"Monogamy" w/ Rostam

Summary

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StraightioLab – "Monogamy" w/ Rostam

Podcast: StraightioLab (Big Money Players Network & iHeartPodcasts)
Date: June 9, 2026
Hosts: George Civeris & Sam Taggart
Guest: Rostam (musician, producer, Vampire Weekend co-founder)

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Episode Overview

In this intellectually spiky yet delightfully campy episode, comedians George Civeris and Sam Taggart are joined by acclaimed musician/producer Rostam to scrutinize the winding roads of monogamy, gender roles, queer relationship norms, and the lingering cultural after-image of "indie hipster" America. The conversation swings between jokes, pop culture stanning, and honest explorations of relationships, community, and shifting values—anchored by Rostam’s unique experience straddling indie stardom and queer life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Group Dynamic & Queer Social Habits

• Zipolite Trip’s Group Chat ([06:16]): Rostam recalls a pre-pandemic getaway with friends to the Mexican beach town of Zipolite, noting the group’s chat persists even as couples have split or relocated.
  • "There's one couple that stayed together. There's one couple that didn't, but the group chat survives." – Rostam (06:33)
• The rare breed of "straight men with lesbian sensibilities" and their surprising appeal to women:
  • "They're actually kind of wonderful to be around." – Rostam (07:34)

2. Straight Relationships and the Mythos of the 'Lesbian Straight Guy'

• The hosts try to decode a certain strain of straight masculinity exuding 'lesbian energy.' Noting that despite being a "dream" partner type, most women still date more typical, less emotionally in-tune straight men (09:02).
• Awards for Dating? Discussing the struggles of straight women dating, George quips:
  • "It's so hard dating as a straight woman that they should have yearly award shows for it." (09:46)

3. Loveless Queer/Lesbian Relationships & Theories of Attachment

• Referencing author Torrey Peters, the hosts debate queer relationship tropes:
  • "Divorce is lesbian, but staying together forever and hating each other is gay guy." – (11:03)
• Rostam pushes back on relationship binaries, centering the importance of "secure attachment" over whether a couple is open or closed:
  • "There's monogamous couples who don't have secure attachment… it's like this couple that's very loyal but hate each other." – Rostam (11:45)

4. Monogamy, Non-Monogamy, and Cultural Binaries

([11:24–19:43])

• Discussion of how queer people, especially gay men, often feel compelled to represent/defend "a lifestyle" to straight audiences.
• The binary trap: you're either a strict monogamist or "poly," missing the "spectrums" of attachment, boundaries, and interaction.
• Heteronormative paranoia dissected via the "Mike Pence boundary test": Would you let your partner hug/kiss/accidentally kiss/kiss-while-drunk someone else?
  • "If you don't agree with Mike Pence, then you actually are on some part of the spectrum… you gotta slowly open the door to people seeing that their own views are actually somewhere on a spectrum that's maybe different than what they think." – Rostam (18:01)

5. Straight Internet and the Perception of Queer Relationships

• Sam notes viral internet discourse around gay men and non-monogamy, and the culture-clash that occurs when people from “quasi suburban Dallas” see “bicoastal gay” commentary online ([15:29–16:51]).
• Persistent stigma about HIV/AIDS in comment sections:
  • "People just commenting 'aids, aids…' Just fully. People that have never met a gay person maybe. Or just are fully old fashioned homophobic." – George (17:36)

6. American Icons: Flags and Cultural Symbols

([20:18–23:15])

• Rostam discusses conceptual struggles with American imagery in his new album, American Stories, and how America’s flag is endlessly recontextualized.
• The group lovingly roasts the ever-morphing pride flag:
  • "They keep adding stuff and it's going to look like an MIA album cover." – Sam (23:15)

7. Monogamy, Gender Roles & Driving in Straight Relationships

([49:34–54:57])

• Rostam introduces the question: who drives in a straight couple? For all three hosts, Dad was the default driver growing up, but exceptions abound.
• George jokes, “In both options, the man comes out on top. If the man is the one driving, that means he's in charge. If he's not...he's being driven.” (50:59)
• For queer couples, every household role is up for negotiation:
  • "Every single day, you have to wake up and reinvent the entire concept of being in a relationship because you have no gender roles to fall into." – George (51:42)

8. Cultural Nostalgia and the 'Indie Hipster' Era

([55:07–83:31])

• The crew gets meta reflecting on the 2010s, Lena Dunham's memoir, and the challenges of being a creative intertwined with friends/colleagues.
  • On "hipster":
    "Some people define as like, co-opting ethnic and gay trends…for someone who is both ethnic and gay, you can't really accuse me of being a hipster." – Rostam (56:18)
• Navigating professional boundaries among friends/collaborators:
  • "It's kind of like a muscle. You have to learn how to use that muscle and not let things completely..." – Rostam (61:04)
  • "Boundary culture is deeply flop era right now… it's always a negotiation." – Sam (61:29)
• Revisiting your own work:
  • "When you're finishing an album… you have to listen to it so many times that you kind of like, you can't have any objectivity...then you hear it again, you're like, oh, that's pretty good." – Rostam (66:02)

9. The Nostalgic Encore: Indie Festivals, Girls, and Artistic Evolution

• Anecdotes about Coachella, Sasquatch, Haim, and Charli XCX anchor a nostalgic turn:
  • "I think that there's always gonna be something kind of cool about Coachella. No matter what, no matter who the headliners are..." – Rostam (81:13)
  • Rostam recounts co-writing "Completely Not Me" for Jenny Lewis, featured in Girls ([71:01–72:52]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Relationship Spectrums

• Rostam: "I don't need anyone to... change their life. I want them to live the life that they want. But I also want them to just have perspective on what that life is." (19:09)

On Internet Perceptions

• George: "You get it from all sides...there's gay guys doing the whole like, you give gay people a bad name...Then there is...people just commenting aids, aids. That's how they get aids." (16:59 & 17:36)

On Gender Roles in Queer Relationships

• George: "Every single day, you have to wake up and reinvent the entire concept of being in a relationship because you have no gender roles to fall into." (51:42)

On Revisiting Past Work

• Rostam: "When you're finishing an album... you have to listen to it so many times... you can't have any objectivity. And then you hear it again, you're like, oh, that's pretty good." (66:02)

On Indie Era Complexity

• Rostam: "Some people define [hipsterism] as co-opting ethnic and gay trends...for someone who is both ethnic and gay, you can't really accuse me of being a hipster." (56:18)

On LGBTQ+ Flags

• Sam: "We're going to keep adding stuff and it's going to look like an MIA album cover." (23:15)

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |:----------:|-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:02 | Opening banter – group travel, lesbian sensibility in men | | 09:31 | Straight women dating; hypothetical dating awards | | 10:25 | Long-term relationships: gay, straight, and the "loveless couple" trope | | 11:24 | Monogamy, secure attachment, and attachment theory | | 13:13 | Monogamy spectrum and the Mike Pence "boundary test" | | 16:05 | Internet discourse: gay non-monogamy and public perception | | 20:18 | American imagery, album art, and the meaning of flags | | 46:27 | "Straight Shooters" rapid-fire segment | | 49:34 | Discussion: Who drives in a straight couple? | | 55:40 | Reflecting on 2010s "indie hipster" subculture, Lena Dunham’s memoir | | 66:02 | Revisiting one’s own work after time passes | | 71:01 | Rostam’s Girls/Jenny Lewis "Completely Not Me" story | | 83:34 | Final segment: radio-style shoutouts | | 87:18 | Nude beaches, nudity in queer spaces, cultural upbringing |

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Episode Structure

Introduction/Banter

• Recap of the guest’s identity and context (04:01).
• Rapid-fire jokes about group trips, American traditions, and field day.

Monogamy & Queer Culture

• Contrasts between gay and straight experiences of monogamy.
• The spectrum of boundaries and attachment beyond binary thinking.
• Online discourse and societal perceptions of non-monogamy and gay sex.

Art, Identity, and Cultural Symbols

• Rostam’s challenge with American imagery for his album.
• Ongoing evolution of the Pride flag and what it symbolizes.

Playful Segments

• "Straight Shooters" (46:27): A pop-culture rapid fire quiz on straight culture, cheese trends, and self-mockery.
• Who drives? Revisiting gender roles in relationships – and in laundry.

Media & Art

• Lena Dunham, Girls – friendship/business boundaries, reflecting on creative collaborations, and the shifting sands of 2010s indie America.
• Nostalgia for "the dream of 2011" and early Brooklyn/indie scenes.

Closing

• Deep nostalgia for early music festival experiences.
• Shoutouts to favorite new music, brands, and the joys of nude beaches.

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Tone and Style

The episode is trademark StraightioLab: arch, self-aware, playful, with meta-commentary and in-jokes for listeners fluent in both highbrow and trashy queer culture. The tone is honest and open, moving fluidly from farce to sincerity, satire to genuine reflection.

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For First-Time Listeners

This episode is a mix of incisive humor, pop-cultural stanning, and nuanced queer/straight cultural commentary. If you want a window into how contemporary (and very online) queer comedians wrestle with the idea of monogamy & gender, and how indie-era musicians have aged into new creative and cultural self-awareness, this episode is the crash course.

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Memorable Sign-off:
"Thank you guys for getting naked with me… It's only fun if everyone does it." – Rostam ([89:34])

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Transcript

[Dr. Joy]

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[America 250 Announcer]

Come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Experience music, performances from major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th, helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark [e-mail]

[George Severis]

I turned off news altogether.

[Rostam]

I hate to say it, but I

[Dr. Joy]

don't trust much of anything.

[George Severis]

It's the rage bait.

[Rostam]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[America 250 Announcer]

We got clear facts.

[Rostam]

Maybe we could calm down a little.

[Sam Taggart]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America. What's up y'?

[Rostam]

All?

[Sam Taggart]

Summer's got a different tempo. Everything's a little looser, brighter. One plan turns into another. You hear something, you stay a little longer. Next thing you know, you're somewhere you didn't plan to be. It's those in between moments. That's where the ideas hit. Conversations stretch out. Little memories sneak up on you. And sometimes it's just about what's in your hand. That color, that chill. The new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks. Guava and passion fruit flavors with mango pineapple flavored pearls. Yeah, that feels like summer before you even taste it. Funny how one small stop becomes the best part of the day. So start your summer rhythm with Starbucks. Try the new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks. Tour announcement starts now. Hello everyone. It is me, Sam, and I am going on tour this summer. I'm doing my hour of incredible stand up comedy and I would love, love, love to see you there. So I will be in San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, D.C. boston, Philly, and maybe a couple more. But if you are in any of Those places, please, please, please get tickets. I would love to see you all there. And I'm really, really excited because I love touring now. So see you there. Okay. Enjoy the app. Bye.

[George Severis]

Hi, everyone. This is George from the future here to say that we had so much fun with our guest this episode that we never actually properly introduced him in the beginning. So in case, for whatever reason you have not read the title of this episode or the description, I just wanted to say that our guest today is Rostam, whose new album American Stories is out now, and who you know from his three solo albums, for producing albums for art like Haim and Claro, and for being a founding member of Vampire Weekend. He is one of our faves. We loved talking to him and we hope you love listening to our conversation. So here is Rostam.

[Sam Taggart]

Podcast starts now.

[Rostam]

I went to a school where there's something called Red versus Blue, where it was like this, like, school wide. Like, you got assigned red or blue, and it was like this school wide battle.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rostam]

There was like, tug of war, sports.

[George Severis]

We had that, too. Sure. Did you have that?

[Sam Taggart]

You mean like field day? Sort of.

[George Severis]

Yeah, basically. Basically field day. What you just did now was actually toxic without you realizing it, which is, you know, Rastam and I come from immigrant backgrounds, so we. For us, field day is like an American tradition that we discovered and know about. And then all the.

[Rostam]

Wait, I don't even know what field day is.

[George Severis]

See, but the point is, then you're like, so was field day. This is like when I didn't know what lacrosse was. And then someone was. And I was like, look at this crazy pole this guy is holding. And then someone was like, Jimmy lafrost and settled on. Okay, you need to get your story straight.

[Sam Taggart]

You have too many contradictions.

[George Severis]

Ross.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm already.

[Rostam]

I'm a man of contradiction.

[George Severis]

That's true, actually. I've noticed this lyrically in the album. It's very dialectical. It's very like, well, I believe this thing, except for the days I don't.

[Rostam]

Possible. Okay, is it time for the 5 minute intro yet?

[George Severis]

This is the intro we actually started

[Sam Taggart]

because I said, podcast starts now. Once it's said, it can't be unsaid. Interesting. So now the podcast has begun. But don't worry, you did skip the intro, which is mostly good because all it was going to be was me going, so, George, how does it feel to be in la?

[George Severis]

Yeah. And then I would have said, oh, I'm staying in a hotel where it was falsely advertised as having a Pool. But it turns out the pool is one foot long and is purely decorative, and it's just there for when you have breakfast.

[Sam Taggart]

And then I would have said, well, it was still very nice and actually reminded me of Zipolite.

[George Severis]

Yes. It sort of is like, if you copied and pasted a seaside hotel, but in, literally, Thai town in Los Angeles.

[Rostam]

Okay.

[George Severis]

So it sort of feels like being on a movie set. So you're getting the full Los Angeles experience.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, the smoke and mirrors are right there.

[Rostam]

First rule of Zipolite is you can't talk about Zipoliz.

[George Severis]

Well, honey, you should tell that to every gay guy I know, because that's all they do.

[Sam Taggart]

All you do is talk about it. Well, never forget when the big New York Times article came out that was like, we found it the best place on earth. And then everyone was like, this has to stop. I can't believe they did this. But then I read that article, and I was like, oh, my God, I gotta get down there.

[Rostam]

So I did a trip with a handful of friends. December 2019. So this was just before the pandemic.

[George Severis]

And you brought Covid back?

[Rostam]

No, we. We have a group chat that has survived since this trip in 2019.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[Rostam]

And it's interesting because, yeah, there's. There's, like, one couple that stayed together. There's one couple that didn't stay together, but somehow, like, the group chat from

[George Severis]

Zipolite survives with the couple that didn't stay together. Both of the members are on the group chat, or one of them got

[Sam Taggart]

kicked out and both are active on the group chat.

[Rostam]

Yes. And they actually live together in Spain now, even though they're not together anymore.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, God.

[George Severis]

Are they lesbians?

[Rostam]

They are gay men. Okay. But they have a lesbian.

[George Severis]

But they have a lesbian sensibility.

[Rostam]

Yeah, maybe.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Well, gay men with lesbian sensibilities could save the world if given the opportunity.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, unfortunately, they're too busy journaling sometimes

[George Severis]

that I am a gay man with lesbian.

[Rostam]

I have a friend who told me that she collects straight men with lesbian sensibilities.

[George Severis]

Really?

[Sam Taggart]

Interesting.

[Rostam]

Yes.

[George Severis]

Is this friend a straight woman or a lesbian?

[Rostam]

No, she's definitely on the pan spectrum.

[George Severis]

No, there's only two options. She's on the pan spectrum. Okay.

[Rostam]

Definitely on the pan spectrum. And I really think she's right. Like, I also know these guys, and, like, she does find these men with a lesbian vibe. They're like, mellow straight guys, which exists. It's like a flavor. They're actually kind of wonderful to be around.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I think that's All I know, like, sometimes when I meet like a real asshole straight guy, I'm like, now finally I know. This is what I've heard of.

[Rostam]

Interesting.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know. They don't come to me.

[George Severis]

No, it's very rare that I meet them. And it's usually like the husbands of girl. It's like you'll go to a wedding and you're like, oh, I didn't know that all of you girls, like go home and have to deal with like the worst man I've ever met. Like, I should have had more empathy for you all along. Like, so your day to day life, you like, didn't know that there was another option. You haven't met the lesbian straight guys.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, well, they're rare.

[Rostam]

They're rare.

[George Severis]

They are.

[Rostam]

I don't know that much about Pokemon, but I feel like they're the rarest Pokemon.

[George Severis]

Okay, here's an idea for your friend who's on the pan spectrum and collects lesbian straight guys. She should. Sorry, but become like a madam for these lesbian straight guys and sort of like a service. A service where she like, I think

[Rostam]

the lesbian straight match me. They don't need to, like, they're very desirable for the straight women. Yeah, straight women, they want to find a lesbian straight guy. That's like the dream.

[George Severis]

That's definitely the dream.

[Rostam]

We don't need those lesbian straight guys. They're doing great. They are.

[George Severis]

Okay. They're desirable because I could see it going either way. Some women. Sorry to be like this. Some women say they want a lesbian straight guy and then keep dating sort of horrible straight guys. Have you noticed this?

[Sam Taggart]

Have you picked up on this trend?

[Rostam]

I think that it's. I see that it's quite. I have a few female friends who are dating and it's hard.

[George Severis]

It's the hardest thing you could possibly do is be a straight woman dating.

[Rostam]

Yes.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

And it seems like when you cross the 40 threshold, whereas in the gay world, I don't know, I don't feel like there was a big change.

[Sam Taggart]

Time moves a little bit different.

[Rostam]

Yeah. But I think in the straight world, maybe it gets a lot harder.

[George Severis]

Completely to the point where I actually think there should be awards. It's so hard dating as a straight woman that they should have yearly award shows for it. Lists of the women that are doing it the best. Maybe in the pages of Vulture or New York magazine or something. There should be influencers that are just like, I'm a woman, that's enough and I am dating.

[Sam Taggart]

I will say there's A point against the lesbian straight guy is sometimes you'll see a lesbian straight guy in a straight relationship, and they'll be together for so long, and you're like, you guys should have broken up, like, 100 years ago. But because you're a lesbian straight guy and you guys are essentially in, like, a lesbian relationship, you just, like, put up with each other now.

[Rostam]

Well, but. Okay, but to be fair, how many gay couples do we know where they're, like, in a relationship? It's like a love.

[George Severis]

You literally. You read my mind.

[Rostam]

It's great. Loveless. No, that's so true. And like, it's like, wait, what? What are they doing together?

[George Severis]

Yeah, we have.

[Rostam]

What is their version of partnership?

[George Severis]

But completely it is. Remember Torrey Peters? Have you ever read the author, Tori Peters? She wrote detransition Baby.

[Rostam]

I haven't read that, but I'm curious.

[George Severis]

It's very good, and she's very smart. But when she was on the podcast, she was saying she had this theory that marriage. What was it? Divorces lesbian.

[Sam Taggart]

It was like, the longer the divorce is, the queerer it is.

[George Severis]

Yes, but then she was saying divorce is lesbian, but staying together forever and hating each other is Gay guy. Interesting, because it is just like. And actually this goes into the monogamy top, the monogamy, non monogamy topic, which is like, when you take monogamy off the table, then you never know when you're unhappy if you're in a monogamous relationship.

[Rostam]

You know, I think a lot of you. I don't think that's true. I think I would disagree with you in full force.

[George Severis]

Okay, cool. Oh, wow. That is the most. That is the kindest.

[Sam Taggart]

100% disagree.

[George Severis]

Is the most tender, full force disagreement I've ever experienced.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[Rostam]

Because there are some people who say that there's, like, something called secure attachment, which takes a couple years to achieve. And.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Rostam]

Actually there's. There's like, monogamous couples who don't have secure attachment. I think that's what we're talking about kind of without talking about it. It's like this couple that they're, like, very loyal to each other, but hate each other, they're not good at communicating, upset each other constantly. And we see it with gay monogamous couples, and we see it with straight monogamous couples. And then we also. Those couples do exist that are open and they love each other. And it doesn't like, the open relationship is not the component. It's not like the whole relationship isn't about being open Which I think a lot of people, especially, like straight people are. It's hard for them to conceive of a relationship that's open, where that is not like every flavor on your tongue at every moment. You know, like, it's like, oh, you get breakfast, lunch, and dinner. That isn't. You know, I don't know where I'm going quite with this.

[George Severis]

No, I see what you're saying. For straight people. For straight people, non monogamy is a huge new trend they were reading about in the New York Times. And it's like, the decision is like, do I do it? Do I buy the gear to go skiing? Do I. Do I participate in this thing? And once I participate, there's no going back. And I now identify as polyamorous or something.

[Rostam]

Well, and also, I think as a gay person person, you suddenly find yourself in this position where it's almost like you're asked to. You're being told that you are promoting a lifestyle.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Rostam]

Just because you. And you don't necessarily believe in. Like, it seems like it's a binary. Right. Like, you're either a strict monogamist or you're interested in polyamory, which means that not only do you have love inside your relationship, but you're interested in love outside the relationship, and there's nothing in between that. Like, so I sometimes ask my straight friends if the topic comes up, like, are you okay with your partner hugging another person?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, this is.

[George Severis]

And how does that go?

[Rostam]

And then. And then I escalate. Like, are you okay with your partner kissing another person on the cheek?

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

What about the mouth?

[Sam Taggart]

You're getting hard while saying this.

[Rostam]

Because I feel like it was Mike Pence actually, who said something along the

[George Severis]

lines of, he can't be in the same. He can't be alone with another woman.

[Rostam]

Yes. So that's like, do you believe that?

[George Severis]

Right.

[Rostam]

Do you believe that men and women shouldn't have conversations if they're both in marriages?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I do think for gay men specifically, it is confusing to be monogamous is such a choice. Because if you go to a bar, there's a dark room over there. Like, you're like, there is sex happening. Like, if a straight person was there, they would be like, I went to an orgy. I lock me up and throw away the key. But like a gay person, you're like, well, no, this is like a social gathering that sex is a part of there. Yeah.

[George Severis]

A gay person's like, this is dinner.

[Sam Taggart]

And so it's like, you can be. But it Is like drawing the line almost feels harder.

[Rostam]

There's a generational thing there. And there's like a generation. There's like people who are just like, maybe just five years older. I was born in 83. I don't know about what year you guys were born.

[George Severis]

89, 2005.

[Rostam]

But I think there is a generation. It's. They're not that much older than us, but for them, I think, like, monogamy is like this. It. It is still like a component of. Of their gay life. Do you think it's like a more normalized component of their gay life?

[Sam Taggart]

I can't. We need to talk about the. The Internet.

[George Severis]

Oh, reaction to all this. Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

It's funny that you brought this up today because this is something I've been wanting to talk about, which is that the Internet currently is like, this is a trend of clip that goes viral. Is someone talking about, well, gay guys are always non monogamous.

[Rostam]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

And then it's flooded with comments from seemingly gay guys, potentially bots. I don't know.

[George Severis]

But they're like, gay guys can be bots too.

[Sam Taggart]

Gay guys can be bots.

[George Severis]

Many are.

[Rostam]

Sounds like you're saying something else, but let's keep going.

[Sam Taggart]

So gay guys, in theory being like, yeah, right, Come down to Dallas and see non monogamy. Everyone here is closed. Or like, oh, these gay guys think they have to be open. They're brainwashed. You can be closed.

[George Severis]

The backstory. We asked Rostam, what is your straight topic? And Rostam's like, what if it's monogamy? And we were like, you can do that, but you might walk away dead or otherwise disfigured. And it's one of those things, monogamy versus non monogamy, that your views on it just have to do with your immediate surroundings and the people you surround yourself with, obviously. So it's like, imagine being someone who has never contemplated it in their life. And you're like, on Instagram and you're scrolling and then suddenly it's a clip of me, some sort of disgusting gay guy that's bicoastal, and he's talking about how all the gay guys he knows are non monogamous. Then you're literally like, well, this completely tears into my entire worldview. That's not what's happening in my immediate community of kind of quasi suburban Dallas.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure. I keep bringing up Dallas because I do feel like the comments on your clip in particular were a lot of like, come on down south and see none.

[George Severis]

Well, here's the thing you get it from all sides, which is there's gay guys doing the whole like, you give gay people a bad name because you're like a whorish, you know, circuit gay. And I'm just trying to live a normal life and be accepted by the Republican party. And how dare you give our community a bad name. There's that. Then there is. And I'm not exaggerating because I didn't think this still existed fully. People just commenting aids, aids. That's how they get aids. That's where they get aids. They're aids. Just fully. People that have never met a gay person maybe totally or just are fully old fashioned homophobic.

[Sam Taggart]

It's still out there.

[George Severis]

It's still out there. And then wait, what else?

[Rostam]

Well, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people don't understand that like prep is effective.

[George Severis]

Sure, but I think you're already way ahead of people are.

[Rostam]

I would understand like people who are HIV positive who take their medicine every day.

[George Severis]

And I'm with you, but imagine explaining that to someone saying that's what you're gonna get, aids.

[Rostam]

But I think the point I was trying to make about the Mike Pence stuff is like if you don't agree with Mike Pence, then you actually are on some part of the spectrum of believing of non monogamy in non monogamy because your version of how men and women should interact or how humans should interact in the real world disagrees with his hyper extreme version of it. So I think we gotta slowly open the door to people seeing that their own views like are actually somewhere on a spectrum that's maybe different than what they think.

[George Severis]

That's a really good point. And I think asking, doing what you're saying, which is going step by step and being like, kiss on the mouth. What if it's an accidental kiss on the mouth? What if it's a kiss on the mouth while drunk? What if it's a kiss on the mouth as a dare? Like which, where. What is the limit? Then you are right that it then reframes the conversation as a spectrum. Rather than black and white. I'm either Stepford wife or going to key parties and getting DP'd.

[Rostam]

Yes, exactly. Simultaneously. I also want to add to this, like I hate the idea that you become this proponent of 100%. I don't need anyone to. I don't want people to change their life. I want them to live the life that they want. But I also want them to just have perspective on what that life is. And that's why I think the Mike Pence thing I keep coming back to, but it's just like, yeah, you believe in playing Twister with your straight friends.

[Sam Taggart]

All monogamous people I know are playing Twister with their straight friends. Anything that's sort of in straight conservative. The conservative backlash. We're sort of in even. What's your body count? Well, as a gay guy, that's impossible.

[George Severis]

Because what counts, even, frankly, the concept of losing your virginity.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, literally, I'm like, well, which one?

[George Severis]

That doesn't count if you're not a conservative Christian that believes in the Virgin Mary.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. So when did you lose your virginity? So you have a new album out called American Stories.

[George Severis]

We are dressed like the American flag. We went Americana with it in honor of that.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Would you say it's your Joanne?

[Rostam]

No. Wow. No, I wouldn't.

[Sam Taggart]

But did you contemplate a cowboy hat on the COVID You know, tell me about that.

[Rostam]

I did have. There was a photo that I took where I was playing, like, an acoustic guitar, and it was, like, kind of covering my body, but I was shirtless, and that was in. That was in consideration. I did a bunch of different photo shoots. I thought about having a photo on the album cover, and sometimes I think maybe I'll do, like, a deluxe where

[George Severis]

I do use a photo just full frontal.

[Rostam]

But. But, yeah, like. Yeah, I wasn't going for, like, necessarily. I wasn't trying to hit it too hard in terms of like, the just apropos of us wearing red, white, and blue. By accident. I did take some photos of me in front of just a regular red, white, and blue flag. And they looked great. The photos were great. And I was like, wait, there's something about this doesn't feel like me. It feels like. It feels like a costume or something.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

Like, these colors aren't really the colors that I want to see. And so I had to make some changes.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. American imagery is tough.

[George Severis]

That's the thing. You gave yourself such a huge challenge to be. Like, the palette I'm working with is the American flag the most referenced symbol in the history of the country?

[Rostam]

Yeah. And I actually, in the lead up to announcing my album and my album cover, I posted just a collection of flags that I found on the Internet. And I realized, like, the American flag, it's this thing. What other flag can you think of that has been manipulated so much?

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

And, like, changed and sort of, like, made to represent different things?

[George Severis]

Yeah. The only one I can think of is how the pride flag, they keep adding kinks, keep Adding little circles.

[Sam Taggart]

Keep adding little circles.

[George Severis]

Have you seen the new versions of the Pride flag?

[Rostam]

No, I haven't.

[Sam Taggart]

We are gonna get in trouble for this as well. But they do keep adding stuff to it.

[George Severis]

Well, no, to be clear, we're getting

[Rostam]

it all sides straight.

[George Severis]

People, I want to make one thing perfectly clear. They added a two lines that were meant to represent racial justice, which I am 100% for. Then they added a more explicit trans inclusivity triangle, which I'm all for. And then the circle things started happening that I didn't know about. There's like little circles that represent different kinks.

[Sam Taggart]

Intersex, I believe.

[George Severis]

Well, intersex, I'm all for.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't think it's kinks.

[George Severis]

It's not kinks.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't think it's kinks.

[George Severis]

Okay. Sorry. Oh, maybe it's asexuality.

[Rostam]

Yellow and there's a circle.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, I do.

[Rostam]

Can you figure out what that means? Is. Is that ace.

[Sam Taggart]

But I will say, the joke I want to have wanted to make is that I do feel like we're going to keep adding stuff and it's going to look like an MIA album cover.

[George Severis]

Have you thought of releasing a special Pride edition of your album? That's an upside down rainbow flag.

[Rostam]

Yes. Now would be the time. The clock is ticking.

[George Severis]

I know the clock is ticking.

[Rostam]

You gotta fire up Photoshop and June's gonna be over.

[Sam Taggart]

Do you ever capitalize on Pride?

[Rostam]

I haven't yet.

[George Severis]

I know you need to.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, you've really been in the shadows.

[Rostam]

I'm playing. I'm playing, actually, a show in D.C. at the 9:30 Club on D.C. pride. Saturday, June 20th.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God. This is your chance to connect with Mike Pence and give him your big theory.

[Rostam]

This is my chance to connect with my DC Gays, who are probably fans of this show.

[George Severis]

Let's. So. Actually. Well, first of all. First of all, do not say that to us.

[Rostam]

Wait, why? No.

[Sam Taggart]

We have a love hate with the D.C. gay community. No.

[George Severis]

Well, what do you think about D.C. gays?

[Rostam]

You gotta understand, like, I grew up in D.C. from age 0 to 18, and then I went to college in New York, and I stayed in New York. So my experience of the DC gay world is weird. You know, it's like we find it

[George Severis]

fascinating because, well, there's two things.

[Sam Taggart]

A.

[George Severis]

Just this stereotype of the D.C. gay. To me, it's like skinny, stretch khakis and dress shirt.

[Sam Taggart]

What?

[George Severis]

Am I wrong?

[Sam Taggart]

No, you're totally right.

[George Severis]

It's like gay guys that work in Politics. And then the other element of it is.

[Rostam]

Yes. You're explaining why khakis are a pant you will never see me in.

[George Severis]

Sure.

[Rostam]

I think I'm traumatized by, oh, honey,

[Sam Taggart]

you'll see me in a khaki. You'll see me in a khaki.

[George Severis]

Wow. Even when you're reclaiming Americana, you can't go, I know. I'm surprised to have a ki.

[Rostam]

I see khakis. I don't know. It's just like a certain era of my life. Know you. It's like a school. It literally was a school uniform. Sure, sure, sure. And there's so many versions of the khaki. You know, it's like the golden retriever, where it's like, you know, like those really, like, Irish cream golden retrievers. That's like a. It's like a status symbol. And similarly, I think with khakis, like, the lighter you go. It starts to become like. It represents, you know, your connection to Mike Pence.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm thinking next album cover, it's just a pair of khakis. You're really dealing with trauma there.

[George Severis]

Okay, here's a question for you. Speaking of khakis, in your early career, a big part of the narrative around your band was like, that it was either ironically or not ironically. Reappropriating preppy aesthetics.

[Rostam]

Yes.

[George Severis]

Where do you stand on that now?

[Rostam]

I think that there's some things that will always be cool about preppy style, and I actually think some people say, now we're in this moment of resurgence.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I've read that, too.

[Sam Taggart]

I think in a big way, I'm going to gay parties where people are supposed to be wearing tank tops, and everyone's in polos, myself included.

[George Severis]

Polos. Huge comeback. I'm seeing polos at the club.

[Sam Taggart]

It's polos and penny loafers at the club.

[Rostam]

Interesting. Yeah. I actually went on record on another podcast, how Long Gone, about how I just will never like loafers.

[Sam Taggart]

We actually did both listen to that.

[George Severis]

We did both listen to that.

[Rostam]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

And I was so surprised to hear this.

[Rostam]

I'm just not a loafers guy.

[Sam Taggart]

If you had told me you were launching a line of loafers, I would believe you.

[Rostam]

Damn. For pride.

[George Severis]

Damn. A line of rainbow loafers for pride.

[Rostam]

I publicist on the line about, I

[Sam Taggart]

think you're low for presenting.

[Rostam]

Damn.

[George Severis]

I don't actually think you're loafer presenting.

[Rostam]

I think boat shoes are a different thing, but maybe they are adjacent to.

[George Severis]

So this is interesting because to me, boat shoes, no matter what, I do If I wear boat shoes, it looks lame. I can't wear them ironically.

[Rostam]

And that's how I feel about. Well, in general, I don't wear any clothes ironically, but.

[George Severis]

But you. But not ironically. But like.

[Rostam]

But I agree with you. I don't look. I just don't look good in loafers. I think I just need more of a heel. Totally. Like, that's what I'm working with. I need to, like, feel planted in the ground. I need to feel.

[Sam Taggart]

It's funny that a heel makes you feel planted.

[Rostam]

Yeah, I need to feel like there's some rubber between me and the ground.

[George Severis]

This I'm seeing more and more of is larger and larger souls.

[Rostam]

Interesting.

[Dr. Joy]

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[George Severis]

I turned off news altogether.

[Rostam]

I hate to say it, but I

[Dr. Joy]

don't trust much of anything.

[George Severis]

It's the rage bait.

[Rostam]

It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

[Sam Taggart]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts let's move forward from there. NBC News, reporting for America with my

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[George Severis]

Should we do our first segment?

[Sam Taggart]

We've.

[Rostam]

Wait, I'm not bouncing around.

[George Severis]

No, this is.

[Rostam]

Are we getting. Or is this podcast going to get edited too?

[Sam Taggart]

No, no, no. Not even a second of this goes in.

[Rostam]

Can't tell. This is.

[Sam Taggart]

If there's a long pause, you better believe we're keeping it in.

[Rostam]

There's so much staff here. This is more staff than I've ever experienced.

[Sam Taggart]

Please don't break the fourth wall like that with. With our. With our staff. We are a humble independent podcast that's completely self producing.

[George Severis]

This is squatters rights. We're not even part of iheart. We haven't come here. They don't know they. We have to sleep here because if

[Rostam]

we leave, can I learn more to

[George Severis]

this pod, to this studio, to being acquired by iHeartrading.

[Rostam]

Yeah, like, what's the origin story? Like, give me the.

[George Severis]

Are you sort of implying that like, we're not the kind of podcast that would be.

[Sam Taggart]

Did you expect more professionalism?

[George Severis]

That would be in a corporate conglomerate.

[Rostam]

I'm actually saying this is the most professional podcast I've participated in.

[George Severis]

And you're. Yeah, but then the implication is how

[Rostam]

did you get there? No, but like, what's the story? What's the journey?

[Sam Taggart]

What's our American story?

[George Severis]

What's our American story?

[Rostam]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[George Severis]

You know, my parents grew up middle to working class in Greece and they never thought that they could have a son that is a gay podcaster. That's not something that they even allowed themselves to dream.

[Sam Taggart]

You know, I was just a boy in rural towns all across America, you know, my parents picking up, moving every two to three years. And never in my life did I think, here I would be in Los Angeles, California, with the lights shining bright on our unmakeuped faces. Does that answer your question?

[Rostam]

Not really.

[Sam Taggart]

Good. So basically, I'm not gonna explain our story.

[George Severis]

What?

[Rostam]

Oh, wait, you could cut it out. You guys.

[George Severis]

Are you genuinely interested?

[Sam Taggart]

Legit boring.

[George Severis]

Oh, no. We met. We're stand up comedians. We met at comedy shows. And then in 2019, we were like, if we start a podcast, then we can promote our shows and more people can come to our shows.

[Sam Taggart]

And then we started a podcast.

[Rostam]

It created an energy.

[George Severis]

We literally ruined our lives. And then we started it by ourselves. We produced it by ourselves for two years. And then we were acquired by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network, which is, of course, the comedy arm of iHeartMedia.

[Rostam]

Got you. All right. That was.

[George Severis]

And now we have a staff of over 35 people. They are all unpaid, and they do it for the love of the game. And we tell them every. They're, you know, they're unpaid contractors. And every year we say, you know, if you just keep at it, maybe you'll be hired full time next year.

[Sam Taggart]

And it's sort of our thing now where we have people on, where we're like, wow, that'd be so awesome to have them on. And then we don't ask them any real questions.

[Rostam]

Well, I feel like that's just. That's like 2026. That's the house style for podcasts.

[George Severis]

I know, it's true. And I'm like, how do you feel doing podcasts? Are you like, oh, now we're getting into it. Are you like, jesus Christ, I have to go talk to these, like, random ass gayers.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. What was your. When you woke up this morning, what

[Rostam]

was your first podcast? One thing I like about how long gone is that people will go on that show, and if they're. If they're chill, they're just gonna let it. They'll take it where the wind blows it. Like. And then there are some people that about halfway through, they start to feel anxious. And you can tell, you could feel it. They're like, wait, why am I here? I need to talk about what I'm promoting completely. I can't just be talking about bullshit with Chris and Jason for however many hours.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

And then it becomes this Like, I have to promote myself. So I. Here's what I feel about podcasts. I like doing it. I'm conscious of this. Like, you don't need to promote anything. Just be yourself. You know, I think that's what people want from a podcast, and if they like who you are, that. That incentivizes them to seek out your work. Sure.

[Sam Taggart]

So he's not in his joy, and he's born this way.

[George Severis]

You're.

[Rostam]

I would. I would. I would like that. I like that. You're more born this way than a child.

[Sam Taggart]

Love yourself and you're set.

[George Severis]

Oh, you're saying no matter gay, straight or bi, lesbian, transgender, alive, I'm. You're on the right track, baby. You were born to survive, literally.

[Rostam]

I think so. I think that's what I'm saying. I'm saying my thought on podcasts is be yourself. Don't worry about.

[George Severis]

Everyone else is taken.

[Rostam]

Don't worry about promo.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

Like, okay, there. I've done, like, the kind of, like, music podcast where you go in deep about the record, and those are cool, too, but we should just, like, talk shit about whatever we want to talk about.

[Sam Taggart]

Totally.

[Rostam]

And if you guys want to talk about the record, I'll talk about it for sure.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Who's your favorite Heim?

[Rostam]

This is a tough question.

[George Severis]

You can take all the time you need.

[Sam Taggart]

We'll leave the time. We'll leave the empty space down. Okay.

[George Severis]

We talk about the Himes a lot on this podcast in a loving way. To be clear, we're not setting you up. We have this recurring game that the listeners really love, where we. It's sort of like, merry fuck kill, but it's which Hym sister is which thing? So you'll be like, okay, Father, Son, Holy Ghost, which one is Esti? Which one is Danielle, and which one is Alanna?

[Rostam]

Wow.

[George Severis]

And we have actually never met the Heims, even though we've spotted, I think, all three of them. Between the two of us, I have

[Sam Taggart]

actually only spotted Danielle over 100%.

[George Severis]

One of Danielle's big.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm stalking her. For the record.

[George Severis]

Well, Danielle's job, her primary job is musician. Secondary job, going to restaurants and being spotted. So. And we have been lucky enough to collaborate with her on that in that we are the one spotting.

[Sam Taggart]

The one spotting. It takes two.

[George Severis]

It takes two. So pretty much, I think we. Because you know the Heims, and because you have insight that we don't, we would be curious to get your take on how we can be better about when we do this. Game. And if we are wrong about their personality. So in our mind, what we think of them as is. Alana's the ingenue. You know, she's a film star.

[Sam Taggart]

She's always getting in front of the camera.

[George Severis]

She's always getting in front of the camera. Danielle is like the CEO. She has a spreadsheet. She's on it.

[Sam Taggart]

She's like, you guys, we have to work.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And then esti stand up comedian. Super. She loves Chris Farley. She'll, like, make a Molly Shannon. More Molly Shannon.

[Rostam]

Sure, sure, sure.

[George Severis]

She'll, like, walk into a room and, like, burp. And it's like, lol. Can you believe I just did that? And people are dying, and people are

[Sam Taggart]

like, I can't believe that.

[George Severis]

They're like, oh, my God, this is the Elton John amfar gala. So, for example, like, what's.

[Rostam]

I will say Danielle is the most mysterious in a way. And I think she cultivates that, whether it's by mistake or design, but she stays kind of mysterious.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Even to you.

[Rostam]

Even to me.

[Sam Taggart]

Whoa.

[Rostam]

Yes. And I think that does go along with your CEO sort of Persona, being

[George Severis]

a puppet master, because she's not giving a lot of herself away. She's behind the scenes making sure the right levers are being pulled.

[Rostam]

Yes. I don't want to say too much, but I think she has a very strong vision.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

And that's not necess. If you go to a heim show you don't necessarily get. You see Alana and Esti, who are so talkative and bubbly and commanding the stage. And Danielle commands the stage in a different way.

[Sam Taggart]

Which heim would you call if you had a flat tire?

[Rostam]

I think Alana, because her boyfriend also likes cars.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Interesting. Outsourcing.

[George Severis]

Women can't.

[Sam Taggart]

Women can't fix the cars.

[George Severis]

They don't have any practical skills. All they know about is makeup. And, you know, like,

[Rostam]

I would say. I mean, I still pick Alana.

[George Severis]

Yeah, totally.

[Rostam]

Because maybe, you know, Jonathan can talk her through the.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God. You're digging yourself deeper. Here's a question. Who would you call if you're, like, texting back a guy that you have a crush on and you need help, like, crafting the text?

[Rostam]

Well, one time I was like, actually, I went through a breakup while we were making the last record. I quit. And something esti said to me, which stuck in my mind, was, everyone is in your life for a reason or a season.

[George Severis]

Whoa.

[Sam Taggart]

She's doing wordplay.

[George Severis]

Well, she's a comedian.

[Rostam]

No, she was saying it Seriously. And actually, it was kind of what I needed to hear in that moment.

[George Severis]

For a reason or a season?

[Rostam]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Which part resonated with you?

[Rostam]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Do you think that person that you had just broken up with was in it for a reason or a season or both? And also, why can't it be both? You know what I mean?

[Sam Taggart]

Do you believe in the reason or season binary?

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

Like, I feel like I don't know that it's an exclusive binary. Apropos of the.

[George Severis]

Do you feel like you were hypnotized by the rhyming of it all and were like.

[Sam Taggart]

I was like, holy shit. Reason or season?

[Rostam]

I kind of was. I kind of was.

[George Severis]

Okay, who would you call if you needed help writing a best man speech?

[Rostam]

Which of the three himes I actually did have. There was this awards show where I did present an award to the Himes, and I actually had to write a speech about them.

[George Severis]

Oh, okay.

[Sam Taggart]

So like ChatGPT?

[George Severis]

Yeah. Did you use Claude or ChatGPT?

[Rostam]

No. Or not. But I talked about when I first met Danielle. She was a member of Julian Casablancas solo band. Julian Casablancas? Marcus, the lead singer of the Strokes.

[George Severis]

I cannot believe you are explaining to.

[Rostam]

Not to you guys, but to the other. No, but to the gays who listen to this.

[Sam Taggart]

They're indie rock. Ish.

[Rostam]

Gays, sure. But I'm trying to give it. I'm trying to be inclusive here. Okay.

[George Severis]

Very darn great job.

[Rostam]

So. So Danielle was a member of Julian's band, and she told me about. There's this era where Julian was like, I want to sign you. I want you to be part of my project, and I want to sign you. I want to, like, collaborate with you. Like, in def. Kind of like, I want to lock it in. I believe in Danielle Heim, and she had to be like, hold on a second. There's this band I have with my sisters that I want to give. That. I need to give it a shot. Like, I won't be able to sleep unless I just, like, give this a shot. And I think they were playing, like, you know, they were playing at, like, the Silver Lake Lounge at the time. They were, like, playing for their friends. It wasn't happening yet, you know, it really wasn't happening for them yet. And so I talked about that in the speech. Just like that. It's hard to imagine a world where they didn't bet on themselves and, like, didn't like. But. But it. It was precarious for a second there. I mean, it's interesting to think about the Moments where people have to, like, make a choice, and sometimes you have to choose to bet on you.

[Sam Taggart]

Whoa, whoa.

[George Severis]

You're being born this way.

[Sam Taggart]

You're being so born this way. That's crazy.

[George Severis]

I think people are gonna be inspired.

[Rostam]

I think I am. I'm probably more of a born this way than an art pop. There's some things I like about art pop. I like that song. G U Y.

[Sam Taggart]

Love that songs.

[Rostam]

That. That's on our pop, right?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rostam]

Born this. Yeah. Born this Way is pretty good, I think. Yeah. Judas is underrated.

[George Severis]

Well, Judas is in. Yeah.

[Rostam]

No, that is Born. That was like, the comeback single.

[George Severis]

No.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

It's my mom's favorite Lady Gaga track.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[Rostam]

My. I think when. When Lady Gaga really hit for me was the combo of Telephone followed by Bad Romance.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

And it was both the songs and the videos where I was like, oh, this is just another thing.

[George Severis]

So you're like one of the. No, please, no.

[Sam Taggart]

Go for it.

[George Severis]

That's a compliment.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I love this.

[George Severis]

You have this double life where you are a solo artist, singer, songwriter. You like being in front of the camera, and then you are also a pop producer, sort of in the vein of various other men that I won't mention. How do you navigate those two identities?

[Rostam]

I think I haven't done a great job of keeping the garden tended to in terms of my artist project because I think I've left people hanging for so long. Right now I'm in the midst of a tour and it feels like I'm just starting from scratch, kind of, because the last time I put out a record was five years ago. But I think I'd like to be better at balancing the two. But the reality is both of them give me a lot of joy working as a producer across whole albums with other artists. It's really fun for me to do. It gives me something that making albums completely alone doesn't, and vice versa. So I like doing both a lot, and I hope the rest of my life I'll continue to do both. But I think I could be better about keeping the artist project alive in between albums. So that's my. That's, like, my new goal.

[Dr. Joy]

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[America 250 Announcer]

4th, come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Experience music, performances from major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th, helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark [e-mail]

[George Severis]

I turned off news altogether.

[Rostam]

I hate to say it, but I

[Dr. Joy]

don't trust much of anything.

[George Severis]

It's the rage bait.

[Rostam]

It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

[Sam Taggart]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[Rostam]

Mom, can I have Lingokids?

[Lingokids Parent/Advertiser]

Dad? Lingokids, please.

[Rostam]

When did we become the Lingokids house?

[America 250 Announcer]

No idea.

[Lingokids Parent/Advertiser]

Last week it was dinosaurs.

[Rostam]

This week it's Lingokids.

[Sam Taggart]

Why Lingokids?

[Rostam]

Because it's the best thing ever.

[George Severis]

We can play games with astronauts, wild animals and superheroes.

[America 250 Announcer]

With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows, LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.

[Lingokids Parent/Advertiser]

So no dinosaurs and dinosaurs.

[Sam Taggart]

Lingo kids, everything kids love.

[Rostam]

Download it for free.

[George Severis]

Okay, Rostam. We have a segment, it's called Straight Shooters and we gauge your familiarity with and complicity in straight culture by asking you a series of rapid fire questions where you have to choose this thing or this other thing. And the one rule is you can't ask any follow up questions about how the game works.

[Rostam]

Did you say incomplicity?

[George Severis]

Is that question. Rose Bud Thorne or Jason Bourne?

[Rostam]

Rosebud Thorn?

[Sam Taggart]

Wallowing in sorrow or swallowing your Amaro?

[Rostam]

Amaro?

[George Severis]

Selling out or getting Gout.

[Rostam]

Gout.

[Sam Taggart]

Mixed and mastered or you bitch, you bastard.

[Rostam]

You bitch, you bastard.

[George Severis]

Venus de Milo or Jesus? That's claro.

[Rostam]

Jesus. That's claro.

[Sam Taggart]

Philharmonic or Phil Hartman?

[Rostam]

Hartman.

[George Severis]

Gorgonzola. Coca Cola or Areola?

[Rostam]

Is that three?

[George Severis]

I'm gonna allow that question and say that, yes, it is three.

[Rostam]

Coca Cola.

[Sam Taggart]

Finding your voice or eyeing someone and saying noice.

[Rostam]

Noice.

[George Severis]

Okay. Well, first of all, I think you did an incredible job.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that was awesome.

[Rostam]

I tried my best.

[Sam Taggart]

I liked the part where you really touched your glasses.

[George Severis]

Yeah, no, you were really good at touching your glasses. And I also liked how when it was three, it threw you off.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Because you were locked into two.

[Rostam]

I was traumatized by this. There was an era, I think this era has passed, where my dad, instead of saying, would, like, say cheese. When he took a photo, he would say gorgonzola in this way that I was like, dad, this is very not you. Can you please never do this again.

[Sam Taggart]

He was trying on silly. He's not normally silly.

[Rostam]

Not really. It's not really his style.

[Sam Taggart]

That's scary.

[George Severis]

Was gorgonzola referencing anything or he just, like, thought it, like. It's like a sound.

[Rostam]

Well, I think it's a type of cheese.

[George Severis]

Totally.

[Rostam]

And it's a silly word. So I think people were like. There was, like, a moment where people thought it was cool to say that. Got it to get people.

[Sam Taggart]

So he hopped on the trend. He hopped on the trend.

[Rostam]

Yes. And I thought that was very my dad behavior. My dad is in a trend.

[George Severis]

He's a trend Trendsetter.

[Rostam]

Yes, absolutely. 100%.

[Sam Taggart]

You're like an acting professor. You're like, that's not you. That's not honest.

[Rostam]

That's how I felt about the gorgonzola trend. Hopefully it's over.

[Sam Taggart]

Rossim, you really shouldn't bring up the gorgonzola trend. People on social media have been going crazy when we mentioned that. Should we get into the topic now? Oh, well, first of all, we rate our guests on a scale of 0 to 1,000 doves based on the Lady Gaga song 1,000 doves. And I do believe that that was 911 doves.

[George Severis]

Wow. 9, 11. Never forget.

[Rostam]

Amazing.

[Sam Taggart]

That's the first time we've given that score.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Because we haven't wanted to touch that number.

[George Severis]

This is a really provocative episode.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Okay, so your topic is monogamy or.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that's one topic. Topic one. Which we're not doing. We already did do.

[George Severis]

We already did do.

[Sam Taggart]

So your other topic is who drives

[Rostam]

In a straight couple.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Which was interesting because we started talking about it before recording, and I said, oh, of course. Because the man tries. And then you two both jumped down my throat and said, not always. Sometimes women.

[George Severis]

Did your mom drive or your dad?

[Rostam]

My dad.

[Sam Taggart]

My dad also drove and my dad also drove.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Rostam]

But one of the straight couples that I'm closest to, the female in the relationship drives. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[Rostam]

Yes. And there's no weirdness about it.

[George Severis]

And we already know it's not Alanna and Jonathan. Because he wears the pants.

[Rostam]

No, no, it's not Alanna and Jonathan.

[Sam Taggart]

Is he European?

[Rostam]

I don't know. Half Ashkenazi. I think that is European.

[George Severis]

Wow. Half Ashkenazi is still European.

[Rostam]

And she's half Filipina.

[George Severis]

Okay, so that's also European.

[Rostam]

German.

[George Severis]

Okay, so they're fully European.

[Sam Taggart]

Huh? But you think it's.

[George Severis]

No, I think it's so.

[Rostam]

I think. I just think that there are some couples where the guy's just like, yeah, I'm not good at driving. She's good at driving. She does the driving. I don't like driving. It stresses me out in a weird way.

[George Severis]

In both options, the man comes out on top. If the man is the one driving, that means he's in charge. If he's not the one driving, it's like, oh, he's a king and he's being driven.

[Rostam]

Interesting. Well, I will say sometimes he's driven me, and when I get in the car, he has Apple Maps up, and I'm just like, oh, you want us to die?

[Sam Taggart]

Sure. As opposed to Google Maps.

[Rostam]

Yes, because Google Maps is trustworthy. Apple Maps will kill you.

[George Severis]

Yeah, Apple Maps. To have Apple Maps on, that means normally the wife is driving and this is your first time basically learning how to be behind the wheel. And you just. You just literally, like, Googled Map and then that's the first thing that came up.

[Rostam]

I actually think that is true.

[Sam Taggart]

I will say it is. An interesting part of being in a gay relationship is that the gender does not inform whether you do or don't drive.

[George Severis]

Yes. Or whether you do or don't do literally anything else. Every single day, you have to wake up and reinvent the entire concept of being in a relationship because you have no gender roles. No gender roles to fall into.

[Rostam]

But I also think my parents are an interesting example because I feel like my parents didn't have necessarily traditional gender

[Sam Taggart]

roles, what was going on.

[Rostam]

I just feel like my mom has a much stronger vision of and expresses herself much more bluntly than my dad in ways that I think in some American families, it's reversed.

[George Severis]

Would you say your mom is more of a Danielle Heim?

[Rostam]

No, not really, no.

[Sam Taggart]

She's giving SD boots.

[George Severis]

Oh, you think she's.

[Rostam]

No, I don't think my mom is like any of the Heims, actually.

[Sam Taggart]

Interestingly, that's weird, because they contain all people. You just have to find the right combination.

[Rostam]

Maybe now that you're actually someone who's made two albums with the Himes, I can tell you maybe that's not true.

[Sam Taggart]

Maybe not.

[George Severis]

Oh, you think there is. You think there's something. There could be a fourth Heim sister.

[Sam Taggart]

Whoa, whoa. Of the three of us. Which is. Which

[Rostam]

Interesting.

[George Severis]

Based on your experience of us so far, and we have only met in person today.

[Rostam]

You're Alanna. You're esti.

[Sam Taggart]

Really damn clocked.

[George Severis]

Okay, I'll take it. And so you're Danielle is, of course, the implication of that, which I agree with, to be clear.

[Rostam]

Let's leave it at that. What more could we say?

[George Severis]

No, it's true. It's true.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's much more true.

[Rostam]

Okay, so gender roles. Driving.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Wait. Yeah, you were on your mom. Oh, being blunt. Oh. But sometimes this thing happens where in a straight relationship, the woman will, like, pop be so comfortable popping off. Crazy. Because they're always sort of like, well, my man's got me. Like, have you seen this dynamic before?

[Rostam]

Yes. That is. I think I've witnessed that a little bit.

[Sam Taggart]

That is always interesting to me.

[George Severis]

As a driver or as a person?

[Sam Taggart]

No, just as a person. Him talking about his mom being generally blunt.

[George Severis]

Oh, sure, sure, sure.

[Sam Taggart]

Direct. I do feel like that is a thing sometimes. The man is sort of, like, stoic and quiet behind. And then the wife is hopping off all the time.

[Rostam]

Yeah, I don't think that's exactly my parents either, but just say it.

[Sam Taggart]

Your mom's popping off. What gender roles, when you're in a relationship, do you take.

[Rostam]

Oh, brother. I'm not. I don't know. I'm not super into gender as, like, a thing. I don't know.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. What household roles do you take?

[Rostam]

Interesting. I do. Like, there's, like, a. I have a kitchen island in my house, and I really like that island to be clean. I don't like stuff just, like, hanging out on the island.

[Sam Taggart]

Does that mean you clean it, or does that mean you just get mad when it's dirty?

[Rostam]

I try my best to keep it clean. And my parents have come and stayed with me in la, and they don't really. They don't like to respect the house rules. And it's tricky. You know, it's tricky because there's not that many people that can, like, get away with not respecting your house rules.

[George Severis]

But your parents, your parents are.

[Rostam]

Yeah, they can kind of do it. And you're just like, what do I do now?

[George Severis]

No, they can sort of do pretty much anything. And then what are you gonna do? Pick them out?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, they're only there for a little bit.

[Rostam]

Exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

You just gotta swallow it.

[George Severis]

Okay, I have a question for you, which is Sam was making this point earlier when we were talking where he was like, we just both read the Lena Dunham memoir and there's a lot

[Rostam]

of, like, all three of us have read it. Then there you go.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, and before you even say this point, I want to say once again, thank you, Lena Dunham. At this summer, you can talk to any single gay guy on earth. And if you're, like, struggling, you can be like, did you read Famesick? And they're like, I loved it. And then you're in and you're having a convo. It's genuinely the key to summer.

[Rostam]

Interesting.

[George Severis]

Do you ever meet. One of the biggest throwbacks is when you meet someone still to this day that is like, I don't know, she's annoying. And you're like, hello, we've been through so many cycles. We've been past that years ago.

[Sam Taggart]

Anyway, keep going.

[George Severis]

But the point is, she's sort of reevaluating the period of the 2010s when she was at the peak of her fame. During that period, you were also part of a general, kind of a general. Seen is not the right word, but like a cultural environment that if you wanted to be so completely, completely reductive, you would call indie hipsterism and like, it sort of defined a certain kind of subculture of the 2010s. Do you feel like you have enough distance from that to be able to kind of analyze it from a remove, or is it. Did it hurt when I just said the word hipster to you?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

You know what I mean? Is hipster a slur?

[Rostam]

Well, hipster, interestingly, some people define as like, co opting ethnic and gay trends.

[George Severis]

Sure.

[Rostam]

And for someone who is both ethnic and gay, I feel like.

[Sam Taggart]

Next album title.

[Rostam]

You can't really. You can't really accuse me of being a hipster. It's like all about, like taking my people's stuff and putting it in the mainstream. So, yeah, I guess. Yeah. I don't know how I feel about the word hipster, but Yeah, I don't feel any kind of pains or pangs of anything. I think the thing you're talking about is, like, this Brooklyn. It was like there was a Brooklyn moment.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, of course.

[Rostam]

And

[Sam Taggart]

the dream of 2011.

[George Severis]

The dream of 2011. We always talk about.

[Sam Taggart]

I can go to Greenpoint and still be in the dream of 2011.

[George Severis]

What is the. Our favorite video? Solange at Lollapalooza.

[Sam Taggart]

No, no, it's on Pitchfork Fest. No, there was, like, a free concert on the water, sort of in Williamsburg. Like, where, like, Smorgasborg is.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, in that, like, lot. And she is dancing to Grizzly Bear. And it's, like, such a.

[George Severis]

And is it both Solange and.

[Sam Taggart]

Solange and Beyonce.

[George Severis]

Solange and Beyonce dancing to Grizzly Bear. Like, that dream really was something for us. Or, for example, I was living in San Francisco at the time. I saw Charli Xiaomi at the Chipotle Heritage Festival performing Boom Clap.

[Rostam]

Amazing.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. So basically we're sort of saying, isn't that weird?

[Rostam]

That was a song she played for me before it came out. And I think I was like, I don't know if I get this one. Another one was like, Same Old Love, which eventually was sung by Selena Gomez.

[George Severis]

That was a Charlie song.

[Rostam]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's like. I think they left part of her vocal in the song. Yeah, yeah. It's not a secret.

[George Severis]

And did you like that one or No?

[Rostam]

I said something like, I'm so sick of the same old chorus.

[Sam Taggart]

Damn.

[George Severis]

Got her ass.

[Rostam]

I really remember that. But there's other songs she's played me. I'm like, this is a hit. Yeah. She played me rock music the night before it came out. Great song. I thought that was a hit.

[George Severis]

Have you seen the COVID I mean, I'm sure you have seen the COVID of the new album.

[Rostam]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

That's fun.

[George Severis]

Music, fashion, film. Which one is Danielle? Which one is Esti, and which one is Alana?

[Rostam]

You know what? I think it's pretty clear.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Film is Alana. No.

[Rostam]

Interesting.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, it's a bit.

[George Severis]

Just because she's.

[Sam Taggart]

It's a bit on the nose.

[Rostam]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how they fit into that paradigm. But wait, there was another question that was asked that I don't think I answered. Wasn't there, or should I not. Should I not piss against the wind?

[George Severis]

No, no. Piss against the wind is encouraged.

[Sam Taggart]

The re. About.

[Rostam]

Oh, about Brooklyn.

[Sam Taggart]

Seeing Brooklyn from, like, today's perspective.

[Rostam]

I was actually thinking about this last night because there's a moment in the book that really sent shivers down my spine, which was the moment where she and Jenny Connor are renegotiating their contracts with hbo. And the way that it became this thing where like, oh, you're a part of this industry, you're in business, but you're also in business with your friends. And what's interesting, I think for me as someone who makes music and collaborates in some way, shape and form on anything I do, even my own project, you know, there's collaboration, working as a producer for other people, it's constant collaboration. And I don't really have like. I don't really work with anyone with whom I have a strictly professional relationship. So I'm constantly in business with my friends. And I think what was so scary about the way that. That perspective Lena's looking back on renegotiating the contracts was it seemed like it was really hard for her to have like these internal boundaries. And I think she. I think that she did. The way she recounts the story, Jenny does kind of come off as a villain, but I don't think it's quite as black and white and white in real life. Maybe I'm wrong.

[George Severis]

No, no, I think you're right that it's not as black and white.

[Rostam]

But I also felt this thing of just like, oh, and also how young she probably was. She must have been like in her.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

And I was in similar situations. Nothing, nothing. There's nothing that I look back on with like this dread or bad feelings about. But just like there is something scary about constantly having to navigate being in business with your friends and where are the lines between friendship and business? And I think like, it is something. It's kind of like a muscle. You have to learn to.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

To like know how to use that muscle and not let things completely.

[George Severis]

Because it actually isn't. I think the language of boundaries weirdly is not the right metaphor for interesting because there isn't a bound. I mean, Sam and I are in business together and negotiate contract. There's no way that I can be like, well, that's my boundary. And if you cross it, then it's a non starter from there.

[Sam Taggart]

I actually think boundary culture is deeply flop era right now. I think people misunderstand what boundaries are and just think it's so important to be putting up boundaries. And it's like, right, it is, but it's also a negotiation always. You can't just put up a wall. You have to have like a conversation no matter what.

[Rostam]

Well, I think one thing that's important about boundaries Is like, boundaries is not, don't call me after 8 o', clock, right? It's, I'm not gonna pick up if you call me after 8:00. And then when you do, I don't pick up. It's something that you have to actually maintain. You have to maintain that boundary. Like, I think you're right. I semi agree with you about boundary culture being a flop. But I think it's because people don't really understand what boundaries are and what they'. And like, holding what I think about as, like, having like, a very gentle but firm grip and being kind of unshakable and just being like, I don't agree. Like, I see where you're coming from, but I don't agree.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

And then. And then it's like, okay, so what are the next steps? And I think that, yeah, just to take it back to the Jenny and Lena thing, it's like. Like they never had that. They never had the next steps. Right. It was just like they never got to have a real conversation.

[George Severis]

There's also an unspoken power dynamic of Jenny being the older and more experienced one also Lina being the whatever. What is it? The hen that lays the golden egg. They aren't, for example. The difference between that and me and Sam is that we are, if nothing else, coming at it as complete equals. Whereas it is a different thing. One of them is the face of the project and the one getting all the attention, and the other one is, quote, unquote, the adult in the room. But then they also are identifying as best friends. How would you even go about setting boundaries in that situation?

[Rostam]

Well, I think you could. I think you could. I feel like what they needed to do was, like, sit, like. Cause they. It's interesting because eventually they do sit with a couples therapist, mediator type person. They should have maybe sat with that type of person in that moment where they were negotiating their contracts. And they should have been able to, like, have someone that would facilitate communication. That's what they really needed. I think they needed to go to couples therapy in that moment as opposed to, like. Cause maybe that's something of an inflection point where after that, like, the relationship,

[Sam Taggart]

the whole book, I was so. Hashtag teamlina. I was on her side the whole time. And then it gets to the part where she brings a new old ass dog to set. And I was like, okay, now this part, I would be pissed off.

[George Severis]

Yeah, but that's what's so beautiful about her, is that she also sleeps with five pigs in her bed. It's like, you can't have one without the other. You actually can't have the genius of her writing without her bringing a deathly ill dog to set.

[Rostam]

I will say something that happened to me recently, maybe two nights ago. I was watching the season finale of Euphoria, and I fell asleep for the last 15 minutes. And you know how sometimes you start waking up and already HBO Max is serving you the next thing, and you're like, wait, what? Like, what am I seeing? So HBO Max decided to serve me up. Girls, Season one, Episode one, the pilot. And I was like, oh, yeah, I've just. I just listened to Lena's book on tape. I'm gonna take a watch. It was interesting to me. That episode has a lot of kinks in it, that first episode. Really? Yeah. It wasn't how I remembered. I remembered it super tight. There's things that are quite awkward. There's things that they were still figuring out.

[George Severis]

That's so funny. Cause I had the opposite experience where I remember it being so mumblecore. And it's just conversations, then anything goes. And then viewing it again with the Eye of Structure, I was like, whoa. It is doing such a good job of establishing exactly what each person's motivations are, what is standing in her way, how she, you know, where she is in the beginning versus where she is at the end.

[Sam Taggart]

But I'm not going to take a side.

[George Severis]

What?

[Sam Taggart]

No. You guys have different ideas, but I do.

[Rostam]

What is your idea?

[Sam Taggart]

I think you're both right.

[George Severis]

Do you revisit your work from that time?

[Rostam]

It's funny. I was on a kcr. I visited kcrw, the radio station, and they were playing before they interviewed me, they were playing some songs that I'd produced in my career, and I literally hadn't heard them, a couple of them, in a decade or two. And I was like, oh, this came out pretty good. But there is a thing where when you're finishing an album, you start to attach a lot of stress to the completion, where you're just like, I really want to get this right. And you have to listen to it so many times that you kind of like, you can't have any objectivity. And it's just all the colors start to turn into gray. And you're like, I don't know what that is. I don't feel necessarily connected to that anymore. I don't know what that is. And then you just have to wait, you know? And it's like you kind of forget. Forget what it was. And then you hear it again, you're like, oh, that's pretty good.

[George Severis]

Well, the longer time, because I had this experience, I was, I put out a comedy special and imagine doing that, but for jokes that are supposed to be funny and you have to listen to them and watch them literally like 57 times. Obviously they're not going to be. It's like repeating a word and then it sounds weird in your head because you've repeated it so many times. But I actually think what waiting does is all your ties to it get cut. So then you can actually view it as an objective, quasi objective viewer because you have new context for it and you can be like, oh, this is pretty good.

[Rostam]

Yeah,

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[George Severis]

I turned off news altogether.

[Rostam]

I hate to say it, but I

[Dr. Joy]

don't trust much of anything.

[George Severis]

It's the rage bait.

[Rostam]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[America 250 Announcer]

If we got clear facts, maybe we

[Rostam]

could calm down a little.

[Sam Taggart]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America with my

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[George Severis]

I was just at the Rilo Kiley reunion tour.

[Rostam]

Amazing.

[George Severis]

And it made me think that all these bands from that era are like revisiting. Do you have any desire not to Wait, that's not where I'm going.

[Rostam]

No, no, no, no. I actually, I want to. I want to tell like a. There's like a story that's related to Girls, Rilo Kiley, and my career as a producer that I want to tell.

[George Severis]

Quick. Let's hear it.

[Rostam]

But, but do you want me to answer your question first?

[George Severis]

I just, I think you've, you're. You're someone who's incredibly prolific and is always like moving forward and doing something new. I think you're not reheating your own nachos, to use today's parlance. But I'm wondering if you ever have the desire to either completely revisit old work in the sense of for the 10th anniversary of an album, doing a tour for it or something, or reinterpret it, do Rostam's version, do a quasi remix album or something like that, or are you just not interested in the past at all?

[Rostam]

I don't think I don't come down hard and fast. It's not a binary for me.

[Sam Taggart]

So it's not reason or season.

[Rostam]

Exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

Somewhere in between.

[George Severis]

So what is a story about Jenny Lewis?

[Rostam]

Jenny Lewis is somebody that I got to know in what is it? Maybe 09 10. And I remember she asked me and no one had ever asked me this before. She was like, will you come play keyboard in a recording session for me? And I really thought about it, and I was like, I don't. I don't really do that. I don't think I'm that person. And so I was like, I don't think I'm the right person to do that, but let me write a piece of music and send it to you, and maybe we can turn that into a song. And so a year later, I did write a piece of music with Jenny in mind. I sent it to it. I sent it to Jenny. She came up with a top line right away, within a few days. And we recorded it, and it was Girls. It's a closing track of an episode of Girls.

[George Severis]

Wait, which song is it?

[Rostam]

It's called Completely Not Me.

[George Severis]

And it never ended up being on a Jenny Lewis album.

[Rostam]

It was never on an album. It was just on the Girls soundtrack.

[George Severis]

Whoa.

[Rostam]

So go dig up that song. It's a really good song. I love it. I'm proud of it.

[George Severis]

Oh, I love Jenny Lewis. That's all I have to say about that.

[Sam Taggart]

That's all I have to say about that.

[Rostam]

Do you guys add music to the podcast? Like, could. Could someone play it? Oh, yeah, we could play.

[George Severis]

I think if we play, like, if we play only a small clip of it.

[Rostam]

Okay. That'd be nice.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[George Severis]

We should Google will do it. And now it's gonna be on the closing credits of straighter lab 15 years later.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

There is one episode of Girls that I do think really stands the test of time, which is the Panic.

[George Severis]

Panic in Central Park.

[Rostam]

Yes.

[George Severis]

Yep.

[Rostam]

And I just listened to Chris Abbott on Sam Fragasso's podcast.

[George Severis]

I just saw him on stage.

[Rostam]

I went to see that recently, too.

[George Severis]

He's so good in it.

[Rostam]

So good.

[George Severis]

He's, like, an incredible talent.

[Rostam]

Incredible. But that was another thing about watching the pilot. He's so different.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

His energy is so different in that show.

[George Severis]

I'm trying to think. I'm sure we know some of the people that the Girls characters are based on, not to put too fine a point on it.

[Rostam]

Interesting.

[George Severis]

And it is, like, so funny now to look back and be like, so this is who that was.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Hannah's sd.

[Rostam]

I actually don't know if I. I might not be in that same camp with you. I didn't go to St. Anne's I

[George Severis]

didn't go to St. Anne's yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know who.

[George Severis]

I mean. Marnie is famously based on Audrey Gellman. Who? We know you've.

[Sam Taggart]

Who's that?

[George Severis]

All right.

[Rostam]

I don't actually know. I mean, I've heard the name, but

[Sam Taggart]

I haven't even heard the name. This is my first time hearing this.

[George Severis]

She's the founder of the wing. We're gonna cut this.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, I guess I do remember that happening.

[George Severis]

And then. Wait, wait.

[Rostam]

We're allowed to be like, we're gonna cut this?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. When we say it.

[Rostam]

Oh, you guys say. You guys have stratio lab privileges.

[Sam Taggart]

This is one of our biggest disagreements is I love to keep in the parts where we're flopping the most.

[George Severis]

Well, I'm not flopping. I'm just talking about people I want to.

[Rostam]

I didn't say anything about flopping.

[Sam Taggart]

Rostom said you were flopping.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God.

[Sam Taggart]

We cut it out. We cut it out. But he said it. He said it really loudly.

[George Severis]

Hey, since we're not. Since all of this is gonna be cut out, are there any questions you want us to ask you that we haven't asked yet?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, since this is gonna get cut out.

[Rostam]

Not really. Like I said, I don't love it when, like, podcasts enter promo mode, you know?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

It's so funny, because we were thinking about. We were like, we respect you. And we're like, rossim's here to promote an album. And we both did way more research than we normally would do for an episode. I was reading, literally, like, a New York mag profile of you from 2017.

[Rostam]

Wow.

[George Severis]

Where it was premised around. In the beginning of the profile, you're holding a mug, and by the end, you're not holding it, and you were outside, and the person writing the profile, who's actually a friend of mine, is like, where did the mug go? But Rostam had to run off, so I couldn't ask him.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that's so interesting, because even in this recording, he has a mug.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And it's still there. It could disappear at any time, because

[Rostam]

I know that's definitely. There was a vibe around the profiles of me from 2017, where they're like. Like, he doesn't know what he's gonna do. He's a journeyman. He's, like, lost. He just left Vampire Weekend. Who is he? He doesn't know who he is. He doesn't know what he's gonna do. And now it's like, okay, I did it for 10 years. Now people write about me in a different way, which.

[George Severis]

Well, now it's like, he's finally ready to talk about Vampire Weekend, which. Did you notice we have not mentioned the. We have not said the words Vampire Weekend this entire time. Cause we were like.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, we were like, what if he. What if he gets mad at us for saying those words?

[Rostam]

No, I wouldn't. Absolutely.

[George Severis]

And we don't even have a reason why we think you would get mad. We were just. We just don't know. You're like, it's not our place to say the words Vampire Weekend. It's like, if you want to bring it up, it's like, if it's like, being gay and going to the family reunion and everyone being like, so are

[Sam Taggart]

you accepting but not enjoying New York? Yeah.

[George Severis]

Which is code for, did you get at the big brunch?

[Rostam]

Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

The big brunch, which also has a dark.

[George Severis]

Even when I was like, yes, exactly. When I was trying to navigate asking if you would ever do a reunion tour, but I was like, but that's not what I mean. That's not what I mean.

[Sam Taggart]

We've been being so weird about it.

[George Severis]

Yeah, we've been weird about it.

[Sam Taggart]

Could we have asked you anything that would make you mad?

[Rostam]

Yeah, probably not. I feel like I'm in my Zen era.

[George Severis]

You are in your Zen era.

[Rostam]

I'm unflappable.

[George Severis]

Do you feel like you were ever not in your Zen era?

[Sam Taggart]

When were you flappable?

[Rostam]

I think. I mean, I think. Yeah, definitely was. Yeah. There was things. There was an air. There was eras in my life where I was much less secure. I think I. I, like, found security in the last, like, 10 years, honestly, I. I think, like, leaving Vampire Weekend was important in that and. And making a choice of just, like. I actually like, not being connected to anything so explicitly. Like, it's kind of scary for a second, but I was like, no, this is, like. This is like, you know, what is right for you. You know, I think that's maybe what

[George Severis]

I was trying to get at with the, like, 2010s, how Vampire Weekend meant something so specific in the 2010s.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And I would imagine that leaving regardless of any sort of specific or personal things with the band, it was just being suffocated by that context. You are something that is emblematic of that era, and now you are free to be any other sort of thing you want to be.

[Rostam]

Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I see where you're coming from. I don't know if I fully resonate with it. I also feel like, for me, like, one thing that I love doing, which I didn't get to do too much in my 20s, but I've done a lot of. In my 30s is working with women. And, like, most of the records that I've made in the last decade have been with women, and I love being able to do that. And I almost felt like I was, like, lying to myself or something, not doing that. I mean, I love. I've always loved music made by women. I love working with women completely. To go back to my thing, I'm not. I don't know. I'm not super into gender in that way. Like.

[George Severis]

Well, you were also being, like, in a weird way, erased when it was like, white band, Vampire Weekend, White straight band.

[Rostam]

I problematize. But also, Ezra being Jewish was like. People were like, exactly. It's like people would erase that too. So, like, the more. The complexities were more like. But we knew that, and we kind of like. Well, we were like, yeah, let them think what they want to think.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[Rostam]

And some people got it, and some people were not able to.

[George Severis]

But I remember having arguments about this, like, at the time, because I was one of the people who got it. Not to be a bitch.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, of course. No, I. It's. It's so funny.

[Rostam]

What year were you, like, what. What years of your life was like, 08.

[Sam Taggart]

The first album came. The first vampire album came out. My first year of college.

[Rostam]

Oh, cool.

[Sam Taggart]

I was, you know, I got a leak of it.

[Rostam]

Oh, nice.

[Sam Taggart]

And we were like, me and my.

[George Severis]

We.

[Sam Taggart]

I went to uva, which is pretty, like, fratty.

[Rostam]

You don't need to tell me about UVA. You know, 11% of my graduating class went to UVA.

[Sam Taggart]

Right. And so it was like, we were, like, in the alts crowd. And so when that came out, we were like, fuck, we're like the only people who fucking get this shit.

[Rostam]

And then everyone else is on the lacrosse team, literally.

[Sam Taggart]

But then, you know, of course, hips. You know, that era. Then it did just become sort of, you know, the moment they're blasting Passion Pit at the frat house. I was like, my culture, like, I was cultivating.

[Rostam]

Now I see why you will never let go of khakis.

[George Severis]

You know what's hard? What I imagine is hard about.

[Rostam]

Wait, and what was your college experience?

[George Severis]

Well, unfortunately, the first time I saw you guys.

[Rostam]

Oh, I just meant in general.

[George Severis]

Oh, in general.

[Rostam]

I didn't need to keep talking about it.

[George Severis]

Well, no, we want to do this. We want to do this. Saw you at Coachella in 2014. 20. Either 12 or 13. It was modern vampires.

[Rostam]

Yes. That was 13.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

I didn't even Know what Coachella was? When we hit the stage in, like, I feel like it was 08 or 09.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

We got on stage at Coachella, and I was like, what the fuck is this?

[George Severis]

You know, I. I never heard of this. I can't believe I'm. I can't believe I'm even gonna say. I can't believe I'm even gonna say what I'm about to say. But early Coachella was good. Like, it was. Like, it was so. I mean, I don't know what it was like for you as an artist. I'm sure it was such a, like, mind fuck. And there's too much going on, and it's like, too many stimuli. But as an attendee, I'm like, wait a minute. I get to go from tent to tent and see all my favorite musicians and pre. Instagram, pre. All that. It was just music fans.

[Rostam]

I think that there's always gonna be something kind of cool about Coachella. No matter what, no matter who the headliners are, no matter if you're into it or not, there's always gonna be something kind of cool about it.

[George Severis]

I mean, let's hope so.

[Sam Taggart]

This is a hot take.

[Rostam]

It's a hot take. There's some flavor from the original early days that.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

And I think a big part of it is that they still get good musicians. The rest of it can be completely all branded. AI. You know, every tent is sponsored by a different bank that only does business in Israel. But then at the core of it, it's still gonna be good music. And that's, I think, what I remember

[Rostam]

that year 2013, they were like, you guys got the sunset slot. And we were like, oh, cool. And you're opening up for the Rolling Stones. And we're like, oh, that's amazing. You were there, so, you know, that's not actually what happened. And it ended up being like, the Rolling Stones had to pull out for some reason.

[George Severis]

Right. I was about to say, I don't remember the Rolling Stones.

[Rostam]

The Red Hot Chili Peppers took their spot. And then because. For whatever reason, because the Red Hot Chili Peppers took the Rolling Stones spot. One of Nick Cave's two bands, which were both playing at Coachella, for whatever reason, took up the space between us and the Chili Peppers. So we kind of went in. It was sold to us. It's like, you're opening for the Rolling Stones, and then when the cookie crumbled,

[George Severis]

it was just like, you have the 4pm slot.

[Rostam]

No, it was still like, the sundown. The thing about Sundown At Coachella is so dusty that the sun is sundown is kind of gray sometimes.

[George Severis]

Have you ever done Sasquatch? Yes, because I saw. The first time I ever saw Chaim was at Sasquatch and they did the gorge, the big stage.

[Rostam]

I actually. I did it as Rostam. It was one of my best shows ever as a solo artist. Yeah.

[George Severis]

And that was when I fell in love with. Because they only had that one first album and they basically just did that album from beginning to end. Although they didn't do the title track, which I thought was an insane decision, but neither here nor there. Anyway, you should go. I also saw Mia there.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. Shout out.

[Rostam]

Mia was. I remember hanging out with her a little bit at Coachella. That first Coachella, I think it was 08.

[George Severis]

Take me back.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, God, we're doing it.

[George Severis]

We're doing Nostalgia for the Hipster 2010.

[Sam Taggart]

And thank you for allowing us to do that. We both wanted to so bad, but we were like, don't be nostalgic. Don't be nostalgic. And then we did. Anyway, let's do our final segment. Our final segment is called Shout Outs. And in the grand Strait tradition of the radio shout out, we will shout out anything that we are enjoying. People, places, things, ideas. We make them up on the spot and we go first. And then you will do one. George, do you have one?

[George Severis]

Let me think, let me think, let me think. Do you have one?

[Dr. Joy]

Sure.

[Sam Taggart]

What's up, freaks, losers and perverts around the globe. I want to give a shout out to the new Kim Petras album. You know, this girl has been through hell and back and we have been there for every single second of it. And you know when someone has this sort of ups and downs, you say, what the hell's going on over there in that camp? And you start to get worried and you say, I'm worried that no one's interested in charge over there. And then the new album comes out and you listen to. And you go, wait, she kind of did it. It's like really good. It's fun. It's different. She's still herself. I'm saying, thank you. I'm saying you have your head on straight. I'm saying I get it. You know, sometimes it just takes a second for your head to get back on straight. And I want to say, when people are generally disrespectful of her, they need to take a second and reflect, because she has done a lot. And just because maybe it's not in the traditional, this clean album format. That they think it's not as good, but it is as good. And you need to respect her. And she is queen. Shout out. Kim Petrus. Xoxo Sam.

[George Severis]

Well, you guys, I want to give a shout out to the company. Alex Mill, you make the worst clothes I've ever experienced in my life. It's actually crazy. They're made of tissue paper. I bought this shirt a week ago because once again, I decided to give you a chance after being betrayed by you multiple times over the last 15 years. But I really wanted a bright red shirt and I bought this one. The buttons are fully coming out. It's been a week. I keep ironing it, and then it becomes crinkly all over again. It looks cheap as hell. And basically what I want to shout out is like, to know that your products are so bad, but have the confidence to be like, we're basically Prada. Just like, we're gonna pay off menswear influencers to pretend our product is good. We're gonna advertise in this kind of orally color blocked way where it makes everything look better than it actually is. It really inspires me to get out there and be mediocre, but sell myself harder than ever before. Woo.

[Sam Taggart]

I gotta say, the color is nice. It's bright.

[George Severis]

At least they have that going for them. Rustin, whenever you're ready. Whenever you're ready.

[Rostam]

I would like to shout out Pluribus, which I binged really hard. And I binged it so hard that I kind of forgot how much I liked it. And as I was driving here, I saw a billboard for it and I was like, oh, wait, I really love Pluribus. And interestingly, to tap back to Zippolite, please. Watched most of it in a hotel room in Zipolite. I was just kind of in the mood to binge something at the end of the year. And it kind of hit me in the perfect time and also kind of like the perfect place because it's kind of like, you know, like this isolated.

[George Severis]

You know, a lot of people in Zipolite are in the mood to binge, if you know what I mean.

[Sam Taggart]

Rost, I met you in Zipolite once.

[Rostam]

Wow. Was I wearing clothes?

[Sam Taggart]

You had shorts on.

[Rostam]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. So it was nighttime and we were at a house.

[Rostam]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Rostam]

All right.

[George Severis]

Did you?

[Rostam]

Because I do. I do. Like, not wearing clothes.

[Sam Taggart]

Me as well. Really? Yeah.

[Rostam]

I mean, I. I feel like I didn't. Like, this is all gonna get cut anyway.

[George Severis]

No, no, no, no, no, no. This is the trailer.

[Rostam]

I think. I think it was like, in 2014, where my friend Sam took me to the beach in Provincetown, where you can take your clothes off if you want. There's no pressure to. And I was like. I was just like, oh, I like being at the beach. And I haven't liked being at the beach ever. Like, the beach. What is good about the beach? But then it's when you add, like, okay, you can get naked. You're like, okay, wait, there's things you could do at the beach that are fun. And then. Then what? What's interesting for me is, like, I don't really like going to a beach that you can't get naked at, because it's like, if you like being naked and swimming naked, it's like, why would you settle for, like, the other version of it?

[Sam Taggart]

No, I'm pretty much addicted to going to every single nude swimming location in the world.

[Rostam]

I think it's a good. It's a healthy addiction. You know, I think what it is

[George Severis]

for me is growing up, going with my family constantly, that I just. It's hard for me to, like, then read.

[Rostam]

Oh, you went to nude beaches with your family? No, but that is. I didn't. But it is a thing that is like German families. Yeah.

[George Severis]

No, grow.

[Rostam]

There's like a whole thing, like, Freya culpa, culture, whatever.

[George Severis]

No, if anything, it was the opposite. It was like we were in normal beaches, and then occasionally you would see some of the moms topless. And it was very much like something other moms did that our mom did not. And maybe I'm now realizing that is my suspicion of nudity at beaches still to this day is like, they were, like, marginalized when I was a kid.

[Sam Taggart]

Interesting. Well, Ziblite was the first.

[Rostam]

So you've never gotten naked on a beach?

[George Severis]

I mean, I have, like, on Fire island, but to be honest, I didn't like it. It doesn't make me feel more free. It makes me be like, oh, my God, my dick is out. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Well, like, what if someone, like, don't. You're with.

[Sam Taggart]

Is it like, more so you're self conscious with friends or, like, even with strangers?

[George Severis]

No, I don't care about strangers. But it is with friends. I monk, I don't like being naked in front of my friends.

[Sam Taggart]

Naked in front of my friends. And I was like, this is a bit weird at first, but you also get used to it within 20 minutes.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I think I haven't allowed myself to get used to it.

[Rostam]

I mean, it's just. It's like one of those things. Like, it's not weird if everybody's getting naked.

[George Severis]

You would think.

[Rostam]

Of course it's weird.

[George Severis]

It was for me.

[Rostam]

Interesting.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, Rostam, thank you so much for doing the podcast.

[George Severis]

It was such a delightful.

[Rostam]

Thank you guys for getting naked with me.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God.

[Sam Taggart]

Of course.

[Rostam]

It's only fun if everyone does it.

[Sam Taggart]

This was the most emotionally raw episode yet.

[George Severis]

Yeah, it was amazing. Much like Rostam's new album, American Stories, out now on all platforms.

[Rostam]

Shh.

[Sam Taggart]

Don't promo. Don't promo. No promo.

[George Severis]

I saw that you're in New York. You're doing a show in New York.

[Rostam]

Yeah, I'm playing at Webster Hall, June 18th. I'm with Jayla and Henry Solomon.

[George Severis]

I thought you said JLo first.

[Sam Taggart]

I know. I was like, cool, you booked JLo. You do love women singers, huh?

[Rostam]

Z S E L A. She is a woman singer. And she may or may not be my pan friend who collects.

[George Severis]

Wow. So if you want to meet some les guys, straight guys, go to that Webster hall show.

[Rostam]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Get. Get into her brothel of lesbian straight guys.

[Rostam]

Very cool guys. Always very cool guys.

[Sam Taggart]

Damn.

[Rostam]

Can't wait.

[Sam Taggart]

Huge. Okay, you're awesome. Bye.

[Rostam]

Thank you, guys.

[Sam Taggart]

Stradio Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio podcasts

[George Severis]

created and hosted by Sam Taggart and

[Sam Taggart]

George Severis, executive produced by Becca Ramos,

[George Severis]

produced by Casey Donahue, edited mixed by Lawrence Stumpf Social video done by Hot Dog Sandwich.

[America 250 Announcer]

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[Rostam]

did

[Sam Taggart]

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[George Severis]

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