Does Genesis 1 Indicate That We Are Basically Good?

Summary

Podcast Summary: #STRask – Does Genesis 1 Indicate That We Are Basically Good?

Host: Stand to Reason
Episode Date: August 10, 2026
Featuring: Greg Koukl (A), Amy Hall (B)

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Overview

In this episode of #STRask, Greg Koukl and Amy Hall address two related listener questions:

1. Does Genesis 1’s assertion that humans are made in God's image and called “very good” mean we are basically good at our core?
2. If the human heart is “desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9), how can God search it and why does Paul in Romans 10:9 say to believe in your “heart”?

Through scriptural analysis and theological reflection, Greg and Amy explore the biblical doctrine of humanity’s nature, the theological implications of the image of God, original sin, the ongoing relevance of “total depravity,” and the interplay between God’s holiness, human sinfulness, and the hope of the gospel.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Are Humans “Basically Good”? (00:17–11:38)

• Greg Koukl’s Three Frameworks (00:40):

  • 1st Look: Image of God
    • Humans are made in God's image, intrinsically valuable, and capable of relationship with God.
    • "They have a quality of goodness that cannot be taken away from them because it’s built into the warp and the woof of our natures." [Greg, 00:46]
    • The image is ontological—about being, not just behavior.
  • 2nd Look: The Fall & “Effaced” Goodness
    • After the Fall (Genesis 3), the image isn’t erased but “effaced” (marred).
    • “It did not erase the image of God. It effaced—didn’t erase it, it effaced it. In other words, it’s marred. The true glory, in a certain sense, is not showing through.” [Greg, 01:53]
    • Sin now influences all aspects of our being (total depravity): “Not that we’re as bad as we could be, but that every area of our lives...is influenced by the Fall.” [Greg, 02:29]
  • 3rd Look: Glorification — Future Restoration
    • Through Christ, believers move towards sanctification and ultimate glorification—a future state where sin is no longer possible.
    • C.S. Lewis’s “weight of glory”: If we saw people as they will be, “we would be tempted to bow down and worship them.” [Greg, referencing Lewis, 01:27]
    • “We will be transformed...to be like Christ, who is non posse peccare—not possible to sin...” [Greg, 04:47]

• Common Misunderstandings about “Basic Goodness” (05:22):

  • Greg distinguishes between “made from good stuff” (ontological value) and what people usually mean by “basically good”—that people are “good hearted,” “nice,” and generally do the right thing.
  • “Well, that’s not true. You know, the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked.” [Greg, 06:14]
  • Our innate value remains, but our moral nature is fallen.

• Amy Hall: On Whether We Over-Emphasize Sin (08:05):

  • “I honestly don’t think the problem with the Church today is that they emphasize sin too much.” [Amy, 08:06]
  • The world rejects discussion of sin because without the gospel, it only increases guilt.
  • Emphasizing both God’s holiness and our sin is foundational to understanding the gospel.
  • “You will not understand what Jesus has done for you unless you understand where you are without Him.” [Amy, 09:08]

• On Legalism & True Humility (11:38):

  • “An understanding of our own sin actually kills legalism...The more you understand how useless it is for you to try to earn your own salvation, the less you are going to depend on earning your own salvation.” [Amy, 11:39]

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2. How Can a “Desperately Wicked” Heart Respond to God? (12:31–20:03)

• Question Summary:

  • If the heart is “desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9), why does God search it (Jeremiah 17:10) and require belief “in your heart” (Romans 10:9)? Can a wicked heart genuinely believe?

• Greg Koukl’s Response:

  • Everyone acknowledges that God must intervene for people to have genuine faith (“God has to act in some measure to mitigate the impact of the native sin and rebellion that we have…” [Greg, 13:01]).
  • Whether you are Arminian or Calvinist, “everybody agrees that God has to act.”
  • “So if the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked, who could know it? That is a statement…identifying the terrible circumstances that human beings are in.” [Greg, 13:31]

• Filthy Rags Analogy (14:13):

  • Even our “good works” are like “filthy rags” in the original Hebrew—a vivid expression that nothing we do on our own can bridge the gap.

• Why God Searches the Heart (15:42):

  • “That’s all bad news, right? That’s all bad news. The heart is wicked. And guess what? God says, I know it. And now I’m looking at it. And you’re going to...this is the means or the ground for judgment. Your wickedness.” [Greg, 15:42]
  • God’s knowledge of our hearts is the basis for just judgment.
  • “We can’t hide anything from Him.” [Amy, 16:09]

• Amy’s Encapsulation of the Gospel Hope (17:18):

  • After salvation, God’s searching is not as Judge, but as Father.
  • Romans 8: the Spirit intercedes “for us with groanings too deep for words” as we struggle against sin.
  • “As He’s searching our hearts, He is seeing all of our sin, but the Holy Spirit is praying for us. He’s interceding for us so that we can kill our sin. So this is the hope now—instead of being condemnation, now it’s the hope that the Holy Spirit is searching our hearts, the Father is searching our hearts, the Holy Spirit is interceding for us, and we are putting our sin to death because God is working all things together to enable us to kill our sin so that we will become like Christ.” [Amy, 19:29]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Human Value and the Fall:

  • “We are broken. And it did not erase the image of God. It effaced—didn’t erase it. It effaced it.” [Greg, 01:44]
  • “Jesus doesn’t die for junk. He dies for those made in the image of God and are valuable inherently.” [Greg, 07:57]

• On Misunderstanding of ‘Goodness’:

  • “People basically mean...human beings are basically good hearted...we’re all kind of nice people, aren’t we? You know, ‘I’m a good person.’ Well, that’s not true.” [Greg, 06:09]

• On Sin and the Good News:

  • “The more we understand that...it’s for us to understand the depth of the grace that he’s shown to us. This is where our love for Christ begins.” [Amy, 09:26]

• On God Searching the Heart:

  • “God says, ‘I know it. And now I’m looking at it. And you’re going to...this is the ground for judgment.’” [Greg, 15:42]

• On the Role of the Holy Spirit:

  • “As we are groaning and suffering in our sin and trying to put our sin to death, [the Spirit] is interceding for us...God causes all things to work together for good...to make us like Christ.” [Amy, 18:19–19:29]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:17 – Introduction of Krista’s question (Genesis 1: Are we basically good?)
• 00:40 – Greg’s “three looks” at humanity: image, fall, and glorification
• 06:09 – Greg explicates misunderstanding of human “basic goodness”
• 08:05 – Amy counters idea that the Church talks too much about sin; centrality of sin and grace
• 11:38 – How understanding sin kills legalism (Amy)
• 12:31 – James’s follow-up: If the heart is wicked, how can we believe?
• 13:01 – God must act for salvation; the role of grace
• 15:42 – Greg addresses why God searches our hearts; basis for judgment
• 16:42 – Emphasis on the gospel in the face of human depravity (Amy)
• 17:18 – Amy: How God’s searching is transformed for believers—“Hope, not condemnation”
• 19:27 – The Holy Spirit’s intercession and our transformation into Christ’s likeness

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Conclusion

Greg and Amy argue that Genesis 1 affirms our intrinsic, God-given value, but that the Fall has corrupted—not erased—our moral nature. In common parlance, humans are not “basically good,” but “basically fallen.” The doctrine of total depravity means sin affects all areas of life, but does not undo our value or hope. Awareness of sin serves to magnify our gratitude for grace and eliminate self-righteousness, not to beat us down. God’s act of searching our hearts is both a cause for accountability and, for the believer, a source of hope as the Spirit intercedes and sanctifies.

Listeners are encouraged to see the full picture: God’s holiness, our sinfulness, and the radical solution of the gospel—rooted in our unique value as God’s image-bearers.

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Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Welcome. Thanks for joining us. Hello, Greg.

[A]

Amy. Hi there.

[B]

All right, let's get started with a question from Krista. I've always believed that people are inherently sinful because we're born with a sin nature. But the Bible doesn't start at Genesis 3. It starts at Genesis 1, where God made humans in his image and called us very good. Does this mean that humans are basically good and we've emphasized sin too much?

[A]

You know, I had a fellow, I interviewed, a theologian, and he said whenever you look at human beings, you have to take three looks. The first look is what Christa, Is that it? Christa mentioned that human beings are. Are made in the image of God. And so they're made out of good stuff. They have a quality of goodness that cannot be taken away from them because it's built into the warp and the woof of our natures. We are in the image of God. That's an ontological kind of metaphysical type statement. It isn't like we act in a certain way that that reflects God. We are in the image of God, which makes it possible for us to be in a friendship with God. I talk about that in the story of reality. And that's what grounds all of our moral obligations to each other. There's an objective element that undergirds the moral imperatives that we have to each other as parents. We tell our kids, don't treat each other like animals because we're not merely animals. So that's a good thing. And that doesn't change. And sometimes I do see language in books that are talking about the Fall. And it seems to suggest that the image of God was erased in the Fall and that we regain the image of God through sanctification. I think that's just false. If it was erased, then an unborn child would not be innately valuable because the image of God was gone in them. And they might have the capacity for that if they performed certain ways. I mean, this ain't right. So the first look is at the image of God and man, making us innately valuable. But we're not then. We're now. Genesis 3. So we are broken. And it did not erase the image of God. It effaced. Didn't erase it. It effaced it. In other words, it's marred. The true glory, in a certain sense is not showing through. It's interesting. CS Lewis talks at the end of his wonderful and in some ways difficult to read essay called the Weight of Glory. He says at the end that if we. If we were really. If we saw people the way they really are, we would be tempted to bow down and worship them. And he's just talking about that glory that we have, not just in the image of God, but a glory that is added to it. I'll get to that in a moment. So on the one hand we look innately good stuff that we're made of, and secondly, the Fall effaces that. And therefore now in a position, and this is what reform folk call a total depravity. But I don't know why anybody who's a Christian who would reject such a thing if it's properly understood. And that means that not that we're as bad as we could be, but that every area of our lives, our emotions, our desires, our wills, everything is influenced by the Fall. So because of that factor, we have a limited capacity to do good. We have a capacity to do good. Fallen people do good things, but it didn't accrue merit to them because they're supposed to do good things. They're supposed to obey. That just kind of brings you even so now we're in debt because we don't obey in everything. So the image of God provides a kind of potential for a level of goodness. But the problem is we're lost and our natures are broken. We are unplugged, as it were, and we need to be plugged back in to God to be able to move forward, to be able to better express not just the image of God innate in us, but to be sanctified to a point of glorification. And this is what Lewis is talking about at the end, the glorification stage and how the weight of glory, momentary light affliction, is producing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison. This is the verse in 2 Corinthians 4 that he is trading on. So I think Christa is correct in reflecting on both these passages and the way to hold them in tension. I think, and in my view there's no tension at all. We're made of good stuff that has been marred. And so therefore it would be fair, at least in the language that we use today, to say that human beings are not innately good unless we're careful to refer to the nature of made in the image of God. But that's not what people mean. People basically mean. I think they generally mean human beings are basically good hearted and want to do the right thing and they're looking out for other people. And we're all kind of nice people, aren't we? You know, I'M a good person. Well, that's not true. You know, the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. I think it's Jeremiah. And who can know it? We are always deceiving ourselves, which is why we need an external source of internal transformation, and that's the new birth. And that external source is the Holy Spirit. And now we're on a track for the fullness of the image of God to be manifest even beyond, I think, what Adam had because he was morally innocent, but he was not morally. Well, he was impeccable without sin, but he was not in a condition where he could never sin. And in my view, at least, and I think yours too, we will be transformed through the Resurrection to be like Christ, who is non parepicasso not possible to sin. And so, no non posse picare. There we go. I mean, who caught my bad Latin there? Only the homeschool kids, right? So non posse picare. We can't. It's not possible for us to sin in the future, and then we will be brought full range. So in common parlance, I don't agree with the way people talk about we're basically good. I think we're basically fallen, and it influences every way of our life, and it makes us culpable before God because of the sins we commit. And so we're lost. But we're redeemable because we're made out of good stuff. Because Jesus doesn't die for junk. He dies for those made in the image of God and are valuable inherently.

[B]

I have to say, when I look at this question, have we emphasized sin too much? I honestly don't think the problem with the Church today is that they emphasize sin too much. I really don't see that. I think the world does not like when we talk about sin, but there's a reason for that. The reason why they don't like us talking about sin is because they have no way to get rid of their guilt. And so if you're reminded of that without the gospel, then you have a real problem, and nobody wants to hear about their sin. But the truth is, there are two things we really need to understand as Christians. One of them is God's holiness and righteousness, and the other is our own sin. And there are a lot of reasons for this, but we can't truly see either. I mean, think about, think about whenever anyone comes face to face with God or even an angel right in the Bible, and they fall down and they just suddenly all of their sin is revealed to themselves.

[A]

They see, famously Isaiah to Isaiah 6,

[B]

you know, so when we talk about our sin, we're not trying to beat people down, we're trying to give them an accurate picture. But the reason for that is because we want them to understand the gospel. You will not understand what Jesus has done for you unless you understand where you are without Him. And the more we understand that, again, not for beating ourselves up, it's for us to understand the depth of the grace that he's shown to us. This is where our love for Christ begins. It's understanding what he has done and what he has endured for us and what we deserved and what we have been freed from. These are all things that help us to see God better and to love him more. So the more we understand that, the better we will love Him. At the same time, the more you just talk about sin without the gospel, the worse off you'll be because then you have no way to get rid of your guilt or your sin.

[A]

Reminds me, A.W. tozer, I think, was the one who said the most important thing about what you could know about any person is what they think about God or what they believe about God. Their view of God, I would add, though, as a step by step thing, that was actually the first thing you pointed out, Holiness. But a proper understanding of salvation is also grounded in a proper understanding of biblical anthropology. Man. And if you don't get man's sin and fallenness right, you are not going to get the gospel right. It just comes out twisted and distorted and frankly it depletes, diminishes the gospel. If you have a diminished understanding of how bad we are. Remember Psalm 130. I've talked about this a lot. Oh Lord, Lord, if you should mark iniquity, if you are keeping track of this, and that's the way we're. Oh Lord, who could stand? And so God's holiness, our sinfulness, is the grounds for which we. We then move on to the mercy of God, the rescue that God provides, and then enter into the process of sanctification and ultimately glorification that he promises, for example, in Romans 8.

[B]

And think about the fact that an understanding of our own sin actually kills legalism. Because as long as you feel like I'm doing pretty well, you start to think, oh, this is because of me, I'm doing great. The more you understand how useless it is for you to try to earn your own salvation, the less you are going to depend on earning your own salvation. So it kills legalism. It brings about humility and love for God and His grace. And it helps us to trust him. And it takes that whole burden of earning our whole salvation off of our own backs. So I think there are a lot of great reasons. Again, it just has to be all always in the context of the Gospel. Let's go to a question from James. If God says the heart is desperately wicked, who can know it in Jeremiah 17:9?

[A]

That's what I was just saying.

[B]

Why does God search the heart in Jeremiah 17:10? Also, if the heart is desperately wicked, above all things, who can know it? Why does the Bible say in Romans 10:9, to believe in your heart that God had raised Jesus Christ from the dead and you shall be saved? If the heart is desperately wicked, how can the heart do these things?

[A]

Well, let me jump over the first one. I have to think about that for a moment. But I mean, the second doesn't seem to be a problem. It doesn't matter what a person's theological stripe is unless they're Pelagian. You don't want to be a Pelagian. That's a heretic. During the time of Augustine, we all acknowledge that God has to act in some measure to mitigate the impact of the native sin and rebellion that we have in order for us to trust. Now, Arminians would say God brings everybody halfway, so to speak, and then we kind of break the tie. Or Calvinists would say God brings some people all the way and leaves the rest in their depravity and judges them. But nevertheless, in order for salvation to be accomplished, everybody agrees that God has to act. So if the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked, who could know it? That is a statement from the perspective identifying the terrible circumstances that human beings are in. They don't realize how bad they are. All our righteous deeds are like filthy rags. And our iniquities, like the wind carries away, that's the rest of that passage. And the filthy rags is kind of a sanitized version because what's being referred to in the Hebrew, there are menstrual rags. And the picture is like our iniquities, like the wind carry us away. You think of like a pile of leaves and the wind blows it and it just. It's gone. So whatever little good works we think we have, they're gone because the wind of reality, kind of our iniquities just blow that away. Okay? So that's where God's Spirit comes in to help us to see and understand. So it takes us from this Jeremiah circumstance and then the Spirit working on our hearts allows us to see the reality and our need for rescue, whether we respond to that or not, it's a different matter. But the spirit is available to allow that to happen or to help us to see that. That's the second hurdle. What was the first one again? Could you reread that for me?

[B]

If God says the heart is desperately wicked, who can know it in Jeremiah 17:9? Why does God search the heart in Jeremiah 17:10? Do you want me to read this for you?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. The passage is important. Search the heart.

[B]

Okay. The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick. Who can understand it? I, the Lord, search the heart. I test the mind even to give to each man according to his ways, according to results of his deeds.

[A]

Oh, well, there's no disharmony in that at all. That's all bad news, right? That's all bad news. The heart is wicked. And guess what? God says, I know it. And now I'm looking at it. And you're going to. This is the means or the ground for judgment, Your wickedness. I think that's what he's getting at there. Now this.

[B]

We can't hide anything from him.

[A]

That's right. That's the bad news. Of course. And the good news shows up at different places. I mentioned Psalm 130, Lord, if you should mark iniquity, who could stand? And that's consistent with what you just read. But next verse, next line, there is forgiveness with you that you might be praised. Forgiveness is necessary because of the way Jeremiah and God, therefore, are describing the wickedness of man and the consequence that follows, because God on that basis, will judge us by our works and we will be found wanting. That makes sense.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think he's just saying. And in fact, there are other places, too, where the Bible talks about how God. We can't hide anything from him. He can see through our hearts. He can search that. We can't hide our true motives or our sin or anything from God. So I just want to throw some gospel in there on top of this.

[A]

What the hey? Sure.

[B]

Because as it happens, Paul also talks about God searching our hearts in Romans 8. But he. You have to remember, once we are saved, there's a whole different thing going on. God is no longer in relationship to us as a judge, but as a father.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

So in Romans 8, Paul goes through this whole idea that now we are saved, we are adopted by God. We no longer have a spirit of fear because we are adopted and we're not doing anything by law anymore. And then he talks about how we are still struggling in our sin. And then he turns this searching of God into our sin, from something scary into something hopeful. Because after he talks about the Holy Spirit helping us to how in the end we will be completely recreated, but we're not there yet, so we still have sin. And so after he talks about how we will be completely redeemed, then he says, in the same way, the Spirit also helps our weakness. And what I think he's talking about here is in the same way as he will completely regenerate us at the resurrection, he is even now helping us with our sin as we're groaning. He just talked about how all creation is groaning in their sin. So he says, for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And like he just said, groanings is our suffering in our sin. So as we are groaning and suffering in our sin and trying to put our sin to death, he's interceding for us. And it says, and he who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is because he intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called. Who are called according to his purpose to make us like Christ.

[A]

That's right. That's what follows there. Right?

[B]

So as he's searching our hearts, he is seeing all of our sin, but the Holy Spirit is praying for us. He's interceding for us so that we can kill our sin. So this is the hope now, instead of being condemnation, now it's the hope that the Holy Spirit is searching our hearts. The Father is searching our hearts. The Holy Spirit is interceding for us. And we are putting our sin to death because God is working all things together to enable us to kill our sin so that we will become like Christ.

[A]

Exactly. Excellent.

[B]

And that's it. That's all I have to say, Greg. Well, thank you so much, Christa and James. And if you have a question, you can send that to our website. Just go to str.org and then look for our StraskPodcast page and you will find a little link there. All you have to do is click on that link and send us one or two sentences with your question. And we would love to hear from you. Thank you so much for listening. This is Amy hall and Greg Kogel for Stand to Reason.