd says the lie is the point, the corruption is the point. When our, when our friend and colleague Oron McIntyre talks about it hollowing out your religion and wearing it like a skin suit. That's a phenomenal line by. That's what we're talking about too here. It, it is a corrupting agent. It's a contagion. They create social contagions where out of nowhere now 25 of kids think that they're trans when no one even knew what that was five years ago. Right? Social contagions like, well why do you hate your grandmother now? Remember all that from a few years ago. Postmodernism was, was kind of the Navy Seals of this. We go in and just spread moral relativism wherever we can to disarm and deconstruct the existing moral system, which is Christianity, in order to then introduce a new one, which is the phase we're entering into now, particularly with the heightened awareness and infiltration of Islam. And so they're not embarrassed in the least that there's at least indictable levels of evidence. Eleven counts from a federal grand jury in Birmingham, Alabama that they essentially committed money laundering, bank fraud, wire fraud in order to create, in order to commit cultural fraud in order to essentially just be a false flag operation on one hand and then on the other hand a vehicle of condemnation of your enemies so you could commit. You know, there's a, there's a term from old Marxist, old Marxist term social murder that essentially when you, when you put down the working, the, the disadvantaged class so much, they will lash out. And it's justified to do so, like insurance executives or frankly like Charlie Kirk. The splc, for those of you that aren't in our world, has been used to take people like us and put us on watch lists, do not call lists, don't book lists, don't publish lists, essentially a form of shunning. And there's at least indictable evidence that the entire thing was a complete and total Marxist sham from the beginning. And, and they, and they use this organization because it once in a previous era had had a brand that people trusted so that they could then hollow out that brand and then use it again as a skin suit to essentially turn it in from, into a, into an, into an entity of social justice. Whatever you think of that term. I'm not a fan of it, but that's originally what it was in the, in the 50s and the 60s. Now they've turned it into a stormtrooper, into a Stasi. That's how badly they want to beat you. And apparently they even left some of the receipts, otherwise we wouldn't have the evidence to get an 11 count indictment in a federal court. I would imagine the kind of thing that we all probably knew was going on the entire time, but they left a paper trail of it. That's how bad they want to win. Stop and think about the fact

[Molly Hemingway]

I

[Steve Dace]

don't want to risk a job, I don't want to risk getting banned on a social media platform. I don't want to risk the replies on my Facebook page. These are the things we're all wrestling with over here. They are taking institutions of the civil rights era and just morphing them into modern day American stasis without any shame at all and any hesitation. Cannot beat an opponent who wants to beat you more than you want to beat them. And that brings us to the vote in Virginia. And I'll talk about that after I remind you about our friends over at Relief Factor. If you're struggling with too much chronic pain, this is not an antidote, not a panacea, not a potion of magic variety, but it might be your solution, right? Over the years, over 1 million people have tried the supplement known as relief factor and 70% of them saw such great results, they stuck with the product long term. So why don't you see if you don't see a difference in your pain in three weeks or less, when you go to relieffactor.com, ask for the three week quick start. It's a drug free supplement created by physicians who can prescribe drugs, right? Especially you only get to spend 20 bucks. That's a very good value bet. 70% chance of success for just 20 bucks. So what do you have to lose? Why don't you see if you don't see a difference in your quality of life with that chronic pain, that stiffness, that soreness, achiness, your back, knee, hips, et cetera, go to relieffactor.com, get started today with the three week quick start for just $20@ relieffactor.com so, Virginia. So the timing of this is providential. I just spent five days in Virginia. The five days leading up to this vote. I was in Virginia, in Alexandria, Virginia. That's where my wife and I stayed. We took a couple days off last week, remember, folks? And Amy and I decided to take a delayed anniversary getaway that we didn't get a chance to do in early April because my team was in the final Four, and my wife is awesome, and she didn't want me to miss it. So she's like, you know, we're going to D.C. in a couple weeks anyway. We'll just take a couple days, just you and me. And so that's what we did. And I did a couple of events there, including America Reads the Bible. I hope you guys are still following that. President of the United States read the Bible aloud on Tuesday from the White House. Do you remember the last time that was done?

[Todd Erzin]

No.

[Steve Dace]

I don't know. I'd have to look it up. All right, that's incredible. That event is. And what they've pulled off by God's grace. So remember, now, I'm working out twice a day because I'm on 75 hard right now. So, I mean, I'm listening to podcasts of a sports or theology variety for probably two to three hours every day, right? Between the amount of time I spend getting my steps in, amount of time I spend working out at the gym, and a lot of times the podcast national networks will insert ads that they geofence your location, and they'll. They'll put stuff in there that's relevant to where you are, right? Every theology and every sports podcast I listen to for five days, two to three hours a day, while working out twice a day in Alexandria, Virginia, for five days, every single break was Barack Obama coming on, urging people to vote for this referendum. Sometimes an answer from the right would come. It would never identify as Republican. I saw nothing at all from the Republican Party in the five days I was there. Nowhere. Nowhere. I saw nothing. Nothing about it. Anywhere. I saw nothing about it from the White House in the five days I was there. All the messaging came from the left. All of it did. Well, not all. The vast majority of it did. I did just mention. I heard a few breaks, about half of them a voice from the right. But it was not. It was no one we knew. It was just a voiceover, right? And they kind of almost tried to change their messaging to be tricky, like it was our perspective, but using their language, save democracy kind of stuff. You know, okay, and this thing only won by two points. What do you think it would have done if we would have. I mean, how much money do you think has been spent on getting John Cornyn through a Senate primary? Why? What if we took all the money that's been wasted getting John Cornyn through a Senate primary, you think, Todd, and applied it to the Virginia referendum, losing it by two points. What do you think the result might have been?

[Todd Erzin]

We have so many what if questions on our side that we never answer.

[Steve Dace]

I mean, this party is way more interested in having John Cornyn win a Senate primary in Texas than it was losing the state of Virginia for literally forever. Because that's what we're on the brink of doing right now. We have to hope for a Hail Mary pass within the Virginia judicial system. Well, Steve, I thought you didn't like activist judges. We're in a civil war. If you rule for me, you're not an activist. You rule against me. You are. That's where we are, and I'm fine with it. The social compact is broken by virtue of what you just tried to put on a referendum. You see what I'm saying?

[Todd Erzin]

Yes.

[Steve Dace]

You essentially took a state that was a 55, 52, 48 state and made it a 9010 state. All right, cool. Social compact is broken, then. Fine.

[Todd Erzin]

And when Spanberger herself, when she was running, they asked her point blank, it's on video. Are you going to redistrict? She said, no, I'm not going to do that.

[Steve Dace]

So if that's how we're going to roll, okay, then the social compact is broken. I don't owe you that. Turn the other cheek is not just keep getting run over and over and over. There's a justice, retributive, restorative justice aspect to the word of God. I don't owe you that. So then, okay, if that's where we are, then cool. I like judges who make the decisions I like. And if they do, they're righteous. And if they don't, then they're activist and unrighteous. Those are the rules. I'm happy to play by those. I'm not watering down my standard to play by those rules. I'm just not going to elevate it higher than you're willing to match me because we're not in a relationship anymore, so I don't have to. We're an evenly yoked. You don't treat your wife the way you do a female neighbor, do you?

[Todd Erzin]

Any suicide pact is immoral.

[Steve Dace]

Yeah. So you know why you don't. You're unevenly yoked. You're not in the same level of relationship. Right? Okay, so we're not. We're not. We're not in these. We're not United States in this. In the. In the spirit of the. Of the term anymore. Right? Okay, so we're not. So then. Then I don't owe you that extra. I don't. I don't owe you that benefit of the doubt. I don't owe that to you. I don't. The Constitution's not a suicide pact. Neither is the Declaration of Independence. But you have to keep in mind these people did this right after they just won this last election. Last November. This was. The next thing they did was get this thing on the ballot. They're going, Tim Kaine, he was gonna be the moderate voice for Hillary Clinton as her VP in 2016. He's going on TV on Fox News even, and saying, when asked, is the State of Virginia 9010? Well, no, we just need to make sure we have enough members of Congress to stand up to Trump's tyranny. Not even. There's. There's not even a spin to this. They want you to know what they're doing. They're proud of it. Prideful, you might even say. We're not even sure if John Thune's going to bring the Save act up for a vote in the Senate right now. That's where we are. But we're recoding marijuana for reasons I don't know what those are. And we're. We're going to restore the FISA program without any restrictions. The thing that they weaponized. Not so we can then turn around and weaponize them against them, which I'm all for. I mean, my first thing is just to get rid of the program if we're not. Actually, no, this is what I would do. Weaponize it against our enemies. And after that is successful, then we get rid of it so they can't do it to us. That's how you win wars. You win wars doing stuff like that. Get out of this mindset. You're in some social compact. You're not. At least not with them. We might be with one another, but we're not with them. We're not with them. And you can't want to beat an opponent who wants to beat you more than you want to beat them. Now, there's a line for Christians where we can turn this all into idolatry and we can't cross that line. We're nowhere close to that line, we're nowhere close to it. A show like this should be going in the other direction, should be saying, hey, ease up, we're going too far. Should be the conscience of the republic, not the conviction of it. But since we're nowhere close to that line, we're not doing the conscience now, we're doing the convicting. Get a lot closer to that line. At least we're it's in sight. Then maybe we might have a chance to actually win this thing. The truth straight, no chaser.

[Todd Erzin]

Steve Dace on the Blaze Radio Network.

[Steve Dace]

All right, Back here on the Steve Day show, live and on demand on Blaze tv, radio and podcasts. We're brought to you by our friends over at Fast Growing Trees. They've got the largest and most trusted online nursery in the country with thousands of trees and plants, over 2 million happy customers. They've got everything that your yard and home, indoor and outdoor, everything it needs, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs, houseplants, all grown with care, guaranteed to arrive healthy. That's their alive and thrive guarantee that your plants will arrive in those two conditions. You can also make sure, hey, I don't have a green thumb. Neither do we. All right? You've got the trained plant experts there that can help you to landscape, choose the right plants for you, learn how to care for them every single step of the way. Now, this time of year, they've got all kinds of deals going. But now, just for you guys being a part of our show, if you've never gone to Fast Growing Trees before, you get an additional 20% off of your first purchase. If you use the code Dace at checkout, that's an additional 20% off their everyday low prices on your first purchase with the code dace@fast growingtrees.com use the promo code [e-mail] for that extra 20% off offer valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. Well, I believe this. I don't know how this is possible because I've been following her work and admiring it for years, but I think this might be the first time that we have had the one and only Molly Hemingway on our show. She's the author of the new book the justice who Reshaped the Supreme Court and Restored the Constitution. It's a pleasure to have her here on the Steve Day Show. Molly, it's good to have you finally with us. How are you?

[Molly Hemingway]

It's so great to be here with you.

[Steve Dace]

So if you don't mind, can we start with maybe the end and work our way back to the start of the Justice Alito story. There were a lot of rumors throughout the course of so far this year that he was maybe going to retire this year. Upon hearing some of those rumors, I started just doing some research on who I with sources I had of potential replacements. Wrote a piece about that over at the Blaze here a few weeks ago because I, I think it is, it is pertinent that we have to go a one for one trade here that when the time comes to trade Alito with Thomas and Thomas that they've got to get they similar A justices have to be the replacements. They can't be C +B minus justices. They've gotta be an A for an A. Now they're denying those rumors. I know Fox had a report I think a few days ago saying that he's not gonna retire. This, I mean you've been writing about him now for this book. So what do you think?

[Molly Hemingway]

I share the view that he is not retiring this year. And I also think you're right to focus on who's going to be able to replace him and Justice Thomas and do it at that high level. It's going to be almost impossible to replace either of these two men. They are really great Americans, the kind that we don't really make anymore. But we have to think about who is it at least near that caliber because the work they've done on the court is important and it should continue.

[Steve Dace]

I'm of the opinion and it didn't make friends with some of my, even my own friends, but I am of the opinion that for the good of the republic, I just watched Ruth Bader Ginsburg hang on and hand us the victory over Roe versus Wade and I got a big laugh out of that. We made T shirts and everything else okay. But on the other side, that wasn't a joke. That's actually what happened. And I, you know, we have a very uncertain midterm cycle coming up, as you well know. And I kind of feel like maybe right now when we have the votes is maybe when we ought to go ahead and replace Alito and Thomas. And I've said this publicly and even some friends of mine who are close to one of those justices did not like hearing that. But I'm worried about the future for my kids and grandkids like we all are. So I mean, where do you come down on that?

[Molly Hemingway]

I think if people want to pressure someone to retire, they should look at the second longest serving justice on the court. He's also in his 70s, and that's Chief Justice John Roberts, because while he's not the worst thing in the world, he's not been as strong as people had hoped. He would be very good on issues like getting rid of racism and government programs, but weak and easily persuaded by his liberal peers in other areas. But because I just want to say it'd be really much more comforting to think about either Alito or Thomas stepping down if Donald Trump's three replacements were each a bit more consistent and solid. They're also not bad. You know, Gorsuch is great, but then he does a Bostock opinion, which is one of the worst things we've ever seen come from the court. And then Kavanaugh has, I think, exceeded many people's expectations. They expected him to be extremely moderate, and he's shown a lot of courage. With Justice Barrett, I think people were expecting the best justice in Supreme Court history. And again, she's always writing defensible things and her posture is a bit slower than maybe some of her peers would like. Given that, as you note, the court can change composition at any minute. When you have a good court, you want to make sure you're doing what you can to correct previous erroneous decisions and to move the ball down the field in a way that helps preserve America as a republic.

[Steve Dace]

When I look at Thomas and Alito, and I tend to speak in sports analogies because I'm a sports guy, to me, it's like Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig in a way. Right. Babe Ruth has this controversial trade that brings him to the Yankees. Clarence Thomas has this controversial confirmation hearing that the entire nation watched at the time. Babe Ruth has this colorful background, where he came from, the orphanages and everything else. And Clarence Thomas's, you know, know, history coming from the sharecropper, segregated south, things of that nature. And yet when you look at their overall numbers on a day to day basis, when they're in the prime of their careers, it's hard to tell the difference between Lou Gehrig, who was just kind of the quieter guy, did his job, showed up every single day, had the, had the longest, you know, consecutive games played streak for 80 years. Right. Or something like that. And that's kind of been Alito. I think a lot's really not known about his background. You know, he's almost so good, you just take it for granted. Oh, yeah, that's. He's Clarence Thomas wingman. Right. And so I would imagine there was a lot of content to mine there because of what I just said, well,

[Molly Hemingway]

Steve, I love that analogy and I might be stealing it for future conversation. The way I'd put it in the book was what one of, one of the people close to Alito had said, that Thomas is like the deployed aircraft carrier. His chambers are like that, whereas Alito's are like the Green Berets. And they work well together because you need both approaches. But I wanted to tell the story of Alito because he's this giant on the court. Everyone who works with him says he's the most brilliant member of the court. He's far and away the best at oral argument among the conservatives. Elena Kagan is also good at oral argument. He's just moving things nonstop. But because he's so reserved, because he's so quiet, nobody knows about him like they know about Thomas and Alito. But I think he's just as fascinating a character or with really interesting stories to tell about the America that he came from, which would be, you know, middle 20th century America, what he saw happen as progressives took over cities, how he was a stalwart and didn't change, even as he goes to all the elite institutions like Princeton for college and Yale Law for law school. But he doesn't, he doesn't moderate. He's a career civil servant who doesn't moderate. And he also shows something that I think is really important for your audience, which is you can be both principled and you can be effective. Those things are not in contradiction to each other. And a lot of people in the conservative movement, they think the only thing that matters is principles or the only thing that matters is winning at all costs. And he shows you can be principled and you can win. And I think that's a lesson not just for the legal community, but for everybody in their day to day lives.

[Steve Dace]

That's very well said as you were researching this book and compiling it. Don't give away the store because we want people to buy it, obviously, but give us one or two things that maybe surprised you the most that you would not have assumed going into this project.

[Molly Hemingway]

Well, being able to interview nearly 100 people, including people on the court, at the court, near the court, far and away. The most explosive story I tell is what happened after the Dobbs leak inside the court. The justices had their lives threatened. They were facing death threats and other attacks. They were having to wear bulletproof vests, being moved to secure locations. And the liberal justices, as I and I tell the whole story in the book, they intentionally slow walked their dissent so that that campaign of attacking these justices could have the longest chance of succeeding. And Dobbs was not official the ruling that overturned Roe v. Wade until it was publicly issued from the bench. So they were trying to get one of the justices to peel away through these intimidation tactics and they delayed their dissent unreasonably so, including that they put a footnote in their eventual dissent that they filed to a case that really was still being worked on, knowing that that would further delay publication of Dobbs for another three plus weeks. It's a really remarkable story and it relates to so much of what you're seeing now about collegiality on the Court. There are also reports that the liberal justices are once again slow walking that Louisiana case about racial gerrymandering. There's concern that if it comes out, it was from the October term and it should have been out already, but there's. They are concerned that if it comes out in time for Republican legislatures to do something about it, it would hurt the Democrat Party. And so they are slow walking it. This is pretty explosive stuff about what's happening on the Court.

[Steve Dace]

And of course, I mean, you mentioned collegiality. This is an institution that kind of. Well, at least under John Roberts. I've always viewed Roberts as an institutionalist. I think that's his highest worldview standard. Whatever he thinks will, whatever seems to be the provocateur, right or left, tends to be what he is against. I think he. I'm not saying he is this, but I think he views himself as the stabilizing presence that he's kind of holding. He's the. He's the guy holding back the Marxist leftist in the Democratic Party and the hardcore nationalist MAGA ites in the Trump Party. And he's the voice of sanity in the middle. I think if you look at the strain of his decisions, whatever side seems to be the most willing to challenge the social compact, he tends to rule against. And since they do that more often than us, he does rule against them more often than us. It's also why he rules against us, though, on some of the things we most need him on at the same time. So I've always operated under the theory, by the way, that I thought he leaked it, that I think the reason why we didn't find out who it was is because notice that he did not. The other justices, as you recall, went further than him. He was willing to align with the Mississippi law and uphold it, but he did not sign up for overturning Roe. And so I always thought he was the leaker. And that's why they were never able to trace where the leak came from, so to speak.

[Molly Hemingway]

So, Steve, first of all, very insightful of your analysis of where Chief Justice Roberts is. You're right. He, he would have upheld the law but not overturned Roe, which is a perfect example of how he operates. He would rather move extremely slowly over time rather than just do the difficult thing that needs to be done. And there was previous reporting that he and Breyer were running a campaign to get Kavanaugh to pull away. They would all agree to uphold the Mississippi law if Kavanaugh agreed not to overrule Roe. And he, he withstood that campaign. And I think that's really interesting. There are some, I talked to a lot of people about who they think leaked. Most people think it was a clerk, but there are some people who do think. Nobody thinks it was an actual justice. Maybe it was. But no, I didn't talk to anyone who actually thought it was the justice themselves. But there have been some comments about a staff member in the Roberts chamber who, who people think might have been involved. So it is interesting. You always think, who benefits? I don't think people were actually trying to get their colleagues killed, but they certainly wanted to show them. If you do this, the left will engage in violent assault. And are you sure you want to go through with that? And it was a lot of pressure. And it's impressive that each of the five withstood that pressure, particularly given that their children and their spouses and they themselves were under death threat.

[Steve Dace]

Well, that is, I just said give us a tease. That is one heck of a tease. That's just a sample of what's in this book. You want to check it out? Alito, the justice who reshaped the Supreme Court and restored the Constitution, Molly Hemingway. And we will definitely not wait so long to do this. The second round. Molly, it's good to have you with us.

[Molly Hemingway]

Thanks so much, Steve. Take care.

[Steve Dace]

All right, take care. God bless. So, Todd, without even intending, I mean, this conversation with Molly when I just gave her an open ended question, hey, pick something that gives our audience an understanding of what's in here. She immediately, without even knowing, probably what we were just discussing before she came on, she's probably doing, I mean, she's a big time author. She's done numerous bestsellers, probably doing 40 of these interviews today. For launching this book this week, she goes to the. The evidence of what it looks like when the social compact is broken, when the, the idea that I will not give you benefits of the Doubt anymore. All right, this is. We're no longer in alliance together. We are operating as adversaries. And. And the. And the only limiting principle will be what I think I could particularly get away with in a given time. That's exactly what we're just talking about, where you cannot beat an opponent who wants to beat you more than you want to beat them. I mean, when she's talking about. Well, they just let this simmer out there. They wanted to let the pressure mount just so they would, you know, their colleagues would get a taste, notice what wasn't discussed there. Legal precedent, natural law, starry decisis. You know, the kind of things you were told anyway, that we're going into making Supreme. This is how political bodies operate, right? Leaking things, staging things, letting things. Trial balloons, letting people feel the heat in a way in to get them to pull back. If that is infiltrated at the Supreme Court level, then at this point, brother, it's just in the water table comprehensively in America at the moment.

[Todd Erzin]

Yeah. And she chose to say that in a book that is specifically about one guy named Samuel Alito. But I'm getting the impression, and God bless her, if this is what this book is about, I can't wait to read it. Now, this book is serving as a sort of Trojan horse to say a lot of things that need to be said but might not be paid as much attention to if they weren't specifically about this. You can talk about a man like Molly said, quote, they don't make people like this anymore, but who's. And what is replacing it? And it is the kind of judges who will look at you within those chambers and say, well, maybe the terrorists have a point. That's what she was telling you. The liberal justices are saying, well, you know, chaos in the streets, that might be on you. How do you like that neck connecting your head to your shoulders?

[Steve Dace]

That's a Marxist ethos is what that is. That's the term social murder I just used a minute ago. That's a. This is the natural. This is a natural consequence of your tyranny, of your imposition on my fake rights, is that people, you know, lash out violently so. Because you won't let me commit murder. So you just need to get a taste of that to reconsider. You know, that's a nice Supreme Court seat you have there.

[Todd Erzin]

Exactly.

[Steve Dace]

Be ashamed if anything happened to it. That's a nice brownstone in Georgetown where you live with your family and young children. Brett Kavanaugh. It'd be a shame who have already been through hell with the whole, you know, confirmation process for him as well. That turned out to be a scam. It'd be a shame if something happened to your place there in suburban D.C.

[Todd Erzin]

yeah, I'm just getting the feeling that if I asked Molly, is the subtitle of this book really the Fall of the Republic? Because if you don't have Samuel Alitos anywhere, it just. As regular citizens, people with that level, you know, he's not looking for the glory. He's not wearing a cape. He's doing his duty. We don't have that anymore. We have people who want to push the terrorists out front and center and are proud to do so.

[Steve Dace]

I am still concerned. Listen, I've had a great relationship with Ginny Thomas, as you know, for many years. She's been a huge advocate of mine, and she has not spoken to me in about seven months since I said, I think, hey, I think we have to. We need these guys to retire so we can replace them while we can. And Molly brings up a good point, though.

[Todd Erzin]

With who?

[Steve Dace]

With whom? Even if we have the votes right now. See, now, now, that's an argument that I guess I should have thought of that I did not, which is it's a gamble either way, right? Kind of like what we're about to just talk about with Iran. It's. It's a game. We do nothing. Maybe. Maybe they don't get a nuclear weapon. Then if they did, then if we do nothing, maybe they do and they use it. It's a gamble, right? If we let these guys play out for as long as we need them, as long as we can, because we don't have replacements, they might do another 10 years. Who knows, right? Might do another 10 minutes. That's the gamble here. Yes. Hour two is next. All right, back here with hour two, live and on demand on Blaze tv, radio, and podcast. Steve Dace here from Blaze hq. Todd Erzin here with me. We'll be here tomorrow as well. And then we are flying home after the show. And since I needed to rent a car, that's going to add about two hours to our travel time, because the DFW airport, which is one of my favorite big city airports in the country, by the way, easy to navigate, easy to get around. Whenever I come down here, pretty close to literally everything I got to do when I come down here, turns out it may have the slowest car rental process in the United States of America. Holy cow, even you were complaining. And you're normally the one that says, hey, suck it up. This puts hair in your chest. Even you were like, this is taking too long.

[Todd Erzin]

It was rather busted.

[Steve Dace]

I mean, you literally look for long lines.

[Todd Erzin]

Yes.

[Steve Dace]

I'm going to look for the longest line. I'm here to suffer growth opportunities. This is only slightly satirical. We're only slightly exaggerating. Todd will look for the longest line. All right. Just another time for growth and suffering and maybe stigmata. All right, so even you were like, this has taken too long. Even you were like, and everybody's a foreigner.

[Todd Erzin]

And there was that too.

[Steve Dace]

It's taking too long. And I, I can't understand anything anybody is saying.

[Todd Erzin]

There's not 10 gallon hats and cowboy boots in most of the places I see.

[Steve Dace]

And wow. I mean, when you saw our friend and colleague Sarah Gonzalez's post about taking her kids to the park, she lives down here. Taking her kids to the, the park over the weekend. She was like, I felt like I was in New Delhi. You know, what is going on? That's not much of an exaggeration. I mean, some, some stuff is changing here for sure.

[Todd Erzin]

Can you imagine the reboot of Dallas now? Maybe that's where we need to go. A little sketch.

[Steve Dace]

Blessed Aid Mubarak Hour two. Don't forget to let us know what you think about what we think via the stevedace.com inbox by emailing us steve dace.com that's D E A C E like us on Facebook, Me, we and Gab. You can follow us at Steve Da show on x Instagram and TikTok. You can also subscribe to our new YouTube channel @Dace show on YouTube. That's a show on YouTube. And then finally, if you wouldn't mind, make sure if you like the podcast to subscribe to that, hit the subscribe button or if you're on Apple itunes, hit the follow button to ensure that every time we do a new episode, it will be for sure right there in your podcast feed. And then you can also as many, many of you have over tens of, over tens of thousands of you have done this for us. Leave us a five star review. And thanks to you if you want to do that for us today. And thanks to our friends over at Beam. If you're looking for the best night's sleep you can get, and frankly, you deserve. What if I told you it cost you a buck 25 a night to get that sleep? Because that's what our friends at Beam Dream Powder are offering you right now with their 40% off their dream Powder. What is it? Well, think Back to when you were a kid, right? Think back to when you were a kid and no one knew what an intermittent fasting was when we were kids, Right. And mostly nobody knew what morbid obesity was either. So Nana just handed you the hot cocoa when you were a kid. Knocked you out, Right? That's kinda what this is without the carbs and the sugars we have to worry about these days. Alright. What it does have though is thethe natural ingredients you're looking for for that sleep. Melatonin, reishi, magnesium and more. Several great flavors. I'm a chocolate peanut butter guy. You can check it out today. Get 40% off with my code Steve@shotbeam. Like laserbeam. Shotbeam.com Steve. Use the promo code Steve for 40% off. Try it today for 40% off with the promo code [e-mail] Steve. And with that. This is a topic that let me just say I am unhappy with. How often we've had to discuss this during the course of my career. I have, I've had my fill of Middle Eastern war. I have, I've just, I've had my feel of it. Remember we discussed this last summer with Midnight Hammer. I think is the last time we did this.

[Todd Erzin]

Yeah.

[Steve Dace]

And what did I say leading up to Midnight Hammer? Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. I do not want to go to war with Iran. How does that work? I remember saying, I have no idea. And I don't have to figure that out. I'm not the President. That's not my. I don't have to figure that out. That's why one of the reasons why the Bible says to pray for your leaders, okay? Because they're the ones that gotta, they're the ones, they gotta figure out how to make those two things happen at the same time. Well, what we learned last year with Operation Midnight Hammer is that we could still exercise a lethal force against an enemy in an instant without getting bogged down in nation building and prolonged engagement. Right. And at the time I kind of, if you recall, I kind of made this as an analogy as analogous to Reagan and Grenada. And when Reagan took over in the early 80s, there was still a lot of PTSD from Vietnam. That we just, we are, we all, we must now just negotiate with our enemies. We cannot project strength at all anymore. And eventually us being second fiddle to the Soviet Union. I know for some of you this sounds silly, but this is the world that you and I grew up in. Yeah. We were little kids and when we were born into this country, this was the mindset of this country, Walter Cronkites given a countdown of 444 days, hostages. Jimmy Carter tried to rescue him. It was a colossal embarrassment. Okay? And keep in mind we couldn't rescue the hostages back. The ayatollahs have been in power for like 10 minutes. They didn't have in a Revolutionary Guard of 150,000 trained zealots and mercenary Islamists from around the world. They didn't have anything. They were just guerrillas. We couldn't even project enough strength to get our own hostages out from a country that until 10 minutes ago was largely a vassal state of the United States, if we're being honest. And then, you know, we watched our news networks would show all these May day parades at the Soviet Union and Brezhnev would sit there and, you know, years later we found out that a lot of these were just paper mache cut ups to make it look. But we didn't know the messages that we were being fed when you and I were little kids was our days were over and it was just a matter of time before we were the beta to the Soviet Union's alpha. And challenging them at all, going right at them at all, would just cause them to push the button and nuke us out of existence. That was the zeitgeist that you and I grew up in. And Reagan, he flipped that on its head. And the event that helped him to do that was Grenada. He sent the marines in to, I think it was, was it college students and some professors, I believe. I want to say that's what it was, that he went into rescue and sent the military. And it was an on the ground operation and it was a smashing success. And people were like, oh, it's not 1968 anymore. We can be America again. And then the favorability of Reagan's defense buildup, his policies and posture towards the Soviet Union became immensely popular. He won a resounding reelection in 1984. Soviet Union was collapsing by the end of the decade. And the rest, as they say, is history, right? In many respects, I think Operation Midnight Hammer last year was Trump's Grenada. We're tired, man. Okay? When it comes to the Middle east, all of us are like, we're tired. All right? We've done our tour of duties over there a couple times. Okay. At the same token, though, can you just let a regime that has killed and or kidnapped hundreds of Americans in the last century just go ahead and let them have a weapon of mass destruction? Can you do that? I think I've told you guys the story before I came this close to going with The Ron Paul 2012 presidential campaign just because I thought he was the one candidate running that might be crazy enough to drain some swamping around here. And then there was a debate before the Iowa straw poll that year where the question of Iran came up, and Ron Paul said, well, if I was Iran, I'd want a nuclear weapon, too. And I'm like, yeah, I'm not. No, I'm not. I'm not doing. We can drain all the swamp we run here and won't really matter if Iran drops a nuclear bomb in, you know, El Paso. Right. You know, so, no, we're not doing a nuclear Iran, but that's the gamble here.

[Todd Erzin]

And this is what you liked about Trump's big speech in Riyadh in 1.0. Yeah, just like, we can all be groovy together, and if we can't, then you can get a bomb.

[Steve Dace]

Yeah, we're cool if you want to leave us alone, too. But stepping to us is no longer an option for you. And he proved that by moabbing Assad in Syria thereafter. And that's the great irony of all of this, is we're having all this consternation about spillover war and everything. Tucker and Douglas MacGregor and all that crowd said none of that has happened. They've all been wrong about that. They're wrong about it last year, they're wrong about it this year. And instead, what Trump has done, I don't even blame them for having these fears. Dude, Charlie and I were. You and I were sitting in a hotel room last June after doing Seth Gruber's event in Southern California, watching this go down last night. And Charlie and I were texting each other that night while this was going down. Both of us concerned about spillover effect of this because we still didn't still know the scope of it. We're just watching it in real time. Right. And we're texting each other, is this going to be a spillover war? We cannot afford this. We're texting each other our own angst and fears about this at that time. Well, now. So I don't blame people for thinking that last year, but we kind of have a proof of concept. We have a year of data now that shows a lot that we have the most comprehensive list of Arab allies as a nation we've ever had. We've never had this kind of alliance in the Arab world as a country. Never. And it blows my mind that people are more resolved in Riyadh and Cairo and Amman than they are and maybe and in Dubai than they are in, you know, Davenport and Dallas blows my mind. But some of it is also because of justifiable PTSD. And we are now, tomorrow will be the eighth week anniversary of when this launched. It'll be day 56 tomorrow. That's gonna be one of our topics on the day Screw, by the way. And we were originally told four weeks to flatten Iran. Right. That's four to five weeks to flatten the. Flatten Iran. Well, now we're going into week eight. All right. Week eight starts tomorrow. And so now we were going to do this about a month ago, and then I said, let's hold off and see how much longer this goes. I think now especially, do you know what the end is in sight is? I don't know.

[Todd Erzin]

No. There's a different story about the peace treaty and the not the peace terms and the Strait of Hormuz every day.

[Steve Dace]

When you and I talked about doing this as a topic for theology Thursday, about three weeks ago. Since then, the vice President has said we don't really know who has negotiating power over there. Okay. The President has been able to successfully, as of yesterday, this is a tremendous accomplishment that didn't get mentioned enough. Successfully got Iran to agree to not execute eight Iranian females that they had plans to execute very publicly. But now today we're saying we're going to just any Iranian ship that is caught putting any further mines in the Strait of Hormuz, I've ordered our navy to fire upon them. We're doing a blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, which no one was talking about when we launched Operation Epic Fury. Right. So it seems like from afar, we're almost in this like smoke them out siege strategy where we don't want to put a massive army on the ground in order to get rid of this regime. So we're just kind of, we're blockading the strait, we're trying to crush the can here and hem them in. Siege warfare takes a long time, folks. That kind of smoke them out. You got to get those folks down to no resources. That's one of the most ancient strategies of warfare is siege warfare. You know, get the people to come out from behind the city wall like Nebuchadnezzar did. So I think now is the time for us to have this conversation, cuz there really is no end in sight. Now, if Trump just said we're pulling out in the next five minutes, would you be shocked? I would not be. If we were still doing this while celebrating the 250th birthday of America on July 4th. Would you be shocked?

[Todd Erzin]

And that's more likely at this point?

[Steve Dace]

Yeah. I have no idea when this is gonna end. I'm not sure they know.

[Todd Erzin]

No, honestly, because I don't. Regarding the Strait of Hormuz, it. It does not seem like there has been a plan from the beginning. Even if siege warfare is a plan you disagree with, you don't like, it's a real plan, it has a chance of success if you're patient. I don't think that was the plan from the beginning. They've been just trying to.

[Steve Dace]

Because I think if it was the plan, they would have done it from the beginning. All right. They would have done this from the start. All right? And so we know we have severely diminished their military capacity. That is without a doubt. Otherwise they'd be acting out. Right. But we. But they still have this one last piece of leverage left, and that's kind of what this is now all about. So since we are at what appears to be at least some form of a standstill with Operation Epic Fury, I think the time has come to get into just war theory and apply it to this war as best as we can. All right, a quick little preamble reminder. What is just war theory for those of you that are new to the show? So just war theory's origins in the Christian tradition begin with Augustine. They don't end there. This has been pontificated upon, written about for centuries, and there's variations thereof. Okay. And then there have been updated versions throughout the history of the Church, too. All right, so now, you know, Augustine laid out kind of the first basic framework for what is a just war to get in. Then how are we permitted to behave when we're actually in one? Right. So there. This is. This is. There's a long train of Christian and great Christian thought and debate about this. Now, why did it begin with Augustine? Well, for two reasons. One, he's probably the greatest thinker in the entire history of the Church that didn't write a book in the. In the canon. He's. He's posted Church fathers around the 4th century, 4th century. So his. I mean, his influence outside of the Bible writers themselves. I'm not sure there is a figure in the history of the Church that would have as uniform both Catholic and Protestant regard as Augustine would. The Reformers held Augustine in very high regard. Luther himself was an Augustinian monk, and many of his understandings of single predestination and those kinds of things were very Augustinian in their thought. The other reason is the timing. It also just happened that, you know, now Rome has been essentially fully Christianized now or post Constantine, Rome has been fully Christianized now. And so now for the first time, Christianity goes from being a remnant, a radical group, an outsider group to it. We're the, we're the, we're the, you know, we're in charge now. This is our empire now. Well, it goes back to what you and I said last hour. We still have limiting principles. Even though Rome is now views itself as a Christian kingdom, not even ancient Rome is the, is the, that kingdom is not. That's not our kingdom. That's not our host kingdom. Right. And so Augustine wrote tons about these kinds of topics. Are we allowed to, you know, when in Rome do as the Romans well, no, Right? That's what City of God, maybe his most momentous work that he wrote, gets into a lot of this kind of a framework. What then are the limiting principles we still have to live by? Even in a Roman Empire now that is no longer foe, but friend, it's now spreading Christianity. But we also cannot become, you know, tools of the government of Rome at the exact same time because you were, you were, you're always just one emperor away from a pharaoh who knows not Joseph. Right. And we live by eternal principles, not principles that get modified based on who the emperor is. We live by eternal principles. Therefore, you know, how do we make sure that we're doing so consistently regardless whether the emperor is Nero or Augustine, okay. Or I'm sorry. Or Constantine? And so that's kind of the preamble for just war. When, when, when will, if Rome calls us to war, are we okay with, you know, what if Rome went back to the old ways of just conquest for conquest sake, for the glory of Rome. Should Christians fight for the glory of Rome like you see depicted in the movie Gladiator, for example? Or are we, do we have a higher calling than that? And so Augustine spent a good deal of time writing about these ethical boundaries, both defending the faith, the orthodoxies of the faith. But then also, how do we apply this now in this world where for the first time there is a Christian form of hegemony on this planet, we're no longer the marginalized folks. So that's kind of the history of just war theory. And in a moment, we're going to go through now all of the components as it was originally constructed and define those and then for theology, Thursday here, and then apply them to the current operation Epic Fury in Iraq. And we'll do that after we talk to you about our friends over at Selectquote because it's time for some life talk. Life insurance, that is, and you probably have it, but do you know how much you're paying for it? For how much are you being covered? Do you know the answers to those questions? Odds are you're paying too much for too little. And did you know if you receive life insurance through your job and you're unexpectedly laid off, you could suddenly be covered and insured for nothing in that regard? So that's again why you want to check out our friends over at Select Quote. Because for over 40 years they've been one of the most trusted brokers in insurance, helping more than million Americans secure over 700 billion with a B billion dollars in coverage. And their mission is simple, to find you the right insurance policy for your unique needs. They will shop so you can save. And unlike other one size fits all life insurance companies, select quotes, licensed agents, they're going to work for you and do so in as little as 15 minutes as well. All right. No medical exam, no problem pre existing condition. They've got insurers that can help you with those as well. So get the right life insurance for you and for less and save more than [e-mail] Steve. Save more than 50% on term life [e-mail] Steve today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com Steve. All right, Mr. Erzin, are you ready to walk through this again?

[Todd Erzin]

Absolutely.

[Steve Dace]

Can I make a motion, a very quick motion before we do? Okay, motion. We do not have to do a just war theory segment on this show for like another five years. All in favor? There's no reason to have this conversation.

[Todd Erzin]

Oh, there's going to be a reason.

[Steve Dace]

Yeah, I would like to not do this one for a while. Okay. I'm kind of sick of this segment. Right. But again, if we're going to get, for going to be there now, now we have to win now we have to win that we no one's interests are suited by losing. We have to win or coming away with some kind of weak, you know, more, you know, dressed up version of the Iran deal. If we're going to do this now and we're going to take on all the political, you know, absorption for this, then win. All right, let's start. All right. First component of just war theory is the war has to be fought for a just cause. That war is intended to defend attacks, protect the innocent, restore justice. Right. That the war must be for a just cause. It cannot be conquest for conquest sake. It can't be for the glory of Rome. That has to be for a just cause. So, Todd, I'm going to start there with you. All right? What we have been told is the defining mission here is that this war was launched in order to assure that Iran could never have the form of weapons of mass destruction. That would allow it to take the mischief, mayhem, macabre that it has tried to export on a granular level with its terrorist operations for decades. It cannot do that on an intercontinental level via weapons of mass destruction. Do we accept together that that's the justification for the war? Yes, as it's been defined?

[Todd Erzin]

Yes.

[Steve Dace]

Okay, so in your opinion, does that meet the very first criteria of just war theory? Is that a just war?

[Todd Erzin]

It absolutely is. And this is. If we can't answer that, this one, we don't even need to go for this. That's why it's first in order.

[Steve Dace]

Thank you for noting that. Yes, these are put in order. It's a step by step process. They're not randomized. If you pass one, you move on to the next one.

[Todd Erzin]

Yes, because like in Catholic teaching about mortal sin, there's three qualifications. And one, the first one is grave matter. The second two are your involvement in that grave matter. Did you know it was grave matter? And did you willingly participate? But the first one has nothing to do. Is it just uniquely evil in and of itself? Islam has been aggressively and explicitly on the attack against Christendom since the very beginning, whether it's in Iran anyplace else. It's never changed that approach to things in Iran ever since 1979, as you've already laid out the details, it's only increasingly made clear who and what it is to its own people, who it oppresses. It's behind October 7th, it's behind Hamas, it's behind Hezbollah. So, yes, Islamic Iran is not just today and not even just because it has nuclear weapons. It is because it claims it is a threat to all things in the west, explicitly Christendom. And you just are adding another shrimp to the Barbie by making it a nuclear Iran. And this is where I agree with the Pope, my Pope and his imagine theology on this. Yes, Islam is an opponent. It is not something that intends to live in peace with us. Hopefully there's better days than others on that front. And we have now how many years since Islam has been on the scene? We've been doing this for a while, okay? But it is never something that simply we are walking hand in hand with and believing there's just all kinds of roads to faith. It aggressively, militantly has a different opinion on it. And just like you said, in terms of politics, the stakes are even raised higher. We can't beat somebody who wants to beat us worse than we even care about. To recognize as true, we just have to recognize the honest truth of this. And the Pope and many people have just been foolhardy about this.

[Steve Dace]

What do we say to people who are like, listen, Bibi Netanyahu was crying about Iran having a nuclear weapon in the 90s. That's true. Right. You and I have heard this talk and discussions been had a few times. That's why we did the Iran deal. The two Iran deals. I think it was two under the Obama. I think they did one and then they renewed it, I think in 2015. Sent them the pallets of cash and everything else. Because this, especially if you are a gen zer and you would be in the generation that would be asked to go fight a war in Iran. Right. Okay. All you've known is we've been buying off Iran to not get a nuclear weapon your entire life. Right. Okay. And they haven't. They haven't. There was a 60 Minutes report that aired just last Sunday that they've got enough enriched uranium for 10 missiles. But then again, how much are we quoting and citing 60 Minutes as an affirmative source nowadays on literally anything on a show like this? Right. All right. So we're not here if you don't want to trust the intelligence community. I mean, I wouldn't know why you would come to such an assumption. Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, The Hunter Biden laptops fake. Okay. Russian collusion is real. I've got no. Why in the world would members of this audience not want to trust the intelligence community? Assessments of things, Todd. Why? I can't think of reasons other than all of them. Other than all of them. I don't think either you and I are here to argue with anybody's skepticism of the intelligence community. Correct?

[Todd Erzin]

Right.

[Steve Dace]

All right. Here's what we do know for sure. We do know for sure that Iran did test a. Did in this. In the, in the theater of war, during this conflict, did test a level of missile capability that we were previously told they did not have. It was. They're trying to get to the ICBM level of where they could reach a United States, for example. All right. They're not there yet, but they're beyond. They already tested missiles that would reach Europe, for example. That they, they did. Now those tests were not very successful, but they already demonstrated they were trying to acquire a level of missile technology that would remove them out of being a threat just to their own region, but then also our NATO allies there in the nation, in the continent of Europe. So that we have seen that. We have seen that. Right? So even if you don't want to go with, even if you don't want to buy that they're close to having a nuclear weapon, would never have a nuclear weapon. This whole thing's been a scam for 30 years. I, I really can't talk you out of that. I'm not even sure you're wrong. Okay. I mean I came of age doing this pushing back on the entire Iraq quagmire and why did we ever go there in the first place? You heard all those shows, you know, back in the day. So I'm not here to question any of that. What we can't question though is that Iran has taste tested a military capability beyond what we were told that it had, which would extend its reach beyond its current region. That is true.

[Todd Erzin]

I agree with your analysis there. But it's not a standard. To look at our absolute fecklessness for decades and acknowledge that that is true and why we might have pause and be skepticism but then never to act again, that's even a greater form of cowardice in the face. When it becomes more obvious that the evil is more aggressive and you won't do anything only because the mistakes of the past, that's just wrong. Iran October 7th happened. That's not a direct threat to us, but it's a sign of what they plan on doing. And yes, Bibi Netanyahu did have those concerns in the 90s. You know what, back then in our utopian fantasies, the UN was putting Iran on like all kinds of humanitarian councils. Okay? So the world is at a point now with certain leaders having an opportunity to do certain things that other men wouldn't do. Quite frankly, I'm tired of the fecnises. I'm ready for men who are really ready to vanquish evil because it needs to be vanquished.

[Steve Dace]

Now we're spending more time on this one because it's the most important one.

[Todd Erzin]

If you don't have the docked down,

[Steve Dace]

we'll go through the rest of them quicker in the next segment. So let me ask one more follow up question then by your. Again, I'm trying to play, you know, it's not devil's advocate. These are principled arguments on the Other side. I don't begrudge anybody who has a principled argument on the other side of this. Then for that to be true, then you have to also make the argument then, don't you, that if Iran didn't have any nuclear capability, this still would have been a just war. Then

[Todd Erzin]

it's a just war. In terms of the terms, is this nation uniquely and aggressively and explicitly have evil intent. I don't look at what Islam is claiming it's going to do in England, in this state where you and I right now, what it says about what its plans are for Texas, it's not ambiguous. It does not plan on doing a peace song with you ever.

[Steve Dace]

I also would add, for those of you asking that question, you have to remember now we've had three straight administrations deal with an Iranian. Well, four if you count Trump, twice. Okay? Four straight administrations dealing with the Iranian nuclear question. The Obama and Biden administrations gave Iran masses amount of money to not build or enrich uranium to create nuclear weaponry. Right? And then Trump canceled that deal in this first term, isolated them by creating this Arab coalition to kind of put them on an island because he knew the Arab countries didn't like Iran either. Right? And then now this is how he has chosen to answer this dilemma with Operation Epic Fury. My point being is the Trump administration's claim here is not new. All right? Four administrations have been dealing with Iran and whether it's trying to get a nuclear weapon or not, in both parties, they could all be wrong. But there's more. This is not a recent event.

[Todd Erzin]

It's not evil because they have nuclear weapons. We have nuclear weapons.

[Steve Dace]

The truth straight no chaser Steve Dace. All right, back here on the Steve Dase show, powered by our friends over at Ghostbed. Ghostbed isn't just a mattress. It's health equipment. Engineered cooling helps prevent overheating. A major cause of those nighttime wake ups that can interrupt your sleep. Like, I had to get up to pee three times last night. Three times. Okay. And precision support helps to keep your spine aligned as well. So you're, you're not tossing and turning and waking up stiff either. All right? And I wanted to put the ghostbed to the test, so I had my son test it out because he's in the process of getting his own place and getting his own life started. He needed a new bed. He raves about it. Right? So. And he's not as quite as hard to please as you are. He's not quite as hard, but way harder to please than his old man is.

[Todd Erzin]

There's time, Noah. Keep working, Padawan.

[Steve Dace]

Okay, so you can try it for yourself. They give you 101 night risk free to try it at home. If they're giving you that long, that's a third of a year. If they're giving you that long, they're pretty confident you're gonna like it. Okay. And if you don't feel the difference, you can send it back. All right, and so Ghostbed right now they're having their spring sale plus an extra 10% off with the code Steve for being a part of our audience. When you go to ghostbed.com Steve, that's ghostbed.com Steve. Code Steve for another 10% off their spring sale. On top of that, 10% [e-mail] Steve. Promo code Steve. All right, let's get back to just war theory. And we discussed, we spent a good deal of time talking about the very first component because this is a step by step process. And so the first one is the most important. If it's not a just cause, then there's no reason to articulate the rest of these. All right, let's go to legitimate authority. And that means that really only a duly understood established government can instigate, declare, launch a war. Not private individuals, not factions within a government. All right. That it has to be what is recognized as those that are truly in charge of a people at that given time. So do we view a legitimate authority here under President Trump as checking this box according to just war theory?

[Todd Erzin]

Yes. I mean, I'm sure people will say only Congress can get declare war. Well, only Congress is supposed to be doing a lot of things and it's abdicated those for a.

[Steve Dace]

What's a Congress?

[Todd Erzin]

Exactly. And furthermore, one of the sins that make this a just cause is that Iran is guilty of not being a part of just cause wars. It's constantly funding proxies like it did on October 7. It has been doing it for decades now.

[Steve Dace]

Yeah, I'm looking up right now, by the way, because I think what maybe people don't understand is that the United States has actually only declared war.

[Todd Erzin]

Yeah.

[Steve Dace]

11 times under.

[Todd Erzin]

The last time was World War II. Yeah.

[Steve Dace]

That was the last time that this was done by congressional declaration.

[Todd Erzin]

We've had a couple scrapes since then, so. Good and bad.

[Steve Dace]

So by the way, well, what about the Founding Fathers? Well, the first undeclared war that we ever fought was in 1798, and it was when the French began seizing our merchant ships. And so we, our navy went to fight against Them, we were just instant. They just instantly were dispatched. I think that would have been President Jefferson, in fact, in 1798 would have done that. And then it was President Jefferson again with the launch of the Barbary War against the Muslims. That's what the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli are about. And they were seizing our ships as well. Right. So the guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence as president launched the first two undeclared congressional war actions in American history. So this has not been. You can't be more constitutional than the people who did the Constitution. That to me is almost a little bit like being nicer than God in a civic sense. Like you don't have to be nicer than God and you can't be more constitutional. I hear this against the.

[Todd Erzin]

I'd like to see us try for once, but we have no intention to.

[Steve Dace]

I hear this argument sometimes against the Convention of States. And I'm like, the people who wrote the Constitution put the article. They're the ones that wrote Article 5. They put it in the Constitution. You think you care more about the Constitution than the people who gave it to us, who are its architects, who put that provision in the Constitution itself. How can you care more about them than care about it than they do? Right, right.

[Todd Erzin]

Yeah.

[Steve Dace]

So President Jefferson was already launching wars without congressional declaration as instant actions to defend our interests. Right. So this is not a relatively new phenomenon whatsoever. It's been literally going on from the dawn of the Republic. In fact, you may not like that. I don't blame you if you don't. But that's a fact. All right. So we both agree legitimate authority, that's the easiest one probably on the list. Right. All right. But also keep in mind, at the time of Augustine, that was not the easiest one on this list. All right? That's why I was number two. Okay. I mean, empires rose and fall. Who's in charge of this city state? Who's running this faction? Who's in charge of this tribe? Right. I mean, things were a lot more mercurial in the 4th century than they are today.

[Todd Erzin]

Rome, a 700 year republic, had concerns about usurpers. Yes. Named Caesar.

[Steve Dace]

Yes, yes. All right, Right. Intention is criteria number three. All right. That the goal ultimately is to win the peace. Right. That peace through strength. In other words, that this is done to win the peace. It's not done out of vengeance. It's not done mainly or strictly for territory or for economic gain, but that it has a right intention in order to ultimately achieve some form of peace. Now, I would say throughout the Western tradition, we've probably struggled with this component more than any other because previous eras viewed the right intention of spreading our way of life. These were civilizations that were essentially savages by the Christian standard. They even were using those terms for, you know, several centuries of Christendom. And it was the right, it was, it was right to bring Christianity. The climactic scene of Apocalypto, for example, when they're. I think it's the, Is it the Aztecs in that film, if I recall right?

[Todd Erzin]

Is it the Aztecs or the Mayans?

[Steve Dace]

Aztecs. Mayans. Inca is one of those. And they're literally at the top of the temple doing the human sacrifices. And the next scene of the film, almost, almost like Mel Gibson's version of a Marvel post credit scene, is the Spanish conquistadors show up waving the cross and they're like, yeah, this stops now. We're not, we're not, we have an urban renewal program here and we're not doing this kind of thing anymore. And so many of the eras of Christendom following this viewed that as a right intention. Okay, yes. Even though it's not necessarily listed here. All right, so thoughts? Do we have a right intention here in trying to mitigate Iran's ability to spread its mayhem beyond its current borders?

[Todd Erzin]

I think this is where your long analysis of Trump on foreign policy comes into play. If there's one area where he deserves the most benefit of the doubt by displaying what his intentions are, hey, let's all just be groovy together. I don't really want to have to bomb you. You know, we have the power to do so. So here's the line. Don't cross it now. It's undeniable. We've been talking about it on the show on a regular basis. We just did today. An economic component, when you're talking about this oil rich environment, is obviously part of it. But hey, might I suggest an enter into evidence if this was our primary point of doing business? We're not doing it very well vis a vis Iran right now. How cheap's your gas, Steve? And everything else going right now? So I think it's a part of it. But I do think Trump's had the right intention, not only in the Middle east, not just with Iran, but pretty much writ large. He genuinely seems to be sinking, seeking new kinds of peace that heretofore others haven't even tried and, or if they've tried, they haven't been successful at. He's got a pretty decent record.

[Steve Dace]

That's a great point. I mean, and to further it, the fact that we do have this Arab alliance now, that view that their interests align with the Israelis more than Iran, that they are more willing to share this region now with the Israelis than they are Iran, I think that is confirmation of everything that you just said.

[Todd Erzin]

Yeah. And did anybody think for a second that it was right intention, the. The agreement that Obama made with Iran? Absolutely not. It was the opposite of right intention.

[Steve Dace]

All right, last resort. All right. Essentially all peaceful diplomatic alternatives are. They're exhausted, they can no longer be accessed. They've gotten absolutely nowhere. Think that it applies here?

[Todd Erzin]

I do, because there's certain parts of this and I go this relates to my argument in the first unjust cause there's certain arguments that you would make with a brand new enemy in a brand new war that you would have to go through and feel through. This has been asked and answered with Islam and it has been asked and answered with Iran.

[Steve Dace]

I don't even think I'll add to that. I mean, I just don't.

[Todd Erzin]

I mean, how many benefits are you going to give Iran?

[Steve Dace]

I don't know how you could possibly disagree with this. I mean, you'd have to have like a Ben Rhodes level, you know, fantasy view of the world to think that there were really any other, any other diplomatic options other than just sending more pallets of cash. We don't. So you wanted to send them billions of dollars in on pallets or spend billions of dollars in bullets. Which one? I mean, because those are really your only options here, Right?

[Todd Erzin]

Yeah. And the only.

[Steve Dace]

And that's assuming they're not taking the cash right off the pallets and sending them right to the enrichment uranium enrichment plants, you know, to help further their. Because they're clearly not using it to develop a welfare state for the Iranian people. Right. So. Yeah.

[Todd Erzin]

And as you've argued, one thing that made you interested in this more than you would have been otherwise is the potential, the upheaval in the streets. So as a last resort, how much time do we have to wait to see if the new man steps into the breach? I think that's reasonable to discuss philosophically, but as we know experientially, it doesn't seem to be coming anytime soon. So what. What were we waiting for? Maybe they knew all along that wasn't going to happen.

[Steve Dace]

The next one here, I think is the, is the, these two are the

[Todd Erzin]

hardest ones coming up.

[Steve Dace]

Yeah. For different reasons. I think the one coming up now is the hardest one just on its face to answer, okay, reasonable hope of success. In other words, unless it's an immediate self defense situation, right? Enemy starts dropping soldiers in your, in your neighborhood, Red dawn style, you're not thinking of, well, what's the plan? You're, you know, lock and load. We have to, we're saving ourselves, we're acting out of self defense. Barring that, okay, then, then if you're going to create more carnage than has already been done to you or you're worried may be done to you, then you've got to justify that. It'll be successful. It'll win the piece that you want. Otherwise you just did this for nothing. You made it worse. I, This, I think is the hardest one to answer because it goes back to what we said last hour. Is the end in sight here? Do we even know? Do we even know? How do we get to that? See here, because here's the thing. Reasonable hope of success, given the advantages we have over them, given in every way, shape or form, should be an easy box to check.

[Todd Erzin]

Yes.

[Steve Dace]

But here's the problem and it goes back to what I said before. We all have PTSD about our long adventurisms and meanderings in this part of the world. We have a myriad. It is more likely that it is more likely that Gandhi would be, would, would be, would, would, would be, would feel at home in today's Dallas than Sam Houston would. We have some problems here of an existential nature. If you get where I'm going with this, okay, Gandhi's gonna, Gandhi's gonna see more cousins here than Sam Houston at this point. We've got some real problems here on our end. And that means the people do not have the stomach it takes to use the absolute amphibious, all powerful show of force it would take to remove this regime from the face of the Earth. We just don't, we don't have the resolve to do it. The desire to do it does not exist. And so that's why we're fighting this sort of asymmetrical. Well, we're bombing this to get rid of that. We're doing this right? And now it's about the Straits of Hormuz when nobody even knew what those were six weeks ago. The President is a salesman, right? And he understands, maybe the best in American history. And so he understands we're not ready to buy the undercoating, okay? So we got, he's trying to sell this thing piecemeal, all right? And a little bit at a time, okay? Because if we had the resolve. We'd. We'd wipe these people off the face of the earth in about 30 days. But then we'd be left with. Like we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan, for example. But then we'd be left with the mess of who's running the thing now. We don't. We can't do it. We don't want to do it. We don't have any opposition leaders in place to do it. Right. And that's where the mess comes in. The mess does not come in with putting the full. We could do this in 30 days and with minimal casualties on our side, probably, and wipe this entire regime off the face of the globe and have a parade and declare mission accomplished. But then who runs this place now? What's that look like? Isn't that what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq? Right, right. And see, this is actually now where maybe your Arab alliance starts to work against you because the Israelis and the Arabs are both in agreement. Thou shall not suffer an Ayatollah to live. They both agree on that. Okay. But something tells me the Arab alliance and the Israelis don't have a lot of, you know, it's not synchronicity on what they want a new Iran to look like. Right? Okay. A new Iran is not gonna. On the dead, on the same place in the Dead Sea where Sodom and Gomorrah once lived. Okay. Gonna have the largest Pride festival in human history. If the Arab countries have anything to say about it, they don't want that. Right. The Israelis would be like, cool, yeah, whatever. I mean, do you. You know, I mean, so that's now where your resolve gets weakened. It's not about. It's not about chloroforming the earth of the Iranian Revol. Revolutionary Guard. We could have done that and 50 times over by now and then twice on Sunday if you wanted already. Right. It's about the fact we don't know what happens next. If we do, nobody really knows. This president is the ultimate brander. If we had any form of opposition leader, don't you think if there was even somebody, like, he even had a slight chance of subduing this nation, Trump would be more inclined to, like, blow him way out of proportion and oversell it. Right? No names. There's nobody. There's nothing. We don't know what to do. And so our resolve is like, yeah, cool, we get rid of him and then what? We're. Then we're stuck with the tab. All right. We don't want that. And so this is why no one really knows what a reasonable hope of success is here, Todd. Cuz we're frankly not as a people willing to do what it would take to guarantee the reasonable hope of success. And so therefore this is an open question.

[Todd Erzin]

Well, to be frankly honest, we need to go past just a war in general or the Middle East. We need to talk about upcoming elections and what Trump's base thinks. And if going to war, whatever the reasons are, are ultimately a reason why people tap out. We lose Congress, Trump is utterly neutered for two years and they go back to jabbing us with illegal poison and transing our kids. And it's Virginia writ large. This is. Those are the calculations into doing this.

[Steve Dace]

So, hey, that's great that the Israelis and the Jordanians are getting along better than ever before. We have a civil war right here on our own land.

[Todd Erzin]

Right?

[Steve Dace]

Yeah. Yeah, finally. I think this one's tough to answer too, because I think it's just tough to answer in this era because of how devastating our technology is. Proportionality. I mean, it's almost hard for us to do anything of lethal force without testing the bounds of this nowadays because of just how devastating and how devastatingly lethal all of our technology and our Warcraft is nowadays. We're not firing cannonballs anymore. We're not sending legions of soldiers in with swords to fight hand to hand combat. At any moment. We can push buttons that just eliminates continents. I think this one just. It gets hard to know the answer to this because of the nature of warfare.

[Todd Erzin]

Now, this is where I agreed it was gonna be hard, but not up until this point.

[Steve Dace]

By the way, proportionality means does the level of destruction justified by the cause?

[Todd Erzin]

Yes, so far, yes. Once again, I just point you to the enemy. October 7th, Iran was happy to be a part of funding that. Yeah, this has absolutely been proportional so far. But again, we're talking about a so far that's gone longer than almost anybody wanted to. Trump supporters or not. And so the question becomes, what do we have to do proportionately from this point on? Again with Hormuz, etc. I like, I don't any notion of boots on the ground make people to run and hide.

[Steve Dace]

All right, let's give a final verdict here. So we have four definitive yeses and two we don't knows. So does that just. Is that just war for you, yes or no?

[Todd Erzin]

For me, yes.

[Steve Dace]

For me, yes. But the last two could change my answer in a matter of days or weeks. Go hard. Romans 8, 28. This is Steve Dace.