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- [00:13]
A
Thanks for joining us today for some more practical type questions. And this first one comes from Vonnie. This culture turned our dear daughter away from the faith. She grew up in broken hearts, but still have a good relationship with her. If we avoid faith or politics. Advice.
- [00:32]
B
Well, I think most people know that I face a similar situation in my own family. And I have said in the past that my goal at this point is not to convince my daughter of my view, but to convince my daughter of my love. And that's been my M.O. for a number of years now. And when things come up kind of naturally. I don't know if naturally is the right word, but there have been times when she's asked me about some things and I talk about some of them. I won't go into detail, but mostly it's from a contrarian perspective. And I do my best very calmly to give my reasons and my rationale without being kind of an attack mode. I mean, that's not usually my style. But even so, it's, it's. If your dad and it's your daughter, then it's easy to kind of have that kind of posturing that may be a little bit too aggressive, especially if your daughter's a young adult or an adult. And so I've just tried to respond, but I haven't introduced anything. I'm just praying, praying, praying, praying. And one of the things that I pray for my daughter and I was praying this morning coming into the office about this, is that God would bring people into her life that love Jesus and that she can relate to in a different way than she relates to me. And with not whatever kind of baggage she thinks she has from the family or from me personally getting into the way, God getting in the way. She's just somebody who's at school. She goes to a state school here in California. And, you know, somebody that can communicate with her in a way that would make sense to her and would resonate with her own heart. So that's my posture. And sometimes you can't you lay the foundation and then you just have to let things take their course. You know how talked about this was David Tripp, I think, who Guy writes a lot about family and stuff, and solid Christian guy. But he said, look, you can't control your kids. You do your best, and sometimes your best isn't so good. But that's just you do what you can do, and then you've just got to let the Lord take over more completely without your involvement. When you move past a stage where you're not that kind of. You don't have that kind of role in their life. Obviously, when they're younger and under your care, you're going to put boundaries around. You're going to talk about things, you're going to say, this is okay, but that's not okay. And I would avoid saying the way my dad and many have said, well, you're living in my house. This way it's going to be. Now, I think there's a legitimacy to that point, but I think putting it that way just sounds like a power move. The legitimacy is that when your children are living in your home, they are under your care, you are responsible for them. And in light of you caring for them and being responsible for them, there are certain boundaries or rules that you got, boundaries you'll acknowledge or observe and rules that you're going to live by. And so it's not like my way or the highway. This is my house, my rules. I mean, that way of putting it frames it in an entirely different spirit than what I think it should be, even though in a certain sense you are getting at the same point. But what I've already always said to my daughters is I said, look, you are under our care. You're under our authority. It's our job to take care of you. It's our job to love you and provide for you and take care of your needs. And in light of that, as long as that's the relationship, then we're going to have something to say about the way you live in our home under our care and authority.
- [04:44]
A
And I would say, too, if you're avoiding talking about it directly to her unless it comes up in some way, like you mentioned, Greg, what you can do, and it's unclear to me if she's still living with them or not. That's unclear. But especially if she's living with you, this is an opportunity for you to live in a way that's very open about your beliefs, even if you're not directly advocating for them. She sees you reading your Bible and helping others and fellowshipping with others and caring for other Christians and showing grace to people. And she sees you being open about your sin and your guilt and apologizing and celebrating grace. All of these things are really beautiful. And let her experience that beauty. Compared to the culture, the culture has no grace. So my guess is she thinks to be a good person, you have these kind of leftist, progressive views, and you have certain views about sexuality and other things, and you fight for those, and you try to destroy everyone who disagrees with you. And if anyone is against that, there's really no way back. If anyone sins against progressive use, there's no method, there's no provision for grace for people. And we see this happening over and over. We see people getting canceled and their lives destroyed and all these things and
- [06:17]
B
even parents from children.
- [06:19]
A
Yeah. So if you. But grace is beautiful. So the more she sees grace demonstrated in your family and with your friends and the more she sees you treating people with dignity and the more she sees you celebrating the grace in your own life and not being afraid of your sin. Because think about it, if you have no provision for grace, you have to hide your sin and you have to be very self righteous and make everyone think you're perfect so that you don't get canceled. But if you can be open about your sin, there's something very freeing and beautiful about that and your trust in Jesus and your love for him and all of these things, just live with those things on display kind of unapologetically and let her see the difference between that and the culture. And I think that is probably the best way forward right now. And then when these things do come up, make your goal clarity, not persuasion. As soon as you feel like you need to persuade now, you start getting tense and you start getting, getting upset that you can't convince her. Don't even worry about that. Let the Holy Spirit do the work in her heart. You make it as clear as possible. If she has an objection, say, well, I'm happy to explain the reasoning behind this. And you just lay it out for her very clearly without this kind of defensiveness behind it and just let it go and see what the Holy Spirit does with that.
- [07:52]
B
I have a couple things to add to that. It's great. You know, Christian Smith and Melissa, was it Melissa, Melinda Denton, they wrote this book back in 2005 about young people. That's where the phrase moralistic therapeutic deism came from. Well, he continued to do studies about Christian families. He's at Notre Dame, I think, or had been. And a number of years later he came out with another study. And the study showed that the biggest influence on the children of Christians in staying with Christianity and growing up and adopting Christianity as their own view was something you mentioned, Amy, and that is the consistency of the parents to live according to their own Christian beliefs. And what he said, it's almost deterministic. That is, if you have parents that are consistently Christian in all their life, in all aspects of their life, then something like 85% or more of the Children stay with Christ, eventually they land with Christianity, even though there may be deviations along the way, which is kind of normal. So. So that's something to keep in mind. And I love what you said about clarity, not persuasion. That's good for all kinds of conversations. One other thing, when you're at home living out your behavior and see, I have this in the back of my mind when my wife and I are talking about political elements and moral issues in the culture and everything, I have to be careful of not sounding nasty or regarding the other side, because this is another side that in some ways members of my own family might identify with or some of their ideas. And so if I'm being nasty regarding this other group of people, then others might just take umbrage at it indirectly. And so we just have to be careful that we are in our behaviors, characteristically, that we are being charitable as we talk about others that don't believe the way we do. And they're watching that.
- [10:12]
A
We talked a few, I don't know how many episodes ago, it was maybe four or five. But we talked about being shaped by the Gospel and having humility and how important that is. And I think that all helps. Kind of reflecting on the Titus 3 passage about why we treat people well, and it's because we used to be that way, and God saved us and his kindness, his kindness changed us. He came to us in grace, and that's why. That's why we should treat others that same way. So there are ways that we can work on being shaped by the Gospel and reflecting on our own need for grace that will change the way we interact with others. All right, here's a question from Kristen. I've been a Christian for approximately 35 years, and I'm feeling very cold to evangelism and a deeper understanding of Scripture. I'm looking for some advice on where to get started. I have contemplated going back to get my master's in divinity, but would rather not spend the money on that right now. Where would you recommend I start?
- [11:22]
B
Hmm. Well, this interesting question. Basically, she's saying I'm cold and I want to get warmed up. And I don't know if kind of going to seminary.
- [11:33]
A
I don't recommend that to people.
- [11:34]
B
It's going to warm you up generally. I shouldn't say generally, but oftentimes hot Christians get cooled off in a more academic environment, you know, because there's rigor that's involved and whatever. I'm not saying seminary is bad, obviously, because I, you know, I have two master's degree in those kinds of issues. So nevertheless that can be problematic. I'm not exactly sure how to recommend a person get warmed up, except to get involved more in putting your personal life on the line for things, for kingdom issues. I remember a time in my life, it was a long time ago and I was having a lot of conflict in my personal life and I just wanted to get away from it all and have a fresh start of sorts. And so I volunteered to work in a Cambodian refugee camp in Thailand for seven months. I'm not recommending that for everyone, but it was a great opportunity. I kept a very detailed diary of everything that happened every day. Almost still have that seven months. And what it did is it refocused my life. I found that I had to pray more and focus more and kind of forget about myself and my own issues, which is one of the reasons I wanted to go. It was an adventure too. I was only when I was 32 years old and single, you know, so I loved adventure and this was an adventure, but it was also a spiritual adventure, not just a personal adventure. Living in a third world country out in the Chung Wat, out in the provinces, you know, where they had cobras and bandit crates and elephants and monkeys and all kinds of crazy stuff. It forced me to focus on the needs of someone else, which were grave in that circumstance in that Cambodian refugee camp and get out of myself a little bit. And that refocusing, I think helped my relationship with the Lord. I don't know if I would say my heart was cold towards God or cool, but there were a lot of distractions that were kind of looking inside and self centered with these issues and it was good to have a change. So RX in this circumstance might be, no, don't go to seminary. That's not going to help, I don't think. Not now. Amy's laughing, but maybe go find some place where you could be regularly involved in the lives of people who have needs. And there are plenty of those places to be available and just serve. Just think about serving as a servant of Christ, serving other people. So it isn't like you're, oh, I'm going to try something entirely different. You're not going to leave God behind for a year. And some people have proposed that, you know, a year without God. You remember that guy?
- [14:52]
A
Yes,
- [14:54]
B
but rather you're going to say, I'm going to focus on my relationship with God by focusing on other people's needs and not my own frame of mind or dissatisfactions or emotional coolness towards God. Or whatever.
- [15:09]
A
Plus it puts you.
- [15:09]
B
Does that make sense?
- [15:10]
A
Yeah. And it puts you in a situation where you have to depend on God, so you're forced to come to him and know him better. I think in any of those situations, whether it's serving in some way or going out and doing evangelism purposefully, whatever it is, if you're in a situation where you need God, you're going to turn to Him. I just want to say something quick about seminary before I go into what I think my main answer would be, but that was my first thought. Greg. The thing about seminary is you have to be very intentional to keep up a personal relationship and communion with God. Because suddenly all these things about God are. It's basically your work. And there's the danger of getting burned out. There's the danger of thinking that studying is the same thing as communing with God. There's all sorts of dangers. And you have to be really intentional to not let that make things hard. And seminary is a wonderful thing, but you just need to be aware that there are. You have to be really intentional.
- [16:15]
B
I mean, there are people who just. They call it cemetery, not seminary, for a reason, because of some of those liabilities.
- [16:21]
A
And it's just. You get burned out. You're thinking about God in a different way because it's your work. It's a whole thing, by the way,
- [16:29]
B
that doesn't mean you can't maybe learn more about God and other beings and refresh your understanding of God. But seminary is not the way to do it. Maybe some other books right now.
- [16:39]
A
Right now?
- [16:40]
B
Yes, right now.
- [16:41]
A
All right, so my main answer is actually going to be similar to my last answer about how to interact with the daughter. And that is, I think you need to see the beauty of God. I think what you need is to see God and the gospel more clearly and let him change your desires as you see his beauty. And there are different ways to do this. Being in fellowship with other Christians, this is another thing. Sometimes just being around other people who are living in ways that show that they love God and that he's central in their life. This can be very inspiring. Reading stories of people in the past who went through all sorts of things and for the Lord's sake, that's another thing that helps.
- [17:34]
B
I'm just thinking of Corrie 10 boom and the hiding Place Torture for Christ by Warren Brandt. I used to read a lot about Hudson Taylor and his China Inland Mission. There are different books related to that. Biographies of godly people who did amazing things because they trusted God. That's a good choice.
- [17:58]
A
And another, obviously another way is just to start a Bible reading discipline. Even if you are feeling cold, sometimes you just have to get over that initial thing and you start putting that information into your soul and you start seeing God in other ways and you can kind of stoke that fire. There are a couple other ways that I can think about. I think we can get somewhat complacent if we're around Christians all the time because we forget what's different about our worldview. So if you are close to non believers, sometimes you start to see the difference between the life that they or the world they're living in. I mean, obviously we're all living in the same world, but the way they view the world and their lives and suddenly you see the difference. And that can really bring about a sympathy for their situation and a desire for them to know God. So that can really help with being cold to evangelism if you can see what they're going through without God. Another thing that's helped me in the past is reading about other religions again. This brings the. Brings to light the differences and you realize, oh man, I would not want to live in a religion like say it's Latter Day Saint theology or whatever it is, that's Mormonism, and having to fulfill this list of commands in order to get to the highest level of heaven or whatever it is. And you start to appreciate the grace way more when you read about how they are living and what their goals are and how they're trying to achieve them. Because again, we forget. We forget. We start to take grace for granted and we stop seeing it as the miraculous, unique, wonderful thing that it is. So reading about other religions, getting to know non Christians and above all, getting to know God better through fellowship, through Bible reading, through reading good books about Him. There are all sorts of ways. And I think maybe just stop putting pressure on yourself and just say, I'm just going to step back and I'm going to look. I'm going to look at God and I'm going to look at him through all these different ways and let him rekindle the fire in me.
- [20:25]
B
Yeah, I'm trying to think of books that I have read in the past that had an impact like that. I've read lots and lots of books over the years. I have one though, that you recommended by Thaddeus Williams that I haven't read yet, but I.
- [20:42]
A
Do you remember Revering God?
- [20:44]
B
Yeah, Revering God. Do you think that you had recommended it to me and we both know Thad, he's over at Biola. Were you recommending it because it would serve that purpose a little bit.
- [20:58]
A
I'm trying to remember now. I think, yeah, it looks at, gosh, it's been a couple years since I've read it, but I think it looks at different worldview issues and how they reveal God. So yeah, for sure. That's another one I really liked was Basic Christianity by John Stott, John Piper's Desiring God. Yeah, there are so many great books. There's one called Knowing God by Knowing God, Gospel Deeps by Jared Wilson. There are all sorts of books out there. And you can ask your pastor, maybe you can get a group together and start reading about who God is and looking at him because you're not going to drum up these feelings in yourself. You have to see something to love. The way to love someone is not to just make yourself love them. The way to love them is to see them in all their different aspects.
- [21:49]
B
And that love, love happens. It isn't a choice. I'm talking about emotional love now. The emotions don't they happen because of other things. This is why I think the argument that God's not going to. You can't force somebody to love you. Well, nobody forces love. It's not within our capability. We have to love freely. It's not a matter of freedom. But I will say, and this sounds a little self serving, a book that I read to lift my spirit a little bit and to refresh me about the good things of God is a story of reality.
- [22:22]
A
I can't believe that wasn't the first. I love that book and that is a great, that's a great book to read for this, the Story of Reality. So maybe start that. Get a group together. Get a group together, read that book, see how beautiful God is and the gospel is and then see what the Holy Spirit does through that. All right, thank you so much, Vani and Kristin and we'd love to hear from you. Just send your question on X with the hashtag strask or go to our website@str.org this is Amy hall and Greg Kochl for Stand to Reason.