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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Thank you so much for joining us today on Strask. All right, Greg, this first question comes from Krista. Okay, First Corinthians 3, 15 talks about someone's works being burned up in judgment. Excuse me, but he himself being saved. Does this mean that a person can be saved but have nothing to show for it, no fruit bearing in the way they live? How does this fit with passages like James 2, faith without works is dead, and John 15.
- [00:42]
B
Oh, okay. James is talking about evidence for salvation, justification, and actually uses the word in a different way than Paul uses it. But notice that I'm just trying to think how I want to position this, because this is an important question. James discussion is a question about can a person. I don't know how I want to put this. He's comparing two different people. Okay. He's comparing a person who says they have faith, but there is no evidence of it. But there are no works. There are no subsequent visual consequences in their behaviors in virtue of their claim to have faith. And he says, can that faith save you? In other words, can the kind of faith that is mere profession, but is not inner transformation that manifests itself on the outside? And he says no when he uses the word justification. But he's using it different than Paul. Paul is using it in Romans 4 as the term that describes imputation. We are justified by faith and not by our works. We are made right before God imputed righteousness not because of things that we do, but by our faith. What James means by justification is actually what we normally mean by the word when we talk about it. I saw you acted that way. Justify yourself, in other words, give reasons why this behavior was appropriate or something like that. Justification in that sense is proving. And so what James is saying, prove your faith by your behaviors. You're not earning your salvation by your works. You're not justified in Paul's sense. And we know this because of the way the verses that are referred to both refer to Abraham. Paul is talking about justification in the forensic sense that justified or established as righteous before God by citing Genesis 15. Okay, well, it's Genesis 20 that James makes reference to offering up Isaac. And that can't be Paul's salvation, rather Abraham's salvation. He doesn't get saved twice. He doesn't get saved in Genesis 12 and then he gets saved, or rather 15 and then he gets saved, what, 20 years later in Genesis 20. So James is speaking of a different dynamic, the dynamic of the outward expression. And that's because there are a lot of people who self identify as Christians, but it turns out they've never trusted in Christ for anything. There's no transformation because there's no rebirth, because there's no genuine faith. Show me your faith without your works, James says, and I will show you my faith by my works. Okay, so remind me of the beginning of this question, because that's the next 1 Corinthians 13, 3, rather, 1 Corinthians
- [03:59]
A
3:15 talks about someone's works being burned up in your house.
- [04:02]
B
Oh, yeah, that's right. Now, what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 3 is an entirely different set of circumstances. He is talking about somebody that is saved, but he's talking about how you build on the foundation of your salvations. The word he uses, in fact, foundation. And he says you could build with wood hay stubble, or you could build with precious things like gold and silver, etc. Okay, the wood hay stubble is vulnerable to fire. So if you are building a bunch of junk, which in other words, you're spending your life in worthless endeavors and you're not bearing fruit in a meaningful way, then those worthless endeavors, the wood hay stubble, will be tested by fire and they're going to burn, they're going to go. But those things that are not will endure. And so somebody who has worked more at developing virtue and godliness in his life or her life is going to have more things that endure. That's why Paul says in 1 Timothy that physical exercise has little profit, but godliness is a means of great gain, for it holds a promise not only for this life, but also for the life to come. And that passage in 1 Corinthians is talking about that what some people call the bema seat judgment, the judgment for rewards. But you're only going to get rewards for the good stuff if you built it. If you haven't built it and you just built junk on that foundation of genuine faith in Christ, well, then that's all going to get burned up. So the question there is, does that mean, like, some people are going to enter into heaven with very little that endures that particular judgment? The answer is yes. My dad became a Christian about a year and a half before he died, and he was 72 when he died. And I have reflected on that. He missed a whole lifetime of walking with Christ, putting to death the deeds of the flesh, growing in grace, developing virtue, exercising spiritual gifts, all of that. He died very soon after he became a Christian. Some people die right after they became a Christian. Do you remember Tim talking about having a private audience? Amazingly with his grandfather on his grandfather's deathbed, and he shared the Gospel again for the umpteenth time. And his grandfather responded and received Christ. His grandfather, like my dad, basically entered the, way I put it, entered the kingdom naked and smelling of smoke. You know, they're not bringing anything with them but themselves, not any developed godliness. And so this is why a person who says, well, I'm going to wait until the end of my life to receive Christ and get their fire insurance, they think because then they can live however they want, they're missing out of the point. The point is that becoming a Christian early in life allows you, for one, to avoid a whole lot of trouble that folks that are non Christians and living flagrantly don't avoid. And not only that, you have all that time to get to know God better, develop that relationship, and to do things that are worthwhile, like James talks about and other passages do as well. So there is not a contradiction here between faith and works, because one is talking about salvation, James is, and the nature of genuine faith, and the other is talking about what you build after you come home, so to speak, to the Father. And then you begin growing up spiritually. Somebody who becomes a Christian and dies right afterwards or soon after, like Tim's grandfather, my dad, they don't have time to develop all that. Their salvation is not dependent on that. But there's more than. Than just fire insurance, so to speak. And the Corinthians passage is referring to that. And this is why. And also the one Timothy passage, to pursue godliness, then and virtue in this life is to give us something we enjoy here in this life, but also provides a benefit for us in the next.
- [08:42]
A
Yeah, I think Paul is just warning them to build correctly on there. He's not saying there are some people who will have no work in their life, because even people who become a Christian, they're gonna have fruit, even if it's just for minutes, because they've been changed. I mean, there'll be some sort of fruit. I will point out with James that the examples he gives of the works are all examples of faith being lived out, not good works. And I think this is important to remember. What he's talking about is that when you trust in Christ, you will behave in ways that reveals that trust in Christ, because he gives Abraham as an example, he gives Rahab as an example of people whose faith actually showed in works. He's not saying if you have faith, then you will do all these good deeds. That's not the point. I Don't think that's the point he's making.
- [09:37]
B
Not in James. Right.
- [09:38]
A
I think people get confused because he gives another illustration of how our words have to match our actions by talking about someone who says, go in peace, be warm and filled. But then you don't act according to those words. Then you don't really want that to happen. He does it one other way in the book, too. But when he's talking about faith, the examples he gives are examples of faith. So if you say you're a Christian, but you're not trusting in God in any way, then you do not have real faith. So I think that's the first thing to remember. Now, I will also say that the biggest thing that happens when you are saved is that your orientation towards God and your orientation towards sin both change. Your distaste for sin and your taste for God both increase, even though you're going to have to fight sin. So I would say even the people that you're talking about who become Christians, at the end, those two things change. And those are evidence of your faith in God, and those are the ways that your faith will be apparent immediately, even if you haven't built anything on that faith in terms of doing good works for the kingdom, or building the kingdom and training others, and whatever it is you're doing. Now, John 15 is about people abiding in Christ. And if you don't abide in Christ, then he will cut you off. Jesus is not saying that if you don't do enough good works, he's gonna cut you off as a branch. He's saying, those who abide in me will do good works. And if you're not abiding in Me, then you'll be cut off.
- [11:24]
B
It's an indicative. It shows this is what will take place, an indication, so to speak.
- [11:30]
A
And you see, Paul used this illustration for the Jews who did not trust in Christ, and they are cut off as branches. Whereas he says of those who trust in Christ, they do have the Holy Spirit. And this is in Romans 8, where he's very clear that if you are in Christ, you have the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit will enable you to put your sin to death over time, even though we haven't made it there yet. And he's very clear to say we are not sinless yet, but the Holy Spirit. We do have the Holy Spirit if we have Christ. So he's not saying that there's a person who can be in Christ, and yet they never, ever have any fruit, but neither is anyone here. Saying that if you have sinned, then you're not saved.
- [12:22]
B
No. In fact, when you read Galatians chapter five, there's a battle that's going on towards the end that describes it just before. It talks about the fruits of the Spirit, it talks about the, the deeds of the flesh and the battle that we have with that. And there's kind of a. I know you mentioned that when we are regenerate, our attitude towards God changes and our attitude towards sin changes. It does change. Instead of having a love relationship with sin, we have a. Here's the way I would put it, a love hate relationship. In other words, the appeal to sin is still there. It's not all gone, but we also hate the sin. And so what it says in Galatians there, it talks about the Spirit wars against the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit, so that you cannot do the things that you like. And so that sets up. I've always thought this was like a double entendre. When the flesh is fighting and prevailing these fleshly desires, well, then you don't do the spiritual things that are appropriate. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self control. There it comes. Next you end up doing, you end up doing the things that the flesh desires. But when the Spirit is being victorious in this struggle that you're having there in Galatians 5 described there, then the Spirit is overcoming the deeds of the flesh. And of course that's the point. That's the spiritual growth. I only say that because it isn't, as you mentioned, when you get regenerate, it isn't like you don't struggle anymore with these kinds of things. And you don't have temptations, you don't have desires to do things. If you didn't have a desire for it, you wouldn't do it, probably. And the desire has an appeal to it. It's an expression of an appeal. And that's what we fight against. And that's what that push, pull kind of combat is Described in Galatians 5.
- [14:18]
A
And this is the hope that Paul gives in Romans 8, because Romans 6:8 is all about, why not sin? If we're saved by grace, why not sin? And then he goes through this whole thing and what he explains is that the law never had the power to enable us to kill our sin. But now that we're in Christ, we have the Holy Spirit, who does give us that power. But even in the midst of that, he still places our hope on the fact that we are adopted by God, not on doing good things. Because what he says is if you are putting your sins to death, then you are saved. But then he explains why. He says, because if you're doing that, that means you have the spirit and you're adopted by God. He does not say, because you're making progress and now you've proved that you're good enough. That's not what he's saying at all. And I would imagine that would have been kind of a shock to people as he gives his reason as being. Because it means that you are a child of God and you have not received a spirit of slavery, again leading to fear you've received a spirit of adoption. So that's where our hope is. It's just now we know we have the Spirit's power to help us. But again, at the end of the chapter, he does. Or like midway through the chapter, he does say, we will not have our bodies will not be completely redeemed until the Resurrection. So don't. He says, we are saved in hope. So nobody has made it there yet. I want to follow this up with a question from the opposite direction, and this one comes from Jess. If good works demonstrate follow salvation, does that mean I'm not saved if I feel I truly believe in Christ, but I still fail so much with selfishness, not helping others much, not giving much, etc. After many years as a Christian, I feel like a failure and my faith must not be real.
- [16:15]
B
Well, all that we've said so far I think does speak to that issue. By the way, I remember a couplet that does speak to this First Corinthians passage where it talks about tested by fire. The couplet is only one life will soon be passed, only what's done for Christ will last. I think it captures that sense of what we are talking about there. But what we both acknowledge is that the Christian life is a struggle. It's always a struggle and with varying degrees of what we would perceive as success. And I think that it's interesting when you look at Paul, there are two different places where he talks about this one in Timothy somewhere about being the greatest of sinners. But there's another place where he talks about being the least of the apostles. And so Paul, here he is writing holy Scripture, yet he is deeply aware of his own fallenness and his need for Christ in an ongoing way. And I think this is characteristic of the Christian life. It's interesting how in 1 John 2 we have that 1 John 19 passage that lots of people use for confession of sin. I don't think that's what it's about at all. I think that's more, in a certain sense, evangelistic. If we say we have no sin, then the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sin, that is, in my view on this, that we have sin, then we are forgiven. Okay, so what's interesting is he doesn't offer confession as an antidote for sin there. He offers something else to the antidote in the next verse, which is chapter two, verse one. And it says, little children, I write these things to you so that you do not sin. But if you do, we have an advocate with the Father in Christ Jesus, the righteous, and he is the propitiation for our sins. So the point there of chapter two is saying it's trading on the presumption that sin is going to be a reality of our life and we have safety. It's not an excuse to give in to sin. It is an acknowledgment of the safety we have in Christ in spirit. Even though we sin, we will continue to sin. There's a book that I read a number of years ago that addresses this. It's actually, I think it's a summary of John Owen's writing, which is hard to read. The Death of Death and the Death of Christ is one of his books. But this is called the Enemy Within. Do you know this book? It's a smaller book written by a guy with like a Swedish last name. I can't.
- [19:07]
A
Costenberger. Is it Costa Burger?
- [19:09]
B
I don't think it's Costa Rica. I don't think it's that, because I can say that name. This one I can't really say. I can't pronounce very well. But it's called the Enemy Within. And he summarizes John Owen's analysis of the fallenness of man. John Owen, the Puritan. And basically, if I could sum up, one major point of the whole book is that we will always struggle with sin all the way to the day we die, because it's not until then that we are bereft of the flesh. The flesh is always going to be crouching at our door and trying to get us to sin. And so he offers some ways to deal with that, but just the idea that there's this battle that's always going on. So I offer that as an encouragement. We are always going to have this foe. Just like in what, Genesis 4. The sin crouches at your door, Cain, you know, you must master it. Now we have resources to master it. And that is in the cross of Christ and etc. But boy, if people are concerned about that, let me back up. It's always good to be concerned that you're not good enough. I guess maybe I should be less selfish and less this and that. I say, yeah, probably all of us. But if that's interfering severely, unless you have a severe case of sin that you have to deal with and spirit's convicting you, that's one thing. But I think a lot of times we just think that because we're not as good as we should be. Yes, and I remember this psalm, Psalm whatever, I want to say, like 135 or so. But the psalmist says, lord, if you should mark iniquity, in other words, if you are keeping track of our sins, and that's the standard by which we are being measured. The psalmist says, oh Lord, who could stand? Oh Lord, who could stand? But he says, there is forgiveness with you, that you might be praised. And so I think of that a lot when I have these same thoughts about myself. Man, I'm a rat. And then I think of that. So is everybody else.
- [21:28]
A
So here's a way to think about this, Jess, because if, as we were just talking about, the evidence of our faith are our actions of faith in God, then this is a particularly good time for you to express your faith in Christ's work for you on the cross. So why doesn't God immediately resolve every sin we have? When we ask, why does he resolve some and not others? I don't know. But if you are not having victory in certain things and you feel like you're faced with the evil in your own heart, these are the times when we find out if we're really trusting in what we're doing good or what Jesus did for us. So this is a good time to develop that trust that rest in what Christ has done for you. That's something to focus on right now and to thank him for it and to rejoice in that. Despite the sin that you're fighting and not having victory over, it's a good time to develop humility because you again, you're having trouble, you're aware of your own sin. Humility is very important to the Christian life. It's a time to develop compassion where you care about others, you can see others who are suffering because of their sin, and you can treat them with compassion. Maybe more than someone who has more victory over their sin, you can develop your love for Christ because again, you're depending on him and you're feeling more thankful. Think about the woman who is washing Jesus feet with her tears. And Jesus says she who is forgiven much loves much. This is an opportunity for you to love much because you are forgiven much. It's also an opportunity for you to press into fellowship with other believers because they can help you through this and they can keep you accountable and you can work on your your fellowship with other believers. So these are all ways that you can show your faith, the fruit of your faith. It shows that you're trusting Christ despite your sin. And if you're feeling discouraged, these are all ways, I think you can look at it, to develop your love for Christ and your trust in him. And this is what we're all trying to do. And when you're through this, this will give you ways that you can help others in ways that others can't who aren't struggling with sin the way you might be. But again, maybe you just have a better awareness that other people don't have a more sensitive because we're all struggling with sin. So hopefully that helps you out. Jess and Krista, thank you both for these really important questions. I know people have questions about these things all the time about salvation. So hopefully that will help many of you out there. And we'd love to hear from you about your question. You can do that on str. Org or go to X and use the hashtag strask. This is Amy hall and Greg Kochl for Stand to Reason.