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- [00:13]
A
All right, Greg, let's get started with the questions. And actually, they follow along somewhat from our last episode that we did. We talked a lot about the gospel and how you can know you're going to heaven and that sort of thing. So if you missed that, go back and listen to that. But we're going to start with a question from Charity. How, quote, right, do I need to be to enter the kingdom? There are a lot of Christians who say they're right, that don't agree with each other.
- [00:41]
B
Well, this is a question regarding essential doctrines. What are the things that one must believe in order to qualify for salvation? And kind of interestingly, this was the motivating. One of the motivating elements of me writing the story of reality. Because for many years I was working on this teaching that was the core of that book. It's called Credo then, which means I believe. And I was trying to put together a characterization of those essential elements, the Sinequanons, the that without which we're not talking about Christianity, we're talking about something different. And so the way that I put that together is I realized you can't be saved by God unless you believe in God. And that's the way our story starts in the beginning. God. Okay. And in Hebrews 11, it says that without faith, it's impossible to please God, because first you must believe that he is. And that he's a rewarder of those who. What does it have? Believe in him or whatever.
- [02:00]
A
Seek Him.
- [02:01]
B
Seek Him. Yeah. Okay. So now we have from the text an essential element which makes sense because it's the beginning of the story. You got to believe in God. If you don't believe in God, you're not going anywhere. All right. All right. Then the next element of the story, and I'm talking in terms of the timeline, is. Is man. And we learn something about human beings in the first, second, and third chapters of the story, that human beings are made like God to be in friendship with Him. And this is unique in all the other creatures that God made. But they rebelled against God and broke his law, and that brought human beings under judgment. So you can only get saved by understanding that you are savable in virtue of being made in the image of God. And you need saving because you're guilty. If you don't think you're guilty, then there's no saving. I mean, in your way of thinking, what are you going to be saved from? So you have to understand your own guilt, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Okay, then. Now, in the story of reality, I make the point that God initiates a rescue plan. And he does that because we need to be rescued, and we know that. And we can't rescue ourselves. And that's why God has to rescue us. And he rescues us by becoming a man taking on human nature, I should say, in the person of Jesus. So now you have Jesus as an essential element of the program. And there are two things that are really critical to know about who Jesus was, and that is that he's a real man. But he wasn't just a man. He was God. Come down, Emmanuel. God with us. And Jesus makes this clear in John 8, among other places. But Jesus says, unless you believe that I am, and in your translation, you're going to have the word he in italics. That means it's not in the original. It's egoimi in the Greek. It just means I am. And that was the Greek way of rendering the ancient name of God, Yahweh. I am. That I am. Okay? So you have to believe that Jesus is God. Unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins. All right? You must. Jesus told the woman at the well, you have to worship God in spirit and in truth as he actually is in himself. Okay? And there are some foundational things there, and this is one of them. In Romans 8, Paul says, if you believe in your heart, let's see if you confess with your mouth. Jesus as Lord. Now, by the way, this word Lord doesn't mean like gentry. He's not just some nice rich guy, landed aristocracy, or just kind of a highfalutin guy. The word Lord is a rendering of the way people would refer to God, the Lord God in the Old Testament, and the most common way of referring to Jesus in the New Testament was as Lord is the Lord, Jesus Christ, also the Son of God. John says he writes his Gospel and gives the miracles in there to justify or verify that, that give reasons why people should believe. And what do they believe according to John, chapter 20, or maybe 21, that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God. That's a divine characterization. When you understand the phrase Son of God in the context of the writings, people misread it. Now, 2,000 years later, but that's not what John meant. The Son of God and in believing, have life in his name. Notice how believing that Jesus is the Son of God is an essential part of the salvation package. And when John, rather Paul, says in Romans 10, if you confess with your mouth, Jesus as Lord and you believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. You will be saved. So now you have the man, Jesus, who is also God come down, the Lord who raised from the dead all as essential beliefs for salvation. Okay, so you have God, you got issues about man. You have Jesus, you have issues. Now we're going to the cross. And the cross is where all of the bookkeeping kind of gets resolved. It's kind of a funny way of putting it, but that's what the reformers call the great exchange, where Jesus made a trade. He made a trade, his life or ours. He took punishment that we deserved so that we can get the righteousness that he earned. He gets our bad stuff, we get his good stuff. It's his bad stuff that saves us from punishment, and it's his good stuff that we get that gives us an entree into the wonderful things that Jesus has provided for us, an inheritance. Those are all part of the equation. So if you believe Jesus is a great guy or maybe even God come down, but that he didn't die for sins in some sense, I mean, there are different ways people understand that, but he didn't die for sins. Well, then you're not believing how you need to believe to benefit from what Jesus did to give you an entree, excuse me, with the Father in the end, enter into the joy of the Lord. You know what Jesus says. So I already mentioned the resurrection, and that's the final point. It's the resurrection of Jesus that secures the final resurrection, to reward or judgment. But by the time you get to the final resurrection, the issues are already resolved whether or not you have satisfied those requirements that I just mentioned. Now, the ultimate requirement obviously is faith in Jesus, and we've talked about that before, that rests upon a foundation of something else. All the other things I mentioned, the God, man elements, God existing, human beings being need of rescue, and then Jesus being the rescuer. So by putting our faith in Jesus, we are making some presumption. We're presuming that God exists to have sent Jesus. Jesus is God and he's rescuing me. And he did something that if I put my faith in him, then I will be rescued. So the hinge pin is the faith in Jesus, the salvation hinge pin. But that rests upon other things. It's not just hanging out there in the air that are necessary to believe. So those five points of the story of reality that I write about, God, man, Jesus, cross, resurrection, these are all essential elements to Christianity. If you miss any of those, you don't have Christianity anymore.
- [09:07]
A
And I could even narrow it down even more and just say, you need to know the right God and the right Gospel.
- [09:13]
B
Right. There you go.
- [09:14]
A
Because.
- [09:15]
B
Well, actually it doesn't narrow it down, it just summarizes it up. Because all of those elements are right.
- [09:20]
A
Well, that's what I mean. I'm just making it even more simple.
- [09:24]
B
Sure.
- [09:25]
A
Because Paul says if someone teaches you, if you believe in another Jesus, you're not saved. And if someone brings another gospel to you, you are accursed if you accept another gospel. And honestly, it comes down to are you trusting in Jesus to save you or are you doing something on your own to save you? And that kind of is what he gets into in Galatians. But I also wanna say there's a reason why this is so, and it goes to God's whole purpose for doing this. He says that his eternal purpose was to have Christ die on the cross for us. And he's doing this to the praise of the glory of his grace. He's doing this to reveal who he is to the people that he's going to shower his mercy on for eternity. He's revealing all these different aspects of Himself through this story of redemption. He's not going to save people who are trusting in other gods because then the glory goes to those other gods. That's not how it works. The reason why he's doing it this way is to bring Himself glory that we can all enjoy forever. So his glory and our good. But it all depends on our knowing Him. That is what is at the root of this. It's about knowing God fully and the way we know him is by being reconciled to him and in learning about what he said about himself. And that's why God does it in this way. Now I also wanna say, though, and we've talked about this before, there are different levels of understanding of each of these things that you mentioned. There's a very bare bones. I mean, think about the thief on the cross. He obviously knew that Jesus was able to save him. He probably knew the God that Jesus was preaching because he was in that same area and location and knew what was being said. And he might not have had really specific understanding of each of those things, but you can see the bare bones of what you mentioned. He probably didn't know at the time that Jesus was going to be resurrected, but we do now. So there are all sorts of levels at which you can desire to be in a relationship with God and trust Jesus to save you. So I don't want people to Think that they have to have some sort of seminary knowledge about these things. But over time you learn more and more. But that's a great way to sum up the basics there. But now I'm gonna throw a curveball at you and this one. The next two are very similar, but we're gonna start with one from Lane. I have mentored a young man who has cognitive challenges. We have had many conversations about what Christianity is and what it is to be a believer. He is high functioning, can hold a job, drive, carry on a basic conversation, but on his own, he's not able to explain salvific concepts like God's grace or why Jesus needed to die on the cross. He really wants to be baptized, but is unable to explain what baptism symbolizes. My inclination is to go through with the baptism and trust that God knows this young man's heart and mind. What are your thoughts?
- [12:33]
B
Well, this is interesting question, and it's never had anything along this line before. I guess I would. All I'm going to offer is my basic impulse here because there's not a lot of, you know, theology to offer at this particular point. I would, I, I. When people make a claim that they are Christian and they want to follow Jesus in some sense, some significant sense, I'm willing to take that charitably and at face value. And I'd rather affirm that, unless I have a very strong reason to think otherwise. Now, if this young man was involved in behaviors that were really questionable, and then, you know, I, I would wonder about that. And by the way, if he's not regenerate and he gets baptized, it doesn't hurt him, but it may have a salutary impact of drawing him more fruitfully into the body of Christ in communion with other Christians. I guess. I don't know. That would be my impulse. I would say, okay, you've done what you could. He wants to be baptized. Maybe he doesn't understand all the theology, but he must understand that baptism is a way of showing obedience to Christ and belonging a little bit more to the body of Christ. Or else I don't even know why he'd want to be baptized at all. He must have some answer to that question, why do you want to be baptized? And therefore I think I'd go along with that and encourage that and kind of treat that request charitably rather than be doubtful of it.
- [14:24]
A
Yeah, I think very simply, and I'm sure you've done this, Lane, but ask why do you want to be baptized? And see what he says and My inclination is what you're saying, Greg, that he sees that those who are following Christ get baptized and he wants to follow Christ and therefore he wants to be baptized. Even if he doesn't know what's going on or exactly what, or he can't state theological positions, he can see that obedience to Christ involves baptism and he wants to acknowledge Christ as his Savior and his Lord. And as much as he knows about him, I wouldn't have a problem with that. I don't think you. I think there, especially with people who are incapable of learning more theological, you know, details, if you want to follow Christ, then allow him to follow Christ. Don't stop him from following Christ. I think that would be my inclination. Now here is a similar one from Chad. I have a daughter who's 25 who is intellectually disabled from birth. She in many ways is still four years old. She has a general understanding of God and Jesus like you would see in a very young child. But she doesn't understand sacrificial atonement and the crucifixion and justification and sanctification. Any of these Christian content where a person understands that Jesus personally died for their sins. That kind of stuff would not be something she could intellectually grasp. So I believe, like young children, God makes room for her salvation. But as a parent, you worry. Do you really know?
- [16:06]
B
Well, the do you really know? Question is a question parents will carry with them regarding their children for much of their life, depending on the child. And it's not related at all to their personal developmental capabilities. That's always going to be a question. There are people who are four years old and I've heard the testimonies as they look back. I became a Christian, the real deal when I was 4 and have been walking with the Lord ever since. And sometimes when I was a teenager, had some rocky road or whatever, but nevertheless, they identify their regeneration as happening, as a real thing that happened when they had very, very modest understanding of the theological issues. What I would do is approach Chad. I would approach your daughter as a four year old. And therefore your information that you're communicating to her is going to be very basic. How do you talk to a 4 year old? You know, honey, we want you to be in heaven with us. But God doesn't let any bad people into heaven. Oh, that's bad news unless they're forgiven. And they can be forgiven through Jesus. If you trust Jesus, then you'll be forgiven and you can be with us in heaven forever because Jesus has provided a sacrifice for anyone. Who trusts in him to be rescued. I mean, that's a very simple way of putting it. And sometimes that's kind of the way you talk to 4 year olds. You give them a very, very simple rendering. And I think they are capable of making a decision, if you want to call it that, of trusting in Jesus, asking him into their hearts another way that we often will put it with children. And they can move forward that way. They don't need all of that other stuff in order to trust in Christ. And you gave some examples, the thief on the cross. And you have a number of people that are just think of the first couple weeks of the book of Acts, who has developed the theology of the cross. You know, there's not a development of that early on, but all these people, thousands and thousands, are trusting in Jesus as the Messiah, as the rescuer in some significant way. So I think approaching this circumstance with the older daughter, adult daughter, who's got the capacity of a four year old, approaching him like the four year old whose mental capacity they have and appealing to him in that way with those kinds of words.
- [18:52]
A
And remember, and this goes back to what we've been saying the last couple episodes. Jesus is the one who saves, not our understanding. So we can have imperfect understanding and still be saved. Because Jesus is perfect and his work is perfect. So if she wants to follow Jesus, Jesus said, let the children come to me. God is as capable of changing someone's heart who has all sorts of understanding, a genius, and he's capable of changing the heart of a 4 year old or of a 25 year old who has the mind of a 4 year old. He is capable of doing that. And I think the, you know, again, go back to what they were saying in Acts. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. That is the simplest, simplest way of putting this that even a four year old can understand. Does she want to follow Jesus? Well, that is a good indication that she is saved even if she can't articulate all of these doctrines. And this is the beauty of Christianity. You can go, there's no end to the depth that we can go into if we want to or if we're able to. But it's also still so simple that a 4 year old can understand it. All right, Greg, we're out of time. Thank you so much, Chad and Lane and Charity, we appreciate hearing from you. And if you have a question and you just been meaning to ask and you haven't asked it yet, go to our website@str.org or you can go on X and use the hashtag Strask. We'd love to hear your question. This is Amy hall and Greg Kochl for Stand to Reason.