"YouTube Celebrities & Controversies" w/ Ali Macofsky

Summary

StraightioLab: YouTube Celebrities & Controversies ft. Ali Macofsky

Released on April 8, 2025 by Big Money Players Network and iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this episode of StraightioLab, hosts George Sever and Sam Taggart delve into the intricate world of YouTube celebrities and the controversies that surround them. Joined by guest Ali Macofsky, the trio explores how straight culture shapes online personalities, the nature of internet drama, and the differing perceptions between straight and LGBTQ+ communities.

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Romanticizing Los Angeles vs. Reality ([03:05] - [06:00])

The episode kicks off with George and Sam discussing their love-hate relationship with Los Angeles. George expresses his admiration for the cultural history of the city but struggles with its modern-day realities.

• George Sever ([03:05]): "I genuinely like reading, like, cultural histories of Los Angeles. I genuinely like... one of those things that I actually love in theory and struggle with in practice."

Sam echoes this sentiment, highlighting the gap between media portrayals and personal experiences.

• Sam Taggart ([04:41]): "These media sort of aggrandizings of LA are a lie."

Navigating Straight Relationships and Friendships ([08:37] - [17:19])

Ali Macofsky joins the conversation, bringing insights into the dynamics of straight relationships, particularly focusing on emotional connectivity and friendship loyalties. The discussion touches on the challenges of maintaining deep connections and the stereotypes surrounding male friendships.

• Ali Macofsky ([09:19]): "Come on, let's dig a little deeper."

• George Sever ([11:04]): "Straight men's friendships are very disconnected."

They also delve into the roles of aunts and uncles, emphasizing the lack of guidance on navigating these familial relationships within straight culture.

Social Media Critique and Online Criticism ([19:03] - [24:16])

The conversation shifts to the realm of social media, where George and Sam express their frustration with online critiques and the lack of media literacy among audiences. They discuss the challenges of receiving feedback in public forums and the often hostile nature of online interactions.

• Sam Taggart ([19:13]): "I'm not in a place where I want to be critiqued."

• George Sever ([20:22]): "And I'm like, how many more people are gonna say, read a book on queer history?"

Analyzing YouTube Drama: Brianna Chicken Fry and Beyond ([35:34] - [61:21])

The core of the episode revolves around YouTube celebrities like Brianna Chicken Fry, Zach Bryan, and controversies linked to platforms like Barstool Sports. Ali provides a detailed breakdown of Brianna's tumultuous relationship with Zach Bryan, highlighting issues of loyalty, emotional manipulation, and public perception.

• Ali Macofsky ([38:06]): "Their relationship was already kind of doomed from the beginning."

George and Sam compare these controversies to traditional celebrity scandals, noting the differences in how straight and LGBTQ+ dramas unfold online.

• George Sever ([43:40]): "Loyalty related things. I think on one side you have faithful, like being faithful, monogamy... and on the other side you have non-gendered loyalty."

They further explore how straight culture gravitate towards everyday, relatable drama, whereas LGBTQ+ communities often engage with more glamorous or performative content.

• Sam Taggart ([46:41]): "I think gay people are drawn to glamour... whereas straight people are attracted to the more everyday village type thing."

Final Thoughts: The Future of Online Drama ([61:21] - [74:54])

As the episode approaches its conclusion, the hosts reflect on the impending escalation of YouTuber dramas and the cultural implications. They debate the sustainability of such content and ponder the shift needed for more meaningful online interactions.

• George Sever ([62:16]): "Creator drama really is, like, not to sound elitist, but it really does feel like the death knell of all culture."

• Sam Taggart ([64:31]): "But I think it’s time that gay people need to make more boring content. The way that straight people have dominated the boring content market."

Segments

1. Straight Shooters ([27:46] - [35:34])

   In this rapid-fire segment, guests are quizzed on their preferences between various straight culture phenomena. Ali impresses the hosts with her responses, earning high praise.

   • George Sever ([28:29]): "Rilo Kiley or Riley Keough?"

   • Ali Macofsky ([29:03]): "Ooh, a suspiciously blood stained pashmina."

2. Shout Outs ([67:10] - [73:47])

   The hosts conclude with shout outs, celebrating favorite books and products. George recommends "Amusing Ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman, while Ali praises Trader Joe’s 2-in-1 hair care product.

   • George Sever ([68:12]): "There is something so beautifully nostalgic about remembering when that was the issue everyone cared about."

   • Ali Macofsky ([72:17]): "I love it. It's $5. If you hate it, throw it away."

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Conclusion

In "YouTube Celebrities & Controversies," StraightioLab offers a nuanced exploration of the intersection between straight culture and online content creation. Through engaging dialogue and insightful commentary, George, Sam, and Ali shed light on the evolving nature of internet drama and its broader cultural implications.

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Notable Quotes

• George Sever ([03:05]): "I genuinely like reading, like, cultural histories of Los Angeles. I genuinely like... one of those things that I actually love in theory and struggle with in practice."

• Sam Taggart ([19:13]): "I'm not in a place where I want to be critiqued."

• Ali Macofsky ([38:06]): "Their relationship was already kind of doomed from the beginning."

• Sam Taggart ([46:41]): "I think gay people are drawn to glamour... whereas straight people are attracted to the more everyday village type thing."

• George Sever ([62:16]): "Creator drama really is, like, not to sound elitist, but it really does feel like the death knell of all culture."

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Key Takeaways

• Media Portrayal vs. Reality: The hosts emphasize the disparity between how Los Angeles and its culture are portrayed in media versus the actual experience of living there.

• Relationship Dynamics: Discussion on the complexities of straight relationships, emotional connectivity, and the stereotypes surrounding male friendships.

• Social Media Challenges: Highlighting the difficulties of handling online criticism and the lack of media literacy among audiences.

• YouTube Drama Analysis: A deep dive into the controversies surrounding YouTube personalities like Brianna Chicken Fry, comparing straight and LGBTQ+ approaches to online scandals.

• Future of Online Content: Concerns over the direction of online drama and the need for more authentic, less sensationalized content.

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For More Information

• Ali Macofsky: Visit allymakofsky.com for tour dates, her YouTube interview show featuring guests like St. Vincent and Dylan Francis, and upcoming comedy episodes.

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StraightioLab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeartPodcasts.

Transcript

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[Ally Makofsky]

I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous. Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas.

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[Sam Taggart]

Hey, everybody, it's Sam here with a quick little announcement, and that is that we are doing strategy back in New York City on Wednesday, April 16 at the Bell House. Couldn't be more excited. It's a special edition. We're calling it Lesbio Lab, and we're discussing lesbian topics with some of our incredible guests, including Sydney Washington, Andrea Longshu and Natalie Rotter Laitman. So the lineup's to die for. I haven't been back in New York In a few months, and I cannot wait. So please get tickets. They're in our bios, and we would love to see you there. Bye. Okay, podcast starts now. Hi, George. Welcome to la. How are you?

[George Sever]

Oh, my God, I'm loving it here. Yeah, well, not quite. It is. Okay, first of all, I would. I'm. I'm vowing not to say anything negative about Los Angeles for a full calendar year. Because of.

[Sam Taggart]

Because of the fires?

[George Sever]

Yes, because of everything Angelina's have been know. I have so much.

[Sam Taggart]

Very kind of you.

[George Sever]

I have so much affection for the city of Los Angeles, despite all my negative associations with it. Okay, sure. That said, what's the plan?

[Sam Taggart]

I want to go back to what you, Ovarid Issa, have said, which is that, you know, you have all these issues with Los Angeles, and yet if you push those aside, you love it.

[George Sever]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

I think that's such an amazing way to view the world, because pretty much anyone I have issue with. If you take away all the issues I have with them, I love them to death. I have no problems with them at all, as long as the problems are taken away.

[George Sever]

Here's my thing with Los Angeles is I actually like. I genuinely love reading, like, cultural histories of Los Angeles. And I like, in the. I think it's, like, one of those things that I actually love in theory and struggle with in practice.

[Sam Taggart]

Of course.

[George Sever]

I genuinely like I'm the king of Didion. Eve Babbitt. Give me, like, Lana, like, sure. Music about Los Angeles, films about Los Angeles. Like, I am. I will eat it up. And then I arrive, and suddenly I'm like, wait, why am I meeting, like, a music executive who is wearing, like, weird designer Birkenstocks, and suddenly we're out to lunch and I have to impress him.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I think all those media sort of aggrandizings of LA are a lie. No disrespect to la, what with everything happening.

[George Sever]

No disrespect to Joan Didion.

[Sam Taggart]

No disrespect to Joan Didion. She was making stuff up. Let's start. No.

[George Sever]

Well, she was quite literally telling herself stories in order to live, but go on.

[Sam Taggart]

She was fully lying. She was living in Mali. She was not chilling in East Hollywood.

[George Sever]

This is something no one talks about. And she was fully in Malibu, just.

[Sam Taggart]

Hanging out and being like, God, I love la. She was like, no, you love Malibu.

[George Sever]

Smoking cigarettes, not eating for five days.

[Sam Taggart]

At a time, drinking fully, starting at noon. And she's like, God, this city's amazing.

[George Sever]

You're just, like, eating it up. And they're like, God, she's so right.

[Sam Taggart]

She's so smart. I mean, I literally have not had a meal out in public that wasn't next to someone talking about their, like, aspiring model, acting, music career in a full calendar year. That can do a lot to someone. I fear leaving my home because you have to find a parking spot wherever you go. Everywhere I go, I'm stranded there. There's no free fun. You are just. Everywhere you go, you are stuck and you are scared. And I think all these people. There needs to be new media about la. I need someone to romanticize. You know, the fact that you have to go home because you couldn't find parking. I need someone to romanticize. Like, you actually Ubered to get drinks with a friend where they drove. So you wasted your Uber money because you were actually planning on getting four drinks where they were planning on getting one and a half.

[George Sever]

You know, you should watch. Nobody Wants this.

[Sam Taggart]

What's that?

[George Sever]

You know that show with Adam Brody?

[Sam Taggart]

I'm just supposed to know every show now?

[George Sever]

Oh, my God. This was Adam Brody. Like, that's why he's having a resurgence. Two podcasting sisters.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, I haven't heard of this.

[George Sever]

It's. I'm going to just keep describing it.

[Sam Taggart]

This is not good.

[George Sever]

This is not good footage.

[Sam Taggart]

Keep going.

[George Sever]

Well, anyway, I'm just saying it's about two sisters that have a podcast in the year 2024. So it's maybe exactly what you're. What the doctor ordered for you. It romanticizes Los Angeles in a way where you're actually kind of like, maybe none of these people deserve to have careers or jobs.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I just that I want to. People need to say whether or not we're Ubering or driving.

[George Sever]

Should we bring in our guest? Weigh in?

[Sam Taggart]

I think we should. And because this is also starting to sound so stereotypical. Podcast.

[George Sever]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

That I think we need a new energy in here.

[George Sever]

I agree. And we're. We've never been stereotypical in our lives.

[Sam Taggart]

And we're always unique.

[George Sever]

Everything we do is unique and has never been done before.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. So with that being said, please welcome to the podcast Ally Makofsky.

[Ally Makofsky]

Oh, hi. Hi.

[George Sever]

The one rule is you can't say anything unoriginal.

[Ally Makofsky]

Okay. Okay.

[George Sever]

Are you from California?

[Ally Makofsky]

I'm from Long beach, yeah.

[George Sever]

Oh, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I didn't know that.

[Ally Makofsky]

So I feel slightly disrespectful.

[George Sever]

How do you feel about romanticizing California and romanticizing Los Angeles?

[Ally Makofsky]

I think, yeah. La La Land did a pretty good job, I would say.

[George Sever]

I would Agree.

[Ally Makofsky]

You know, they had a full dance break musical number in the Los Angeles traffic.

[Sam Taggart]

True, true.

[George Sever]

I'm ready to reclaim La La Land. Do you remember at the time when it was like, La La Land, you might as well be a Trump supporter if you like La Land.

[Ally Makofsky]

I don't remember this because it was.

[George Sever]

La La Land versus Moonlight. And so people were like, well, if you like La La Land, you're a Trump supporter.

[Ally Makofsky]

Oh, my gosh. I don't remember that discourse of it.

[Sam Taggart]

God, it was an amazing time.

[Ally Makofsky]

I have rewatched La La Land somewhat recently, and it's so good.

[George Sever]

Yeah, it's actually good.

[Ally Makofsky]

Unfortunately, it's like, I have a boyfriend. Sorry. Congratulations. I just need to certify the straightness. Totally discussing. But I, like, I want him to cry. I think that's every woman's goal in a heterosexual relationship. Yes, I need to see him cry. I want to know that there's emotions in depth. And so when we first got together, I had him watch Marley and Me because I'm like, that's like a. That's certified, basically, like emotional porn. Not a good movie. But, like, you will cry. And then, you know, it had been some time since that. So we put on La La Land and he did get choked up.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, that's nice.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah. So I'm like, okay. La La Land is movie for many reasons.

[George Sever]

I feel like that is such a big part of straight relationships is women once a month being like, let's check if he has feelings again.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yep, totally.

[George Sever]

Because I'm get. I'm starting to get suspicious that he might not anymore.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, it's almost like a scab. Like, they, over time, they just do scab up and you have to, like, break it off or else.

[George Sever]

Yeah, you have to, like, remind them.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Sever]

You have to show them some pain in the world and be like, how does this make you feel?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, this is a test.

[George Sever]

Then. Yeah, they're passing.

[Ally Makofsky]

Well, because I feel like guys are always like, oh, when women. You know, when you're in a relationship and women are. Are like, it's fine, we know, it's. You just gotta tell us. And then I'll be like, how was your day? And they're like, good. I'm like, you don't give anything either.

[George Sever]

I know, it's crazy.

[Ally Makofsky]

Come on, let's dig a little deeper.

[George Sever]

It's the comfort with, like. You know, this is a cliche, but, like, guys will have friends that they know nothing about and they are lifelong friends. Or, like, I would die for him. Like, I'm giving a speech at his wedding, do not know a single thing about him.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm starting to get into this territory with some people.

[George Sever]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Where now it's like. Like, going out friends. I feel like I have people that I know simply from, like, we go to the same bar on Friday, and I'll, like, see them on Friday, and it's like, I don't know. Sometimes I'll even forget their name. If it's been a month.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I'll be like, oh, and hi. And it's like, at what point do we. I don't know if I want to take it to the next level. And at what point should I. I think that's fine.

[Ally Makofsky]

I talked to my therapist about this. Yeah. There's like, you can have little friend circles. So there's like, the really close friend circle, and then there's like, the acquaintance circ. And then there's maybe bar friend circle. Like, there's different circles. Not everyone needs to be at the same level.

[George Sever]

Yeah. I think what you're saying is. Yes, not everyone needs to be the same level. And then the issue with the straight guy thing is that then. But that's their closest friend circle.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, that's a good.

[Ally Makofsky]

You know what I mean?

[Sam Taggart]

It's like, that differentiates.

[George Sever]

They'll be like, that's my best friend.

[Ally Makofsky]

My. Well, my boyfriend. One of his, like, closest friends from growing up is getting married, having a wedding. My boyfriend has been asked to be one of the best groommen, best men, whatever it's called. And my boyfriend's like, so he. He couldn't be. He's like, I don't want to go. And I'm like, that's your. One of your closest friends. But I think guys just don't have that connection to friendships where it's like, oh, this is an important thing. They're like, and now I have to go to this wedding. Like, it's just an errand. Like, you know, is it.

[Sam Taggart]

Is it an inconvenient wedding, especially, you know?

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah, it's. It's a destination wedding. It's. It's a bit of an inconvenience, but it's like, he's getting married.

[George Sever]

Sure.

[Ally Makofsky]

You gotta go. You gotta suck it up.

[George Sever]

Yeah. It's funny. Cause the stereotype, it's like, okay, man won't see the point of it. But then the stereotype of. The sexist stereotype, of course, of a woman is like, she's excited to go. And also do emotional warfare at the destination wedding, you know?

[Ally Makofsky]

What? I mean, yes. Yeah. I won't be able to make the wedding because it's too inconvenient.

[Adam]

No.

[Ally Makofsky]

I end up.

[George Sever]

Well, you're not gonna go without him.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

Wait, he's gonna go.

[Ally Makofsky]

He's going.

[George Sever]

Oh, he just doesn't want to go. Yes. Okay.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Sever]

But you can't go.

[Ally Makofsky]

But now I can't go. Which I was like. I was happy. I don't even know this guy very well. And I'm like, come on, babe. It's a trip. We'll make it, you know, a thing. But yeah. Yeah. Guys, guys. Friendships. Straight men's friendships are very disconnected.

[George Sever]

There is something. It's a very specific experience to be a plus one at a wedding where you're hearing all these people say such emotional and intimate things and you just have to nod along and it means nothing for you.

[Ally Makofsky]

But it kind of means everything, I.

[George Sever]

Guess, because you're sort of, like, watching and.

[Ally Makofsky]

Because it is so, like, loving. It's like, I'm watching a movie and I'm still invested. Even if I don't know you.

[Sam Taggart]

I actually need to go to a wedding where I know the people even less. I think that would be really helpful because I want to test this theory, because I've been to weddings where I'm like, yeah, I've seen you, like, twice a year, over eight years. But, like, we're never really close, but I still know a little too much to lose myself. Like, it's almost like being friends with. With an actor and you, like, see their movie and you're like, well, I still know it's John.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Whereas I want to almost see a full stranger's wedding and see if I can lose myself in it.

[Ally Makofsky]

I think for sure. Because I think even more so than someone, you know, because if I. If one of my friends was getting married, I'd be like, she'd be saying her vows, and they'd be beautiful. And I'd be like, she was talking about him last month. I know what the real tea is.

[Sam Taggart]

That is really complicated because. And I hate when weddings, they lean too much into the deprecation, and they're like. And Todd is such a fucking loser, and he's lucky he got me, because I hate. But there needs to be a balance, and it's really hard to hit that balance.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

There's a comic in New York, Sophia Pelton, and they have a joke about how the premise is that you should be able to buy tickets to any wedding. Like, it should just be on Live Nation and Like if you want to go, you should go. And it can be expensive, but like, if you want to, you should go. And I think it's one of the most brilliant premises I've ever heard because it's like, it really is so true, actually. It is meant to be an entertaining theater piece and I should be able to go to someone. I sort of stalk online's wedding if I want to. I don't have to make myself known. I can be very sort of way in the back, of course.

[Sam Taggart]

And obviously the family would get like a VIP section, maybe a wristband.

[George Sever]

Yes, exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

Maybe open bar for them.

[George Sever]

And by the way, you recoup the funds. I mean, weddings are expensive. If you sell tickets, then you can even make a profit.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, get that social media numbers up. And you get those social media numbers.

[George Sever]

Up, we have people we can introduce you to for short form video content. They do great, great stuff over at iHeart. I just think, I mean, and you don't have to like, if you want to be sort of like a Luddite, you can do a non social media, non ticketed wedding.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. If you like hate the public.

[George Sever]

Yeah, totally.

[Sam Taggart]

You're hiding something.

[George Sever]

Are you getting married?

[Ally Makofsky]

No fair. No. I think if I were to get married, I would do like a little elopement. Yeah, I feel like a little elopement is cute. My grandma got eloped, which is like so fierce.

[George Sever]

I love. Got eloped.

[Ally Makofsky]

She eloped?

[Sam Taggart]

No, she got it.

[Ally Makofsky]

It happened to her.

[George Sever]

She got eloped?

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

She was like, you're getting eloped.

[Ally Makofsky]

I mean, it is kind of one of those old school loves where all of a sudden you just got eloped. Yeah, but she eloped in Vegas, which is like. Because now she's like 90 something.

[George Sever]

This was when she was young.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, 82.

[George Sever]

I was like, maybe she's like has like this third act where she like fell in love in her 80s.

[Ally Makofsky]

No, but I just love that, like back in the day when everyone's kind. I feel like back in the day everything was way more traditional. So the fact that she eloped in Vegas is real fierce, pretty punk rock.

[George Sever]

My grandmother, when we were younger would sometimes let it slip that she was like very. I'm trying to say this in a respectful way that in her village in Greece, she was very popular as a woman.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yes.

[George Sever]

Before she got with my grandfather.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Interesting.

[George Sever]

And then we were all sort of like, okay, what is the most progressive and inclusive way to respond to this?

[Sam Taggart]

Can I ask, what type of language does she use to say this?

[George Sever]

I think it's more like. I think it's literally, like, along the lines of what I'm saying. Like, I was very popular with the boys or something.

[Sam Taggart]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Ally Makofsky]

My grandma bragged about having giant boobs, and that's why my grandpa really loved her.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

And I'm like, well, that'll do it.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

It's a good reason. Yeah.

[George Sever]

Giant boobs, Vegas elopement. I mean, she's kind of a queen.

[Ally Makofsky]

I know. I'm, like, kind of sad that I only know her as an old woman because I'm like, I want to go out with you, girl. You seem fun.

[George Sever]

It is crazy that we're now full fledged adults and we're still figuring out that our parents and grandparents used to be young.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah, totally.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, and it's even worse now that I have, like, nieces and nephews. I'm like, oh, no, you're only gonna know me as, like, the old guy.

[Ally Makofsky]

I am trying to do this joke right now about how frustrating it is to become an aunt or an uncle or something, because no one asks you if you're ready.

[Sam Taggart]

You don't consent.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah. When my sisters were like, we're having a baby. I'm like, you weren't going to ask me. Like, I'm not ready to become an aunt. Like, now I have to watch my life go by through the lens of your children growing up.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Ally Makofsky]

It's horrifying.

[Sam Taggart]

It's. It is horrifying because even, like, now my, like, nephew is, like, three, and I'm like, whoa. But I haven't changed much in the last three years.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, that's not fair.

[Ally Makofsky]

And there's no.

[Sam Taggart]

I shouldn't. That shouldn't be reflected back in me.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah. And there's no, like. Like, parents have so many books on how to be a good parent, and I'm like, I need a book. I don't know how to be an aunt. I feel like a deadbeat. And am I supposed to get them gifts every time I see them? How often do I talk to them? Do they even register it to me on FaceTime? Like, what's the best way to, like, be an active aunt in their life?

[Sam Taggart]

The way that you can make it your own does actually stress me out. I wish there was a set of rules.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Because I'm even like, do you. Like, I'm almost, like, waiting to be told. Like, I want my sister to be like, no. Get them presents. Because right now I'm like, well, that would be. I would be annoyed if I. If you guys like, had a bunch of junk now because every time I saw you, you got a toy.

[Ally Makofsky]

But then when I show up empty handed, I'm like, you guys hate me, huh? You guys hate me. I'm doing a bad job.

[George Sever]

Literally. The way we live, truly a 10 minute walk from our niece. And so we see her all the time. But every time I walk in empty handed, I know it's in my head, but I can almost see my sister in law being like, oh, so you just sort of. Hey, shut up. Not even like a little onesie or sort of like a little. A little toy or a stuffed animal. There is an expectation that you should be. Which if she's listening, I don't actually think that, but there's an expectation that like every. That, like your job as uncle or aunt is like, to produce presents.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. And speaking of the. If you're listening, I don't mean any of this. I actually did want to address this. I texted you about this. Yeah, yeah. We're not in a place where we want to be critiqued.

[George Sever]

This is Sam's new thing.

[Sam Taggart]

This is my new thing that I actually think is really smart. Okay. I think in the same way that no one asked for consent, whether you to be an aunt or uncle, no one's. No one's asking me if I'm ready to be critiqued. And I'm not always ready to be critiqued.

[Ally Makofsky]

Like, in what sense? I can comment on Instagram.

[George Sever]

There is a video that was posted of us where we say something about how often lesbians we know fall into mask and femme dynamics.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

And so, as you might imagine in the comments, there is a army, a militaristic army of lesbians that are telling us to read queer history.

[Ally Makofsky]

Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Literally just being like, it's her. It's called a book. Read one. And it's like, enough, like. And then I've seen this comment, like at least 12 times now, and I'm like, how many more people are gonna say, read a book on queer history? Like, first of all, I'm not going to. Second of all, like, that's not a note you can just give someone on Instagram. Like, it's also like, I'm just like, be mad, but just, I don't know, find a private place to do it. I'm not in a place where I want to be critiqued.

[George Sever]

How do you feel? What is your relationship to critique?

[Ally Makofsky]

I think I used to be really bothered by it. I don't know when or how it happened, but I'm like, I don't care.

[George Sever]

I sort of am the same way. I've reached a point of Zen about it where I almost see it as, like, I'm watching a reality show in the comment section, and I'm like, ooh, there's a new character. And her thing is that she's actually commenting like this to every existing comment.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I mean, I. I've looked up all these people, Every single one. I know where they live. I know what their deal is. I am not. So you know how, like, we've talked about how people are. Don't have, like, Internet media literacy especially, and they'll post something really stupid.

[George Sever]

We're the only people that do, actually.

[Sam Taggart]

And so when people. People post something like, share this to say, Mark Zuckerberg, you can't have my data.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, I'm ready to make a. If any graphic designers are out there, I want a blurry graphic that says, share this. If you are not in a place to be critiqued, if you share this photo, you are not allowed to comment.

[Ally Makofsky]

No comments, no questions. Concerns.

[Sam Taggart]

There's also something. It does bother me too, where it's like the. The way that it's the same comment is like, you have to look at what's already been said and be like, oh, that's. That's been taken.

[Ally Makofsky]

I think you need to. I think you need to lean into it and start posting more controversial clips. So then that way, there's just so many critiques that you are like, well, I just. I personally cannot take critiques, so I.

[George Sever]

Agree with you not to, but Sam doesn't want to do that. But then when we do it, you get very.

[Sam Taggart]

I liked it at first.

[Ally Makofsky]

I liked it at first. Exposure therapy.

[George Sever]

Sam literally wants. Sam is like, george.

[Sam Taggart]

I liked it at first. I liked, like, four. When they were four comments, I was like, I'm in heaven.

[George Sever]

Yeah, but you can't.

[Sam Taggart]

When there were 20 comments, I was like, no, no, no.

[George Sever]

Can I say that?

[Ally Makofsky]

No, that's even better. 20 is better than star is way more personal. 20. It's like, oh, they're just repeating each other.

[George Sever]

And that's when. And also, it starts to feel like bots.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it does start to feel like bots.

[George Sever]

When someone sees that there's already a bunch of comments, it feels less personal for them, too. They're like. And this is. I mean, I hate to say, but we are also. I mean, not that you and I are commenting on random.

[Sam Taggart]

I've never commented.

[George Sever]

I know, but like, when something is suddenly. When something has more traction, it feels More faceless. And it's. It might as well be, like, a clip from local. Something that's, like, going viral, I guess. Okay, here's what I think is happening. We are so obsessed with telling other people they don't have Internet literacy, but then when things like this happen to us, that happen to everyone, we're suddenly like, I'm sorry, why am I being attacked?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, there is something where I'm like, we've always stayed in our general pool. Like, everyone that likes our podcast, like.

[George Sever]

Is it to have a guest and be, like, talking at you, having issues with the client?

[Sam Taggart]

I think it's almost like a therapist sort of witnessing being able to please. Yeah. But I think, like, before we've been in. And this is what I said was good before, where I said like this. With this clip, I feel like we're letting go of the wall in the pool and we're kind of going into the deep end.

[George Sever]

Yeah.

[Ally Makofsky]

We're like, that's. But that's good because say for every. If. If you're opening the pool or whatever, more people are saying this that aren't in the group. That means, like, for every one shady comment, that's like, maybe at least one to one ratio of one new person being like, oh, I kind of like this. But they're not going to comment because. Because no one comments anything normal or boring. No one's going to comment. I like this. They're going to be like, yes, coins. I'm like, fuck you. There's no.

[George Sever]

It's like the silent. The silent normal majority.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yes.

[George Sever]

And this is across the board. This is actually.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, all the listeners out there. I am issuing the Spread Love Challenge. If you watch a video and you say, this is good, and you want to spread some love, comment. This is good, period.

[Ally Makofsky]

See, but then you have to reverse psychology. This is what you have to. You have to reverse psychology and be like, no, bring it. Give me your harshest thing. Because when you allow people to say mean stuff, then they're gonna go so easy.

[Sam Taggart]

That's true.

[Ally Makofsky]

Now it's like, well, this isn't fun anymore.

[Sam Taggart]

That's true. Okay, lesbians, hit us with everything you've got.

[George Sever]

Okay?

[Sam Taggart]

Recommend that literature in a way that we could never, ever imagine.

[George Sever]

We are not in a fight with.

[Sam Taggart]

Lesbians with this post. We are.

[George Sever]

I mean, we can't. My final word personally on this is just like, we amplify queer women's voices so often, and it's like, the people we love the most are queer women, and it hurts so much to see them turn on us.

[Sam Taggart]

Ooh, this is a good clip.

[George Sever]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

Oh, my God.

[Sam Taggart]

See, you're thinking.

[George Sever]

You, like, you want this to happen again.

[Ally Makofsky]

Wait, but what was the original clip? Just that there's masc and femme.

[George Sever]

I mean, we're definitely being, like, flippant with our judgments, and we know that we're being very much like, oh, God, we can't go into it again. We're being just like, we had Lisa Trigon, and Liza was like, you know, I know many lesbian couples that fall into mask femme norms. And then we are being like, yeah, it's crazy that many lesbians we know fall into mask femme norms, which, by the way, so do. Like, gay guys do, too. They're just like, sort of. Gay guys are just, like, dumber than lesbians.

[Ally Makofsky]

Therapist said this. I have a couples therapist. Is that straight culture? I don't know.

[Sam Taggart]

It's hard to tell.

[George Sever]

It's hard to tell.

[Ally Makofsky]

But my. My couple's therapist, because I'm like, oh, you know, the norms. Blah, blah, blah, male, female. And she's like, no, this comes up a lot in my, like, same sex couple. So, yeah, shout out to Laura for confirming this.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, shout out to Laura.

[George Sever]

Yeah, shout out to. And that's actually the final word on this is shout out to Laura.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

Should we do our first segment?

[Sam Taggart]

I think we should do our first segment.

[Adam]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week for happiness, every night. You need Adam and Eve.

[George Sever]

Yes.

[Adam]

I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in, right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products, has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamAndEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item, plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamAndEve.com code IHEART for 50% OFF.

[Amica Insurance]

Every day, our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.

[Ally Makofsky]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance.

[George Sever]

Hey, I was just in an accident.

[Ally Makofsky]

Don't worry. We'll get you taken care of.

[Amica Insurance]

At Ameca, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking. It's human. Amica empathy is our best policy.

[Hannah Jewell]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spring is in full swing, so take some time for Self Care this spring. Now through April 22nd. Buy two self care items and save $2. Shop in store or online for self care essentials like Tom's Toothpaste Soft Soap, Liquid Hand Soap, Colgate Optic White Toothpaste and Colgate Total toothpaste and save $2 when you buy two participating items. Offer ends April 22. Promotions may vary. Restrictions apply. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[H]

There's an efficient way to get caught up on a lot of news. It's called the seven from the Washington Post. It's a newsletter and podcast. Whether you're reading or hit play, you get seven stories you need to know and you can consume it all in just a few minutes. The 7 is out every weekday morning by 7:00am Eastern. I'm Hannah Jewell, I'm one of the writers and I host the show Find the seven Podcast wherever you're listening. The newsletter link is waiting for you in the show.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Notes.

[George Sever]

Our first segment is called Straight Shooters and in this segment we test your familiarity with and complicity in straight culture by asking you a series of rapid fire questions where you have to choo one thing or another thing. It's sort of a rack test to see how your minds are working.

[Ally Makofsky]

Okay.

[George Sever]

And the one rule is you can't ask any follow up questions about how the game works because if you do, we're going to be really mad at you. Don't try to look for logic.

[Ally Makofsky]

Okay. So I just say that's a question.

[Sam Taggart]

That's a question.

[Ally Makofsky]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Hold on. I have to find them. Okay. Ally. A cloudy day or a pouty gay?

[Ally Makofsky]

A cloudy day.

[George Sever]

Rilo Kiley or Riley Keough?

[Ally Makofsky]

Riley Keough.

[Sam Taggart]

Whoa. A new season of White Lotus or a new reason to fight potus.

[Ally Makofsky]

Ooh, a new reason to fight potus.

[George Sever]

Yay. Woo. The Woke Mind virus or the folk music resurgence?

[Ally Makofsky]

Oh, the.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, totally.

[Ally Makofsky]

Cause I don't know if I'm liking these or not liking these. The Woke Mind Virus.

[George Sever]

She went there.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Recommending a book or complimenting a cook.

[Ally Makofsky]

Oh, complimenting a cook.

[George Sever]

Skipping leg day or dipping to Beyonce?

[Ally Makofsky]

Skipping leg day.

[Sam Taggart]

Subscribing to a substack or whining after a nut tap?

[Ally Makofsky]

Whining after a nut tap.

[George Sever]

A professionally trained ballerina or a suspiciously blood stained pashmina.

[Ally Makofsky]

Ooh, a suspiciously blood stained pashmina.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow, that was dramatic.

[Ally Makofsky]

What do you guys think about that?

[George Sever]

Okay, so we rank our guest performance on a scale of 0 to 1000 doves. And I actually think that was a really good performance.

[Sam Taggart]

I think that was an amazing performance. There was wonder, There was natural curiosity. There was confidence, but not arrogance.

[George Sever]

You were a woman in the beginning of a rom com who is like, everything is going really well in her life. But there's one thing missing. Like, you had a natural air of curiosity about you. There was so much happening behind your eyes. You were giving a really great, grounded performance, and it made me think, like, I want to know what makes this girl tick.

[Ally Makofsky]

Wow. Thank you.

[Sam Taggart]

So I'd say 823 doves.

[Ally Makofsky]

Thank you.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, of course.

[Ally Makofsky]

I love being talked about. Like, you just said something. I'm like, wow, keep going. What else?

[George Sever]

Yeah, well, you know, I told you this before we were recording, but your hair is, like, so, like, beautiful.

[Ally Makofsky]

Thank you.

[George Sever]

And, like, it's actually very Los Angeles.

[Sam Taggart]

Woman, you know, now that you're saying that, it makes so much sense. But I had no idea you were west coast.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah. People think I'm like, maybe some. Sometimes people say Midwest, Sometimes people say Southern. But I think it's because I kind of mumble.

[George Sever]

No. But there are hints of a California accent.

[Ally Makofsky]

Oh, really?

[George Sever]

Now I'm hearing not like, not super intense. It's not like valley girl. But there's a California cadence that I am familiar with.

[Ally Makofsky]

Okay. I guess here's. Here's the weird thing that doesn't make sense.

[George Sever]

Uhhuh.

[Ally Makofsky]

How. Okay, I'm going to spell a word. You say it.

[George Sever]

Okay.

[Ally Makofsky]

F, O, U, N, T, A, I, N. Fountain.

[Sam Taggart]

Fountain.

[Ally Makofsky]

I say fountain.

[George Sever]

Fountain.

[Ally Makofsky]

Fountain. Mountain.

[George Sever]

Fountain. Fountain.

[Sam Taggart]

Mountain. Fountain. Fountain.

[Ally Makofsky]

And then like, my boyfriend makes fun of me because me and my mom and my sister say. I guess we say milk.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, you're milk.

[George Sever]

That's such a. Yeah, that's a very.

[Sam Taggart]

But I feel like that's like mid Atlantic. That's like Maryland in my mind.

[George Sever]

Oh, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Milk.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah. I don't know. So that. But everyone in my family, like my parents, that everyone's like, California.

[George Sever]

I recently realized I've been saying scars instead of scarce.

[Ally Makofsky]

Whoa.

[George Sever]

And no one has ever corrected my me. Whoa. Even though I obviously have heard other people say that.

[Ally Makofsky]

I think that's a great sign of who you are that people just go, he knows. What? Yeah, he knows. I'm. Surely I'm the wrong one here.

[George Sever]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Or maybe they're like, really goes again. Scars. Jesus Christ.

[Sam Taggart]

I. I guess I've never heard you say that word before.

[George Sever]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

What. What was the moment that clicked?

[George Sever]

My husband corrected me.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[George Sever]

Yeah. He said, if you want to stay in this marriage, you better learn how.

[Sam Taggart]

To say now that. Now that it's locked down, I can finally be honest with you. You say this wrong.

[George Sever]

I also do struggle with saying the word singer.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah, singer.

[George Sever]

I think that's how I'm supposed to say it, but I get really caught up.

[Ally Makofsky]

You like to pronunciate singer? Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Singer.

[George Sever]

Singer.

[Sam Taggart]

I love when people say singer.

[Ally Makofsky]

I'm like, it's funny.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Ally Makofsky]

Because I'm a singer.

[Sam Taggart]

To me, saying singer is so like. You are like a mother of two. But you still think you've like got a shot at making it. Being a singer. Yeah. America's Got Talent. And you're like being interviewed and you're like, I've just always wanted to be a singer.

[Ally Makofsky]

I feel like now that you're saying it, I'm like, it's a bad word. Yeah, like. Like it doesn't. It doesn't.

[George Sever]

Singer could be a. Yeah, it's a bad word. As in it's a slur or it's a bad word. Like.

[Ally Makofsky]

Well, depending on who's singing.

[George Sever]

Depending on who's singing.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

If you yourself are a singer, you can say singer, but I think it's.

[Ally Makofsky]

Just a weird word. It is a weird bad word. Oh, yeah, Singer.

[Sam Taggart]

It's not right.

[Ally Makofsky]

No, it doesn't. There's no flow.

[George Sever]

I'm thinking of. Okay, so like bringer, like anything with.

[Ally Makofsky]

A G, E, R. It's not gotta flow or I guess N. You know.

[Sam Taggart]

What does work though? Finger does kind of finger flow.

[Ally Makofsky]

Finger.

[George Sever]

Because you would never say finger.

[Ally Makofsky]

Finger. No. Finger. Yeah, that actually. That's so true.

[George Sever]

Finger is one of those words that's like. That is exactly what that is meant to be.

[Ally Makofsky]

Finger.

[George Sever]

Finger, which growth. Finger. Already kind of gross and witchy. And then of course, the disgusting term fingering. Like, of course.

[Ally Makofsky]

I love that term. It's got a ring to it. Finger. Ring.

[Sam Taggart]

It's just.

[George Sever]

There's no way to be elegant on it. There's no way to be elegant while saying the term fingering.

[Sam Taggart]

I like it because it's always juvenile. If you were getting fingered, you're like, in my car, like, everyone's getting fingered. Just getting fingered in a car.

[George Sever]

It's like, ok, but you can't be like, you know, Julie Andrews and be like, oh, I was fingered.

[Ally Makofsky]

But it's not for her.

[George Sever]

It's not for her. She's never been fingered.

[Sam Taggart]

Do British people have a different word for fingering? Oh, I'm sure they need one.

[George Sever]

Yeah. They're like, I was digitized oh.

[Sam Taggart]

Actually.

[George Sever]

I'm gonna start saying digitized. I was digitized. Yeah.

[Ally Makofsky]

I think I. I think that jack off is a horrible.

[George Sever]

I agree.

[Ally Makofsky]

Phrase.

[George Sever]

Okay, here's a question for you.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

Did you grow up with jacking off or jerking off?

[Ally Makofsky]

I don't know. I don't know. I feel like I wasn't doing much of that growing up.

[George Sever]

100 and I'm.

[Ally Makofsky]

And I wasn't part of the dialogue around it.

[Sam Taggart]

You removed yourself from that conversation.

[Ally Makofsky]

I feel like, though, like, if I'm trying to remember being a teen, I feel like everyone was probably jerking off. I feel like jerking was more.

[George Sever]

I grew up.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm, like, trying to go back to.

[George Sever]

Childhood and remember I grew up with jacking. But then I actually think after I came out, jerking became more. Among gay guys, it became more ironic. But I think even it's like, you know, it's like the difference between dick and cock.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

[George Sever]

Cock has a more, like, sexy connotation, and I think Jerk Kirk versus Jack also has that.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah, Jack and cock both just sound more aggressive.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I've heard of Jack and Kirk, but Jack and cock.

[George Sever]

Jack and cock. Wait, should we get into our topic?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, we should.

[Ally Makofsky]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. So what is your topic today? And, you know, what is roughly straight about it to you?

[Ally Makofsky]

Okay, so. So many crossed my mind, but I guess something that I feel like is a very straight concept is like, YouTube celebrities and YouTube controversies.

[George Sever]

Yeah.

[Ally Makofsky]

So, I mean, the. The main one being anything surrounding Brianna Chicken Fry, I. E. Zach Bryan, I. E. Barstool, I. E. Dave Portnoy. I feel like that universe in the kind of mainstream YouTube universe is pretty straight.

[George Sever]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I would have to agree. It's. Even when you first suggested this topic, I was like, brianna Chicken Fry. I was like, what does that mean? I've never heard of this. And then I had to go back and be like, wait, I did hear about this on the only straight podcast I listened to. And even still, I didn't understand it. And they talk about it all the time. And I don't get it.

[George Sever]

The thing with. So I'm the same way with. On OOH Weekly, they talk about Brianna Chicken Fry a lot. And the way I quite literally love those. Both of those girls to death, but as soon as the name is mentioned, I tone it. I cannot physically pay attention because I.

[Ally Makofsky]

Think the name in it of itself. Chicken Fry. It's not her real last name. For anyone who doesn't know, it's a name that she gave herself. And even that is like, what's something that guys will get into? Like, my name's Brianna. I'm a girl. But if I say chicken fry, then guys might open their ears a little.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm a cool girl.

[George Sever]

But it's also. There is something so transcendent about it because to me, Brianna Chicken Fry is quite literally like what a drag name would be if there were no gay people ever. Like, it's like, it is a completely. It's like if a bunch of straight men and straight women got together and they were like, let's think of a drag name. No gay people are allowed to weigh in. They would come up with specifically Brianna. Like, that would be the first name. Brianna Chicken Fry. And there is something actually so beautiful about that. Like, it's almost like, you know, when you watch something so, like, aggressively kind of bro y like the hangover movies or something, you have to really respect how amazing of a document it is. Like, it is so beautiful that we live in a world with Brianna Chicken Fry. I could have never thought of that.

[Ally Makofsky]

And it's balance. You know, you need Brianna Chicken Fry so you can get, you know, a Trisha Paytas. Like, there's a balance.

[Sam Taggart]

So what is the chicken fry controversy?

[Ally Makofsky]

So, I don't know. I mean, it goes deep. I mean, first of all, you're a barstool. You know, your boss is Dave Portnoy. He's gonna kind of puppeteer the way he does. And so Brianna Chicken Fry, the initial main controversy was she got into a relationship with this country boy, Zach Bryan, and Zach Brian was in a relationship. So their relationship started off with this, like, what's the timeline? Did they get together before? Yeah. Is there any cheating? Whatever. So the relationship was already kind of doomed from the beginning. And then throughout the course of the relationship, Brianna's like, becoming a roadie for her man. She is going on tour. She is, you know, supportive at all the venues. It's never a good sign when she's, like, making tick tock videos, being like, you want to come to the show? Like, you're so sweet. It's like, don't be promoted. Like, you're not the promoter. Yeah, yeah. And then she kind of started dressing and acting like his ex girlfriend. Yeah. So there were kind of some, like, you know, videos side by side. Being like, she's wearing the same hat that the ex girlfriend would always wear.

[George Sever]

Oh, and that was perceived as shade?

[Ally Makofsky]

No, it was like.

[George Sever]

It was like.

[Ally Makofsky]

It was like, she's trying. Yeah, she's trying to, like, be the ex.

[George Sever]

Like, something maybe Things like Kanye's new girlfriend. It's like, what's Kanye's new girlfriend?

[Ally Makofsky]

Bianca Sansori.

[George Sever]

Bianca Censori. Talk about the Brianna chicken fry of her time.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

It's like how she's being Kim or whatever.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Sever]

I mean, the difference, of course, is that she's not really in control, but go on.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah. So then the relationship comes to a screeching halt. And once again, Zack Bryan has maybe moved on during the relationship, but also it comes out that he is potentially kind of abusive a little bit. And not, I don't think physically, but I think emotionally and all the other non physical thing ways that you can be abusive psychologically. And. And so everyone's kind of back on Team Brianna because for a while everyone was like, I see she's doing too much. She's, you know, losing herself. And. And then, you know, she comes out, she says these things about Zach, one of her best friends, who she does her podcast with. Grace O'Malley is defending her. She's like, you know, helping her out, being a good friend. So everyone's in Brianna's. Everyone's like, team Brianna at this point, because they're like, she went through a lot. We don't know what it was like. All past is forgiven. But then Brianna turns her back on her best friend Grace. And so now everyone's like, f Brianna, we're team Grace and F Zach, Brian and Brianna. Because Brianna, the stuff that she was saying about Zach, all the bad stuff she was saying about Zach, she was doing the exact same thing to her best friend Grace.

[George Sever]

She was gaslighting. She was being emotionally manipulative.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah. She's like, I brought Grace out to New York to do this podcast with me, and she's not thankful. And it's like, that's exactly what you were saying about Zach.

[George Sever]

There's something so beautiful about the crowd, sort of at the end of the day, finding the truth. It's like, first they didn't like him, then they didn't like her, then they had this moment where they were like, oh, right, they both suck.

[Sam Taggart]

It's a nice narrative.

[George Sever]

And in fact, we support the supporting actress in the scenario, which is Grace O'Malley.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yes. Everyone is lifting her up right now.

[George Sever]

Yes, we are. And I want to join them in lifting up Grace O'Malley.

[Sam Taggart]

But you know, George, nothing's ever over. And who knows what manipulative things Grace O'Malley will come out as having done.

[George Sever]

As a wise woman once said.

[Sam Taggart]

And this clip will go over.

[George Sever]

Doesn't mean it's really over. And if it's really over, then it's literally over again.

[Ally Makofsky]

Guess it's never really over.

[George Sever]

Okay, so I have many thoughts about this. To me, something that is very straight about almost like either YouTuber or creator drama is that I think in my experience the drama stems from very like almost conservative heteronormative values. It's always about like, it's about cheating, it's about marriage, it's about like this very sort of antiquated idea of like properness. Like, was this a proper thing to do? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, it's never that someone. You know what's like a gay scandal? Like what's like.

[Sam Taggart]

It's like a gay scandal is like Someone's Tumblr from 20 years ago came out and they were like, crazy.

[George Sever]

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. Because okay. Of course the exception to all of this that we have to encounter the.

[Sam Taggart]

Scandal is that someone stole someone's dancers.

[George Sever]

Yes, exactly.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yes.

[George Sever]

Which that has nothing to do with. Okay, so here's what it is. I actually think loyalty related things. I think on the one side you have faithful, like, being faithful, monogamy, gender dynamics, blah, blah. And on the other side you have non gendered loyalty. Non gendered loyalty is gay. And then like marriage and cheating and stuff is straight. Yeah. Which is why I think, of course the big exception to everything we're saying is the James, Charles and Toddi drama because that was all about loyalty between a straight woman and a gay man.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I think so.

[George Sever]

But that sort of is like the exception that proves the rule. It's like we had one big gay scandal and they actually crushed it so hard that we never need to have another one again. And since then, people like Brianna Chicken Fry have been trying to capture that magic well.

[Ally Makofsky]

And I feel like maybe with like Tati and James, there's like so many layers to it with Tati being an older woman, James being a young, young man at the time, and then like James's own controversies. Whereas I feel like with a Brianna Chicken Fry, everything's just very much like this and this and this. Like it's all very chronological and like. Yeah, I don't know, there's something about.

[Sam Taggart]

It too that feels straight, where it's about. That's like a small town drama.

[George Sever]

Like it's something Jane Austen.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, you're like in on like, oh, that family actually, they actually have trouble and they. Well, they're getting divorced actually. And whisper, whisper, whisper. And there's something where it's like we don't have towns anymore. There's no community anymore. So we have to find our small town drama in the weird YouTube celebrity.

[George Sever]

Yeah, our small villages are like YouTube communities that are like the beauty community, the barstool sports community.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Sever]

And then we all get to be Belle in Beauty and the Beast, like, like prancing around with our book.

[Ally Makofsky]

I wonder too if it's like, because people like Brianna Chicken Fry who are like very public facing, like influencer and not celebrities, we know we're seeing so much of them and we are invited to be a part of their lives. And so we analyze it, we're analyzing it so much deeper because it's almost like a close friend or family member. Whereas like someone like, you know, Taylor Swift and Katy Perry's dancers, we. We don't know very much about them personally. So we're like. And that's the drama is the dancers. Yeah, but if Katy Perry were to post all the time, we'd have so much more to say.

[George Sever]

Yeah, it's, it's. There are sort of like three types of dramas one can follow in this day and age.

[Sam Taggart]

Uh oh.

[George Sever]

One is traditional celebrity news. It's like Taylor Swift, whatever. One is reality show where it's like one step below where, yes, they're not real celebrities, but they are on television. They're like fully in traditional media. And then the third, is this what we're talking about about here, which is like creator drama?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. You would think creator drama would be gayer.

[George Sever]

I know, that's what I'm struggling with. It's like.

[Sam Taggart]

But I think we underestimate how popular this stuff is in straight culture. Yeah, I think that's a big part of it, which is something that we are struggling with in general. Like, I genuinely like someone like Joe Rogan, who is like the biggest podcaster ever. Like, I'm like, I don't know a single person who listens to him. And that is like, like bizarre.

[George Sever]

Yeah, it's like how Stranger Things is the biggest television show ever and I don't know anyone who watches it.

[Sam Taggart]

And I'm like, I really want to believe my own worldview, but it doesn't reflect what the world actually is.

[George Sever]

Yeah, I think that, I think gay people, I think gay people. Oh, clip this, clip this, clip this. Regardless of who is, numbers wise, most popular, I think gay people are drawn to glamour. Like, they want the A list celebrity, they want the pop star, they want like the diva. Whereas I think straight people are attracted to the more like everyday village type thing.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[George Sever]

Don't you think, like, that's really interesting? I think it is gayer to care more about people that are less reachable, people that are more glamorous and distant. Because you want the mythology and you want the like, like the sort of like, magic of it. And when you. When I see some random creator, I actually, it actually sort of makes me sad. I'm like, g. They're like, trying so hard to be famous. Unlike Lady Gaga, who was born famous.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, well. And I feel like I don't know if this has crossed over into any sort of gay TikTok culture, but like, the rise of trad wives, it's like, I feel like straight culture is like lifting something up and then tearing it down. Because it's like all of us were watching these trad wives being like, oh, my God, I love. She makes pies from scratch and has eggs and chickens and whatever. But then it's like, but she does. But her husband is she. She actually is doing this and it's like, yeah, she's showing us what she's doing. It's like we fall very easily for things where it's like, we'll see a trad wife and be like, oh, this is a performance. Whereas gay people see Beyonce and they're like, that's a performance. We see a trad wife and we're like, she's putting on a show and realized, no, okay, this is genius, because.

[George Sever]

I think you're also okay. Another great difference all between gay and straight is like, the gay way to view something is as a performance and the straight way to view it is literal. So you are more likely to get invested in Briana Chicken Fry's literal day to day life. Whereas a gay person sees that and is like, oh, she's being sort of like cheeky and funny because she's like getting on a podcast and talking about her life in this, like, meta way or whatever.

[Ally Makofsky]

That actually makes so much sense in terms of like, when Lady Gaga was first, like, coming up. And like, you know, my parents are just like. Straight people in general are like, why is she wearing meat? Like, like, oh, does she have a penis? Or whatever it is. Oh, she's Satan. Like, she's bleeding out of her stomach at the VMAs. It's like, yeah, it's like everything is very.

[George Sever]

Whereas gay people are. Are like, first of all, paws up.

[Ally Makofsky]

Monstrous.

[George Sever]

Yeah, like, it's like gay people are. When she's showing up wearing a meat dress made of literal meat, no gay person is like, what kind of meat is that? And where did she get it? That's not what it's about.

[Sam Taggart]

There's something. So I was, you know, listening to our dear friend Sophie Buttle on Marc Maron, and she talked about Tall Poppy syndrome, which I had never heard of.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah, me neither.

[Sam Taggart]

I love what's Tall Poppy syndrome? So Tall Poppy syndrome, she said, it's like a Canadian thing where, like, if you are you should. They discourage you from being a tall poppy. They want you to be the same height as all the other poppies. So if you're a tall poppy, they'll cut you. And so she's like, I went to America because I wanted to be a tall poppy. And like, in. In Canadian. In Canada, they would cut you down. I see. And so, like, there's something here where straight people still have, like, tall poppy syndrome. Like, they. They like their celebs to match them.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, they're like, that's a normal person. Whereas, like, when Lady Gaga wants to be crazy, gay people are like, that's good. Finally, a tall poppy.

[George Sever]

I mean, all of this relates back to, like, the concept of relatability. For example, like, the. The idea, the appeal of a quote unquote, girl next door is a very straight thing. It's like, very straight to be like, I'm turning on my TV and what I want is someone that looks like the girl next door to me. Whereas the caper is turning on the TV and is like, if she doesn't have literally five breasts and she's breastfeeding a guinea pig on each one, I'm turning this off.

[Ally Makofsky]

And I wonder if. If this, like, I mean, maybe this goes. But. Okay, I'm putting on my smart hat or maybe my stupid hat.

[Sam Taggart]

It's hard.

[George Sever]

They look so hard to tell when you're getting dressed.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yes. And I feel the same in both.

[George Sever]

Yeah.

[Ally Makofsky]

But I think. I wonder if. Because societally, it's safer as a gay, queer, whatever, person, to blend in, stay safe, don't break the mold, don't be a tall poppy. Just fit in, level out. So then when you see someone like. Like Lady Gaga, you're like. Like, she represents all of us. It's safe for her to be big and bold, and I get to stay here and support that. Whereas, like, a straight person, it's like, everyone can be the tallest poppy ever. Like, who cares?

[Adam]

Whatever.

[Ally Makofsky]

Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's not dangerous for me to wear a meat dress.

[George Sever]

I see. Yes. So it's not empowering when you see someone in A meat dress, you're. You're not empowered by it.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Sever]

Because you're like, yeah, I could do that any day.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah, sure, I'll come on to me.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Just a little uncomfortable is all.

[Ally Makofsky]

But it's like, there's already enough. Enough judgments from society about just existing as a gay person.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Ally Makofsky]

So when you see someone existing in this crazy, loud, big way, like, defiant. Yeah. It's. It's better than a Brianna Chicken Fry who's just wearing, like, you know, denim short shorts and going to country concerts.

[George Sever]

Right. Because Brianna Chicken Fry could potentially bully you. She is. She could. You never know where you stand with her. Whereas someone in a meat dress, you're like, well, you're even weirder than I am.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I'm curious. Because the world is so vast. Of course I'm like, there are gay people that are like, I listen to Brianna Chicken Fry every single week, and I would love to know what those people are like.

[Ally Makofsky]

See, but that's what I was. Any topic I thought of bringing in, I'm like, okay, but definitely there's a gay audience for this. But with brown and chicken fry, I'm like, where?

[Sam Taggart]

No, I mean, I think you could literally count them on one hand.

[George Sever]

Yeah. I mean, they're all gonna write in now. Brianna Chicken fries.

[Sam Taggart]

I want. I want this clipped. And I want you to comment. Read a book.

[George Sever]

Oh, my God. I would love a roundtable of gay Barstool listeners. Like, gay guys specifically.

[Ally Makofsky]

Well, so there is a podcast on Barstool with thank you for this perspective as the host. So that's why I. But. But even still, because it's at Barstool, I'm like, they're just filling a quota. It doesn't feel like they genuinely wanted that at Barstool. Yeah, but they' oh, these are the most inoffensive gay men. I've done their podcast. They're great. But I'm like, do they feel welcomed in this environment? I'm glad that they have it. But do they like being there?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Like, when that was announced, was there, like, shit talking comments?

[Ally Makofsky]

Like, I'm sure there's got to have.

[Sam Taggart]

Been if I know anything, which maybe I don't. Stupid hat. Smart hat looks so similar.

[George Sever]

Wow. What if we got acquired by Barstool?

[Sam Taggart]

That would be so iconic.

[George Sever]

That would be iconic. Okay. I'm trying to think of other.

[Ally Makofsky]

Well, I'm gonna. I'm gonna rattle off just in terms of, like, youtubish, like, not famous, but famous straight things. Okay, so we have brown and Chicken fry. Obviously we have barstool as an umbrella. We have. I. I would say Alex Cooper. Of course I would say Alex Cooper.

[George Sever]

Call your daddy.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, everyone's yelling at me.

[George Sever]

I'm actually, I have to say, I'm still shocked about your. Nobody wants this ignorance. And now, oh my God, my own.

[Sam Taggart]

Co host is telling me to read a book now to add call her daddy to that.

[George Sever]

I'm like, you don't support female podcasters.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, yeah. What's your favorite call your daddy episode?

[George Sever]

The one with Kamala.

[Ally Makofsky]

The woke mind virus. Also the Paul brothers.

[George Sever]

Yes.

[Ally Makofsky]

Logan and Jake Paul. Yeah, the streamer Kai Sanat.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, sure.

[George Sever]

The Paul brothers is a big one. And actually I feel there was a moment so I watched the Jake Paul Mike Tyson fight and there was a moment when I was watching that where I was like, like I almost like left my body. Trump had just gotten elected like a week earlier and I almost left my body and was like, this is a actual shift in culture. Like there is something about the fact that suddenly literally everyone is on Netflix watching this, like, extremely depressing and dark event that was started because a. A YouTuber turned whatever boxer is challenging someone who was a part of pop culture 40 years ago and now is sort of washed up and blah, blah, blah. And then Jake Paul won in his speech was like, america's back, y'all. I can feel it. Yeah, I just felt such. It's like every thought left my mind and I was like, we have to reinvent the playbook because what we're doing is not working here, folks.

[Sam Taggart]

Damn, that's a bummer.

[George Sever]

You know what I mean? And I almost think, actually, I almost think that that fight was like the apotheosis of YouTuber drama. It's like we took it to the farthest level we could take it to was a Netflix streamed boxing match between Mike Tyson and Jake Paul. You know what I mean?

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

It's almost like that's like the Oscars of. Of this world.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Speaking of Oscars, I think Hawk Tua should have her own movie.

[George Sever]

Oh, yeah, well, she's actually not doing her podcast anymore because there was so.

[Ally Makofsky]

Much pushback bitcoin scandal when she released her book.

[Sam Taggart]

I love the bitcoin scandal.

[Ally Makofsky]

I love it. And it's not her fault.

[Sam Taggart]

It's not her fault.

[Ally Makofsky]

She's working with the goddamn Paul brothers.

[Sam Taggart]

Hawk to a innocent.

[Ally Makofsky]

Hawk to is innocent. And you know what? I think she's just around the wrong people. I think she's got a good big heart.

[Sam Taggart]

Ms. Haley Welch I think she's got a great big heart. Heart?

[George Sever]

You guys are insane.

[Ally Makofsky]

She loves animals. She's from a small little town.

[Sam Taggart]

This has been forced upon her as if, you know, you know, say, say.

[Ally Makofsky]

Straight culture got to her because she made a very funny, silly little blowjob joke. And guys grow the. The rise of Haktua is a straight male event.

[George Sever]

100%.

[Ally Makofsky]

Watching that as a woman, I'm like, oh, haha. Like, funny guys are like, oh yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Finally a girl who's fucking cool.

[George Sever]

What you're saying is another example of like, performance versus, like interpreting something as a performance versus interpreting it as literal reality. It's like Hawk Tua, if things were right in the world, we would all just be like, you go girl. Like, what a funny thing to say. And like, you know, okay, let's make some merch and let's get you, you know, there's a huck to a Halloween costume, blah, blah, and then we can all move on. But then the literal way is then people debating like, what that look like? How do you actually spit on it and does that mean that she's slutty and what is her? How do you feel about Hawk? It's like immediately taking any fun out of it.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah. I knew it was over when both of my brother in laws had referenced it and I was like, this shouldn't have gotten to you. This wasn't for you.

[Sam Taggart]

This should not have gotten to you.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah. I also think that street interviews, aside from Billy Eichner and like that guy Chris Clemens, I think in general, just people being like gay son or thought daughter, that's very strict.

[Sam Taggart]

It's so I'm actually frustrated with it because like Billy Eichner did it so well and it was like comedic and good. And then like now it's like literally everyone is doing it and no one is trying to do anything comedic with it at all. They're just like, I just want to be on a camera holding a little.

[Ally Makofsky]

Microphone because Billy is the funny person in the man on the street, whereas these people, like the Hawk tua, she was the funny person, not the guy. No one knows the person who put the microphone in her face because there. There's no brain behind that. No, it's the people talking. Everyone's just relying on other people for their content.

[Sam Taggart]

But did you guys see the clip where she was like talking to people?

[Ally Makofsky]

Bye, y'all. I gotta go to bed. I gotta go to bed. Talk to you in the morning.

[Sam Taggart]

I gotta go to bed.

[Ally Makofsky]

I love that so much.

[Sam Taggart]

So funny. And then they didn't hear from her for weeks.

[Ally Makofsky]

That's what you gotta say in the comments when people are like, read a book. Be like, I gotta go to bed. See you in the morning.

[Sam Taggart]

See you in the morning.

[George Sever]

It was so funny. Maybe it's like this interview thing. It's almost like on one end of the spectrum, we have girls Gone wild, Literally predatory men asking drunk women to take their clothes off. And then on the other side of it, we have like, Jiminy. What's his name? Oh my God. Martin Short's character.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Ally Makofsky]

Oh, yeah.

[George Sever]

Jiminy Glick, which is like, he's. He's the butt of the joke.

[Sam Taggart]

Uhhuh.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

And you got like, Jiminy Glick. Gay girls Gone wild to straight.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah, you.

[George Sever]

The interviewer has to. There has to be talent in the interviewer, and it has to be rooted in performance rather than going around making fun of people.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I fully agree. I think we've solved it pretty much.

[George Sever]

Interesting. Any final thoughts on YouTuber dramas and. Or. Sorry, is it.

[Sam Taggart]

No, no, we're good.

[George Sever]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

I guess, like, I'm just like. The problem that I'm struggling with is that it won't. It's only going to get bigger.

[George Sever]

No, I know, I know.

[Sam Taggart]

This, like, type of culture is so deeply popular among people I've never met in my life and will keep getting more and more popular. And I'm like, bummed out by it, actually.

[Ally Makofsky]

I think what needs to happen. The shift is that gay people need to make more boring content. The way that straight people have dominated the boring content market.

[Sam Taggart]

You know, you're so gay.

[Ally Makofsky]

People put so much thought into it.

[George Sever]

People are overrated.

[Sam Taggart]

Writing.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah, we need to write so much thought. Production value. Turn it down.

[George Sever]

Gotta say, Ali, I think a lot of people are already heeding your advice. Based on what I'm seeing on some of my suggested content out there.

[Sam Taggart]

Or.

[Ally Makofsky]

Or have just like. Like have more boring drama that people can get upset over.

[George Sever]

Yeah.

[Ally Makofsky]

Like relationship drama. Mess it like messy stuff.

[Sam Taggart]

When. When gay people eradicated the concept of cheating, that's when things got hard.

[George Sever]

That's when things got difficult. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Because that's such an easy generation creator of drama. And it's like, first of all gonna happen no matter what. So it's like, if we just kept that as like, the big dramatic event, God, we'd be fine.

[Ally Makofsky]

Because Jeffree star, I feel like, does a good job of being controversial and mainstream.

[George Sever]

Right. But that's because Jeffrey, he literally will like, murder, you know?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, he also is Like, I just.

[Ally Makofsky]

Like the elk or people.

[George Sever]

Like, I feel like the vibe with him is, like, he could murder at any moment. Moment.

[Ally Makofsky]

I mean, he's successful.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. There's also always a threat with him that he'll, like, release the names of, like, the people he's so.

[Ally Makofsky]

Exactly. That's why people will keep watching.

[George Sever]

That's all they care about.

[Ally Makofsky]

We need more threats in our content. Like, some sort of mystery that we're trying to crack.

[George Sever]

I mean, you know what the equivalent of cheating is with gay creators is, like, closetedness. It's like. It's, like, so and so. Like, this big male celebrity, like, is true.

[Sam Taggart]

True.

[George Sever]

Yeah. Well, I have to say, like, I get such a pit in my stomach when I think of these, like, creator dramas, just because it really is, like, not to sound, like, elitist or something, but it really does feel like the death knell of all culture. Like, it really is. Like, you're just sort of like, how much lower can it get? Like, literally, how much lower can entertainment get than Brianna Chicken Fries? Well, and even, I guess it could.

[Sam Taggart]

Be, like, literally, how much? Like, what else? How can you, like, take away any more, like, production?

[George Sever]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, we used to, like, read stories. We used to watch plays, and then it was like, okay, now we're watching tv. Okay, now we're watching reality tv. Okay, now we're watching. It's like how, like, we're literally just gonna start staring at people on the street and, like, yelling at them.

[George Sever]

Exactly. Everyone is just gonna have, like, a police camera on their chest. And then you're gonna be like, look, he passed by that woman and her hair sucks.

[Sam Taggart]

And then it'll be like, actually, when her hair sucked. That was radical.

[George Sever]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And now we're doing that.

[George Sever]

And then there's gonna be merch. That's like, my hair sucks, too. And then she's gonna have a podcast, and then she's gonna have her own cryptocurrency, and then a signature catchphrase. And then she's gonna be president, and that's gonna be our first woman president.

[Ally Makofsky]

Talk to a girl. I would love maybe Tana Mongeau for president. Do you guys know Tana?

[Sam Taggart]

Who's that?

[Ally Makofsky]

Okay. She has been a YouTuber for a very long time. Oh, Tanacon. Yeah, I remember Tanacon. Yeah.

[George Sever]

Oh, okay. Okay. We don't have that. I do want to bring this up.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[George Sever]

Because something that we just, like, fully haven't mentioned is a big part of this is also, quote unquote, scammer Scandals. Like, Tanacon is a great example of this. It's like she charged her fans this much money, then they showed up and the convention was a scam. Or, like, Caroline Calloway is a classic, like, creator drama that has to do with scamming and I think is more queer. Yeah. So I think it's like scamming. All right. Scamming and loyalty are queer. And then, like, cheating and what else? What's the marriage and marriage. Yeah.

[Ally Makofsky]

Like, it's like. Like presenting a different version. Yeah. Hypocrisy.

[George Sever]

Yeah, totally. Because I. Okay, so hypocrisy and cheating, which I guess are the same.

[Ally Makofsky]

I guess, like morals.

[George Sever]

Morals. Yeah, morals, hypocrisy, and cheating are strong. And loyalty and scamming are queer when it comes to scandals.

[Ally Makofsky]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Sever]

All right. I'm glad we got there.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. Well, should we do our final segment?

[Adam]

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[Amica Insurance]

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[Ally Makofsky]

Thank you for calling Ameca Insurance.

[George Sever]

Hey, I was just in an accident.

[Ally Makofsky]

Don't worry.

[Adam]

We'll get you taken care of.

[Amica Insurance]

At Ameca, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking. It's human. Amica. Empathy is our best policy.

[Hannah Jewell]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spring is in full swing, which means it's time for spring cleaning. Don't worry. We've got everything you need to stock up on spring cleaning essentials. Because a clean home is a happy home. Shop in store or online for spring cleaning favorites like Method All Purpose Cleaner, Swiffer Heavy Duty Mopping Cloths, Lysol Bathroom Cleaner, Scotch Brite Sponges, and Clorox Disinfecting Wipes and Save. Offer ends April 22. Promotions may vary. Restrictions apply. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay, real talk we're all kind of hooked on our phones. It's full of shiny apps designed to keep your attention captive forever. But there's. There's real life stuff to do other than scrolling. And I'm here to help. I'm Christina Quinn, the host of Try this, a podcast from the Washington Post. The show explores solutions for life's common problems. And this season, we're learning to tame the dopamine beast and reclaim our attention in this noisy and distracting world. So let's tame the beast together. Find Try this from the Washington Post. Wherever you listen.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, Our final segment is called Shout Outs. And in this segment, we pay homage to the grand street tradition of the radio. Shout out. And shout out to anything that we are enjoying. People, places, things, ideas, whatever you want in the whole wide world.

[George Sever]

And we think of it on the spot.

[Sam Taggart]

And we'll go first.

[George Sever]

And. And I'm trying to. Do you have one?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I do. Okay. What's up, freaks, losers and perverts around the globe? I want to give a huge shout out to Cloudy Days in Los Angeles. As we all know, I have had my issues with the city, but when. Except when we take those issues away, then I have no issues with it. But when I'm loving it, the most recently is on those cloudy days. And I say, finally, I can be moody. When I was living in New York, of course, anytime it was cloudy, I was on. I needed a check in. I was on a watch list. The clouds could break me. But here, I'm actually a little bit sick of sun. And when it's cloudy, I say, finally, I. I can listen to slow, sad music. Finally, there's not pressure to go outside. And, I don't know, do a CrossFit class every day here. Everyone's saying, why aren't you having the most fun of your entire life? And I say, because that's unsustainable. Well, on a cloudy day, I can be just me. And that is enough. Xoxo, Sam.

[George Sever]

What's up, freaks and losers? I want to give a shout out to the book Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman, published in, I want to say, 1980. Now some scary year. Yeah, it's a very scary year. And it's only gotten scarier since then, folks. So this is a book that has been recommended to me many times, and it's about how television is bad. It's about how television is, like, ruining a literacy, a society that was based on text and reading, and it's making everyone stupider. And there is something so wonderfully nostalgic about remembering when that was the issue everyone cared about. And now everyone is quite literally illiterate and can only speak in sort of grunting noises. And so, you know, if you want to remember just like the real sense of hope that we had in the Reagan 80s, I really highly suggest picking up, amusing ourselves to death. It really still holds up. And a lot of the arguments he makes about television, you could also make about social media. The book literally starts out with him being very dramatically being like, as I'm writing this, a Hollywood actor is sitting in the White House. I was like, damn. Still true.

[Sam Taggart]

Yay.

[George Sever]

So it's very short. It's truly less than 200 pages. I'm sure there's an audiobook of it holding. Hopefully it's read by Brianna Chicken Fry, if we're lucky. And so I gotta say, it really is hitting the spot. And if you want to feel smart without honestly putting that much effort into reading something, I highly recommend it.

[Sam Taggart]

That's huge. Sometimes those types of books bum me out because they are so. Because nothing has changed and actually gotten worse.

[George Sever]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And I'm also like, it's fun to be like, how quaint. And then you're like, oh, but he was right.

[George Sever]

No, he was fully right. It's. It's funny to think back to. There's always some moral panic. And you want to reassure yourself by being like, well, there's always been moral panics. There was one about television. There was one about phones, whatever, radio. And then it's like, right. And they were all right. And things kept getting worse. So what now?

[Sam Taggart]

So what now?

[George Sever]

Well, Ally, whenever you're ready.

[Ally Makofsky]

Do I look into Cam?

[George Sever]

Ooh, you can. Certainly can.

[Sam Taggart]

Wherever you feel comfortable looking.

[Ally Makofsky]

Okay. Hi. I want to make a. A shout out to one of the craziest products I've ever took a chance on. And I'm so glad I did. I. If I were an influencer, this is the only thing I would try and influence people on. And that is the 2 in 1 hair care product from Trader Joe's $5. It's a shampoo and conditioner. It's hydrating. It's the best product ever. You can buy it anywhere. Any Trader Joe's $5. And it sounds sketchy because obviously when you say two in one, there's a lot of preconceived ideas about that. But I took a chance on it. A hair stylist recommended it, and I was like, it's $5. What, do I have to lose my hair? Maybe. But let's try it. I tried it. It's never felt better. It's like a blue bottle. It's grapefruit mint. It smells good. It's not too strong of a scent, but I leave it on. I soak it in my wet hair. I. I rub it in. I rub it in. I leave it in. I brush it out in the shower. When I get out of the shower, I put in just a little bit of leave in condition conditioner. And then I use my trusted, which I think is burning my hair. I don't recommend this, but the dry bar, little curling blow dryer, 2 in 1, 2 both 2 in 1 products. It might be the way of the future, but I love it. I've never loved my hair more. I've no. It's never felt as good. And that's what I'm shouting out today.

[Sam Taggart]

I think it's really powerful and about time we stopped the stigma around two in one.

[Ally Makofsky]

They're not all the same.

[Sam Taggart]

They're not all the same.

[Ally Makofsky]

And I'm not using it to wipe my butt in the shower. It's for my head. It works on my head.

[George Sever]

That is shocking to me because I really.

[Sam Taggart]

Do you think she's using it to wipe her butt?

[George Sever]

No, I'm, I'm just shocked because I've literally. I'm on record as saying you have beautiful hair. The fact that it is because of Trader Joe's 2 in 1 is really rocking my world, to be honest.

[Ally Makofsky]

You know, you. I would go try and get all these fancy products. Being like, this is going to change my life. It's a tiny bottle for $60. It runs out so fast. I'm. I'm using the entire bottle just in one shower because why not? It's $5.

[Sam Taggart]

Damn. I love this.

[Ally Makofsky]

I love it. I want everyone to try it. I want everyone to try.

[George Sever]

This is very guys girl of you to be like, yeah, I just use Trader Joe's.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's good. It's good.

[Ally Makofsky]

This is girls girl. Because the girls judge. I don't need to convince a guy to get a two in one.

[George Sever]

That's right.

[Ally Makofsky]

It's the girls who I have. I. I beg them. I go, just try it.

[George Sever]

Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[Ally Makofsky]

No one does. No one tries it. And it kills me. I'm. I'm devastated.

[Sam Taggart]

Somebody's gonna try it.

[Ally Makofsky]

I hope so. Just, it's $5. If you hate it, throw it away.

[George Sever]

God. Trader Joe's. You know, it still hits after all these years. Shout out to the tamales.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, I Don't know what to do in there.

[George Sever]

No, that's fair.

[Sam Taggart]

I've, like, been in a stranger's one time in my whole. My whole life.

[George Sever]

Really?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Ally Makofsky]

No, you. Once you. You got to get used to it. You got to get.

[George Sever]

You also have to know what it does well and what it doesn't do well. Don't buy produce.

[Ally Makofsky]

Don't buy produce. But they're frozen, so they get the soup dumplings. Oh, my God, the soup dumplings.

[George Sever]

Frozen stuff. Anything sort of in the realm of like protein bars and powder. Like.

[Ally Makofsky]

And they always have a fun bread. I don't know how they make them. I don't know what they're doing.

[George Sever]

But they're making them there backstage. They're making the bread fresh every morning.

[Ally Makofsky]

Everything Bagel Chabot.

[George Sever]

Like a. Oh, the Everything bagel Trader Joe's. It's like they are snorting lines of Everything Bagel seasoning back there. Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, Ali, this has been a real delight. Thanks so much for doing the podcast.

[Ally Makofsky]

Thanks for having me.

[George Sever]

And please tell people we're trying to actually let people promote themselves. Please tell people what you are up to, where they can find you, where they can see you, et cetera.

[Ally Makofsky]

You can go to allymikofsky.com I have some tour dates coming up. You could see me do a comedy on the road, maybe in a city. City near you. You can go to my YouTube to check out Ali's interview show. You can get in on the ground floor of this. You can get it on the ground floor. I only have two episodes out at this moment. I'm starting to record more episodes. One of my guests is St. Vincent.

[George Sever]

That's why I saw that one.

[Ally Makofsky]

That's pretty good. And then my other guest, just to balance, Very straight, Dylan Francis. So there's one episode for everyone. At least right now. More to come. Yeah, that's cool.

[George Sever]

Great. And you gotta introduce us to St. Vincent.

[Ally Makofsky]

Oh, my God. Yeah, I would love to.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, bye.

[Ally Makofsky]

Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

Podcast ends now.

[George Sever]

Want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month. Discord Access and more by heading to patreon.com Stradiolab and for all our visual.

[Sam Taggart]

Learners, Free full length video episodes are available on our YouTube.

[George Sever]

Now get back to work.

[Sam Taggart]

Stradiolab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money players network and iHeart podcasts.

[George Sever]

Created and hosted by George Sever and.

[Sam Taggart]

Sam Taggart, executive produced by Will Ferrell, Han Sonny and Olivia Aguilar, co produced by Bay Wang, edited and engineered by.

[George Sever]

Adam Avalos artwork by Michael Fales and Matt Grubb.

[Sam Taggart]

Theme music by Ben Kling.

[Adam]

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[Hannah Jewell]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest. For Albertsons and Safeway, Spring is in full swing, which means it's time for spring cleaning. Don't worry, we've got everything you need to stock up on spring cleaning essentials because a clean home is a happy home. Shop in store or online for spring cleaning favorites like Method All Purpose Cleaner, Swiffer Heavy Duty Mopping Cloths, Lysol Bathroom Cleaner, Scotch Brite, SpongeBob Sponges and Clorox Disinfecting Wipes and Save. Offer ends April 22. Promotions may vary. Restrictions apply. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[H]

There's an efficient way to get caught up on a lot of news. It's called the seven from the Washington Post. It's a newsletter and podcast. Whether you're reading or hit play, you get seven stories you need to know, and you can consume it all in just a few few minutes. The 7 is out every weekday morning by 7:00am Eastern. I'm Hannah Jewell, I'm one of the writers and I host the show Find the seven Podcast. Wherever you're listening, the newsletter link is waiting for you in the show.

[Adam]

Notes for some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with [e-mail].