← Stronger with Don Saladino
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Hey everyone and welcome to Stronger. On today's episode, I had on Dr. Pat Davidson, a very good friend of mine, aka Dr. Meathead. Pat has his PhD in exercise physiology. He also has multiple disciplines in strongman, MMA and bodybuilding. Pat is one of the most experienced coaches out there when it comes down to training hard. It's something that's been in his DNA for a very long time. So we get into the science on repetitions, training to failure, variability. You know, how, how often do you need to be switching up exercises, routines? And let me add, this is for anyone at any training level because we also discuss how a very high intensity approach might work for someone trying to optimize, but also how scaling back a bit and running through a workout with intention can be highly beneficial as well. So I really geeked out during this episode. I had an absolute great time with him and I think our discussion was amaz. You guys are going to enjoy it. Let's go. The Stronger podcast wouldn't be possible if it weren't for our incredible sponsors. And today I want to give a special shout out to Timeline. Their Mito Pure supplement has been the biggest addition into my nutritional regimen in, in the last five years. Your mitochondria works better. Everything works better. That is the power plant that feeds your body. In reference to muscle and aging, maintaining muscle gets harder with age. I'm 48 now. It's my number one focus is maintaining actually to be truthful, building muscle and still continuing to move well. But cellular energy plays a major role in strength and function. So Every morning I take four Mito Pure gummies and it actually tastes like a bit of a treat, which is why I like leaning towards the the gummies more. It just, they're just fun to eat. Support your cells and how you age with might appear gummies. From Timeline, visit timeline.com/stronger to get 20% off your might appear gummies. That's T I M E l I n e.com/s t r O N G E R Guys, thanks. I feel like every time I'm saying this, like this is a special episode for me because the people I'm bringing on are special to me. Right. And you and I have a lot of history. I mean, we've known each other well over 10 years now. I think we've both seen each other go through some serious evolutions in our life. Good, bad. So I think when you kind of go through war with someone like that and you see them evolve for the better. Yeah, I think that's something that you almost become a fan of that person. Pat Davidson, everyone. He's a PhD, has a PhD in exercise physiology. But you wear a lot of hats. I think what's impressive about you is if you asked me the top, I'll be modest on this one. I said top one, top three. Let's just say it, like top three. Best people in the industry that I know who are going to combine the science with the actual application. You're like one, if not two. And I think that's a massive compliment because I think we, I think. Not saying I'm anything special, but I'm saying it's a massive compliment because I've been in the industry almost 30 years now and I know everyone. And what frustrates me in the industry is that it's, it has become a massive regurgitation of science. Suddenly you have the 25 year old there who's injecting themselves with something and they are, they've got a good physique and they're just citing research and they sound smart. And I'm like, but you're not old enough to have actually applied this stuff and made those mistakes or have done a program for a year and turn around and said, you know what, this is working for me early now. It's not. That's kind of where I want to go with this episode. Episode today. So there's, there's so much to, to start with, giving some of your background here. So you served as a professor of exercise science, a consultant, a traveling lecturer, and you've competed in multiple Disciplines including strongman, MMA and now bodybuilding.
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Yep.
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So seven years ago you were like this gorilla. This, like this, this ball of like. Well, I'm not gonna say that you had a lot of muscle, but you were this gorilla that. It was almost abnormal on how well you moved, because I remember you coming in to drive and you were like, you were twice as wide as you are now. And yeah, the body composition isn't where it is now. And everyone, let me, let me add by saying that he's about to get into his cutting phase.
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Yeah.
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So in the next week, you were about to cut. And I can guarantee you in seven, eight weeks, he will be leaner than I am.
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It'll be, it'll be pretty gnarly. Yeah.
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So. So talk to me about your, your journey. I mean, even, even where you have the nickname Dr. Meathead. Talk to us a little bit about your background and I think setting the table there. And then I've got a bunch of questions I want to jump into.
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You know, I wanted to be Captain Dr. Meathead.
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Yeah.
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You know, like, I always wanted to be that, but I wanted to be the pro athlete. And I remember when I figured out that I was actually better at being a nerd than an athlete.
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Right.
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How disappointed I was in some ways, you know.
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Yeah. But, you know, I think it steers us all in a direction. Right? Oh, yeah. Because it also, it allowed you to become world in one area. Right. And that's what. So for me to, to open this conversation up with, there are not too many people, there's very few that I know that, that are going to come in and take the science, but then, you know, take that into consideration and then go in and attack it in a way that if you want to put muscle on. Sorry, like, that's just the way it's got to be done.
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Just, you know, you see so many examples of different ways to get the job done, but the common denominator is it's all hard asses that work hard.
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100. You know, like the other day I, I saw an interesting. It was, it was an interesting post that popped up. The Australian strength coach, you know, Sebastian Orb. I mean, great, great powerlifting coach. He was talking about high intensity training or volume training. And it was interesting because he turned around and he showed. I like how he broke it down. He showed Dorian Yates, arguably one of the greatest bodybuilders of all time, and easily, you know, and Dorian was blood and guts. That was kind of the way that I grew up training. That's what's like, in my DNA. I like going into sets and being frightened and like, oh, my God, like, this has to happen. And putting thoughts in your head to drive. It sounds a little crazy, but it's just. It's part of who you are. And then he goes, well, that's a great way to put muscle on. Then he shows Jay Cutler, and Jay Cutler's like, no, I don't think going to failure is right. He goes, that's also a great way of looking at it. And it was so. It was, I think, eye opening to many people. That one worked for. And for those who don't know, Jay Cutler, you know, four time Mr. Olympian, five time Mr. Olympian, I think he was six, four, five, four.
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But I mean, he's also battling Ronnie
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Coleman, like, which Ronnie won eight times. So Ronnie's not on stage. Maybe Jay wins 10. I don't. I don't know. So I think you're looking at these two bodybuilders that are both exceptional, world class, arguably the greatest of all time. Completely different thought process. And I think nowadays everyone is taking too much ownership over one method. Push, pull legs is the way to go. Body part training, stupid. You don't want to train to failure. That's dumb. Not training to failure is dumb. And it's just this like, oh, my God.
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Yep. So the way I always talk about this is everybody's heard that all roads lead to Rome.
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Yeah.
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Okay. Rome is where you're jacked.
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Right.
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Okay. And there's lots of roads that get there. But I guarantee back in the day, there were some really shitty roads that you could take and still get to Rome. Like, you can get there, but why would you take that one? Yeah, and. But it might also be for the kind of way that you're traveling. You know, maybe you're. You've got multiple horses pulling a cart, and that's leading to, like, one kind of road that's really beneficial for you to get to Rome for versus somebody else traveling light on foot with a, with a sack or something like that. And they're taking a different road that's really great for them to get to Rome. The point is that there's probably more common kinds of people and, like, a certain road is the best one for that group to take. And then there's like another demographic that fits a slightly different bill and they're taking this kind of road. Like, there's probably much more common roads for. For certain people to take. And then there's like a really divergent, weird road that, like, Some real weirdos take. But like, you know, there are different ways to get the job done. And for muscle growth in particular, there's a lot of roads to get to Rome. That being said, there's probably a couple that are predictably the ones that don't destroy your, you know, caravan as you're trying to make your way there. And that's the one I want. I want the one where I get there pretty much unscathed. Okay, Right. No one's getting there without some cost of doing business, as you like to say. But I want the least cost of doing business. I get there with a couple blisters on my feet and, you know, it's manageable.
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What I love, when you, when you dive into your training or what's working for you now, it is not this mishmash of stuff. You're not trying to be a million things. You, you structure things intelligently and you structure it in phases. So I know there's times during the year where you might back, back off the hypertrophy work, even though it's a massive focus for you and you're on the track sprinting, which actually argue creating hypertrophy in the legs. Yeah, I would say yes. But you also understand that this is enhancing performance to where when you come back into that training block to really put your foot on the gas, your body's moving better. And I think that's what's lost in bodybuilding. I think it's too much of a one size fits all. We're going to run in this direction all the time. And when I speak to world class bodybuilders at Bev's, a lot of times the first thing when I ask them, how are you doing? They're like, great, no injuries. And I'm like, wow, that's the first thing you're coming at me with, really, like, like, all right, well, I love the pendulum squat, but you're not doing all these other things right now because you can't. Why can't you? Right, right. Talk to me about that in your approach a bit and how throughout the years that might have even, you know, that has evolved.
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Well, number one, I, I think that, you know, you, you kind of. Bodybuilding is a subjective, evaluated sport. Okay. And there are some, like, very specific things that judges are looking for. You know, they eat classically here, symmetry and, you know, balance and conditioning and muscularity, but that doesn't really tell you, like, and then you hear, oh, it's all genetics. But, like, what are the genetics? Like, that's that's actually a good question. Like, sure. You hear that? So the main. The main great genetic pieces are that you're really wide at the level of the clavicles and really narrow at the level of the pelvis. People talk about, like, shrinking their waist. I'm like, do you understand that's actually your pelvis that we're talking about? And, like, well, you can change your pelvic bones.
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Not really.
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It doesn't. It's not a thing. So if. If you're just genetically gifted, where you have a skeleton with wide clavicles and a narrow pelvis, like, congratulations, that's.
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You're already. You're already ahead. You're already five yards down the. Down the field.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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And then it comes down to sort of like, length of limbs or segments. Okay, so. And. And generally speaking, when you talk about the best body parts of all time, like Lee Priest, best arms of all time, what is it that makes his arms the best of all time? Well, he's got a short humerus, number one. But then the muscle attachment is also a short tendon. So the muscle takes up the whole real estate of the humerus versus, like, you know, guys with bad calves. The tendon takes up most of the real estate, and it's just a tiny little muscle versus guys with great calves. It's a long calf muscle and a short tendon. So it's always, you know, great genetics for aesthetics is most of the real estate of the segment is made up by muscle, and very little is made up by connective tissue. And then third is the shape of the muscle. And, like, they always talk about a round muscle belly. And like, Phil Heath is kind of the epitome of round muscle bellies. Like, Phil Heath didn't have the wide clavicles.
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No.
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Okay. He was kind of narrow up top, but he overwhelmed that with roundness of delts and pecs.
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Ronnie just. Ronnie just had everything.
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Ronnie had everything.
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Yeah, he was everything. In my eyes, might have been the most complete elite, I think.
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Yes, it's. Yeah, it's. It's game over.
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If I had a great number one. Sorry, Arnold. I. I think Arnold had with the most beautiful physique. Like, that's the physique we probably more. Maybe I wanted if they stood next
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to each other, I wouldn't be comparison.
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Yeah.
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It's not fair. Arnold will be in a different division
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now, but drugs were different, training was different, nutrition was different. Yeah.
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They didn't want legs in Arnold's era.
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Yeah.
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You know, like, what they were looking what the judges and the judge. What the judges are looking for changes the look over time.
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Right.
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You know, so it's. It's kind of like. Like, number one with esthetic training is you got to actually be pretty objective and honest about what you're bringing to the table genetically. Like, for me, I'm not wide in the clavicles. Like, my clavicles and pelvis are pretty similar in terms of width, so I'm fighting an uphill battle from that front. All right. I don't have the round muscle bellies that some other people do. Okay.
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Like, it's got. It's. I mean, it's getting there, but, like, getting. It's got. From your last show that I was at, I was. I was shocked. And the before after, you did the other day, you threw a before after up. I was like, wow. I mean, that was significant.
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Yeah. Well, all things, you know, you can. Just Adding muscle tissue causes dramatic changes in the way things look. You know, but there's always, like, what's the ceiling? What's the cap of these things? And, like, I'm not saying mine is horrifically bad, but, like, when you're like. Because I have short segments at most places, and I have short tendons in most places, which is good, you know? But where I'm going with this in terms of varying training is I think a lot of guys with my build, where they're shorter and more boxy, I think that, like, if you actually get out and do some more athletic things, your legs look better.
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Yeah.
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Otherwise, your legs look like square blocks.
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Right.
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And I. I've noticed, for me, that if I get out and do track work, my legs don't look as square. They actually start to form a better aesthetic shape. Right. And I don't have an answer for that scientifically other than, like, okay, that's a better look.
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And look at. And look at sprinters. I mean, it's pretty fascinating. We talk about Derek Hansen now, and, you know, I think, you know, getting to the simplicity of coaching. I mean, Derek's a pretty. One of the more simple people that I've met when it comes to program design. He's just like, well, just do this
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initially, and then you start asking him more questions, and you realize, oh, my God.
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Yeah, this guy's like. He's so brilliant.
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Yeah.
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But he also. I love. I love his delivery. So simple.
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And I think that I'm like that with clients now. You know what I mean? Like, they start asking me really hard questions, and I'm like, listen, you Just gotta do this. You gotta just, right, get in and like, let's, let's just meet three times a week. The. What's your, what's the answer to your question? It's like, just come in three times a week.
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Yeah.
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You know, like, let's. Why are we talking about this? Yeah, you know, but if, if we get there, then we can talk about this stuff. But like time and place, time and place. What's the right level of information for the individual and the, the sequence and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I think, you know, with, with talking about, you know, in this, it doves tails together pretty nicely. Most people are looking for complexity when they don't need it and they're looking for more when oftentimes the answer is less like, great. To me, I always talk about Derek as being the great gardener of the strength and conditioning field.
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Right.
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And the garden that he builds is most oftentimes getting rid of things that don't belong. It's like he pulls the weeds. It gives a nice, simple, elegant, clean lines thing that you have to behold now. And it's perfect.
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When I look at programming now, I want simple, like, I want those big lifts that I can get really strong with and I want, you know, those isolation movements that I can push myself to the limit with. And then it's like, all right, how am I, I don't like using the word warm up, but how do I maybe start with some practice that's allowing myself to train on some different planes to where my body just feels good. But you know, the goal for me has always performance and hypertrophy. Now when you're looking at your year, what block out of the 12 months are you dedicating to sprint work and maybe backing off the hypertrophy work opposed to like, oh, no, I'm in the. You're in the phase you're on right now. Put on as much muscle as possible.
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So I would say, you know, I, I and look, Derek comes from the Charlie Francis lineage. And Charlie Francis's work is still the most influential of my program design. The best. And you know, his concept is vertical integration. And long story short, you're doing everything all the time, but it's just how much are you doing? So at all points in time, there's always some, some high speed track work for me, there's always some plyometric stuff for me, there's always, you know, lifting that's a little bit more strength and then there's lifting that's, you know, more higher reps. So the question is, how much of the track work am I doing? And it's actually more of like the logistical bottlenecks of certain things that. That actually make it flow the way. And the one for me is body weight. The heavier I am, the less track work I can do.
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Yeah.
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Like, I can't handle the conditioning of it. I can't handle the pounding of it. My feet, my shins, my. Just too much.
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B
Your range, what's your range throughout a year, from 4 max weight to your To. To. To the day of the show, body weight wise? Yeah.
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250 down to 200, pretty much.
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Incredible.
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You know.
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Incredible. And I was wondering, did you do a Dexa on your last show when you.
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I did, but, you know, I started to notice for a, you know, ped using bodybuilder.
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B
Yeah.
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It's kind of like the way that it evaluates water throws the measurement off to the point where you're like, it doesn't mean anything.
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Yeah, yeah.
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You know, like when you're close to contest and you're pretty dry, it shows you being fatter versus, like when you're kind of puffy and full of water, it shows you being leaner. And it's just because I find they're.
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I find they're off. You know, I find they're. Sometimes they're good gauges for the general public, but I think they get a little too.
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Where it's helpful is the total amount of fat. That's what I kind of found out because when I'm not dieting down my. I'm just so full of water. You know what I mean? The muscles are just so. There's so much glycogen. There's so much water in there. I feel like a water bag, you know, and that's. It's hard. That like, kind of feels almost like you're choking under your tissue or something. But it would show me being lean. Okay. But then if I just look at total fat mass, that's pretty accurate. And I got a pretty good gauge of like, okay, upper end, lower end. And as soon as I'm going over 25 pounds of total fat on my body, like, okay, that's too fat. And then pre contest, like right around contest, somewhere around £12 is where it's just like, okay, this is diced.
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B
Yeah. You're like striations in your glutes. And you know, there's. There, there. There's nothing on your lower back. It's like that's where. That's. That's when you can really?
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See, the visuals are more telling than the DEXA at that point, and that's all you're evaluated on in bodybuilding anyways, so who gives a crap in some ways, but knowing when the body fat was too high, just. Just that number alone was the. The value point.
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B
Guys, a stronger podcast would not be possible if it weren't for our incredible sponsors. And today I'd like to thank Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth has been a sponsor of ours for a while, and I could tell you right now, Mother's Day is rolling around and a little hack for you trying to shop for your mothers. I purchased my mom the comforter and bed sheets last Christmas, and it was an absolute hit. She has been sleeping on them constantly, and she is absolutely in love with it. So now Cozy Earth has a bathrobe and slippers, which I have already purchased for my mom for Mother's Day, and she don't tell her, and she's gonna absolutely love it. So I highly recommend everyone checking it out. It's an absolutely perfect Mother's Day gift. And this is such an easy ad for me right now because I did get this from my mom. So I think you guys will like it also. So they're running some really interesting promos here. So let this Mother's Day be a reminder that she deserves care, too. It's mom. Of course, she does. Discover how Cozy Earth turns everyday routine into moments of softness and ease. Head to cozyearth.com and use my code Stronger. That's S T R O N G E R for an exclusive 20 off. Okay? And if you see a post purchase survey, make sure you mention that you heard about Cozy Earth from the Stronger podcast, because I want to keep working with them. They're pretty incredible. So that's the code Stronger for an exclusive 20% off. Guys, thanks. I want to thank Crisp Power. So I received a box one day and I opened them up and I saw pretzels with protein in it. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting. And I put them in the closet. Then my son started eating them. And then one day, I was interested in having something a little salty, so I turned around and I was able to choose from several different kinds of pretzels that are proteinified. All right? Flavors include Cheddar Cinnamon crunch. Yes. Flaming Crunch, and everything. Which I haven't had the cheddar yet, but those three. Yes. Love them. We had an episode once with Dr. Gabriel Line, Dr. Lane Norton, and Dr. Donald Layman, and we talked about Protein Ification, and they were all for it. If you go for a healthier option that's tasty, especially for your kids that are going to always eat it, I highly recommend it. So it's been a hit in our household. Chris Power is focused on high protein, high fiber, low carb, plant based snacks that actually, and they do, they taste great. So if you love salty snacks but hate sacrifices your goal, give it a try. I recommend it. I'd rather you have that than normal chips and I think there's a lot of benefit to it. These protein pretzels pack up to 28 grams of protein. That's 1.75 ounces per bag and just six net carbs. All right, head to Chris power.com and use the code stronger for 10% off at checkout. That's crisp. Power.com c r I s p p o w e r dot com for high protein crunch you can feel good about. Guys, thanks for joining. So for the general public out there, and I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I love how you said I'm trying to simplify things. What really makes people stronger beyond these hype and trends? It's like program focus. Is it more just focusing on the execution of the movements and focusing more on that and then in time driving intensity? Like what advice are you giving to people?
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A
You know, it's just all mindset development really is, you know, and the fastest and easiest way to create that is just throw the person in with other people that are savages.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay. That takes care of it right away. You know, as long as they're pulled in and held under the wing and told to shut up and do the job.
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B
Yeah.
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A
They just fall in line. Okay. When it's one on one, it's harder. Like personal training is a hard job when you are working with wealthy or prominent people that are not tough.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay. Because you're like, you gotta give them some tough love. But also recognize that this person is not used to not being the alpha in every situation.
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B
Right.
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A
You know, how do you walk that tightrope of like, listen, you're not doing a good job right now.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You're not trying hard.
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B
Right.
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Everything you want is not going to happen because the approach, you can't buy this. Yeah. Your approach is not cutting it right. Okay. And I've learned to be tougher. But you can't be too tough because you never see them again.
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B
Yeah. There is, there is a fine line now with some of those high profile people that you're talking about. In my experience, that's where as the sets get heavier, more challenging, you might start seeing the depth begin to shallow out.
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A
Yep.
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B
And I found myself early in my career grabbing them, being like, you can handle depth. I saw you do it with a lighter weight. This is about fear right now. And however you tried to deliver it, they weren't getting it. And that's when I find the approaches should change. Now, maybe we have to scale back on intensity. Maybe now we have to increase volume a bit to create that hypertrophic response. Rather than saying, well, Dorian said, go one to two sets, and every rep from six on, they're just getting shallower and shallower. It's like, all right, I'm better off keeping people to where they can hit depth, continuing to practice that, and hopefully that gets ingrained in their head, and then over time, it takes time retraining their brain.
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A
I feel like equipment that gives feedback is the greatest tool.
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B
Talk to me about that.
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A
Okay. One can be as simple as a machine. Like, I love the hack squat and the leg press for personal training. Okay. Like, to me, those are like God's gift to personal training. But, like, okay, you have to hit the bottom of the hack squat every. If it doesn't hit, it's not a rep, and you have to get 10 reps. I'll assist you if you can't do it yourself. We're getting 10, but it does not count unless you hit that bottom. And I need to hear it, and you need to hear it. And when you. When you. When you hold a firm. To me, it's. Personal training is parenting.
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B
Yep.
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It's just parenting. Like, I need to be a good parent the same way I am to my kids.
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B
Right?
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Okay. So the line is the line. Every time I am cut and dry here, I'll be nice to you, but when it comes to the way we do things, it's either black or it's white. And feedback creates very black or white situations. It either bangs on the bottom of the hack squat or it doesn't. And if it doesn't, it doesn't count. So you could be here all day putting in work, and we'll be here all day.
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B
Yeah.
- [27:22]
A
So that's one form of feedback. The other one is tech. Okay. When you have technology and it puts a screen up there and it tells you things like meters per second.
- [27:32]
B
Yeah.
- [27:33]
A
People learn that really quick. Okay. It's like you're squatting, you have a screen, and it's like that rep was, you know, 1.07 meters a second. That's fast.
- [27:42]
B
Yeah.
- [27:42]
A
Okay. That one's even faster. Oh, my God. You figured it out. If you push harder, it goes faster, and you're still going fast. You're not close to the end of the set. And then all of a sudden you get them to work hard, and it, like, hits, like, 0.6.
- [27:55]
B
Yeah.
- [27:55]
A
And they're like. It's like, that is the way that it should feel, but it won't feel that way until the effort reaches that point.
- [28:05]
B
Yeah.
- [28:06]
A
And then all of a sudden, like, if we're not using something that has that tech, I can remind them, like, hey, remember the meters? A second thing.
- [28:12]
B
It's always that last few reps.
- [28:14]
A
Right.
- [28:15]
B
What's ironic about it is I feel like people are looking at sets and reps and they're just trying to rush to get to the number.
- [28:22]
A
Yeah.
- [28:23]
B
I'm like, no, like, you got. You have to realize that, like, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Like, this is the. This is, like, this is the confetti. Like, this is what we're looking for, and this is what we're trying to create. The question is, is can you create it one rep at a time? And can you get to that point where you're playing a tug of war, Right. With your own mind and emotions? And it really. When it comes to training for aesthetics, body composition training, that's what people are
- [28:51]
A
coming to you for.
- [28:52]
B
That's what you got to do.
- [28:53]
A
Even if they say they're not coming to you for that, I don't believe them. With general population people, I don't. Right. I really don't. Like, I'm like, so you're telling me you don't want to look better?
- [29:03]
B
Yeah, I've had people say that to me. Like, I'm just. I don't care about an ab. I'm like, of course you're lying.
- [29:10]
A
Yeah.
- [29:10]
B
I'll say to them. I go, you're full of. Because if I told you right now, I could snap my fingers and give you the physique that you. Yeah. Yes, you would. You would be happy. And they're like, I'm like, don't. Don't come in here now. And let's just. Let's just be honest with each other right now. All right? You're. You're tired, you're upset about your approach in the past, and you're a bit discouraged. That's why you and I are speaking.
- [29:29]
A
Yeah. And I find for me, I tell them as soon as I can, by the way. Like, you know, I'm. I use drugs to look the way that I do. I don't care how you feel about that.
- [29:40]
B
You have no idea how much I appreciate and respect that honesty.
- [29:44]
A
Yeah.
- [29:45]
B
Because so many people, I can't handle the whole. I'm natural. And I'm like, well, are you? Or is it, Are you just natural for the last three weeks? Like, like that's another thing. Well, I'm not on anything right now. I'm like, well, what about the last seven years? Like, I'm like, what do you mean? I get it. I don't think anyone's better or worse for it. It's a decision. Yeah, it's a decision. What are you training for?
- [30:06]
A
I want to do this.
- [30:07]
B
You're not going to get to your level. Let me be very clear here. I'm going to be very clear. And some people. You are not going to get to this level. I can physically, I will physically not be able to get to that level and compete next to him by doing it naturally.
- [30:22]
A
I'm 5 foot 6 and I weigh 230 pounds right now.
- [30:25]
B
Right.
- [30:26]
A
Pretty lean.
- [30:27]
B
Yeah.
- [30:27]
A
Okay. Quad veins all through the whole thing.
- [30:29]
B
Yeah.
- [30:30]
A
You know, that's not normal. It's not, it's not normal.
- [30:36]
B
It's. I think, I think you're, it's, it's incredible to see your, your evolution and to see how it's not. But I also don't want to devalue something. You don't go take drugs and expect to look or perform the way you perform. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't work that way.
- [30:51]
A
In check, foods in check, sleeps in check, trainings in check. You know, I manage everything around it, with it, like in conjunction with it. You just have one arrow pointing in a direction.
- [31:02]
B
Yes.
- [31:03]
A
Nothing happens in your life. Okay. You start getting 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, all pointing in the same direction with. When those points start to converge in a direction now, your life goes in
- [31:14]
B
a direction I've never seen. When you, when people talk about a sport and discipline, it doesn't exist. When it comes down to dedication and discipline, that a bodybuilder. And this is a strong statement. Think about what I'm saying here. You prepped last year, I think for 16 weeks. Was it longer?
- [31:31]
A
Like probably 20, 20.
- [31:33]
B
Now let me explain. When you do a 20 week prep, you said something to me. You were like, by week 16, I was talking, I think was 16 was in my head because that's my lucky number. And you're. But by week 16, I asked you how you feeling? You're like, you know, this morning I was I feel like I'm starting to lose my mind a little bit.
- [31:47]
A
Yeah.
- [31:47]
B
Because I, I'll never.
- [31:48]
A
For.
- [31:48]
B
I'll never forget this. You. You said, I'm dicing vegetables at the same time of the day that I've been dicing vegetables for the last 16 weeks. So imagine having the exact same meal at the exact same time every day for 20 weeks. Imagine that to the minute, doing the exact same thing. And you said, I'm starting to go a little crazy. And people. And I've done preps for six, seven, five, six weeks, maybe seven weeks, eight weeks in that, maybe a month and a half to two months to get prepped for a cover.
- [32:20]
A
Yeah.
- [32:21]
B
And that's hard.
- [32:22]
A
Yeah.
- [32:23]
B
But, but you're almost. You're more than doubling in that now. And to have that level of consistency, I put. Very few people on the planet would be able to elect themselves, dedicate themselves to going in with that approach.
- [32:37]
A
It's hard. You know, specifically, they, you know, in bodybuilding, they always don't trust your prep brain. You know what I mean? So I was having like this weird fantasy. Like, I, I was convinced that I needed to buy a huge pickup truck and get a lot of wood and build a wood shop and start constructing things, you know, like, I don't know, a birdhouse or something. You know, I mean, I've never.
- [33:04]
B
Sounds nice.
- [33:05]
A
I've never had. I'm like the least handy person that you'll ever meet in your entire life. But, like, it. My mind was made up that I need to buy a place out in the woods and I'm going to get a, like a Dodge Ram and I'm going to get a lot of wood and I'm going to carve it and I'm going to like, build things. Like I letterbot. I don't know. I don't know what. But it was like I was on, you know, the car show, auto trader or whatever that, you know, I'm looking at trucks, I'm pricing them, I'm like, finding dealerships. I'm like, I'm in on this. Okay? And, you know, but I didn't have enough time to actually go through it with prime anyways. Your fantasize competed literally a week after. I'm like, what was I thinking? I don't want to do that at all. What. What was it? What am I, what am I talking about? What am I doing? What am I doing here? Oh, my God. You know, so it's just like, you, you really don't know where it's gonna Go. And I remember. I remember telling you, like, you know, the week of the second show, you know, I do the crazy depletion stuff. Like, it was a. It was a Tuesday morning. I'm walking to the grocery store. I brought the stroller with me because I didn't trust my own balance that morning. And, you know, I didn't need it, but I was like, okay, I better have this. Just.
- [34:22]
B
Yes.
- [34:23]
A
And my. I. I've never felt this messed up in my entire life.
- [34:27]
B
Yeah.
- [34:28]
A
Okay. Like, the color started to change. The ground started to get, like, really
- [34:32]
B
weird and almost, like, psychedelic in a way.
- [34:34]
A
Very, very much so. And I remember, like, being like, I had to stop and, like, lean against the fence, and I was like, this is not right, and this is hilarious. I was like, I really can't afford to fall over and have to go to the hospital. I got it. I got to eat. I got to train. I got to do this stuff. I can't. I don't have time for. For that. Okay. And so I gave myself a pep talk. I was like, people have had it way worse, okay? Like, you're not a slave. You're not out, like, trying to build the pyramids in Egypt. You're not. Like, there's so much worse stuff that's happened to humans. And it was like, okay, I got this. Yeah, that might have lasted another 40 seconds. And then I was like, oh, my God, this is really crazy. Anyways, I did get through it, but, like, that's the worst I've ever felt in my life, you know? Like, and that. It just showed me, like, you can bring yourself voluntarily. Like, I voluntarily brought myself to this level of suffering. And I don't know if I'm more proud of anything than that.
- [35:34]
B
Right. I did that in 2014. I remember I was. I was prepping for. It was like, a cover, and it was. It was probably the first depletion I've ever done. And I remember walking to train a client. This is when I had drive open, but I still had this one client up on 57th Street. And I remember getting to 57th and Lex, and there was a sign, and I remember having to stop and hold on to the sign. I was so dizzy, and I was just so, like, Was not even, like, dizzy. It was almost like, you know what I'm talking about? And I remember just stopping, being like, oh, my God. Like, I don't know if I can walk right. And I don't know how much time I spent on. It could have been five minutes. It could have been 15 minutes, I have no idea. Finally, I got it together and went in there. And I remember just standing there during the session, he's like, are you all right? I'm like, you know, I'm not feeling 100%. I'm not sick.
- [36:22]
A
Yeah.
- [36:23]
B
I told him what I was going through. He's like, all right. And he was kind of a little out of it also, so we were able to kind of both fudge.
- [36:27]
A
Well, you don't have time for someone to be like, oh, my God.
- [36:29]
B
It's like, I don't want sympathy. Like, leave me alone. Like, this is like, I chose this. This isn't something. Like, this is not. Like, I'm not in the hospital. I'm not hooked up to iv, and I'm not like, this is voluntary. But again, looking back on that now, that gave me answers and it gave me a respect for something that I feel like a lot of people can't speak about. And that's. I want to pivot right right now. When we spoke about science and gym culture. When I say gym culture, I mean you and I meeting up at Vitaly's place and literally training till our eyeballs pop out.
- [36:59]
A
Right. I found out I had the flu that day.
- [37:03]
B
Did you?
- [37:03]
A
Yeah, that was like, I, you know, like. Because later on I was just like,
- [37:07]
B
would you not have gone? Of course.
- [37:08]
A
Of course I'm still going to go.
- [37:10]
B
So.
- [37:10]
A
Yeah. But it helped explain at least the violence of the vomiting.
- [37:14]
B
Yeah, but it's, it's. It's. I don't. I. Come on, you. And I've been there before. Where does. Where's the science piece? Because again, and I opened our podcast with this podcast with. It becomes an annoyance when everyone just wants to regurgitate.
- [37:28]
A
Yeah.
- [37:29]
B
You take that and then you take the old school guy who's going like, Tom Haviland or like, you see these social media posts of guys going in jailhouse strong and they're just picking up heavy stuff. And when I watch that, I'm like, yes. So where does. Where do these need to meet? And where is there a lot of conflict do you find with one or the other?
- [37:50]
A
I think the science is pretty good. I think that it's like people that claim to be science based, you just usually aren't, you know, like, yeah, especially like these low volume zealots and like the guys that are doing weird stuff with equipment. Like, you see the guys training lats and like, they're just like taking their hands out, putting, like weird straps on.
- [38:11]
B
Yeah.
- [38:12]
A
It wasn't like, yeah, Like a really weird looking stupid thing. And it's like, it just looks idiotic. And it's like, there's no science telling you to do that. Right. Okay. Like, that's ridiculous.
- [38:24]
B
That's clickbait.
- [38:25]
A
Yeah. Like, this is just idiotic. But, you know, the science at the very least is sort of for muscle growth in support of a lot of volume. You know, like the meta analysis kind of show, like, more volume leads to more growth. So I'm always.
- [38:41]
B
But you're not just frivolously throwing on volume. That's why I don't want people to get confused. When we went and we trained, I think we did five movements.
- [38:48]
A
Yep.
- [38:48]
B
And we hit maybe two to three working sets of movement.
- [38:52]
A
Yeah.
- [38:52]
B
But prepping to get to those movements and then the intensity at which those movements were attacked, that's where I think the disconnection is. I think, oh, Pat did three sets of eight here. I'm like, yeah, but you didn't really look at the sets working up to that. Right. You didn't really look at where Pat was in a reps in reserve, by the way. It was zero.
- [39:13]
A
Zero.
- [39:13]
B
Yeah, zero. Like you didn't have any reps in reserve. And most people, I think, are not understanding what reps in reserve mean. If you're at two RIR reps in reserve on a squat, man, that is real. Yeah, that is real. That's not failure. That is real. And a lot of people say, well, I trained there. I'm like, no, you don't.
- [39:30]
A
Right. So I mean, those are science concepts. You know what I mean? Like what you're talking about. Like, it's got to be pretty close to failure for it to do anything. And you got to do enough of those exposures. And, you know, another part of science is sort of showing, like, if you rush the workout, it's not going to be effective for muscle growth, you know, so the problem I, I have, or the problem that a lot of people have is they're expecting the biological time scales to converge with what they want their life's time scales to be in the modern world. Like, I want to get the best workout possible for muscle growth in an hour, and I want to do it three times a week. And it's like, okay, well, that might not be realistic. If, you know, if you really try hard on a set of legs or back or something like that, you know, how much rest do you need to be able to recreate the same output? All right, like, hey, I could get back in there, let's say I do a hard like a 10 rep max set on the hack squat. I can get back in there two minutes later. What am I going to get? Three reps, right?
- [40:45]
B
Talk about how much rest are you taking? Tell. Tell everyone.
- [40:48]
A
For legs, I mean, you know, it's. It's six minutes minimum. Yeah, yeah, minimum. You know, I'm first. First couple minutes are just like trying to reorganize my brain, you know, feel like I'm not dying. And then it's like, still takes a while to get back to where it's like, you know, we're really talking seven, eight minutes.
- [41:09]
B
They're misinterpreting what the focus should be when they go in there. They're putting heart rate mon on and I'm like, why are you measuring a heart rate during your lifting sets? I'll measure a heart rate when I'm doing like four by fours or I'll measure heart rate when I'm doing zone two or like those things. But when I'm going into a lifting set, my objective is to hit a set very simple. Whether you are a male or female with the highest level of quality, the highest level of intensity. If you do those things and you're using your rep number as, as a gauge to get you into a range, it's not. Let's stop at 10 if we have 12. Yeah. A 10 is me saying, we have to live around this weight to get around that number. And some days you might be stronger, you might be weaker. And if you do that, you are going to need rest.
- [41:58]
A
Yeah.
- [41:58]
B
You're not going to be able to repeat in 30 seconds. And when someone turns to me and they say, well, I don't need that much rest. What is that telling you?
- [42:06]
A
Tells me that you're a Prius on a drag strip.
- [42:12]
B
You're not working hard enough.
- [42:14]
A
You're just. But also it might. This might not be for you.
- [42:17]
B
Exactly.
- [42:18]
A
Okay. Like this vehicle's never gonna go fast.
- [42:21]
B
Yep.
- [42:22]
A
All right. Like you've send a drag car down a drag strip for a quarter mile, you gotta like put it in the garage. They gotta put it back together again before it could go again. You know, it needs new tires. And you send a Prius down a quarter mile, when can it go again?
- [42:37]
B
Now. Well, I also want to be clear, guys, we are speaking about optimizing, like when we're talking about going in and trying to push the limits. This is someone who's saying, I want to optimize and I want to gain as much muscle as possible.
- [42:50]
A
I'm being Realistic, though. Like, I've worked with enough people and, like, you know, maybe they're starting to lift weights in their 40s or something like that. They just don't have a lot of tissue. And it's like, they didn't play sports as a kid. A lot of those things. And I'm like, okay, is your goal really to build as much muscle as possible? Like, let's be honest about this. Like. Like, what are you really here for?
- [43:15]
B
Right.
- [43:15]
A
You know, because some of these things are going to be hard. Like, if. If you played sports as a kid, you were fairly explosive. Like, we got a pretty good ceiling to work through.
- [43:26]
B
Right.
- [43:26]
A
And that's a reasonable goal. Okay. I think everybody can improve their cardiorespiratory fitness pretty well.
- [43:32]
B
Yeah.
- [43:33]
A
All right. And I want you to chase something that's going to give you continuous dopamine hits. All right. And, you know, I use that Prius thing. Like, that's got a good aerobic system. Okay. And we could probably improve it with some tinkering and, like. Sure, we're going to. We're going to go down a good dopamine path with that. So we can do all kinds of, like, fun things to develop you there. And that might be your superpower. I want to find your superpower and attack that thing. Now, if you are strong and you're able to. To push hard enough. Because honestly, I don't. I believe people a lot of the time, like, they're giving me max effort on the hack squat, and they're ready again in a minute. I watched them. They went to failure, and they are ready again a minute. To me, my expectation for how much muscle and strength you can build is lowered. Okay. If you went on it and now you're crushed for a few minutes, I'm like, okay, my expectations now up here for you.
- [44:33]
B
Right, Right.
- [44:34]
A
You know, you're just a different kind of vehicle. So I'll probably have a different training trajectory and approach with the different people. You know, I'll be a little bit more aerobic focused and energy system focused over here. And like, yeah, we can get some body composition changes, and we will get body composition changes with that stuff. And it's a different approach over here with somebody that's got some horsepower.
- [44:58]
B
Yeah.
- [44:58]
A
You know, and so I think it's just about being pretty open to the reality of it.
- [45:05]
B
I call that, guys. I call that good coaching. That's what. That's what good coaching is. So now this doesn't have to be rapid fire, but I'm going To want to keep these last several questions kind of a little quick, you know, it doesn't have to be a long explanation. You mentioned at 40 years old just before. Which leads me to my next question. What are the biggest mistakes people over 40 make in their programming?
- [45:23]
A
Too much, too soon, too fast.
- [45:24]
B
Okay, I like that. I think he's 100. Right. Living in the days of. Well, I did this in College. I'm like, 20 years ago. Yeah.
- [45:31]
A
And no, you didn't.
- [45:31]
B
Yeah. Dude, I love you, man. Next question. How should training evolve as we age? If we want to stay strong and
- [45:39]
A
pain free, it should be the same.
- [45:41]
B
Yep.
- [45:42]
A
Okay. And there's a recent meta analysis that came out and it really threw, I don't know, Chung Lee powder in the eyes of previous statements. Like, it showed that as we age, we are not really reducing our recovery capabilities. Everybody uses that as an excuse. Oh, you just can't recover like you used to. Well, this science paper is disagreeing with you that looked at it.
- [46:06]
B
Physiologically, you think we're just doing less or.
- [46:08]
A
I think it's harder psychologically and emotionally as you get older because you got more in your life.
- [46:15]
B
Yeah.
- [46:15]
A
You got more stuff. You got to deal with people. You got to deal with responsibilities, time management, more stresses.
- [46:22]
B
More stresses than when you were in your 20s. The responsibility.
- [46:25]
A
But your physiological capabilities for recovery are not reduced from a physiological perspective.
- [46:33]
B
Right. And I also don't like the excuse of it. Let's say that wasn't. Let's say you're completely full of it right now, which I know you're not.
- [46:40]
A
Obviously.
- [46:41]
B
I think people set themselves up for that decline. They're immediate. Like, well, you're getting older. Yeah, this. And I'm like, I am. I'm going to be 49 in April. I'm trying to hit PRs.
- [46:53]
A
Yeah.
- [46:53]
B
I'm trying to get my body composition to a place it's never been. I'm trying to move better than I ever been. And you know what? A lot of times it works out. What. What puts me back are the other things that you're talking.
- [47:04]
A
Yes.
- [47:04]
B
It's the three hockey games I'm playing in a week or whatever. And then out of nowhere, I'm throwing too many great ingredients into this. I call it. The example I always give is I might have 20 ingredients I cook with during a week. Salt, pepper, cinnamon, basic stuff. They might taste great individually, but if I take them all and throw them into one batter, it's going to taste like.
- [47:25]
A
Yeah.
- [47:26]
B
And I think that's what starts happening Is that you start. I start reaching and more volume and more this, this, and this. And then. Then I'm having that problem. Next question. How much variation do people actually need?
- [47:36]
A
Way less than they think they do.
- [47:37]
B
Thank you. Explain that. Now, I want you to go into a little detail on that.
- [47:41]
A
Anytime that you have a goal in life, the more that you put your energy into other things, are you actually moving your goal or towards your goal?
- [47:49]
B
Yeah.
- [47:49]
A
Not as rapidly as you would be if you just kind of dropped off some of these other things that you're doing and thinking if you want to be great at something, you got to sacrifice other areas. It's just. That's how it is. So if you're physically. If you're saying, my goal is to, you know, run a hundred meters as fast as possible, and, oh, yeah, by the way, I love to go hang gliding on the weekends, and I love to, you know, do distance running and kayaking. I'm like, well, when do you have time to sprint?
- [48:20]
B
Yes.
- [48:21]
A
And, you know, do some resisted sprinting and lift weights.
- [48:24]
B
Yes. Oh, I.
- [48:25]
A
You know, it's not important to you, then.
- [48:27]
B
Yes, exactly.
- [48:28]
A
Well, there's a. There's a very specific menu of. Of things that you have to kind of order from to get what you want.
- [48:36]
B
I was. I was messaging with my friend Janya, who moved with her husband Ricel, over to Europe, and I. I would go as far to say as I've never seen. Maybe on one hand, I can count three women I've seen squat like her. I mean, she was pregnant with 405 on her back.
- [48:52]
A
I think I've seen videos.
- [48:53]
B
Yeah. She's blonde, attractive.
- [48:55]
A
Yep.
- [48:56]
B
Squatty. And people were tearing her apart. She had an easy pregnancy. She bounced back great. Fine. She owns that. She's.
- [49:02]
A
She's at the 14th Street. What was that?
- [49:05]
B
She might have been. Yeah. I knew her from Long Island. She was. She was this woman. Her squat. But she squats.
- [49:12]
A
Yeah.
- [49:13]
B
And she's not squatting for three weeks and then saying, all right, I'm gonna get on this BS Cybex squat here. And she owns the squat, which is why she's developed this ungodly level of strength. And I think we are so quick to deviate from specific movements, and then we're not getting good at those movements.
- [49:30]
A
I. I like to give the example of, like, okay, let's say your event is you run the mile. Okay. And you get really good at it.
- [49:37]
B
Yeah.
- [49:38]
A
And in practice, you got to run repeat miles. That's gotta suck.
- [49:42]
B
Yeah.
- [49:42]
A
Okay, let's Say the world record in the mile now is 3 minutes and 43 seconds.
- [49:47]
B
Incredible.
- [49:47]
A
Okay. If you're any good, that means you're running like a 350 mile. Okay. What does that mean for. For practice? You know what I mean? Like, well, I got to come into practice and I get like, I got to do like four repeats of like 3:55. Okay.
- [50:01]
B
I was gonna say like four minutes or whatever.
- [50:03]
A
I don't even know.
- [50:04]
B
I don't even know, you know, 4 tens. I mean, whatever.
- [50:06]
A
Like something horrific and like, I don't care if you run one of those. What does that feel like? That's got to be the most ungodly feeling in the world.
- [50:14]
B
Yes.
- [50:14]
A
Okay. But then next week you gotta do it one second faster. Like, do you really want that progressive overload?
- [50:22]
B
Yeah.
- [50:23]
A
Do you really want that kind of smoke?
- [50:25]
B
That means. Exactly.
- [50:26]
A
Because. Yeah. We could do something different. Sure, we could do something different.
- [50:30]
B
Yeah.
- [50:30]
A
But is that the best thing to get you better at this goal? Probably.
- [50:35]
B
And that's interesting. Maybe, maybe. A lot of this variability happens as things get very hard for people. They start getting into that week.
- [50:42]
A
14, 15 Variability is a deload.
- [50:45]
B
Yes, yes.
- [50:47]
A
Hard stop.
- [50:48]
B
Mic drop. Mic drop. Let's keep going. A couple more quick questions. How should coaches filter research before applying it to real people?
- [50:55]
A
Try it themselves.
- [50:57]
B
Thank you. What gym myths do you still see everywhere that make you cringe?
- [51:02]
A
Oh, God.
- [51:03]
B
I know you got to think about this.
- [51:05]
A
You know, I'm at a gym right now. VITALI Spot on 57th and Mad.
- [51:09]
B
Yes.
- [51:10]
A
And there's some incredible equipment.
- [51:12]
B
Yes, very.
- [51:13]
A
And I see people using the TRX right next to like a twenty thousand dollar machine that could do the movement so much better with quantitative feedback. And I'm like, you just went out of your way to rebuild a significantly worse exercise with a significantly worse piece of equipment than the thing that's literally right next to you.
- [51:35]
B
You could have jumped into a Bentley, but you chose to jump into a golf cart. Yeah. And go on, go down the highway. To me it makes no sense, right. To love that.
- [51:43]
A
So that's just like all over the place all the time.
- [51:46]
B
What's the worst training advice on social media right now?
- [51:49]
A
I don't know. Mine's pretty curated down to like just a few people that I'm listening to.
- [51:54]
B
Yeah.
- [51:55]
A
So I don't see.
- [51:56]
B
Doesn't have to be right right now. What's one of the things that you might have heard once you're just, you're just.
- [52:01]
A
I mean, the science based guys are pretty bad with like, you know, it's always got to be like 5 reps or less for hypertrophy and like, if it's not the most stable exercise that's ever been created, it's not, it's not worth your time. It's like, like you're just clearly someone that's never trained. Okay, I saw something. Tell me how your joints feel. If you're actually strong doing every set that heavy, like, no, that's. This is stupid.
- [52:26]
B
I saw someone recently who was talking about a machine shoulder press. And he was like, well, if you press from here, you're hitting here. If you press from here, you're hitting here. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, no, where do you make this? Where do they. This is completely. But I feel bad because, you know, if you went into a, if you went into a finance person and you sat with that person and they sound smart, they're well dressed and they're wearing the Rolex and they start talking about nonsense, you're gonna be.
- [52:52]
A
You don't know any different.
- [52:53]
B
So how is anyone else gonna know, right? I would love. If you ask me, where do I want to see. Because I think there's so many great things about our industry, but where do I want to see it go? I want more quality control.
- [53:03]
A
Yeah, I've been saying that for a long time too. Nobody wants to hear that.
- [53:06]
B
A couple more quick questions. What's a memorable win as a coach? It doesn't have to be the biggest one, but if you think about it, one memorable win that pops in your head quickly.
- [53:14]
A
Zach Hadge winning the national championships and strongman was 200 pound athlete. And it was after he two day event and on day one, he tripped at the very end of the frame carry and he landed on the edge of it with his throat. And he spent the night in the hospital because he had this massive injury to his throat. Internal. You could look at his throat and see the internal bleeding.
- [53:42]
B
Good God.
- [53:42]
A
He couldn't swallow anything. It was so swollen. It was like. And the next day he came back and he won the national championship. You know, he won.
- [53:53]
B
It almost brings a tear to your eye when you win.
- [53:57]
A
And then a couple years later, he won the Arnold amateur heavyweight competition to qualify to compete in the Arnold's Open. Strongman against, you know, Half Door Bjornsson and Brian Shaw and all those guys. He won the heavyweight amateur weighing 230 pounds, beating guys that were over 100 pounds heavier than him. And I can just remember the days with Zach, just me and Zach, just running out on the turf field together, talking special through things special, you know. Yeah.
- [54:36]
B
Last. Last question. What's one of the hardest lessons you've learned as a coach? Let's close out on this one.
- [54:43]
A
That I'm not a good fit for everybody. You know, like, just, I'm not a good coach for everybody. And. And then trying to solve for that and. Because the solve, to me is always the critical thing. All right. It's really easy to tell I'm not a good fit. This person doesn't like me. I'm not a good coach in this instance. Okay. So I always try to put things into categories and work with it. And, like, I am very organized, meticulous, measured, all of those things. And that's fine. That's a kind of person. That's not everybody. Okay. And there's clients that are not like that, and they work well with a trainer that's not like me. And I have to identify that. This trainer who. I don't understand their approach, and I think they're an idiot. They're a better trainer for that person than I am. And they're bringing value to the equation because they work really well with that person. And where I can be helpful is to say, listen, I'm not the right person for you. I think I've got somebody who you're going to really like, and I think it's going to work really well, and you're going to get much better results with them.
- [55:53]
B
Right.
- [55:54]
A
And they are someone, according to my value system, that is not good, but my value system is just one value system, you know, so.
- [56:04]
B
But that's also why I find you to be one of the best coaches, is because you recognize that. And, you know, listen, this is. This is the pocket I want to live in, and this is where I think I'm going to be able to offer the best value.
- [56:13]
A
Right.
- [56:13]
B
And if you. If you want to, if someone's coming to put on muscle, improve performance, and they are like, I will jump through rings. Like, I'm like, you're one of the first people I'm sending them to. So I want to take some questions and then we're.
- [56:26]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [56:27]
B
Yeah, definitely. Thank you, Chris. Okay, great. So this question is from Barbara in Santa Clarita, and it's a video question,
- [56:36]
A
so I'm gonna put her on screen and play it for you right now.
- [56:39]
B
Thank you.
- [56:39]
A
Hi.
- [56:40]
B
My question has to do with protein, because when I was at Costco yesterday, I noticed that they had high protein soda, high protein potato chips, high Protein cereal. And I'm really trying to have a high protein diet, but I have a hard time figuring out what just has the high protein label on it versus what actually is a good source of protein. So if you could give some advice on sort of wading through all the high protein options and how I can figure out what's actually worth spending my money on and what is actually worth buying, that would be really, really helpful because I just feel pretty overwhelmed when I'm in the grocery store and I don't really feel like I have a sense of how to differentiate what, what is high protein and what really isn't. So that would be super helpful. Thank you. That's very. I call that protein ification, what they're doing now. And I think that's a tremendous question.
- [57:27]
A
I love the question.
- [57:28]
B
Fired off.
- [57:29]
A
So this reminds me 100 of like the vegetarian meals, you know what I mean? Like, where a vegetable based diet is great until you start having all these processed, packaged vegan or vegetarian options that are just crap. Okay. And then you start having like obese vegans and stuff like that. So I want my protein sources to be like, to make sense and be like authentic protein sources. Like if you're telling me you got protein pancakes for me, I want my pancakes to be pancakes. All right? Like, I don't want them cross the streams here. This is straight up Ghostbusters wanted vice. Don't cross the streams. And so if it's intended to be a carb source or a fat source, don't try to modify it and turn it into a protein source.
- [58:15]
B
Yeah.
- [58:15]
A
You know, so it's going to be your classical things of your, you know, animal proteins, your plant proteins, and then your, you know, more old school supplement like whey powders, Cassian powders, things of that nature or some of the bars and but you know, whey Cassian, you know, not when you start getting the, like the collagen protein. That's just like garbage protein. It's garbage. Like, it's not like you eat collagen, it turns into collagen. It's just a bad protein source. So, you know, most of the time, if it is something that's meant to be a carb source or a fat source and now it's packaged and presented to you as a protein source. I don't want my protein coming from that.
- [59:03]
B
I also find a big problem with protein ification is, you know, we start grazing on these things throughout the day. So someone has a bag of protein chips and they're constantly snacking on it. Then they open another bag of protein chips and 3, 4 hours have gone by and they haven't really consumed anything with nutritional value.
- [59:19]
A
Right.
- [59:20]
B
Like there's no fiber, there's no. There's no micronutrients, and it becomes fake food. And listen, you've may have in the past deviated off your diet for a meal with something that's still healthy, but not what you're supposed to be eating. And you'll visually see it on your body. I. I do. I could wake up the next day and see a little bloat or maybe I'm not as dry. And, you know, that just shows how sensitive the body can be when you're getting your body fat down to a specific look.
- [59:47]
A
I'll be. When I am trying to gain weight, my diet turns more and more into the standard American diet.
- [59:54]
B
Or you're just getting calories. Calories.
- [59:57]
A
But when I, When I'm going in the opposite direction of trying to lose weight, it turns into what everybody thinks, a good diet.
- [60:03]
B
The caveman era. You're eating things that come from Earth. I mean, you're eating chicken and you're eating steak and eggs, rice, potatoes.
- [60:09]
A
But why am I doing that? Because it's way more satiating and filling.
- [60:13]
B
Right.
- [60:13]
A
And it's, it's like the one thing that, like, is helping me not be starving on the same calorie level. I could hit the same calorie level and have it be, you know, Kool Aid cereal and protein powder, but I'm going to be starving, right? Versus if it's white potatoes chopped up and some chicken and, you know, a couple of almonds for fat source. Like, that's a much more satiating experience.
- [60:38]
B
I've Never, in my 27 years of being a coach, I've never once heard someone come to me saying, I put on too much body fat from eating way too much sweet potato real hard way to. It's. It's try to. And it was funny. I think Sadiq Hatovic might have done. I think, I think I saw him do a 20,000 calorie challenge one day where, like, him and Juan morale. Yeah, they. They went and they ate 20,000 calories and they're eating pints of ice cream and everything, and they hit it and he said, this is brilliant. I think Sadiq did this. He said, I'm going to do half of that. I'm going to do 10,000 calories one day, but I'm going to do it on clean food. And I think he tapped out at, like, 4 or 5,000 calories. He's like, I can't do it. And try to overeat the good stuff. Watch what happens to your body composition. Dr. Dwayne Jackson said the funniest thing to me once he goes, someone who's obese, put them on an island with a fishing rod and then come talk to me in a month. Like, you got to catch your own food, eat your own food, pick your own vegetables. You're not going to have a problem losing weight. It's going to be pretty easy.
- [61:34]
A
You know, we like my. My contest prep starts next week. Yeah, it is unlimited food. Yeah, but it's only rice and meat. Yeah, it's unlimited to start off with.
- [61:46]
B
Go ahead.
- [61:47]
A
And that's going to be way less
- [61:48]
B
calories your body's going to be like
- [61:49]
A
than what I have been eating. Right.
- [61:51]
B
I love that. You. You have no idea how special this was to me today to sit with you and rap with you. I feel like over the last 10 years, our friendship has just grown and grown. The highest level of respect for you as a human, as a coach, and hope everyone enjoyed this episode. And if there are any questions, you know, fire it off in the comment section and we'll try to get back to you. Thanks, guys. The views, information or opinions expressed in the series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent
- [62:22]
A
those of Chip and joann Gains by
- [62:23]
B
no audio nor Magnolia. You can't reason with the sun. Trust us. We've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's Omnishade technology is engineered to protect
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A
you from the sun's harsh rays that
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B
can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer@columbia.com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on lotion. You're welcome. Columbia engineered for whatever. And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go
- [63:00]
A
to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual.
- [63:04]
B
Even if it means sitting front row
- [63:06]
A
at a comedy show.
- [63:07]
B
Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?
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A
Oh, no.
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B
We help people customize and save on car insurance with liberal Liberty Mutual together. We're married.
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A
Me to a human, him to a bird.
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B
Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways, get a'@libertymutual.com or with your local agent.
- [63:23]
A
Liberty. Liberty.
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B
Liberty.
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A
Liberty.