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- [00:00]
A
All right, guys, welcome to Stronger. My guest today is a very good friend of mine and one of the world's greatest endurance athletes, David Kilgore. This is the first of three episodes with David that we'll be putting out over the next few months, and today I wanted to start with the basics of running. It seems like we're in the golden age of run clubs, and it's never been easier to get started. Dave talks us through the fundamentals of running in just 20 minutes. Let's go. All right, brother. So when someone says, I want to become a runner, where do you think they should actually begin?
- [00:38]
B
When somebody says, I want to become a runner, I think they should automatically begin by joining some type of, like, run club, run community, finding a friend. I feel like it just keeps you, like, accountable. It makes it really, like, light and fun. And then also a lot of. There's so many run clubs right now. I feel like it's in its heyday that it's so accessible. I think it's. You're always starting off with, like, easy base mileage, and again, it's not too intimidating where you're not jumping into, like, a super aggressive, like, track workout, like, right away. I think it still keeps it light, poppy, fun. So you're. You're wanting to come back the next time instead of being like, oh, my God, I'm dragging this whole time. This was absolutely horrible. I never want to do this activity again.
- [01:19]
A
How do those run clubs work, though? Is it something where it's like, you join a club and it's three days a week? Or can you opt in, like, say, if someone wanted or if I wanted to join a run club and do it once a week or twice a week? Like, do you have that option? Or, like, are you joining a club specifically to the goal of the club?
- [01:35]
B
Yeah, so that's. That's the cool part about a lot of these run clubs. One, like, being like, in a big city or near a big city, there's usually so many different types of run clubs now. So you can go to one. Like, for example, I'm in Miami right now. I could go to probably two different run clubs every single day that I wanted to. But you can always just pick one day a week and be like, hey, most of the time, I'm busy with my regular work schedule. I need to get out and do some of the mileage and stuff with either my next door neighbor or sometimes by myself. And then every Wednesday night, I like to go meet up with the club, get a little Refresher, get some extra energy in with all the people at the club and then continue on. And it's really fun too, a lot with these run clubs. They're partnering with local businesses and there's so many different, like, pace groups, so you're able to run the pace that you need to. And then afterwards, everybody usually is usually having like a great time having some drinks or having some food afterwards.
- [02:25]
A
It's become like the new happy hour. What's actually beautiful about it is that even if they are having a couple drinks afterwards or whatever it is, a lot of them aren't.
- [02:33]
B
And.
- [02:33]
A
And some people can opt into wanting to do it or not wanting to do it. I really. You look at alcohol sales now and it has plummeted, but it's for, I think, a really good reason. I mean, what. What the hell is it? I was in a place in Toronto called Other Ship. It's got nothing to do with running, but it's like a. A sauna spot where like, like 9pm this place was jamming. People are like, in there socializing. And I'm like, wow, times have really changed since, you know, I started as a trainer in 1999. I was walking home from the gym every night and walking by every bar and everyone's outside having drinks. I'm not saying that still doesn't exist, but it makes me feel good to see that it really has kind of reverted this a bit.
- [03:12]
B
Oh, it's so cool, man. I mean, there's also so many different. I feel like even when we're ending at some, like, traditional bars, and there's even like these, like, more like holistic wellness bars where it's. There's like juices and mocktails that people are doing like, such an extraordinary job with. So I'm with you, man. I mean, it's always fun to go out and have a few drinks, but I think it's a really cool, cool option to have. Like, what a big especially. I feel like for both of us, we've been in that, the health and fitness world, like, forever, that it's. It's just a really cool, like, turn of the tables to see, you know?
- [03:43]
A
I love it. So what do you think? I mean, most recreational runners, someone's listening to this and they want to join a run club. What do you think the biggest mistake they're making? I mean, they join the run club and they're getting some guidance, but what's the mistake that a lot of these recreational runners are making?
- [03:57]
B
I think, I think going in and being Too aggressive at the club. I feel like, you know, everybody always has a little bit of ego. Everybody wants to do as, be successful at whatever they're doing and jump in and try really hard. But I think again, I. If you're, if you're doing some distance running, you need to put in a good amount of like, base mileage before you. I feel like you're taking some of these next steps to putting in some really hard efforts where you're going to feel, feel comfortable in. So I feel like sometimes people are, I don't know, again, just jumping the gun a little bit too fast and running too many mile miles right off the right, right out of the gate and then also being a little bit too intense with the intensity of the workouts because I don't know if you're doing something that's intense all the time and you just wake up every day beaten up, you're like, I don't know if this sports for me.
- [04:43]
A
Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting. I mean, I've learned a lot from you with, with running because there's a lot of variability in running that most people don't think about. They. I'm going to go run three, I'm going to go run five. And they're almost, you know, a little bit. I don't want to say basics bad, but there's so many. There's so many things I see you focus on, like, you'll focus on speed work, you'll focus on intervals, you'll focus on, you know, hill training. I mean, some of the ultras you've run. I mean, I remember the Leadville, which we'll get to later on, that was incredibly hilly. So to improve someone's endurance and also keep them really engaged, do you think it's beneficial in the beginning for someone to be thinking about this, or do you think it's like, hey, start with the basics, start, start with a mile, three mile, whatever it is, and then we'll get into those things later on.
- [05:29]
B
Yeah, I think it's always great to have a huge platform of like just a huge base of just the basics to start off the base with. But I think I saw something on a podcast that you were talking about the other day, Don, actually, that you were like, hey, I like to add like a new stimulus and kind of almost like a benchmarker, like as time goes on, because if you throw everything at somebody all at once, again, it's going to be too intimidating. They're going to be like, taken back and it's Just going to be too much. And it's also like too much for normal people, like, if you haven't been doing this activity for a million years, for them to lock in, to remember you're doing too many things all at once. So like you said, it's just like adding a new stimulus and kind of continuing to grow as a, as a person, as an athlete in the space.
- [06:14]
A
Yeah, I see it a lot in training. I'll see people will see specific modalities or approaches like benching with chains and benching with bands and all these things that might work for a really advanced trainee, but they haven't really laid down that strength foundation yet. Or in your case, that aerobic base. Right. So just going out and doing some steady state work and, you know, people talk zone two and where should it be in zone three, is it even appropriate? But just going out. Remember the days where we didn't use heart rate monitors?
- [06:43]
B
Right.
- [06:43]
A
You just kind of went out and you would control it based off of rpe, you know, rate of perceived exertion. I think a lot of people just going out and laying down that foundation. That's kind of where it started for you, right?
- [06:55]
B
Yeah, without a doubt. Just laying down that foundation. I had a lot of, like, great mentors and coaches when I was, I was a young person. I mean, really honestly, through my whole life, which I'm super thankful for, but mainly when I was a young person and, and structuring that base and that foundation, it was just amazing because it was the fundamentals. But they also thought of, like, really cool ways to make it fun and entertaining. Like, for example, my coaches in high school when I started adding in, like, some like, new intervals and stuff like that, we did this thing called like 200 tags, and instead of just like doing like, flat out 200 meter repeats, like really hard, it would be like you team up with another teammate on the team and you kind of like, have these, like, little competition and like, tag offs. Um, so I think there's a huge piece of it, at least for, for my athletic journey of, of having a strong set of fundamentals, but then building that off with a ton of fun. And what's, like, what's making you want to come back to do the thing again? And that's different for everybody, right?
- [07:50]
A
Well, yeah, I mean, talking about burnout a bit, because in my industry, people burn themselves out. I think they start with too much and too hard or they're not giving themselves that rest or even like the variability piece, right? Like, this has got to be fun. I was talking, one of my buddies called me the other day about a. Someone that I used to work with that I handed off to him and he said, do you like this approach? And I said, listen, this is an old school approach and I do like it. But right now you got to keep this guy engaged. His biggest issue was that he just gets bored of stuff. So if a little bit, if there's a little bit too much variability in there, you know, according to the science. Everyone's so science driven now. Yeah, I don't give a about that. I'm more concerned with peeping someone consistent and keeping them enjoying it so they come back day in and day out. I mean, what do you see with runners? Is this something where you notice that people either get bored or, or they get burned out a little bit too quickly? It takes a special person to be able to go get run a hundred miles and just kind of get lost, you know?
- [08:48]
B
Yeah, without a doubt, man. You're. You're hitting, hitting the nail on the head. I think, for example, like a person like me, I, I started so young that I feel like it gave me such a. I don't know, it became like a, like a staple basically in my day to day life. That it wasn't something that I was like thinking of after a little while. And even when I got older, when, I don't know, I feel like other stimulants, just like in life in general are like coming into play that it was already, it had already been such a part of my life for so long that I was like, oh, like I, I get up, you know, get ready for the day I go running, I work out, I do those things. But I feel like somebody that's new to running specifically. Yeah, that's like a huge thing. I feel like so many people go out for a couple runs, especially by themselves, like, oh, I'm going for an hour run. Or they build up to an hour, hour and a half and they're like, this is so boring. I just like lose my train of thought. I ran through all the podcasts that I've ever wanted to listen to. I've listened to the same song like 80 million times. Um, so again, I feel like it's finding different ways that, yeah, that is fun for you. Maybe it's like going to explore a new trail each week. Maybe it's like putting yourself into a couple of different run clubs per week. Maybe it's doing more interval training because it's like once you get there, cause it's like a little bit more like stimulant. Um, so again, I think there's such a big piece in that where, yeah, people get bored a lot with running, and then another big flag is just like, yeah, people, people. I've taken a lot of just like, working out. Working out in general. People just go out too hard and then just get beaten up. Yeah.
- [10:14]
A
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- [10:35]
B
And.
- [10:35]
A
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- [11:22]
B
Yes. So you just come in, enter, no money at all. I don't think I've ever been to a run club, actually. That costs money. So it's pretty awesome. And a lot of. A lot of brands are behind these brands. A lot of brands are behind these run clubs now, too. So it's pretty cool. Like, I mean, they have, like, a decent amount of resources in most places.
- [11:39]
A
That's a. That's a. I mean, I think that's incredible. I mean, I. I didn't realize. I realized they were around, but I'm sure if I googled in my area Run Club in my zip code, they're going to spit out several different options. I mean, they're. They're everywhere now. Correct.
- [11:51]
B
Oh, guaranteed, man. Yeah. I feel like just in and around your neighborhood, I feel like I know, like, at least like, three off the top of my head, so I bet there's at least like, six plus. Yeah.
- [12:02]
A
All right. So beside the run club, what would be, you know, someone wants to start running, what would be one running habit that you know you want them to commit to over the next six months? What would that be?
- [12:14]
B
Just to simplify this one running habit, I would say strides or that's what my, my coach called them. I feel like a lot of people call it that, some people call them different things but basically it's, it's 100 to 200 meter type of like it's not like a full on sprint but it's like you really pick up the pace at the end of your easy runs. So it's, it's just teaching you better biomechanics which is just such a huge piece to running as well. It's so repetitious that having good biomechanics by running a little bit faster but not too long after you're doing your, your base mileage, it's going to help out so much because your body's just going to really learn how to run. Um, and it's going to set again, set the tone. So it's just going to make you a lot, it's going to make you a lot more efficient and it's going to keep you injury free.
- [12:59]
A
So it's probably like a 90% sprint on the last 200 meters type of thing. Like you're not going all out but you've, you know you're dropping it into fifth gear is what you're saying.
- [13:09]
B
Yeah, you see people do like I would say four to to 10 strides and it's like a hundred meters walk or jog back, a hundred meters, do another a hundred meters walk or jog back. And that's after say like I did my five mile run, I'm going to do four times strides and it could be a hundred to 200 meters of distance.
- [13:26]
A
Oh, so it's really just more like short, it's like short sprint work with like almost several intervals, you know, four sets. That's basically it.
- [13:35]
B
Yeah, exactly at like 80 to 90% effort. I love to pretty much get your biomechanics down.
- [13:41]
A
So how did you get like, what's your earliest memory of running? Like how did you, how did you get into this? Like where did the start?
- [13:47]
B
Yeah, so honestly Don, I just got incredibly, incredibly lucky to, to get put into this sport. I, I was always a super like athletic, always outside type of kid running around my neighborhood. I feel like I grew up in like a still. I was like on the cusp of, of children where I feel like you have all Those old stories where, like, it's like, come home when the street lights come on and that type of vibe. So I was always running around playing sports outside. And when I was younger, my parents had split, so I would go and visit my father sometimes. And I don't know, whenever I'd go visit him, like, you know, a couple times a month, like, I was just, you know, want to do things like my dad. And at the time he was in the gym, he got, like, pretty. Pretty buff. And he was like, oh, I. I think I need to do cardio to kind of like. Which I don't know if this is the truth or not or like, if this is. You could probably speak more on this. But he's like, I want to do a bunch of cardio to trim down a little bit, to kind of lean out because I'm a little too bulky. And so he started running. And when I saw him doing this, like, mile route around his house, when I go see him, he. He eventually let me come do that with him. And. And then I was going to the gym with him, and this lady who was. She was. She was probably like, I don't know, like, in her 40s or something. the time, I was just being a kid, too. Cause I was, like, running on the treadmill after I had this initial. Initial situation with my dad. I was like, doing all the things at the gym. I was, like, going on the elliptical, going super fast. As a kid, I would, like, get on the treadmill and run like a mile or two. But I would be like, I don't know, running. Running pretty quick just as a child and having fun with it. And this lady, Jackie Clifton, approached me on the treadmill and was like, hey, like. Like, are you here with somebody? Like, you look like a fast, like, little kid. And she actually, I. So then I was like, oh, like, I was, like, shy. I was like, oh, you want to go talk to my dad? So she went and talked to my dad, and she introduced me to my high school coach, who. His name's Doug Butler, and he's the. I still think he is. He's the most winningest, like, cross country, track and field distance coach in Florida State history, which I was just lucky. He was in my. He was in my area. And he also helped me get into this, like, really nice private school. And then after that, man, I was just in this, like, really incredible training, like, regime with this excellent coach who's also so strong with young people. And after that, it was just like the sky was the lunette I love it.
- [16:11]
A
So, I mean, you know, strength training or. You and I have talked about this in the past and I think the challenge with a lot of the ultra runners is, you know, you really got to give kind of a minimal effective dosage to where it's not, you know, eating into the task at hand. And you guys are putting so much mileage on your body throughout the week that I've always believed that the strength training should just, you should be touching it, it should be supporting and adding that resilience to your, that level of resilience to your foundation. Is that something you've always been into or do you feel like that's something you started incorporating later in your career?
- [16:46]
B
Um, it was something I started incorporating later into my career, which I, I think, I think it's, I think it's really important now. And I, you can kind of see like, there's been such a, such a shift in how fast kids are like today. And I think it's because of all the different, like there's of course a new, like, new types of shoes, apparel, track surfaces. They're incorporating different types of like training with like zone one, zone two, Zone three, like, and then also a lot more strength training at an earlier age. So I think it's really important and it's, it's been significantly more important as I've gotten definitely older as well, but it's something I didn't really do too much as a young person. And then in college is when I first started kind of like adding that stimulant to my train.
- [17:33]
A
Do you, do you find, I mean, getting into the zone training, do you find that's something that's helped you or do you think that's because there's a lot of people that I talk to and they're, they're being honest. They're, they're high level athletes and they're like, honestly, zone two is kind of mess me up a bit. I'm like, how so? They're like, you know, it's almost. A lot of the ranges are incorrect for high level athletes. So if you were to, you know, pull out, you know, a calculator and do 220 minus your age and then take your 60 to 70% of that, that's not like that's going to be you. You know, that's, that's probably nothing for you because you're just so used to performing at such a high level, getting. So are you embracing that or is that something that you're like, you know, what I've tried it. It doesn't really work for me.
- [18:16]
B
Yeah, it's not, it's something that doesn't really work for me either to be honest. And also like I'm a little bit of an old dog, I'm not going to lie. So I definitely love like more of the freedom of training and like, and running. I, I feel like I have such a strong base and knowledge because of all of the, the training and different types of like, yeah. Types of workouts, all the different like amazing coaches that I've been with over the year. Like I know what I'm doing just for myself personally but a lot of what I do is just based off my perceived effort. So I don't even use like a lot of like, I feel like markers in a lot of my training or like, like, I guess like biomarkers and stuff like that. I'm going a lot off like perceived feel.
- [18:55]
A
I think it's common for a lot of these, some of the high level runners that I've spoken to, like you said, teaching an old dog new tricks, they're just like, you know, I monitor it but I just, I gotta go by feel. There's certain mornings I'm waking up and heart rate variability is saying you're ready to go and I feel like crap. And there's other days, vice versa, you know. And you know I, I do think sometimes a lot of this data can help us but it can also become our worst enemy because we're just, you know, you start becoming a bit fearful to go out there and just get out of your comfort zone where you know, there's some really high level people that did it without actually using that data. You know, you hope that the people using it are using it in a very positive way. But I, I have spoken to some high level people where they're like, ah, you know what, this is what's worked for me and, and I've tried it and actually didn't help.
- [19:53]
B
Yeah, without a doubt, man. I completely agree with that. It's, there's, there's some type of like perfect balance too and it's also very dependent on the type of person. Again I feel like I'm a little bit more like free like just in general and like how I live my life. So it's, it's definitely very helpful for me. Like I don't like to like dive in and see that. Like I feel that I'm beat up and I'm like, hey, I can get out there again today and figure it out. So I don't need to be like, hey, like, you don't need to train today because. Because, like, all these, like, markers are. Markers are off. But again, I think it's. I think it's helpful for definitely, like, a group of people, but I don't think it's for everybody.
- [20:28]
A
You know, there's this. I was watching the Rafael Nadal documentary. I don't know if you've seen that yet. I'm actually a couple episodes in right now. And I think it was his uncle was his coach and was talking about. There was a lot of things that he did where you're like, wow, this is just barbaric. Like, he wasn't letting Rafael drink water for the first hour. And. But the. But his uncle was like, you know what? Like, you can, you know, get pissed at me for that or say whatever. I had to teach him how to be mentally tough and I had to teach him how to go out there and push. And I think a lot of that magic for someone like you or someone like me wasn't about waking up and reading the data and saying, well, I'm not going to do this. According to the data, it was waking up and feeling like crap and saying, you know, I'm going to do it anyway. I think that bought that, that discipline, that set, that mental toughness.
- [21:12]
B
Yeah, without a doubt, man. It. It really does. And also, I mean, looking on the distance running side of things, too, some of the. The top athletes in the whole world, and it's been that way for a long time, are based out of, like, Kenya, Ethiopia, and they pretty much have the lowest resources ever. They, like, straight up have a pair of shoes, maybe not even a pair of shoes, and they're able to compete at such a high level.
- [21:33]
A
Right?
- [21:34]
B
I love it.
- [21:35]
A
I love. Well, David, let everyone know, where can they find you?
- [21:38]
B
So you can find me on TikTok, you can find me on Instagram, which is my, my main platform. And yeah, you can find me kicking around New York City and then Miami streets and different run clubs. So come out, start to shake the legs off and have some fun running.
- [21:51]
A
Yeah, dude, you gotta come back here. We have to do another run up at the. Up at Comstadt. And you know what, guys? For those of you listening, those of you listening, you can go to my YouTube page. There was a great video of Kilgore and I running New York City. It was just epic. I gotta go watch it because it puts a smile on my face every day, every time. David, I love you, man. Thank you.
- [22:09]
B
Thanks brother. See ya.
- [22:10]
A
All right, man.
- [22:16]
B
The views, information or opinions expressed in the series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Chip and Joanna Gaines by Nail Audio, nor Magnolia.