Straightio Rewind: "Prolonged Divorce" w/ Torrey Peters (April 29, 2025)

Summary

StraightioLab: “Straightio Rewind: Prolonged Divorce” w/ Torrey Peters

Podcast: StraightioLab
Hosts: George Civeris & Sam Taggart
Guest: Torrey Peters (author, “Detransition, Baby” & “Stag Dance”)
Release Date: May 15, 2026 (recorded earlier as a “classic” re-release)
Main Theme: Interrogating straight culture—this episode spotlights the concept of “prolonged divorce” as a defining straight phenomenon, explored through a lively, self-aware, and highly referential conversation between two queer hosts and celebrated trans novelist Torrey Peters.

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Episode Overview

This “Rewind” episode revisits a classic StraightioLab conversation, where George and Sam—smart, sardonic comedians obsessed with decoding the quirks and codes of straight society—invite Torrey Peters to unpack prolonged divorce as a distinctly straight tradition. Along the way, they riff on lesbian stereotypes, authorial branding, the horniness of literary fiction, internet backlash cycles, and what distinguishes gay from straight marriages and divorces. The episode moves fluidly from laughter to incisive cultural critique, with Peters’ wit and candor keeping things grounded and fresh.

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Key Sections & Discussion Points

1. Opening Banter: Recapping Recent Shows & Lesbian Topics

[03:33–10:43]

• George and Sam reminisce about their intense “Lesbiolab” live show (all queer women, lesbian topics).
• Lesbian topics included: self-cancellation via small business, “hats” as queer signifiers, porn as a lesbian export (“pizza is to Italy as porn is to lesbians”).
  • Quote [05:04, George]: “She was saying lesbian porn is the cultural export... like the poster of two women kissing that guys have in their dorms.”
• Reflection on lesbian stereotypes, (the U-haul joke), and the difference between queer and straight social performances.
• George’s theory: “The concept of the big moment is a straight thing. The more queer sensibility is that it’s just all a performance...” [09:10]
  • Sam agrees, invoking “life is a cabaret.”
• Andrea Long Chu was set to present “hands as a lesbian topic”—Peters confirms, “I think it was a sex thing.” [10:51]

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2. Welcoming Prestigious Guest Torrey Peters

[10:44–16:34]

• Extensive fawning over Peters’ literary prestige and new book, “Stag Dance.”
• Peters discusses author photo anxiety—how to “blend in” on a book tour to avoid bad Italian paparazzi, uniform white suit/press photo culture.
  • Torrey [12:39]: “I want everybody to use my press photos... especially Italian photographers love taking awful photos of me.”
• Fashion as branding vs. blending in—and the necessity of false starts when entering a “new era” (cowboy, suit, etc.).
  • “You have to make at least three missteps first.” —Sam [14:46]

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3. On Book Tour Life & Painful Interview Clichés

[15:36–19:28]

• Book tour is fun, but “You get tired of yourself... people want the greatest hits.”
• The curse of interviews: everyone asks the same things or “the question you wish someone would ask.”
• Torrey [19:14]: “People are very proud to have not asked about trans issues. I feel that so heavily... so I oftentimes will just break and be like, ‘I’m trans.’”

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4. “Straight Shooters” Segment: Rapid-Fire Quiz & Playful Subversion

[31:55–36:11]

• Classic rapid-fire, this/that questions to test “complicity in straight culture.”
• Torrey breaks the rules by asking for clarification on “Tuvelou”—sparking a meta debate about rewarding/punishing rule-breaking.
  • Quote [35:09, Sam]: “A wise man once said cruelty is the G spot—you did that to us.”
• Torrey’s score: “335 doves” out of 1000 (with exchange for “blades of grass”).

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5. Main Topic: “Prolonged Divorce” as Peak Straightness

[36:24–44:08]

• Torrey’s theory: “You don’t know if you’re in a gay marriage or a straight marriage until you get divorced. The more prolonged the divorce, the straighter the marriage.” [36:24]
  • Sam: “The queer thing is being like, ‘I don’t care, take my possessions—just go.’”
  • Torrey: “I think it’s like, you just can’t let go because you’re so hetero in your thing—one person knows how the stove works, the other drains the sink... so you just drag it out forever.” [37:08]
• George expands: the “buy-in” to the marriage institution makes the break more painful/violent; for some, protracted divorces expose internalized straightness in even queer relationships.
• “There’s a spectrum of straight to gay marriage within gay marriage.” —George [39:42]
• Non-finality as queer: “When gay people break up, they’re still getting lunch every three months.” —Sam [42:11]
• Finality as straight trait (“because it’s so grave they’ll do anything to avoid it”).

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6. Divorce in Literature & Shifts in Cultural Attitudes

[44:08–47:46]

• Discussion of the rise in “divorce literature,” especially by women.
• Peters: Dedicates first novel to divorcees; once romanticized the shared experience, but now sees it as “a little bit naive”—“You can understand trans people... but it’s not going to make anything better.” [45:16]
• The hope that “divorce is a transition” (like gender) is now passé; “something more needs to happen.”

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7. Emilia Perez, Internet Backlash, and Representation Politics

[47:57–54:39]

• Brief, spoiler-filled discussion of the film Emilia Perez and the cyclical, numbing nature of trans “backlash” discourse.
• George: “Backlash is almost manufactured by CIS people who are guilty about watching it... imagining a mob of angry trans people.” [48:05]
• The ever-accelerating “microdosing” of culture wars: “No one cares enough either to be empowered, or angry, about it.” —George [48:58]
• Four-tweet ‘backlashes’ and conspiracy that most outrage is manufactured, not real.

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8. A New Lynchian Frontier? Discord Gooning & Digital Cultures of Horniness

[61:05–67:33]

• What’s the “postmodern depraved phenomenon” for the contemporary David Foster Wallace?
  • Peters suggests: Discord gooning—online masturbation “marathons” in niche digital communities (“fetish discords”), as a new cultural frontier. [63:18]
  • Torrey [64:45]: “You sign into your discord... you’re in voice channels, breaking each other’s brains, just masturbating for hours on Adderall.”
• Sam observes this contemporary “horniness as religion” exceeds what IRL could provide; the internet is producing ever more specific, overwhelming kinks and rituals.
  • “I want Barbara Kingsolver to do this... uncover the Big Goon!” —Torrey [66:49]
• Riffs: Many “sex-positive” writers would wilt at facing this subculture; most would “cower at the sight of the Big Goon.” [67:17]

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9. Prolonged Divorce: The Four-Month Rule

[67:50–68:54]

• Peters sets a concrete bar: “Divorce should be a four month process—if you finish in four months, it was a gay marriage. Anything after, it’s a straight marriage.” [68:03]
• Angelina Jolie/Brad Pitt named as the “archetypal straight American couple,” whose long divorce process proves the rule. (Finalized Dec. 2024.)

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10. Shout-Outs Segment

[71:51–77:59]

• Sam: Music hitting differently by city (LA = Haim, NY = Oklou).
• George: Merrell shoes — “so endlessly reappropriated, they’re beyond signification.”
• Torrey: Nautical décor — realization that she’d been eating in a “yacht club” restaurant, and the kitschy cycle of seashell bathrooms and New England buoys.
  • “It’s time for some shells around the mirror.” —Torrey [77:22]

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Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• Torrey [19:14]: “People are so proud they haven’t asked about trans issues. I feel that so heavily… usually, I just break and say: I’m trans.”
• Sam [35:09]: “A wise man once said cruelty is the G spot—you did that to us.”
• Torrey [36:24]: “You don’t know if you’re in a gay marriage or a straight marriage until you get divorced... The more prolonged the divorce, the straighter.”
• George [39:42]: “There is a spectrum of straight to gay marriage within gay marriage.”
• Torrey [63:22]: “I want a serious writer to take on Discord gooning...”
• Torrey [68:03]: “From proposing your divorce to filing it, four months is reasonable. If you go past that, you’re in a straight marriage.”
• Sam [54:46]: “We’re a C’est la vie-based podcast nowadays.”

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Tone & Language

• Playful & irreverent: Jokes pile atop jokes—meta-commentary on their own interview style (“dumb questions”), and constant deconstruction of “straight” versus “queer” cultural moves.
• Sardonic but insightful: Riffing on serious themes (marriage, transition, divorces, horniness) with wit, knowledge, and unpretentious cultural theory.
• Self-aware & reflexive: Panelists frequently examine their own behavior, acknowledging anxieties and foibles.

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Detailed Timestamps of Key Segments

• 03:33–10:43 — Lesbian Live Show Recap & Stereotypes
• 10:44–16:34 — Author Branding, Fashion, Book Tour Life
• 19:14 — Torrey on “trans questions” in interviews
• 31:55–36:11 — “Straight Shooters” Segment (quiz + meta banter)
• 36:24–44:08 — “Prolonged Divorce” Straight Culture Theory
• 44:08–47:46 — Divorce Literature and Cultural Sincerity
• 47:57–54:39 — Emilia Perez, Representation, and Manufactured Backlash
• 61:05–67:33 — Discord Gooning & New Cultural Frontiers
• 68:00–68:54 — The Four-Month Divorce Rule
• 71:51–77:59 — Shout-Outs: Music, Merrells, Nautical Décor

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Conclusion

This episode exemplifies StraightioLab’s blend of high-low discourse, offering listeners sharp insights on gender, sexuality, and cultural rituals through a comic lens. Torrey Peters’ guest-spot delivers sharp, unvarnished wisdom on relationships, the dangers of institutional buy-in, and the slippery boundaries between straight and queer life. Essential listening for fans of witty, meta podcasting and anyone curious about how queerness transforms (and sometimes replicates) the institutions and absurdities of straight culture.

Transcript

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[Sam Taggart]

Hootie hoo. Glamour Girls. You're listening to Studio Lab. Rewind.

[George Severis]

Once a month, we will be re releasing an old classic Strator Lab episode to re familiarize new listeners with the lore that built the podcast. The government cannot shut down because we

[Sam Taggart]

recorded some of these long, long ago. The audio quality may be mixed, but trust the ideas are eternal and dangerous.

[George Severis]

So take out your notebook and open to page one because it's time to start taking notes about the things we've said.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Enjoy the past. Bye. Podcast starts now. What's up, everyone around the globe? You're listening to Stradiolab from a windowless room in Times Square.

[George Severis]

That's right. Welcome to trl.

[Sam Taggart]

Welcome to trl. I can hear NSYNC bumping their new hit downstairs.

[George Severis]

So this is our final day of a full week of Stradiolab content.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. We've been recording nonstop.

[George Severis]

I feel wistful.

[Sam Taggart]

I know.

[George Severis]

We've recorded four episodes. We've done a live show. It was our first ever lesbiolab live show. All Queer woman lineup. And instead of straight topics, they brought lesbian topics.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

And we learned about. I think we can say what the three topics were.

[Sam Taggart]

Say them.

[George Severis]

Okay. Self cancellation. So this is when you are a lesbian and you start a small business, sort of with the intention of being canceled for having bad labor practices.

[Sam Taggart]

You get like one complaint and then decide to go on a. I'm sorry.

[George Severis]

That's right. And it's also like starting a business is actually more of a means to an end. The end being getting a conversation going.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So you want like a Reddit thread. You want people saying, like, thread the truth about, you know, black cat coffee. So that was one. Hats was the second topic. So we learned about flat rim hats and about, hey, mama, lesbians. And about how different hats, the further back in your head a beanie goes, the less queer you are. That is something that was, I think, positive.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that was positive.

[George Severis]

And proven and proven. And then the final topic. Now, this was the most interesting to me.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Do you want to say what it was?

[Sam Taggart]

It was porn. This was Natalie Rotter Lightman, and it was porn as a lesbian export, as pizza is to Italians.

[George Severis]

So she was. Yes, go ahead.

[Sam Taggart]

And so, you know, it's not necessarily always made by Italians, just like lesbian porn isn't always made by lesbians. And yet it's how most people interact with lesbian culture.

[George Severis]

This was fascinating to me. Because I am so, you know, liberal arts pilled that I thought the topic was like, feminist.

[Sam Taggart]

I have to say your Ivy League education was showing pejorative.

[George Severis]

I was.

[Sam Taggart]

It was very. I have to say, it was like rich. It was sort of. It was Kamala coated.

[George Severis]

Okay, thank you for the class analysis. First of all, I really appreciate it. I appreciate it. And I'm self canceling in a lesbian way for my privilege.

[Sam Taggart]

Because when I heard porn as our greatest sex poor, I said, I know exactly what you're talking about.

[George Severis]

No, and in retrospect, I completely understand what she was saying. She was saying the sort of male gays lesbian porn. Literally the poster of two women kissing that guys have in their dorms. Yeah. That is like.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, that's like an artful version,

[George Severis]

a cultural export of lesbianism.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

That people from all communities can understand. What I heard was like, you know, sort of queer, non binary porn where then all the performers also give a talk at Oberlin. And then the talk is like. And then there's like people asking questions at the talk, and they're like holding space.

[Sam Taggart]

It was really funny. You were like, oh, porn stars. You know, like people that do talks at colleges and universities. And I was like, I really don't think that's what it is. Yeah, but I love that it's a beautiful. It's a beautiful perspective that you bring.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And you know what? That also is a lesbian cultural export. It's just as like a less successful one because it hasn't really reached the heights of the sort of more male, gazy lesbian porn.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. It was in the pizza metaphor. You were forgetting sort of about Domino's.

[George Severis]

I was thinking more like Roberta's kind of a hot honey and sage pizza. Whereas Natalie was saying, like, pepperoni.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I want to say.

[George Severis]

And I do want to actually shout out. So our friend Andrea Long Chu was supposed to do the show, ended up not being able to make it. But her topic was gonna be hands as a lesbian topic, which I think is so rich.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, it's very rich. And I would love to know where she was coming from.

[Tori Peters]

Do you.

[George Severis]

But you, like, get.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I get that they have hands.

[George Severis]

No, but it's like, you know, hands are much more of an important part of lesbian sex. I think is where it's coming from.

[Sam Taggart]

Marge, we're in Times Square

[George Severis]

and like, as a. It's like hands. I think this is what she was going for, hands as a sex organ.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, well, we'll have to ask because I don't want to make assumptions. Because I don't know. Yeah, maybe that's not what she was going for.

[George Severis]

Okay. Maybe I'm once again thinking too academically,

[Sam Taggart]

you know, maybe she was like, lesbians work with their hands.

[George Severis]

Oh, that's also probably true.

[Sam Taggart]

You know, who knows? It could be anything.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm not here to make assumptions. I'm here to listen.

[George Severis]

We were being so respectful and open minded last night, but we had one like cheap joke that we did with a U haul, which by the way.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I'm ready to be defensive.

[George Severis]

Uh oh, here she goes.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm ready to be defensive. We put the U haul joke in the slideshow.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Because we were like, it's time to talk about classic stereotypes. Classic stereotypes.

[George Severis]

But then all three of them were like, jesus Christ, you guys.

[Sam Taggart]

They're like, why would you put this in? And I was like, because I'm curious how you think about. About classic stereotypes. Because gay guy stereotype, it is like, it's both embarrassing and annoying and true.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And so I'm like, how do you guys feel about it?

[George Severis]

Ye.

[Sam Taggart]

But C' est la vie.

[George Severis]

C' est la vie.

[Sam Taggart]

I wanna say that as our string of records in New York comes to a near close.

[George Severis]

That's right.

[Sam Taggart]

I feel a little bit. I have that thing where I'm like, did I say everything?

[George Severis]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

And even though we still have two recordings today, I think back and I'm like, you know when a little kid is really excited to do their dance for the parents and then the parents are like, okay, dance. And they don't move at all. Yeah. I feel like that's what I did. I feel like I was like, I'm so excited to fucking show them everything I've got. And then as soon as they're like, okay, we're recording. I'm like, so do you guys like blue or green?

[George Severis]

Don't you think though that the concept of the big moment is like a straight thing? And actually the more queer sensibility is that it's just all a performance.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that's your theory of life is a cabaret, right?

[George Severis]

It's like life is a cabaret.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

It's not that life is preparation for the big cabaret.

[Sam Taggart]

The stage doesn't end when the stage does not end.

[George Severis]

Exactly. So it's like the director yells, cut. That doesn't mean you're like, fuck, I didn't do what I was gonna do. It's like, I'm going to do it now. I don't give a shit if the cameras are going to catch It.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I think that's true.

[George Severis]

We have to bring in our guest because we are absolutely edging her, as always.

[Sam Taggart]

As always. This is truly exciting.

[George Severis]

I'm really excited.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm excited. I'm nervous. I feel that, you know, we have prestigious guests sometimes, by the way.

[George Severis]

All the time.

[Sam Taggart]

All the time.

[George Severis]

We are. We love having prestigious guests and they love doing the podcast. Let's start. I just want to start there. It's actually, like, very common and not

[Sam Taggart]

to be sort of Animal Farm coded, but some prestigious guests are more prestigious than others.

[George Severis]

That's true. And I would say this one's, like in the top tier of being prestigious.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. And so while all are prestigious, some are more prestigious than others. And this is our most prestigious.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Okay. Well, you know her from her debut smash hit novel, Detransition Baby. You know her from her new book, Stag Dance, and you know her as the guest of this episode of Straighter Lab. Please welcome Tori Peters.

[Tori Peters]

Hi.

[Sam Taggart]

Hi. What did you think of our intro? Be honest.

[Tori Peters]

I was very interested in your interpretations of lesbian culture.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I could see you. We were really, like, torturing you because we were saying all these things that we want your.

[Tori Peters]

I wanted to, like, jump in on it. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Okay. Thoughts?

[Tori Peters]

Well, I think you're correct about hands.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

You think it was a sex.

[George Severis]

That's what.

[Tori Peters]

Sex thing? Yeah, I think it was a sex thing. I don't think. I don't think anyone's going to be offended by that. You don't have to self cancel.

[Sam Taggart]

I have to say it was as I'm currently, you know, we unpack the podcast as we record the podcast. That's part of it. As I sit in the middle seat, I was finding myself not able to look at you for approval reactions. So I had no. The whole time, I was really flying blind.

[George Severis]

Troy was being very supportive.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. I was like, thumbs up.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big smile. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

It's really helpful to know because I was like, what if we're bombing? And I can't know.

[Tori Peters]

I was wondering why you weren't making eye contact, pointedly ignoring me.

[Sam Taggart]

I was really focused in on George.

[George Severis]

And then what do you think about generally self cancellation? Like the idea that the lesbian small businesses started.

[Tori Peters]

I do. I mean, I. As you were saying that, I was like, oh, actually that is something that I think about. Like this. I'm wearing this jacket, for instance, and it's. I don't know if the owner of the company is a lesbian. I don't want to assume, but there's Something kind of lesbian. Kamala, about the marketing of this. That's an Arjun jacket.

[George Severis]

What was the marketing of it?

[Tori Peters]

I know. Well, actually, Kamala I think is one of their. I think so. Like, a pink power suit. And I was like, I want. I want exactly that to be like, I want to blend in on my book tour. So I got like. I was like. I asked some. Some fashion, like, what should I get? And they're like, well, this is the. This is the thing in which nobody will have an opinion about your suit

[George Severis]

jacket blend in, being like, yeah, you don't want to be marked as, like, anything. Okay.

[Tori Peters]

I want, like, nobody to notice it.

[George Severis]

I'm sorry, but is your T shirt. Does your t shirt say T4T?

[Tori Peters]

It does.

[George Severis]

And you don't want to be. You don't want to be marked as other in any way.

[Tori Peters]

That was a mistake. That was an addressing Erro today. Yeah. No, but I felt like I want everybody to use my press photos, basically. I have good press photos, and I found if I wore interesting clothing my last tour, it would be like, these terrible candids that for whatever reason, especially Italian photographers love taking awful photos of me.

[Sam Taggart]

There is a conspiracy. Photographers want you to.

[Tori Peters]

I was just chased by, like, untalented Italian photographers taking terrible candidates and then doing SEO optimization on their terrible pictures. Wow. And I think it was cause they were like, oh, this is a different outfit than the press outfit than the press photos. So we'll do this.

[Sam Taggart]

They felt like they were being unique.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, exactly. So now I want to wear something that's, like, super bland. And if you were like, what's a good photo? They go with my press photo that is just available rather than, you know, bland in my. A bland, terrible candidate.

[George Severis]

I did notice that in the photo on the jacket of the book, you are wearing a white pantsuit.

[Tori Peters]

I got rid of that one in the second printing.

[George Severis]

Okay. You are five steps ahead of us. Wait, so you thought that. Because that, to me, is very, like, Hillary Clinton meets, like, Annette Bening doing actors on actors.

[Tori Peters]

Yes, that was kind of what I was going for. And there's such a history of writers wearing white suits like Tom Wolf and. Well, Steve Martin's not really.

[George Severis]

Yeah, no, Tom Wolf, Steve Martin.

[Tori Peters]

Those are my two lodestars in dressing. But I was like, yeah, I think this is, like, going to be my suit era. But I've had to, like, have a couple of, like, restarts on what I want the suit to do.

[George Severis]

Okay, so then what is the new photo?

[Tori Peters]

The new photo is going to be my bland suit. I want to switch it up. I mean, it's a good photo of me, but you don't really even notice the suit. You know, that one is very suitable.

[George Severis]

That one you notice. Yeah, it's like what you're wearing.

[Tori Peters]

You're doing a suit thing in the photo and I'm sort of secondary to the suit.

[Sam Taggart]

You're bringing up something I find really interesting, which is when you're launching sort of a new personal era, you have to make at least three missteps first. Yeah, like I've been trying to go cowboy and I'm not doing it today. But I was like, I leaned in way too hard at first. I was like, I'm going full cowboy. Like I'm wearing like Wranglers cowboy boots. Tucking the shirt in, wearing the belt. And then it was like, it was like confusing. You had to pull back on and then I had to pull back and like, you can wear one.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

You can't do full cowboy. It's silly.

[Tori Peters]

I feel that way about, about the white suit. I mean, I'll do that very occasionally. I think it's like. But I think it's like the first printing is a white suit and then we, we pull back.

[Sam Taggart]

Pull back.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

You got to see how far you can go.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Take one thing off.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. But that was like the. I think they were like, we're doing a reprint. And I was like, I have a new author photo.

[Sam Taggart]

Does the idea of a book tour is that stressful or fun?

[Tori Peters]

It's. It's fun for the first three weeks and then you're. It's not so much that it's stressful. You're tired of yourself.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure.

[Tori Peters]

Like, you get sort of. People want the greatest hits, you know, but like the greatest hits for you are like three jokes and like two ideas and then you're like. And then if you deviate actually from it, it's usually the terrible nights is when you, when you think like, oh, I have a great new idea that I'm going to try out with this audience and it's like, that was a bad idea.

[George Severis]

Isn't it also a self perpetuating thing where like the people that are interviewing you do their research, hear what you said in other interviews and then they're like, we heard when you were a kid you had a favorite doll that you played with. And so then you have to tell the story again and again and again.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, that's so interesting. I also realized, talking about the podcast, while we make the podcast, me asking is it fun or boring to go on book tour was so, like, little

[George Severis]

kid reporter, you're doing, like, Nickelodeon, like, news for kids on Nickelodeon.

[Sam Taggart]

So what's your favorite candy? Like, it was so.

[Tori Peters]

But that was. This is like, that what you were just saying in the intro, the big moment where you're like, do you like blue? Or, you know, it's like you're just doing it. This is part of the process now you're doing it. And I relate to it because when I was like, eight years old, I got a chance to interview Jane, Jane Goodall, the famous primatologist. And I panicked and I said, so you like monkeys? And it was like, exactly this. It was like. I had thought about it, like, this is going to be my moment. This is going to be. And that's just what came out, you know. So, yeah, book tour is kind of sometimes boring.

[Sam Taggart]

I have found that as an interviewer, you know, my. My childlike wonder can be really charming, but as an interviewer, it can also be quite confusing. I think it's sort of like, what are we doing here? You know?

[George Severis]

But I sort of think. I think someone being interviewed, ultimately, not to project this onto you, but generally speaking, someone being interviewed just wants to talk about what they want to talk about.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure.

[George Severis]

And so giving them the most, like, nothing question is, like, the best thing you can do because then they can just, like, monologue.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, that's the advanced interviewing.

[George Severis]

It's just super. So what we've learned so far is don't do your research because you will ask the same questions. And in fact, don't ask questions because that is boxing the interviewee in.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, I felt. I felt your first ones were really

[George Severis]

constraining to me totally.

[Tori Peters]

Whereas fun or no was like, well, this is my moment to just monologue the words.

[Sam Taggart]

The word fun is so funny to ask an author. So is writing fun?

[George Severis]

Okay, here's a final stupid question for you.

[Sam Taggart]

I have a second final stupid question.

[George Severis]

We're doing such a good job.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Okay. So my question for you is. I'm sure people are asking a lot of annoying questions. So my question for you is, what is the question you wish someone would ask you that no one ever would?

[Tori Peters]

Let me tell you, that question I get every time, George.

[Sam Taggart]

I was gonna not to be a bitch. I was about to say, I bet she gets like, really?

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. And then it's really hard because I'm like. I'm like, well, that question is actually a very common one. And then also you have to, like, come up each time with A new question that. That. Because. Well, last time that I got asked this question, which was, you know, a few days ago, I came up with, like, this is the thing I wish that somebody would ask me. And then, like, by the end, you're just, like, kind of making up, like, random. Like, I wish people would ask me about my shoes. More like, because. No, because of that specific question.

[George Severis]

I have a theory. Maybe this is complet. Do you think it's because people are, like, uncomfortable with asking about big quotes, trans issues, that they don't want to say the wrong thing, and so then they want you to tell them what to say?

[Tori Peters]

Maybe that's it. There's two things that happens. And the other thing that happens is that people are very proud to have not asked about trans issues for an entire interview. So. But, like, the. How proud they are that, like, we've only talked about writing in this interview. Like, I don't even care that you're trans. Feel that so heavily. And, like, as. As they're, like, getting to the end, and it's like. And. And you've also only talked about writing, and we're kind of waiting for you to bring it up. But also we're proud that we never brought it up is like, that. That, like, slowly pressurizes that, like, standoff, you know, that you're. That I'm in. And so I oftentimes will just break and be like, I'm trans.

[George Severis]

It's like Chekoffs. Chekhov's gender. Chekhov's trans representation. It's like, is it gonna be brought up?

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[George Severis]

Okay, so what was your stupid question? And then we'll go into smart.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, this is the smart part. Then we'll go into the smart section. I love the book. You know, I was. I think I didn't expect how horny it would be, to be honest.

[Tori Peters]

Really?

[Sam Taggart]

I was so. I thought it was so horny.

[Tori Peters]

I would agree, but I felt. Did you read my first book? Yes, we did. That was, like, not an entire.

[Sam Taggart]

On here. I'd be like, no, but you.

[George Severis]

I did read.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Tori Peters]

But no, that's interesting, because I feel like the first book was hornier. Like, you know, like, she gets, like, a ribbon tied around her junk. I mean, maybe. Maybe you were just like, that was sad. I did not like it.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't like the stag dance in particular. Like, the biggest big oaf guy, like, being, like. Being like, treat me as the woman. Yeah. I was like, yeah. Yeah. That's, like, so hot.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. I mean, I do you think it

[George Severis]

was just the horniness that, like, you related to more than the type of

[Sam Taggart]

horniness that I related to more. I was like, literally, I was like, oh, this is why I like to hook up with bi guys, because they're like, treat me like the woman they're so.

[Tori Peters]

And then it's so, like. Like, they're so titillated and excited by, like, look what I'm doing now. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

So. And then my dumb question was, do you. Writing is the horniest medium?

[George Severis]

Yeah. Rank them all the.

[Sam Taggart]

Rank the mediums from horniest to least horny.

[Tori Peters]

If it is horny, it's like a masturbatory horny. It's like a very. Like, you're, like, alone kind of pleased with yourself, you know, in what you're like, I did it. Ooh, I liked it. You know, like, that's the. The scene maybe that you're thinking about in the lumberjack thing where. Where the babe, Bunyan, the. The oafish lumberjack, is hooking up with his boss in, like, a shanty. I wrote that one that day, and I was like. I don't know if I was like, maybe it was a little turned on, but I'm also just, like, like, so smugly pleased with myself that there was something very masturbatory about my emotions that day that was like, I left that day of writing as though I had just, like, taken Adderall and, like, gone into, like, a porn wormhole for six hours.

[Sam Taggart]

Are you ever like, okay, this is too horny. I have to pull back. Like, it's not. It's too horn. It's too hot?

[Tori Peters]

No, like, usually. Usually, if it is that, then I am happy. And it's like, maybe in later edits. But anything that's too much, I like to sit with the too much for a while and have somebody else tell me made them uncomfortable.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I loved it. I felt like a lot of the horniness I was relating to and the sort of being like. Like, why am I doing this? And then being like, but I can't stop.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. I mean, that, for me, is like, the kind of horniest side. Like, the confusing horniness, I think is like a go to both. Something I go to, I guess, emotionally confused horniness. I'm just very comfortable there. And I also think it's like, I like characters who actually don't totally understand what's happening to them, you know? And I feel like horniness is a. It is something that, like, happens to you sometimes rather than, like, something you do. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Yeah. It's a curse and it's terminal.

[Sam Taggart]

There are times when I've done like, I'm walking to do something and I'm like, turn around, turn around. Don't do this. And it's like, but I have to. I won't rest until I go do this.

[Tori Peters]

I'm too horny.

[Sam Taggart]

I have to put my life in danger to go do this.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

No, it really feels like you're in train spotting, but instead of heroin. It's horniness.

[Sam Taggart]

It's not right.

[George Severis]

Yeah. There's also, I think, similarly with how your characters deal with their horniness. I also think the way they deal with their own cruelty is kind of in the same. They almost can't help it and can't understand where it's coming from. And they're half conscious of it and they're almost just conscious enough to feel guilty and self loathing about it.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. I think we've entered the smart, smart question portion of the, of the interview.

[George Severis]

It's like, are you. Yeah. Was that something like, was the almost like the relationship between cruelty and horniness something that was in your mind?

[Tori Peters]

Well, I think cruelty is very intimate.

[George Severis]

Right.

[Tori Peters]

Like, I think that like when you don't know somebody and you do something like awful to them, that's just like sort of brutality. But that like when you know somebody and you like, know their like, vulnerabilities and their. And like, like the, like the soft parts of them and then you like, kind of can't help yourself maybe because, like, you know them so well and you're just so like frustrated or irritated or annoyed that you just like go for those vulnerable areas. I mean, that's very intimate. Right? To know somebody. So. So in all their soft parts. So I think that like. And that's exactly kind of what you want to know if you're horny too. So there is like the cruelty and the horniness.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh my God.

[George Severis]

Cruelty is finding the emotional G spot.

[Tori Peters]

Yes, exactly. I'm going to borrow for when I go on tour, going to the uk. I think that'll. They'll love it.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[George Severis]

Yeah. You were telling me that I. You know what? You're gonna have a lovely time in London. Go to the West End, see some plays. What a time.

[Sam Taggart]

The other thing, this is more, more of a reflection of my stupidity rather than a question. Okay.

[George Severis]

Our confidence is really coming through as interviewers.

[Sam Taggart]

You know that meme.

[Tori Peters]

It's a good start. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

You know that meme. That' me as someone who has only seen Trolls 2 World Tour watching, you know, the Godfather. Wow. This is just like trolls 2 world tour. I feel like the only, like, books that I've read like, that are about, like, hard, like, fiction books about gender are like, Ursula K. Le Guin. So the whole time I was like, especially, like, the first story, I was like, wow, this is just like, Ursula K. Le Guin.

[Tori Peters]

I will take it. I mean, as opposed to Trolls too, if you're like, this is just like, trolls2world tarot. Like, Ursula Le Guin. Absolutely. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I was. I liked. I felt like it was fun that you were going so big and, like, sci fi with it. Like.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. So, like, I was. I. I wanted to do. The premise for people who haven't read it is it's. Each piece is, like, in a different genre. And. And that one, the first one is like a speculative fiction dystopian one about, like, a gender apocalypse. But I think it was also, like, that was the first one that I wrote. And it. I think I was like. It was like 2016 and, like, last of Us, the video game come out. It was like the Road and All Stars thing. And I was like, what genre is Everybody into in 2016? And it was kind of. Yeah, like, grimy. Grimy post apocalyptic stuff. Whereas, like, now I think I would. I would never do, like, a pandemic.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, right.

[George Severis]

Oh, so that was written pre pandemic. I'm sure you've talked about this, but it was written pre pandemic.

[Tori Peters]

It was pre pandemic. Yeah. Which, like, I think is. People are always like, why don't you expand that one into a full novel? And it's like, I don't think you want me to do that. Like, I think you've kind of gone through it yourself.

[George Severis]

Totally, totally. Although we were saying how now it's been long enough. Actually, Hari was saying this, right. Someone was saying, like, it's now been long enough that people are craving narratives about 2020. Not just the pandemic, but, like, even. Just, like, where the culture was in 2020 and how we were all so unmoored from reality because we were, you know, just, like, undergoing this, like, insane experience altogether, but also alone.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So I'm almost like, it's like, to pick something like that back up now or even in, like, another three years.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, I mean, I felt actually, like the other day when Trump announced all of his tariffs, like, and I felt the world kind of stopped for, like, a day. I had like, a real, like, what does this feel like? What does this feel like? And then I was like, oh, it feels like March 2020 where everyone's like, is the economy crashing? Do I have a job? Like, should I stockpile, like fill up my bathtub or whatever weird we were doing in 2020. Yeah, I had like a real like, I called it like a snow day. Like, I don't know, whatever it was last week was like a. It was like a pandemic snow day where I was like is the world over and. And I kind of wish that like, yeah, that that had there had been like more culture about that weird feeling because I feel like apparently we're gonna just keep on having.

[George Severis]

Well, that's the thing. I think we have been like microdosing March 2020. It's like every few days you just go through like a less intense version of it and it's like shorter and more painful rather than this long drawn out thing. Okay, I'm like so eager to get into the topic. We should do our first segment.

[Sam Taggart]

Let's do our first.

[George Severis]

Okay, Tori.

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[George Severis]

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[George Severis]

Sam, do you want to Our first

[Sam Taggart]

segment is called Straight Shooters and in this segment we're going to ask you a series of rapid fire questions to gauge your familiarity with and complicity in straight culture. It's basically this thing or this other thing and the only rule is you can't ask any follow up questions or

[Tori Peters]

we'll scream at you. You can I ask a pre question?

[Sam Taggart]

I think that might be a follow up question. And while you I wanted to say yes to I have to be no. Honest and real.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I, I also was tempted to say yes because I was like, well, she's an author.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I was like

[Tori Peters]

I'm putting as much gravitas as I can to get away with to to break the rules of your podcast. Start.

[George Severis]

Okay, we'll start simple. Being the goat or sinking a boat.

[Tori Peters]

Sinking a boat.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. A dream come true or a steaming pot of stew.

[Tori Peters]

A steaming pot of stew.

[George Severis]

Design within reach or a headline that says impeach.

[Tori Peters]

I like design within reach.

[Sam Taggart]

A task that's Sisyphusian or a rash that's Syphilisian.

[Tori Peters]

Oh, probably a task that's sufficient. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Okay. Being queer and in stem or drinking beer but being femme.

[Tori Peters]

Ooh. Oh wow. I'm gonna say drinking beer and being femme.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Okay. Lou Tuve Lou or Mama Roof.

[Tori Peters]

What was the middle one? Tuvelou I don't know what that is.

[Sam Taggart]

Toblo's actual pronouncing of the name.

[Tori Peters]

You answered a follow up. Got you, got you.

[Sam Taggart]

We're having a constitutional Crisis.

[George Severis]

This is 2020 all over again.

[Sam Taggart]

People are hitting the streets.

[Tori Peters]

Well, obviously not Juve Lou.

[George Severis]

Let's see, which one do I want to do? The Taming of the Shrew or defaming Lucy Liu?

[Tori Peters]

Defaming Lucy Liu.

[Sam Taggart]

Face card never declines or. Oh my God, that's Ralph Fiennes.

[Tori Peters]

I like Ralph Fiennes. I'm excited to see Ralph Fiennes. Oh, my God, that's Ralph Fiennes.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm actually excited to see Ralph Fiennes as well. Whenever I see him, I'm like, wow, that's Ralph Fiennes. Yeah. And also there's, you know what Ralph Fiennes is to me? You know how people, when you know how to say Loewe, right. You get to have like a step up over like 60% of people.

[George Severis]

That's you and Rafe.

[Sam Taggart]

Literally, like, I see that name and I go, I know how to say that.

[George Severis]

Okay, so give.

[Sam Taggart]

Because it's not spelled like that.

[George Severis]

It's spelled Ralph, but it's Rafe.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. It's spelled Ralph Fiennes. And you say Rafines Raf Fiennes.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. You're in the know. Yeah.

[George Severis]

So, Jory, we rank each guest's performance on a scale of 0 to 1000 doves and. Or 0 to 1000 blades of grass.

[Sam Taggart]

Blades of grass.

[George Severis]

We haven't decided based on. Based on two Lady Gaga songs.

[Sam Taggart]

Two Lady Gaga songs.

[George Severis]

I have to say, here's what I'm struggling with. I'm like, do we reward the boldness of asking a follow up question because she beat us at her own game or do we punish because. Because she did the one thing that is.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, you know, I believe a wise man once said that cruelty is the G spot. So I. Oh my God, you did that to us.

[George Severis]

You, like found. You found our one weakness and. And used it against us.

[Tori Peters]

I made it pleasurable. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Yeah, literally.

[Sam Taggart]

I think we should punish. Punish.

[George Severis]

Oh, okay. We should punish. Okay. So I would say without the follow up question, it would have been 930 doves.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that's accurate.

[George Severis]

But with the deduction of 600. 600, it's going to go ahead and be 335 doves. I'm so sorry, Tori. That's not a passing score.

[Tori Peters]

But what is that in blades of grass?

[George Severis]

Okay, so there's inflation when it comes to blades of grass. So in terms of blades of grass.

[Tori Peters]

Blades of grass. I get.

[George Severis]

It's closer to like 650.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it's more closer to 650.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Tori Peters]

That's a good. So you can exchange rate.

[George Severis]

You can really pure fries and blades

[Tori Peters]

of like in other countries. I'll do. All right.

[George Severis]

When you're in the uk, you can pay Euro is. Yeah. You're actually somehow making money. Yeah. Suddenly you have more than a thousand.

[Tori Peters]

I'm so glad I did this podcast before I went over.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[Tori Peters]

Hi, horse.

[Sam Taggart]

Should we get another straight topic? I would love to hear. So behind the scenes, George knows the topic, I do not. And I'm so excited to hear what straight topic is and what's.

[George Severis]

So

[Tori Peters]

it's a working theory, but my straight topic is prolonged divorce. And my theory is that you don't know if you're in a gay marriage or a straight marriage until you get divorced. And it's how long, how prolonged your divorce is that determines how gay or straight your marriage is.

[George Severis]

And the more prolonged, the straighter the

[Tori Peters]

straighter it is, the more prolonged your marriage. And it doesn't really matter your gender. You're how you identify. It's like, it's like when you don't know and then you get divorced and if it goes on like two years up, you were in a straight marriage the whole time.

[Sam Taggart]

Because the queer thing is being like, I don't. I take my possessions, I don't care.

[Tori Peters]

Like, no, I don't think it's even like that. Like, I think, like. But I think it's like, I think it's like you just can't let go. And I think it's like, you can't let go because, like, of you're just like, have ended up very hetero in your thing where, like, one person knows how to cook. One person knows where, like the, the drain on the sink is and you can't leave each other because you're like, how am I going to drain the sink without this person? How am I going to turn on the stove or do all these things? And so you just, you just, you dried out forever. And because I'm. I'm 43 now and I'm. I'm like, I had one round of. Well, I divorced myself, but like a round of divorces with like, age 30 and now, now. And I think it was mostly like queer ish. People who were getting divorced at 30, where they were like, usually discovering they were queer or something and they're like, oh, I gotta go. And now it's like, straight people in my Life in their 40s, and they are just drawing it out for years, and I'm just like. And everything that they do is so straight. Just like, you can just stop this. Just stop it.

[George Severis]

Don't you think it has to do with, like, the more you. You buy into the institution, for lack of a better word, the more violent it is to break it apart. Because it's like, yes. The more you believe in marriage, the more difficult it is to step away from it. Like, you have literally. It's all been leading to that.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. And I think that's actually what drives me crazy about this is like, every, like, just get away from each other. Like, just. You don't need this. Like, you'll be happier. And, like. And they just can't see it. They can't see that, like, it needs to end. You're torturing each other. And there's something like, I'm just like. Just like this. What is happening is like, straightness is torturing you all rather than, you know, even each other are torturing each other. And I've noticed that actually, like, again, like, it doesn't even have to be straight people. Like, there's some. Some gay marriage couples that I know where I'm just like, the way you're doing this is like, you've believed in it too much. You've entered into straightness. And I didn't know it the whole time you were together, but now that you're divorcing, I see that you were in a straight marriage all totally.

[George Severis]

I actually, I think more broadly gay. You know, since gay people have been able to get married, there are. There is a spectrum of. On the one side, gay people almost, like, wanting to emulate straight people. Yeah, yeah. And on the other side, being, like, excited to do something new with this new.

[Sam Taggart]

Right.

[George Severis]

You know what I mean? And so it's like, there's a spectrum of straight to gay marriage within gay marriage.

[Tori Peters]

I agree with that.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Tori Peters]

I agree with that. And I mean, I even think, like, you were saying that, like, on a previous show that you had. You had classified. What was it?

[George Severis]

Divorce is lesbian marriage is straight. And, like, staying together without getting divorced is gay male. Because they're like.

[Sam Taggart]

But like, they don't hook up anymore.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Like, staying in an unhappy marriage basically is gay because they're all open, so they don't feel the need to escape because they just like, can escape every night, basically, but just, like, come home and resent their husband. And of course, the classic thing, my favorite Thing when it's a gay couple and they're like in a fight, another person enters the room and one of the husbands goes, oh, look, there's your boyfriend.

[Tori Peters]

That is good. But see, to me, that is like that even. Okay, so if you just take that, like, gay couple not having sex together forever, that is either like the most kind of like, oh, you've like, solved marriage, like, you are like the most enlightened thing. Or it's actually like you are, you have like reverted to such straightness.

[George Severis]

That like, 1950s household. Yeah.

[Tori Peters]

Or even like the Catholic Church like the 1500s. Like, divorce does not exist for you. You just have to live with each other and like, and like, dream one day of like, how could we possibly separate? It's unthinkable. God does not allow it.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Tori Peters]

You know, and it's like, that's the straightest. The straightest you could possibly be be is two gay men living together.

[Sam Taggart]

No, literally, it is interesting. It is always like, obviously there's no right answer, but I'm sort of like, is that better? Like, there's so many guys where I am like, could you just break up? Like, let's call would be so much better if you just broke up.

[George Severis]

It is interesting how that is almost the default for long term gay guy relationships where then everyone under their breath is like, yeah, they're always like this. It's so good. You know how it is.

[Tori Peters]

And like, even the bickering that just said, oh, there's your boyfriend or whatever, it's like that. You just stage that with like slightly different actors and you're like, oh, this is the most conservative, like, yeah, like British period piece that we're watching, you know?

[George Severis]

Yeah. You know, I'm finding this really interesting because. Okay, so basically, is finality gay or straight? I think is like a larger question and out of. Go ahead.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I think finality is more straight, to be honest. And I think that's why they make it last longer, because they know when it's over, it's actually over. Whereas when gay people are breaking up, they are like, we are divorced. It's over, but we still get lunch every three months.

[George Severis]

Right, Right. So finality is straight in that there is a gravity to it that straight people are afraid of. They're like, I will do anything but finality.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

Yeah. So, so in their, in their, in their fight against finality, they are like hurting themselves.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. When they could, they could sort of the life is a cabaret thing, you know, Gay people know when the cameras are off. The stage, you're still on stage. And so, you know, when the marriage is over, you're still gonna have a relationship with the person. It's just a different relationship totally. Whereas straight people are like, when the cameras are off, I'm off stage.

[George Severis]

Got it.

[Tori Peters]

But I also think that the willingness to be final would be gay. Like, a willingness to, like, to lean in and be like, I'm breaking ties. I'm. I'm changing everything.

[George Severis]

Well, to make a statement.

[Tori Peters]

Exactly. Like, everything's new about me now. Like, that, that. Is that, that.

[George Severis]

Well, it's like I'm wearing the combo.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that's what I was going to say. They're literally debuting like, a I'm divorced era. And then they're like, actually, I'm pulling back. I'm not fully out.

[George Severis]

Well, there's also something, I think, like, gay people, because they kind of have this reverence for, like, a diva, a straight woman, like a divorcee. I almost think, like, to be divorced is so fabulous, whereas, like, for a sort of, like a straight woman who married her high school sweetheart, it's such a sign of failure.

[Sam Taggart]

It is a real sign of failure. I mean, to be divorced in, like, the Sex and the City universe is fabulous.

[George Severis]

Well, that is, of course, fabulous.

[Sam Taggart]

But I do think in, like, normal world, it can be quite different, difficult.

[George Severis]

What do you think of the recent. And you cannot answer this if you don't want to comment on your peers, but there's been sort of a recent rise in, like, divorce literature. Yeah. Mostly from women, I would say.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

In my experience. Like, what do you think that is about?

[Tori Peters]

Well, it was like. I mean, that was like the Detransition Baby. My first book was dedicated to divorced CIS women.

[George Severis]

Oh, yes, that's right.

[Tori Peters]

So it was like, I felt like I was very much a part of this, like, divorce thing. And like, you know, kind of what I was saying is, like, divorce is a transition in the same way that, like, you know, because you, You. You live your life a certain way and then you. And then you make a decision, and then you have to, like, go forward and. And not get bitter. And also, you can't just, like, go get married again in the same way with the same illusions, otherwise you're going to end up divorced again. And so I was like, oh, like, we can all understand each other. And I. But I feel that this is actually. And so I was like, oh, we can. We can build bridges. We can understand each other. And like, actually, like, you can, like, divorce straight CIS women. You can sort of be trans in a little bit of your way. But this is actually sort of the 2020s culture that. That, like, I feel like maybe Hari was talking about that you were talking about. Like, I feel like that actually, now, to me, feels, like, a little bit naive. Like, this sort of like, oh, we can all just kind of, like, understand and take responsibility for our. For our actions and, like, not lie to each other. Like, I think that that's, like, not true for, like, having watched people that now get divorced, I'm like, oh, no, you're just gonna continue to lie to each other. And to some degree, like, for me, like, watching, like, trans shit over, like, the last four years is like, oh, no, this is like, you can understand trans people. And actually, it's not going to. It's not going to make anything any better. So I'm, like, a little bit, like, down on divorce literature right now. Although I think there's, like, lots of good books that do it. I'm sort of like. It's like, I actually don't want to reread the whole, like, Ferrante series, which, like, in 2000s, if you've been like, do you want to reread Ferrante? I'd be like, any day, all the time. I'll do it. I'm like, actually want, like, more things burned down now than I wanted. Than I wanted.

[George Severis]

Like, so you're sort of. You've turned on divorce as an optimistic act, kind of.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, like, and I don't know what replaces it, but I could sort of like, oh, you can just kind of, like, go through this ritual, take stock of, like, what you want and who you are, and that's gonna be, like, enough to, like, move forward. I, like, don't. At this moment, like, I sort of don't believe it. Like, I feel like, oh, something more than that needs to happen. And in that metaphor of divorce and transition, I also think that it goes across for transition where there was a while where it was like, oh, you just transition, and then you can live your life as you want. It's like, that's not enough anymore.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that was the plot of Emilia Perez.

[George Severis]

That's actually not the plot of Emilia Perez, if you remember the ending. But.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I think. But I think what she's saying is the plot where it's like, you think you can change. Oh, and you're.

[George Severis]

Oh, I see. Oh, the critique is the plot of Emilia Perez. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tori Peters]

And then you. I haven't seen the. I've only watched, like, clips of it. But I understand that somebody walks down a mountain at the end.

[George Severis]

Listen, we can't get in.

[Sam Taggart]

She's gonna go ahead and fall down the mountain and explode.

[George Severis]

Yeah, she explodes.

[Sam Taggart]

It's kind of the best way for any movie to end. And I actually think more movies should end that way.

[George Severis]

It's so complicated. I've spent so much time thinking about Emilia Perez, my problem.

[Tori Peters]

I started watching it on a plane and I was just like, this isn't the. For this movie and for me. And I got. When I started this tour, I got so many. Again, not to be like, so many questions are the same, but I got a lot of, like, what do you think of Emilia Perez? And I was like, halfway through watching on a plane, kind of not understanding what was going on, and I was like, and then I'm gonna go and like a pine about this movie, totally not understanding the edited version of it. So I just. I turned it off and I haven't returned to it.

[George Severis]

I have to say, it's interesting that there's this idea of trans backlash against Emilio Perez, because every trans person I know has opted out of seeing it, and they've been very much like, you know, I'm not at a place where I can watch that right now. Like, it's. I actually think the backlash is almost, like, manufactured by CIS people who are guilty about watching it or something. And then like, imagine an imaginary mob of trans people that are mad at Emilia Perez.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I think there's something to that. The backlash is like. I'm like, okay. Like, it does feel like, what are we doing here?

[George Severis]

It almost reminds me of my favorite topic, which is the women that got sent to space and how we're at a place where, like, something like that, which in 2016 and 2017 would be like, the big news of the day. No one cares enough either to be empowered by it or to be angry about it.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it's just a numbness.

[George Severis]

It's just like a numbness. Like, can't you imagine Imagine, like, a. A time in, like, 2015 where, like, every website would be have, like, a screed about, like, the pitfalls of girl baseries. It's like, no one gives a shit anymore.

[Tori Peters]

No, I mean, it's just like. But it's. It's sort of like, also, like, we've seen this Griff so many times too. It's like we've seen it with, like, a deep water submarine. We've seen it, like, it's that one.

[Sam Taggart]

That one hit, though, that kind of also Ended in an Amelia Pres. Where.

[George Severis]

Yeah, that's true.

[Tori Peters]

I remember that. That. That's if it. I guess if that, if, if they had fallen down a mountain and exploded.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Tori Peters]

That spaceship full of Katy Perry and Gail King and stuff, people would have talked about.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I'm sorry. But if they were committed to sending a message, they should have explored to

[George Severis]

recreating Emilia Perez, then they would have exploded. But I also. It's almost like Amelia Perez is like the trans representation version of women in space for girl bosses, where it's like we've now gone through the conversation and not just trans representation, any kind of. Of like representation politics. We've now gone through the debate of like, is it good, is it bad, is it good, is it bad? So many times that something like Mila Perez comes along and I'm almost just like unable to even form an opinion about it. Yeah, it's like remixing existing arguments that have been had so many times.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Tori Peters]

Including even like the trans backlash, right? Yeah, exactly. Like imagined mob of like somehow trans people who all have the same opinion. It's like you have to. You have not met trans people if you think there's a mob of them that are so somehow in lockstep or like, can even like, not just be like cats, like, batting at each other if you put them together, you know, like, that is. You've. That's imagined. It's a totally imagined situation that they can chant the same thing at the same time.

[George Severis]

This honestly goes back to the lesbian owned business that's doomed to fail. It's like they're not agreeing in those meetings.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, also in, in the. The Massacre, the last story of the book, it was, that was where it was like, this is. Everyone's like, it's a meetup, but everyone's on such a different page.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. I mean, sometimes it's like the. When I talk about that, it's like, it's like we're all kind of. We're all kind of like standing in the same public square, but like, we, we all came from like all four cardinal directions. And if you'd be like, how'd you get here? You'd be like, I came over that hill and I saw a cow. And it's like, I have no idea what journey you took. I have no idea the landmarks on your way. Like, everything you're saying is alien and strange to me. And the only thing that we have is that we're of like standing in like, like a general vicinity. We're not at the Same table. It's like, I see you, like, oh, you had. You're eating ice cream and I'm having a coffee, you know?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it is interesting. I do feel like there's a push to try to like, make it seem like almost like trans people are the like. Like gay guys, where it's like the culture of gay guy is Lady Gaga. And it's like, it does. It's not one to one.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But. But I also think that, like, that ends up being like, the useful thing is that, like, let's. Let's. Let's pretend that all trans people, like, are. Are out here in a mob telling. Telling us what we can or can't say. And it's like they. Yeah, that just. It's not.

[George Severis]

And they were all appointed by Biden, by the way.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, exactly.

[George Severis]

It was Biden appointed the trans mob,

[Sam Taggart]

the head of which was the suitcase dealer. My favorite character.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I remember this one.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, that was a good Biden appointee.

[Sam Taggart]

That was a really good Biden appointee. Yeah, that was like, Biden kind of ate with that one.

[Tori Peters]

Y. That was. That. That. Just laughing. Picturing that person. And picturing also, like, the protests. Like, the way that that person protested. Like, I did steal the suitcase, but,

[Sam Taggart]

like, wearing outfits all over town. So. Genius.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I also. Now there's a thing. I feel very conspiratorial around Internet backlash in general, because it feels like websites are basically like, we need to find four tweets, and then we can say there's a backlash. And, like, it's not a backlash.

[George Severis]

But also, I have become so conspiratorial. I mean, I've become so conspiratorial about literally everything being paid bots, which is. I remember in when people were like, when whatever, like the kind of stereotypical center lib, you know, 50 year old post Trump was like, the Russians. Russian bots. Like, it's Cambridge Analytica. And I was like, oh, God, you guys need to, like, get it together now. I have become that. But for like, a thread that's like, you know, Azealia Banks worst moments. I'm like, someone paid for that thing. Is Blake Lively like, the Blake Lively thing? The only conclusion I drew from that is like, okay, so it's all fake. There's no one actually mad at Blake Lively or think or. There's no one that actually in their mind is. Is like, wow, she actually was really rude to that interviewer. It's literally just like someone behind the scenes at Bleep Agency.

[Tori Peters]

But that's a very appealing worldview in some ways. It actually makes you sound very chill. Like, even though it makes you sound like you're like wearing a tie.

[Sam Taggart]

Insane. Yeah.

[Tori Peters]

It's also like you're like the chillest tin hat wearer. You're like, it's just the bots. Totally, totally chill out. Everybody loves black light.

[Sam Taggart]

It's actually. Yeah, it is kind of beautiful. You, you're even like, no one's mad.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Yeah. But then I'm also like the most. I'm like, no one's mad. But then I'm also like, we're living in like the last of us post apocalyptic world because no one knows what's real or what's fake.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. But soon it'll all be over.

[George Severis]

Oh, that's true. We can agree on that.

[Tori Peters]

It's kind of cheerful.

[George Severis]

This is very stagnant. Soon it'll all be over.

[Sam Taggart]

Soon it'll all be over. Who cares? C' est la vie. We're C' est la vie based podcast nowadays.

[George Severis]

Sam loves saying C' est la.

[Sam Taggart]

I find it to be a really powerful moment. You know, I find it. There's a silliness to it. There's a sort of detachment to it. And I think both of those are really important right now.

[George Severis]

Tori, I want to give you a challenge, which is, you know, for each of these stories, you experimented with a different genre. I would love to see you experiment with the genre of middlebrow humor essays of the type that you find at airports. And I want you to write a book that's called, like, you know, someone's on my seat,

[Sam Taggart]

not me writing a book for you to read on the

[George Severis]

airplane and other concerns.

[Tori Peters]

I would. I mean, I feel like that's actually like the dream for. Is it like, you know, you get like, you get like a. I feel like actually a lot of like, really great writers get to a point in their life where they're like offered a cruise, you know, and then there's two cruises. Oh, yeah. Like the famous, like David Foster Wallace, like a supposedly fund the. You've never, never done whatever it is

[George Severis]

I'll never do again.

[Tori Peters]

I'll never do it again. Like, it's like it was like he basically just like, I get to go on like a Carnival cruise or whatever and I'll like try and elevate it. And then he was like riffing on like Frank Conroy going on a Carnival cruise on some other cruise where you get.

[George Severis]

Gary Steingart just did it.

[Tori Peters]

Gary Steingart. I mean, Gary Steingart loves To go on, like, a paid travel thing.

[George Severis]

Like, I know. But I'm also like, I Stan.

[Tori Peters]

Like, I know. Absolutely. Like, I love to hear him, like, in Dubai being like, I am eating chicken hearts and you're. Or whatever it is that he's saying. It's like, and you got paid $10,000 to do this, and, like, you don't care. Like, the way. I mean, I love the way that Gary Steingart doesn't care. That was like, I just wrote an entire novel about Rolexes.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Tori Peters]

You know, that's like, that's just. I have a nice watch. I like my watch. And now that's my novel. Like, I kind of appreciate his. Like, his, like, just. Just what I've gotten recently for free is the thing that interests me. And I understand that.

[Sam Taggart]

You know, when you said writers go on cruises, I was thinking about comedians going, like.

[George Severis]

I was like, do, like, Q and

[Sam Taggart]

A. I was like, they're performing.

[Tori Peters]

I mean, it's sort of similar, though. Like, Lauren Euler went on the Goop

[George Severis]

cruise as a guest on this podcast.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. Loren Oiler did it and did, like. And did the same. You know, very, very funny. But did the same thing where it's like, now that I'm on a cruise as a writer, I'm going to reference every other writer who was on a cruise as a sort of, like, way of, like, this is a literary tradition. And also, I got a free cruise.

[George Severis]

Like, I think it's great. I know. I know people do roll their eyes at that genre, but I'm like, it's fun to. It's fun for something to be, like, a thing you revisit. I'm trying to think of, like, what an equivalent thing is for. It's like, even. Honestly, Chelsea Peretti in her special, when she's like, every comedian, every male comedian fucks the stool. Like, does an act where they fuck the stool. And so, Chelsea, how do you make it yours? Yeah, how do you make yours? And so Chelsea's. The thing is, like, I want to sort of riff on that. By doing. For me, it's. I'm passively taking it from the stool. So she's just like. Is, like, right by the stool, and she's just, like, sitting there. And then she's like. And then things got crazy, and she turns around and her butt is towards the stool, and she's just sitting there. But it's like, yeah, that's actually what culture is.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's how you interpret it and reference it.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. I mean, if someone offered me a Cruise at this point, it's like, got such a tradition that I wouldn't just be like. I would, of course, be like, I'm a little bit selling out and I am taking the cruise, but I would also be sort of like, I'm in that camp. Like, I'm with Warren Euler.

[George Severis]

You and Gary Steingard.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, Gar Steingart. Camp. Like, that's quite. I'm quite honored to be offered the chance to sell out for our cruise. And I mean, I would do it.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

No, you take it in a heartbeat.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, crews, directors, here's your chance. Magazines, et cetera. Mm.

[George Severis]

Although, you know, cruises are actually really scary because. Did you read that New York mag piece about cruises about the people that got left behind and then could not make their way back?

[Sam Taggart]

Do you know what I'm talking about?

[George Severis]

So there are these people on a cruise and they were dropped off at one of the stops and then were like, running to get back on the cruise ship, but the cruise ship left without them. And then it describes this. They. They weren't. Basically, cruise ships have no liability whatsoever. Like, no laws apply to them. People, like, a shocking number of people die on cruises every year. No one is held accountable. These people were trying to get back on the cruise, and the cruise is just like, we don't care. We're just gonna, like, do our thing. They had medical issues that they didn't have their medicine for because the medicine was still on the cruise. It was just. It's like this insane thing that you're sort of like, basically just putting your life in their hand and cruise ship companies hands.

[Tori Peters]

Is it that it's like the law of the sea applies? It's like maritime laws.

[George Severis]

Yes, it's. It's a combination of that and also some version of basically cruise company lobbying such that they're very loosely regulated.

[Tori Peters]

I mean, I guess I sort of hear about that there's sort of like weird ghost ships of, like, cruise cruise ships where everybody has norovirus at the same time. And, like.

[George Severis]

And the most scary thing is that cruise people like people that. Because the thing with cruise people people is that most people on a cruise are serial cruise ship goers. It's like a cult. And so when you raise these points to them, it's like you're talking to a Scientologist. Like, they don't accept, like, you'll be like, they're like bots. Because Bridget Reed, the writer who wrote the story, like, interviewed a lot of cruise ship people, and they, like, would not accept that cruise ship Companies make mistakes and they would be mad at the people who got left. And they were like, well, they told us, like, you have to be back by 10:55. Meanwhile, someone's dying.

[Tori Peters]

That is very religious. Sort of.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, well, this is maybe a point to. We need to sort of lower the bar for the type of like the writer that can go on a cruise ship. It shouldn't be like, sort of. You've made a really successful career and now you get to do cruise ship. They need to get beginning journalists out there.

[George Severis]

It should be an unpaid internship.

[Sam Taggart]

It should be an unpaid internship because we need more journalists on cruise ships to uncover what is going on.

[George Severis]

Yeah, that's true.

[Sam Taggart]

Enough sort of language about what it means to be on a cruise and more about the crimes that are being committed.

[George Severis]

Actually, I have a question for you, Tori. We were talking about this at some point. What would the contemporary version of specifically David Foster Wallace in that era going on a cruise ship be? Like, yes, the writer going on a cruise is a tradition and everyone does it. But at this point, it's so referencing past cruise ships that it's barely about, like, it's not really about what it says about society that we go on cruise ships. The contemporary thing would be something like, what is so Lynchian and postmodern about society that someone would comment on? Is it going to an influencer conference? Is it going to. What is so depraved about our society that now you would want a highbrow writer to perform analysis on?

[Tori Peters]

Okay, well, I have two thoughts on that. One is that I feel like this. One of the things that's happened is that this genre has been sort of ignorant, exhausted. Like, we're gonna find the Lynchian thing. So, like, even. And it ends up becoming like, depraved in the practice of it. Like, I feel like the number of writers who are like, I'm going to like a right. I'm gonna go hang out with like, right wing influencers and try and like, make them interesting to us. Like, I'm. It makes me, like, sick.

[George Severis]

It's like a morally bankrupt project.

[Tori Peters]

It's like this, this. This idea of like, oh, we're just gonna find out what the. What the. You know, we're gonna find out what the fascists think, you know, at their little and their little fashion. Like, oh, they wear this ha. This shoe. Ooh, interesting. It's like that's. We're no longer like, at the state fair with David Foster Wallace. We're like, we're laundering something. When we do this. So I'm like. I'm kind of like. I'm kind of like in the typical magazine version of this. I'm like, this. This thing is. It doesn't work anymore now. And so, like, because I too, am always like, what. What is a great magazine assignment that I could, like, pitch for myself where I get to go do something kind of enjoyable and eat nice food. And, you know, I absolutely want that, you know, and. And that I. But that I could also be saying something while I'm doing it. And, like, most of the things I could be saying are, like, kind of awful at this point. But I will say that I think that probably the frontiers on this are like, I would like to see a serious writer take on discord gooning.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

No, this is so good. I'm so glad you said this.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, that was like. I feel like it's not. Not a thing in life, but, like, that there's like, like whole, like, cultures that, like, I need somebody that are like. That are like, not like, oh, it's like a great place you go to. But, like, the, like. I didn't know about discord gooning until, like, last year, and then I was, like, fascinated with discord gooning and I.

[George Severis]

Wait, can you actually explain what it is?

[Tori Peters]

So, like, you have, like, whatever your fetishes, right? It's like there's discords.

[George Severis]

Yeah, right.

[Tori Peters]

Where your thing is. You sign under discord and there's like. There's like thousands of other people on these discords and that, like, then you, like, spend all day gooning, you know, like, but. But like, it's. It's like, so. It's like a. It's like I knew about this basic thing from, like, chat when I was like, a kid or like, oh, like, you know, asl, like, age sex. And then you kind of like, I'm in it with you. I'm, like, doing a thing. But it's like, so overwhelmingly like, like, sensory attack now where it's like, you can be in voice channels. Be as you're gooning with other people in voice channels. You're sending them every two seconds like some porn. That's like, their triggers. Like, you're like, breaking each other's brains in the discord goon, you know, as you're just masturbating for, like, you know, on Adderall for hours and hours and hours. So you have like. Like in marathon endurance for it. And like. And then. And to me, I'm just like, this explains so much. Like, like, I kind of like When I see people, I'm like. And I'm like, why are they doing this thing? It's like, well, they're probably off of, like 22 hours of gooning. Like, I also would be making.

[Sam Taggart]

I never know what people are going through. You never know what people are going through. I'm so glad you brought this up. I learned about Discord like, jerk off groups recently.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And I haven't. Luckily, I'm technically untalented, so I haven't found my way in. But I was like, well, I've got to check that out.

[Tori Peters]

There is a level of tech to do it that is like. That is like. Like, I wanted to. I wanted to see it. I'm like, you have to really be invested. But I feel like once you invested, like, it seems that the payoffs are hot. It's like, it's like once you're in, you're like, I'm set. Like, I don't need the real world anymore.

[Sam Taggart]

It's great that people are getting weirder in a way that I am finding myself curious about. Like, I am like, I follow a guy on porn Twitter that like, like, puts his full ID up and it's just like, just humiliate me. And I'm like, wow. He puts his phone number and he's like, just text me and tell me I'm pitiful.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And I'm like, this is weird.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. And I just don't think that, like, real life can. Can achieve that level of like, like dopamine, sensory humiliation. Like, if it's like, I was weird, you know, like, on the street and like, some people just were like. And like, you know, a few people snickered and you're like, I was mildly humiliated. But when you have like 20,000 people on the Internet but doing that, it's like you're. The sensory overload that is possible for this kind of thing now is so fascinating.

[George Severis]

Well.

[Sam Taggart]

And then the sensory overload becomes the point. I've seen so many things of, like, porn is my life. I will quit your family and watch porn. And it's crazy where it's like the religion of porn becomes the new thing.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. And I need a respectable writer who's not part of this. I want Barbara Kingsolver. Yeah. And I'm just like, doing this is the culture of gooning. I've uncovered it.

[Sam Taggart]

That's so genius. You know, we started this horny and we're ending it horny. I really appreciate that.

[Tori Peters]

I want them to, like, uncover the big goon.

[Sam Taggart]

The big goon the Big Goon has not been exposed.

[Tori Peters]

No, the Big Goon has not been exposed.

[George Severis]

And you know what's actually sick is like so many people are hypocrites and are so sex positive in their writing and in their attitudes and whatever, and they would absolutely cower at the sight of the Big Goon. They would not have the bravery to look it in the eye.

[Tori Peters]

So, like, strap on their pith helmet, go in.

[Sam Taggart]

Damn. Barbara Kingsolver, if you're listening, this is your moment.

[George Severis]

This is your moment.

[Tori Peters]

It was great that you got the Pulitzer, but can you face the big game? Yeah.

[George Severis]

Wow. Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that was amazing.

[George Severis]

Should we do our final, any final thoughts on prolonged divorce as a straightforward?

[Tori Peters]

Um, no. Just, just, just rip the band aid off.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Rip the bandage off.

[Tori Peters]

Like, I think I'll just say, I think it should be a four month process.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Tori Peters]

Wow. Yeah. I think if we're going to do an arbitrary thing, I think from proposing your divorce to filing it four months is reasonable.

[Sam Taggart]

That's really reasonable.

[Tori Peters]

And you can still be. It's a gay marriage. If you're, if you can do it in four months, anything after that, you, you, you're in a straight marriage.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. Yeah, you heard it here.

[George Severis]

Straightest marriage. Brangelina. Yeah, they're still going. Oh, I think divorcing. I think they're still divorcing. Am I wrong?

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

It's like it's been years.

[Sam Taggart]

I had no idea.

[George Severis]

And they are actually, if you think about it, sort of the archetypal straight American couple.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

Of this generation.

[Tori Peters]

I think, like, you don't have to like have everything settled after four months. Like if you're like them and you own like a rose wine thing, it's

[Sam Taggart]

like who gets the rose?

[Tori Peters]

It's. That is like, that's difficult to manage.

[Sam Taggart]

That's different paperwork and that's the lawyers

[Tori Peters]

figuring out how to. But you know, you have to like settle that. We are going to split up the rose.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, yeah. They finalized December 2024.

[George Severis]

We're getting word that they finalized December 2024.

[Sam Taggart]

We have once again spread misinformation and December 2024.

[George Severis]

Huh, huh.

[Sam Taggart]

Still pretty recent.

[George Severis]

You know, the rose is not bad. Oh, I tried it recently. Anyway, let's do our final segment.

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[Sam Taggart]

Uncovered repairs. Okay, Tori. Our final segment is called Shout Outs. And in this segment we pay homage to the grand straight tradition of the radio shout out. Shouting out to anything that we are enjoy. Places, things, ideas. Imagine it's 2001, you're at TRL shouting out to your squad back home.

[George Severis]

And we have to think, we have to think about it on the spot. Which is why I have my thinking face on here's.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, I have one. I have one.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

What's up freaks, losers and perverts around the globe? I want to give a shout out to listening to different music in different locations and having it hit different. I, you know, this is sort of a basic concept, but sometimes, you know, as I've been living in Los Angeles, some music I'm like seeing it make sense more. And some music I've been like, I know this is good and I know that I like this, but it's not hitting as hard as I want. Today I was walking through New York City and I was taking the subway and I said, it's time to put on ok, Lou. And guess what? It was hitting harder than it's hit ever before in my whole life. I already liked it, but this time I was like, damn, the subway's like I'm underwater. Like I was in heaven. I felt cool. I felt like, you know, this used to be my life and you know, I one day hope to be cool again. But that is neither here nor there. But it is on the subway listening to ok, Lou. New York City. I love you. Xoxo Sam Woo.

[George Severis]

Wait, I need to tell you my version of this. So my dad's favorite musical artist when I was growing up was Sade. Now Sade, famously is like sexy music. And I think I will finally be lucky, liberated when I can recontextualize Sade as something sexy rather than something that reminds me of my father.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I mean, I find myself like, and

[George Severis]

I can't like, I, I, it's, you'll get there.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. You just need new context.

[George Severis]

I need new, I need, I need Smokey. I need, honestly, Discord gooning. But for Sade.

[Sam Taggart]

Pop the headphones in. Yeah, I've, I'm finding myself listening to Haim constantly in LA because I'm like, well, this is going to make sense.

[Tori Peters]

That does make sense. In la.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Tori Peters]

It's like so sunny.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. And today I was like, should I put on Heim? And I was like, why not In

[George Severis]

New York, it's cold.

[Sam Taggart]

It doesn't make any sense.

[George Severis]

Okay, what's up, fashionistas. I want to give a shout out to the the brand Merrell, the shoe brand Merrell. It is so difficult right now to shop for shoes because of the sort of constant TikTok semi ironic reappropriation of every floating signifier that constantly exists. It is impossible to know whether something you are wearing signifies that you are basic, that you are young, that you're all trying to be young, that you are trying to be hype Beastie. And there is something about Merrell brand shoes that almost transcends that. I think it has been appropriated and reappropriated so many times that you can, they can basically be whatever you want them to be and you sort of can get away with wearing them and they just like accommodate you the rest of your style. And so I am, this is the Merrell pledge. I am buying a pair of Merrells in the next calendar month. And that's going to be my new look. It's gonna be my Kamala blazer is I'm gonna to wear Merrells. And I just want to thank them for everything they've contributed to both straight, queer, gay, all cultures because they have something for.

[Sam Taggart]

Lily was wearing them last night.

[George Severis]

Lily was wearing them last night. And so shout out to Merrill. I don't know if they are an ethical company, but I will do my research after this show again. Yeah, that's my beautiful Torey. Whenever you're ready.

[Tori Peters]

Okay, I'm gonna shout out out to nautical decorations. Yes, I was in a. What? I, I, I went with a bunch of gay people to a restaurant that was, I was, I was staring at it the whole time. I was like, what is this restaurant? Why does it look this way? Like I couldn't name it because I was with gay people. So it didn't occur to me that I could be in a nautical restaurant. Like they were throwing off what the restaurant was. And then finally I went to the, to the bathroom by myself. And I was in the bathroom and there was like rope trim on. Like everything was navy blue and white, you know, And I was like, oh, maybe it's chic. I don't know. And then, and then I don't know what chic is oftentimes anyway, I was like, is this, maybe it's kind of Frenchy, you know, like, so maybe that's true. Could be. So yeah, I was in the bathroom and like, it was like those rope trim picture of a sailboat. And all of a sudden I was like, I was like, probably the bathroom. I was like, it's A yacht club. You know, like alone. But I was like, I realized like that's what this theme was. And, and, and the whole lunch was just reach. It was changed. I was like this, this, the feel of this lunch that I thought was like in a, in a. Like a cool New York restaurant. No, I've just been dining at the yacht club and, and everything was different and it was because I became aware of. Of the nautical motif.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow, that is so powerful.

[George Severis]

Do you think nautical. I love nautical will come back like.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, 100%.

[George Severis]

Like in the way that people fetishize cowboy workwear, all that stuff. Like will we get to a sailor moment?

[Sam Taggart]

Nautical is incoming. I also think we all have this thing where our parents bathrooms had like a seashore theme.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And it's like hack. But now we're like almost at a place where we're like, well, I'm my parents age, like maybe I want to find my way into the sea.

[Tori Peters]

Time for some shells around the mirror. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I think there's something where you're like, well, I'll do it but it'll be like semi ironic and I'll find a way to play with it.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah. The thing is it immediately becomes like that, that just becomes like your thing. Like I, I like in Florida. When I'm in Florida I am like excited to see like manatee themed.

[Sam Taggart]

Totally.

[Tori Peters]

When I like like not in a

[George Severis]

sort of ironic and also like crocodile alligator stuff.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

In Maine when I see those damn buoys everywhere, I'm like perfect.

[Tori Peters]

You're like, yeah, I'm in Maine.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, in fact, I'm bringing my home.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

All I want is a damn Maine buoy.

[George Severis]

Tori, this has been an absolute delight.

[Tori Peters]

It has been a pleasure for me.

[Sam Taggart]

Thanks so much for doing it.

[George Severis]

Thank you so much for doing it. Please purchase the book stag dance on bookshop.org and not Amazon. That's right, I said it.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. Making a political statement.

[George Severis]

Making a political statement or Amazon or whatever. I have no moral backbone. And if you're in the uk, you know, look, look. Where are you going to be?

[Tori Peters]

I'm going to be. It's going to be like eight stops in the UK and then including West Kirby. I don't know. That is probably the most obscure but apparently it's a nice place outside of Liverpool. Doing event in Brighton with Sean Fay who probably your listeners know of Sean Ferrari. And then I'm doing also Sydney Literary Festival, Auckland Literary Festival and Melbourne Literary Festival. So I'm doing.

[George Severis]

We actually do have a lot of Australian listeners.

[Sam Taggart]

That's true.

[Tori Peters]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Australians love alt gay comedy.

[Sam Taggart]

They actually kind of do. It's confusing.

[Tori Peters]

This is perfect then, because I've been sort of remiss in promoting those things.

[George Severis]

Oh, yeah, no, if you're an Australian listener, please, please look that up.

[Tori Peters]

I'll be there.

[George Severis]

Amazing.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. Well, bye.

[George Severis]

Podcast ends now for our visual learners. You can watch full video episodes on our YouTube channel and subscribe to our

[Sam Taggart]

Patreon for two extra episodes a month

[George Severis]

at patreon.com Stradiolab Stradiolab is a production

[Sam Taggart]

by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeart Podcasts, created and hosted by

[George Severis]

me, George Severis and Sam Taggart.

[Sam Taggart]

Executive produced by produced by Jenna Cagle, co produced by Becca Ramos, edited by

[George Severis]

Lauren Stumpf and mixed and mastered by Doug Bain.

[Sam Taggart]

Artwork by Michael Fails and Matt Grubb Theme music by Ben Kling.

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[George Severis]

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[Sam Taggart]

What?

[Tori Peters]

Yes.

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[Tori Peters]

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[Tori Peters]

Subscribe now.

[Sam Taggart]

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