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- [00:13]
A
This is the Strask podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. And Greg, this first question comes from csg. Where does Scripture teach unambiguously that Jesus is God? Saying I am isn't saying unambiguously that he is God. And Jesus also said he wasn't God when being called a blasphemer. So when you say unambiguously, what do you actually mean?
- [00:38]
B
Well, ego ami, which is the Greek I am and the Greek characterization of God's name from the Old Testament, from what Exodus 4 A burning bush I am, that I am was unambiguous to the people who heard it. The problem here, partly, and I have more to say about this, but with regards to this particular reference, we are reading the text with 20th century American eyes and not with 1st century Jewish eyes. They understood what Jesus was claiming. When he says, before Abraham was I am before Abraham was. He is describing prior existence to Abraham and he is reciting in Greek the Hebrew reference to God I am that I am in the book of Exodus. I don't know why this isn't clear to somebody that this is the point that was making. It certainly was clear to the Jews who many times picked up stones to stone Jesus as an act of execution, a capital punishment for blasphemy. Leviticus talks about this. You can't do that. You can't blaspheme the name of God. And they saw that and they were picking up stones to stone him. By the way, some people will. And this is a similar kind of thing. Oh, he never claimed to be the Son of. Yes, he never claimed to be God. He only claimed to be the Son of God. What they don't realize is that the claim to be the Son of God was an explicit claim to deity in the parlance of that culture and with the Jews. Which is why when he makes the claim to be the Son of God, he is also making this claim to divinity. At his trial, he was asked a very specific question that got him condemned. And what's interesting is the question that answered secured the way. He answered the question, secured his condemnation, and it was the reason that he was executed. The high priest asked, are you the Christ? By the way, is it a crime to be the Christ or to claim to be the Christ? No, they were all expecting a Messiah. Are you the Christ, the Son of God? And Jesus said, you have said it yourself. And then he kind of adds insult to injury and he says, you will not see. I'm not sure if he used the Son of God or Son of Man, probably Son of Man language there until you see him coming in the clouds with power and great glory. And this is a reference to Daniel maybe seven, I'm not sure where the Son of Man is a divine figure there at the right hand of power coming out of the clouds. And so he doubles down when he said he is the Son of God and he is the Son of Man that is depicted in Daniel. And the priest tears his robes and he said, you have blasphemed and you are worthy of death. So what was the blasphemy? That was a cast capital crime. That's the question in Jesus. Well, the blasphemy was this making himself equal with God. It was a divine claim and this is why he was executed. Jesus was executed not for what he did, but for who he said he was. And it wasn't the messianic claim because that's not a capital crime. So the difficulty here, and it's a somewhat understandable, but sometimes it's annoying, the difficulty here is that we're reading a text in a different culture 2000 years later, and we are understanding the words the way kind of Americans would understand these words and we are not hearing them as the original listeners would hear them. And that is precisely what's required to be able to get a proper understanding of what's being claimed in the texts. So I say it makes me a little, little bit annoyed because people should know a little bit better. And when you read the text and you see the way the Jewish leadership responded to the claims that seem innocuous to 21st century years, you see the way the Jewish leaders responded, you see how they understood what Jesus had to say. Okay, so that's just. I'm not buying the kind of hand waving and dismissing of ego Eimi I am. That's not clear. Of course it's clear. Jesus put his life on the line for an ambiguity. The Jews wanted to stone him multiple times. They got to this point for an ambiguity. Oh, that's not clear. That's just some kind of. And by the way, why didn't Jesus correct them? No, no, no, no, I didn't mean that. You're misunderstanding here.
- [05:58]
A
Well, he's claiming that he did do that, but I think we'll get to that in a minute.
- [06:02]
B
Okay, yeah, that' the John 10 passage. We will get to that. Okay, so first, I'm not going to buy the hand waving about Egoimi I am. And all the different ways that Jesus did it. And not everyone, I will admit, I am the Bread of life, I am the living water. I am the Alpha and the Omega. Although there is a text in the Old Testament where God identifies himself as that. And so you do get these kind of cross references, this is indirect. Now, where the text is claiming the same thing about Jesus that seems to be unique about the Father Yahweh in the Old Testament, there's a whole bunch of those verses that are like that, but that's implicit. Okay, but how about this? John 1:1:3. And if there is any ambiguity or confusion or mystery in someone's mind about the first verse and maybe the second, there shouldn't be any confusion about the third. So here's what it said. In the beginning was the Word. Now, notice that John is parroting in the beginning of Jesus life, the language at the beginning of the entire story. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. All right, we all know that verse. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. John says, in the beginning, that's that beginning was the Word. In other words, at the very time God created everything, the Word was there. He was with God, the text says. And he was God, the text says. By the way, I don't know, somebody said. Where does it say Jesus was God? John 1:1. Now, I know Jehovah's Witnesses do dances with the Greek, but they're the only ones who do that because they are Arminian. I'm not Arminian. They are Arian. In their view, that's an ancient heresy. They deny Jesus as God, so they gotta mess with that verse because it says he is. But their Greek treatment is not good. But keep reading. He was in the beginning with God. That's the next phrase, verse 3. All things came into being through Him. The antecedent to the him is the Word. And apart from him, nothing came into being that has come into being. In other words, this one called the Word, which later on, verse 14, says, the word became flesh and dwelt among us. That's Jesus, the second person of the Trinity, the Word. Even if you don't accept, let's leave the Trinity language out for a moment. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. The Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. And all things came into being through Him. And apart from him, nothing came into being that has come into being. That is the Word, unmistakably in the grammar of that sentence. And it's very simple. The Word is the un created Creator. Okay, so now I'm just going to paraphrase in light of the language there, and there's nothing tricky. I'm not even exegeting, I'm just reading. So I'm going to paraphrase just a bit based on what we just learned from that verse and compare it to Genesis 1:1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1, John 1:1 3. In the beginning, the Word created the heavens and the earth. Ergo, the Word is God, which is what it says in verse one. Why is this so difficult for people who take the text reasonably seriously? By the way, you don't even have to believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God to see grammatically what it's claiming for itself, claiming regarding Jesus. And incidentally, and I don't have all my notes right here, but when I teach on this, I have a number of other passages that says Jesus is God. I think there's some in Titus. There's one. I don't want to misspeak here, but there's a couple of places. Colossians, maybe. Colossians does have a powerful verse where it talks about all things are held together by Him. In Hebrews it says he is the radiance of his essence and the exact representation of his nature. In John 5, Jesus says that the Father has given all, that the people should honor me even as they honor the Father. Huh. And this is a passage where the Jews were picking up stones to stone him because he had called Jesus his Father. Let me just read it because it is so interesting they challenge him on this particular claim. My Father is working, and I am working too, is what he says. And verse 17. My father is working now, and I myself am working. For this reason, Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, he was calling God his own Father. Watch this. Making himself equal with God. Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, truly I say to you, the Son of God can do nothing of Himself unless something he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does these things, the Son also does in like manner. What's going on here with this relationship. Next verse. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all things that He Himself is doing. And the Father will show him greater works than those so that you will marvel. Well, that's not very controversial. So he's following God. Keep reading. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom he wishes. For not even the Father judges anyone, but he has given all judgment to the Son. Keep reading. So that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. What? That's total, complete blasphemy. And that whole section taken together ties his claim. Sorry, his claim to that Goddess's Father, which they already recognize as a divine claim, which is why they want to kill him. And doubles down by saying, this relationship between the Father and I is so close that I get all the honor that is due the Father. Now, their heads must have been, like, ready to explode at that point. But this is just another passage. There are lots of them like that. But I would say this is not, like, implicit. So vague. Read the passage and you've given a
- [13:33]
A
lot of examples of things Jesus says, but this isn't even specifically what Jesus said. You mentioned a couple other verses too. This just says Scripture in general, so you can find plenty more in other passages. How about Philippians 2? Being in the very form of God, did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing.
- [13:53]
B
Right? Right. And if you keep reading, in that passage, it says, so that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus as Lord. This is ceased. Out of Isaiah, people could look up the cross reference. It's the exact same words, except for in Isaiah, every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Yahweh is Lord. And now the same ascription from Isaiah is being applied to Jesus by Paul in Philippians 3.
- [14:18]
A
And by the way, Paul uses that same quote in Romans and refers to God, saying, every tongue shall confess and every knee shall bow to God. So he uses it in both senses in two different books.
- [14:37]
B
And by the way, that says Jesus as Lord, the word Lord could be used to describe somebody of social stature. He was the Lord of the manor. He was the lord of the property. He was the Lord of the community. The only other way to use it is as the Lord, that is the Lord God. And in a religious sense, it was always used to refer to God. Yet it was the most common way that Jesus was described by the members of the early church. And all through Scripture, the Lord has come, the Lord has arrived. The Lord has told us this for you. He's seen the Lord over and over and over again. This kind of ascription is being used. Well, the phrase the Lord was being used to describe Jesus as the master, not just the teacher, but the Lord, that is the Lord God. And when you follow the usage of the word Lord, it's applied equally to God and to Jesus, God the Father and to Jesus. And there's more we could say about this, we're just kind of going off the top of our heads mostly with what we know. And so we have a very strong case for not only explicit characterizations of God that's not just vague, certainly when you listen with the ears of the 1st century people to whom this was written and who understood the proclaims Jesus was making. But then all the implicit stuff that you find in the text as well.
- [16:21]
A
I have a couple more verses that came to mind for me. This one is from the high priestly prayer in John 17. Jesus says, Now Father, glorify me together with yourself with the glory which I had with you before the world was. I don't know how that could be anything but divine.
- [16:41]
B
Because in the Old Testament, like Isaiah, right around Isaiah 45, there's a bunch of characterizations of Yahweh where it says, yahweh only, this, only Yahweh, this, only Yahweh, this. He's the first and the last. He's the only savior, he's the only rock, he's blah, blah, blah. Well, all of these characterizations, like this one you're mentioning here, receiving glory, I will give my glory to none other, are given unashamedly to Jesus.
- [17:08]
A
Yeah. So not only is he receiving the same glory as the Father, but before the world was. And that can only refer to a divine figure.
- [17:19]
B
Right.
- [17:20]
A
Here's another one. This one comes from John 3:13. No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended from heaven, the Son
- [17:30]
B
of Man, I thought he was born of Mary. He's confused.
- [17:35]
A
So clearly he descended from heaven. Now you've got to keep in mind this is not the way that the Bible describes anyone else as being created before the foundation of the world and then comes to earth in some way.
- [17:49]
B
Yeah. This is a Mormon doctrine, actually, the pre existence.
- [17:54]
A
Right. And this verse says, no one has ascended, but he who descended, that's one person. He who descended, that's Jesus. So he's different from all other human beings in this way. And here's one, this one is. This one's a little bit. This is indirect, so this isn't unambiguous. But I'm just gonna throw this out as an example of an indirect teaching that Jesus is God from something that Jesus said. And this comes from the story of the rich young ruler. And what happens is he comes to Jesus and he says, let me find this here.
- [18:33]
B
Good teacher.
- [18:34]
A
Is that good teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said to him, why do you call me good? No one is Good, except God alone. Then he says, which in itself is pointing to his goodness and being God. But this is what he says. He says, you know the commandments, do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not defraud, honor your father and mother. Now, what's really interesting about this is that previously in a previous chapter, whenever he's. And in other books, whenever he's asked, what is the greatest commandment, what does he say?
- [19:09]
B
Love God.
- [19:10]
A
Love God. That's the greatest commandment. But notice here he does not mention that at all. He says, how do I earn eternal life? He says, all the other commandments not to do with God. So he's the second part, which is the second greatest commandment. And so then he says, well, teacher, I've kept all these things from my youth up and looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, one thing you lack, go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven and come, follow me, me. And I truly think this is the first commandment because he left it out of the entire list that he gave him, even though he knows it's the most important commandment. So then he says, no, what you miss is you're not following me. And then he walks away, which means. And of course, this is indirect, but I don't know how else to read this. Why would he leave the most important commandment out?
- [20:08]
B
What's important about the way we're arguing here is what we're doing is we're establishing the teaching based on direct, clear, unambiguous passages or lines of thinking. Excuse me, like the reference to Jesus. Rather the reference to God and the characteristics of God that are now part applied to Jesus. And given that solid foundation, we are also seeing other passages that seem to be innuendo, supporting what is also clear. So we're not just starting with some crazy innuendo and trying to build upon a passage, pardon me, that could mean different things. I'm sorry, that could mean different things that are ambiguous and are open to interpretation. In light of the clear things, we can follow a standard biblical principle. You interpret the unclear in light of the clear. And this, as you pointed out, I not noticed this before, so this is an insight for me too, that Jesus. This fits in with the pattern, let's just put it that way.
- [21:20]
A
So once you do have the clear teaching, you start to see these kinds of things everywhere. So there you go.
- [21:28]
B
Now, just before you jump away from that, first, some people have quoted this passage to me saying, jesus denied being God. Why do you call me good? Only God is good. There you go. And I say, there I go what? See, Jesus is denying to be God. No, he's not. He's only saying that only God is good. He didn't say he wasn't good and he wasn't God. Other passages, Jesus says, who convicts me of sin? Who accuses me of any sin? And Isaiah 53, there's a passage in there that talks about him living righteously or whatever. No blemish or whatever. So that's not an escape. Oh, well, Jesus said, nobody's good but God alone. Right. And therefore what? That Jesus is God? He didn't say that.
- [22:26]
A
Notice that. It makes complete sense to me that Jesus wouldn't go around saying absolutely clearly announcing, I am God, I am God, because he would not get very far. He has to prove he's God by what he's doing so that people can have a reason to believe that what he's saying is true. And how would he do that? If immediately he comes out and says, I am God, he would be done because nobody, I would not blame them at all. Why would you believe some person who comes out of nowhere and says, I am God? Instead, he introduces it through what he does. He introduces it in various ways. He leads people to it through their own reasoning. And when you get to the end, we can see the whole picture now. We can see the later commentary on it from Paul and other people who wrote later. And we see the entire picture.
- [23:17]
B
It would be interesting to see where these more clear statements of being son of God kind of pop up. We have John chapter five, for example. So that's fairly early where Jesus makes the comments that I just made where Jews are looking stones to stone him. But that's an interesting point. It'll be interesting to see how soon he starts to speak in more explicit terms. Well, actually, Mark 2, where he heals the paralytic that's dropped down through the season, the ceiling. This is kind of a implicit, not explicit. But he says, your sins are forgiven. And people say, who can forgive sins but God alone? Then he heals in order that you will know that the Son of Man, also a divine reference, has the power, authority rather to forgive sin. I say to you, arise, seek your pell.
- [24:08]
A
So he's laying that whole foundation with proof. Yes, and he's saying it in a clear way, but also so you can say, well, how does this fit together without just beating you over the head with it? At that moment. Well, part of this question, and we're gonna save it for the answer for the next episode, but part of this question was Jesus also said he wasn't God when being called a blasphemer, which I think he's referring to John 10, which our second question was going to be about John 10.
- [24:37]
B
So this is a cliffhanger here.
- [24:39]
A
So this is a cliffhanger.
- [24:39]
B
We're gonna hold on the next episode.
- [24:41]
A
Yes, in the next episode, we will respond to a question specifically about that. So you'll have to join us to hear the end of that. Thank you so much. Thank you, csg for your questions. And if you have a question, make sure you go to X and just use the hashtag strask. Or you can go to our website@str.org and if you just go look for the podcast, look for the hashtag STR Ask podcast page and you'll find a link there and we will add your question to our list. All right, thank you so much for listening. This is Amy hall and Greg Koukl for Stand to Reason.
- [25:13]
B
Sam.