Straightio Rewind: "Homoeroticism" w/ Sabrina Wu (1/17/23)

Summary

---

Straightio Rewind: "Homoeroticism" w/ Sabrina Wu

Podcast: StraightioLab
Hosts: George Civeris & Sam Taggart
Guest: Sabrina Wu
Date: March 20, 2026 (original episode: Jan 17, 2023)

---

Episode Overview

This special "Straightio Rewind" episode of StraightioLab dives into the concept of homoeroticism as a pillar of straight culture. Hosts George and Sam are joined by comedian and writer Sabrina Wu to unpack the delightfully fraught distinctions between genuine queerness, performative homoeroticism, and the ways straight culture both appropriates and weaponizes these things for itself. The conversation bounces between absurdist comic bits, cultural critique, personal anecdotes, and a running interrogation of representation, labels, and the real social costs of “slaying.”

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Slaying as Social Currency (06:12 - 14:37)

• Hosts muse on “slaying”—being iconic and maintaining relevance—and whether past slaying can compensate for current flops.
  • George: “How much does someone have to slay in order to slay for life?” (07:04)
  • Referenced Gwen Stefani and Kim Gordon as cultural case studies.
• Sabrina added that slaying creates pressure—eventually the community anxiously awaits the other “slay shoe” to drop.

2. Forbidden Questions & Representation Minefields (20:45 - 26:00)

• Bit on “forbidden questions”: The group riffs about podcast boundaries and interview taboos.
  • Sabrina: “If you ask me what my thoughts are on representation, I actually glitch out and spiral…” (22:24)
• Discussion on why representation questions are often traps: They force one to seem either self-important or disingenuous.
  • George: “The only possible way to answer feels self-important and moralistic.” (23:47)
  • Consensus: Save the nuanced takes for the book, not the live podcast.

3. Straight Shooters Lightning Round (29:49 - 34:43)

• Sabrina is subjected to absurd “straight culture” binary questions.
  • Sample: “Gentleman’s Quarterly or Lady Marmalade?” (30:05)
  • Panel invented an arbitrary “doves” rating system for performance (Sabrina’s inquisitive push for a perfect score gets her extra points).
  • Sabrina: “This is actually a really important lesson to all the children who are listening…” (34:21)

4. Leadership, Tastemaker Sheep & Personality Taxonomies (36:00 - 48:40)

• Debate on ‘leadership’ as a straight value, and society’s obsession with being “the leader.”

  • Sabrina: “Everyone should be a leader...I just fail everyone around me every time I do it.” (36:29)

• The Taste-Maker Sheep schema: From leadership camps to viral videos, they build a taxonomy: Leader—Tastemaker (First Follower/Sheep)—Curator.

  • George: “To be the tastemaker sheep is such a powerful position in culture.” (39:29)
  • The group jokes this could be a kids’ book and a new Myers-Briggs.

• Sheila Heti’s “bird/fish/bear” framework introduced:

  • Bird: Cultural critics (removed, big-picture).
  • Fish: Egalitarian, social-justice minded.
  • Bear: Small-scale, intimate nurturers.
  • Hosts & Sabrina muse on which they are; reluctance to self-select due to “self-aggrandizing” undertones.

5. Main Topic: Homoeroticism Unpacked (48:43 - 60:21)

• Sabrina introduces “homoeroticism” as a straight topic.
  • “If it were homosexual, that would be gay. But alas, it’s homoerotic. What we’re saying is, it’s so close, but it’s actually not.” (49:39, Sabrina)
• Hosts define ‘homoeroticism’:
  • The aesthetic/erotic hint of queerness, usually performed without actual “homosexual” consummation.
  • George: “It is the hint of everything but anal…” (52:55)
• Anime & misogyny: Is some anime’s “homoerotic” presentation the result of gay or straight misogyny?
  • Delineation between objects of iconography vs objects of actual desire.
• Queerbaiting discussion:
  • Difficulty defining when performative queerness moves from playful camp to cynical exploitation.
  • George: “That’s sort of Tumblr bullshit...none of this is morally important, it’s just annoying.” (54:50)
  • They compare Charlie Puth’s playful online thirst-trapping with the branded “gender-neutral” signals of Harry Styles.
  • Sabrina: “The danger of queerbaiting is...it’s very hard to tell if somebody is queerbaiting or just trying to have a baby as a 24-year-old.” (57:46)

6. Inventions & Lesbian Hat Discourse (64:12 - 69:40)

• If Sabrina could launch a queer-targeted product:
  • Sabrina: “I would get lesbians like a hat that cannot go backwards.” (64:23)
  • The panel brainstorms the magnetic —and slightly dystopian—enforcement for forward-facing hats.
  • The “backward hat lesbian” becomes a symbol loaded with both affection and gentle ribbing.

7. Straight Homoeroticism Examples (72:22 - 74:29)

• Straight men’s engagement with “homoerotic” objects:
  • Dorm posters of two women kissing (“the beer ad twins,” Pulp Fiction era).
  • George: “Men fetishizing lesbianism is the ultimate sort of...homoeroticism as straight.” (74:00)
  • Abercrombie catalog guys and soccer/lacrosse team celebrations as the male equivalent.

8. Final Thoughts & Shout-Outs (77:42 - end)

• Quick, reflective wrap-up on how they barely scratched the homoerotic surface.
• Shoutouts segment: Each shares a bit of personal gratitude:
  • Sam: To bike-riding in NYC, “I think that’s why my ass looks the way it does...” (79:46)
  • George: To his breakfast of toast/cottage cheese/pistachios (“Combine this baby with a fresh pot of joe, and you are cooking!” (80:35))
  • Sabrina’s heartfelt shoutout: To Thomas, an old college director and an OG fan who specifically requested a shoutout if she ever made it on StraightioLab. (82:46)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“How much does someone have to slay in order to slay for life?”
— George, 07:04

“If you ask me what my thoughts are on representation, I actually glitch out and spiral.”
— Sabrina, 22:24

“This is a really important lesson to all the children who are listening to podcasts…”
— Sabrina, 34:21

“It is the hint of everything but anal; it is hinting at homosexuality, hinting at same sex attraction.”
— George, 52:55

“Men fetishizing lesbianism is the ultimate...homoeroticism as straight.”
— George, 74:00

“The tastemaker sheep is queer-coded!”
— George, 38:41

“I would get lesbians a hat that cannot go backwards.”
— Sabrina, 64:23

---

Timestamps of Important Segments

• Slaying & Fame Arc: 06:12 – 14:37
• Forbidden Questions: 20:45 – 26:00
• Straight Shooters Segment: 29:49 – 34:43
• Leadership & Sheep Taxonomy: 36:00 – 48:40
• Main Topic – Homoeroticism: 48:43 – 60:21
• Queerbaiting and Branding: 54:34 – 60:21
• Lesbian Hat Bit: 64:12 – 69:40
• Straight Homoeroticism Examples: 72:22 – 74:29
• Final Thoughts & Shoutouts: 77:42 – end

---

Tone & Style

• Wildly playful, tangent-prone, self-aware, and lovingly irreverent.
• Blurring high-concept cultural critique with bits that collapse into comedic absurdity.
• The trio navigates queer theory, internet culture, and personal trauma with equal parts sincerity and sardonicism.

---

Summary for New Listeners

If you’re new to StraightioLab or this episode, expect a rollercoaster ride: you’ll get both elite-level queer culture critique and bawdy, surreal improvisational bits. “Homoeroticism” is dissected not just as a sexual or subcultural phenomenon, but as a proxy for straight society’s uneasy fascination with queerness, its inability to stop appropriating what it can’t wholly bear to embrace.

You’ll leave with new frameworks (tastemaker sheep!), a shrewd understanding of “representation” traps, and a reminder that every podcast is, at heart, a group of anxious comedians working through their trauma—in the fun way.

---

Transcript

[Ryan Seacrest]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human no one knows what the future holds, but you deserve a weather app that can help. Weatherbug is easy to use and provides forecasts for your every need from storm warnings to pollen levels right at your fingertips. Get the fastest local Alerts and comprehensive 10 day forecasts wherever you are. Its hyperlocal real time customizable alerts make sure the weather never takes you by surprise so you can plan every day with confidence. Download the free Weatherbug app from the App Store today and start getting accurate weather forecasts forecasts 247 hey, it's Ryan

Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for store wide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Lindor, Chips Ahoy, Gatorade, Host, Ziploc and Zoa. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.

[iFlag Announcer]

Flag Football is exploding and iflag is leading the way as the Guinness World Record Holder, iflag hosts premier flag football tournaments nationwide for boys, girls, high school girls and adults. From first time players to elite competitors, iflag delivers top level competition, unforgettable experiences and a community built around the game. Ready to be part of it? Join the movement, find your tournament and learn [e-mail] that's iflag.org Ryan Reynolds here

[George Severis]

from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Ryan Seacrest]

of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro three months only, then full price

[Solaray Magnesium Advertiser]

plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Ryan Seacrest]

See full [e-mail] do you want to

[George Severis]

find a stress free way to buy your next car? Start at CarMax and shop your way. And if you want to browse with confidence, get pre qualified online with no impact on your credit score and shop cars within your budget. From luxury cars to family rides, CarMax has options for almost every price range, including more than 25,000 cars priced under $25,000. So hey, want to get started? Just head to CarMax.com for details and get pre qualified today. Want to drive Carmax?

[Sam Taggart]

Hooty Hoo. Glamour Girls. You're listening to Studio Lab Rewind.

[George Severis]

Once a month we will be re releasing an old classic Stratolab episode to re familiarize new listeners with the lore that built the podcast. The government cannot shut down because we

[Sam Taggart]

recorded some of these long, long ago. The audio quality may be mixed, but trust the ideas are eternal and dangerous.

[George Severis]

So take out your notebook and open to page one because it's time to start taking notes about the things we've said.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Enjoy the past. Bye. Podcast starts now.

[Sabrina Wu]

Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Hello, esteemed listeners, and welcome to Stratiolab. We are so thrilled and honored that you are spending your, let's say, Wednesday at 3:00pm listening to us.

[George Severis]

Whether you're driving in your car to your next appointment or you're home naked from the bottom. Only bottom naked. Wearing a shirt, Winnie the Pooh style.

[Sam Taggart]

Recovering from your former appointment.

[George Severis]

Recovering from your former appointment. Walking around the house fully erect.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure.

[George Severis]

Going into the kitchen, making a grilled cheese. Ouch. You got some hot oil on your bare bones.

[Sam Taggart]

If that is you. And we know you want to turn us off, but we appreciate you sticking with us through the pain, through the tears, through the crying and the screaming.

[George Severis]

Just focus on our voice. Focus on our voice and not on the physical pain you feel from the scalding hot oil you accidentally got on your bone. On your bone. On your butt bone that you got while making a grilled cheese. And because you were fully erect, your penis sort of knocked over the pan, and then the hot oil went onto your bone.

[Sam Taggart]

The. Yeah. So if this hasn't happened to you, just so you're clear, what happened to one of your fellow listeners is their penis knocked the pan. The pan that was full of hot oil, making a grilled cheese. That pan hit the ground, causing the oil to splash up and hit their bone.

[George Severis]

And for that listener, I have one message, and it is that, you know, it works better if you put mayo on the bread.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my gosh. Not cooking tips. Well, if you can hear our voices. Yeah, we sound weird today.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And by weird, we mean better.

[Sam Taggart]

Better. More calm, more professional.

[George Severis]

And it's because we're back in Hell's

[Sam Taggart]

Kitchen, letting the spirit run through us. And, yeah, you know, whenever we're in a studio space talking about the podcast while we make the podcast, it does make us sort of act like we're pretending to do a podcast. Which is weird because most people, this is where they go to record a podcast. But for us, it always feels like, oh, today we're playing dress up, today we're playing podcaster.

[George Severis]

It's strange. Well, especially because we're in Hell's Kitchen, which is where all gay men work in marketing.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

You know, when we're doing it over zoom in our apartments wearing sort of a ripped band tee, you know, it's punk rock, it's diy. You know, we're sort of. It's like it's Courtney Love giving a middle finger to the camera.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it's so Courtney Love.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And whereas now we're sort of. It's more Kim Gordon, but like appearing, having a meeting about a brand partnership. Not Kim Gordon during rockstar era.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's Kim Gordon appearing on npr.

[George Severis]

Yeah, exactly. And it's like, yes, she's talking about her punk rock days and you know, and listen, we love Kim Gordon. You know, you know she's slaying. You know, she has slayed in the past, but in the moment when she is wearing fully, like a vintage blazer in a studio on npr, that's not the most she's slayed.

[Sam Taggart]

No. But also I'm not here to say when she slayed the most. I'm here to just say that she has slayed and not rank the moments top 10. I'm not Buzzfeed.

[George Severis]

I sort of want to know, like, how much does someone have to slay in order to slay for life?

[Sam Taggart]

How much does someone have to slay in order to slay for life?

[George Severis]

I'm thinking about this. This is gonna date when we're recording this, but, you know, today Gwen Stefani had a sort of embarrassing moment in the press. Have you seen this?

[Sam Taggart]

Uh huh.

[George Severis]

And Gwen Stefani is someone who, regardless of anything she did during that era, when she was in no doubt, she was slaying. That's something we have to acknowledge.

[Sam Taggart]

I would acknowledge that she was slaying within no doubt.

[George Severis]

And so how much, how many years does she have to go not slaying to. In order to no longer be someone who slays?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, there's a lot of people like this. Like, this is literally the arc of fame where it's like, how good do they have to be for you to forgive them being bad, bad, bad?

[George Severis]

And I almost think, I mean, to bring it sort of back to Kim Gordon, it's almost like. And Patti Smith is like this too. Almost the best thing you can do is as soon as you realize you're no longer slaying Just keep reminding people of the time you did Slayer. Because maybe Gwen Stefani's issue was that she kept trying to slay in different ways. And at some point you're gonna run out of ways.

[Sam Taggart]

You know what? Yeah. You're saying her thirst for slay was too insatiable, that she ended up tearing herself apart.

[George Severis]

Right. And at this point, when I think Gwen Stefani, I don't picture her wearing the bikini top from the hey Baby video.

[Sam Taggart]

Uh huh. What do you picture?

[George Severis]

I honestly picture her with Blake Shelton.

[Sam Taggart]

I was gonna say the same thing.

[George Severis]

I picture her on the Voice or whatever show she's on. I picture her honestly. I picture her literally getting interviewed by Jimmy Fallon.

[Sam Taggart]

Aw. Well, remember when she slayed? Yeah.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, how do you like. I actually think it's funny. When we started this podcast, we recorded in person and we were almost doing. I remember doing fake podcast references. I'd be like, what's up, what the fuckers? And play pretend that now that I'm here, I'm sort of like I'm having an identity Cris.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Well, it's. Suddenly, the Kunst is me.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. It's like I've returned to where I was meant to be the whole time, but it feels different.

[Sabrina Wu]

Well, yeah.

[George Severis]

It's sort of like when someone. I'm trying to think who is someone known for being a jester, for being someone who makes fun of the culture, but then suddenly they find themselves being awarded by Barack Obama.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure, sure, sure. That's what we are.

[George Severis]

You know what it reminds me of actually? What? When. Like when Eminem won an Oscar.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure.

[George Severis]

And it's like it's a losing battle to try to then win an Oscar wearing a basketball jersey or to win an. Or like, sort of do a speech as though you are both outside of it and inside. You have to either commit to ignoring the Oscars and releasing a statement that says, I'm Eminem, goddammit, and I only wanna write songs about committing violence against women. And I hate the Oscars.

[Sam Taggart]

Mm.

[George Severis]

But if you're gonna go there, it's sort of embarrassing if you don't go all the way. So now that we're in a studio, I'm like, the only way out of this is to be Terry Gross. You know what I mean?

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, okay, we can do that. So, George.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

When did you know that you were gonna be a podcaster?

[George Severis]

From a young age, I learned to speak and I would do this thing where I would listen to my own voice. And as soon as I became aware of Object permanence. I realized other people can't hear my voice. Only I can.

[Sam Taggart]

So you've talked in other interviews about your mother trying to silence you. Tell me what that was like.

[George Severis]

Yes, she would. When I would cry, she would say, stop crying. I mean, and that stays with you.

[Sam Taggart]

That's something you cannot forget.

[George Severis]

You know, it's a way in which mothers of a different generation didn't realize that when a baby cries, it's because it wants to be a podcaster.

[Sam Taggart]

When a baby cries, it's a cry for help for a podcast setup.

[George Severis]

Mm. It's a cry for help for a podcast setup. And it's also an empowering cry that says, here I am.

[Sam Taggart]

It says, what's up? What the fucker?

[Sabrina Wu]

Yes.

[George Severis]

But you know what? She's come such a long way. And now when I go home and I start crying like a baby, as soon as I enter my parents house, I start crying like a baby. Goo goo gah ga. I sort of throw bread against the wall. I open the fridge and just start throwing things away. I'm fully naked, running across the house, around the room, up and down the stairs. And now she knows and she says, good for you.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that must feel really good.

[George Severis]

It feels really good. And it's gotten a lot of work to get there, you know, and yes, I've gotten the authorities involved. You know, for a while when she kept saying, why are you doing this? This is so inappropriate. We have guests over. I would call the police and I would report her for creating an unsafe home for her children. At the time, I was 28 years old. Yeah, but you know, everyone has to learn their lesson.

[iFlag Announcer]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

So you have a book coming out, correct?

[George Severis]

Yes, and it's about my relationship with my mother and she does not like it.

[Sam Taggart]

She said, I can accept you as a podcaster, but as an author, I don't think so, honey.

[George Severis]

Yeah, and you know, yes, the book is a children's book with pictures and it's marketed towards children. And yes, the pictures are in fact erotic.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh my God.

[George Severis]

News stories.

[Sam Taggart]

No.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah. But to me, I'm like, okay, no one has ever done this before. People have written memoirs before. People have written books of humorous essays that are called like, that's my seat. But no one has ever done a children's book of erotic queer photographs of themselves.

[Sam Taggart]

No, that's true.

[George Severis]

Let me finish.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Dedicated to their mother.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure. Well, that's really powerful.

[George Severis]

I'm crying and that's all I have to say about that. So I think I'm Ready to move on to the next portion of this evening.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I think maybe we should invite

[George Severis]

our guest in and talk about someone who slays.

[Sam Taggart]

Talk about someone who's slaying and actually doesn't need to remind us that they're slaying because they're slaying.

[George Severis]

I feel like this guest, I'm almost like, well, ever since I've met them, they have been slaying. And the fact that there could be some point in the future where they stop slaying and then we have to sort of grapple with that as a community fills me with so much fear that I can't even think about it.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, that is the downside to slaying is that sometimes it creates a weapon. When will the other shoe drop feeling exactly. Like if someone's not slaying, you're not worried about them stopping slaying.

[George Severis]

I know. Well, this is the sort of like catch 20. Well, I don't know if catch 22 is the right term, but just run with it. Okay, well, this is. So this is the catch 22 is

[Sam Taggart]

that this is sort of a Sophie's Choice.

[George Severis]

This is a Sophie's Choice. This is, you know, it's sort of like maybe the solution is to never slay to begin with.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, isn't there a saying about that? It's better to have slayed and flopped than to have never slayed at all?

[George Severis]

Yeah, I guess that's true. I guess that's true. I sort of think it's a very capitalist impulse to not slay as a form of self protection where you're like, well, what if I flop? Whereas it's more communist to try to slay, knowing you might flop and trust that the social safety net will catch you when you fall.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, okay, sure. That makes sense to me.

[George Severis]

So anyway, please welcome Sabrina Wu.

[Sabrina Wu]

Hi, everybody.

[Sam Taggart]

So, Sabrina, before we started recording, we said, be careful, we're gonna do a 10 minute intro. And you said, no, that's totally okay. The first part of a podcast is always the most excruciating. How did you feel about that?

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah, you know, I actually felt better than usual.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

No, and I really mean it.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I believe you.

[Sabrina Wu]

And if anything, I was just like. I mean, what was so painful was like I just wanted to jump in so much. Like, congratulations on your book. Thank you. I hope you get a cattle. A Newberry award.

[George Severis]

Yeah, a Newberry Award. Yes. I need it.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah. But do you know what I'm talking about?

[George Severis]

The cattle I do know what you're talking about.

[Sabrina Wu]

That one is for the art specifically,

[George Severis]

which I, you know. Well, I did all the illustrations myself. Or the photograph illustrations.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, you illustrated?

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, so the way it's mixed media.

[George Severis]

Well, it's mixed media. So it's these really beautiful black and white photographs. Charcoal photographs. Yes, charcoal photographs. And then on top of them, I did a sort of Perez Hilton. White. White. Little dots. Come. Dots.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, I love.

[George Severis]

It's sort of. Well, that's what makes it a kid's book. It's sort of fun.

[Sabrina Wu]

Right. And I love it when it's like. Wait, it's actually like a picture within a. It's like you're looking, like, at a desk that they've drawn. The photo is sort. And then there's.

[George Severis]

Yes, exactly. And each book was made by hand from scratch, which is why it was sort of expensive to produce. And I'm in a lot of debt because of it. It's not. These are.

[Sabrina Wu]

Why did you make so many?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Why'd you make 1 million all on your own?

[George Severis]

Well, because I want it to be a bestseller. What am I gonna do, sell one book? Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

That makes so much. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Well, you know, the holidays are coming

[Sam Taggart]

up just around the corner.

[George Severis]

Just around the corner. So, you know, if you're looking for a way to celebrate what's in February or March.

[Sam Taggart]

Valentine's Day.

[George Severis]

Valentine's Day.

[Sabrina Wu]

What a perfect gift to your child.

[George Severis]

Yeah. For Valentine. If you want to give your child the perfect Valentine's Day gift, give your child the erotic book that I wrote containing my nudes.

[Sam Taggart]

You actually bring up an important point, which is, did you ever get presents? Did your parents give you something on Valentine's Day?

[George Severis]

No. That sounds sick. And I am publishing an inappropriate children's book.

[Sabrina Wu]

No. In fact, I don't know if my parents are big present givers. The only. My dad tried my freshman year of high school, and he was like. He gave me a ping pong paddle, which felt.

[George Severis]

But you didn't have a ping pong table.

[Sabrina Wu]

No, we did, but it still felt racially charged given that we weren't really. It's okay. And no. But I think he wanted some bonding time. And then a neon green, like, sweatband, like, for a long time.

[George Severis]

Oh, he wanted you to go pro.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, he definitely wanted you to work out.

[Sabrina Wu]

He definitely did not, but I think he wanted me to look good.

[George Severis]

Oh, I see. I see. Well, he was sort of like. I mean, it's honestly pretty considerate to be like, well, if they're gonna play ping pong, they might as well slay.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I mean, I remember getting things and no matter what it was, I would feel shame. I would be like, oh my God, my parents are in love with me.

[George Severis]

Wait, they literally got you Valentine's Day kiss?

[Sam Taggart]

No, like candy even. Or like, I remember one time they gave me like a bag for like my track shoes. You know, it wasn't like fancy. It was just like, here's a thing. Cause it's a special day.

[George Severis]

Well, here's what I'll say about Valentine's Day. As someone who. That's right. Grew up in two different countries, something that always shocked me about Valentine's Day in America is how the kids were made to write each other valentines.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

What a strange tradition. In my opinion. Like you just write little. How did it work? You just wrote little cards that didn't even have anything. It was just like from Sam to George and then gave it to your classmate.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. But it was mostly like, we're friends.

[George Severis]

Yeah, it was like heart themed.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it was like chaste. And there was like, it was mostly like a heart themed Halloween. It's just like kind of candy exchanging. And also it's sort of popularity contest because at a certain age you don't have to give it to everybody. And so then you're like, oh, I got 100 Valentines. And then it's like, oh, I only got 10. It's like, well, better luck next year. Learn to make a splash. Yeah, fifth grade's kinda hard. Grow up.

[George Severis]

Oh my God. Did it still happen in fifth grade?

[Sam Taggart]

I actually feel like it did.

[George Severis]

Oh, interesting.

[Sam Taggart]

I think it went till middle school.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah, I think it was institutionally supported.

[George Severis]

Yeah. No, that's the thing.

[Sabrina Wu]

I don't think fifth graders were like, if you were really into it, that's really.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I wasn't really into. I wasn't obsessed with it. I just knew I'd existed for you. How was. What was your feeling towards that?

[Sabrina Wu]

I was always. Well, I think my school had a policy where you could not bring. Like you couldn't only give to some people. It was for everybody. And I think I even. I have like adhd. I never remembered to bring anything for anyone. It was like a big, like, I take. Well, that's never really give.

[George Severis]

That's kind of a power move though.

[Sabrina Wu]

Thank you. It was to get back and all the other social suffering I had.

[George Severis]

I mean, it's just sort of crazy to think that you were forced by the powers that be to Give a Valentine to someone who may have bullied you or someone who you disagreed with politically.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I think it was. What's that? Toxic positivity, where they were almost hoping that it would make everyone get along and be like, if you can just give them a card that says thinking of you.

[George Severis]

But on the other hand, it is sort of like, you know, it's poly inclusive. It is. You know, everyone is in love with everyone in fifth grade, and Valentine's Day is such a individualistic, like, either you're in a couple or you're not. Sort of holiday as soon as you turn 18. But it's nice that for a while there, we all just lived in a sort of, you know, Swedish commune.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, it was very beautiful.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah. I loved my fifth grade Polycules.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I'll never forget any of them.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Wow. Well, anyway, Sabrina, how are you?

[Sabrina Wu]

I'm great. This was the highlight of my day.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah. The focal point of it. So.

[George Severis]

That's incredible.

[Sam Taggart]

That's incredible. So, George, you're right. Now, do you want to talk about that?

[George Severis]

No, no, no. We're cutting that.

[Sam Taggart]

We can pivot to me.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Would that be so crazy?

[Sabrina Wu]

No, no. And it's not. Cause I didn't give enough, right?

[George Severis]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's because Sam asked the forbidd. We'll beep it, and then we'll just reference it as the forbidden question.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Well, I guess I first want to apologize for asking the forbidden question. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Well, there's only one topic that is off limits on this podcast.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's tough because, you know, we're sort of, like you said, punk rock, Lower east side, 1970s CBGB's. And I thought, okay, so I can say anything. And, you know, George is doing, you know, boners, burning bones and children stuff. And I was like, okay, let's see.

[George Severis]

Let's see.

[Sam Taggart]

Where else we can push the envelope here?

[George Severis]

To me, everyone can have one forbidden question. Like, it's. I'm trying to think of celebrities that don't want to talk about a specific thing. It's like if you're Tom Cruise, your one thing can be that you don't want to talk about Scientology, but that's it. You can only have one forbidden question.

[Sam Taggart]

So we should ask him about his sexuality.

[George Severis]

We should ask. Exactly, yeah. And if he doesn't want us to ask about his sexuality, then he has to talk about being a scientologist. You can have it both ways.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. Do you have a forbidden question that we're not allowed to ask.

[George Severis]

By definition, I don't know if they would be able to tell us.

[Sabrina Wu]

No, I'm an open book. You can ask me anything you want.

[Sam Taggart]

That's a trap.

[Sabrina Wu]

No, I'm serious. No, I'm serious. Ask me anything.

[George Severis]

This is serious. What do you think is the worst question one of us could ask you right now?

[Sabrina Wu]

I can't believe you asked me that. Oh, my God. Oh, you know what, to be honest, like, if you ask me what my thoughts are on representation, I actually, like, glitch out and spiral. Think.

[George Severis]

And I hate to now harp on this. What sort of specific part of the representation conversation would you be most unwilling to talk about?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, craft the worst possible question.

[George Severis]

And we won't look, we won't ask it back. It's sort of like, like you're in a podcast. Two white gays are.

[Sam Taggart]

They're just like us, but uglier.

[George Severis]

Yeah, exactly. Two white gays that are just like us, but uglier and sort of inside and out and dumber.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah, you know, like, okay, you know what it's sort of like if I am an actor, is making representation for my own groups that I'm a part of, like, really, like, good for the world and like, morally significant. Like, as a. Like, does it make, like, me, like, an amazing person?

[George Severis]

Right.

[Sabrina Wu]

If I'm like. But it just depends. Like, okay. Do you know what I'm saying? Just sometimes it's just like a little. Okay, I feel like I'm being crazy.

[George Severis]

You are not being crazy.

[Sam Taggart]

You're not being crazy.

[Sabrina Wu]

It's vibrating to me. Buzzing.

[George Severis]

The question is like. And maybe correct me if I'm wrong and maybe this is not what you're touching on, but it's like there's a way to frame those questions where the only possible way to answer feels self important and moralistic. So it's almost like the person setting you up for a trap where they're like, do you feel like the work you do is important and you can't be like, well, no, but you also

[Sam Taggart]

can't be, like, actually really important. Right?

[Sabrina Wu]

Totally. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, right?

[Sam Taggart]

Is that what you're saying?

[Sabrina Wu]

A little bit. A little bit of that. And that's what I'm saying. When you ask me this, I become completely incoherent. My brain.

[George Severis]

But I actually love that. And actually that is a better reason to have a forbidden question than something you actually don't want to talk about, because I agree with you, is that the topics people are most interested in often are the ones that have the most nuance and therefore the ones you don't want to talk about in like a live podcast format.

[Sabrina Wu]

Absolutely.

[George Severis]

It's very. Save it for the book.

[Sam Taggart]

Save it for the book, Exactly.

[George Severis]

Have you ever done something sort of interview based and then asked them not to release it? No, I have.

[Sam Taggart]

Really? Wow.

[George Severis]

I did Greta Teitelman's previous podcast. It was called the Worst, I believe, where you talked about the worst moment of your life or a bad moment of your life or something. And I talked about the nitty gritty details of a breakup. And I got home and I was like, what was that? In what world did I think I would then feel comfortable with that being in the Apple podcast app for life? And I texted Greta and I was like, I'm so sorry. Absolutely don't release that.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. Was she okay with it?

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

I mean, listen, maybe behind my back she was dming, you know, texting every other member of the Brooklyn comedy scene and was like, this dumb fag George doesn't want me to release his episode. But no, she was incredibly nice about it. And I think it's like, you know, and thank God she was. And thank God, because now I sold it as a book.

[Sam Taggart]

Yay. Do you guys want to know my forbidden question?

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it's where were you on January 6, 2021?

[George Severis]

Wow. And with that, should we do our first segment?

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, we should.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No one knows what the future holds, but you deserve a weather app that can help. Weatherbug is easy to use and provides forecasts for your every need. From storm warnings to pollen levels right at your fingertips. Get the fastest local Alerts and comprehensive 10 day forecasts wherever you are. It's hyperlocal real time customizable alerts. Make sure the weather never takes you by surprise so you can plan every day with confidence. Download the free weather bug app from the App Store today and start getting accurate weather forecasts 24. 7.

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for storewide deals that earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Lindor, Chips Ahoy, Gatorade, Post Ziploc and Zoa. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.

[iFlag Announcer]

Flag football is exploding and iflag is leading the way as the Guinness World Record Holder. IFLAG host premier flag football tournaments nationwide for boys, girls, high school girls and adults. From first time players to elite competitors, iflag delivers top level competition, unforgettable experiences and a community built around the game. Ready to be part of it? Join the movement, find your tournament and learn [e-mail] that's iflag.org magnesium supplements.

[Solaray Magnesium Advertiser]

You've mastered the basics. Now it's time to optimize. If you're serious about dialing in your health upgrading your magnesium. Magnesium isn't optional. It's the key to leveling up your whole body. That's where Solaray Magnesium glycinate comes in. Mag Gly. From the number one magnesium brand in health food stores, Solaray has a 50 year legacy of delivering quality and trust in every capsule. Each ingredient is triple tested for identity, purity and potency in Solaray's GMP Certified facility in Ogden, Utah. That means what's on the label is what's in your bottle. No guesswork, just premium Mag Gly plus it's chelated in house for powerful muscle, bone and relaxation support that's designed for optimal absorption and gentle digestion. It's the upgrade your routine's been waiting for. Shop Solaray Magnesium Glycinate on Amazon or solaray.com these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[Mistr Prep Advertiser]

Did you know you can get your prep for free? Prep is a once daily pill that's up to 99% effective at preventing the transmission of HIV. Mr. Makes it easy and free to get started. All online, no doctor's office and no paperwork. They also provide free Doxy Pep, a simple antibiotic you take after sex to help prevent certain STIs. Kind of like morning after pillow for STIs. Whether you have insurance or not, Mistr's got you covered in three easy steps. 1. Sign [e-mail] 2. Consult with a licensed doctor online and 3 complete your at home testing kit. Then your medication is delivered discreetly right to your door. It's safe, easy and completely judgment free. Protect yourself and protect each other. Sign [e-mail] today.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay Sabrina, our first segment is called Straight Shooters and in it we ask you a series of rapid fire questions to gauge your familiarity with and complicity in straight culture, especially this thing or this other thing. And the only rule is you can't ask any follow up questions.

[Sabrina Wu]

Great. Great.

[George Severis]

Okay Sabrina, Gentleman's Quarterly or Lady Marmalade?

[Sabrina Wu]

Lady Marmalade.

[Sam Taggart]

Drag him. Okay. Hulk Hogan or Cat Cohen?

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, my God, Cat Cohen.

[George Severis]

That is an incredible question. Okay, Madame X or Mr. Magoo?

[Sabrina Wu]

Mr. Magoo.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Your chosen family or your chosen financial plan at Morgan Stanley?

[Sabrina Wu]

Anything but chosen family.

[George Severis]

Okay, Sabrina. A gendered Happy Meal toy or a rendered image of what New York would look like with more inclusive urban design?

[Sabrina Wu]

Chosen Happy Meal so I can say it out loud.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Lost AirPods or the Last Airbender?

[Sabrina Wu]

Last Airbender.

[George Severis]

Okay. Friday the 13th. Sunday Bloody Sunday or Wednesday Now. Streaming on Netflix.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, Wednesday. Streaming on Netflix.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Puss in Boots or Venus in Furs.

[Sabrina Wu]

Aw, Venus in Furs.

[Sam Taggart]

Why not?

[George Severis]

It's kind of crazy that there's a children's character named Puss in Boots.

[Sam Taggart]

I know, I know.

[George Severis]

There's a sort of way in which this is a sort of horseshoe theory of gay culture and children's culture, where it's sort of like Puss in Boots could either be, like, a really inappropriate drag queen, or it could be a cat wearing boots.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, and thank God it's the latter.

[George Severis]

And thank God it's the latter. Otherwise I would have to vote Republican. Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I just want to say I think you did incredible. I think I'm gonna say 900 doves.

[George Severis]

We rate each guest on a scale of 0 to 1,000 doves, and I agree, it was a 900 doves performance.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, there was a cool confidence there.

[Sabrina Wu]

900 doves?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

When. Where did I lose the other a hundred doves? Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, do you want to hear the critique or.

[George Severis]

Yes, yes, Sam, you can go first.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. First of all, you had sort of a knowing confidence, and we really loved that about your performance, but there was sort of a dismissiveness to the questions that we just worked so, so hard on. And, yeah, so I felt like that was sort of where we docked some doves.

[Sabrina Wu]

Well, that wasn't the tone I was trying to strike. I was really trying. I mean, I really respect you two. You know, I even listened to a couple of episodes.

[George Severis]

You know, Sabrina, it's like we gave you 900 doves, which is a very good score on. You know, there's no denying it.

[Sabrina Wu]

It's not a perfect score. It's not. Sorry. Sorry.

[George Severis]

But, you know, to focus on the negative like this and suddenly make us justify our score that we selected completely arbitrarily on our podcast.

[Sabrina Wu]

This is why you're never gonna slay so hard. How do you think I've gotten this far?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that's true.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

You know, I do think there's something about being complacent. And I think a lot of times sometimes I'll be like, oh, it's good. You know how people are, like, practice gratitude. Like, be happy for what you have. Like, what if that's wrong? Sometimes I'm like, oh, I love my little Bushwick apartment, and I love my, like, simple life. No, you have to move to Malibu.

[George Severis]

No, Sam, you have to leave that apartment asap.

[Sam Taggart]

I need to, like, go into, like, major debt so that I have to work really, really hard to get out of it 100%.

[George Severis]

And I do want to say one thing about your performance, Sabrina, is that the fact that you. I'm now realizing the fact that you challenge the 900 doves sort of makes it a thousand doves.

[Sam Taggart]

That's true.

[George Severis]

Because I think the fact that you knew not to challenge us when we told you not to ask questions, but then as soon as that part of it was over, you immediately were like, well, I want to see the paperwork. I want to see the receipts. Why didn't I get 1,000? And then we honestly didn't have a good enough answer for you. So the fact that you exposed us for the frauds we are means that you are winning a Pulitzer Prize in journalism, and the prize is a thousand doves.

[Sabrina Wu]

Wow. This is, like. This is actually a really important lesson to all the children who are listening to podcasts. In high school, I used to, you know, just, like, be really negative on myself. Every time I, you know, got like, a 9 out of 10 on a. You know what I mean? I'd be like. But then there were always a bunch of kids that would go back to the teacher and be scary, just like the way I was to you. Really scary. And then the next thing you know, they have a 4.3 GPA.

[Sam Taggart]

Messed up.

[George Severis]

It's really, like. Honestly, one of the most important lessons in life is to know when to challenge authority and when to sneakily not challenge authority so you can build up more challenging power later on. If you had sort of responded to each one of our straight shooters with, like, fuck off, then, like, at the end. At the end, you would have no more leeway. Like, we would have no more patience for your challenging, and you would have no leeway to challenge your score, which would, at that point be like, sort of 100.

[Sabrina Wu]

And it's true. Every time you asked me a question, my brain was like, not now.

[George Severis]

Yeah, exactly. Cause you were like, what if later I will need to challenge you?

[Sabrina Wu]

Right, Exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I mean, to be honest, if you had responded to every single one yelling at us, fuck off. I would have to, Stan. Unfortunately.

[George Severis]

God, that's true. I mean, it's really tough because we are, on the one hand, authority figures. On the other hand, we ourselves are kind of. Kim Gordon. So it is difficult when we respect the challenging of authority. So it's always, like, by challenging authority, you're, in fact, pandering to us.

[Sam Taggart]

I do think we create a toxic environment by, like, we reward people being bad.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And we actually need to reward people who are being good. Yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

Have you ever been in a. I'm so good.

[George Severis]

Do you feel like you would do well as an authority figure?

[Sabrina Wu]

No, I actually, like, actively, like, avoid positions of authority. Like.

[George Severis]

And you've been asked.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, all the time. No, well, not later in life, because I've. But I think, like, when I was, like, in high school and college, I was especially high school, I was always like, yeah, let me be captain of the team. But I was dropping. Yeah. Like, I was dropping balls left in, like, not, like, basket. Like.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

Like, you know, like, metaphorically.

[George Severis]

Metaphorically, of course.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, the team dinners. Like, you know, if there. If I didn't have, like. If there wasn't so much, like, you know, you need to. Sorry that I sound like such an ass. You know what I mean?

[George Severis]

You do not sound like an ass.

[Sabrina Wu]

Okay, great, great, great. But there is, like, a lot of pressure, like, everyone should be a leader. Everyone should be a leader. And you have it in your head and you're like, okay, like, I don't think I should be a leader, but I'll do it. Cause that feels like who I'm supposed to evolve to. But later in life, I've been like, yeah, I just fail everyone around me every time I do it.

[George Severis]

I can't do it anymore. This is such a rich topic. And I honestly think, like, leadership could be a straight topic on the podcast, because it's almost like what replaced religion when society became secular. It's this obsession with leadership. It's like, if Jesus is dead, someone else has to step up.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, leadership also and business go so hand in hand.

[George Severis]

But also, when you were a teen, did you have sort of, like, leadership camp or, like, leadership?

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, I never went to one, but, yes, I remember seeing those.

[George Severis]

It's like, the best thing you could be told at 12 years old is that you're a leader. Not, what are you leading? What if you're leading, like, Qanon? What if you're literally Leading the charge for the insurrection.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, I bet a lot of them were 12 year old leaders.

[George Severis]

Yeah, well, yes. I mean certainly cerebrally it's just like, it's very. It's crazy. Fetishizing leadership. I mean, it's the same as fetishizing like business success where it's like, well, okay, A, at what cost? B, to what end? Yeah, those are the forbidden questions in our society.

[Sabrina Wu]

Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Peow. Yeah, it's very like, okay, but leading what? Like it's. You don't want to delete anything.

[Sabrina Wu]

You'll have the like they did sort of within the framework of leadership, offer something for those who were not leaders. And it was, you know what's even more powerful than being a leader? Being the first follower. That was like, wow.

[George Severis]

Did they say that?

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah, it was a big thing. It was like. And they even have this like viral video. I'm butchering this. But in my head it exists as there's a bunch of sheep and like one sheep goes this way. Right. But it takes the second sheep for then the rest of the sheep to. You know what I mean? Like anyone. The idea was like anyone can be a leader, but to discern, you know, who the fish should follow.

[George Severis]

That's fascinating.

[Sabrina Wu]

At least. That was like sort of the sort of you could. I think that kids were a little bit.

[George Severis]

Well, you're a taste maker.

[Sam Taggart]

That's what I was gonna say. First sheep is tastemaker.

[George Severis]

First sheepest, taste maker. Wow. Is it okay now I'm like, I don't know how I feel about that. Am I against the first. Am I against the tastemaker sheep? Like do I think that's a sort of toxic framework or do I actually love that? Because the tastemaker sheep is queer coded. In fact, don't you think like the leader, the leader is straight. The leader is Barack Obama. But the tastemaker sheep is, you know, will I am writing the Obama song.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I think, I mean, unfortunately I idolize the tastemaker sheep. You know, I remember following the tastemaker sheep on Twitter in like 2012 and just being so influenced by tastemaker sheep.

[George Severis]

You're so right.

[Sam Taggart]

So I feel very like I just hope to someone that I am the tastemaker sheep.

[George Severis]

I know to be the tastemaker sheep actually is such a powerful position in culture. I'm now realizing and talk about like to go back to the conversation about slang. It's like at some point the tastemaker sheep loses their taste making abilities. Like they either get too old to be in touch with the culture. And I'm not Saying that in an ageist way, but just sort of like, they get out of touch, let's say. Yeah, they snap and become reactionary, or they misunderstand their own position and think they're a leader rather than a tastemaker sheep. And so they start making, like, merch. And it's like, well, you just run an Instagram account that curates TikToks.

[Sam Taggart]

And so. Okay, yeah, that's where the Tastemaker sheep starts falling off for me. The Instagram accounts that just curate TikTok.

[Sabrina Wu]

And I think that the framework would then say, you know, well, those are the third, fourth, and fifth followers. Those are not a first follower.

[George Severis]

So an Instagram. So an instagram that creates TikToks can never be the tastemaker sheep. That's sort of fourth, fifth, sixth.

[Sabrina Wu]

I don't. Right. Cause they can't.

[George Severis]

Yeah, no, you're right.

[Sabrina Wu]

You're posting a video that's already viral.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Wow. That is very true.

[Sam Taggart]

That's really true. They're literally, like the one millionth sheep.

[George Severis]

Okay, so it goes leader, tastemaker, curator.

[Sabrina Wu]

The more we're talking, I'm sure this video wasn't of sheep and I. But it's not.

[George Severis]

Sabrina. Sabrina. The way it has been canon now for it might as well be years.

[Sam Taggart]

No. Like, the merch is being made.

[George Severis]

The idea that you think there was any going back from this is laughable.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, I'm actually seeing all the sheep. And honestly, I'm realizing that it's kind of a danger because we're going to be having our listeners counting sheep in their head, and they're going to be falling asleep.

[George Severis]

No. 100%. And it's right. You know, it's like, leader, tastemaker, curator. Leader, tastemaker, curator. You're counting the sheep.

[Sam Taggart]

They're like, okay, so there's 17 sheep in the creative world.

[George Severis]

I'm sorry, but not to go back to children's books. This is a genius idea for a children's book. And it actually, like, so perfectly describes contemporary society. Like, to have. It's like the three sheep. One is a leader, one is a tastemaker, one is a curator. Which one do you want to be? And each person has. It's the three personality types.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, my God. This is gonna end up in, like, a. It's gonna be a company personality type. Yeah. It already feels very Myers Briggs.

[Sam Taggart]

It is.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[George Severis]

Do you respond well to things like that? Where it's like, there's three types of people, there's four types of people. Is that something that compels you it's

[Sabrina Wu]

something that, like, all right, honestly, like, if I take a little bit of Adderall, I will be doing that for 12 hours.

[George Severis]

Totally. Sure.

[Sabrina Wu]

But it's not like I'm sort of always like, oh, no, I'm glitching out again. Maybe this is a forbidden question. I'm like. It's just sort of like, you know, I can never talk about feeling like, I mean, there's some truth. And it's also totally, like, fake in the sense that you're telling a machine and then it's spitting back exactly what you've just told it and reducing what you just said.

[George Severis]

But even, like, not a test, but sort of a framework that is your, like, the idea of introvert versus extrovert, where it's like, you get your energy from being around people or you get your energy from being alone or the idea of. Or even astrology. Is it a comforting thing to put yourself in a box?

[Sam Taggart]

I have the most embarrassing tale regarding this, which is this podcast. Like I said, it's edgy. It's punk rock, it's 1970s CBGB, Debbie Harry, and we've always mocked sort of people that really lean into the introvert extrovert thing 100%. And it's sort of been like, yeah, we get it. But recently, I was around people for a long time, and I physically got sleepy in a way that was like. Like, I think I'm. I think I'm an introvert.

[George Severis]

I've always sort of thought you were an introvert.

[Sam Taggart]

And this is shocking to me because I was like, no, I don't even. I don't believe in it. Like, everyone's everything.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And now I'm like, oh, no. I believe in it so hard, and I actually think I know where I fall.

[George Severis]

Do you want to know what was a game changer for me? Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Samir.

[Sabrina Wu]

I'm just actually feeling brave. I'm feeling like your first follower. The truth is that I actually also recently really started to identify as an introvert and have really needed it to not feel crazy. And especially in comedy, there's totally.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

Way, way too much. Like, there's way too many social dynamics and, like, something about being like, oh, I really like, just who I am. My natural baseline is not the same as these other people, and I. It's just, like. It's nice you don't beat yourself up about, like, totally. Whatever.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I think that's true.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Vulnerable moment.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Sabrina Wu]

But agreed to cringe a little bit.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

It's okay.

[George Severis]

I Recently had a. A moment of deep connection to something I read, a categorization schema that I read. Oh, and this is in the book Pure Color by Sheila Heddy. And it sort of starts out in a. It's almost like you're reading a biblical fairy tale or something in the beginning. And it identifies three types of people. Bears, birds, and fish. The birds see the world from a remove, and they're sort of like the cultural critics of the world. They're not making intimate personal connections, but sort of seeing the world at a remove and making grand aesthetic and artistic judgments. Then there are the fish, which are sort of like, they care about social justice, they care about everyone equally, and they care about equality and things like that. And then there are the bears, who would develop personal connections. And they sort of can care deeply about like one to four people. They develop intimate connections. Hmm. And I was like, this is actually a better framework than a lot of the things out there. Would you say you're a fish, bear, or bird?

[Sam Taggart]

I have no idea. I'm still mulling it over.

[George Severis]

Well, we can check in at the end of the episode.

[Sabrina Wu]

You don't think that, like, wait, which one's the one that has no close friends?

[Sam Taggart]

So which one's the loser?

[George Severis]

Bird is like, imagine like too many friends. Susan Sontag, she's like at a remove. She's like judging society almost from outside of it.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, interesting.

[George Severis]

But then fish are like, care about everyone equally and want social justice and equality.

[Sam Taggart]

And bears, Bears are like mother.

[George Severis]

Bears are like a really caring friend that like, has, you know, thrives in like intimate personal relationships rather than big picture.

[Sam Taggart]

Which one are you?

[George Severis]

I mean, I think. I think I might be bird.

[Sam Taggart]

This is kind of.

[Sabrina Wu]

That's the scariest one I know.

[Sam Taggart]

That's really scary. I mean, I could see you as bird.

[George Severis]

I mean, by the way, I do develop intimate relationships.

[Sam Taggart]

Cause you have no friends. So.

[George Severis]

Not that I don't have friends, but it's sort of like I do feel like my instinct often is to like, try to. To a fault, almost like try to think big picture and try to like, I don't know, come up with a diagnosis for what I'm seeing.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure, I'd see that. This one seems. This reminds me of the representation question a little bit. Because there feels like no way to pick one without being self aggrandizing.

[George Severis]

100%. Yeah, because all of them are good. I mean, either you are an iconic cultural critic or you care about social justice, or you are like a really good friend, daughter, son, Parent.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

Okay. Well, I have a reading on the fish. One that isn't like. I mean, I don't not care about social justice.

[George Severis]

Sure.

[Sabrina Wu]

I'm not saying this is somebody who's like the most, like, you know, I would never. Whatever. Okay. But I think I am a fish in the sense that, like, I actually cannot. Like, there are so many people I defend that I don't like that are not close to me.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Sabrina Wu]

Or that are even problematic, like controversial figures, like within a community that everyone else is, you know. Like, I really think, like, I think a lot about, like, is this fair? And like a really. I don't know, but I almost think

[George Severis]

that's a bird impulse.

[Sabrina Wu]

Really?

[George Severis]

Yeah. Because you're like doing critical analysis. Like, I feel like fish is simpler. It's like wanting everyone to be equal. It's like not caring more about someone who's closer to you than you do about someone on the street. Like, it's a sort of equalizing thing. Whereas what you're doing, I think is. Is like critical analysis. What do you think?

[Sabrina Wu]

Interesting.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know.

[Sabrina Wu]

I think I don't get what the bird is up to.

[Sam Taggart]

And to piggyback off that, why is the fish social justice? Like, that seems like an oversimplification. I guess I'd have to read the book to sort of see how we got there. I think that could help inform. Cause the bird. I get visually why they're removed and why they're seeing the world in this way.

[George Severis]

I think fish think of a school of fish all moving together, you know, it's like more collectively minded.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, okay.

[Sabrina Wu]

Sure.

[Sam Taggart]

I think I'm either fish or bear, but I don't know which.

[Sabrina Wu]

Aw,

[George Severis]

wow. I feel like such a bitch for identifying as a bird.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, well, your tweets say you are.

[George Severis]

Alright, well, should we get into our topic?

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So, Sabrina.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

I would love it with all my heart if you would tell us what topic you have brought forth today for this episode.

[Sabrina Wu]

Sure. And I'm actually gonna try to move faster through my sentences.

[George Severis]

There is no reason to move faster or slower.

[Sabrina Wu]

I need to get a thousand dubs on this whole episode. Sorry, sorry. Okay. I did come. I wanted to talk about homoeroticism.

[George Severis]

Yeah. I mean, it's sort of the topic that. It's sort of the umbrella topic.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. That is essentially what this podcast is about. Is that. So what led you to homoeroticism? What was your way into that?

[Sabrina Wu]

Totally. Thank you.

[Sam Taggart]

As a straight topic.

[Sabrina Wu]

Well, as I was trying to come up with something Straight to talk about. I was gonna talk about anime and then like. And then my. Which I think is. Some people think of as pretty queer, but I have a pretty strong. Like, I don't think so.

[George Severis]

Oh, interesting.

[Sabrina Wu]

The women in anime are. Have a very flat personality and the largest tits I've ever seen, even if they're the strongest fight. Okay, yeah, yeah. Right. So. But the sort of pause is like, well, you know, it's very homoerotic. Like, a lot of these characters are sort of. But it's like the fact that there is this sort of concept of homoerotic. Right. Like, if it were homosexual, that would be gay. But alas, it's homoerotic. It's like, it's the. What we're saying is it's so close, but it's actually not. And who even wants that?

[George Severis]

Exactly.

[Sabrina Wu]

Other than. You know what I mean? There's even closeted. Closeted. That's for gay. Like, that concept. And that's pretty homosexual.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

Am I making sense?

[Sam Taggart]

No, you're making actually so much sense, it's insane.

[George Severis]

It's the straightest thing you can be. Because it is saying this is not. It's literally no homo. It's saying this is not gay.

[Sam Taggart]

I love the making them mutually exclusive. Homoeroticism and homosexuality, I think is one very funny and two very. I see the truth in that. The anime point about, like, the women's huge tits and flat personalities. There is an element to that where it's like, were these made by gay men?

[George Severis]

Like, oh, sure, yeah, yeah. When you, you know, when you see misogyny out in the wild, you always have to ask yourself, is this gay misogyny or straight misogyny?

[Sabrina Wu]

Okay, I'm sorry.

[George Severis]

Often the result. Often the result is pretty similar.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it's like. Yeah, it's like, well, she is slaying.

[George Severis]

Right.

[Sam Taggart]

But did she want to slay the.

[George Severis]

Is she a sexual object or is she an iconic object?

[Sabrina Wu]

No, I think you're imagining these women a little bit too powerful. They are sort of like.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Do you think Lara Croft is. Lara Croft is. She's an iconic object.

[Sam Taggart]

She's iconic.

[Sabrina Wu]

Is she an anime? She's.

[George Severis]

No, she's not. But I'm just.

[Sabrina Wu]

She's a video.

[George Severis]

Yeah, she's a video. But I'm just thinking about other sort of like exaggerated, fictional. Animated or animated adjacent women who famously have giant breasts.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, okay.

[George Severis]

Homoeroticism. So homoeroticism. How would we define homoeroticism? I think maybe that's a good place to start.

[Sam Taggart]

So it's two guys. Two to four guys. Yeah.

[George Severis]

First of all, it can be women.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. This is the first I'm hearing of this.

[George Severis]

Like, Sam, women can be homoerotic to one another.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm listening and I'm learning.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Okay. So it's a group of people.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

And just to say as a non binary person, non binary people cannot be.

[George Severis]

Cannot be homophobic.

[Sabrina Wu]

It's never. You're never like, this is homo. You'd be like, no matter where they lean, you're like, that's gay. That's really. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

Well, that's sort of how in that way you are breaking the ultimate binary between homoeroticism and homosexuality.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[George Severis]

Wow. Something to think about.

[Sam Taggart]

Something to think about.

[George Severis]

To me, it's like it is the hint of everything. But anal, it is like the hint. It is hinting at homosexuality, Hinting at same sex attraction.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure, sure.

[George Severis]

But is it something more than that?

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, don't we refer to those weird old Greek art paintings that are like two guys truly going at it? Does that not count as homoerotic?

[George Severis]

Well, that is a very good question because you do see, actually truly three guys having full on sex.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And people are like, wow, this is so homoerotic.

[Sam Taggart]

And I'm like, no, I think it's

[George Severis]

a little more than that. That's actually porn. Nice try, sweetie.

[Sabrina Wu]

It is straight people who are going homoerotic. Yeah. Gay people will be like, oh my God, that's true.

[George Severis]

Well, accusations of homoeroticism can almost be weaponized both ways because straight people can look at something fully gay and be like, wow, I guess that's a little homoerot. And then they're like straight washing it. But then gay people can look at like, you know, Ben Affleck and Matt Damon and be like, that's homoerotic. It's like, well, no, you're like trying to make it gay, Right?

[Sam Taggart]

They're just friends.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I think, huh.

[George Severis]

We don't know.

[Sam Taggart]

We don't know. Maybe that's their forbidden question. Yeah.

[George Severis]

I mean, it is sort of like the fact that Ben Affleck's most lasting relationship is with Matt Damon and then he sort of is dating an iconic pop star, Jennifer Lopez. It's kind of gay.

[Sam Taggart]

That's really gay, actually.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

So, okay, well, thoughts on queerbaiting and how it. That was sort of my thought on the subway, like how it fits into all of this.

[George Severis]

Talk about a forbidden question.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, God.

[George Severis]

Like, don't you think it is impossible, like the idea, the concept of queerbaiting is one of those things that I don't think I could form a coherent

[Sam Taggart]

thought about the way that that is a circle. Always when people start talking about it, I'm always like, oh, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Because my instinct, to be honest is like, that is sort of Tumblr bullshit. And I don't. And I don't care about it. Like, it literally does not make a difference to me that Timothee Chalamet is playing a gay person.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Or Sorry. Which I realize is like a different. That's different than queerbaiting. Or that Timothee Chalamet is wearing a, you know, bra on a red carpet.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, totally. Or Harry Styles.

[George Severis]

Or Harry Styles, whatever.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. Yeah.

[George Severis]

But then, of course, someone does toe the line too much, and then I do become upset.

[Sam Taggart]

Who toes the line too much?

[George Severis]

Not tows the line, but, like, I mean, I think Harry Styles is a good exam. It's difficult to talk about this without. While also being like, I actually don't. Like, none of this is morally important. It's just annoying. Don't you think? Like, I think you can be like, it is annoying. And it makes me roll my eyes. When Harry Styles is like, I've never identified as anything. Right. When he's dating Olivia Wilde. But that doesn't mean I think he should be arrested.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I don't think he should be murdered. I think he should be allowed to put out more music if he wants to.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And by the way, talk about homoeroticism. I actually think. I think if you're gonna queerbait, go all the way. I love that Bruce Springsteen makes out with that. I'm forgetting his name. If, you know. You know, he makes out with a male member of his band, and it's a thing that people know about, and he will kiss him while they're on stage.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, I love that.

[George Severis]

Or like, who's the guy from Arctic Monkeys? Alex Turner. He has this other group, and they always are being intentionally caressing each other's pecs on stage. And it's like, everyone knows about it and it's fun, and they're almost making out, and I'm sort of like, well, that's fun. And that's more fun to me than Harry Styles just wearing a dress.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

What are your thoughts?

[Sabrina Wu]

My thoughts are. I also break down. But this one. And not to be so serious, but, like, the. The only thing that gives me pause because I generally also find it, like, annoying. It's just like, I don't know like, it's also a lot like, to like, what's. What's. What's the alternative? Like, given a world where, like, Harry is like, even like genderqueer or, like, it's just like, when you're that famous, I feel like the stakes are insane. And to ask somebody to be, like, overtly gay, it's like, obviously I'm sort of like. And that's why I break down. Well, that's why I just jumped ship from this question. Cause I'm like, I'm not. I don't think queerbaiting conceptually is great. I just think that, like, queerbaiting in a vacuum is not great, but, like, pushing somebody to, like, never seem gay unless you're ready to fully commit to being openly gay. Especially as, like, a world, like, in a world where there is so much like, violence and hate. YouTube is scary. I'm sort of like, yeah, like, do it. Like, does that make sense? Like, the danger of queerbaiting is like, it's very hard to tell if somebody is queerbaiting or just like trying to

[George Severis]

have a baby kind of as like a 24 year old or whatever. Whatever age Harry Styles is.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

Well, did I ruin this podcast?

[George Severis]

No, you didn't ruin it. You didn't ruin it. I think the.

[Sam Taggart]

I think we're at 800 dubs, though.

[George Severis]

What do you think?

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know. I think this. I also. I mean, we're a couple of people being like, I don't know.

[George Severis]

But I think it's an. But I think it's almost like. It's almost like, weird that we haven't discussed the concept of queerbaiting on the pod because it seems so relevant to our interests.

[Sam Taggart]

It seems so easy to be like, to come off as ignorant when talking about this. Cause I am more like, ugh. Like, this is so annoying. If you're gonna be gay, be gay. And if you're not, or even say, like, I'm questioning or something. There is a label. There are labels for a reason. And some people like Harry Styles, it seems like there's. I don't know, it seems like there's some authentic part of him that wants to explore something. And I celebrate that. And if not, then this boy cuckoo. And. But then there's like, who's really bad at it? Like, Charlie Puth. I feel like he's one that. It's like he's just trying to get gay guys to like him.

[George Severis]

Okay, that is so funny that you say that. Cause I prefer Charlie Puth's brand of queerbaiting. Because what Charlie Puth will do is just post a picture of his ass and then have a funny caption that's like, well there's my ass. Whereas what Harry Styles will do is launch a line of gender neutral clothing for Gucci. And to me, I actually prefer Charlie Puth just posting a photo of his ass. Like that actually feels regardless of whether he literally has a he's like sitting back there in his lair and is like, I'm gonna get these gay guys to press like on this. Even if it's completely inauthentic. Whatever. It feels at least fun and spontaneous in a way that like Harry Styles launching a brand of nail polish does not.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure, sure, sure that makes sense.

[George Severis]

And I feel like the best sort of non gay. You know, when I think of like Prince or when I think of like, I don't know, other people that have played with gender over the years without necessarily coming out and being like I'm gay, it's that it comes from a place of like fun rather than a place of calculated branding and profit. And profit, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

So if you want to explore with your presentation or your sexuality, go for it. But don't you make a damn dime until I'm rich.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No one knows what the future holds, but you deserve a weather app that can help. Weatherbug is easy to use and provides forecasts for your every need from storm warnings to pollen levels right at your fingertips. Get the fastest local Alerts and comprehensive 10 day forecasts wherever you are. Its hyperlocal real time customizable alerts. Make sure the weather never takes you by surprise so you can plan every day with confidence. Download the free weather Bug app from the App Store today and start getting accurate weather forecasts 247 hey, it's Ryan

Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Hunts, Nerds, Pillsbury, Lowry's, Breyers, Quaker and Culture Pop. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.

[iFlag Announcer]

Flag football is exploding and iflag is leading the way as the Guinness World Record Record holder. Iflag hosts premier flag football tournaments nationwide for boys, girls, high school girls and adults. From first time players to elite competitors. Iflag delivers top level competition, unforgettable experiences and a community built around the game. Ready to be part of it. Join the movement, find your tournament and learn [e-mail] that's iflag.org magnesium supplements.

[Solaray Magnesium Advertiser]

You've mastered the basics. Now it's time to optimize. If you're serious about dialing in your health, upgrading your magnesium isn't optional. It's the key to leveling up your whole body. That's where Solaray Magnesium Glycinate comes in. Mag Gly from the number one magnesium brand in health food stores, Solaray has a 50 year legacy of delivering quality and trust in every capsule. Each ingredient is triple tested for identity, purity and potency in Solaray's GMP certified facility in Ogden, Utah. That means we what's on the label is what's in your bottle. No guesswork, just premium Mag Gly plus it's chelated in house for powerful muscle, bone and relaxation support. That's designed for optimal absorption and gentle digestion. It's the upgrade your routine's been waiting for. Shop Solaray Magnesium Glycinate on Amazon or solaray.com these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[Mistr Prep Advertiser]

Did you know you can get your prep for free? Prep is a once daily peel that's up to 99% effective at preventing the transmission of HIV. Mistr makes it easy and free to get started all online, no doctor's office and no paperwork. They also provide free Doxy Pep, a simple antibiotic you take after sex to help prevent certain STIs. Kind of like morning after pill for STIs. Whether you have insurance or not, Mistr's got you covered in three easy steps. One, sign [e-mail] two, consult with a licensed doctor online and three, complete your at home testing kit. Then your medication is delivered discreetly right to your door. It's safe, easy and completely judgment free. Protect yourself and protect each other. Sign [e-mail] today.

[George Severis]

Sabrina, if you were to launch a brand that targeted the LGBTQ community, what sort of product do you think you would launch?

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh my God. Oh I would get lesbians like a hat that cannot go backwards.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Sabrina Wu]

Is that okay to say? Yes, I can say it.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, this is always the question is how do you enforce that?

[George Severis]

Right? Well it would start making noise when it was turned the other way. It would just be like maybe there's

[Sam Taggart]

like a weight in it where it's like this. Like, you could spin it around as much as you want, but the bill always moves to the front.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, maybe it's like a magnet.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yes. It could be done with magnets. Magnetic properties.

[Sabrina Wu]

Wait, I'm actually gonna do this in my lifetime?

[George Severis]

No, that's perfect.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, I think that's genius.

[Sabrina Wu]

And you agree, like, there's something about

[George Severis]

that is not our place to say, Sabrina. And if that's how you feel, then absolutely. Like, make that. Make that pronouncement on our podcast. But you're not gonna trick us into agreeing with you that lesbians should not wear backwards hats.

[Sabrina Wu]

It's not even like that. It's just. And I'm. Look, I love every lesbian. Not all equally clearly, but.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

Well, you're not a fish, right? I'm unfortun the bird.

[George Severis]

You're a bird. You're a bird in the sense that you're like. Why are all these lesbians wearing backwards hats?

[Sabrina Wu]

Well, it's just that I guess, like, if I had to say my preference, like, I prefer lesbians. Oh. You know, well, I think of lesbians on a spectrum. They're the backward hat lesbians.

[George Severis]

Backward hats lesbians.

[Sabrina Wu]

Right.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Sabrina Wu]

Did you say beautiful?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I just love a spectrum.

[George Severis]

Oh, well, we love a spectrum on

[Sabrina Wu]

straight away lesbians in their backwards hats who, when I see them in the audience of a standup show, I'm scared. Like, I'm actually scared that they will. Okay. And then on the other side of the spectrum, a lot of them, honestly are. It actually gets buyer on this side. But it's like, it's the turtleneck, big pants. Oh, kind of. And I generally sort of lipstick lesbians. Not lipstick.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Sabrina Wu]

No, no, no. There's in fact, no lipstick. Relatively chapstick. Like, it's that, but it's like, it's the Tumblr hoe. But not even. Like, it can be just more like a lit. Like a quiet me lit kind of, versus, like loud, sporty.

[George Severis]

Got it.

[Sabrina Wu]

Right.

[Sam Taggart]

It's Rooney Mara and Carol. No. Is that the actress?

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah, no, that is the actress. Watch.

[Sabrina Wu]

Carol. I just don't remember.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Thank you.

[George Severis]

So you're saying Tumblr thought, your words.

[Sabrina Wu]

I guess that's what I'm saying. Like, Tumblr thought on this side, and I kind of don't really love sporty

[George Severis]

backwards hat on one side. Tumblr thought on the other side.

[Sabrina Wu]

Right. And I'm sort of caught in between both worlds in terms of, like, I Love, like art. I don't like read a lot, but I did play like a lot of sports. Like I, you know, but there's just something about like the backwards hat where I'm just sort of like, to me there's a lot less like, let's think about queering the world. It's a lot of like, I love women. I love, like, I love drinking my beer and like, and I guess that's. Or. And it's not even like every lesbian with a backwards hat is like that. But they are perpetuating that culture because that is a symbol of that kind of thing.

[George Severis]

It's a hate symbol.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yes, yes. With equal weight as any other.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Sabrina Wu]

I don't know any other symbols.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, you can't think of one.

[George Severis]

Let's see what other symbols. I mean, wow, put that, try to bleep that out. If you're a lesbian wearing a backwards hat, you might as well be wearing a.

[Sabrina Wu]

We actually have to cut that out. George. Can you just bleep it?

[Sam Taggart]

We'll bleep it.

[Sabrina Wu]

Everyone can use their imagination about, you know, sort of what symbol came to my mind.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Wow, a lot of bleeping. This pretty special.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. This is a really. Maybe we should advertise it even as like stradio lab censored like never before.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Sabrina, do you feel like when a lesbian. I'm not even gonna ask how you're gonna police that these hats only be worn by lesbians. I'm just gonna assume there's a framework in mind. But let's say they're only worn by lesbians. Is your goal for the person who wears this hat to then sort of be led to self reflection? They try to turn it around, it doesn't go around. And then they're like, wait a minute, what am I trying to do by turning my head around?

[Sabrina Wu]

Exactly. Like when you try to turn around, it says things like don't say shoddy or don't make. Like, don't. Like if you're white. You know what I mean?

[George Severis]

Tie your shoes.

[Sabrina Wu]

It's actually specifically maybe for white and Asian lesbians or like, you know what I mean? Like light skinned lesbians cannot. You know what I'm trying to avoid? It's. What is that called? Like a hey mama lesbian. I want to. It's not, it's not eugenics. Because I'm not like killing them. No, I think there should be fewer. I think there should be fewer. And that's not who lesbians are at their core.

[Sam Taggart]

You can put one of those types of lesbians in a museum.

[George Severis]

Totally.

[Sabrina Wu]

And then the others will change just inside the glass. Oh, man. No one's gonna see this. But you know what I'm talking about.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God. If I were to describe what Sabrina is doing, I would say, imagine the emoji that's biting his lip.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Severis]

That is sort of the vi. That's the kind of lesbian vibe that you're talking about. Yes. I can picture it so well. And in fact, the biting of the lip is even more evocative than the backwards hat in some ways.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, the way that you've painted a picture. I wish there was video. I feel I know this person, you know, so.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know someone who used to be one. I used to wear a velvet coat.

[Sam Taggart]

You used to be that.

[Sabrina Wu]

I mean, I was never a. Hey, mommalet. There's no part of me that could, you know.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Did you say shoddy?

[Sabrina Wu]

No, no. But I was so close. Like, did you. But I definitely wanted. I was like, I really want to ask my girl out to prom. I learned how to dance, and when

[George Severis]

she would, like, saying my girl, or even, like, God forbid, my lady.

[Sabrina Wu]

Right. Never my lady. Never said my girl out loud, but definitely thought that way. You know what I mean? Like, internally, I was like, why is she going to prom with that guy? Like, I'm just as good at sports as him, and I. I can dance. Like, I'm so good at da. Like, you know, it's just like, whatever, Whatever.

[Sam Taggart]

Maybe she knew that he was a really good leader.

[Sabrina Wu]

He wasn't. I was a good leader.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

I thought you were dropping balls.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, I was.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God.

[iFlag Announcer]

Callback.

[Sabrina Wu]

Wow. I'm, like, really learning a lot about how I. Does that happen to you where you're like, as you age, you're like, your conception of your earlier self, like, oh, a hundred. You talk. You're like, we. I don't know what I think of how I was.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, it's hard to create a succinct narrative. And we talk about how we both think of ourselves as we were really good boys. And so now we kind of feel like we can be really bad and be like, well, everyone knows we're good boys. And it's like, no, it's kind of like, you can slay and then you can stop slaying. But for how long? Until people just.

[George Severis]

But in terms of being a good boy.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Yeah. In a family framework, slaying means being a good boy. But I also. I mean, I've talked about this before, but to me, the episode of 30 Rock where Liz realizes that she used to be a bully when she thought that she used to be the victim. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, yes. Yeah. That's like the first episode, right.

[George Severis]

She goes to her high school reunion.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, oh, oh, someone has told me.

[George Severis]

And she thinks that all these popular girls bullied her. But in fact, what happened was that she was so afraid of being bullied that she would, like, preemptively be like, what's the deal with your mom's pill addiction? Like, to the popular girl. Whatever. That's one of the lines. Whatever. And I do, I mean, not to say that I was that bad, but I do think it was a form of self preservation where because you don't want to be the butt of a joke, you then speak out of turn and make fun of someone or think you're punching up. But it's like, well, that is still a 13 year old boy.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. So. Yeah. But no, to answer your question, we know exactly who we are and we always know who we've been.

[George Severis]

Yeah. All narratives are linear and coherent. Yeah. Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. Well, homoeroticism.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I actually think we, like, randomly got deeper than normal.

[George Severis]

I completely agree. I'm trying to think of, like, what is the straightest. Oh, my God. Wait, we haven't even talked about this. What? Talk about women and homeroticism. The epitome of straight homoeroticism is like the dorm poster of two girls making out. Do you know what I mean?

[Sam Taggart]

I know exactly the poster.

[George Severis]

Or like the beer ad where the twins. Where it's like, I love twins. Like that sort of. Sabrina, you look.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah, I guess I'm. I just don't know this dorm poster.

[George Severis]

Oh, okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my gosh.

[George Severis]

I think maybe you're like, truly like a couple. It's generational, but, like, people listening know there is a poster. It's a black and white photo of two girl. Two. Two girls. Very sort of like conventionally attractive thin girls in like, underwear and like a tank with no bra.

[Sam Taggart]

Exactly.

[George Severis]

And they are about to kiss. Or maybe in the process, I think they're making out. I think they're actively making out. But it's like that is.

[Sam Taggart]

It was in like half of all dorm rooms for I think, a decade.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And then of course, you know, it

[Sam Taggart]

was like that in the Pulp Fiction poster.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, that one is still around with the bananas.

[George Severis]

Or like, think about.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, shit.

[George Severis]

Or think about the Rolling Stone cover. That was Blake Lively. And Leighton Meester licking an ice cream cone. Does that ring any bells? Not as many, but you can clearly imagine what I'm saying.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Simply just the two of them both licking the same ice cream cone. All I'm saying is like men fetishizing lesbianism is the ultimate sort of homoeroticism is straight.

[Sam Taggart]

Of course that's true homoeroticism. For straight consumption.

[George Severis]

For straight consumption. And then for men, what would it be?

[Sam Taggart]

It would be the Abercrombie guys in 2003.

[George Severis]

Yeah, Abercrombie guys in 2003. And also soccer players after they win when they all start just like literally fingering each other.

[Sam Taggart]

Why do they do that?

[George Severis]

It's actually insane.

[Sam Taggart]

They need to stop.

[George Severis]

Talk about queerbaiting. And we're putting Harry Styles on lacrosse.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, put the UK soccer team on blast. Like what are they doing?

[Ryan Seacrest]

No one knows what the future holds, but you deserve a weather app that can help. Weatherbug is easy to use and provides forecasts for your every need from storm warnings to pollen levels right at your fingertips. Get the fastest local Alerts and comprehensive 10 day forecasts wherever you are. Its hyperlocal real time customizable alerts. Make sure the weather never takes you by surprise so you can plan every day with confidence. Download the the free Weather Bug app from the App Store today and start getting accurate weather forecasts 247 hey, it's

Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's Stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Hunts, Nerds, Pillsbury, Lowry's, Breyers, Quaker and Culture Pop. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.

[iFlag Announcer]

Flag football is exploding and iflag is leading the way as the Guinness World Record Holder. Iflag hosts premier flag football tournaments nationwide for boys, girls, high school girls and adults. From first time players to elite competitors, iflag delivers top level competition, unforgettable experiences and a community built around the game. Ready to be part of it. Join the movement, find your tournament and learn [e-mail] that's iflag.org magnesium supplements.

[Solaray Magnesium Advertiser]

You've mastered that now take it to the next level. Upgrade to Solar Ray Magnesium Glycinate from the number one magnesium brand in health food stores with a 50 year legacy of quality and trust, Solaray triple tests every raw ingredient for identity, purity and potency. The result? Expertly chelated magnesium for powerful muscle, bone and relaxation support that fits your daily stack. Shop Solaray Magnesium Glycinate on Amazon or solaray.com these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[Mistr Prep Advertiser]

Did you know you can get your prep for free? Prep is a once daily peel that's up to 99% effective at preventing the transmission of HIV. Mr. Makes it easy and free to get started all online. No doctor's office, no paperwork. They also provide free doxy pep, a simple antibiotic you take after sex to help prevent certain STIs. Kind of like morning after pill for STIs. Whether you have insurance or not, Mister's got you covered in three easy steps. One, sign [e-mail] two, consult with a licensed doctor online. And three, complete your at home testing kit. Then your medication is delivered discreetly right to your door. It's safe, easy and completely judgment free. Protect yourself and protect each other. Sign [e-mail] today.

[George Severis]

Any final thoughts on homoeroticism?

[Sabrina Wu]

No, just thanks. And I can't believe I missed such a huge topic.

[George Severis]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

All right.

[George Severis]

I'm really excited about the launch of the hat.

[Sabrina Wu]

Thank you.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I can't wait for that party.

[George Severis]

And we do operate an investment fund and we're looking for things to invest in and we especially love queer creators.

[Sabrina Wu]

I think legally I could not make this hat without you given that I will use patent magnet technology.

[George Severis]

Right, right. And that was our idea from the lab.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Literally.

[Sam Taggart]

Literally. Wow.

[George Severis]

Wow. Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Will you introduce our final segment?

[George Severis]

I would be honored and overjoyed. Our final segment, Sabrina, is called Shout outs. And in this segment we pay homage to a classic straight art form called the radio shout out. Think TRL, think. A radio morning show on Z100. We are shouting out to something that is making us say, okay, Sam, do you have one?

[Sam Taggart]

Um, sure. What's up? Everyone around the globe, I love you. I see you. And I want to give a quick shout out to riding my bike. I have not been riding my bike as much recently. I blame the pandemic. And then I blame sort of leaving the house less generally. And today I met a friend for lunch and I rode my bike. Just a short little 15 minute bike ride. And I said this puts me in an incredible mood. I feel my mind is cleared. I feel in touch with the city of New York. And I feel like, yeah, I'm still rough and tumble. I'm still a guy who rides a bike somewhere and maybe a car will pass me and I'll go, hey, hey, stop it. And I take up space in the road and I'm happy to do it. I think that's why my ass looks the way it does because of all those biking years. And I just want to say, I love you. Bike riding. You make me feel whole.

[Sabrina Wu]

Woo.

[George Severis]

Wow. Wow. I think that's why my ass looks the way it looks. What are the hotter statements you've said on this podcast recently?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, you know, sometimes you gotta lean

[George Severis]

in or lean back.

[Sam Taggart]

I'll say.

[George Severis]

Let's see. I'm trying to think of one. I know. You gave me so much time, and yet I still am coming up blank. This is truly insane. This is the second time this has happened to me this week.

[Sam Taggart]

You've got it. I know.

[George Severis]

You got it. I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay, okay, okay. What's up, everybody out there? It's your boy George. And sorry for introducing myself as such, we all have flaws. I want to give a shout out, respectfully and honorably to my favorite breakfast of choice recently, which is a piece of toast, cottage cheese, pistachios, and then cracked black pepper. I'm telling you, combine this baby with a fresh pot of Joe and you are cooking.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Wow.

[George Severis]

And I've already shouted out good culture cottage cheese on this podcast, but at this point, it was years ago. So for all our union listeners, go out there, get some good culture cottage cheese, get some bread of your choosing, get some shelled pistachios. I know it seems so glamorous and so expensive, but you have to treat yourself to shelled pistachios. Put a couple of them on. I'm talking no more than five to six. And then if you don't mind getting messy, sprinkle some olive oil on it. And if you are sort of on the go, just the black pepper will do. And then go about your day. I guarantee you, you will get that big client, you will land that big meeting, and you will get that job. Why? Because you had a good breakfast.

[iFlag Announcer]

Woo.

[Sam Taggart]

I love that you're a breakfast freak.

[George Severis]

I'm not like a. I know that when we were together in la, famously, I kept having three eggs every morning.

[Sam Taggart]

You were, like, so addicted to eggs.

[George Severis]

I know. And I do love making breakfast into an event, but when I'm working, I love just that sort of small. I mean, I'm talking one piece of toast. Like, just like to have a tiny meal to just whet your appetite for lunch and know that in three short hours you'll eat again. There's nothing like it.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[George Severis]

Are you a breakfast person?

[Sabrina Wu]

I am a breakfast person in the sense that I love when I get. I think that in the morning I'm the most open minded.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Sabrina Wu]

The foods that I do think eggs are gross.

[George Severis]

Wow, you don't like eggs?

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, I eat them, but they feel very gross.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yeah, but I eat them and it's just like, I think the morning is a special time to eat. I think, yeah, it must be an enjoyable time to eat because I'm eating the foods I would never eat past the hour of like toast, eggs, yogurt. They're all kind of like, I've been

[George Severis]

really, I've been struggling yogurt so much. Like, I. I just am never in the mood for yogurt. You know what I mean, honey, that

[Sam Taggart]

makes one of us.

[George Severis]

Anyway, Sabrina, whenever you're ready, Sabrina, whenever

[Sam Taggart]

you're ready, feel free to go for it.

[Sabrina Wu]

Okay, I'm all right. Okay. Hey, Sabrina. Woozer. Hi. Okay, I'm so. Oh my God. There's gonna be a soundtrack underneath this too, huh?

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sabrina Wu]

Okay, I have to shout out. I love all of my followers equally, but there is one fan in particular that I have to shout out. Mostly because actually two and a half years ago, he said to me, if you ever get on straightiolabs, there is this segment called shoutouts and it would actually mean the world to me if you shouted me out. He is somebody that I auditioned for many avant garde plays he directed in college, and yet he casted me into the ensemble. He's so hot. But sorry, fellas, he's taken and he's so delightful. A huge fan of the bod. Thomas, the shout out goes to you. Woo.

[George Severis]

Oh my God. Oh, wow. Thomas.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. Unbelievable.

[George Severis]

That was incredible.

[Sam Taggart]

That was amazing. Do you ever get reminded that people actually listen to this podcast and go,

[George Severis]

whoa, not if I can help it.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, how the hell did he hear about this?

[Sabrina Wu]

Wow, it's crazy. He got all my. Everyone that I did plays with in college obsessed with this podcast? No, that's actually why I was like, I need to, to prep for this because people are gonna listen. To be honest, it feels like I'm auditioning again for a play. Like, I feel stressed.

[George Severis]

Well, let me tell you something, Sabrina. You got the role, you booked.

[Sabrina Wu]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. Well, thanks so much for doing the pod.

[George Severis]

I always love ending on a sort of self congratulatory note.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Good job, George.

[George Severis]

And good job to you. Well, thank you everyone for listening, especially good job, Sabrina. And good job, Sabrina.

[Sabrina Wu]

Oh, great job.

[George Severis]

And to you.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And honestly, great job, Thomas. Because you know what? Thomas is First Sheep.

[Sam Taggart]

First sheep Influencer Sheep.

[Sabrina Wu]

Yes.

[George Severis]

Maker sheep. What's it called? Tastemaker Sheep.

[Sam Taggart]

That's it.

[George Severis]

Yeah. We have to go. But Tastemaker Sheep is one of the most incredible inventions.

[Sam Taggart]

That's the name of the hat company. Yeah.

[George Severis]

And my challenge to everyone is just spend some time thinking about the sheep framework because it's actually genius. Goodbye.

[Sam Taggart]

Goodbye.

[George Severis]

Podcast ends now for our visual learners. You can watch full video episodes on our YouTube channel and subscribe to our

[Sam Taggart]

Patreon for two extra episodes a month

[George Severis]

at patreon.com Stradiolab Stradiolab is a production

[Sam Taggart]

by Will Ferrell's Big Money players network

[George Severis]

and iHeart podcasts, created and hosted by me, George Severis and Sam Taggart, executive

[Sam Taggart]

produced by Jenna Cagle, co produced by

[George Severis]

Becca Ramos, edited by Lauren Stumpf and mixed and mastered by Doug Bain.

[Sam Taggart]

Artwork by Michael Fails and Matt Griffin. Theme music by Ben Kling.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Hey y', all, it's Lauren LaRosa. Have you ever had one of those weeks where your curls are just parched? Like no matter what you do, they are begging for moisture. Cantu heard you loud and clear with their new Ultra moisture collection. Powered by botanical and Jamaican Black castor oil, this new line is clinically proven to help retain moisture for up to five days. Delivers up to five days of non stop hydration. Five whole days, y'.

[Sam Taggart]

All.

[Lauren LaRosa]

The shampoo gently cleanses without stripping and the leave in and stylers keep curls soft, defined and hydrated long after your wash day. Plus, it's free of sulfates, parabens, silicones and mineral oils. If your curls have been craving real hydration, then this is it. So if your hair's curls have been so thirsty, go ahead and try that new Cantu Ultra moisture collection. Your curls will thank you. It's available now at Walmart, Target and Amazon. So go get it.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No one knows what the future holds, but you deserve a weather app that can help. Weatherbug is easy to use and provides forecasts for your every need. From storm warnings to pollen levels right at your fingertips. Get the fastest local Alerts and comprehensive 10 day forecasts wherever you are. Its hyperlocal real time customizable alerts make sure the weather never takes you by surprise, so you can plan every day with confidence. Download the free Weather Bug app from the App Store today and start getting accurate weather forecasts 24.

7 hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Hunts, Nerds, Pillsbury, Lowry's, Breyers, Quaker and Culture Pop. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions

at CVS it matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night, and we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and yeah, healthy snack. At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location Flag football

[iFlag Announcer]

is exploding and iflag is leading the way as the Guinness World Record Holder. Iflag has hosts premier flag football tournaments nationwide for boys, girls, high school girls and adults. From first time players to elite competitors, iflag delivers top level competition, unforgettable experiences and a community built around the game. Ready to be part of it? Join the movement, find your tournament and learn [e-mail] that's iflag.org this is an iHeart podcast.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Guaranteed Human.