David Copperfield: Chapter 53

Summary

Storytime for Grownups with Faith Moore

Episode: David Copperfield – Chapter 53

Release Date: July 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores Chapter 53 of Charles Dickens’ David Copperfield, as host Faith Moore guides listeners through the emotional turning point in David’s life—the decline and approaching loss of Dora, his “child-wife.” The episode also features a substantial introductory discussion addressing listener correspondence on previous chapters, focusing on pivotal character arcs, moral quandaries, and Dickens’s literary techniques. The tone is warm, insightful, and deeply engaged with both the text and the community of listeners.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Faith’s Return and Community Engagement

• Announcement: Faith returns from a brief absence, updating listeners about upcoming planned absences and thanking her audience for their patience and letters.
• Listener Letters: The intro is extended to accommodate reading and reflecting on listener letters about earlier chapters, highlighting the podcast’s interactive and inclusive spirit.

2. Recap of Chapter 52 (Uriah Heep’s Downfall) [06:12–08:29]

• Plot Recap: Mr. Micawber, aided by Traddles, exposes Uriah Heep as a forger and thief. Uriah’s mask drops, revealing longstanding hatred for David and his manipulation of the Wickfield family.
• Micawber’s Heroism: Mr. Micawber's sacrifice and tenacity are celebrated; Miss Betsey offers the Micawbers passage to Australia for a new start alongside Mr. Peggotty and Emily.

3. Discussion of Listener Letters on Major Themes [08:36–18:23]

• David’s Inaction with Emily and Ms. Dartle:
  • Mixed Feelings: Some listeners were frustrated that David didn’t intercede on Little Emily’s behalf; others recognize the literary and symbolic necessity for Mr. Peggotty (the Christ-figure) to perform the rescue.
  • Faith’s Take: “I think what’s going on here is more a literary thing than an actual… what would you do in real life sort of thing.” [13:39]
• Ms. Dartle’s Morality:
  • Question of Villainy: Debate over whether she is truly evil or acting out of her own scars and grievances—Faith draws a distinction between her and genuinely villainous characters like Ms. Murdstone.
• Little Emily’s Redemption:
  • Differing Opinions: Some listeners forgive and empathize with Emily, seeing her contrition; others remain angry, especially on Ham’s behalf.
  • Quote: “A person can’t feel the magnitude of grace until they do feel unforgivable.” —Jessica [16:54]

4. Literary Techniques & Thematic Deep-Dive [24:47–28:34]

• Change and Passing Time:
  • Dickens’s Prose: The chapter is marked by poignancy as David reflects on time’s passage, change, and memory while revisiting places from his youth in Canterbury.
  • Quote: “Yet the bells, when they sounded, told me sorrowfully of change in everything… told me of their own age, and my pretty Dora’s youth…” —David (Read by Faith) [25:24]
• Culmination of Character Arcs:
  • As plotlines close, the full tapestry of David’s life—his experiences, relationships, and transformations—become more visible and deeply moving.

5. In-Depth Analysis of Chapter 53: “Another Retrospect” [39:32 onward]

• Dora’s Declining Health and Dawning Awareness:
  • David reflects on Dora’s long illness, their moments together, and her innocence and courage.
  • Dora makes a heartbreaking request to see Agnes, underscoring the depth and limits of her relationship with David.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “I want very much indeed to see her; I am certain of it.” —Dora (Read by Faith) [44:01]
  • “I am afraid I was too young. I don’t mean in years only, but in experience and thoughts and everything… I am afraid it would have been better if we had only loved each other as a boy and girl and forgotten it. I have begun to think I was not fit to be a wife.” —Dora (Read by Faith) [47:15]
• Heartbreaking Imagery:
  • Dora questions whether David truly misses her, and the metaphor of her “empty chair” recurs throughout the chapter, symbolizing loss and longing.
  • Gyp, Dora’s old dog, dies poignantly at David’s feet soon after her passing.
  • “He comes very slowly back to me, licks my hand, and lifts his dim eyes to my face. Oh Gyp. It may be never again. He lies down at my feet, stretches himself out as if to sleep, and with a plaintive cry is dead.” —David (Read by Faith) [52:02]

6. Reflections on Australia as a New Beginning [37:01–38:23]

• Historical Context: Faith explains that Australia, in Dickens’s time, represented a place for starting anew, free from old debts and social entanglements—a parallel to the American West—providing both opportunity and the chance to escape cycles of failure.

7. The Theme of Closure and Looking Ahead [38:33–39:20]

• Plot Resolution: With Uriah Heep’s unmasking and the arrangements for the Macawbers and Peggottys, the novel is moving toward resolution, closing old wounds, and preparing for David’s next chapter.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On David’s Inaction (Citing Listener Letters):
  “I think basically I covered it in the two pre-recorded episodes. But I wanted to kind of come back to some of the questions I asked because you guys wrote in to answer, because you guys are amazing.” —Faith [09:17]

• On the Literary Device of Waiting:
  “He had to wait for Mr. Peggotty, because Mr. Peggotty is metaphorically… the one to come in. I think this juxtaposition of Ms. Dartle berating her, and then Mr. Peggotty coming in with his forgiveness and unconditional love… that is what Dickens was going for.” —Faith [13:26]

• On Dora’s Growing Fragility and Grace:
  “And this is part of what we're coming to love about her, I think… She’s still completely herself, totally cheerful, and she doesn't want her illness to stop David or Miss Betsy from living their lives… She is putting on a brave face for David and Miss Betsy, and they are putting on a brave face for her.” —Faith [21:56, 24:35]

• Dora’s Self-Awareness Near Death:
  “I am afraid I was too young… not fit to be a wife.” —Dora [47:15] “But as years went on, my dear boy would have wearied of his child wife… It is better as it is.” —Dora [48:23]

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Important Timestamps

• [06:12] – Start of recap on Chapter 52 (Uriah Heep’s exposure)
• [09:23] – Faith begins reading listener letters on David’s role with Emily and Ms. Dartle
• [14:17] – Listener views on Ms. Dartle’s motivations discussed
• [16:54] – Two opposing listener views on forgiving Little Emily
• [18:23] – Transition to focus on Chapter 52’s significance and letter highlights
• [24:47] – Faith analyzes Dickens’s use of memories, passage of time, and emotional resonance
• [39:32] – Start of Chapter 53: Dora’s illness, conversations, and decline (full reading)
• [44:01] – Dora’s request to see Agnes
• [47:15] – Dora’s poignant self-reflection on her role as David’s wife
• [52:02] – Death of Gyp, Dora’s dog
• [53:04] – Wrap-up and invitation for further listener feedback

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Episode Tone & Style

Faith Moore’s narration is personal, conversational, and inclusive, blending literary analysis with warmth and empathy. Her engagement with listeners’ letters fosters a deep sense of community, while her readings from the text bring out Dickens’s trademark poignancy and wit. She balances explanations, reflections, and emotional high points with accessible language and gentle encouragement for listeners to share their own interpretations.

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Conclusion

This episode marks a shift in David Copperfield toward closure and the heartbreak of loss. Faith’s focus on community discussion makes classic literature approachable, while the careful unraveling of Dickens’s motifs around time, love, forgiveness, and growing up deepen the appreciation for the novel. The podcast remains an accessible and moving guide for both longtime Dickens fans and newcomers.

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To participate in the conversation or offer your own insights, Faith encourages listeners to visit her website (faithkmoore.com/contact) or use the show notes links.

Transcript

[Faith Moore]

Hello and welcome to Storytime for Grown Ups. I'm Faith Moore and this season we're reading David Copperfield by Charles Dickens. Each episode I'll read a few chapters from the book, pausing from time to time to give brief explanations so it's easier to follow along. It's like an audiobook with built in notes. So brew a pot of tea, find a cozy chair and settle in. It's story time.

[Listener/Guest]

Hello.

[Faith Moore]

I'm back.

I'm so happy to be back with you guys. I've been getting all of your emails and wishing that I had gotten them before, but we're going to talk about everything today. I have lots and lots to talk about.

This intro is going to be a

little bit long, I think, because I want to come back to some of the things from the chapters that we missed. And I also want to talk to you, of course, about chapter 52. And I'm so glad that I am not away to talk about chapter 52 that I was able to get your questions and comments and read them and that we can talk together in real time. Because chapter 52 was a fantastic chapter, I thought, and I'm so glad to

be here for it.

I do want to let you know

that there will be another chunk of

time that I am away and it's not that long from now.

So I'm here now. I will be here for the next

episode and then the following three episodes I will be gone. But then that's it. Then I will be back for the

whole rest of the book.

But we are going away for one more trip. We're going to visit some family that we don't usually get to see. So we're going on kind of a longer trip this time. And I'm really looking forward to the trip. I'm looking forward to seeing my family. But also, also I am sad that it means that I'll have to skip these episodes in real time.

But of course they will be arriving

into your podcast player at exactly the time that they normally would. And that's why I choose to pre record them. And I do appreciate your patience and your understanding during the summertime because things get kind of crazy, kind of different in the summer. And I do prioritize being home with my kids and I have tried to kind of organize everything and organize my other work and all of that so that we can read this wonderful book. And I'm so glad that we are. I'm so glad that we're reading this together and I wouldn't have it any other way and I really appreciate your understanding as I have to do some more pre recorded episodes.

But that is not now.

Today I am here, the next time I am here. So let's enjoy that while we can. And I promise that after this next trip I will be back for the duration of the book, which is coming to a close.

I mean not quite quite we're, but we're definitely in the end. We've got I think 11 chapters including

this one to go. So of all the chapters, I mean There are 64 total. We've read 52 so far.

So we are definitely at the end or nearing the end of this story,

which is really kind of bittersweet. It's been an amazing journey and I'll

talk more about that as we get

even closer to the end. But I. I have loved reading this with you and I'm so happy to still be doing that.

So, so a couple of announcements that

I want to make and then we will get into the various book related things that we need to talk about. Coming back to the two chapters that I was gone for and then talking about chapter 52.

But we have time because actually this chapter, chapter 53 is quite short.

It's one of the shorter chapters so it will all even out I hope. But we have a lot to do.

So just a quick announcement is I

wanted to mention a substack that I

recently learned about and I learned about

it because it's a substack that one

of our listeners does, but it also

mentioned Storytime for Grown Ups and I was very honored to be mentioned on

it because I took a look at it and it's really, really lovely and I recommend it. I think a lot of you will be interested. It's called Fancy Little Corner. It's on substack and it's about the connection between literature and fashion and it's

really beautiful, really interesting. And the very first post talks about Storytime for Grown Ups and Pride and Prejudice. So I think that you might enjoy

it if you're interested. So I've put a link in the

show notes in the description of this episode to that substack. If you're on Substack and you're interested

in checking that out and I hope that you will.

I have really enjoyed taking a look.

So that's one thing to tell you about.

I am working on scheduling the next tea time date over in our online community, the drawing room, and I will have that for you in the next episode. I will let you know when that is. But if you are interested in joining

us for Tea Time, either this time

or in the future.

Future.

And you're not yet a member of the drawing room, or you are, but

you're not yet Landed Gentry and you'd like to join Tea Time, this is a good time to sign up or change your membership. And you can do that by going

into the show notes and clicking the link that's there. You'll learn more and then you can sign up if you want to. So this is a good time to do that. And I will get back to you next episode with the date of July's Tea Time.

Other than that, all the usual things. Please subscribe. Please tap the five stars.

Please leave a positive review.

Please tell all your friends. Scroll into the Show Notes, check out

all those links, see if you want

to pick up some merch.

There's a tip jar. If you don't want to join the membership options and the online community but you would like to support the show financially. I always really appreciate that. So that's there. So scroll into the Show Notes and check out everything that is there. Okay, enough of that.

Let's get into this. So let's remind ourselves what happened in chapter 52. Then I'll take a couple of minutes

to kind of get circle back around to some of the things that you guys brought up that I didn't while we were while I was away.

And then we will talk about chapter

52 and then we will read chapter 53. So, okay, a lot to do, but that's the agenda. So here is the recap. Okay, so where we left off, the

time that Mr. Macawer stated for David and Traddles and Ms. Betsy to meet with him and hear his secret arrives. But Ms. Betsy says she's got to stay behind with Dora, who's still an invalid. But Dora assures everyone that she'll be fine and that she couldn't bear it if they missed this meeting. So they leave her on her own and they go off to Canterbury. There they meet up with Mr. Micawber, who tells them to come to Mr. Wickfield's house and implies that he has been writing back and forth with Traddles,

who knows more about this than David does.

They arrive at the house and they see Uriah, who seems upset to see them but tries to be his usual humble self. Agnes comes in and David can tell that she's exhausted and agitated. Traddles brings Uriah's mother into the room. Uriah tells Mr. Micawber to leave, but he refuses and begins to read a letter that he's written. In the letter, he says in his macabre like way that he has proof that uriah has cheated Mr. Wakefield's clients out of their money and made it look like it was Mr. Wickfield's doing. He has then used that to hold over Mr. Wickfield and get him to

rely more and more on Uriah.

He has also forged Mr. Wickfield's signature on many occasions and has used that to have the firm place solely in his name and to have the house and possessions turned over to him. Uriah's mask of humbleness completely falls and he reveals that he has hated David

all along and only wanted to get ahead.

And Traddles explains that he is now Mr. Wakefield's lawyer and has power of attorney. He shows that Mr. Macawer has gotten hold of Uriah's books and they have

all of the proof that they need to arrest him.

So they give him the choice of going to jail or of reversing everything

he's done and giving back all the money.

Miss Betsy flies at Uriah and demands her money back, saying that it was actually Mr. Wickfield, or rather Uriah, who invested it poorly. But she didn't tell anyone that because she didn't want to out Mr. Wickfield or upset Agnes. But now that she knows it was Uriah, she wants it all back. Uriah says he has to think about it all and Traddles says that's fine, but he must be confined to his

room and Mr. Dick is left to guard him.

Agnes goes back to tend to her father and Traddles stays behind to deal with the fallout.

David and Ms. Betsy go back to Mr. Macawer's house with him to witness

his reconciliation with Mrs. Macawer. Ms. Betsy says that she would be happy to give them some money since Mr. Micawber has done such a wonderful thing. And Mr. Macawer says that he wouldn't take a gift, but he would take a loan. Ms. Betsy says that's fine and suggests that maybe the family should go to Australia. Australia with Mr. Peggy and little Emily. They decide this is a great idea

and they prepare to leave.

Okay, so like I said, I want to start by just coming back to basically three issues that came up in

chapters 50 and 51, which are the chapters that we read while I was away.

And really what I want to do

is just read you a few letters.

I don't want to talk for too

long because basically what I'm hoping to do is just Kind of let you in on what I already know, which is kind of what the general consensus out there is because I know you guys like to know and it's not fair if I don't share it with you because I get to do it and I love it, but I want you to know about it too. So I'm going to read some letters. I'm going to sort of comment after each chunk of letters, but I'm not really going to go into anything because

I think basically I covered it in

the two pre recorded episodes. But I wanted to kind of come

back to some of the questions I

asked because you guys wrote in to answer because you guys are amazing. So thank you for doing that.

And also to just kind of let

you know what I issues came to the fore for you guys when you were listening to those chapters. And I think there were basically three things. The first was about when David was listening to Ms. Dardle kind of berate Emily. And a lot of you wanted to know why David didn't go in and stop Ms. Dardl.

And some of you were really angry at him for that and some of you actually understood.

And so I want to read to you about that. The second issue that I want to talk about is basically the question of

Is Ms. Dartle evil?

Do we hate her? Is she just completely evil?

Or can we understand where she's coming from? And the third one is do we forgive little Emily?

So let's first just talk about David and Ms. Darnell.

David kind of not going in and

waiting for Mr. Peggety.

I want to read you four letters

that I got about that.

So here's the first one. It comes from Michaela Jackson.

I hope I'm saying that first name right. I'm sorry if I'm not.

She says, just finished chapter 50. I was shouting at David the whole time to step in and defend Emily. Rosa was such a poisonous snake.

Forget Mr. Peggotty coming in, David, do something.

[Listener/Guest]

Ah.

[Faith Moore]

The second one comes from Amanda B.

She says the Christian imagery I had in my mind while reading this chapter was of the courtroom scene, Satan, Rosa, our accuser, saying all the things we have done wrong, etc. I loved David's line, will he come? Don't we all feel like that? And then just when it seems impossible, Jesus, Mr. Peggoty is right there with forgiveness and the loving embrace for Emily.

Okay, pass the tissues.

The third one comes from tj. TJ says I can't be the only one who kind of hated David during this chapter. I'm Sorry, but I didn't think it

was my right to find her.

Is not an adequate excuse to just, say, stand outside a door while someone heaps emotional abuse on someone you claim to love. And the last one comes from Danielle Costa. She says, I really wanted to give

you my thoughts on chapter 50.

It was brilliant. Dickens kept us in suspense as Emily was being scolded by Ms. Dardle. In our 21st century world of instant everything, hitting the send button on a text without thought or impulsive responses. Over social media, we can be uncomfortable, impatient, and judgmental over David hanging back in the shadows. However, David was not supposed to be Emily's savior. Mr. Peggy had to be the one. Mr. Peggy is the Christ figure who looks for Emily all over Europe to rescue her from disaster, keeps her room for her at home, even has her old dress ready, clothing her with her original innocence. He has to be the one who does the final rescue. David knows this and wisely waits for the true savior. Of course, if Emily had been in physical danger, I have no doubt David

would have stepped in.

In. But he waits.

I love that Dickens did that. Okay, so as you can see, mixed

feelings about David standing there.

I think my take is that, yeah,

it's hard to listen to. It's hard to read that and see David kind of just standing there, not

going in, not protecting Emily from Ms. Dardle's abuse. But at the same time, I do

agree with the people who are saying

that it just wasn't his job. It wasn't his right. You know, he doesn't have the right to be the one to go in and save her. It's Mr. Peggotty that has been searching

for her all this time, and he

needs to be the one that comes in. And I think, metaphorically, the way that people were saying in those letters, metaphorically,

he is the one. So I actually think really what's going on here is it's kind of a literary device so that, yes, in real

life, you would want him to go

in and stop Ms. Dardle, but as

a literary device or a kind of conclusion of a metaphor, I think he

had to wait, and I think he had to wait for Mr. Peggotty, because Mr. Peggotty is metaphorically and kind of in. In the legend and the fairy tale that we have been spinning out for all this time, I think he had

to be the one to come in. And I also think, you know, this juxtaposition of Ms. Dardle berating her and

then Mr. Peggotty coming in with his

forgiveness and unconditional love.

I think that is kind of what Dickens was going for there.

So I think, you know, give David

a little bit of grace, because I think what's going on here is more a literary thing than an actual kind of, what would you do in real life? Sort of thing.

So that's my take, but I wanted

to read you those letters.

The next issue to talk about is Ms. Dardle herself. Because I have said.

I've said in the drawing room, and I think I said on here, too,

I have said that I actually have

some sympathy for Ms. Darling Dardle. I don't think that what she said was okay. I don't think it was right to berate Emily like that or anything at all. But I don't actually think that she's evil.

So I wanted to read you three

letters from you guys so you guys could get a sense of what you are thinking about Ms. Dardle.

The first one comes from Julie Spike. She says the contrast in character between Mr. Peggy and Rosa Dartle is stark. What a jealous, evil woman with a dark heart. Mr. Peggotty is a righteous man full of grace and love for Emily. The second one comes from Tara Lewis. She says, you said at tea time

or on Chapter 49's intro that you didn't think of Ms. Dardle as a

villain in the way you think of Ms. Murdstone and others. I just have never disagreed with you so much.

Do you still feel that way after chapter 50? Were you pulling our leg to keep people guessing? Or maybe you thought we were giving spoilers? The last one comes from Ben moser.

He says Ms. Dardle permanently bears Steerforth's opinion of her in the form of the wound she has on her face. She intensely jealous of Emily because Steerforth is willing to have relations with a person of lower class, but not with her.

Okay, so just to say very quickly,

my opinion here is that it's not

that I don't think what Ms. Dardle is doing is wrong. I do think it's wrong.

But I get it. And that's why I kind of think she's not evil. I understand that she's jealous. She's let her jealousy take her over, and that's wrong. But she is actually wronged. She has been wronged by Steerforth, who, it seems like, sort of led her on. He seems like he made her think that maybe he was going to marry her. And then he runs off with Little Emily. And Ms. Dardle just can't understand it. And it's true what Ben says. You know, she is permanently scarred by Steerforth, and that probably has made it hard for her to find someone else who wants to marry her in this

kind of society where people don't really get to know each other very well before marriage.

And so your looks are kind of important. And so, you know, she has a legitimate grievance, Whereas someone like Ms. Murdstone, she doesn't. She just showed up in David's life and was horrible to David and to

Clara and to everybody.

And kind of for no reason, nobody did anything to her. So I kind of feel like Ms. Murdstone is a villain. Ms. Dardle is acting in a wrong way. She's behaving very badly. But I actually see where she's coming from. And in a way, I feel feel for her.

And that's why I don't see her the same way as I see some of the other villains in the book. So that's just my two cents about that.

I then want to just read two comments about Emily. And I don't really need to talk

about this much because I think I

talked about it in the episodes, but

I wanted to give you some perspectives from you guys so that you know what's going on out there in Storytime for Grownups Land.

So the first one comes from Jessica. She says, little Emily. I heard some comments that she seemed selfish or why wouldn't she know Mr. Peggy would forgive her? Little Emily, humble to me, yes, she was seduced and did make mistakes. But when the evil Ms. Rosa Dardle is cutting her with her words, Emily stands there, head down, taking it. I think Emily feels unforgivable. This makes the story more beautiful. A person can't feel the magnitude of grace until they do feel unforgivable. I love little Emily and what she brings to the story. I had tears in my eyes when Mr. Peggy picked her up and walked

out of the room.

And the other one comes from Sarah F. She says, wow, chapter 51 left me even more angry at Emily on Ham's behal half than when she originally left. He has not only lost her, but

now loses his father figure because of her. So again, like I said, I. I was correct. There are these two opinions out there.

Some of you feel that Emily is

contrite, that she's very sorry, that she

understands that she's done wrong, and now

she's going to just sort of take

whatever comes to her.

And for that, you kind of feel

for her and forgive her. And some of you are very angry

with her, particularly for what she did with him.

So both of those are out there

and in your letters. And so I wanted to just give you a taste of that. Okay. I think that wraps up the episodes that I was away for. So let's now get into chapter 52, this chapter where Mr. Macabre takes Uriah down.

And, you know, I'm sorry again that

this intro is going so long. It's going to be probably one of the longest intros that we do, but I wanted to come back to those other chapters.

And like I said, this. This chapter coming up is short, so

it's going to be okay. And I do want to spend some time now talking about chapter 52. I have two comments that I want to read, and then we'll talk.

So the first one comes from Harini Devolapalli.

I hope I'm saying that last name correctly. I'm sorry if I'm not.

Harini says, genius. Dickens did it.

The way Dora convinced Aunt Betsy to

go in the beginning of the chapter made my heart cry for her. I am liking Dora more now and can relate how someone who deeply cares tries to convince others that everything will be okay, even though they may know

it may not be.

And the second one comes from Debbie Rudin. She says, I feel like Dora, who said when David and Aunt Betsy got back, they could tell her the whole story and it would take a week for her to understand it all. I understood so little of what Mr. Micawber wrote and read in his letter, I would have to look up so many words. The man is a master of vocabulary, but I got the gist of it. Mr. Macawer got the goods on Uriah and Uriah is up a creek without a paddle. Uriah's reaction and how his true nature is emerged. His mother's reaction and how Uriah treated her. How he kept turning back to David,

who actually was not much more than an observer.

How Agnes was so overcome with despair and relief at the same time. But mostly the joy and satisfaction I felt at Uriah's fall.

It was awesome.

My new hero is Traddles. He was so calm, confident and capable, it took my breath away. I never saw him like that.

Wow.

Why would Aunt Betsy send the Macabre to Australia? How will that help them? Does she think it will help Mr. Peggy and Em?

How? Okay, so like I said, I am so glad that I got to be back for this chapter. I would have been so sad if Uriah got taken down while I was away.

As Debbie says, this chapter is so satisfying. Uriah Heep has been like this vulture

or like a vampire bat kind of

hanging over the people that we love for such a long time. And every time we check back up on him, he's gotten someone or something else in his clutches. I mean, first it was becoming Mr.

Wakefield's law partner, then it was kind

of taking over the firm in all but name, then it was the threat of possibly marrying Agnes, then it was essentially taking over the whole house and property. He was kind of like a swarm

of locusts or something like devouring every

last inch of this family. And there was nothing anyone could do to stop him because he was doing it with the consent of Mr. Wickfield.

Although of course he was manipulating Mr. Wickfield via his alcoholism.

But even so, there was no proof that this wasn't what Mr. Wakefield wanted. So it's been awful and we've talked a lot about how awful. But it's been awful watching Uriah take over.

Which is why this chapter, chapter 52 is so satisfying.

Because thanks to Mr. Macawber and also to Traddles, Uriah has now been outed as a forger and a thief and the all out kind of baddie that he is and its glory.

But before we dig into that fully,

I want to just address Harini's point about Dora, because I do think that every time Dora shows up, we like her a little bit more. And now that her health really seems to be failing, I think we are all possibly regretting our earlier wish that

Dickens would just sort of kill her

off because, and we talked about this before, but I think it would be

really stupid sad if she died.

Not just because it would devastate David, but because we see now that she is actually a very sweet, very gentle soul who just isn't really suited to adult life. I have gotten several letters lately comparing her to Mr. Dick and I actually think that's a fair comparison. In many ways she is someone who means well, is sweet and kind, is cheerful in the face of adversity, isn't really able to live a full adult life, but is aware of that and is sorry for it and she wants to do the best that she can. And I think Dickens has succeeded in making us really truly care for her

and like her, even if we still acknowledge that she isn't really the wife

that we wanted originally for David and

things aren't looking good for Dora health wise. Here's what David says.

He says, ah, how easily I carried Dora up and down stairs now. Meaning both that she still isn't able to walk for some Reason and also that she's losing weight or something. She's becoming more and more frail. But, and this is part of what

we're coming to love about her, I

think she's still completely herself, totally cheerful. And she doesn't want her illness to stop David or Miss Betsy from living their lives. She doesn't want them to stop everything and like, devote themselves to her career. And she sends them off to Canterbury to see what Mr. Micawber wants to tell them because she knows it's important to them and she doesn't want to be the cause of them missing it. Here's what she must go. I shall tease you till you let me have my own way about it. I shall lead my naughty boy such a life if he don't make you go. I shall make myself so disagreeable and so will Jip. You'll wish you had gone like a good thing forever and ever so long if you don't go.

[Listener/Guest]

And.

[Faith Moore]

And what I love about this is that it is both very childish, very silly and very astute. She's saying in her sort of good natured way, she's saying, please don't treat me like an invalid. Please don't treat me like a child. I know I am a child, I know I am an invalid, but let's all pretend that I'm not so that

you don't have to worry about me

and you don't have to stop your life on my account. And there's this really heartbreaking moment where she says, why shouldn't you both go? I am not very ill indeed, am I? And then Miss Betsy says, why? What a question. And David says, what a fancy. And you get the sense that they

are kind of all deluding themselves.

It's not totally clear, I think, whether Dora is aware of how ill she is. But I mean, she's not like a total idiot.

She can see that she can't walk

and she must be feeling ill, at least somewhat. So my read on this is that she is putting on a brave face for David and Miss Betsy and that

David and Miss Betsy are putting on

a brave face for her. Although that is just my read on it. But either way it's heartbreaking and it makes us love her even more, I think, and to feel in the end

[Listener/Guest]

that we don't want her to go.

[Faith Moore]

And then we get all of a sudden, in this chapter, this really startlingly beautiful piece of writing, all about time and how things change no matter what you do. And even when you revisit old places, they are changed. And nothing can ever really be the same again. It's when David goes back to Canterbury, because this is the place where the latter half of his youth was spent going to school at Dr. Strong's and living in the house with Agnes and Mr. Wickfield. And we know from things that he has said before that he views this time as a kind of wonderful, idyllic

time in his life. And he says so here's that beautiful passage he says.

Yet the bells, when they sounded, told me sorrowfully of change in every everything, told me of their own age and my pretty Dora's youth, and of the many never old who had lived and loved and died while the reverberations of the bells had hummed through the rusty armor of the Black Prince hanging up within, and motes upon the deep of time had lost themselves in air as

circles do in water.

I'm so beautiful. And I think this is a theme which is important as we near the end of the book, because like we were saying before, we are now in the part of the book where Dickens is reading, wrapping up all the many plot threads that he has spun out for us. And in doing that, there's a way in which we are kind of revisiting all the various stages of David's life, because these plot threads have been with us for so long, and that means that David has been different versions of himself at different parts of them. So when we wrap one up, we are reminded of all the stages of his life that he lived while the plot thread spun out. For example, the plot thread about little

Emily, it began on the beach in

Yarmouth when Emily And David were 5 years old. And it continued on through David's adolescence, his friendship with Steerforth, his young adulthood when Emily became engaged to Ham and then ran off with Steerforth and on into his adulthood when he was helping Mr. Peggotty to find Emily and when she was eventually found. And this plot thread about Uriah is exactly the same. David first met Uriah when he was 10 years old and came to live

in the house with Mr. Wickfield and Agnes.

And he has encountered Uriah at all those other stages of his life. And. And each time, Uriah has revealed more

and more of his kind of evil plans to David.

And so now, at the culmination of it all, when he's finally taken down and vanquished, David returns to the house where he first met Uriah and where

he first met Agnes.

And it's impossible for him, and also for us, I think it's impossible not to Think of his childhood there and all the many things that have happened to him from that time until this, this time. And at the end of the chapter, after Mr. McCawber has completed this truly

kind of virtuoso performance, which I'll talk about more in a moment.

When he's done that and he's brought Uriah down, David draws together all the stages of his life. He says, as I parted hurriedly from the dear girl to whom I owed so much and thought from what she had been saved. Perhaps that morning, her better resolution notwithstanding, I felt devoutly thankful for the miseries of my younger days which had brought me to the knowledge of many Mr. Macawer. Okay, so his early life as, like a poor factory worker, it brought him into contact with Mr. Macawer, who has now come through for him spectacularly and saved the girl who is and always has been David's angel from having to

marry the man who has been, throughout

his life, a kind of enemy that David himself wasn't able to vanquish. So it's really beautiful, I think, the way that Dickens is bringing all of this together and I think this blending of past and present and that sense that it's all in some way with us but also in some way inaccessible, I think that will continue to be

a theme throughout the rest of the book.

So that's something that we can come back to. But now let's take a look at

what actually happened and what it all means.

So, like Debbie says, the actual particulars of what Mr. Macawer has discovered and

exposed about Uriah, they don't really matter.

Suffice it to say that over the course of About a year, Mr. Macawer has been keeping, like, detailed notes and collecting evidence about what Uriah has been doing. And it turns out that what he's been doing is forging Mr. Wakefield's signature, making bad loans, stealing money, making it look like Mr. Wakefield is swindling people and making Mr. Wickfield believe that he did swindle people in a kind of drunken confusion such that Mr. Wickfield has to allow Uriah to take over the books.

[Listener/Guest]

And.

[Faith Moore]

And, but the upshot of it all,

and this is really the only part

that matters, the upshot of it all is that Mr. Macawer has provided evidence that proves that Uriah has actually committed crimes. And because of that, it means that he can be arrested and taken to jail if he doesn't give back everything

that he stole and then leave the family alone.

So they've now got leverage against him. Which is essentially the end of his

reign of terror over the Wakefield family or whatever. Whatever. So hooray.

[Listener/Guest]

Right?

[Faith Moore]

And Uriah, faced with all of this, he finally lets his humble mask fall. And what's under it is all the hatred and the malice and the evil intentions that we've always known he had but couldn't actually pin on him. And what we learn is that Uriah hates David. You know, even though David had nothing

at all to do with these revelations

that are coming out and it was all Mr. Macawer's work, work. Uriah automatically thinks that it was David's doing because. And if you go back to those very first Uriah chapters, you'll see that this was there from the beginning. But Uriah has always been jealous of David and always worried that David would take the things that Uriah wanted for himself. Uriah has always seen David as the man that he, Uriah, wanted to be. He thought that David wanted to be Mr. Wickfield's clerk. He thought David wanted to become Mr. Wickfield Guild's partner. He thought David wanted to marry Agnes all along. He has assumed that everything he wanted, David wanted too, and he has hated him for it.

And of course David hasn't wanted any of those things.

David was most of the time completely

oblivious to Uriah's jealousies.

Uriah was basically fighting an enemy that just wasn't there. But we see now that his hatred for David as his rival has grown into a kind of obsession. He says, oh ho, this is a conspiracy. You have met here by appointment. You are playing booty with my clerk, are you, Copperfield?

Now take care.

You'll make nothing of this. We understand each other, you and me. There's no love between us.

You were always a puppy with a

proud stomach from your first coming here. And you envy me my rise, do you? None of your plots against me. I'll counter plot you macabre you to you presently. So for all of his talk of their being friends and him liking David and him forgiving David for hitting him and all of this, Uriah has actually been simmering with loathing for David. And it's all coming out now. We've known all along that the humble thing was an act, but we see

how deep now of an act that it was.

It was all always in service of rising as high as he could rise, becoming as rich as he could become. And, and I think at this point

this was maybe his foremost motive.

But it was also in service of taking everything he thought David wanted and making it his and Uriah's transition from

his humble mask to his true self. It's really horrifying. I think it always makes me think of like one of those horror movies where like a monster or an alien or something has been taking on human form but then suddenly like bursts out of the body with all of its tentacles writhing or something.

Or if you want a Disney reference, it's like the scene in the Little Mermaid where Ursula the sea witch has

disguised herself as the beautiful Vanessa, but then her true tentacles burst out and everyone can see what she truly is. So Uriah is like that to me. It's really horrific.

And all of this kind of wakes David up a little, I think. I've gotten letters from time to time

from some of you saying that you

were frustrated with David for not doing anything to save Agnes from Uriah. You know, some of you even wanted him to marry Agnes just to make it so that Uriah couldn't marry her. And there's a way in which there wasn't really anything David could do. But I think it's true that he didn't until this moment really put together

what a horror movie villain Uriah was

and how close he's been all this time to the angelic Agnes.

Here's what he says.

But when his eyes passed on to Agnes and I saw the rage with which he felt his, his power over her slipping away and the exhibition in their disappointment of the odious passions that had led him to aspire to one whose virtues he could never appreciate or care for. I was shocked by the mere thought of her having lived an hour within sight of such a man. And so when you look at him like this, it actually is truly heroic what Mr. Micawber has done. Because in amongst all of his ridiculous

verbiage and his hilarious sallying forth with

the ruler or whatever, Mr. Macabre has actually completed like a year

long undercover job, you know, at great peril to his job and therefore his financial security.

He has kept tabs on Uriah such that he is now able to completely bring him down. And he's done it. Even though he knows that he will now be penniless again and he'll have no way to care for his family. This was the first steady paying job that Mr. Macawer has had in all the time that we've known him. And he gave it up for the

good of truth, for the good of

Agnes and for the good of David, who he knows care about the people who were being wronged. And I really think that's wonderful. And I think it redeems him for all of the times that the delusional way he has about money has inadvertently hurt the people that we care about. And like Debbie says, we have to

give a big shout out to Traddles as well.

And in the same way that David

is kind of waking up suddenly to how horrifying it is that Agnes has

been living all this time with the

monstrous Uriah, David is also, in this

moment, waking up to the fact that his friend Tradles is actually a man of substance and worth.

You know, he's known that he's a loyal friend.

He's known that he's a good friend, but he has kind of seen him

as a sort of bumbling guy, not particularly good at anything.

And he suddenly sees that, in fact, he is a man of worth and diligence. Here's what he says. I cannot help avowing that this was the first occasion on which I really did justice. Justice to the clear head and the plain, patient, practical good sense of my old schoolfellow.

And I think it's really great that Traddles gets to kind of be the hero here, in addition to Mr.

Macabre, because traddles really has been David's best and truest friend for a long while now. And he's been such a wonderful substitution for Steerforth. It's been a long time since we

were worried about David's friendship with Steerforth.

A long time since we worried that David might not be growing up into the kind of man that we wanted him to be. And that's because David gave up Steerforth in favor of Traddles, who is a far superior friend and a far superior man. And it's great to see him have

this moment in the sun.

But the other person that deserves a

shout out in this chapter is Miss Betsy.

You know, it almost gets lost in all of these revelations, but it comes out in all of Mr. Macawer's revelations that Ms. Betsy didn't actually lose her money by investing it herself. She lost it because, as she thought, Mr. Wickfield invested it badly, and she was protecting him and protecting Agnes by keeping that secret from everyone because she knew it would ruin Mr. Wakefield financially if it came out that he was behaving unscrupulously with people's money, and that would affect Agnes as well. So she just let the money go and she didn't tell anyone what happened to it, which is such a selfless and wonderful thing to do. But now that she knows that it

was Uriah who took her money. She wants it back.

And I love the way she lets Uriah have it. And I love that she trusts David

to be able to get the money

back for her now that she knows where it's gone. So I want to end by just

quickly answering Debbie's question about Australia and why everyone seems to think it's a good idea for the macabre to go to Australia on the same ship as

Mr. Peggotty and Emily and Mrs. Gummage, because this came up in the drawing room as well, and I just want to make sure that we're clear. So.

So Australia at this time was a lot like the American west in, like, the late 1800s in the sense that

it wasn't like a country under a centralized government. So you could kind of just show up, find some empty space, plonk yourself down and build a house or start a farm or whatever you wanted. So, you know, around this time, colonies were beginning to form which were ostensibly under British rule, but they were so far away that they basically governed themselves. But in general, it was just sort

of homesteads and farms and everyone was

very spaced out and there was just land for the taking.

You've probably heard of penal colonies in Australia which were sort of hard labor camps where British prisoners were sent as

a punishment, and those were there as well, although at the time that this

book was written, they were being phased out.

So the Macawvers and little Emily and

everyone, they're not going to a penal colony.

They are essentially striking out like pioneers

would have done in the American West.

So. So to answer Debbie's question, the reason that Miss Betsy thinks it might be a good place for the macabre is that it's far enough away that they

will truly be able to start again.

They are currently penniless, but if they work hard, they might be able to set up a homestead and have a farm or whatever, and they won't be subject to the kinds of situations that they're always getting themselves into in England, right?

Like taking out loans and not being able to pay their bills at inns and whatever.

There's none of that there. So the idea is, is that it would be a fresh start in a place where perhaps they won't make the

same mistakes as they have made here. But of course, maybe they still will. We don't know, but that's why she suggested it. So another plotline is wrapping up, right?

The Uraya plotline has been going on for ages now, and we've basically reached the end of it. There are still some details to hammer out.

I think we don't really know what

will become of Uraya.

We don't know if everyone can get

their money back or what will happen to Mr. Wilson Wickfield now. So there's still questions, but the main

issue, right, Uriah's takeover of the Wickfield family.

That has been resolved. So again, we are wrapping things up

one by one as we head to the finish line.

So what's next?

Right, well, there's only one way to find out, which is to keep reading,

which we absolutely must do now because I've been talking far too long.

This intro is now far, far longer than the chapter. And I am sorry about that, but I was so excited to be back with you. I wanted to make sure that we, that we covered everything and hopefully we have. So we're going to read now.

Please get in touch.

I will be here again for the next episode.

So please do send me all your questions and thoughts. It's faith k.moore.com. click on contact or scroll into the

show notes, find the link that's there and let me know what you're thinking and wondering about after this chapter.

All right, let's get started with chapter 53 of David Copperfield by Charles Dickens. It's story time. Chapter 53. Another retrospect. I must pause yet once again. O my child wife. There is a figure in the moving crowd before my memory, quiet and still, saying in its innocent love and childish beauty, stop to think of me. Turn to look upon the little blossom as it flutters to the ground. I do. All else grows dim and fades away. I am again with Dora in our cottage. I do not know how long she has been ill.

I am so used to it in

feeling that I cannot count the time. It is not really long, in weeks or months, months. But in my usage and experience it

is a weary, weary.

While they have left off telling me to wait a few days more, I have begun to fear remotely that the day may never shine when I shall see my child wife running in the sunlight with her old friend Gyp. He is, as it were, suddenly grown very old. It may be that he misses in his mistress something that enlivened him and made him younger anger. But he mopes, and his sight is

weak and his limbs are feeble, and

my aunt is sorry that he objects

to her no more, but creeps near

her as he lies on Dora's bed, she sitting at the bedside and mildly licks her hand. Dora lies smiling on us, and is beautiful and utters no hasty or complaining word.

She says that we are very good

to her, that her dear old careful

boy is tiring himself out.

She knows that my aunt has no sleep yet is always wakeful, active and kind. Sometimes the little bird like ladies come to see her.

And then we talk about our wedding

day and all that happy time. What a strange rest and pause in my life there seems to be. And in all life within doors and without. When I sit in the quiet, shaded, orderly room with the blue eyes of my child wife turned towards me and her little fingers twining round my hand, Many and many an hour I sit thus. But of all those times, three times come the freshest on my mind. It is morning, and Dora, made so trim by my aunt's hands, shows me

how her pretty hair will curl upon

the pillow yet, and how long and bright it is, and how she likes to have it loosely gathered in that net she wears. Not that I am vain of it. Now, you mocking boy, she says when I smile.

[Listener/Guest]

Because you used to say you thought it so beautiful. And because when I first began to think about you, I used to peep in the glass and wonder whether you would like very much to have a lock of it. Oh, what a foolish fellow you were,

[Faith Moore]

Dody, when I gave you one.

That was on the day when you

were painting the flowers I had given you, Dora.

And when I told you how much in love I was. Ah, but I didn't like to tell you, says Dora.

[Listener/Guest]

Then how I had cried over them because I believed you really liked me when I can run about again as I used to.

[Faith Moore]

Dody, let us go and see those

[Listener/Guest]

places where we were such a silly couple, shall we? And take some of the old walks and not forget poor papa.

[Faith Moore]

Yes, we will.

And have some happy days. So you must make haste to get well, my dear.

[Listener/Guest]

Oh, I shall soon do that.

[Faith Moore]

I am so much better.

You don't know it is evening and I sit in the same chair by the same bed with the same face turned towards me. We have been silent, and there is a smile upon her face. I have ceased to carry my light burden up and down stairs. Now she lies here all the day.

[Listener/Guest]

Dodie.

[Faith Moore]

My dear Dora, you won't think what

[Listener/Guest]

I am going to say.

[Faith Moore]

Unreasonable. After what you told me such a

[Listener/Guest]

little while ago of Mr. Wickfield's not being well. I want to see Agnesvery much. I want to see her.

[Faith Moore]

I will write to her, my dear.

[Listener/Guest]

Will you?

[Faith Moore]

Directly.

[Listener/Guest]

What a good kind boy, Dodi. Take me on your arm. Indeed, my dear, it's not a whim. It's not a foolish fancy. I want very much indeed to see

[Faith Moore]

her, I am certain of it. I have only to tell her so, and she is sure to come.

[Listener/Guest]

You are very lonely when you go downstairs now, Dora whispers with her arm about my neck.

[Faith Moore]

How can I be otherwise, my love,

when I see your empty chair?

[Listener/Guest]

My empty chair?

[Faith Moore]

She clings to me for a little while in silence.

[Listener/Guest]

And you really miss me, Dodie?

[Faith Moore]

Looking up and brightly smiling.

[Listener/Guest]

Even poor giddy, stupid me.

[Faith Moore]

My heart. Who is there upon earth that I

could miss so much?

[Listener/Guest]

Oh, husband, I am so glad, yet so sorry.

[Faith Moore]

Creeping closer to me and folding me in both her arms, she laughs and sobs and then is quiet and quite happy. Quite, she says.

[Listener/Guest]

Only give Agnes my dear love and tell her that I want very, very much to see her and I have

[Faith Moore]

nothing left to wish for except to get well again. Dora.

[Listener/Guest]

Ah, Dodie. Sometimes I think, you know, I always was a silly little thing. That that will never be.

[Faith Moore]

Don't say so, Dora. Dearest love.

Don't think so.

[Listener/Guest]

I won't if I can help it, Dodie. But I am very happy. Though my dear boy is so lonely by himself before his child wife's empty chair.

[Faith Moore]

It is night and I am with her still. Agnes has arrived, has been among us for a whole day and an evening. She, my aunt and I have sat with Dora since the morning. Altogether we have not talked much, but Dora has been perfectly contented and cheerful. We are now alone. Do I know now that my child wife will soon leave me? They have told me so. They have told me nothing new to my thoughts, but I am far from sure that I have taken that truth to heart. I cannot master it. I have withdrawn by myself many times to day to weep. I have remembered who wept for a parting between the living and the dead. I have bethought me of all that gracious and compassionate history. I have tried to resign myself and to console myself, and that I hope I may have done imperfectly. But what I cannot firmly settle in my mind is that the end will absolutely come. I hold her hand in mine. I hold her heart in mine. I see her love for me alive in all its strength. I cannot shut out a pale, lingering shadow of belief that she will be spared.

[Listener/Guest]

I am going to speak to you, Dodie. I am going to say something I have often thought of saying lately.

[Faith Moore]

You won't mind with a gentle look, mind, my darling, because I don't know

[Listener/Guest]

what you will think or what you may have thought. Sometimes perhaps you have often thought the same. Dodie, dear, I am afraid I was too young.

[Faith Moore]

I lay my face upon the pillow by her and she looks into my eyes and speaks very softly gradually as she goes on. I feel with a stricken heart that she is speaking of herself as past.

[Listener/Guest]

I am afraid, dear, I was too young. I don't mean in years only, but in experience and thoughts and everything. I was such a silly little creature. I am afraid it would have been better if we had only loved each other as a boy and girl and forgotten it. I have begun to think I was not fit to be a wife.

[Faith Moore]

I tried to stay my tears and to reply, oh, Dora, love as fit

as I to be a husband.

I don't know with the old shake

of her curls perhaps.

[Listener/Guest]

But if I had been more fit to be married, I might have made you more so too. Besides, you are very clever and I never was.

[Faith Moore]

We have been very happy, my sweet Dora.

[Listener/Guest]

I was very happy, very. But as years went on, my dear boy would have wearied of his child wife. She would have been less and less a companion for him. He would have been more and more sensible of what was wanting in his home. She wouldn't have improved. It is better as it is.

[Faith Moore]

Oh, Dora.

Dearest, dearest, do not speak to me so.

Every word seems a reproach.

No, not a syllable she answers, kissing me.

[Listener/Guest]

Oh, my dear, you never deserved it. And I loved you far too well to say a reproachful word to you in earnest. It was all the merit I had except being pretty or you thought me so. Is it lonely downstairs, Dodie?

[Faith Moore]

Very, very.

[Listener/Guest]

Don't cry.

[Faith Moore]

Is my chair there in its old place?

Oh, how my poor boy cries.

[Listener/Guest]

Hush, hush now. Make me one promise. I want to speak to Agnes. When you go downstairs, tell Agnes so and send her up to me. And while I speak to her, let no one come, not even aunt. I want to speak to Agnes by myself. I want to speak to Agnes quite alone.

[Faith Moore]

I promise that she shall immediately. But I cannot leave her for my grief.

[Listener/Guest]

I said that it was better as it is.

[Faith Moore]

She whispers as she holds me in her arms.

[Listener/Guest]

Oh, Dody, after more years you never could have loved your child wife better than you do. And after more years she would have so have tried and disappointed you that you might not have been able to love her half so well. I know. I was too young and foolish. It is much better as it is.

[Faith Moore]

Agnes is downstairs. When I go into the parlour and I give her the message, she disappears, leaving me alone with Gyp His Chinese house is by the fire, and he lies within it on his bed of flannel, querulously trying to sleep. The bright moon is high and clear as I look out on the night. My tears fall fast and my undisciplined heart is chastened. Heavily, heavily. I sit down by the fire, thinking with a blind remorse of all those secret feelings I have nourished since my marriage. I think of every little trifle between me and Dora, and feel the truth that trifles make the sum of life ever. Rising from the sea of my remembrance is the image of the dear child as I knew her first, graced by my young love and by her own

with every fascination wherein such love is rich.

Would it indeed have been better if

we had loved each other as a

boy and a girl and forgotten it? Undisciplined heart reply how the time wears, I know not until I am recalled by my child wife's old companion. More restless than he was, he crawls out of his house and looks at me and wanders to the door and whines to go upstairs. Not to night, Gyp, not tonight. He comes very slowly back to me,

licks my hand and lifts his dim

eyes to my face. Oh Gip.

It may be never again.

He lies down at my feet, stretches himself out as if to sleep, and with a plaintive cry is dead.

Oh, Agnes, look. Look here.

That face so full of pity and

of grief, that rain of tears, that

awful mute appeal to me, that solemn hand upraised towards heaven. Agnes, it is over. Darkness comes before my eyes and for a time all things are blotted out of my remembrance. Thank you so much for listening. I'd love to know what you thought of the chapters. Is there anything you'd like me to clarify? Did something particularly interest you? You please go to my website, faithkmore.com click on contact and send me your questions and thoughts. Or you can click on the link in the Show Notes to contact me.

I'll feature one or two of your

entries at the start of the next episode. Speaking of links, don't forget to take a look at the other links in the Show Notes.

You can learn more about me, check out our Merch store, or become a

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