"Southwest Airlines, Barn Coats, Cycling" w/ Sam & George

Summary

StraightioLab Podcast Summary

Episode Title: "Southwest Airlines, Barn Coats, Cycling"
Hosts: George Civeris & Sam Taggart
Date: July 21, 2026
Network: Big Money Players Network & iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this vibrant, discursive episode of StraightioLab, comedians George Civeris and Sam Taggart execute a rigorous but hilariously meandering exploration of five oddly interconnected yet distinct elements of "straight culture"—YouTube history tutorials, corduroy trousers, barn coats, cycling, and Southwest Airlines. The list comes from a top-tier Patreon supporter, which sparks the hosts to unfold each topic with personal anecdotes, philosophical asides, and characteristically incisive banter.

Along the way, the duo welcome a variety of hotline questions from listeners, resulting in surprising digressions about feelings, self-care, Survivor strategy, and the evolution of the "soft boy." The conversation flows from the aesthetics of lunch automation to deep dives into dad-coded hobbies, closeted desires, and the semiotics of airline branding.

The tone is playful, hyper-self-aware, and self-deprecating, oscillating between irony and genuine inquiry into how straightness operates as a cultural code.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Lunch Conundrum & Automation (03:18–12:31)

• Lunch as Burden vs. Dinner as Joy:
  The hosts joke about wishing lunch could be automated, with George declaring, "Automate lunch, make dinner even more human. Let’s mix it up even more." (06:37)
• Convenience Over Experience:
  Sam admits that in LA, convenience always trumps culinary delight—“I want what is walkable, what is on the way home. I want what is convenient.” (06:01)
• Chipotle Standom:
  Sam’s continued loyalty to Chipotle despite myriad better options is framed as both comforting and damning, with George suggesting, “Your Chipotle loyalty is so strong that you move to LA...but because it’s so grandfathered in, that’s where you go for burritos.” (05:35)

2. Joie de Vivre Points & The Value of Fun (10:51–15:34)

• Quantifying Fun:
  George proposes a system that quantifies “joie de vivre” for societal rewards:

  “I’ve long thought that joie de vivre should be quantified and involved in a tax-based...tax credit system...The more joie de vivre you have, you are adding to society..." (10:57)

• Artist Grants as Joie de Vivre:
  They equate artist grants with societal support for “joie de vivre,” but lament that, in reality, grants reward those good at paperwork, not those with true artistic spirit. (14:13)

3. Patreon Lore: Cliff Girls & Topic Selection (15:07–18:34)

• What Is a Cliff Girl?
  A top-tier Patreon supporter (“Cliff Girl”) can suggest episode topics. The duo riff on the perils and symbolism of “cliff girls”:

  “To Madonna, feel so free to me, a cliff girl is like being on the cliff and taking a photo. You are sacrificing safety for maximum view behind you.” (15:51)

4. Topic #1: YouTube History Tutorials (18:34–26:43)

• Straightness & YouTube’s Aesthetics:
  George questions the medium’s legitimacy, asking, “What genre is this?...Am I meant to interpret this through the lens of watching a film, experiencing an audiobook?” (23:09)
• Algorithm & Radicalization:
  Sam points out that YouTube’s algorithm easily steers viewers from innocuous history to radical content:

  “You start out...curious about history, and then it’s like history to white nationalism is such an easy little path now.” (21:03)

• Low Production Value as Straight:
  George identifies not caring about aesthetic categories or production value as profoundly straight:

  “What’s straight about it is not caring about aesthetic categories...not placing that within an existing history of a form.” (24:25)

5. Topic #2: Corduroy Trousers & Barn Coats (30:41–41:34)

• Barn Coats as Class & Style Signal:
  Both hosts see the Barbour-style barn coat as a loaded signifier—preppy, upper-crust, “rich Euro kid.” George notes, “In Greece...Barbour barn coats are huge...all the rich kids have Barbour coats.” (31:47)
• Performative Wear & Aging:
  They joke about purposeful distressing as performative straightness—“The strife of the jacket is not real.” (34:24)
• Men’s Obsession with Durable Fashion:
  Break-in processes (loafers, denim) are likened to rituals of straight performance.

6. Topic #3: Cycling (41:47–48:45)

• Gay/Ambiguous Overtones:
  The hosts delight in the contradictorily gay-coded / straight-practiced ritual of cycling:

  “Cycling is interesting because obviously you would think, period, period, you would think it’s gay—Why? Tights. But butt balls!” (41:57)

• Dad Hobbies as Escapism:
  Cycling and gear acquisition are recast as “microdosing leaving your family” and as a rare moment men can express physicality and autonomy. (46:39)
• Gendered Gear:
  “A hobby with a bunch of gear is like heaven...Let’s add up all your gear!” Sam exclaims, poking at masculine forms of consumption disguised as pragmatism. (47:13)

7. Topic #4: Southwest Airlines (51:53–63:20)

• From Quirky to Cruel:
  Southwest is seen as a “false promise”—its original egalitarianism “Lord of the Flies-style” seat selection is branded as libertarian chaos:

  “It helps no one...It just immediately makes everyone fucking crazy. It just becomes this show of strength. And whoever can be the most evil...” (57:16)

• Corporate Quirk & Sellout Logic:
  Sam and George draw sharp contrasts between benevolent corporate quirk (Ben & Jerry’s) and fake, “straight” indie branding that betrays its base (Urban Outfitters). (56:00)
• Geographic Branding:
  The specificity of “Southwest” or “Alaskan” Airlines becomes a point of reflection on authenticity and context.

8. Listeners’ Calls: Survivor Weaknesses, Gay Self-Care, Soft Boys (66:26–94:03)

• What Would Cost You Survivor? (66:26–70:11)
  • George would be too trusting and flatters easily:

    “Despite my cynical exterior, I actually do kind of have an open mind when it comes to people. You’re trusting, I’m trusting.” (67:58)

  • Sam would get sidelined by others’ chaos or caught shit-talking:

    “If you miss your initial opportunity to become a leader, then...it’s hard to then ascend to the front seat.” (69:11)

• How to Feel More Gay Guy Instantly? (73:59–81:33)
  • Sam’s remedy: “Go for a walk with headphones...Wallow Strut is like—there’s nothing like it.” (75:23)
  • George: “It’s like how when you smile, you trick your brain into being happy. If you just power strut, you will eventually feel better.” (76:25)
  • Baking and spa days are also suggested (“How fun to make a carrot cake.” [79:10])
• What Happened to the Soft Boy? (81:37–93:12)
  • Soft boy (2010s) vs. performative male (Gen Z):

    “The soft boy is soft despite the world, and now the performative male is soft as a way to attack others.” (83:07)

  • The hosts parse suspicion and cynicism, with George urging nuance:

    “There are definitely evil men, and there are definitely good men. But, like, this idea of performative male, I think you witness one a year, and you’re like, wow, this is who all the tweets are about, and it’s like, well, that’s not enough for it to be a phenomenon.” (84:22)

  • Sam: “There’s no vulnerability [left]...vulnerability has gone...it’s just menswear now.” (91:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Automate lunch, make dinner even more human.” (George, 06:36)
• “Your Chipotle loyalty is so strong that you move to LA...but because it’s so grandfathered in, Chipotle is where you go for burritos.” (George, 05:35)
• “Joie de vivre should be quantified...The more joie de vivre you have, you are adding to society.” (George, 10:57)
• “It’s convenience over joie de vivre every time.” (Sam, 14:07)
• “A barn coat acquires dignity and integrity with age.” (George, 34:03)
• “Cycling...You’re serving button balls all down the avenue.” (Sam, 42:01 / George, recurring riff)
• “A hobby with a bunch of gear is like heaven...Let’s add up all your gear!” (Sam, 47:13)
• “Southwest Airlines...the false promise.” (George, 54:32)
• “Choosing your own seat thing. Like, that is libertarian completely. And it just immediately makes everyone fucking crazy...” (Sam, 57:16)
• “Go for a walk with headphones in. Wallow strut is like, there’s nothing like it.” (Sam, 75:23)
• “The soft boy is soft despite the world, and now the performative male is soft as a way to attack others.” (Sam, 83:07)
• “Not everyone's an archetype. People have different flaws.” (George, 89:55)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening riff on lunch and convenience – 03:18–06:36
• Joie de vivre points and artist grants – 10:51–15:34
• Cliff Girl Patreon lore explained – 15:07–18:34
• YouTube history tutorials: aesthetics, politics, and production value – 18:34–26:43
• Barn coats and corduroy trousers: class, aging, and Britishness – 30:41–41:34
• Cycling as straight-gay détente and dads’ gear fetishes – 41:47–48:45
• Southwest Airlines: quirk to chaos, brand betrayal – 51:53–63:20
• Listener call: Survivor weaknesses – 66:26–70:11
• How to feel more gay guy instantly – 73:59–81:33
• Soft boy vs performative male archetype debate – 81:37–93:12

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Final Thoughts

This episode is archetypal StraightioLab: deeply referential, meta, and referential, but grounded in experiential observation and social critique. It teases out the quirks and oddities of straight—often white, middle class—norms in culture, fashion, and leisure, all while centering the tension between sincerity and irony, performance and authenticity.

Listeners come away with a heady mix of laughs, relatable social commentary, and at least five new frameworks for understanding the semiotics of lunch, outerwear, and airline seating. For fans of the show, this is StraightioLab at its loose, maximalist—and weirdly analytical—best.

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Transcript

[George Severis]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Sam Taggart]

Guaranteed Human the Old Gays are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with Veeve Healthcare. Robert, Mick, Bill and Jesse strut back down memory lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love and loss. These are the kinds of insights that only come from experience, so tune in to Silver Linings with the Old gays on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[George Severis]

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[Sam Taggart]

Big transfer news today. Who's moving me to the couch with Domino's?

[George Severis]

Best deal ever since they just added stuffed crust.

[Sam Taggart]

Any pizza, any toppings? Now with stuffed crust for 9.99. It's a long term contract with no release clause. Only 9.99? Yeah, that sounds like the move.

[George Severis]

I'm heading straight to Dom. Mmm. Price is higher for some locations. Excludes Excel and specialty pizzas.

[Sam Taggart]

Select this offer from 615 through 726 online only.

[George Severis]

Size availability varies by crest height, max topping 6 for pan and New York style crust. Minimum purchase required for delivery prices, participation,

[Sam Taggart]

delivery area and charges may vary

[George Severis]

during

[Sam Taggart]

Lowe's Pro Savings days. Save more on the brands you trust to deliver on the job. Right now. Get a free Dewalt 20 volt max

[George Severis]

8amp hour battery when you buy a

[Sam Taggart]

Dewalt 10 inch 20 volt max dual bevel compound miter saw plus get up to 35% off. Select major appliances. Save even more on what you need

[George Severis]

to keep the job moving.

[Sam Taggart]

Our best lineup is here at Lowe, valid through 731 while supplies last. Selection varies by location. SeeLowes.com for more details.

[George Severis]

Tour announcement starts now. This is George Just a reminder that you can see my dear co host Sam Taggart on tour this summer starting in July in San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Washington, D.C. philly, Chicago, Pittsburgh and Boston. And hot off the presses you can also see me, George Severis do a few small shows this August in anticipation for my own tour that's happening later on in the fall. But this August I will be in New York, Louisiana, and get this, East Hampton on August 30th. So if you want to see me In New York, Louisiana, or East Hampton, tickets [e-mail] George Severis. The Link is in my Instagram bio. And if you want to see Sam, you can find [e-mail] getthisamtaggart and that link is in his Instagram bio. God, we love symmetry, folks. Well, enjoy the show.

[Sam Taggart]

Podcast starts now.

[George Severis]

And welcome to Sleepytown usa, folks. Because we just had lunch. We had lunch from Tender Greens. Not a sponsor. Not a sponsor, but they do make kind of mediocre food.

[Sam Taggart]

So we would be happy to shout them out.

[George Severis]

I'd be happy to change my opinion on them at the drop of a hat.

[Sam Taggart]

I do love when people are good

[George Severis]

at that, about changing their opinion at the drop of.

[Sam Taggart]

Because of. There are some. There are some taste makers that we know personally, even who. They'll talk till the cows come home. And then they say, but this one I actually really like. You say, oh, why? And it's like, oh, I know why. Because they invited you to the big release.

[George Severis]

I've never seen that before. I've never known anyone we know to be dishonest in any way, you know, especially when it comes to cash being involved. Oftentimes I find the richer people get, the more honest they get and the better politics they have.

[Sam Taggart]

I think it's. I think it's actually even sadder. The money, on the one hand, of course, I understand. Yeah, of course I'll throw out any morals for money. But what I don't understand is being like, oh, I was invited to that event, so now I've changed my tune. It's like, you're that weak. Well, you won't be a hater just because they invited you to their event. I hate on my friends, and they

[George Severis]

invite me to one of their events.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, I'm still referring to them as my friends.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I'm going to their homes. I'm saying the decor here is not good.

[Sam Taggart]

Flop.

[George Severis]

Tina, you need to take stock of your life and redecorate.

[Sam Taggart]

But I would never tell that to their face. Of course.

[George Severis]

Sadly, my instinct is always to completely recalibrate my opinion based on an event. And I think something I respect about you is that you don't recalibrate your opinion based on an event. And often you have an even more negative opinion coming out of the event because you go to the event. You're saying, wow, I didn't even know this person was the. This brand was the type to host such a flop event. Now I like them even less.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that's really sad.

[George Severis]

Do you find that you are offended you don't have a Chipotle partnership yet? Considering how much money you give them

[Sam Taggart]

monthly, I'm one of the few who is a remaining Chipotle, Stan.

[George Severis]

Well, your Chipotle. What's the word? Your Chipotle. Not allyship.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know.

[George Severis]

You know what I mean?

[Sam Taggart]

Like partner, ambassador.

[George Severis]

No, your Chipotle loyalty. Yeah, thank you. Me, Your Chipotle loyalty. Everyone else's role is so strong that you move to la, which does have very good Mexican food, but because it's so grandfathered in, that Chipotle is where you go for burritos.

[Sam Taggart]

No good. I don't need good. This is what everyone's. Everyone's making a mistake.

[George Severis]

They think that Chipotle is on the same spectrum as, like, a good burrito. You're saying it's a different thing.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I'm not even saying that. I'm saying, like, when I am forced to eat lunch, which I am forced to every single day because I get hungry based on what my body has done to me, I get starving. And then it's like someone's like, what do you want something good? I'm like, no, I want what is walkable, what is on the way home. I want what is convenient when someone's like, well, let's get a good thing. I'm like that. Then, now it's a homework assignment. I have to look up what's good. I have to see where it is.

[George Severis]

That is the unfortunate thing with lunch is that gun to my head. Would I welcome it being automated? Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Now you know I'm not inhuman. Because I definitely want dinner to be fun. Dinner can be fun. I don't want dinner to be automated. And that's. This is. This is where I come out on the, you know, AI and automation debate. You know, automate lunch, make dinner even more human. Let's mix it up even more.

[Sam Taggart]

Let's do. I want lunch American style. And I want dinner European style.

[George Severis]

European style. We're in Paris. Giant baguette, two hours. Customers never. Right. It's three hours. The waiter spits.

[Sam Taggart]

Waiters also never write. No one's right.

[George Severis]

No one's right.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I mean, I know. This is like, I've complained about this one billion times. And we'll continue to. Breakfast, I want a pill. Lunch, I want a pill. Then dinner, of course. I'm down for fun.

[George Severis]

Okay, so I don't want a Pill for breakfast?

[Sam Taggart]

I'll have a pill.

[George Severis]

You want a pill for breakfast? Sure.

[Sam Taggart]

Basically all I'm doing today. You want to know what I did?

[George Severis]

How are you going to jumpstart your day with a pill?

[Sam Taggart]

I ate eggs as fast as possible to the point it made me nauseous. I said, this is disgusting. And then I went to the gym.

[George Severis]

Okay, well, where do I even begin? If you're going to eat as fast as possible, you got to go yogurt or cottage cheese or maybe toast with butter and honey or something like that. Toast and jam.

[Sam Taggart]

Toast is enough food and toast isn't enough.

[George Severis]

You put granola in it.

[Sam Taggart]

It's not enough.

[George Severis]

It is enough. Put fruit in it as well. Slice up a banana. Put in some raspberries and strawberries. Put in some, you know, sort of an artisanal honey from Vermont.

[Sam Taggart]

You know what's enough?

[George Severis]

Bee pollen?

[Sam Taggart]

Chipotle.

[George Severis]

You're not.

[Sam Taggart]

When you are eating chipotle, I'm saying thank you. This was enough.

[George Severis]

Yes. Well, I'm also saying thank you. I have diarrhea for five weeks.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that's true. I don't want to be that type of person that's like, oh, Chipotle, diarrhea. Because, you know. But then today I did wake up with a very upset stomach.

[George Severis]

It's because you had chipotle literally yesterday.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. And I was like, what's weird? I've been so normal.

[George Severis]

And I was like, oh, speaking of lunch being automated, something that I have. I'm actually shocked I'm about to admit this on air because this is a deep shame of mine. My gym sells little boxes of like baked chicken tenders that are bad, that are for gym bros that just want protein. Like, they're like non fried chicken tenders that have some sort of like nut based coating. And one time, because I just needed something, I got one and I found myself being like, this is actually pretty good. And it's like actually pretty effective in terms of its protein content. And now I'm doing that, like, not infrequently really. And that's is embarrassing. So that is. I'm halfway to automating lunch.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that checks out for me. You know, there's something. No vegetarian. Of course, those days are behind me.

[George Severis]

But were you a vegetarian?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, for like a, like four to five years after college. Because I was doing that thing where I was like, well, cooking meat is disgusting. Like, I was like, this is so gross. And someone was like, that's pretty hypocritical for our generation. You're right.

[George Severis]

Being a vegetarian in college and for the three years after college is like how, you know, no offense, but various people will have identified as queer in the generation after us and then will be happily married and living in Arkansas by the time they are approximately 28 years old.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, legit, but.

[George Severis]

And they'll think, and it's like how we think of the hippies. And it's like, then the hippies grew up and just like bought homes. And they'll be like, wasn't it so fun when we just like randomly were queer?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah. I love being 24. But that being said, sometimes I'm like, I do think if a chicken had to choose, like, who's going to eat me? Yeah, I would be chosen.

[George Severis]

Okay, so you're saying if they're like,

[Sam Taggart]

okay, I'm no matter what, I'm gonna be eaten. Yeah, it would be like. And they would look at like the gym, bro, and then like be like, do I want to be tenders at Equinox in the fridge or do I want to be Sam's chipotle burrito?

[George Severis]

I see, so you're saying that a chicken, you know, we should give up on minimizing industrialized farming and all that stuff. Of course people are eating chicken the end period. Stop trying to fix it. But then there's a harm reduction model of like, okay, well a chicken is gonna get eaten. Wouldn't it be better if it was eaten by a whimsical gay guy comedian than, you know, Mike Pence?

[Sam Taggart]

You have joie de vivre points and no more money. You cash in your joie de vivre points to eat meat.

[George Severis]

Well, I've long thought that joie de vivre should be quantified and kind involved in a kind of like a tax based or tax savings system, like a tax credit system basically. Like, I think the more joie de vivre you have, you are adding to society more than someone who doesn't have joie de vivre. So then that means that you should be rewarded for it. And I think there's genuinely no way to like fake it because joie de vivre, joie de vivre. Let's say you install the joie de vivre tax credit system. There's no way. It's not like you can't do joie de vivre fraud in the way that you can do real estate estate tax fraud.

[Sam Taggart]

People try to do joie de vivre fraud on social media.

[George Severis]

That's a good point.

[Sam Taggart]

They're like, look how kooky this event was. And it's like, no, it wasn't. And you weren't fun there.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

In fact, you posting that you're losing some joie de vie points.

[George Severis]

Of course, the question then becomes who's in charge of raiding the joie de vie? Well, the minister, but I don't think it can be a politician because politicians are of course, the kings and queens of faking joie de vivre, of doing joie de vivre fraud. What is electoral politics if not a mass joie de vivre fraud campaign system?

[Sam Taggart]

So we need like a panel of judges.

[George Severis]

I would almost say, like, you know how there are people and we know these people in our lives that like unfortunately have too much of an artist's heart to ever hold a full time job. I know many or kind of like go into, go into any kind of like financial transaction and come out of it on top.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, they can't even. They can't. Beyond having a job. They can't even have a podcast.

[George Severis]

Yes. No, that's the thing.

[Sam Taggart]

Going somewhere once a week. I'd rather die.

[George Severis]

No, like making plans, making lunch, showing up anywhere more than, you know, less than four hours late. Those people need to be found by some sort of committee. Of course. Then it's like, who's on the committee? Okay, but that's different. I think there needs to be. We need to locate those people in society. They're not gonna be successful within society. So what if we task them with raiding the joie de vivre?

[Sam Taggart]

I think this is a really good idea. It solves two problems.

[George Severis]

It solves two problems because it gives jobs to the unemployable. Let's call a spade a spade. And then it also creates a system where people with joie de vivre that can have jobs are rewarded for their joie de fe.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I'm moved. I did have, I feel like one more point regarding joie de vivre, but of course, due to my beautiful tender greens sandwich. That's right, folks. Tender greens is not just salads. They also have sandwiches that are as mediocre as a salad, which seemed there was.

[George Severis]

It was a sort of like grilled bread.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, it was quite greasy.

[George Severis]

It looked very greasy.

[Sam Taggart]

I was sort of like, what? How'd you get this shout out, though?

[George Severis]

I'm sort of like, when they make a sandwich into. I'm like, what is the point? I should have just had spaghetti and meatballs if we were gonna go this route.

[Sam Taggart]

Honey, if there was a spaghetti and meatballs placed nearby, we could have gotten it but it's not convenient.

[George Severis]

It's not convenient.

[Sam Taggart]

Convenience is key, Especially in Los Angeles, California. Sorry.

[George Severis]

It's convenience over joie de vivre every time.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. The thing is, we already have joie de vivre points.

[George Severis]

Ooh, tell me.

[Sam Taggart]

Artist grants.

[George Severis]

Right. I think that ideally that's what that would be. But what's happening there is the people being rewarded are the ones that can fill out a Google Doc already. That takes away. That does take away so many people with Zra Daviv.

[Sam Taggart]

That's true. I recently have learned. I obviously knew about the concept of artist grants, but recently it's really hit me where I'm like, wait, people just get money to go to Maine for a month and like, quote, unquote, write?

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, that's awesome.

[George Severis]

And there's people who, like, that's how they fund their entire career. That's like, the way they do it.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, we gotta get one of those. It doesn't seem real to me, but I also, like. Nothing does. And so basically. But we already have an artist grant in the form of our beautiful Patreon.

[George Severis]

That's true. We have an artist grant that you can opt into, and then we get the grant, and it's called patreon.com stradiolab. And one of the tiers is the Cliff girl tier, which, you know, just

[Sam Taggart]

some Stradio lab lore. Cliff girl was. We did Cliff girl Summer, which was celebrating girls that jump off a cliff into a body of water and take a picture of it.

[George Severis]

Well, to be clear, they don't jump off the cliff. They are on the cliff doing a photo shoot.

[Sam Taggart]

I think sometimes they jump.

[George Severis]

You think they jump to their death?

[Sam Taggart]

No, in the water.

[George Severis]

Oh. See, to look so free to me,

[Sam Taggart]

a cliff girl to Madonna, feel so

[George Severis]

free to me, a cliff girl is like being on the cliff and taking a photo. And you're sacrificing safety for maximum view behind you.

[Sam Taggart]

I think you're allowed to hop in.

[George Severis]

You're allowed to hop in. Okay. See, I guess I'm imagining, to be quite honest, a much more dangerous cliff than you are. Because in the cliff that I'm imagining, you can't hop in.

[Sam Taggart]

Mine's a hoppable cliff.

[George Severis]

Oh, a hoppable cliff.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Well, maybe in this day and age, you know, when we first came up with Cliff Girl Summer, you could go to a more dangerous cliff. In this day and age, you got to play it safe. You got to go to a cliff. Is it a cliff or is it a curb on the Street.

[Sam Taggart]

So basically, they're at the metaphorical cliff of our top tier in the Patreon, which means they are allowed to suggest,

[George Severis]

suggest and even choose. And even choose a topic for us to discuss. A straight topic for us to discuss. We've only done it once before. Yeah, we did it with a guest. This time we are doing it without a guest because we kind of want to give it our full attention.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And while I think it would be fun to do it with a guest, I feel more personally connected to the Cliff Girls. And, you know, you bring in a guest, you tell them quick, what are your thoughts about corduroy pants? Yeah, they're gonna flop.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, also, the guests, they come here, they're shaking, they're scared, and, you know, we have to coddle them and be like, no, what's your straight topic?

[George Severis]

No, it's hell. So basically, I'm going to pull up this. I'm going to say only their first name, just in case they don't want to be doxxed. Harry, who is a Cliff Girl tier patron. I'm going to be honest here. They no longer are a Cliff Girl tier patron, but they were for a number of months. They've gone back to the normal glamour girl tier, which is only $5 a month. So very tasty stuff. Very tasty. Anyone can do that. And if you are not financially able to, you can steal that money and do it. So Harry has a few thoughts about straight topics that they would like to see discussed. YouTube history tutorials. Corduroy trousers. Now, trousers is interesting. This is a Brit.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I'm like, are you. Is this person British?

[George Severis]

I think, I mean, Harry.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure.

[George Severis]

Like Harry Potter or Prince Harry.

[Sam Taggart]

Right, the two Harrys.

[George Severis]

The two big Harrys. Barn coats. Well, that's again, very British. I didn't even think of cycling, even calling it cycling. Very British.

[Sam Taggart]

So basically.

[George Severis]

But then here's the last topic. Southwest Airlines. Not British at all. I don't think people in the UK even know what that is.

[Sam Taggart]

Maybe he's bicoastal.

[George Severis]

Maybe he's like Jemima Kirk, who is, like fully American but has a fake British accent.

[Sam Taggart]

Or Madonna.

[George Severis]

Or Madonna during her Guy Ritchie era, of course. Okay, so basically we have YouTube history tutorials, corduroy trousers, barn coats, cycling and Southwest Airlines right off the bat. YouTube History Tutorials is an interesting phrasing.

[Sam Taggart]

So that confused me.

[George Severis]

I believe that it is incorrect and not to start immediately attacking our dear Cliff Girl.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay.

[George Severis]

But I think maybe what this means is just YouTube history videos writ large. I don't know how you would tutor someone into history.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, no, I think you're right.

[George Severis]

I think we can.

[Sam Taggart]

We can assume it's that.

[George Severis]

I think it's like you long YouTube history videos that are teaching you about, like, a specific battle in the Revolutionary War.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. What do you feel? Do you feel this is straight?

[George Severis]

You know, I go back and forth with YouTube video culture because it is something that I. Is so alien to me. I never was attracted to it. And at this point, it has gone through so many phases that I just like, wouldn't even know where to begin.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And obviously my immediate kind of like elitist take is like, read a book. Why are you watching a, you know, a YouTube tutorial about that's already 15 hours long when you could just read a book?

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, YouTube, I obviously the straightness is like, straight guys love history. This has been like, discussed many, many times. But I do think the YouTube twist on it is interesting because it's like, I can't separate YouTube from, like, sort of becoming radicalized on accident.

[George Severis]

Oh, interesting.

[Sam Taggart]

And like, I know that there's a type that when you like, accept YouTube as normal, you just like, your whole world changes and you're like, okay, now I watch this as just one more channel.

[George Severis]

So my association with YouTube is still. And maybe this is pre. When radicalizing became the big thing. To me, YouTube is like having a kind of like man. Like a nerdy man cave where you're on a video gaming chair and you have like five keyboards and behind you there's like, you know, what are those little action figures called with the big heads?

[Sam Taggart]

Funko Pops.

[George Severis]

Like a Funko Pop. And there's like, it's this combination of like, video game, Pokemon, film, nerd, sort of like honestly, podcasting, like all of those together. And it's like someone whose entire life is kind of like doing analysis of pop culture detritus.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure. You're like going like a bit twitch streamer with it.

[George Severis]

Yes, yes. To me it's much more twitch streamer. But of course I understand what you're talking about, which is like being like manosphere radicalization.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Well, it just becomes a TV channel, but then it's still an algorithm and that like self feeds things. So you are like, if you start out, you're like, I'm kind of curious about history. And then it's like history to like, white nationalism is like such an easy little path now.

[George Severis]

That's interesting. I guess, I guess that's true. I think you're focusing correctly more on the politics of it. And I'm focusing more on the aesthetics of it. Like, to me, what turns me off of YouTube, because I don't get served radicalizing things. What turns me off of it is just that I think often it looks bad. And I'm like, oh, I don't want to be in this room. I don't want to even. Sorry to say this, but even someone, like, contrapoints the reason initially, even though everyone was like, you should watch her video. She's really great. But I was like, wait, but why is she dressed like a witch? And she's dressed like Ella Enchanted and she's doing a weird voice. I can see that she is smart and that I would read maybe a book she wrote, but why do I have to buy into this aesthetic language?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, there is something where visual. Does this need to be visual? This kind of goes back to your book thing where it is like, we're putting all these bells and whistles on this thing, and it's like, even a history podcast. I'm like, sure, but history YouTube video. Because I'm down for a Ken Burns

[George Severis]

documentary that I was about to say,

[Sam Taggart]

but the creator is too involved in a YouTube video.

[George Severis]

And I'm also like, don't you want production value?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, this is the big question.

[George Severis]

I'm like, one of my biggest realizations is that no one cares about production value. I thought that all of us, I thought all of us were craving more expensively produced things. And it turns out people want to watch vertical video dramas that are written by AI and they don't care.

[Sam Taggart]

But I don't know, this is where this gets me. Existential. Because I'm like, well, yeah, we also voted Trump as our president.

[George Severis]

Clip that.

[Sam Taggart]

The majority of people are not correct and they need to be told what's

[George Severis]

good in terms of the straightness of it, then, okay, here's something about YouTube that stresses me out. And maybe this is because I'm a traditionalist, but I'm like, what genre is this? Do you know what I mean? There's something where I'm like, when I'm watching a documentary, I know it's a documentary. Even when I'm watching a video podcast, I can say, okay, this is a podcast that was filmed when I'm reading a book, fine. When I'm listening to radio, fine. There's something about YouTube where I'm like, how am I meant to interpret this? Am I meant to interpret this through the lens of watching a film, through the lens of experiencing an audiobook in some capacity?

[Sam Taggart]

Right. Do I judge this against a TV show?

[George Severis]

Yes. Which actually goes back to my aesthetic anxiety is like, what aesthetic category am I engaging with? And I need to know so that I can then. Because guess what? If I was watching this video podcast and the aesthetic category that I had in my mind was late night talk show, I'd be like, this sucks. There are no bits. There's one camera angle. Where's Jennifer Lawrence?

[Sam Taggart]

There was a bit about the pill.

[George Severis]

Why aren't we, you know, throwing to advertisements about Viagra?

[Sam Taggart]

Like, we talked about tender greens.

[George Severis]

That's true. We talk about tender greens, which we like. Okay, but you know what I mean.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, like, I do know what you mean.

[George Severis]

But then. But then it's like, if I'm interpreting this as a podcast, I'm like, oh, my God, there's video even better than a normal podcast.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, and they're handsome.

[George Severis]

So that is my issue. And I think that. And I actually think what's. And here I am landing the plane. What's straight about it is the lack is not caring about aesthetic categories. It's basically being like, well, I want to learn something. I don't care how sure it can be someone talking to camera and then kind of having some poorly produced video and then sometimes citing things, sometimes not citing things. And I don't care about placing that within an existing history of a form.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm sure people will get mad at us because they'll be like, well, this YouTube video actually is really amazing.

[George Severis]

Yeah, well, this other one is not. So point stands.

[Sam Taggart]

But I'm like, there is. Where do you feel like, does the word slop apply to any of this?

[George Severis]

What's interesting? And I want to be respectful here.

[Sam Taggart]

Of course.

[George Severis]

The thing is, regardless of my own hesitations, some of these people actually are doing more work than Ken Burns. Do you know what I mean? The term slop has to do with easily produced, discardable things. And I don't want to take to me a contrapoints video. She does so much work to get it where it is. And in many ways it has more to offer, quite frankly, than some streaming documentary series that's about true crime. And they had to make it in two months because it was something that was in the news and they want to cash in on it. So I almost am not even making an argument about the quality, if that makes sense. But that said, on the other side of that, at the very least, a streaming service has some bar, whereas YouTube obviously has no bar. So the contrapoints video can coexist alongside literal slop that's just like nothing. Like, it's just like the pink chicken that McDonald's makes to go bring it back to chicken.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

What do you think?

[Sam Taggart]

I'm agreeing with all of this. I'm trying to think if I have any other take to add because I feel that you nailed it.

[George Severis]

Thank you.

[Sam Taggart]

I kind of move on to the next one since we have a bunch.

[George Severis]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] switch upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent to taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy, see terms.

[Sam Taggart]

Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary, massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up up alone, very far from Earth. I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it.

[George Severis]

I was like, no.

[Sam Taggart]

At this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that that deeply embedded, emotionally affected me, and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to Hearsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with Veeve Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jesse have in store. This time around, they strut back down memory lane, navigating life, love, loss, and everything. That shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into a song. From leather bars to bath houses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kind of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy only gets better with age. On the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[George Severis]

Awkward time to ask this, but. Hey, did you download the trail map?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, no, I don't need to.

[George Severis]

I don't understand. You're trusting your signal out here.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm trusting T Mobile. They have the best network and if

[George Severis]

we end up in bumtots nowhere, well,

[Sam Taggart]

we've got T Satellite for backup.

[George Severis]

Whoa. I don't trust my carrier that much.

[Sam Taggart]

We'll just use your phone as a flashlight. With America's best network and T Satellite, we're keeping you connected in places you never thought possible.

[George Severis]

And if you switch today, you get

[Sam Taggart]

free phones for zero down and only 25 bucks a month per line for four lines. Find out more@t mobile.com or visit your local store.

[George Severis]

Best mobile network Based on analysis by Ooklev speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 with 24 monthly bill credits and 4 eligible port ins on essentials for well qualified customers with autopay plus taxes, fees and $35 connection charge per line credits and imbalance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Contact Us Finance Agreement example $299.99 Moto H5G required T Satellite available with compatible device in most outdoor areas in the US where you can see the sky included with experience beyond or $10 a month. However, news monthly cancel anytime. Visit t mobile.com. All right, next one is. Well, it says corduroy trousers and or barn coats. I'm actually not sure. Yeah, I'm not sure if that means corduroy trousers and or corduroy barn coats or like they're being grouped together because they are both articles of clothing and it's like corduroy trousers, barn coats.

[Sam Taggart]

I want to do the second one.

[George Severis]

Barn coats is a great straight topic that is like, that's one that if someone brought in we would be excited about it and we would be like, yes, there's so much to talk about here.

[Sam Taggart]

It's just such a loaded piece of clothing. It's obviously like preppy. It's like, at my college, it's very sorority girl with the big hunter boots, and you pretend you're in London or something.

[George Severis]

So what is your history with barn coats?

[Sam Taggart]

Well. Well, I do feel like the time I was in college, there was a thing where people were wearing vintage ones, and it was really chic and cool. And so there's a part of me that's always like, one day I'm going to do it. And it would be like, obviously, like a guy who's, like, tatted up on his face, and then he's like, wearing the barn coat. So it's like high, low, like, and it's like kind of a cool, like. Yeah, I was crazy. And now I wear barn coats and have two dogs.

[George Severis]

So for me, this is sort of out of left field. In Greece, specifically, Barbour, barn coats are huge.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[George Severis]

And it's like, it's actually like a upper class signifier, like, in a big way. Like, the, all the, like, rich kids have barber coats to the point where I was like, oh, this is something so many people around me have. I'll go buy one. And I didn't realize it was, like, $400. So, like, I thought that it would be something I could buy with, like, my allowance.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

I'm trying to think of another thing like that, that, like, I don't know enough about jewelry, but to me, it's like, let's say all the rich girls have, like, Tiffany bracelets or something. And you think, oh, that must be like, a thing that teens have. And it turns out their moms bought them for them and they're actually, like, super, super expensive.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

I. So. And I really associate. I. So I associate it with a kind of, like, rich Euro kid. So much so that I. I had never quite understood where it came from. The idea that it came from, like, British horse culture. Like, British, like, you know, outdoorsy. Yeah. The idea that it's even outdoorsy had never occurred to me because to me it was like, oh, what's nice about this is that it's, like, weatherproof and so you can wear it. And I think, I assume one of the reasons it's popular in Greece is because it's temperate enough that you don't need, like, a puffer in the winter, but you do need a jacket. So it would. I feel like it was people's nice jacket that they had rather than, like a peacoat.

[Sam Taggart]

There was a exchange student that came to college my senior year, and he was, like, British and, like, cool and wore, like, you know, a ratty Smith's T shirt, but was also, like, really intellectual. And, like, he was in my Chaucer class. And we were, like, obsessed with him. And we were like, we're going to make him our friend. And so then we did. And he always wore a, like, ratty barber jacket. And I was like, damn, he's the coolest guy ever.

[George Severis]

Sorry. If you listen to that, that was me opening a delicious and refreshing Diet Coke, which is a product I do believe in, and I would actually be very open to sponsorship. Okay. You said something that I think is really, really, really important, which is that a barber jacket is one of the tattered element of it is one of those, like a cast iron pan. It's one of those things that, like, acquires dignity and integrity with age.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

And there's, like, a whole process involved in, like, quote unquote, taking care of it. And it's like, you don't want it to look new. You want it to look like it's been lived in. And that, to me is. Well, I was about to say that, to me, is straight. Let me think if I. Let me think if I agree with that.

[Sam Taggart]

I think it becomes straight because it's a performance. It's like you are, like, actively sort of like you'll, like, age it. You'll find ways to age it on purpose. Sort of like it's like the strife of the jacket is not real. Right.

[George Severis]

I mean, it reminds me of, like, the concept of breaking in loafers or breaking in Doc Martens or guys who are really into, like, selvedge denim. And it's like there's a whole process, like, they wear it around the house so that it can be broken in even though it makes their, like, legs bleed.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I have a question regarding British fashion in general.

[George Severis]

Please do. I'm an expert. So, like, please welcome Alexa Chung.

[Sam Taggart]

When, like, you know, we're in a conservative swing, of course, and that reflects in our clothes. For example, I'm wearing a yellow polo

[George Severis]

and boat shoes, and I'm wearing, like, olive colored chinos.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. So, like. But sometimes British fashion comes in and out. What does that mean politically?

[George Severis]

Like what? Right.

[Sam Taggart]

What is that reflecting in America when British fashion is in?

[George Severis]

Well, there is also British. I mean, to me, British fashion is also, like, punk rock stuff.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

There's preppy British fashion and there's counterculture British fashion. And actually, maybe that's what it is at any given point in America, either preppy British fashion or counterculture British fashion is in. And maybe that's the bellwether of whether we're in a conservative or progressive mode.

[Sam Taggart]

But currently I feel like British fashion is generally not in.

[George Severis]

Let me think.

[Sam Taggart]

People are being like, no, I'm American.

[George Severis]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[Sam Taggart]

Like I work at the docs.

[George Severis]

I don't necessarily. I think you're correct. I don't necessarily think it almost is

[Sam Taggart]

tied to twee, because that's when, like,

[George Severis]

we're in a much more Japanese moment. That's true. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think the people that want to be inspired by another country's fashion are going Japan and they're not going London.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

If anything, I actually think British people are going New York. Like, British people are being inspired by American fashion.

[Sam Taggart]

Interesting.

[George Severis]

And American people are being inspired by Japanese fashion.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm getting dizzy.

[George Severis]

And you know what else? Okay. If any fashion people are listening. Shut up. What I have to say is, you know the Balenciaga, the Balenciaga vibe that then trickled down into gay guys wearing Salomons, oversized shorts and little baby doll tees. What that was co opting was actually a sort of poorer European aesthetic of soccer jersey, off brand, fake designer stuff, ugly big sneakers. You know what I mean? And that's not from the uk, that's from Slovenia. It's like that's. That was the European influence that we then brought into high fashion rather than preppy Barbour. Whatever.

[Sam Taggart]

Interesting.

[George Severis]

Do you know what I mean?

[Sam Taggart]

I do.

[George Severis]

It was a co opting of working class European.

[Sam Taggart]

I now feel shame about saying Eastern European.

[George Severis]

Oh, right. I don't know where we stand on that. Excuse me. It's Diacoca.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I'm sort of like, is that wrong?

[George Severis]

No, I think it's fine. This is like the joke, the joke that a billion movies made in the 2000s where it's like someone says someone is Mexican and then the other person's like, you can't say that because it's like a guilty white woman.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, it's even just like, I think, honestly, I feel like you one time were like, well, everyone just says Eastern European when they're like trying to sort of say something else.

[George Severis]

Well, I think there's. I do think Eastern European is often a shortcut for whether it's Balkan countries, whether it's frankly even certain, like Middle Eastern or Asian countries. Like, it's basically like defined in opposition to the big ones, like France, Germany. Like, there's normal Europe, there's Eastern Europe. There's like white and there's spicy white. And like, that's basically what An American commentator is saying, when they say Eastern European.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

There's also. There was this almost like meme where people love to be like, he has the sadness. It's like a sadness in the eyes of a Eastern European porn actor or something. There's something like, depraved about saying Eastern European.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah. Well, that was my hesitation, basically.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

But generally I agree with you and I. My other issue is, of course, that I don't know what countries are in Eastern Europe even. And other than the big ones, I'm sort of.

[George Severis]

That's why it's important to go Japan, England, end of list. Pick one, bitch. Yeah, but I wonder if. Because I actually think the return to England, I think there was an anxiety around cultural appropriation and that's what brought people back to Europe because, like, white people, like, white American people were like, well, I don't want to be accused of doing love angel music, baby. Level appropriation a la Gwen Stefani. Of course I don't want to be accused of, you know, appropriating hip hop and streetwear. So what's safe? People that are even whiter than I am.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And I wonder if the new. The, like, Japanese menswear moment is actually like a canary in the coal mine, where now we're gonna go back into a moment of, like, rampant cultural appropriation.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I even. Isn't that, like, already over? I feel like the Japanese thing is like, it's already like a red flag. Like, it's like, okay, you need to chill. Unless you are Asian in any capacity. You need to chill.

[George Severis]

Yeah, unless you're Asian, you need to chill.

[Sam Taggart]

You can't be wearing head to toe, like, Japanese fashion.

[George Severis]

Do we want to talk about. You can't. But. And yet I want to. And yet I'm like, what bank do I have to rob to get some orally button down shirts in this town?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Well, I will be wearing a barber jacket in the next 10 years. Well, you are. Pardon me on that, but that's. That's.

[George Severis]

I feel like a natural evolution of your style.

[Sam Taggart]

It's true.

[George Severis]

One last thought about barber jacket, please. To me, of course, the cool countercultural thing to do. Black Barbour jacket.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[George Severis]

Yeah. It's so like.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, this is the big question. It's a very identity question. When you are to pick your jacket, it's like, do you go traditional or do you get the dark one?

[George Severis]

To me, having a black one is so cool.

[Sam Taggart]

It's like, really?

[George Severis]

It's Justin Theroux during his, like, David lynch era.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I see that. For me, I'm like, no, you want. You gotta get traditional.

[George Severis]

You wanted to go like the olive green. Olive brown.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, you gotta.

[George Severis]

Maybe you gotta.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, what's the.

[George Severis]

Do we wanna talk about corduroys?

[Sam Taggart]

Meh. Yeah, do the next one. Okay, it's like the same thing.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Next one is cycling. And then we have Southwest Airlines.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God. Okay. Cycling is interesting because obviously you would think, period. Period, you would think it's gay.

[George Severis]

Why tights?

[Sam Taggart]

But. But balls. You're serving tights.

[George Severis]

Butt balls.

[Sam Taggart]

You're serving button balls.

[George Severis]

When you're serving button balls, you're serving

[Sam Taggart]

button balls all down the avenue.

[George Severis]

You're serving button balls all down the avenue.

[Sam Taggart]

And. And it's like, there's something about it where it's like, are you cruising? Like there's something about it where you're like cruising. Yeah, you're serving button balls down the avenue. You're going to remote locations. I'm like, why are you going there?

[George Severis]

Oh, I see. You are. See, it's funny. I'm imagining competitive cycling. Like, what? I think you are correct. I think you are correct and I'm wrong. But my, my immediate image in my mind was like, Lance Armstrong.

[Sam Taggart]

That's so interesting.

[George Severis]

I'm thinking of the. What's the French one called?

[Sam Taggart]

Tour de France.

[George Severis]

Tour de France. I'm thinking of the Tour de France. And I'm thinking of Livestrong bracelet, Lance Armstrong, all the gear. But I think you are correct that I think what this means is more like cycling as a hobby for a dad.

[Sam Taggart]

That's what I. Cause in that capacity, I do think it's gay. Even though it's straight guys doing it. Because it's like if they were really straight, they'd play football.

[George Severis]

Right.

[Sam Taggart]

They are like, strange. Yeah, they're alt. If they're like a competitive athlete.

[George Severis]

Yeah, they're basically like a figure skater. Yeah, I do think.

[Sam Taggart]

But if you're like a guy who does it, like Saturday mornings you wake up and you go for like a 20 mile cycle.

[George Severis]

So my dad is like that.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And it is. I mean, one of the funniest things, of course, is dads getting into various hobbies, specifically when those hobbies involve gear. And even more specifically when that gear is like gay as hell. Like the fact that my dad has multiple tight little booty shorts with that padded butt.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, your dad is serving button balls down the avenue.

[George Severis]

Serving button balls down the avenue. Boots. And then it's like. And then I'm gonna go home to My wife. That's not dignified. Well, that's because you just serve button balls down the avenue all morning long.

[Sam Taggart]

All men.

[George Severis]

Now you're gonna go to church.

[Sam Taggart]

I'll take this generalization. All men crave serving button balls, but they aren't allowed to. Straight gay guys get their outlet because basically anywhere you go, you can serve button balls. Straight mentioned everywhere, don't get to serve button balls. And they're like, well, I want to do that, too.

[George Severis]

I do think you are right. I think that the fact that formal wear, you know, think of a traditional. You're in the suburbs, you're in a traditional marriage formal wear. At least a woman can have a little boob out, Even if she's very conservative. She's going to church, she can have

[Sam Taggart]

a little boob out. Yes.

[George Severis]

The man isn't even allowed to show what the shape of his body is.

[Sam Taggart]

No.

[George Severis]

So come Sunday, yeah, you want to serve some button balls.

[Sam Taggart]

You're cycling, you're putting on the tightest little shorts you got, and you're serving button balls.

[George Severis]

And I actually think it's more satisfying than even wearing a bathing suit, because there's something very unerotic about a male bathing suit unless you do it exactly the right way. Whereas I think with cycling, you're wearing. You're doing bondage wear. You're kind of. It's Herve Lager.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. It's also a solo journey.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, you're like, I'm having autonomy for once. And part of that is I'm running away. I'm running away and I'm having thoughts first. I shouldn't have these thoughts while my balls are showing.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

But here I am. It's like, the only time they're free. Correct. Sometimes I think about that where I'm like. I think about people with children, and I am like, oh, my God. You talk about needing a grant. Like, I'm like, if I go for a week without having the best day of my life, I'm like, okay, so my life is in shambles, whereas people go years without having the best day of their life.

[George Severis]

Do you think there should be grants for leaving your children for, like, a set period of time and that makes it socially acceptable? It's like, obviously abandoning your family is wrong. But what if you got a grant to do something for four months and it's like, well, I have this note from the government. I can take a break from my kids for four months.

[Sam Taggart]

I absolutely think you should get to do that. It feels so wrong that you can't do that. Imagine having a kid and then trying to plan a vacation.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God. Hell.

[Sam Taggart]

Hell. So that's why you take up cycling.

[George Severis]

I mean, there is a lot of dad activities are running away coded, you know what I mean? Like, it sort of is like, even the idea of going for a drive, the idea of being into cars at all. They're always obsessed with modes of transportation.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

It's like you want to leave your family.

[Sam Taggart]

It's very girl, where do you think you're going?

[George Severis]

Where do you think you're going?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. But even by leaving, then they're like, oh, now I want to go back. It's like they're testing themselves.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Do I really want to be here? I could just bike away.

[George Severis]

Right? But maybe it's like you're forcing yourself to miss. It's sort of like microdosing, leaving your family. You're forcing yourself to go up a mountain, then you miss them and then you come back.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. You're like, that was scary.

[George Severis]

The entire time you've been contemplating leaving for good. But they don't have to know that.

[Sam Taggart]

But also, dads do love gear.

[George Severis]

Of course.

[Sam Taggart]

They love, like, because they want to shop.

[George Severis]

They want to shop, but they don't

[Sam Taggart]

want to do it in a gay way, of course. So they're like, I'm going to buy as much gear as I can. Yeah. They're like, a hobby with a bunch of gear is like heaven, you know,

[George Severis]

you say, oh, look at that woman. She's so wasteful. She got a Birkin bag. Let's add up all your gear.

[Sam Taggart]

Let's add up the gear that's sitting in the garage, mind you, sitting, gathering dust.

[George Severis]

At least the Birkin has, you know, some tissues in it.

[Sam Taggart]

Not to mention it's gaining value.

[George Severis]

Gaining. It's gaining value.

[Sam Taggart]

It gains more value over time. The vintage ones are even better.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God, that's so true. Which they need to fix that. I should be able to buy a vintage leather jacket. That's $5.

[Sam Taggart]

Don't even get me started. Although mine was quite affordable for six months.

[George Severis]

I know, it's crazy. I don't know how you manage that.

[Sam Taggart]

I lucked out. So cycling, I mean, I.

[George Severis]

There's something. Okay, here's another thing. This is cycling. I'm like, that bike is too skinny. You know what I mean?

[Sam Taggart]

What do you mean it's too skinny? You mean, like.

[George Severis]

So, like, when I look at a mountain bike, I'm like, that's what a bike should look like. You need to be able to like, see the tires? My point is it goes back to like. It's an outlet. It's like a feminine outlet for straight guys. They want to serve balls, balls and butt. And they want to be skinny as possible. They want to be skinny. Like, it's like they're strutting down the Runway on their skinny bike, serving button balls on the avenue.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm getting it now.

[George Severis]

It's not manly for a bike to be that skinny.

[Sam Taggart]

Being on a bike is a drag performance.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Literally.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, I get it.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Let's move on to Southwest Airlines. Hey, everyone, it's Kal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth. I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating so of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo. Is this indulgent? And I really thought about it.

[George Severis]

I was like, no.

[Sam Taggart]

At this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that. That deeply, emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh, my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to Irsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[George Severis]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow. When network is busy, see terms.

[Sam Taggart]

Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with Veeve healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and just say have in store. This time around, they strut back down memory lane, navigating life, love, loss and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into a song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kind of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy only gets better with age. On the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[George Severis]

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[Sam Taggart]

The AC calling it quits. Who do you call? Homeserve is an easy way to handle unexpected home repairs with plans covering stuff

[George Severis]

basic homeowners insurance usually won't. Instead of scrambling for a contractor, you make one call to get the repair process started.

[Sam Taggart]

Join the millions of customers who trust home serve right now.

[George Severis]

Go to homeserve.com podcast for 50% less your first year. That's homeserve.com podcast savings compared to renewal

[Sam Taggart]

price void in Florida.

[George Severis]

So Southwest Airlines, which obviously is the

[Sam Taggart]

huge outlier because everything else is British coding.

[George Severis]

No, it's weird. It's like you. It's all these British things and then Southwest Airlines, which it's like, did you

[Sam Taggart]

hear about that on a TV show? Like, where'd this come from?

[George Severis]

Or are you in? I mean, the word trousers, of course, is what really throws me off. Like to just casually say trousers. That means you literally are British.

[Sam Taggart]

Or weird.

[George Severis]

Maybe you're like one of those old fashioned, like Williamsburg hipsters with the handlebar mustaches. Like, you've just like never grown out of that face.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, still in tune.

[George Severis]

You're just like saying trousers because you think it's kind of old timey and fun.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, let's hope not. But.

[George Severis]

Or maybe you are fully half British, half American or something, or half a British mom and you grew up with her saying that, but you actually grew up in Connecticut.

[Sam Taggart]

I met someone recently. Who I'm like, I always assume no one listens, so I'm like, I'll just say whoever. But I met someone and he was like. So he grew up. He lived till he was. His parents are American. He lived in England until he was like 13.

[George Severis]

Well, was it Ned?

[Sam Taggart]

No.

[George Severis]

Okay. Because Ned is like that.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, well, then he lived in the bay area from 13 to whatever till college.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

But talking to him, I was like, sometimes he's British accent, sometimes he's American accent.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And I was like, now this is interesting.

[George Severis]

Well, also, to go from England to the Bay Area, it's like, that is way too much of a culture shock. At least make a stop in New York.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. That's crazy. That's scary to me.

[George Severis]

I've always. There was a girl when we lived in New Jersey whose family moved to London, and then they moved back, and I was like, that is fucking fabulous. So you were just like, I'm gonna go become a little British, and then I'm gonna come back.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I would definitely pick up the accent.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God. I pick up. It happens to me constantly. One time when we went on a cruise, I developed a Southern accent because a lot of people, the kids I was hanging out with were Southern. When Matthew visits my parents, he develops a sort of neutral European accent and a sort of a cadence that's kind of like this.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Yeah. I have to watch myself when I'm around British people because I'm like, don't do it back to them. Don't do it back. But I want them to feel at home. So Southwest Airlines, is it straight?

[George Severis]

I guess, to me, what's straight up? Okay. Obviously the big controversy is that the gimmick used to be. We just looked this up. The gimmick used to be that you didn't get assigned seats and that you got two free check backs.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And then the rug was pulled out from under the feet of the Southwest Airline customer base, and suddenly those two things are not true anymore. So I guess what's straight about it is the false promise. It's sort of like how Uber trained us to think cars are supposed to be $2, and then suddenly one day you wake up and that there are $45.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, yeah.

[George Severis]

Like, that is. There's something that.

[Sam Taggart]

They got us bad.

[George Severis]

Yeah. There's something that gives private equity logics about the entire endeavor. We're like, so you lied to us.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, but even beyond that, they also. Maybe they still are, but they're famous for, like, being playful on the speaker. Like, when they do little, they'll do, like, little bits. They'll do their Type five. And I don't know if they're still doing that, but their whole thing used to be like, yeah, we're not really like other planes.

[George Severis]

Right.

[Sam Taggart]

And now it's like we're talking about the vegetarians and the hippies when they're in their 20s now. Southwest Airlines. Like, actually, I'm not vegetarian anymore. Actually I'm not a hippie anymore completely. Now I'm just a pretty much average airline. But I love my past.

[George Severis]

Well, it's an indie artist that has now sold out. It's like a 24 wanting to produce big budget films.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

But it's actually. Is it work? Is it getting. It's just betraying its client base.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. But I think it's also just like it doesn't need to be all that anymore.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Everyone's just. Everything's like just falling apart. But what I'm wondering is like before

[George Severis]

it changed, right, before it changed, was it straight?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Like, is quirk, corporate quirk straight? Basically.

[George Severis]

Well, I mean, I think. What are you. How are you backing it up? So for example, to me, Ben and Jerry's corporate quirk is queer because there is this playful and by the way, we support Bernie. Right.

[Sam Taggart]

They're like, we're socialists and we love Jimmy Fallon. Yeah.

[George Severis]

That I sort of like or even like. So Market Basket, which is a supermarket chain in Boston, is like, I don't want to misspeak. But it's either either employee owned or very like very, very passionately pro union in some way. That makes it like a fan favorite among everyone. And it's both affordable and it also treats its workers well. And that's like, that's its corporate, like that kind of stuff I think works. And then when it gets straight is when it's like a full on lie. Like Urban Outfitters is straight.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Where it's like the quirk. It's like you are fully lying to me about everything.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. This is interesting. I think it is. The gay part is the performance of the flight attendants. That's fun. Letting them express themselves and be silly. I mean, I hope it's not gun to head. I hope they're like, I really wanted to do this performance my whole life.

[George Severis]

I have a feeling it's gun to head.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. And then. But what I think is really straight that they play off as quirk is the choosing your own seat thing. Like that is libertarian completely. And it just immediately makes everyone fucking crazy. It's like. Cause then you're like having couples take the window seat and the aisle seat, the middle seat's still there because they're daring someone to sit between the couple. And it just becomes this show of strength. And whoever can be the most evil,

[George Severis]

well, it's also the reason. So not. So choosing your own seat is a way to make the tickets cheaper I guess. Like, who is being catered to there? I guess, is my question, like, are people. Do people enjoy the Lord of the Flies esque process of choosing their own seat and then sort of like elbowing a grandmother on their way to get the aisle seat? Or is it that it is a necessary evil and, oh, thank God my tickets are $15. But, you know, obviously I do need to murder one grandmother.

[Sam Taggart]

I always thought it was the first one, honestly.

[George Severis]

Okay, you think people, like, enjoy the kind of musical chairs element?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it's like they're. They're sort of in the chaos is a ladder mindset.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I guess. But I'm just. That's. That to me, is because. Okay, the two free check bags. I get it. That's. That's an amazing. Perfect.

[Sam Taggart]

What a deal.

[George Severis]

But choosing your own seat, it's like, no one wants that.

[Sam Taggart]

It helps no one.

[George Severis]

Yeah. I think it's the egalitarian of it being you all pay the same price, but you get to. If you get there earlier, then you get the better seat. Okay. So we are being told it's like an egalitarian. Well, egalitarian would be then offering equal opportunity, but that's what libertarian is. So you basically the strongest. The strongest person, or metaphorically strongest, meaning, for example, someone that can get there ahead of time or someone that doesn't

[Sam Taggart]

need to peace or someone doesn't need

[George Severis]

to stand for two hours, actually take off of work. Let's say a working single mother can't take off of work to go get the aisle seat on the flight, so she has to be in the middle.

[Sam Taggart]

I think it's much more cruel than just picking your seat when you pay for the ticket.

[George Severis]

Yeah. I mean, and I don't even.

[Sam Taggart]

Not even, like, don't get me wrong, I wish every seat was the same price. Like, when the more. Obviously, we're getting into such weird territory with planes now where. Which I'm so glad we're finally breaking our silence on, which is that, like, the tiers have gotten postmodern. Where you're like, there are so many. And they just are. They keep going up, but the bottom is getting smaller almost and worse. But I'm like, can we just pay a flat rate and pick from one of the 200 seats and just call it a day? Maybe the middle seat's cheaper. Sure.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

But that's it. Enough.

[George Severis]

Here's something that I do find to be interesting. There is a geographic specificity to Southwest Airlines in that they are from the Southwest. Now, a lot of airlines don't have that. And in fact, they don't want to have that because they want to be for everybody. Like Delta. It's just like the Mississippi Delta. Delta is, of course, based on the Mississippi Delta, and that's how people like it or, like, think of. I'll say this. Forget Delta. Think about how general airline names are. American, United. United.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And then, you know, inherently, you're positioning yourself as niche by saying, we're Alaskan Airlines. We are Southwest Airlines, which I was.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm glad you brought up Alaskan, because I wanted to bring it up as someone that's. Talk about lying about who they are.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, whenever I take an Alaskan airline, it's from LA to San Francisco.

[George Severis]

Oh, I don't even trust it. I'm there. I'm. Yes. I'm literally like, I'm going to.

[Sam Taggart]

Honey, you're far from home.

[George Severis]

I'm going from Detroit to Fort Lauderdale. Why the hell are you literally. Why are you in this conversation? I'm trying to go from Detroit to Fort Lauderdale.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't trust you know where you're going.

[George Severis]

Go home to Sitka.

[Sam Taggart]

Juno calls babe.

[George Severis]

Anchorage. All love to Alaska.

[Sam Taggart]

Of course.

[George Severis]

We know so many Alaskan cities.

[Sam Taggart]

I was really impressed with us.

[George Severis]

I do think Juneau is such a fab name for a city. And I've always thought that I have

[Sam Taggart]

such a fantasy of Alaska. I want to go so bad.

[George Severis]

Alaska is one of those places that I have seen such strong associations with, number one, of course, being Sarah Palin, because I was at such a formative. I was in such a formative age when the Sarah Palin thing happened, and I was like, got it. So everyone from Alaska is kind of like that.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Remember when she said, what's the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom? Do you know the answer?

[Sam Taggart]

Lipstick.

[George Severis]

Lipstick.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Well, that was iconic.

[Sam Taggart]

No, that was good.

[George Severis]

We don't know how good we had it. Remember when Julianne Moore played her?

[Sam Taggart]

Remember when Tina Fey and her were on the same episode of snl? The world was never the same.

[George Severis]

It's crazy that we didn't. Or maybe there was backlash. And I'm too young to remember, but even watching it, I was like, fun.

[Sam Taggart]

No, we didn't know yet. The backlash to that type of thing is relatively recent.

[George Severis]

We didn't have the concept of platforming yet.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, we didn't have the concept of platforming, and we were sort of like, well, we're making fun of her, but

[George Severis]

it is crazy that. No, they fully had her on and then did a little dance.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, well, SNL still does that, and it's one of the more outdated things that they continue to do. All love with nothing but love.

[George Severis]

Right. And then my other associations with Alaska of force. Macy Rodman is from Alaska.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

And, oh, God, there's like some other public figures that are from Alaska that are, like, important in my lore, but it does matter.

[Sam Taggart]

My dad lived there growing up. What? Yeah, from. He was in, like, military, like, when he was growing up is what I mean.

[George Severis]

But that's.

[Sam Taggart]

Where did he live outside of Alaska, Texas and Virginia.

[George Severis]

Okay, that makes more sense.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that makes more sense. Of course.

[George Severis]

What else about Southwest Airlines? Done.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm down to do the calls now.

[George Severis]

Okay. Well, I just want to say I thought that was really fun and I really hope we made Harry proud. And I want to thank Harry for being a Cliff Girl patron. And I do want to apologize for recording this episode a full six weeks after I told him to send me topics. But sometimes that happens because we record in batches and it is what it is.

[Sam Taggart]

But luckily, Harry advocated for his needs and that should be a lesson to everyone out there to send that follow up email. Yeah, of course I won't be taking that advice. If you don't respond, I'll assume you hate my guts.

[George Severis]

And I just want to say Harry is part of a vibrant community. Over at patreon.com Radiolab we have two extra episodes a month for all patrons, not only for the ones that pay the highest rate. All you have to do is pay $5 a month and you get two extra episodes. You get access to the discord. You get fun little. We're in the Discord and we're talking to people. We're talking back. I recently actually got into a fight with one of our patrons because really? Yes. He said Jordan Firstman was my least favorite guest you've ever had. And I had to say, we've never had him on. I had to say, fact check, he's never been on. Never been on. And actually I want to go one step further. And I like Jordan. I want to go one step further. I've never met him. Oh, in person. We are online friends and I, you know, often I will, you know, we have. While engaged with his content, he will say, hey, like, you know, sort of an emoji here and there. I've never met him.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So it was a shock to me to learn that he was the worst guest we've ever had.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I love that. And I love that you responded. And I'm still waiting for that person to respond.

[George Severis]

I was like, I hope they don't think I'm mad at them, because I'm not. I just want to know.

[Sam Taggart]

You had the heart. You put a heart in my heart.

[George Severis]

I put a heart. Well, actually, I want to address something. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. And actually someone has. People have done this to us in a variety of environments. People have done this to me. People do this to me over text. The passive aggressive LOL as punctuation, saying something clearly aggressive and then ending with lol.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

Enough.

[Sam Taggart]

It's bad.

[George Severis]

Either have the balls to be aggressive to me or be kind to me. But like, saying something and then undercutting it with an ironic sarcastic LOL at the end.

[Sam Taggart]

It's too much.

[George Severis]

No.

[Sam Taggart]

It's also like, we're simply too old.

[George Severis]

Enough.

[Sam Taggart]

Enough. So just to make sure no one feels left out, since we did just pay a lot of attention to one person named Harry, we are going to play a couple calls.

[George Severis]

We're going to play a couple calls just for fun.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Because we have. I was saying this to Sam. I haven't looked into how to stop this from happening, but every time we get a call, I do get one buzz on my phone. It goes straight to voicemail. It doesn't, like, ring.

[Sam Taggart]

I was worried it was ringing.

[George Severis]

No, no, no. I get a little buzz. But I've actually now started enjoying it because I'm like, oh, someone's thinking of me. I can't wait to look at it later.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that's nice.

[George Severis]

All right, so let me pull up some of these calls.

[Sam Taggart]

Hi, Sam and George.

[George Severis]

I was. Well, at one point I was listening to Survivors podcast and I know Sam maybe dabbles and Survivor, watching Survivor, enjoying it. And obviously you guys have the queen parva d on the show. But at one point, Jeff said, before you come on, you need to ask, like, the closest people around you. I. And I can't remember how it was worded, and I was not gonna go and try and find this because it was pretty insignificant. I don't know how I would find it without actually devoting time to doing so, but he basically said, you need to ask the person you're closest to or people around you what quality would keep you from winning and that you need to hash that out. And I wondered what you guys thought about that for each other specifically, because it's not necessarily like, has to be weakness of someone. It just is, like, what could clearly be something that would create Problems for you, whether it be, like, in a strategy sense or social game or, like, you know, a quality you have too good of.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know.

[George Severis]

I was just interested in hearing what you guys thought. Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay.

[George Severis]

You were really excited to do this one, so I would love to know what you think. My weaknesses.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. I think you wouldn't know when you're being lied to.

[George Severis]

I think you're right. I think it's easy to flatter me. I think that I. Despite my cynical exterior, I actually do kind of have an open mind when it comes to people. You're trusting, I'm trusting, and I really. Even things. Like in Hollywood, for example, obviously the biggest stereotype is that everyone lies to your face and says, we love your voice or whatever. Even though I know that intellectually, I believe it every time I'm like, wow, I found another person who loves my voice. And I think that's absolutely. I think you're absolutely right. And I think I have a sort of. I wouldn't even call it conflict avoidance, because I don't think it's that. But I kind of match someone's energy. Like, if they're being fake to me, I'll just be like, okay, cool.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Okay. For you.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

It's something that you actually just described to me earlier at Tender Greens Shout out, which is you were describing a work environment where, like, people around you were getting kind of chaotic, and then you shut down.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

I think if one person is high energy, you can join in. But I think if two people have stepped up and are being chaotic, I take a backseat. You take a backseat?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And I think that way, that's what it is. It's like, if you miss your initial opportunity to become a leader, then you are. You have put yourself in the back seat, and it's hard to then ascend to the front seat.

[Sam Taggart]

I think that makes complete sense.

[George Severis]

So I think it's like, there's a challenge, that there's a plan that needs to happen. Two people are like, okay, so let's do this. And then the other person responds, suddenly you're no longer part of the discussion. You are like, a silent backseat.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I also think I'd get caught in shit talking real bad. And I think I shut down when I got caught shit talking.

[George Severis]

Oh, you think you would shit talk and then you would be caught and then you wouldn't know how to.

[Sam Taggart]

I wouldn't know how to, like, backpedal?

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Because my shit talking depends on no one finding out.

[George Severis]

Well, most shit talking does Most does,

[Sam Taggart]

but some people can back it up even when it's found out.

[George Severis]

Well, especially on reality television.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

It's like, well, yeah, that's the thing. You would talk shit as though you are someone who had a grand plan.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

With the confidence of a supervillain. And then you would get caught and you'd be like, oh.

[Sam Taggart]

It also would be like, it never really would be a grand plan. It would just be that I'm like, you're annoying. Like, this person's annoying. Hey, everyone, it's Kal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth. I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo. Is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that deeply, emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh, my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to Irsay the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[George Severis]

Awkward time to ask this, but. Hey, did you download the trail map?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, no, I don't need to.

[George Severis]

I. I don't understand. You're trusting your signal out here?

[Sam Taggart]

I'm trusting T Mobile. They have the best network.

[George Severis]

And if we end up in bumtots

[Sam Taggart]

nowhere, well, we've got T Satellite for backup.

[George Severis]

Whoa.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't trust my carrier that much. We'll just use your phone as a flashlight. With America's best network and T Satellite,

[George Severis]

we're keeping you connected in places you never thought possible. And if you switch today, you get

[Sam Taggart]

free phones for zero down and only 25 bucks a month per line for four lines. Find out more@t mobile.com or visit your local store.

[George Severis]

Best mobile network Based on analysis by Ooglob speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 with 24 monthly bill credits and 4 eligible port ins on essentials for well qualified customers with autopay plus taxes, fees and $35 connection charge per line. Press credits and imbalance to if you pay off earlier, cancel contact US Finance Agreement example $299.99 Moto Edge 5G required T satellite available with compatible device in most outdoor areas in the US where you can see the sky. Included with experience beyond under $10 a month. Audible News Monthly cancel anytime.

[Sam Taggart]

Visit t mobile.com Guess who's back in the House? The Old Gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with Veeve Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Jesse have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane, navigating life, love, loss and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into a song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kind of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All Sass, zero filter and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The best skaters, BMX riders and moto athletes in the world don't compete in leagues until now. The X Games League Championship is live From New Orleans, July 24 through 26. Three days of elite action sports, plus performances from metro Boomin, Jid Subtronics and bunt watch on ABC, ESPN and ESPN2

[George Severis]

stream on the ESPN app, Roku Kick,

[Sam Taggart]

Amazon and X Games YouTube. The inaugural champion gets crowned this July.

[George Severis]

Sorry, we just got a call literally as we were recording.

[Sam Taggart]

This is so scary. What if it's perfect?

[George Severis]

Let's do it. Maybe it's like an amazing perfect call. Hi gay guys. Hope this isn't a bummer, but I've been feeling a little low lately and kind of not like myself. So my question is, what is something simple that you can do to just feel a little more gay guy instantly? And maybe aside from like consuming media, just like, what's something accessible that I could do? Maybe tomorrow. Yeah, that's all. I just need to feel a little more gay guy. So love ya. Thank you so much.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, it's called meth. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Have you considered Chemsex?

[Sam Taggart]

Sorry you're feeling low.

[George Severis]

Sorry you're feeling low, but I would recommend Chemsex sex,

[Sam Taggart]

you know, 36 hours, just lose a couple things.

[George Severis]

Go on a bender.

[Sam Taggart]

Change your life forever.

[George Severis]

Go on a bender.

[Sam Taggart]

Then you'll know what suffering is. No.

[George Severis]

Okay, so he doesn't want to consume media, obviously.

[Sam Taggart]

Media. That's such a big blanket term. It's a little bit tough.

[George Severis]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

But I would the most obvious to me answer, which is real sex. No.

[George Severis]

Anal.

[Sam Taggart]

No.

[George Severis]

Go to a gay.

[Sam Taggart]

Go for a walk with headphones in. Oh, get strutting. I think go for. You're not running, you're not exercising. Yeah, but you're going for, like, a walk where your headphones are in and you're hearing fun music and you're like, even wallowing. It can be sad music, but you're

[George Severis]

like, in your Wallow Strut.

[Sam Taggart]

Wallow Strut is like. There's nothing like it.

[George Severis]

Sorry. But I just want to say, this could be a book. Do you know I told you how I saw the power pose woman speak at the TED conference?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

So to me, a wallow strut has the branding potential to be, like, a really big idea, which is when. It's basically the same thing as the power pose, which is like, when you're feeling down on yourself, make yourself Runway walk. Like, put on three, six, five, potty, go get on the avenue and strut, strut. And just do that. And I think at first it's gonna feel forced, and then it's like how when you smile, you trick your brain into being happy. If you just power strut, you will eventually feel better.

[Sam Taggart]

It'll work. It always works. Even listening to when I'm genuinely bummed out, I'll listen to Titus Andronicus. Specifically, the song I think is Titus Andronicus, which is like. The chorus is like, you will always be a loser. And I'm like, I needed this. I needed to feel like you suck for a moment, and then I can rebuild.

[George Severis]

Well, I kind of think that this is Robin's entire project. Robin's project is Wallow Strutting. Yes, it is dance music. It's euphoric dance music where the lyrics are, I want to fucking kill myself. And I actually think the power of music and sound is that even if what you're saying is I want to kill myself, the bass is so kind of hypnotic and propulsive that it gets you in a better mood.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

Because my initial, I was, of course, going to say, what's a gay thing you could do? Go to a gay bar. But I actually. I'm very aware of the fact that, like, that could make you feel more isolated.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, for sure.

[George Severis]

Going to a bar by yourself, as much as I occasionally like doing it, or I like going to the movies by myself, if you're not in the right head space, that's. That can make you feel even more lonely.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

But I think walking down the street,

[Sam Taggart]

you need to see people.

[George Severis]

Yes, you need to see people. And if you're walking down the street, it's not stigmatized to be alone in the way that it may be stigmatized to be alone at a bar or alone in a movie theater or whatever. It shouldn't be, to be clear. But in your head, if you're already feeling down on yourself, you don't want to be alone at a restaurant. But I think being alone on the street, you are one. You are part of the walking community.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. And I want to say on record, I did get those wrong lyrics to the song, but just know that the point remains, and I will not be singing anymore on this podcast.

[George Severis]

I've been really into Metric recently, the band, which I know we talked about it, and you don't, and you're not a fan, but, you know they also will do this, like, fun song. Like, there's a song called Gold Guns, Girls, and the lyrics are, all the gold and the guns in the world couldn't get you off. Need I say more? And it's like, okay, those lyrics are sad, but you're kind of like, let's fucking go.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I'm trying to think of other.

[George Severis]

I know. Other things. I think, by the way, the fact that this call came in as we were already recording is very meaningful, and I think we were meant to answer this call on air, and I feel very connected to this caller, and so I want to really give them something good to chew on.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

I mean, I do think, frankly, cooking or baking something is a way to access your gay guy a little bit. If that's something that's in your arsenal.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it's not in my arsenal.

[George Severis]

It's not in your arsenal. Fine.

[Sam Taggart]

But I respect it.

[George Severis]

But if it's something that's in your arsenal, how fun to make a carrot cake.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

What else? I like the limitation of no media. Like, I like that we're thinking of. Cause I could, of course, be like, watch Miss Congeniality.

[Sam Taggart]

Spa day.

[George Severis]

Spa day.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm trying to think of spaces where you are not required to speak, but you do see other people and you do feel communal, alone. I think that is really nice.

[George Severis]

Do you do a spa day? It's Something I always imagine I will do at some point. I've never done it.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. But for me, of course, sometimes it's.

[George Severis]

It involves sex.

[Sam Taggart]

Sometimes.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

But not always.

[George Severis]

Not always.

[Sam Taggart]

But I don't know what town or city you are living in, so I can't recommend which ones to go to.

[George Severis]

I'm trying to think of an obvious way to feel better.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't think. What I wish I could say is go buy something, but I actually think that's really wrong.

[George Severis]

No. And actually, I have to say, like, I'm at a place where purchasing things simply does not improve my mood in any way.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. It actually makes me feel worse.

[George Severis]

I will say something as simple as, like, taking a bath or showering. Like, if you're in a wallowing mood and you're like, sure, sure, I woke up. I haven't left the house all day. I'm still in my pajamas. I think changing, being like, I'm gonna pamper myself, even in a small way. Even in a way of like, I'm taking a bath and then I'm putting on a face mask. That literally does help.

[Sam Taggart]

That does help.

[George Severis]

But I'm telling you, wallow, strut, bake a carrot cake. I don't even know why I'm going in a carrot cake direction. Go full on.

[Sam Taggart]

I kind of like the carrot cake.

[George Severis]

Chocolate cake. Carrot cake.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Because chocolate cake is. There's something almost too indulgent about chocolate cake where you're like. You're like, well, I'm not gonna kill myself.

[George Severis]

Right, Exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, I'm not putting myself down after this.

[George Severis]

Chocolate cake is like, you're Bridget Jones and you're having ice cream from a giant tub, which only makes you more depressed. It's not gonna make you feel any better.

[Sam Taggart]

Carrot cake is like, oh, yeah, I'm different.

[George Severis]

Carrot cake is like Kristen Wiig making that one single cupcake and bridesmaids.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Now, that, of course, did not make her any happier in that scene, but I think she reminded herself that she was able to bake it. Sure.

[Sam Taggart]

Let's do next call.

[George Severis]

Okay. There's power in community. I just want to say, call a friend.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Hi. I have a question. What do you think happened to the soft boy? To me, this was kind of an archetype that was identified by millennials back in, like, 2015 or 2016. The type of sensitive, sort of, but, like, manipulative, maybe hipster or alternative straight guy. And it seems to have been rebranded or rediscovered by Gen Z and coined as the performative male. Do you think There's a difference, or do you think that the soft boy is kind of relegated to millennials and performative males are different and a new kind of Gen Z style of straight male.

[Sam Taggart]

I remember the right lyrics. What are they? They repeat, your life is over.

[George Severis]

Okay, well, maybe don't listen to that one.

[Sam Taggart]

No, but it helps. You have to feel it, and then you can build yourself back up. It's like the beginning. Right. It's the morning.

[George Severis]

The morning with a U or morning with a U. Okay. Oh, that's the morning. And then you're going through those stages of grief, and then you're out of it.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Okay, so what happened to the soft boy? Soft boy?

[Sam Taggart]

I think what's interesting is I do think these are the same concept, but, like, the sort of the person doing the action has changed. Before, it was like, the soft boy is like, the world is make. Like, he is soft despite the world. And now the performative male, it's like, he is soft as a vil. As a way to attack others. Yes.

[George Severis]

Which I think is, in fact, they're not. This. Like, that's what is different about them is like, one is.

[Sam Taggart]

One is inward, one is outward.

[George Severis]

Yes. Like, one is coming. The softness coming from within. And the other one is like, this is literally a predator. They're using softness as a. They're weaponizing softness.

[Sam Taggart]

But the thing with the performative male is that I'm like. Like, which, again, everyone jump off a cliff, literally. And not into a body of water.

[George Severis]

No. Onto a sidewalk concrete.

[Sam Taggart]

But, like, is it. Is this. Is it real, like, to me, or

[George Severis]

are they just genuinely soft? And we're like. We have. We're so obsessed with villainizing men that we're taking the only good men and being like, you trying to trick me by reading Evil.

[Sam Taggart]

Evil. And it's like, well, if they read the book.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, if they're actually reading the book, that's good.

[George Severis]

I just don't believe. I think it's. I just can't. I don't. Like, it's. It's social media bullshit. I can't. It's like, it's all. It's a psyop. There's no such thing. There are definitely evil men, and there are definitely good men. But, like, this idea of performative male, I think you witness one a year, and you're like, wow, this is who all the tweets are about. And it's like, well, that's not enough for it to be a phenomenon.

[Sam Taggart]

It also has, like, it's literally right Wing talking points winning. Yes, exactly. Like where it's like, well, if your man is liberal, that's just to manipulate.

[George Severis]

Exactly. Like, just have some faith that some men are good. I don't, I don't like it at all. I don't. The idea that, like, it is inherently suspicious if you are visibly trying to better yourself. I actually witnessed this recently because someone, a friend of mine was saying that this guy that we know from college who's a very, very genuinely nice and sweet guy, she goes, yeah, he's taking a year out of his life and dedicating it to supporting the women and femmes in his life. These were the exact words. And my initial of course thought was one of suspicion. Then she kept going. And that is quite literally what he's doing. And it is. He is. So she, for example, my friend who was telling me this needed some help with a professional thing and he helped her for free. He put in hours and was like, I'll come over and help you with this every day for a week.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm still suspicious.

[George Severis]

I'm telling you, I'm the number one person who would be suspicious of something like this.

[Sam Taggart]

George, we just found out. You're too trusting.

[George Severis]

No, no, no. I'm telling you, this person is supporting the women and femmes in his life. And the fact that we can't accept that that's something someone would do is, Is because of years of indoctrination.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I think what's weird is you can do that without taking a year out of your life. You can just be like, oh, I'm going to be more open to helping people.

[George Severis]

Well, I don't know if that was her. I don't know if that was her way of branding it or if it was his.

[Sam Taggart]

Either way, if that is in the conversation at all, you got to stomp that.

[George Severis]

Well, I guess. Okay, so what you're saying is that that's the performative element.

[Sam Taggart]

That's crazy. Okay, because then it. Okay, well then once this year is over, I'm not helping women in femmes anymore. How about you just live a normal life and try to be a little bit better?

[George Severis]

Okay, I understand where you're coming from. I understand where you're coming from. The truth, I think, is somewhere in the middle. I accept that I'm being too. What's the word?

[Sam Taggart]

Naive.

[George Severis]

Something. I don't know. I mean, I do think this specific person, actually his heart is in the

[Sam Taggart]

right place, but I obviously can't know the details. But that's insane to me.

[George Severis]

The Point is, obviously some people are dishonest and obviously some people are not to be trusted.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

But let's not start from a place of paranoia.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure, sure.

[George Severis]

Especially when the thing. Obviously some people, when the thing you're seeing is literally just someone reading a book on the subway, it's like, then chill out. It's like, you're the crazy one. If you start being violent. If you're literally like, like, oh, so you're reading that. Why? Because you want me to think you're good? It's like, relax.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, well, it's very. This is interesting too, because I. People have a general. No more. No, Marnie. But people hate someone putting themselves out there no matter what. Yeah. Like if someone is. And sometimes you're right to be annoyed and sometimes you're not right to be annoyed. Like when someone's reading at a bar.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

At like 8pm, right. It's a little like, do you have to read at a bar?

[George Severis]

Oh, interesting.

[Sam Taggart]

But at the same time, it's also like, just let them read. They're allowed to read at the bar.

[George Severis]

Here's the thing with all of this. For me, I feel like we've gotten away from the softboy question, which I do want to return to. But my thing with this whole performative reading thing is like the alternative. No one's perfect. The alternative to reading at a bar is. Is so much worse. You want this guy to what, be either home playing video games or online being radicalized or ghosting women?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, no.

[George Severis]

And I do think he's making himself so scarce. He's literally like, I'm just making myself as small as possible. And everyone's like, get him.

[Sam Taggart]

But sometimes small is big. Sometimes when you're being so small, like if you're whispering and everyone has to be quiet to hear you, it's like, well, how about you talk normal.

[George Severis]

True.

[Sam Taggart]

And let me hear you.

[George Severis]

Obviously, the whole point, and I'm not an idiot, I understand the whole point of this whole suspicion is that these men, let's say, are putting out this soft image. And then you get to the bottom of it. You're going on a date with them, you're trying to build a relationship, and suddenly they don't have what it takes to give you what you want. Like, they're not able to commit. They are completely wishy washy.

[Sam Taggart]

They're like emotionally out of touch.

[George Severis]

Emotion out of touch, Emotion available, unemployed, you know, sort of all talk and can't actually, like, support you when you need their support. Then you have a kid they're sort of like, well, I have to go cycling because it's button balls time for dad Avenue calls. So obviously, like, I get that. I'm not. I'm not being sort of pro,

[Sam Taggart]

you

[George Severis]

know, men's rights activism here.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I actually want to go through every single thing you just listed almost. And I'm not going to, but I'm like, that's wrong. That's right, that's wrong. That's right, that's wrong. That's right.

[George Severis]

Because I'm like, not everyone's an archetype. People have different flaws.

[Sam Taggart]

Men should be allowed to be unemployed. I think women should be allowed to be unemployed, too. But when someone's like, that man's bad. He doesn't have a job. I'm like, so you think having a job.

[George Severis]

But some men haven't had a job in years.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, that's true. But maybe they're just up and coming comedians.

[George Severis]

Well, at some point, are you up and are you coming? But something I want to say about this question is what we are missing with the whole performative male thing is to me, something about the term soft boy or even metrosexual, which I know is different, is that they are kind of ambivalent terms. Like, they can be seen as. They contain the positive and the negative. And I think that's where. That's the definition of nuance, of course. And I think the thing with performative male is that it starts from a point of like, get him.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Soft boy, of course, is not a compliment. Like, it's obviously, it is slightly insulting to call someone a soft boy. And I think it contains within it the contradictions of a soft. It's like, on the one hand, it's good that this is someone who is soft and in touch with their feelings. On the other hand, it's bad because maybe they can't step up and, you know, be quote, unquote masculine when the time for it comes. Similarly, with a metrosexual, it's like, what's good about a metrosexual is that they are. They pay attention to their appearance and they, you know, take care of themselves. What's bad about a metrosexual is that they're fucking gay.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure, sure, sure. Totally.

[George Severis]

You know what I mean?

[Sam Taggart]

Of course.

[George Severis]

So I guess my. The point being, I think we need a new term for essentially what the contemporary version of this is, which is, let's face it, the menswear guy. The contemporary version of this kind of guy is someone who overspends on Japanese Fashion.

[Sam Taggart]

But the menswear guy is not masculine. It's like, it's been.

[George Severis]

It's not masculine to be trolling ebay for grails.

[Sam Taggart]

It absolutely is. I think these men have gone, so you're basically.

[George Severis]

You're literally like antiquing with your husband and your poodle in so wrong.

[Sam Taggart]

Metrosexual used to be like, metrosexual was vulnerable because you were like wearing head to toe express men rare. Like, that was like, you were braver than a guy who just sucks dick.

[George Severis]

Okay, all right, so we. Okay, so. But what is the. So you're saying. So I'm saying it's like, Japanese menswear guy is not the same person.

[Sam Taggart]

There's no vulnerability.

[George Severis]

Who is reading feminist theory on the bus?

[Sam Taggart]

I'm just saying metrosexual. It's not a one to one with ability.

[George Severis]

Yeah, Yeah. I guess my challenge to people is coming up with archetypes of men that have space for nuance.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

And sometimes I have to say, because I know I'm being very pro men and I don't mean to be. Sometimes that actually can be even more biting. Like, there's something about. It's a deeper read when you're like, this guy is so soft that he can't. Whatever. Like, I think performative male is such a fake critique that it almost doesn't land for me.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah. We're gonna get to the bottom of this in the next two years. Was that.

[George Severis]

Did I flop?

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's just. It's a black hole of a conversation.

[George Severis]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

Because it's like so much of it is disingenuous. So much of it is.

[George Severis]

Well, that's the thing.

[Sam Taggart]

And maybe that is. It is like, it's just kind of jokey. Like, maybe it's not meant to be taken seriously and it's just jokey. But we can't. We just have to, you know, treat everything as if it's true.

[George Severis]

And I understand that people that use the word performative male use it with a sense of humor. It's like, I'm of course, acting as though they are so stupid that they don't get. But I think people are using it with a sense of humor.

[Sam Taggart]

But it is a weird takeaway. Yeah. Don't read that book. You should be dumber one time.

[George Severis]

I wish I could remember who this was. It was a RuPaul. It was a drag queen. It was a drag race drag queen that posted literally, like, what is it with people reading on the train? You're being so performative Just look at your phone. And it legitimately was not a joke. And I was like, this is so funny to interpret it like that.

[Sam Taggart]

Nothing but love to all contestants of RuPaul's Drag Race. But some of the people on that show end up being the dumbest people I've ever seen or heard of in my whole life.

[George Severis]

That's the magic of it.

[Sam Taggart]

It's like really, really insane. Oh, guess what? Violet Chachki goes to my gym. Shout out. Shout out.

[George Severis]

Shout out to Violet Chachki. I like Violet Chachki.

[Sam Taggart]

Me too.

[George Severis]

She's a real talent.

[Sam Taggart]

We made eye contact and I was

[George Severis]

like, oh, my God. I thought you were gonna say we made out. I was like, oh, okay.

[Sam Taggart]

No, we made eye contact in a way where I was like, maybe she

[George Severis]

has seen one of our reels. You know, I would not be surprised if our reels were being served to ol Viola Chachki.

[Sam Taggart]

Me either.

[George Severis]

Okay, we have one more call. We also can stop. I mean, it's three.

[Sam Taggart]

Oof.

[George Severis]

And I'm also hot as hell.

[Sam Taggart]

I gotta say. What is the.

[George Severis]

What's the next gayest superhero one? We could just save it for the next calling.

[Sam Taggart]

Save for the next Calling show.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, folks, well, that was the longest episode ever. You're welcome.

[George Severis]

I have no idea how long we've been recording, but I assume approximately five and a half hours. Oh, not far off. Okay, well, someone was counting.

[Sam Taggart]

Subscribe to Patreon and. And talk to you soon.

[George Severis]

Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

Bye.

[George Severis]

Podcast ends now.

[Sam Taggart]

Stradiolab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio podcasts created

[George Severis]

and hosted by Sam Taggart and George

[Sam Taggart]

Severis Executive produced by Becca Ramos Produced

[George Severis]

by Casey Donahue Edited and mixed by Lawrence Stumpf Social video done by Hot Dog Sandwich.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm U.S. transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. The sound of a seatbelt. It's one of the most important sounds in our car.

[George Severis]

It means everyone is ready and everyone is safe.

[Sam Taggart]

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[George Severis]

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[George Severis]

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[George Severis]

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[George Severis]

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