"P!nk" w/ Daniel D'Addario

Summary

Podcast Summary: StraightioLab – Episode "P!nk" featuring Daniel D'Addario

Introduction

In the February 25, 2025 episode of StraightioLab, hosted by George Severis and Sam Taggart from the Big Money Players Network and iHeartPodcasts, the intellectual comedians delve into the multifaceted aspects of straight culture. This episode, titled "P!nk," features special guest Daniel D'Addario, a writer from Variety and author of the novel The Talent. The conversation navigates through the intersections of pop culture, literature, and personal experiences, offering listeners a reflective mirror on societal norms and personal identities.

Guest Introduction: Daniel D'Addario

The episode begins with the hosts introducing Daniel D'Addario, highlighting his dual role as a seasoned interviewer of celebrities and a novelist. D'Addario shares insights into his debut novel, The Talent, which explores the dynamics of five women competing for an award during the awards season. He emphasizes the novel's foundation in reality, blending invented characters with elements drawn from real-life experiences.

Discussion on “The Talent”

George and Sam engage D'Addario in a discussion about his novel, focusing on the balance between authentic experiences and creative invention. D'Addario explains, "[11:33] 'The situations are real. Every circumstance has a real-world analog... all the personal life stuff that's happening with him is totally made up.'" This approach allows him to craft a narrative that resonates with readers while maintaining creative freedom.

A notable point of discussion is the novel's ending. D'Addario reveals, "[12:24] 'Someone does win.'" Contrary to his initial contemplation of an open-ended conclusion, he opted for a definitive ending to provide closure. Sam appreciates this choice, stating, "[14:24] 'It's actually more subversive to have a clear winner.'"

Analyzing Pop Culture: The Case of P!nk

The core of the episode revolves around the analysis of the pop artist P!nk. D'Addario introduces the topic by comparing P!nk to other pop icons, noting her consistent adherence to a personal playbook without significant deviations or experimental risks. He observes, "[42:12] 'There's never been any kind of irreverent feeling or a feeling of kind of testing things out... she's executing her playbook.'"

Sam and George’s Perspectives on P!nk

Sam Taggart offers a critical perspective on P!nk's career trajectory, highlighting her lack of vulnerability and spontaneity compared to peers like Lady Gaga. He states, "[46:12] 'She was throwing spaghetti at the wall in this way where you were like, maybe something will come out of this.'" George concurs, adding, "[44:26] 'My mom is P!nk's biggest fan,'" which introduces a personal anecdote that humanizes the discussion.

George further theorizes P!nk's evolution, distinguishing between "pre Ellen P!nk" and "post Ellen P!nk," reflecting changes in her public persona and artistic expression. He remarks, "[44:30] 'Post Ellen is when she becomes fully like target brand. This is like, she's performing like, she's an ally and she's performing to all allies.'"

Cultural Impact and Personal Connections

The hosts discuss the broader cultural implications of P!nk's music and persona. They explore how her consistent branding affects her relatability and authenticity. Sam notes, "[52:48] 'Her music sounds the same, the aesthetic presentation is the same, the act is the same and people love it.'"

Personal connections are woven into the conversation, with references to family members who admire P!nk, adding depth to the analysis. Sam shares, "[61:13] 'My mom is a fitness instructor and loves P!nk,'" illustrating how P!nk's music intersects with everyday lives.

Insights and Conclusions

The episode culminates with reflections on the nature of fame, authenticity in pop culture, and the evolving dynamics of audience relationships with artists. D'Addario emphasizes the importance of closure in storytelling, while Sam and George ponder the sustainability of P!nk's brand in an ever-changing musical landscape.

A memorable conclusion by D'Addario encapsulates the episode's theme: "[68:14] 'Honestly, I'm about to put on P!nk and raise my glass as we close out this episode.'"

Notable Quotes

• Daniel D'Addario [11:33]: "The situations are real. Every circumstance has a real-world analog... all the personal life stuff that's happening with him is totally made up."
• Daniel D'Addario [12:24]: "Someone does win."
• Sam Taggart [42:12]: "There's never been any kind of irreverent feeling or a feeling of kind of testing things out... she's executing her playbook."
• George Severis [44:26]: "My mom is P!nk's biggest fan."
• Sam Taggart [52:48]: "Her music sounds the same, the aesthetic presentation is the same, the act is the same and people love it."
• Sam Taggart [61:13]: "My mom is a fitness instructor and loves P!nk."
• Daniel D'Addario [68:14]: "Honestly, I'm about to put on P!nk and raise my glass as we close out this episode."

Conclusion

This episode of StraightioLab offers a nuanced exploration of straight culture through the lens of pop artist P!nk, enriched by Daniel D'Addario's literary insights. The hosts skillfully balance critique with personal anecdotes, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the subject matter. By interspersing notable quotes with timestamps, the summary captures the essence of the discussion, making it accessible and engaging for both regular listeners and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[George Severis]

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[Sam Taggart]

Honestly.

[Dan Daddario]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

Wasn't that delicious? So good.

[Sam Taggart]

Your bill, ladies.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I got it. No, I got it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Seriously, I insist.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I insisted first.

[Dan Daddario]

Don't be silly.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You'll not be silly.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

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[Sam Taggart]

Rock, paper, scissors.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Shoot. No.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

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[Unknown Speaker 4]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

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[Unknown Speaker 4]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

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[Unknown Speaker 4]

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[Unknown Speaker 2]

Hootie Hoo. Everybody. This is George with some show announcements. If you are in New York, Philly or Boston, you have a few more chances to see the hour of standup that I have been touring on and off for the last year and a half. This will be the last time I do this material before I tape it in April so I would love to see some of you there. I'll be workshopping some of it and reworking some other parts and sanding out the rough edges. It'll be really fun. If you are in New York, I'll be at Union hall on March 5th and 6th. And then I'll be at Joe's Pub on Monday, March 24th. And if you're in Philly, I'll be at Philamoca March 12th. And if you're in Boston, in the Boston area, I'll be in Somerville at The Rockwell on March 20. There is an early show at 7 and a late show at 9. I have had such a great time touring this hour over the last few months. Thank you to everyone that has already come. Like I said, will be the last time I do it. And then I can't wait to write new stuff and I can't wait to tour again. And that's pretty much it. You can find [e-mail] George Severis and it's in my Instagram bio and everywhere else where you might think it will be. And that is it for me. Enjoy the episode. Love ya.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Podcast starts now. Abracadabra and unana. Hello and welcome.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Wait, what is. What is the amor una na?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

George, you can't ask what the real lyrics are. Sorry, you are. That is like, the whole point is that you can make it up and it's your own.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, well, okay, so I will say I agree with that. However, then when I was tasked with doing that when we were at that party, I actually struggled to mouth anything.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Well, I think, okay, first of all, George and I went to a party in Los Angeles, California.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's right. We went to a party in Los Angeles, California. That was. It was announced ahead of time that at midnight they would play Abracadabra. So we all knew that at midnight they would be pressing play on Abracadabra. And, you know, you had to sort of plan where you wanted to be so that you could be in an ideal place to be open to that.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, I really loved the New Year's energy of that. And there was like this sort of. This. This anxiety in a positive way, sort of an excitement in the air of like, are we going to be like, well, I can't go to the bathroom because it's 10 minutes till midnight?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Well, you are. What you're not saying is that we were quite literally in line to get drinks and decided to leave the line that we were already in because we were like, this line is too long. We can't be sort of third in line yelling tequila soda while they are pressing planet Abracadabra. But it did make me realize I'm now thinking, why not instill that kind of New Year's energy into just whatever you want, even if it's not at midnight. Like, you know, there are people have all different kinds of schedules. Even if you just have a dinner party and you're like, by the way, at 9pm we will, you know, play a Tori Amos music video on YouTube that we will project.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I actually think it is such a great idea and it gives people sort of a clear, like, it's like an outline of the night. Like it gives you a framework to work within because it's so amorphous. If it's just like Abercadabra will play at some point, it's like, well, yeah, I would hope so.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

But if it's at midnight, I'm like, okay, now my night, it has a structure to it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah. And what I'm about to say, I think will almost sound against the spirit of this podcast. But okay, here's the thing. You would think like the Gregorian calendar and like time, clock based time would be something you or I would consider straight. I think that would be. I could easily imagine, you know, an AI generated episode where our straight topic is clocks and clock based time and we're like, oh, well, yeah, straight people love to organize time, whereas queer people love to live out loud. Yeah, okay, yeah, so I get it.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

First of all, I want that give me the AI version of our podcast.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

To be clear, I'm ready to retire.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And I give away my rights. I give away my voice.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Literally. I'm ready. And consider this. I'm posting Mark Zuckerberg. I give you my right, my. The rights to my voice and likeness.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Take in the, in the, in the tone of. Take my wife.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Take my data, Take my data. So, so. But I'm about to make the opposite point, which is I think because of the absolutely declining, if not non existent, trust in institutions, it's almost like time is all we have. The government doesn't work any official buildings you're seeing on the streets. You go in, it's literally someone doing ketamine. Nothing is working right now. And no one has trust in any institutions, be it the government, the media, what have you. So I'm almost like a re. Embrace of time, of linear. Time is in its own way countercultural.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Right now you're saying that time is the ultimate truth and that like kind of.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah. And so I'm like, let's like, rather than have it be this like the ethos of like, oh, well, the Invite is at 9, but of course you want to be fashionably late. Maybe we try out. What if we went in a more militaristic direction what if we really, like, adhere to the clock?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

See, I actually love that. And I think socially we need that. I want to push. There's something in our lives where it's like, we're basically, like, building in a buffer for trailers for every event in our lives. Like, it's like, well, there's going to be 45 minutes of trailers, so we can be 30 minutes late.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Let's have, first of all, a standing ovation for that. That is one of the most genius things I've ever heard. Keep going.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I'm like. I'm sort of like, enough. Like, I actually want someone to be like, the party's at 8. Get there at 8. I went to actually a party thrown by the same guy through this abracadabra party. It was his boyfriend's 40th, and he was like, arrive promptly at 8. And I was like, now that is a fun invite. And it worked because everyone was there with it. By 8:15, everyone was there. And I was like, yeah, you're paying for the space. Like, let's get there on time and fully enjoy it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, it's tough. It's tough because even as we're. As we're making this argument, I'm, like, stressed because I'm like, well, I don't want to. I don't want to be advocating for a world in which I can be a little late. And the trailer thing is actually a perfect. A perfect metaphor because here's the thing. On the one side, you have Regal. Regal Cinemas. The trailers are quite literally 25 to 30 minutes. You can actually show up an hour after the start time of the film, and you'll get there at the credits, but then you'll have like. And actually, our guests will be able to really fact check me on this. But there are other theaters like that are. I want to. It's not the Angelica, but there are other theaters that quite literally start on time with no trailers, and they play the trailers before the start time, which I also don't think is acceptable.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I agree.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I think the perfect middle is sort of like. Like, I think if you go to Film Forum, it's like they'll have, like, a few trailers. It'll be like seven minutes, and then.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

The movie starts 10 to 15 minutes.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

But how do you mandate that? Because that is basically what it is to be fashionably late.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yes, I agree. I'm all in.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

But of course. Sorry, I'm almost done. But of course, to have a common conception of fashionably late, you need to have a common language. And in A world where no one trusts institutions, you could never actually have a comm agreed upon definition of fashionably late. Which is why in order to avoid everything just like going to dust, you have to insist upon a specific start time. Oh, you know what I mean?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Of course. This is. I mean, you made a really amazing point. And I also want to say, I love when you are about to make a point and you go, sorry, I'm almost done. There's something about that that's really charming.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Where it's like, yeah, thank you.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You like, it's like you can't not make the point. Like if someone were to stop you right then you would like potentially have a stroke or something.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It's sort of the blue balls.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

The blue balls of ideas.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, Like I sort of have to.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, you're like, fuck, I have to have an idea. Can we address an elephant in the room before we bring our guest in?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Okay. What is it?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I kind of have a cold.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

What?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I have like the slightest cold.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Like, have you noticed how I'm raspy? Yes.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And I was actually. You're actually stealing my thunder a bit. I was like, God, I'm going to be so like the sick one. And like you're going to be like, everyone's gonna be like, wow, he sounds so different than normal normally. His voice is so deeply smooth.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Well, I almost suggested booking a studio last minute. Cause I was sort of like in the mood to not have to deal with tech. And then I was like, what if I'm the one to suggest booking a studio? I show up with our guest, I'm literally coughing and sick. It's like I'm directly giving him. Coming directly from the open air market. I do have a guess as to what happened, which is that we both got sick at the abracadabra party. Just time wise. I think that maybe made sense.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

That's considered.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We were in a very enclosed, non, non ventilated space.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

That's actually such a great point. That's fully what happened.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We need to bring in our guest.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I think that's an amazing.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Because I now have blue balls for bringing in our guest.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yes, I think we should bring in our guest who you know, were famously bad at plugging things, but did in fact write a book that by the time this episode comes out will be available for.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Will be out. And it is called the Talent and it is by Dan Daddario who is our guest. Welcome, Dan.

[Sam Taggart]

Hi guys. Thanks for having me.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I want to say. And listen, I'll say it. This is a controversial thing to open up about.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

This is very controversial.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I can already tell this is the first time.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Oh, I can't believe you're saying it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I, I'm actually as guilty of this as you are. So I.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

We're both very guilty.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We're both guilty. This is the first time we have had a guest on promoting a book where we have both at the time of recording finished the book. And by the way, I don't want anyone to cut at every other point. We had like read part or most.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Honey, we tried, we always try or.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Read like multiple reviews. Like I'm not going in unprepared. But I, but this is the first time each of us has read cover to cover and we can like we're not going to spoil anything. But we could if we wanted.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

We could absolutely. If we wanted to.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, the fate of my book is in your guys hands. You cannot tell them who wins at the end.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

And I know you want.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

See, I was about to, I was about to spoil. Well, I'll say this about the book. How do I put this? It's the perfect. Like you actually do give closure is what I was gonna say. Because the entire time I was afraid as I was reading it, which by the way, I enjoyed it immensely as I was reading it I was like, if he fucks this up, I'm gonna be so fucking pissed.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I have to agree. There was like one moment like you know, three fourths through and I was like, oh no, what if it's not satisfying? Like I was like I'm, I'm, I'm. I care now. And what if I don't get, what if I don't get to blow my load?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And by the way, it's. Sorry Dan, I know we keep interacting by interrupting you, but it's like if you had ended it in a way more open ended way, I would have had to pretend that was actually like so cool because I would have had to like, I would have wanted to seem sophisticated and I would have been like, you know, thank God. Like you didn't, you didn't like you know, go so cliche and have a real ending. Go ahead.

[Sam Taggart]

When I was planning it and never apologized for interrupting me with such wonderful praise. Wow. Damn. When I was writing it I had this devil on my shoulder being like go Emma Cline the guest mode. Go Emma Cline the guest mode. Because spoiling a three year old book that I love. But at the end of that book you think there's gonna be a resolution and it's just kind of like, well. And then something happened. I don't wanna say what at the end. And I thought, part of me did think maybe it would be so about the journey, not the destination. To paraphrase in reverse. The brutalist. To have it just be like, it doesn't even matter who wins. Who cares? We're kind of putting the cart before the horse because it's about a fake awards race. And I think what you're saying is you feel very satisfied by finding out who wins at the end, which I'm happy about. Yes.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And someone does win. So it is. And do you want to. Sorry to be so conventional and so Barbara Walters, but would you like to just explain what the book is about?

[Sam Taggart]

Sure. It's about five women who are nominated for an award during award season and the rivalries and friendships that develop between them as they kind of battle it out.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Correct. Good job.

[Sam Taggart]

Thanks. I read it. I studied it really hard.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Dan read it too, actually. Cover to cover. What I want to say actually is, I think because the kind of cliche of the Oscars or an award season is like, quote, unquote, it's an honor just to be nominated. I actually do think you're subverting that by having a clear winner.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You know what I mean? It's actually more subversive to have a clear. I think it would have been a cop out to be like, it doesn't matter who wins because it's like, well, that's what they want you to think. But it actually does, right?

[Sam Taggart]

It actually does a lot. And those who win are really happy and those who lose are really sad.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah. I also want to say, since you mentioned the guest, when people don't give you an ending, I'm like, you know, my ass got onto Google the moment I finished that book and said the guest ending explained, like, I'm like, what the hell was that?

[Sam Taggart]

And you probably found, like, the worst articles in the world because everyone thinks that she died and became a ghost. And I'm like, no, no, no, no.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It'S not the ghost. Yeah, it's the guest.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, exactly. You're misreading the title. But you've got three of the right letters, but two are wrong.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Talking about straight shooters, Actually, I want to say I loved the ending of the Guest. What? And then I found out. I found out that I'm in the minority and all these people don't like it.

[Sam Taggart]

I love it for the guest. It would have been wrong for my book, but 100%. 100% I actually adore it. And I think people who don't like it. Sorry, Sam. Are wrong.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I agree.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Wow. Unbelievable.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You know, sometimes I can be a little stupid when it comes to plot. Plot, I'll say. A plot based film even. And I didn't understand part of the ending of Inside man, which I rewatched for the second time and still didn't understand it recently. And I was trying to find an article that explained it, and literally no one could fully give me what I wanted.

[Sam Taggart]

I find that so surprising.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I agree. I mean, I get that he was inside. I'm not an idiot.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

He's called Inside Man.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

There was one scene with Jodie Foster that I was like, unclear what deal was being made with her and with the politician she was working with, who I think was a mayor. And I was like, can someone just explain this to me? And no one could. Sorry, Collider.com.

[Sam Taggart]

I think on an infinite timeline, you will get that article because, like, every movie that's on stream now. I was on the People magazine website the other day, just my. My daily spin. And one of the most recent articles was what happens at the end of Shutter Island Explained? And I was like, okay, well, I got that.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I got Shutter Island.

[Sam Taggart]

I think it must just be on Netflix or something. But, yeah, no, it's like, okay, it's like someone in the SEO farm will write that article for you eventually.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, if enough AI takes over, you'll get that article.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

AI takes over.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It's funny to have read the book because part of me is like, I'm like, okay, quiz me.

[Sam Taggart]

Quiz you about what happens.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We want credit for reading the book.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, yeah, quiz me. Quiz me. Quiz me. Quiz me.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Instead of using it to actually have a productive conversation with you. We're just, like, proud of ourselves for reading it.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm proud of you both too, especially because I know you guys are major readers. So it's not like, oh, you went out of your way to read it. It's more like you took time away from the Joan Didions of the world.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Exact. Constantly reading.

[Sam Taggart]

Exactly.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And talk about women that are telling themselves stories in order to live by the way the story stopped. They would decease.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I did find it fun to know you personally and read your book as, like, as a peek in. I love when you're like, sort of. I love to see you be like, a bitch. Like, I love to see you be a bitch through, like, through this world.

[Sam Taggart]

Thank you.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Like, there was one character, like the SNL sort of scenes I found really funny as A peek into your perspective.

[Sam Taggart]

I was curious what you guys would make of that scene in particular. Basically, not to do the whole synopsis, but one of the women goes on an SNL style show and gets led astray and it goes really wrong. And, yeah, I don't know, it was all about kind of taking a situation that could happen and heightening it. I don't really think that would happen in that way, but it was kind of funny to toy with.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I mean, I could definitely see someone, you know, who wants to, like, be in on the joke and who's just, like, is saying yes to everything and is excited about, like, being on SNL suddenly doing something that is perceived as super offensive to someone else.

[Sam Taggart]

It kind of came to mind because when Jennifer Lawrence was nominated for an Oscar, which is, like, ancient history now, her monologue was like, I'm gonna roast my other nominees. And she was like, jessica Chastain, you suck. Just kidding. I think you're really nice. And I was like, okay, but what if she didn't have the publicist there saying, like, no, now be nice.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Which used to happen. Or, like, I don't know, I feel like people. Julia Roberts would just sort of, like, give a comment that was bitchy in the 90s.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, yeah. Or her T shirt that she made.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Or the T shirt.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Wait, were there any other bitchy moments that you liked, or was that the main one?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Well, that one in particular. I also loved the, like, toxic gay cast member that, like, was the one that led her astray. She's iconic and stuff.

[Sam Taggart]

I think a lot of the book is about how gay men relate to women, which I hope you're not just there, but throughout, I tried to have each of the women have a moment with a toxic gay man. Not to get too into it, but early on, when one of them meets the flight attendant, there's just a lot of moments where I was like, okay, how can we make this about a gay guy even though it's about five women?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

No, I loved that. I did love seeing the peaks of gay guy come through. Like, and I love, like, yeah, the. That's the Jenny. Jenny character. Like, everyone stands her because she's kind of a flop. Like, I was like, that's so. Yeah, I was like, damn. So true.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, that is. The thing is, is I think that people in our cohort, like, the more someone flops, the more we're like, I love her, like, thinking of abracadabra, would it hit as hard if she hadn't just flopped in the most major way in her whole care. Like, if there hadn't. Without a joker too. Can there be an abracadabra?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

That's an amazing question.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It's true. And even, I mean, I know that Bruno Mars song is, like, the number one song in the universe, but it's like, as far as we're concerned, it's a flop, so that also counts as something that just flops.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And it's like, I like the song, but it's like, I would never put it on. Like, when would I listen to it?

[Sam Taggart]

No.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Whereas, like, disease is a flop too, but it's a flop that I love. I love disease. I'm gonna go ahead and love that one.

[Sam Taggart]

Disease is secretly incredible.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Disease. I honestly think disease is, like, maybe better than abracadabra.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Not so provocative. So provocative.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And actually, the video is really good too.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Oh, I do love the video.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, the video is really good. Hey, it's all one cohesive whole. It's like mayhem is like, Okay, I was about to say it's giving art pop, which I meant as a compliment in that it's a cohesive body of work. But I think that to the wider world, that's not a compliment.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It's hard to tell. It's really hard to tell these days.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It's certainly not a compliment if you are Lady Gaga, because she hates it.

[Sam Taggart]

I saw a woman walking down the street, like, around our age, a woman walking down the street the other day in the neighborhood where I live, wearing an art pop logo cap, but she was otherwise just kind of in, like, outdoor voices with New Yorker tote. And I was like, yeah, you are one interesting chica. Like, I want to follow you. Like, how did this enter your wardrobe?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I wonder if it was just like, she worked in digital media during that time and was sent art pop merchandise also in New Yorker tote. And she's just. She has no idea. She was just like, oh, isn't it fun? I love Alejandro.

[Sam Taggart]

I want to circle back on something. In the intro when I was banned from speaking, which is the perfect amount of trailers is the IFC center, where it's like seven minutes in and out. And the other perfect thing about that theater is there are not assigned seats. And you can just kind of have the serendipity of, I have seven minutes to find somewhere good to sit. It's not so regimented. It's not so militaristic. But, yeah, I like that length of trailers.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I agree with you. I think IFC center is a great first of all, perfect Location. You literally just, like, leave the subway and you enter the building.

[Sam Taggart]

Correct.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Love it. However, you do get the sense that it could be a mouse at any point under a seat. And I. And I really don't. I say that with love for all independent cinema and for all independent movie theaters. And I go there often. In fact, I just saw Emilia Perez there for the second time.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Wow.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah. It's the whole thing.

[Sam Taggart]

Gotta support her politics.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yes, exactly. But don't you. And there is something charmingly. What's the word? I don't know, like old New York. Like. Like the smallest. The smaller rooms at IFC are basically just like a tv, Like a sort of living room. Slightly larger widescreen tv.

[Sam Taggart]

Right. Is that where you saw Amelia Perez? Or was it a sellout crowd? Yeah. People hanging off.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, you would think. You know, you would think it was actually post controversy. Post controversy. I was like, so who now is going to Emilia Perez at IFC Center? Turns out it was. Was me and maybe four other people.

[Sam Taggart]

And seeing it a second time. Not to hold your feet to the fire, but was it just about picking up the nuances? Did you fall asleep the first time? What happened?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

No, that's a great question. So the honest answer is that it was the only thing playing at the time. And we had just had a big meal and wanted to just lay down and watch something, and that was what was playing. But there was a part of me that thought it would be just a funny bit, that I'm someone who has seen Emilia Perez twice and I paid to see it in theaters.

[Sam Taggart]

I've also seen it twice. I didn't pay for it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Well, you're a professional.

[Sam Taggart]

Credit. It was for work, though. It was like, obligation. I don't hate it. I think it's, like, fine. I think Selina is fun in it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I must disagree on that.

[Sam Taggart]

You don't think she's fun in it?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I think she's notable. I see that for both of you now. That is notable.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I don't know. I think there's just a reactionary part. Not reactionary politically, but there's a part of me that wants to be contrarian in some way.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And maybe that filtered into my view of it the second time. But the second time, my big takeaway was like, carlos, Sofia Gascon is a great actress, regardless of her political views. I was actually more impressed with her than with Zoe the second time around.

[Sam Taggart]

Interesting. It's like, this is. It's really rare to get a new example of separating the art from the artist. Now that Most of the directors we say that about have stopped working. And so it's like, wow, how refreshing to have this debate once again.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It's really refreshing.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It's amazing. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

Wasn't that delicious? So good.

[Sam Taggart]

Your bill, ladies.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I insist. I insisted first.

[Sam Taggart]

Don't be silly.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You don't be silly.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it.

[Sam Taggart]

Rock, paper, scissors.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Shoot, shoot. No.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

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[Unknown Speaker 4]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

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[Unknown Speaker 4]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

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[Unknown Speaker 4]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

Honestly.

[Sam Taggart]

Honestly.

[Dan Daddario]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

I have. Okay, wait, about the book. I feel like I have, like, two more things I want to ask, please. So, like, it's so based in reality. Like, how did you balance, like, pulling from real people versus, like, invention?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Okay, Jenna Bush Hager over here.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I'm sorry, I'm just.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

There was, like, some stuff. I was like, wait, I'm getting my damn credit.

[Sam Taggart]

Mom, that's a great question. I was not prepared for that question. No, I was. So all the situations are real. Every circumstance has a real world analog. Like the comedy show you mentioned, the film festivals, all that stuff happened. And I think eagle eyed readers can say, this person looks a little bit like this real world person. That person looks a little bit like that real world person. But I would try to be pretty rigorous with myself and be like, I don't know what actually goes on in the minds or personal lives of these celebrities. And so all the personal life stuff that's happening with him is totally made up. There's a character in the novel who is an alcoholic where elements of her career are drawn from a couple people I've encountered in my professional life. But then all the personal life stuff, I was just like, okay, she's being Tennessee Williams heroine. It doesn't need to have any real world backing. It's just made up. So it was kind of fun to take it and run with it in that way.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I have a question. One of the women in the book is starring in a Maria Callas biopic. Did you think of that before Maria was announced?

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. Yeah. No, the book was done when Maria. The book was. The first draft was done when Maria was announced. And I finished the second draft before Maria came out.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Got it.

[Sam Taggart]

I almost changed it because I saw this documentary about Maria Callas at the New York Film Festival, like, eight years ago and was like, file this away. That was like one woman who lived a very interesting life. You could do something with that. And then crazily, I was like, this movie has stolen my thunder. I must change it. I was gonna make her a different opera singer. And then I was like, no, it could be funny if this movie goes somewhere. I was rooting for Angelina throughout this season because I like the movie Maria, actually. I thought it was good, but also I was like, viral promo, viral promo. Come on, come on, let's make it happen. And. And it didn't get across the finish line, but my thoughts were with her the whole way.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I mean, there is something metatextual. Like there Is something not to spoil anything, but like the film Maria, the way it sort of didn't reach the heights that it was meant to reach echoes certain parts of the book.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. Well, I think it's just funny because just thinking about the Oscars, I don't know if this is coming out before or after the Oscars. But like, before, Before. Okay. Feb. But like something like Angelina Jolie plays Maria Callas. It's like done pre sold, like, give her the Oscar now. And then people, not me, I liked it, but people watch it and are like, oh, okay. So it's actually less than the sum of its parts. And it's funny the way that can happen. And yeah, I think that in the book I tried to show how even though all the pieces might be there, you can't control the way you're perceived.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, I know.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Which is almost actually a kind of in a weird way, an optimistic stance. Because actually what it shows you is that like, the art still matters. Like, it's not just about fitting pieces together and making a movie that on paper could win an Oscar.

[Sam Taggart]

Right, right.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

If it doesn't transcend in this way.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. In our world, Maria on paper should win an Oscar. And like a sex comedy about like a sex worker in Outerboro, New York, like, should not and.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Or a body horror, like, like where you see someone like, stitch their own back together.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. But enough about I'm still here.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Damn. Yeah. George, as a, you know, as a performer, I did feel. I don't know if you felt this way, but sometimes I was like, damn. Called out a bit where it's like the, like narcissism of being like, like when you're giving and when you're not, like, like to a stranger, like, being like. Well, they were like, I'll. I'll. I'll give them my. The razzle dazzle right now.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Or like, yeah, us at the Bell House.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Literally, like, I am like, you know, there's times where I'm like, I can. I am like very consciously thinking about, like, if I'm turning it on or off. And I was like, that is. I've never read it before. But I was like, well, it is.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It is interesting. Like without sounding too navel gazing, like at this stage in the media ecosystem, basically everyone is like like 1% a celebrity. Like, yeah, if. If you're online, you like, at some point will have the experience of like someone coming up to you and saying they know who you are or something. So it's like you get a very, very slight taste of what an actual famous person would feel like. And it already makes you feel insane.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And it has actually given me so much empathy for real celebrities because I'm like, yeah, I would be, like, fully in a. In an. In American Horror Story Asylum if I had to promote my Maria Callas biopic.

[Sam Taggart]

It seem kind of unlivable. Like, there's this one time. There have been multiple times, actually. Most recently, I was interviewing Sebastian Stan. Not to drop a name in New York in a coffee shop or something. And, like, people kept, like, walking by and, like, literally pointing at him like he was like a zoo animal. And it wasn't. You know, it wasn't on the level of, like, the paparazzi pursued Britney rapaciously in 2007, but it was like, okay, if I'm him, this is really distracting. I'm not even the person they're pointing at. And it's super fucking distracting. And it's like the ability to just kind of keep your focus and then, like, in other moments of your life, be like, turn on the charm and be like, hey, how are you? As not an ability that I really possess. So I wanted to kind of write my way into it.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah. It was also the. Yeah. The whole, like, wanting it to be like, being like, once I have this, I'll feel better. It's very relatable as well.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, I know. It did make me think, are they ever. I'm like, is the Meryl one. No offense.

[Sam Taggart]

Who said it? Not me.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Like, is she happy? It's like, no. I'm just sort of like, can any of them ever win? And also, what is the equivalent? Sometimes I'm like, not that I would ever want you to write the equivalent for the male acting category, but I am a little bit. Like, it would be so boring. But there's almost like a satire version of it that could be written that's just like, yeah. While the women are literally, like, undergoing ego death every day, the men are just like, right.

[Sam Taggart]

That's like, there is one actor in the book, and he literally is just kind of like, okay to it all. And so I feel like the version about best actor would be a pamphlet because also, whenever I interview an actress, I feel like. And this is just me, my own filter as a gay guy. But it is like, I feel like I go on this intense emotional journey whenever I interview an actor. They're like, yeah, I worked really hard on it. I hope people like it. It's out in a couple weeks, I think. And it's like, okay, but give Me. Give me something like, come on. And so, yeah, the version about men, I fear would be a pamphlet since.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You, you know, for your job, famously interview celebs left and right. Has anyone like, extra, extra, extra charmed you where you were like, holy shit. Like, dealing with this person in person is, like, jarring.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah. Other than Sydney Sweeney.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And you can't say Sydney Sweeney.

[Sam Taggart]

It's actually not who I was gonna say, but it's gonna be perhaps predictable all the same. Cause it's like a similar category of performer, which is. And I think I've said this before, but which is Ana de Armas, where I was just like, really?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You're a super.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, interesting. Like, you are a major, major star. I'm trying to think about more recent, though, like, this year. Funny enough, this is not someone I interviewed directly, but I was working on Actors on Actors this year, and I came away from it. I need to couch this carefully. I came away from it thinking, wow, that Ryan Reynolds is a real pro. And I was pleasantly surprised. I don't know that I was starstruck. Exactly. I think if I can't say Sydney Sweeney, my answer is Ana de Armas for who? I was like, holy shit. But in both the cases of Sweeney and De Armas, they were people I hadn't spent a ton of time thinking about, really. And it was an assignment. And so that's kind of the nice thing. It's like, if it's like someone like Nicole Kidman was that actors on Actors this year. And I was like, I predict I'm going to be completely blown away. And I was like, no surprise there.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah. That is interesting about Ryan Reynolds.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Have we said, sorry, Dan is a writer at Variety when he's not writing novels. And that is why he has interviewed a lot of celebrities and also works on Actors on Actors, which is classically the variety video feature where actors talk to other actors.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah. So some backstory. Dan is actually a stalker, so that's sort of how he knows all these celebrities.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Dan just sort of, like, seeks out celebrities extracurricularly, so he's pretty much one.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Of the weirdest guys we know.

[Sam Taggart]

Kate Winslet was so charming when I knocked on her window that night, she really. She lit up the room as I threw rocks through it. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Can I get your take on something? Because it's something I've been thinking about. I've been seeing it more and more with the Oscar season heating up. And you just did it, in fact, which is. I've noticed gay guys will refer to actresses with their last name. And it'll be, you know, the thing with Kidman, the thing with Moore, you know, And I want to sort of like theorize why that is, because I'm almost like, is it a way to make something like the Oscar race seem somehow more serious or is it a way to like, almost like adopt the attitude people would have towards professional sports where they would say like the last name of a player to make it sound more like it has more gravity.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

My guess is it's familiarity without doing first names. Like you want to be like, oh, of course. We all know who we're talking about. Like, we're super familiar.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I feel like it's that I feel like, you know how on Survivor when people say like, oh, Jeff Probst will have his favorite contestants and when they win the challenge, he'll be like, good job Smith. As opposed to like, good job John. But I also think part of it too is like, like thinking about like Maria Callis of like gay guys of a past generation would be like las. It's a little bit me being like La Kidman, La Sweeney like that. Like she needs no introduction. She is Lassey.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Totally.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Do you Stan Sydney Sweeney?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Dan Stands.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I didn't know this.

[Sam Taggart]

I feel like this was like a known element of our shared friendship is that I've interviewed her a couple times and part of why I stan her is that she is truly self aware in this way where the first time I interviewed her, I was one of two journalists interviewing her together as a team. And at the end she was like, all right guys, this has been really fun. Now remember, I'm aware of the parts that were said that are gonna be used for headlines and so try to minimize those and talk more about the work if you can. But if you can. I get it. And I was just like, holy shit. I think of myself as very in on the game and I feel like I just got gamed in this way, in this way that I really admire and thought was so smart. And I've interviewed her again and it was a really great experience. I also think she's. I think she's a great actress.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

No, I Stan, I Stan quite hard, actually.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I agree.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

So that's good to know.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Wait, let's do our first segment because I want to get into the topic.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Oh yeah, I agree.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Okay, go ahead.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Oh, okay, Dan. Our first segment is called Straight Shooters. And in this segment we're going to ask you a series of rapid fire questions to gauge your familiarity with and Complicity in straight culture. It's basically this thing or this other thing. And the only rule is you can't ask a single follow up question or we'll scream, scream, scream. George, do you want to kick us off?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yes. Turning a look at Cannes or reading a book by Dan?

[Sam Taggart]

Reading a book by Dan.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Losing your religion or cooing like a pigeon.

[Sam Taggart]

Cooing like a pigeon.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Miramax or Mucinex?

[Sam Taggart]

Mucinex.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Lock and load or frog and toad?

[Sam Taggart]

Frog and toad.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The French new wave or Judi Dench should have been in conclave.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

The French new wave Getting mixed signals or eating six Pringles?

[Sam Taggart]

Getting mixed signals.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Amy Adams, Jamie Dornan. Mamie Gummer or fame is a prison.

[Sam Taggart]

Mamie Gummer.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Really good work. Okay. Blerg, Irma gerd or awkward?

[Sam Taggart]

Blerg.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Not believing that was.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

We actually kind of brought it. That one.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

That was kind of crazy.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I tried to make mine all quasi Oscars themed.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

No, that was smart.

[Sam Taggart]

That did come across beautifully.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I'm so glad it is iconic that you chose Mamie Gummer over both Amy Adams and, you know, sort of by extension, Lady Gaga, who of course said fame is a prison. I would say, obviously you knew exactly what was going on.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

There was no hesitation. It's clear that you're familiar with the game.

[Sam Taggart]

I am.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I'm almost like, is choosing Mamie Gummer. So pick me. It's like so unexpected that it's almost a slap in the face. Sam, what do you think?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I think, you know, there was something about that whole performance where I was really like. Like, he's stepping up to the plate. Like there was something so like, like.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

He'S being very Adria Benedict in this moment.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yes. It was very like, you think I'm like gonna play this game? Like I'm. I've been. Been. I know this game better than you know this game. Like, enough. Enough games. So that felt like it was almost like when an understudy has to go out and then like does way better than the star.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Totally, totally. Okay, so what do we think?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Like, I'm gonna go 922 dubs.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

22. Yes.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Thanks, guys.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Pretty big. Pretty big. One of the best scores we've had in a while.

[Sam Taggart]

That's wonderful. Wow.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Okay, so I, I. Without further ado, I do want to get into the topic because I'm actually very excited to talk about this one. And so Dan, please tell us what your straight topic is and maybe a little bit about what's straight about it.

[Sam Taggart]

Absolutely. So my topic Is Pink not the color, but the recording artist. This came to mind because I was recently listening to the Moulin Rouge soundtrack. Just refreshing my memory, of course. And I was thinking about Lady Marmalade. Yeah, exactly.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Oh, yeah. Lady Marmalade.

[Sam Taggart]

And how on it, the entire song is structured as a build toward. Wait till you see what Christina does in the final act. It's basically Black Swan. It's like everything is in anticipation of this massive final act. And indeed, she sings completely incoherently and amazingly, and she doesn't even know where she is as she's singing. In the process of getting there, there are a few others. And Pink is the one out of the entire song where it's like, okay, the assignment is sing a sexy song about the Moulin Rouge. I got it. And I was thinking about how everything in her career feels just like, okay, if this is what you people want, I'll do it. There's, like, never been a wink to her. No, there's never been a wink to Pink. There's never been irreverent feeling or a feeling of kind of testing things out, which is especially pronounced given that her whole deal for the past, like, 20 years has been like, I'm the pop star who's an acrobat. And that should be circus. It should be Cirque du Soleil. It should be kind of sexy and intriguing, but also funny and absurd, literally flipping things on its head. And yet the feeling I get when I see one of those videos of her doing, like, the zip line across the stadium is just like, okay, what I'm gonna do is the following tricks. It feels like if you were taking a trapeze course and the instructor. It's like when Carrie takes a trapeze course in Sex and City, and the instructor's just like, all right, you do need these harnesses to be safe. And it's like, there's never any kind of. She's like, the anti Gaga in this way where, like, totally. She's never had a super high high. Cause she's never really had a super low low. It's just kind of always like, I have a playbook, and I'm executing it, and it's like. But I want to see blood and guts, and I want to see you fall off the trapeze one time. What would happen?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Right. Where's the vulnerability?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Where's the vulnerability? She does.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Sam, what is your. What are your. I have. I'm. I have so much to say. What are your associations with Pink?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Well, the biggest one is that My mom is Pink's biggest fan.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Exactly.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

My mom is, like, so addicted to Pink in a way that is, like, where I actually feel almost that I have to tread lightly so as not to hurt her feelings.

[Sam Taggart]

Is she listening?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I don't know. She usually. She doesn't listen. Maybe this one stop listening, but. But this one, she might listen. So I honestly want to say, mom, I think you might have to stop listening if you're listening right now, because this conversation is. We have to be honest, and we can't be honest if we're worried about your feelings about Pink. And I respect how much you love Pink, but I have to be honest with my podcast right now. Okay, George, tell us your thoughts.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Okay, so my grand theory of Pink is that there's pre Ellen Pink and post Ellen Pink. So I think that Pink in early in her career, I'm not. I don't know if I would go so far as say, there was that vulnerability that you're looking for, Dan. But she was certainly. There was an authenticity. Like, I think first she was. Was, like, truly trying to do hip hop in this, like, crazy way that whatever you think about it in retrospect, was authentic to her. You could tell it came from a love of hip hop. And she was trying something, whether she was succeeding or not. Like, it was truly. She was trying to be, like, a white hip hop artist. Then she went into this kind of like, almost like rock and roll direction, and she, like, sang Trouble, stripped down with a guitar at the Grammys or like the AMAs or the VMAs or something. She was sort of like, like, sexy and provocative and she would, like, wear a bra. And she was sort of, like, uncategorizable because she wasn't Britney. But she also wasn't, you know, indie, obviously. Then, of course, you got the stupid girls era where she's, like, out being outspoken about how, like, women are stupid now.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Well, she was the anti. She was the anti Britney.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

She was literally the anti Britney, Brittany. Which was. This is just a parenthesis, like, especially sort of, like, damning, considering Pink was literally, like, in a duet with Christina Aguilera, who's also Britney. Like it. The idea that Pink is less or more stupid than Britney is very sort of missing the point. Anyway. The point is, I would say she had less of a cohesive style, but she was throwing spaghetti at the wall in this way where you were like, maybe something will come out of this. And sure enough, many big hits did, like, get the Party Started. And I think Mizandas is an incredible record.

[Sam Taggart]

A body of work.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

A body of work.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Okay, so then Post Ellen is when she becomes fully like target brand.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It becomes clown. Target Clown.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Clown. But also inspiration porn.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

It's.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Well, it's like, well yeah, this one goes out to all the misfits, but you're performing at a sorority party. Like, it's like, yes, you're. You're performing in front of all kind of like middle class moms and you're saying, raise your glass to all the misfits. And they're all like, woo.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that's the song where she tries to. It's like she tried to start a little monster style thing by referring to her fans as the dirty little freaks. Which has never really sat right with me because A, it's just not very appealing. Like it's like it needed one more pass from the gay guy in the room that's not there. And B, it's like your fans are just not dirty little freaks. They are, are like candle buyers.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yes, they're it, it is. They're exact. That's exactly what they are. They are candle buyers at Bath and Body Work. It's not, it's not Yankee Candle, but it's Bath and Body Works.

[Sam Taggart]

I wanted to say Magnolia, but it's pre Magnolia. So it's like it's Bath and Body Works. Yes.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

But that song in particular is so funny. Like when I hear that song I'm sort of like, I'm glad you've been on this insane journey because when you remove it from the context of the midwestern moms, I'm like, it's like one of the funniest pieces of music we have.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It is incredible. I mean the fact that the guts it takes to literally release a song where it's na na na na na na na, like it's literally sampling a back, what's it called, like schoolyard song, teasing song taunt.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It's also four songs in one. Sorry. Keep going.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah. Last thing I will say is something that we have to mention is that the Post Ellen bet on Bath and Body Works paid off hugely.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Because something some people that are like in our circles don't know is that Pink is like, I think has the second most like best selling world tour after Taylor Swift or something. She like, her sales are insane and she's insanely popular internationally because there's an ESL Eurovision vibe to all her music. So it's actually very relatable if you live in like Estonia.

[Sam Taggart]

She kind of reminds me, now that you mention it and this does undercut my argument, but I'm confident in the argument regardless. She kind of reminds me of like Cascada, like, aesthetically and a little bit in the music as well. But yeah, no, to your point. Prizing apart elements of your argument in the pre period when she was more messy and dare we say it, more gay. Just in the sense that she was just trying things spontaneously. Don't you wish, Like, a song like Stupid Girls should be either intentionally funny in that it's skewering people accurately or unintentionally funny because it's such an insane concept and it's kind of neither. It's like, I'm not gonna bring this back to my book and the concept of women picking on each other, but it is like, okay. If nothing else, this should just be such a wild overstep. And it came out and I feel like people were just like, okay, that's Pink heard from. Anyway, what else is going on with.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The insane video where she's like, directly making fun of like, Paris Hilton and whatever, and. And then. And the lyrics are so basic. What app. What happened to the dream of a girl president? She's dancing in the video next to 50 Cent. That is her take.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. I do feel like I. If she ever apologized for it, I'm sure she probably did. But I also feel like everyone has just forgotten that in part because, like, she's so self help now that it's like, like, oh, Pink would never do something like that. She basically is Brene Brown. Like, she basically just is such a kind of quasi inspirational figure.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, agreed.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And I actually think what you're talking about in terms of, like, her not being able to commit to either, you know, full camp or full, let's say, cringe or whatever, like Stupid Girls is right in the middle of that. I actually think that could also be applied to, like, her fashion choices, her hair. Like, everything is in this weird, dare I say, uncanny valley. Like, it's. It's like between good and bad.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You're kind of. There's something about her that is kind of similar to this, where I'm like, she doesn't exist in a place. Like, I feel like a lot of pop stars, you can be like, oh, they're like, that's New York, Lower east side. Like, that they're going for like, like Los Angeles. They're going for Houston. Like, there's like a. There's something where it's like, it does exist in a space and. And it's just like you're translating where you're from to a larger audience. And Pink, it's like, what is your. Like, it's half like, I'm redneck, half I'm hip hop, half I'm target. And it's like, I. It's so confusing.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I think that connect that relates to the Eurovision thing. There is something that is like. It's almost like someone who grew up in a small European country consuming American pop culture and then tried to emulate.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And she always. It always goes through that Pink filter of, like, a sort of light lack of taste and just kind of blending it all together where, like, basically, since the Ellen alliance, she's been the same way. I think, like, the degree of the idea of eras, as it were, can be, like, very overstated. But she's been the exact same for, like, 15 years. And. And the music sounds the same, the aesthetic presentation is the same, the act is the same and people love it. But you're a little bit like, okay, I want dynamism. Because, you know, you are missing out on the chance to do something really transcendent, but you're also missing out on the chance to like. Pink will never have an art pop. Pink will never have a bionic, because she will never release music that's not like, completely the same.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, yeah. She. Everything is like, a bit crowd tested. Like, it's like she's trying to succeed. And I even feel like stupid girls, I think that is her, like, artistic view is to be like, what is popular. Like, in 2004, it was like, hating Paris Hilton and thinking like, girls were dumb. And so it was like, I will do so right.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Girls are dumb. It wasn't like. It wasn't like she was bravely speaking up. Like, the mainstream view was American society is going to because of Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Literally.

[Sam Taggart]

Right. And so if she released that song now.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah. Kind of wild.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And even not, like, the inspiration stuff, it's like, well, Trump is president and like, all I can do is be like, and Ellen is the biggest person on earth. I will be inspiring like that.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

A great example, I think, of the Pink ethos is a few years ago she had an album called Beautiful Trauma, which I think is the perfect title for a Pink album, because it's like, it's a few years after, like, Trauma became a buzzword. Yes. It's no longer fresh, but to the candle buyers and to the people in small European countries, it is the first time they've heard of it.

[Sam Taggart]

Right.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It's sort of like, okay for Everyone who hasn't heard about Trauma yet, this is an album called Beautiful Trauma.

[Sam Taggart]

You know when her songs, though, really do hit? Like, when I hear them and I'm like, damn, Trauma really can be beautiful.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

It's Pink came back into my line of sight. I always knew who she was because she's often the last song at a soul cycle class. And it's like, I don't have any associations with this other than I know who's singing it. Cause I recognize her voice. This song has never been a part of my life. It's beloved by candle buyers the world over who've packed stadiums. But to me, I'm hearing it for the first time. The lyrics kind of mean everything and nothing. And I am soaring on that bike. I am about to fly out of the room.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You know, Dan, it's funny that you say that, because my mom is a fitness instructor character.

[Sam Taggart]

Wait, really?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

So that's.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Oh, this is the missing link. Of course. She loves Pink.

[Sam Taggart]

So she loves spin or what?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

She does spin. She owns, like, a boutique fitness place in Michigan. And so it's like, small classes.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I visited it. It's honestly great. It really made me want to, like, take her classes. And I'm kind of sad that I didn't have time.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And I would have loved if she played Beautiful Trauma from start to finish.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You know, she. Pink is a staple of the Spin room playlist, I bet. And so, yeah, they.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

It.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It. It's. That's. That is the link. That is a big link. And that's also. There is a fitness. It's a Midwestern fitness link. Because there's also, like. It's impressive physically, the acrobatics. It's not like, this looks cool. It's like, her age. She can do this. Like, that's inspiring.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. No. And it's not. It's by its very nature. It's not like, you know, I. Lady Gaga, for instance, dances her house off in the Abracadabra video. But it's like, cut together between shots. It's like, no, you're in the stadium and you are watching that woman fly over your head for two hours. And she can do it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And what she does is impressive.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It is impressive, of course.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And I've always sort of. Okay, so. Because I actually was a Pink fan as a child, I, like, didn't realize that it was uncool until much later in the game. There was a family trip where the two CDs that I had were the Eminem show and Mizandazdud.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I love the way you pronounce that.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I was literally going back and forth between the two of them. And, like, when you're. When you're like, okay, when you're a kid and you sort of are, like, discovering, like, Sundance movies and, like, discovering you hear Family Portrait by Pink, and you're like, this is deep in our family portrait. We look pretty happy. We look pretty normal.

[Sam Taggart]

Let's go back to that Aging Todd Solon's like, hello.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Literally. It's literally, yes. That is wiener dog. So there is a part of me that is almost upset, almost similar to how I feel about Gwen Stefani, because Gwen Stefani also very much has a pre Ellen and post Ellen phase. Obviously, her pre Ellen phase is much more iconic. And I'm not comparing them, but there is a nostalgia where I'm like, damn, if one other thing had gone differently, what if one of Pink's crazy early experiments had gained traction and then she did a concept album?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I think that could have been really interesting. I feel like we've reached the portion of the roast, and as much as this is a roast where we're like, but seriously, Pink, you're a legend.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You are absolutely right. No, I know, because I started feeling bad because I was like, even the circus stuff, I'm like, she actually does tear it. Like, when you watch that initial performance of Glitter in the Air where she first does the circus thing, it is impressive.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, and that was crazy. My recollection is that was at the Grammys, and it was kind of like, oh, Pink's at the Grammys. Random. And that was when she kind of uncorked it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

And it was, like, legitimately impressive. And then she kind of just kept doing it.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, it's a lot. Can I. Another. A funny thing that my mom did once that I have to say. And, mom, I hope you have stopped listening, but I think I was home, like, for the pandemic, and we were, like, listening to music, and like, she was like, so what do gay guys think about Pink? And I was like, that is such an iconic question. And it actually was, like, kind of sad where I had to be like, like, you know, honestly, like, they don't quite stand. And it's like, you know, and I tried to, like, really soften it and be like, you know, some really like her. Like, of course.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Do you think the candle buying gays do.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I do think there's a sort of Midwestern, like, gay homeowner.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Right. I want to know what the percentage. Because I actually do think lesbian. Sorry. To speak about lesbians again. I don't want to get in trouble trouble on Instagram, but I do think lesbians love Pink. Like, I do think there's a. There's a kind of lesbian couple, you know, two dogs, pit bull mixes maybe. And they are living in. In like, not Indianapolis. What's the one? Bloomington. And they are going to the Pink show.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah. I think there's a direct correlation, regardless of gender, of whether if you own a home, you're like 90% more likely to enjoy the music of Pink.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's true.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

They go hand in hand because you're.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Like, I own a home. And that me an outcast. That's sort of the thought process that goes. And then you're like, raise your glass if you are wrong in all the right ways.

[Sam Taggart]

I feel like it's just like, you're settled. It's like I don't have time to focus on what Lady Gaga and Katy Torre and Chapel Roan are doing. Like, let me just listen to a 3 1/2 minute pop song where right at the bridge she stops and randomly talks for 15 seconds. Yes, exactly. The one thing that I think is proof that gay guys have never seen it for her is I feel we would see posts that refer to her by her given name. Like, it would be like Alicia Moore. Alicia just does it again in the same way. It's like, oh, Stephanie, you shouldn't have. Like, it's just, she says she told us who she was Pink, and we believed her because it was just like, okay, whatever. Like, if you say it, I'm good with it. Like, there's never been a kind of wondering of who she is behind the mystique.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's so true. And especially because when you think about it, the name Pink with an exclamation point is actually so art pop on paper to name yourself. P Exclamation point NK is. Is so like swine. Like, that's literally that.

[Sam Taggart]

I feel like it's kind of like a pop star from a movie too. It's like, I feel like it's very like if the Wachowskis made like a movie about the future, the pop star would be named p exclamation point nk.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yes. No, 100%. It sort of sounds like a cryptocurrency.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Do you guys think, well, first of all, she needs her own coin. We need Pink Co. Now, if you don't think she.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I'm not even looking this up.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

She has one and I'm investing. I'm putting everything in A pink coin?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Are you kidding me? It could be. It would be the most stable coin to invest in. She's the most successful artist.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I have a question. Do you think it's like mentally healthier to. For your fan base to be not gay guys?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Like, yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. Unambiguously.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It's like the best fan base is like fish.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But having gay guys as your fans does give you more like cultural cred in the long run. But at what cost?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I think the best fan bases to have are a, like, stable homeowning adults and failing that, like young children. Because there's a lot of growth potential and they imprint on you.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's true.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Like my four year old now stands Chapel, which, like, I kind of wish she had a CD wallet that just had like pink in it because I think like, having an Sorry, George, like, uncool moment is like very powerful and important in life.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I agree.

[Sam Taggart]

But she's just like, play hot to go. And I'm like, okay, so like chapa will get 30 years of your money. Like.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

So that is interesting. Having a four year old do what? Does she respond differently to other pop stars? Like, is there anyone? She's like, yuck, I hate this.

[Sam Taggart]

Let me think.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

What happens when you put on Charli xcx.

[Sam Taggart]

We have put on Charlie and she doesn't like it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Not for four year olds.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. She more goes by song. She doesn't necessarily understand the concept that recording artists can record multiple songs. And so she just kind of likes certain Chapel songs. And she recently told us that the song what was I made for Makes me feel sad inside.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Which I think is very understandable. But other than that, it's just kind of like Chapel Roar. She's a big roarhead, really. She responds to Katy. She does not respond to Gaga, incidentally.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

That's scary.

[Sam Taggart]

Which I guess is. You have a Katie vibe. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I mean, hot to Go, actually. Similar to Raise your Glass. Literally. I mean, it's like appropriating a cheerleader chant in the same way that razor glass is appropriating like a school year. So it is childlike in this way. I would say it's slightly higher quality than razor glass, but it does have that childlike element, as does roar.

[Sam Taggart]

I think about this with all these songs. Do you know how at the end of Visit from the Goon Squad, have you guys read that? You were too busy reading the Talent by Dan Dedarian?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I'm trying to think if I have finished A Visit from the Goons.

[Sam Taggart]

S. I'll spoil it. It's like in the future, and it's like a recording artist is trying to break out. And the way you break out is like toddlers, like, if they like you, they press a button. And that's how they determine if recording artists become famous in the future. I'm like, oh, yeah, we're basically there, like, totally. And I think Pink would pass that test with flying colors.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Absolutely.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah. Damn. The part in the Pink song when she's like, why so serious? Is so funny. She's like the joker.

[Sam Taggart]

I literally. I love that. And I love. There's that song about self image that goes pretty, pretty please. And each verse she sings, why do I do that? And then in the final verse, she stops the song, the beat drops out. She goes, why do I do that? And it's like when she stops the song, which she does on multiple songs and talks to herself and psychs herself up, it is kind of despite myself. I'm like, okay, that's kind of fab.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, totally. Because guess. Guess what? At the end of the day, I'm being so pro Pink. I'm sorry. At the end of the day, she actually does have beautiful trauma. Like, she isn't.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You know, she doesn't literally. What is her trauma?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

She, like, grew up in, like, a difficult family situation. And you should listen to Family Portrait.

[Sam Taggart]

Hear us down and take videos.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You need to watch the video for Family Portrait and then get back to me. Because she has been through so much.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I think she quite understood.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Well and deeply she's understood, But I think previously she. She wasn't. And maybe that is. I mean, that is the pre Ellen, Post Ellen thing. It's like, post Ellen, she is understood. My only point is, it's like, that's what makes it almost, like, funnier in a way that she actually did have the beautiful drama that could have caused her to become a Gaga. I mean, I guess Gaga didn't have beautiful trauma because she went to nyu, but, like.

[Sam Taggart]

But that Facebook group about how she would never be famous.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's right. It's just ironic that, like, Gaga went to NYU and makes art pop. Pink, you know, has beautiful trauma and makes Raise your glass.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I think Pink's trauma to me is like, her son, like, motocrossed too much like her is there's. She's so bmx. I see Pink and I see her.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The father of her children is a professional.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Oh, that's why I see that. That makes sense. Got it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And he's really. I. I don't know what he looks like now, but I remember when they got together, I thought he was so cute. In like a sort of Blink 182 wake again. I think it's also like for some people my exact age, maybe it was like the first time they even. Because music was like Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys. It was the first time anyone even had something approaching the aesthetics of alt that you would see on like mainstream mtv, you know what I mean? It was like an Avril Lavigne type thing.

[Sam Taggart]

It's funny because if she were like five years later, she would have been in a class of, I don't even know, the All American Rejects in Jimmy Eats World or Eat World or whatever where it's like, okay, these are also alt adjacent or even 182 being big. And because she just came up with Britney, it was like, I am the anti Britney.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's the thing.

[Sam Taggart]

There were other items on the menu like five years later. And not that she would have been like them, but it would have been like, okay, it's a more diverse soundscape. It's like she just had to be like, fuck Britney. Because that was the only other other option. Right?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

She was the self styled punk one in the pop world rather than the pop one in the punk. She wasn't paramore. Like she didn't do like pop punk. That was like in the realm of simple plan or something like that. She very much was firmly a pop star that was like a woman with backup dancers. But she was like, I'm not like those other girls.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, I had short hair.

[Sam Taggart]

Had she been even like a few more years later, she could have been so Katy Perry performing at the Warp Tour, which is how Katie got her start. And it's like, yeah, I'm like a pop star, but I don't even need to define myself against Britney. I'm defining myself because I'm a conventional pop star. And isn't it so random that I'm here at the Warp Tour?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah. Damn. So Dan, is your sequel going to be about pop girls instead of actresses?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it's actually going to be. It's going to be set at the Grammys. Yeah, No, I think I've written enough about celebrities for one lifetime.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Well, I think maybe you'll revisit it in 20 years and it'll be like a big sort of return. Return to form to the big. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, the problem is I felt like I was really good at making up fake. You can be the judge. But I felt like I could make up fake movies. I feel like whenever I read a book with a fake pop star in it, the songs feel really fake. So I need to, like, that's true. It's hard get better at writing pop culture.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The world is. I think the tropes are. Maybe I'm just more of a film person than a music person, but the tropes are much more relatable to me in the movie world.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Well, I think there's something like, I.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Could never have predicted that an Olivia Rodrigo would become a big thing, that, like, pop punk would suddenly be big in 2021.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, that was surprising, and I loved it, but it was surprising.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Dan, any final thoughts on Pink?

[Sam Taggart]

I feel like through this conversation, I'm like, a Pink fan. I actually, as soon as we close out of this zoom, I'm going to put on Spotify. And I'm like, not kidding. I feel like everything we've said. I do maintain she's the straightest pop star alive, 100%. But I'm like, oh, my God.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

But that has a valuable role to play in our ecosystem now.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like she's almost in the same class as Meghan Trainor, but she's like, in that binary. She's the cool one. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

And show me Meghan Trainor flying through the air like.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Like, literally.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

She's also, like, she is so pink has always been such an ally to the LGBTQ plus, but it's also like, she's performing like, she's an ally and she's performing to all allies. And all of them are, like, waving rainbow flags. Are so excited. But they have never met a real gay person. But in theory, they have, like, a gay nephew. Yes, in theory, they're super supportive. They have a gay nephew, but they're also. Sorry, like, maybe anti Vax. Well, like that.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Well, because of the health fitness connection. Right.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Like, it's like anti Vaxx, but has a gay nephew. And loves candles.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And loves candles. Well, we all love candles. Wasn't that delicious? So good.

[Sam Taggart]

Your bill, ladies.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I got it. No, I got it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Seriously, I. I insist.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I insisted first.

[Sam Taggart]

Don't be silly.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You don't be silly.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it.

[Sam Taggart]

Rock, paper, scissors.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Shoot. No.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

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[Unknown Speaker 4]

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[Unknown Speaker 2]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

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[Unknown Speaker 4]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

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[Unknown Speaker 4]

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[Sam Taggart]

Honestly, Honestly.

[Dan Daddario]

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[George Severis]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

Okay, I think we should do. First of all, I agree. I'm. I'm gonna go ahead and put on Pink. At the moment I can. And I actually think, Adam, for when you end this episode, please do raise your glass. Instead of our normal song, do as.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Much as we can get away with without, you know, having to pay Sony.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Actually do enough that we get sued so that we can be in conversation with Pink. Okay, so I think we should do our final segment, Dan, which is, of course, shout outs, where we pay homage to the grand Strait tradition of the radio shout out, where we shout out anything that we enjoy. And George, I actually do have one.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I do, too, but you can go first.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Okay. What's up, freaks, losers? And not to mention the perverts. I want to give a huge shout out to Siggy's yogurt. If you know me, you know I've been a choker Bonnie diva since day one. I, you know, I say Cho me the Bonnie. But now I have had some siggies, and when I had it in the past, I was like, this is dry. It's powdery almost, and I can't handle it. Now I think I have a more mature palate. And I'm saying, finally, a yogurt that's dry. I love that. It's like, it's more goo than a chobani. Chobani feels like a yogurt for a child. And now I am. I'm on my way to being a pink loving homeowner, and I need to have my dry, dry yogurt. So shout out to siggies. You're dry enough that it makes me feel like it's better for me. And I love you. Xoxo, Sam.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Wait, Sam, have you tried the fruity ones?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

No.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You gotta do blueberry and you gotta do acai and berries.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Acai and berries.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

They're really good. And also, I'm about to blow your mind. I've done siggies as a shout out before.

[Sam Taggart]

Whoa.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Okay. You know, I'm going to keep with the theme of music and. And music videos and. And misunderst misunderstood women in music. What's up, music lovers out there? I want to give a shout out to the music video for the Tori Amos song, A Sort of fairy tale. This video stars Tori Amos and Adrien Brody. Oscar nominee and past winner Adrien Brody. Tori Amos plays a leg and Adrien Brody plays a arm. You're thinking, what are you talking about? Imagine a leg with a head on it and an arm with a head on it.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I'm seeing it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Okay, now that you have that image in your head, imagine them falling in love and that. And imagine me absolutely bawling my eyes out because it is the most beautiful love story between a leg and an arm I've ever seen. Shout out to Adrien Brody for randomly doing that video after winning an Oscar for the Pianist. Or maybe before. I'm not going to fact check it. And shout out to Tori Amos, who has zero Grammys, whereas Taylor Swift has 15. Thank you.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And you know, the Grammys are a damn sham. It's not real.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It's not real. Dan, whenever you're ready.

[Sam Taggart]

All right, I'm gonna give a shout out to oyster crackers. Yesterday I had a bit of an upset tummy and I went ransacking my closet looking for something that could soothe me. And oyster crackers, it was. They are great. Crumbled up into soup or chowder if you have. If you are in some sort of lobster shack on the shore. But if you are just in a Brooklyn apartment, far from water and you just want something that is tasteless but in the best possible way. They are crunchy. They're weirdly a little thick. They are sold at Trader Joe's, which is what mine were, but other establishments as well. Oyster crackers. I don't know why they're called that. They would be really bad on an oyster, but they're great just from the palm of your hand. Thank you. Oyster crackers. I love you.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Wow. Delightful.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I thought about this in a while.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Don't write in. But also, why are they called that? Yeah, don't write in. I love the idea that you were looking in your closet for oyster crackers because it's like how we find out that you keep oyster crackers in your clothing closet.

[Sam Taggart]

I meant pantry, but no, no. My pantry is so weirdly shaped. Yeah, no, I brought them out of the closet.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Well, Dan, thanks so much for doing the pod. I loved the book. I think everyone should do it. And I want to apologize to all former authors for not having finished the book before you came.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I want to say that for multiple of the former authors, I then did end up finishing the book.

[Sam Taggart]

But you had such informed questions today because you read mine. So maybe you're turning over a new leaf.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I think we're turning over a new leaf. I actually am kind of turning over a new leaf where it's like, enough being a child.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, no, we're in our post Ellen era for sure.

[Sam Taggart]

Siggy's yogurt, reading books. It's all happening. Homeownership next.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, homeownership.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Let's go, Dan, one more time. What is your novel, your debut novel called In Working People? I mean. Yeah. Where can people find it?

[Sam Taggart]

It is called the Talent. My name is Daniel Daddario. It is available anywhere you buy books. Your local independent bookstore, the library, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, anywhere like that.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Well, run, don't walk.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Run, don't walk.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Okay, bye.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Bye.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Podcast ends now.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month. Discord Access and more by heading to patreon.com Stradiolab and for all our visual learners.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Free full length video episodes are available on our YouTube.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Now get back to work.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Stradiolab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money players network and iHeart podcasts.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Created and hosted by George Severis and.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Sam Taggart, executive produced by Will Ferrell Hansani and Olivia Aguilar, co produced by BAE Wang, edited and engineered by Adam.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Avalos, artwork by Michael Fales and Matt Grubb.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Theme music by Ben Kling.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Your glass.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Just come on, come on and raise.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Your.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

The Unshakables podcast is kicking off.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Season two with an episode you won't want to miss.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

For Business, as he welcomes a very special guest, chairman and CEO CEO of JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon. Hear about the challenges facing small businesses and some of the oh moments Jamie has overcome.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Message and data rates may apply.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

J.P. morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 J.P. morgan Chase & Co.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

The Philadelphia Eagles are Super Bowl Champions.

[Sam Taggart]

It's over.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Fly Eagles, Fly Live.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

Celebrate the big win with the official licensed Super Bowl Champions gear, available [e-mail].

[Unknown Speaker 1]

The Eagles win at Super Bowl 59.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

From jerseys to hats to must have collectibles, we've got everything you need to rep your team with pride. Don't wait. These styles won't last. Shop [e-mail] and gear up like a champion.

[Sam Taggart]

Honestly, Honestly, Honestly, no one wants to.

[Dan Daddario]

Think about hiv, but there are things that everyone can do to help prevent it. Things like prep. Prep stands for Pre Exposure Prophylaxis and it means routinely taking prescription medicine before you're exposed to HIV to help reduce your chances of getting it. Prep can be about 99% effective when taken as prescribed. It doesn't protect against other STIs, though, so be sure to use condoms and other healthy sex practices. Ask a healthcare provider about all your prevention Options and visit findoutaboutprep.com to learn more.

[George Severis]

Sponsored by Gilead Creativity doesn't wait. It moves, shifts, evolves, evolves just like you. And with the Yoga PC from Lenovo, your tools finally, keep up. Stunning, smart and sustainably sourced yoga PCs from Lenovo are designed to amplify your creativity with AI powered performance. Whether you're sketching, editing, animating or composing, yoga moves with you adapting to your creativity, to your rhythm. With beautiful displays and the flexibility to shift from laptop to tablet, yoga unlocks new ways to inspire and create. Because at Lenovo, we believe your tools should fuel your flow, not hold you back. Yoga PCs from Lenovo support you at every step of your creative journey. So check out lenovo.com yoga and supercharge your creativity with yoga, empowering creators everywhere.