Evy Poumpouras | Don’t Try to Change People’s Beliefs. Do This Instead

Summary

Stronger with Don Saladino: Episode Featuring Evy Poumpouras — “Don’t Try to Change People’s Beliefs. Do This Instead”

Release Date: August 5, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Stronger with Don Saladino, fitness coach and host Don Saladino sits down with his good friend and former Secret Service agent, Evy Poumpouras. Known for her expertise in understanding human behavior and protecting high-profile individuals, Evy shares her unique insights on effective communication, empathy, and building trust. The conversation delves deep into her storied career, the psychological aspects of law enforcement, and practical advice for personal growth and professional development.

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Evy Poumpouras: A Brief Background

Evy Poumpouras’s career trajectory is nothing short of remarkable. Starting with the New York Police Department (NYPD), Evy transitioned to the U.S. Secret Service, where she specialized as a polygraph examiner and interrogator. Her expertise in human behavior and interrogation techniques has made her a sought-after public speaker and author. Evy’s work extends beyond law enforcement, as she now contributes to national security discussions and serves as an adjunct professor teaching criminal justice.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Building Trust Through Understanding Needs

Evy emphasizes the importance of shifting the focus from trying to change others' beliefs to understanding their needs and mindset. Early in the conversation, she states:

“The big mistake people make when they talk to other people, even in negotiations or business dealings, is, I'm going to try to change your belief system. And that's when things take a nosedive. It's always like, what do they want? If you can flip it and be like, what does this person need? What is this person's headspace? You will have just better connection. You'll also build trust.” [00:02]

This perspective underscores her approach in both her professional interrogations and personal interactions, highlighting empathy as a cornerstone of effective communication.

2. From NYPD to Secret Service: Navigating Rigorous Training

Evy recounts her challenging journey from the NYPD to the U.S. Secret Service. She humorously shares her initial struggle with the NYPD’s physical fitness requirements:

“I show up to nypd. I've passed everything up until that point... I'm running. And I will never forget the NYPD instructor... I squeaked through.” [05:51]

Despite initial setbacks, Evy’s determination and multilingual skills (she speaks six languages, including English) enabled her to transition seamlessly into the Secret Service. Her training at the Glynco, Georgia academy was intensive, focusing on law enforcement tactics, protection strategies, and public interaction.

3. Psychological Understanding in Law Enforcement

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the psychological aspects of law enforcement. Evy explains how empathy and understanding human behavior are crucial in her role:

“Empathy helps you build trust. So if I trust you, and I'm a big trust person, if I don't trust somebody I like, I'm kind of... we're done.” [26:30]

She elaborates on the balance between maintaining authority and fostering trust, especially when dealing with hostile individuals or terrorists. Evy underscores that empathy does not equate to agreement but rather an effort to understand others' perspectives without imposing one's own beliefs.

4. Navigating Public Perception and Media Roles

Evy discusses the complexities of transitioning from a high-stakes government role to becoming a public speaker and media contributor. She highlights the importance of maintaining neutrality and discretion:

“There are things that should just not be said and shared... So there's some stuff like that should just not be said and shared.” [20:21]

Her role as NBC’s law enforcement contributor requires her to present information factually without revealing sensitive national security details. Evy emphasizes the necessity of staying neutral, especially in politically charged environments, to maintain credibility and effective communication.

5. Social Media and Career Implications

Addressing a listener’s question, Evy offers pragmatic advice on managing social media presence for those aspiring to government careers:

“At 13... social media is an incredible tool for certain people, but it's also a weapon. It could be incredibly dangerous for others.” [35:07]

She advises maintaining a minimal or nonexistent social media footprint to avoid potential scrutiny during background checks, highlighting the permanence and reach of online content.

6. Listener Engagement: Q&A Session

The episode includes a lively Q&A segment where listeners submit questions. Two notable interactions include:

• Stephanie Sabatelli and Her Daughter Jocelyn’s Question:

  Stephanie asks about the best path for a 13-year-old aspiring to work in government roles like the FBI or CIA. Evy responds with fundamental advice on character building and avoiding trouble, emphasizing the importance of personal integrity over academic achievements.

  “The most important thing you can do right now is stay out of trouble... think like that. And truly, I really do mean, don't follow what everybody else does.” [37:14]

• Brian from Toronto’s Challenge on Developing a Routine:

  Brian shares his struggle with re-establishing a fitness routine after an injury and transitioning from a gym to a home setup. Evy advises rejoining a gym to benefit from the psychological boost of being around others, reinforcing accountability and motivation.

  “I think you need to ditch the gym in your home and you need to go to a gym... That's a psychological thing.” [44:01]

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Notable Quotes

• Evy Poumpouras on Empathy:

  “Empathy is not agreement. I was never like, I agree with you, but I can understand where you're coming from.” [25:42]

• Evy on Career Influence:

  “Nobody is self-made. I am not self-made.” [27:28]

• Evy’s Advice on Social Media:

  “At 13... social media is an incredible tool for certain people, but it's also a weapon. It could be incredibly dangerous for others.” [35:07]

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Conclusion

This episode of Stronger with Don Saladino offers invaluable insights from Evy Poumpouras, blending her extensive experience in law enforcement with practical advice on personal development and effective communication. Evy’s emphasis on empathy, understanding needs, and maintaining integrity serves as a powerful guide for listeners aiming to build strength not just physically, but mentally and emotionally as well. Through engaging storytelling and thoughtful dialogue, Evy Poumpouras exemplifies what it truly means to be strong in every area of life.

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Final Thoughts

Evy Poumpouras’s journey from the NYPD to the Secret Service and beyond is a testament to resilience, adaptability, and the power of understanding human behavior. Her ability to navigate high-pressure environments while maintaining empathy and integrity provides a blueprint for personal and professional growth. Whether you’re looking to enhance your fitness routine, build better relationships, or develop a stronger mindset, the lessons shared in this episode are sure to inspire and empower.

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Thank you for reading this detailed summary of the podcast episode. For more insights and inspiring stories, subscribe to Stronger with Don Saladino on your preferred platform. Let’s get stronger—together.

Transcript

[Evie Pompous]

Blind nil audio. The big mistake people make when they talk to other people, even in negotiations or business dealings, is, I'm going to try to change your belief system. And that's when things take a nosedive. It's always like, what do they want? If you can flip it and be like, what does this person need? What is this person's headspace? You will have just better connection. You'll also build trust.

[Don Saladino]

Welcome to Stronger. On today's show is my good friend Evie Pompous. As a former secret service agent and interrogator, Evie is one of the best in the world at understanding human behavior and teaching others how to protect themselves, both physically and mentally. I'm Don Saladino. Let's get stronger with Evie Pompous. So I met Evie Pompous, one of my dear friends now, at Dr. Gabrielle Line's event in Austin. Yes, it was in Austin. So I go, I can't tell you how many speakers I listen to because I'm always at fitness conferences and I'm in the crowd and I'm listening to you, and I'm like, very add to begin with. And I'm like, this. And I was locked for an hour, like, probably. And I've told you this before, I know you're going to get embarrassed, but probably one of the more powerful and, like, grabbing speakers that I've listened to, and the whole crowd was locked in. And I was just. I couldn't. I was so impressed with your delivery and just how there was never a point where you said anything where you'd be like, oh, that's boring, or I lost you. So then we. I think we connected there and we started. I don't even remember how do we.

[Evie Pompous]

Like, you invited me to the barn.

[Don Saladino]

I invited you to the barn? Yeah. But I was very, like, I was very, like. I was very, like, no, no, my wife's there. I'm not a creep. Like, I was very, like, nervous about Come off. Yeah, I was very, like, I was trying not to come off as a creep because I, you know. And then Des came out, and I met Des and I was like, oh, this is like my long lost brother. I was like, we're, like, built the same. We're like, same, like, very similar mindset when it comes to training. He's very, very similar mindset with family and all this stuff. I just feel every once in a while you connect with people and you're.

[Evie Pompous]

Like, I listen to that. It's so. It's rare for me to do that. And so thank you I'm very humbled by that. But it's rare. But there are moments where, like, you trust your intuition, and there's sometimes you have a familiarity with some people or connection, and that happens. And I always listen to that. It's rare when I feel it, but I did feel it. And then, like, from the day. The day we came out to the barn, even from the moment you and I spoke, like, right away, I was like, I like them. So I always listen to.

[Don Saladino]

I felt the same way.

[Evie Pompous]

My intuition and instinct. And. Yeah, it's only been a year. And it's funny you say that with the speaking stuff. I actually never. My goal was never to be a speaker. And maybe that's why I do well doing it, because I. I didn't want to be a speaker. I. I remember thinking, like, what am I going to get up on stage and talk to people about? And it was actually completely by accident. I started doing the Today show, and I did a segment on something and another segment on them where I was teaching or helping the public. And just somebody wrote in, hey, would you speak at this interviewing conference? And it was for law enforcement and investigators. And I said, sure, I could teach interviewing. And that's how it started me speaking on stage. And it actually went from me training investigators and law enforcement on how to do interviewing to taking that and talking to just companies or the average person and kind of morphing the information so that it could help people. But, yeah, like, completely by accident, I never wanted to be on stage. Even now when I get on stage, it's not that I don't. I always think, okay, this isn't about me. Who am I speaking to? What do they need? And now I have, like, a speaker bureau and the whole legit thing. But always, too, when I talk to a company, I always say I want to talk to the organization and people before. And then I always ask, what do you need? And so I think that those things have helped me.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, 100%. But you're, like, coaching me now on it. So it's funny how, like, we connect. And for those of you out there who are like, who is Evie Pompeuris? I mean, I would describe you as. I mean, obviously, you're an author, you're a wife, you're a mother, you're someone that's worked. You are a public speaker, but your career started as a Secret Service agent.

[Evie Pompous]

I actually started with the nypd.

[Don Saladino]

Okay.

[Evie Pompous]

And I went in as a police recruit. And you're going, appreciate the story. So when you go to the nypd, you have to take a physical fitness test to get the job. And part of that is running a mile and a half. Now, I was always super fit, but I never had to run. I'm like, what? I. I ran to, like, a sale at Bloomingdale's. That's the truth. That's the truth, you know, so I'm like 22 years old. I'm thinking, whatever. I might have even been 21. And my physical fitness test is coming up, and I'm like, I don't need to run. I didn't understand in my head that running and looking and feeling physically fit are not the same thing. So I show up to nypd. I've passed everything up until that point. I show up to the old training academy, which was attached to the 13 precinct. This is decrepit building. And what they did is they had this massive gym, and there was this green line around the gym, and you had to run it 25 times. 25 times was a mile and a half. So I'm thinking I got this. Yeah, no, never ran that far. Never even ran a quarter of a mile consistently, because I never had to because I was young. I was dying. I'm running. And I will never forget the NYPD instructor. Well, not. He was an instructor, but he was keeping tabs. I. I looked like I was death. I was just like. And I just. Was like. He just nodded his head at me. Like, he just shook his head like, I can't believe they. You're here. I can't believe it. Because to run it under a certain time, I. It escapes me what the time was. I like, squeaked through. When I say squeaked.

[Don Saladino]

You made about a couple seconds.

[Evie Pompous]

I squeaked. Squeaked. And the guy just shook his head. Put my dame down. I for sure was like, they're not going to call me back.

[Don Saladino]

All right, so it was. It was nypd. What, what, what area were you in? What was your precinct?

[Evie Pompous]

I didn't even get a precinct. I was in the training academy back then. It was eight months. It was a long time. So I went through, like, a few months. Then while I was in that process, I applied to U.S. secret Service. Not thinking much of anything. I was like, ah, if they take me, they take me. And then I just moved through that process and got hired. So when I started. So I went literally from one academy to another, and I was 22, 23.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, wow.

[Evie Pompous]

A super green, super young. I was probably the youngest in my. Actually in both my classes, I was maybe even the youngest, because in both places, nypd. I was there with like, former military and US Secret Service. Former military, Former law enforcement. But I spoke languages.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. So I had like three or four languages.

[Evie Pompous]

Six.

[Don Saladino]

Six languages.

[Evie Pompous]

Six with English.

[Don Saladino]

Okay.

[Evie Pompous]

You count English.

[Don Saladino]

You gotta. So throw another one in there.

[C]

Yeah.

[Evie Pompous]

So that helped me a lot. And then my background just. I would work for a congresswoman. So those things helped me just get through the process.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. Fast track.

[Evie Pompous]

I don't want to say fast track, because you have to, but just for them to even look at you, because they get thousands and thousands of applications, and so you're really competing, like, next to really elite people. Not a lot of women. Not a lot of women apply, to be honest, because even after I got hired, I had to do polygraphs. I became a polygraph examiner, which is rare, but there's only a 30 out of the thousands of employees. So to do that job, you have to take a polygraph and pass it. So it's very invasive. There's two parts to it. I have to be vague because I don't want to give anything away.

[Don Saladino]

Sure.

[Evie Pompous]

But one part is national security stuff, you know, treason, that kind of thing. Any terrorist, you know, organizations. And the other part, which the majority of people don't like and the majority of people really struggle with, is lifestyle questions. You know, what have you. You know, your background, have you committed a crime? And, you know, you might be like.

[Don Saladino]

So they pry.

[Evie Pompous]

It's very invasive. It's like, have you done any of these things? And there's a massive list of that to include drugs. And that's really where so many people get filtered out. So those. So you have to go through that process. So there's a lot you have to do to get through. I mean, there's even. And I. I'm going to be super vague. I won't say anything beyond this, but there's politicians that are in politics now that actually tried to be agents and couldn't pass.

[Don Saladino]

Right. Just because.

[Evie Pompous]

Because it's so hard.

[Don Saladino]

Their background.

[Evie Pompous]

Yes, because you. The idea is you have to be. You have to be super squeaky clean because it's not just because you're law enforcement. You have a badge and a gun and all that, because you are enforcing federal law, but you're also in the White House. You're around presidents, you're around people talking about national security and intelligence. So you are in a space where you are overhearing and privileged to this information. So they really need to make sure that you're.

[Don Saladino]

So how long Was it. So you went from one academy. How long was the government Secret Service Academy?

[Evie Pompous]

Maybe seven months.

[Don Saladino]

Seven months.

[Evie Pompous]

Maybe seven months total. It's like three and a half months. You go to Glynco, Georgia, which is where all the federal agents go. Like. So that's like where they look at. If you want to be a federal agent, you have to go here. So they teach you law shooting tactics, pt they do it all. And then if you pass that and graduate, then you go to U.S. secret Service training, which is specific to the law and the cases that they work. And then protection, a lot of protection. A lot of ambush tactics, you know, in specific tactics with that. Because you're dealing with the public and you need to learn how to handle the public. Like, you can't just throw down with the public. Like, you just can't.

[Don Saladino]

That I always find incredibly challenging. Right, because you have the public who gets, I think, very aggressive towards different types of law enforcement, right. And coming at them, and they're screaming at them. And the law enforcement is always, most of the time, very calm, and they have to sit back and they have to really kind of bite their tongue a bit and. But I think it gets, you know, I think it gets incredibly dangerous for the law enforcement because people are ready to just do whatever. And the law enforcement there are, you know, there are rules to what they're allowed, what they can and what they can't do. And I've seen people cross. And I'm not. Obviously, I'm not a Secret Service agent. I'm not a. I'm not a police officer. But I've even seen on the streets, people push the line a lot more now than I remember seeing when I was growing up. Like, I'll walk in. In Manhattan, I'll see people going at cops or screaming at them. And I'm like, back in the day, like, you see a law enforcement officer and you'd be like this. People just. I feel like people aren't like that anymore.

[Evie Pompous]

So there's a couple of things. So the one thing is with law enforcement in general, like, you're there typically when you show up, nobody's happy to see you. Like, you're typically there to arrest somebody, to investigate something. Like, somebody's in trouble. And so it's not like the fire department, we used to joke around, like, everybody loves the fire department. They're there to save you. We would show up and it's like, you're here to, like, yeah, we're here to arrest you or whatever. So when you're in that capacity. Because in the Secret Service, you also were. I worked cases a lot of people don't know. We actually had, like, search warrants, arrest warrants. We worked legitimate cases, and we partnered with other departments. But when you show up to do that, nobody wants to go to jail or prison. So people will fight you. So you have the psychological understanding that you're going to be dealing with that. And at the end of the day, you want to go home safely, you want your peers to go home safely, and in truth, you want whoever you're going to arrest to be safe. A lot of people don't think that. They think like that. At least I was trained. Like, everybody goes home safely in person, including the person you're trying to arrest and the people in that environment. So that's one. Now, when you're dealing with protection, that's a different environment because you have to think you're dealing with people who have an obsession or hatred or whatever it is toward a person you're protecting. And now you're dealing with masses of people, and you're going to demonstrations where there's thousands or tens of thousands. So you have to create security around that. And then you just have the average person who just completely drops code, like, and they're hugging the president and they've got him in, like, a death grip. And you're like, you have to let go and you're lit. You're literally taught maneuvers to do on just regular people to help them, like, you know, release, you know, like, little things like where to grab them for pressure points and really to get them to release the person you're protecting. So those are the two things that you're. That we would deal with. So we had to be really aware of both avenues now as far as, like, how people feel about law enforcement. When I started, it was pre 9, 11. So everybody at that time still hated law enforcement. Yeah, I mean, they did. But I think what's happening now is it just transparently when people commit crime and they don't get prosecuted, it perpetuates just behavior. And I'm an adjunct professor, I teach criminal justice. So I'm speaking truly from just what we know works when it comes to deterring behavior. So if you're looking at deterring bad behavior, which it just is inevitable, like, it exists, there's two things that deter that behavior. One, you know you're going to get caught. You know you're going to get caught. Two, you know, if you get caught, you get punished. That's it. That's what we know based on criminological theories, and there's a lot of different ones. Those two things are king. They just work. And even you can't even. As far as, like, curtailing human behavior from the beginning of time, we're talking thousands of years ago, we've been trying to manage human. Human behavior because people hurt one another. It's always existed. I mean, you ever hear the term I and I for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. So that's called the code of Hammurabi, and that's thousands of years old. And so even from back then, people were trying to figure out, how do I manage this human being's behavior so they don't hurt this other human being? And so that's actually where it started. So when you hear that, that's actually the first attempt to curtail crime, or if you want to think criminal justice, that's the first attempt to really be like, we have to manage people.

[Don Saladino]

So, I mean, your career. I mean, you've had a pretty intense career. I mean, if you think about it, I mean, I don't want to say it started. I mean, 911 was obviously a big thing. I mean, I was in the city during that. I mean, I remember being uptown when that went on. You also served for what, three presidents?

[Evie Pompous]

I served under three presidents. I started under Clinton, Clinton, George Bush. I had junior and then President Barack Obama. So I served under, like, their current presidencies. But then you get tasked with protecting the former. So I had Ford, I had George Bush Senior, you know, their spouses. And then you also get, like, people think. People that some people don't think about, like chief of Staff. Or you'll get, like, direct the.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, so they'll throw you at someone else. It won't just be where you're with the president. They'll be like, we want you. This is your detail.

[Evie Pompous]

Oh, you get everybody. Like, I went to Russia with Secretary of Treasury Paulson.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Evie Pompous]

You know, or I've gone to with Secretary of Homeland Security. There's so many people that get protection that the public, like, has no awareness. And then there's the kids. Sometimes you'll get grandkids. So you protect a lot of people. And like, for example, like, if the prime minister of Italy comes to the US or the president escapes my mind now, whether they have a president or prime minister, and that's all. But when they come to the U.S. they get protection. So you're protecting a lot of assets.

[Don Saladino]

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[Evie Pompous]

Yeah.

[Don Saladino]

You've seen some pretty terrible things. You protected a lot of very powerful people. How did the terrorist interrogation piece. I've never asked you this, like, how did that, how did that come in? I mean, that was a big part of your career, wasn't it?

[Evie Pompous]

The. So there's a lot of intelligence stuff that comes into the U.S. secret Service. Now, usually anything overseas is CIA. Anything. Technically, CIA can't operate here in the U.S. they can only operate overseas. So when you think CIA, which I almost got recruited into, but when you think CIA, it's all outside. So what, they're the ones in charge of getting intelligence, getting information, threats. Now if it was I want to blow up New York City and I want to kill the president in the United States, then we would come in. Then the U. S. Secret Service come in because that's a protective. So that jurisdiction would kind of trumpet. So we. Because I was a polygraph examiner, it was just a special skill set that the U.S. secret Service sent me training to build upon that.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, so they sent you in there like expecting you to, like, we want to train Evie to do this. Or did they see something in you where they were like, oh, you're going to be great at this.

[Evie Pompous]

Like, they had 30 positions. Like there's only. It was like an elite unit. Think of it like every agency has their units or special, like, you know, squads. It was a special like unit within the service. And There was only X amount of positions, so one position to open up. And I didn't want to put in for it. I didn't think I'd be good at it. I didn't think anybody would talk to me. I thought they would eat me for lunch. Truth be told, like, you know, I was. I didn't know. And I'm thankful that my superiors believed in me. And. And, like, full disclosure, they're all men. And they were like you. They're like, you're going to be great at this. And I remember thinking. I'm like, what are they thinking? And they're like, they will never see you coming. Like, you will get information from people because their walls will be down, completely down. They're going to see you and be like, oh, this chick. What is she going to get me to do? And so people were much more relaxed, less inhibited. It was more conversational. I wasn't adversarial in the room. That stuff didn't work for me. It would work for maybe some of the guys. So you had to find, like, your own way. But I would just get. People would just talk, and then I would be able to get information from people so that we could figure out what's a threat, what's not a threat. But that's how terrorism came in. And obviously before 9, 11, like, it wasn't on anybody's radar at all. That after 9 11, it's on everybody's radar completely. And then technically, FBI is the one who has the terrorism, you know, oversight. Although other people, you know, partake. But before that, FBI only did, like, FBI's big thing was robbery, organized crime, missing children. And then it just completely. In a sad way, terrorism came in, and the FBI actually took all their attention away from crime, that kind of crime, and it went to terrorism. And so now you have this really big gulf of, like, a lot of crime that doesn't get looked at because you had to make space for this other stuff.

[Don Saladino]

I heard this, and I don't know if it's true, so I'm gonna throw it at you right now.

[Evie Pompous]

You do. You always come at me. You're like, evie, I heard this. I need to know if this is real. You have a little, tiny conspiracy theorist in you. It's okay, don. We're still BFFs. It's okay.

[Don Saladino]

No, no, no. But obviously, if empathy. I heard that some of the Secret Service agents or the interrogators would almost have to find themselves, bring themselves to the level of the terrorist, meaning, like, they almost have to show a level of empathy or try or understanding of why it is they're doing what they are doing to extract out of them what they need. Is that true or is that. Because I would think if I was in your situation and I'm going in and I'm. And I'm meeting with a terrorist, you know, I'm going to be pretty disgusted and pretty angry over that person. But to get out of that individual, what you need to get out of, I would assume that it is the art of a negotiation here. Like, you've got to find a way to do whatever it is you need to do to extract that information out of them. Is that true or is that just kind of a myth?

[Evie Pompous]

So the way you're trained, like, it's like, I. I received very good training because they brought psychologists, they brought researchers in. They even sent me to get my master's degree in forensic psychology. So kudos to the Secret Service for being like. They wanted me to approach it from a different angle. Now, that's one. Here's the thing. You have to look at it and this is like, with anything, if you talk to people like they are a piece of shit, they're going to give you shit back, right? And a terrorist. Although from my perspective, yours were kind of like, how could you do that? So, yes, like, you brought up 9 11. Like, I was in the towers on 9 11. I survived my 9 11. I lived through it. All those things are true. But if I went in and my spiel was, you know, I was in the towers, I saw these people die. I almost died myself. Who did I just make that interview about? I just made that thing about me, right? So nobody gives a. Like, nobody gives a. About me. It's not about me. Your ego. Like, there was a saying, your ego gets checked out the door. Your goal is to get information. The other thing is you're terrorist or evildoer, however you want to label the person. In their mind, they're like, I'm not the bad guy. You're the bad guy. You're the one who invaded my country. You're the one who imposes these things. You're the one who's giving weapons to this country or that country. You're the one doing this stuff. So in their mind, I'm the bad guy.

[Don Saladino]

And that's what they've also maybe been fed since they were a little child, right? Maybe they witnessed their family die or something happened.

[Evie Pompous]

There's a lot of factors in, like, where, you know, it's. It would Be completely false of me to say that the United States, like, we don't meddle in other people's stuff, which we do. It's, it's very. It's obvious. We try to manage the world. One of the ways we manage the world truly is by giving money. That's always been the thing. It's like, they call it soft influence. So it's like, here, you take a little bit of money, you take some money, you take some money, and the idea is you have soft power. You know, there's. There's two things. There's hard power and there's soft power. So hard power is military weapons, guns. That's my hard power as a country. Soft power is my influence. Take some money here, take some money there. Oh, you need training. We're going to send our people to train, you know, also. Oh, you want to come to the United States? The United States has an incredible amount of soft power. And the reason why, it's very clear is everybody wants to come here. If we were such pieces of, nobody would want to come. But people want to come here for a reason. So that's how those two animals work. Now with terrorism or most people, like, they don't see themselves as the bad guy. And I'm not going to sit there and in a matter of, what, five hours or 10 or 12 or even two days, I'm not going to sit and undo whatever belief system this person has that they've accumulated over their entire life. Like, how, first of all, narcissistic is it of me? Like, let me stop in, step in and enlighten you, number one. Number two is, and, and, and that's a school of thought that for everything, the big mistake people make when they talk to other people, even in negotiations or business dealings, is I'm going to try to change your belief system. Everybody has a value system. That value system, a belief system is. You start building that from day one, the day you're born, how are you raised? Your parents, whether you had parents, did you have good parents or bad parents? Because not everybody has good ones. Friends, what were your friends like? What were your associations like? Where did you work? Who did you surround yourself with? And then your experiences, your dramas, your traumas, all these things make you you. And so the thing that people get wrong is, I'm going to come in because I, I know everything and I'm going to school you. And that's when things take a nosedive. So the way empathy works, if you understand it, it's not like, oh, I'M really sorry. That must be really, really hard. It's not just that. It's me making the extra effort to understand why you think the way you think. And so I could, like, legit, I really could sit and I could listen to terrorists or terrorist sympathizers tell me why they would want to kill me or why they had killed members of the military or others. But they would. I got to tell you, Don, like, they would lay out like, this happened, this happened, this happened, this happened. And I could say, I can see why you feel that way. I didn't. Empathy is not agreement. I was never like, I agree with you, but I can understand where you're.

[Don Saladino]

Coming from, why they were so angry. So.

[Evie Pompous]

But even when you do deals, like, when you're doing deals, even, like, you've got, like, tons of deals you're always doing, it's always like, what do they want? What matters to them? What do they need? And what can I give? When you come at from your you angle me angle, you're not going to do well because you've got your agenda and you're checking your stuff off. And that's why, if you can flip it and be like, what does this person need? What is this person? Heads. Person's headspace, you will have just better connection. You'll also build trust. Empathy helps you build trust. So if I trust you, and I'm a big trust person, if I don't trust somebody I like, I'm very like, once trust is gone, I'm kind of. I. You know, I don't. I won't say it, but in my head, I'm like, we're done.

[Don Saladino]

So you've taken this honestly, I mean, you've taken this incredible career. I mean, if you're to look back, it's funny, I love talking to people like you because you can look back over the last 20, 25 years and say, you know, if we were to go back in time and point out the things you're doing right now, you'd.

[Evie Pompous]

Be like, I don't know what I'd be. I didn't. Look, truth. I went into this job, I didn't do drugs because of the job, because he had to be cleaner. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't drink. I'm not saying some don't, but I. It made me like. I went to training. I. I had no idea. My first week in NYPD training, full disclosure, I thought I was going to quit. I'm like, why are they yelling at me? Yeah, I just want to like, serve, like, as an officer. They really changed. They. They taught me not to think about myself, to be of service of others. So I have to tell you, I don't know who I would be had I not taken this path. That's just the honest truth. So I can't really take full responsibility to be like, I am self made. And I always chuckle when I hear that I'm self made.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, who is?

[Evie Pompous]

Nobody is self made. I am not self made. But that job also gave me the backbone to not get my feelings hurt. Learn how to get my feelings hurt. Learn how to recover. Nobody wants to hear your griping, like, get the job done. And then also to take risks to do. Like, I left a perfectly great job working in the White House. And I went from that to, like, going to the news. Like, you know, I did a complete leapfrog, like, jump to a completely different career.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. But not everyone. But what's interesting, and that's what I'm saying now, is what's interesting is all the Secret Service agents, you know, very few, I think, can do.

[Evie Pompous]

They all thought I was nuts.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. But, like, even so, like, I would love to give a shout out to Evie's most recent book is called Becoming Bulletproof. So maybe we can, you know, throw that out there. But, you know, the fact that you're now a writer. How many books is it? Two or three?

[Evie Pompous]

I've done. No, I've done one. I'm working on two.

[Don Saladino]

Two. Okay.

[Evie Pompous]

You know what it is? It's been published in, like, a whole bunch of countries. Russia. It's been published in Chinese, Turkey, Greece, like, all over the world. So that's why there's all these book covers. But even the book where I didn't set out to be an author, and in fact, I. After I left and I started doing the news, people would come to me, but everyone wanted a tell all book.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, yeah.

[Evie Pompous]

Like, tell me about this. And you can probably relate, like, oh, tell me about the people you, you know. You know, protected and almost like, probably you get that a lot. Tell me about. Who do you like training the most? Who's the biggest jerk?

[Don Saladino]

You can't do that.

[Evie Pompous]

And you can't. You can't do that. I just did a really big podcast the other day. Not that this one isn't big. This one's going to be great. But this person, you know, and he asked me, who's your favorite person I'm always to protect or did you like being around the most? And I'm always baffled by that. Question. I'm like, does he really think I'm going to.

[Don Saladino]

I don't know why they would even ask that. I feel like it's kind of just so. I'm nervous enough asking you specific questions here. Like, I'm like. Because I know that there's some. You could talk about certain things. And plus, I don't want you to go all in. Like, that's not my goal. My goal is just to give everyone a little bit of taste.

[Evie Pompous]

People want the juice and the gossip. The problem is everybody loves the gossip. Nobody loves the gossiper. Nobody. You want to kill your name? You want to kill your reputation? Start talking about other people. Start putting it out there. You'll be hot for about 15 minutes, and then after that, everyone knows.

[Don Saladino]

See ya.

[Evie Pompous]

You're done.

[Don Saladino]

So now you've got your second book that you're working on, doing a lot more news, a lot more tv. And you've done, I think you've done an incredible job navigating that. Because sometimes you'll get asked questions that you know the news, you know, that you can't fully answer. I mean, you're, you're, you're always in a situation where anytime something in this world goes wrong, you are the hot commodity right now. You're the one who's getting a call and you're like, you've got to be down here to do these, you know, whatever episodes or how many different shows. And they're firing some tough questions on you. But I think you've handled yourself beautifully in navigating what you can and can't answer.

[Evie Pompous]

You have to have discernment like you, you can take time. So I'm NBC's, you know, and again, I'm NBC's law enforcement contributor in some national security, so attacks New Orleans, where we had those bombings.

[Don Saladino]

Sure.

[Evie Pompous]

You know, all these different things. I'll come in and break those down. And so there's two things I have to navigate carefully. One is never to divulge anything that's national security security related. You have to sit there and while you're live and you're talking about things, you have to do the mental math to say to yourself, can I say this or can I not say this? Because there's also bad actors like that watch this stuff. Like, they study this stuff. So sometimes in the US we like to be transparent. And I'm going to be honest, like it's stupid, because the, the bad actors in the world watch and study this stuff. So when we talk about this stuff, it's not an American, just an American citizen. Who cares? Who's listening? Everybody's listening. So there's some stuff like that should just not be said and shared. That's one. The other thing is I have to be neutral because sometimes politics come in. And I've served under all different types of administrations, you know, and I'm always Switzerland, neutral. I never pick sides. I never do anything. And to their credit, NBC, actually, even the main producer I work with, they keep me out of stuff. They're like, no, we want to keep you neutral. Because the minute I start chiming in about politics, which I, I don't like to do, because I probably protected almost all of them at some point, and it's not my place. Also, too. I also feel like there's so many people telling everybody who to. What to think and who to vote for. Like, people are smart enough to decide on their own. I don't want to be another voice in somebody's head telling you who to be. You're smart enough. Make up your own.

[Don Saladino]

Make up your own decision.

[Evie Pompous]

Yeah. So I stay out of that. So that's another thing where I'm always listening to what's being asked because it can be misconstrued. Oh, she's really talking about him. Or she's really supporting this. And, you know, I'm like, I have to be really, really careful.

[Don Saladino]

I think you've done an incredible job of that. And I think we're going to take a few questions now. Right. Team Abby. This has been incredible. Obviously, I knew this was going to be incredible. You're just the best. I love you and thank you for doing this again. But so what we typically do is, you know, anywhere, two to three questions.

[Evie Pompous]

Oh, this is pretty cool that you can do this.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Evie Pompous]

As long as they don't ask me about macros, I'm. I'm fine.

[Don Saladino]

You'd be surprised. We've already had.

[Evie Pompous]

Well, you're gonna handle that?

[Don Saladino]

I'll. I'll handle that, yeah. Anything. How about make you a deal? Anything government, you handle anything macro.

[Evie Pompous]

But as long as I can hit, like, the fitness.

[Don Saladino]

I'm kicking the fitness stuff to you. I wanna. Because, you know, we, we did talk about, you know, your training and working with me, but I want people to hear a little bit of stuff that you do.

[Evie Pompous]

Also, I love to train with you. You're a great trainer.

[Don Saladino]

Thank you. Appreciate that. Okay, so, Don, first person up is Stephanie Sabatelli. I know Stephanie, and she's on with her daughter Jocelyn. And Jocelyn wants to ask Evie A question. Okay. Stephanie Sabatelli is one of my challengers. She's. I think she lives up in the Bronx. Steph.

[Evie Pompous]

Oh, we can even see them. Hi.

[Don Saladino]

It's great connecting with you both. And fire your question away.

[D]

Okay, so I'm 13, I'm going into high school next year, and I would like to end up working for the government as an FBI, CIA, or in the Secret Service. Like, what you did, what do you believe is the best path I could take right now to get there?

[Don Saladino]

Good question.

[Evie Pompous]

Okay, so, yes, I heard it. So I'm going to be really honest with you. The most important thing you can do right now is stay out of trouble. Because in your. These are the years where you can make bad decisions, you can follow the wrong people. Everybody thinks it's going to be. Study this, do that, pay attention to who you hang out with, Stay out of trouble. When people are making not so smart decisions, don't follow. And if you want to go in government, like we talked about this earlier, they ask you very personal questions. And like, I, I don't. Not trying to be a commercial, but like, I'd steer away from drugs that, like, I can't tell you how many good people want these jobs. And they make bad decisions growing up. And then they're like, I can't get. And they can't get the job.

[Don Saladino]

Do they? And even like, specific things. I'm assuming they would go back into social media. Like, I always told my son, be careful, or my daughter, like, be careful what you're posting. Like, is that something that you know, that's like your electronic portfolio? Are they going to go back in years later and find something and be like, look, right, like, these are kids. Post something.

[Evie Pompous]

I'm going to ask you a question. Do you have social.

[D]

Yes, but I have a private account and I don't post.

[Evie Pompous]

Yeah. So I say this with all in the love of my heart. I don't care that you have a private account. You have an account, and I don't think you should be posting because at 13, and I dare you, you probably a wonderful kid. Like, at 13, like, you don't realize what you're putting out there. That stuff lives forever. So you can hit delete it is there. So when you go get this government job, just so you know, the agency can subpoena Instagram or whoever, and they can say, I want to see everything she's written and posted. You don't need it, you don't need to be on it.

[Don Saladino]

It could even be a repost. Right. It could be something that is in politics today and you support someone or something and you repost it and, you know, it could be someone else's words. It's still up there. It really is. I think social media is an incredible tool for certain people, but it's also a weapon. It could be incredibly dangerous for others.

[Evie Pompous]

I just, I. I just. Because you. Because of what you're telling me you would like to do, I would just. I feel like, like the, the Debbie Downer here. But it's like, just. There's so many reasons. Like, I don't. You don't need it. Even if it's private. Like, none of that stuff is private. Stuff gets hacked. You don't know who's on the other side. You just don't. I would just have, like, a lot of awareness. And you know what? Like, nobody needs to know everything you're doing. I have social. I will. I. I can't tell you. I will sit and think for about two weeks before I post something. It's so, you know. Yeah, it's like, I use it for business and connecting with public, not like, hey, everybody, look at me. So those are the best things I can give you, truly, for advice as far as what you study. Like, everyone thinks that that matters more. The things that matter most are the things we just told you because it has to do with your character and what shapes. Shapes your character. And truly, when you go to these academies, they teach you all of it. They teach you everything. I didn't take a single criminal justice class.

[Don Saladino]

That's pretty easy, isn't it? Just don't get into trouble and don't post.

[Evie Pompous]

I'm trying to help mom out too.

[Don Saladino]

Pretty. Pretty good stuff.

[Evie Pompous]

She. She's really. I mean, I gotta say, I'm really proud of her because only in the last couple of months has she really gotten onto any type of social media. And even then, she doesn't really use it. I'm very proud of her and the person that she's becoming, Sabs.

[Don Saladino]

She's got a great mother. What I just said, you hear me? So good job.

[Evie Pompous]

Thank you. Thank you, my friend. Yeah, maybe you know what one, One small thing you could do that's that learn a language. Learn a good language that makes you. That'll just add a little value to you. A language that's not. Don't learn Spanish. Everybody speaks it now. Like, learn a language that's very unique that the government could use. You have to think of, why would they want to hire me if there's Thousands of people applying for these jobs. What makes they look at it like, why should I hire you? What are you bringing? That's different. So think like that. And truly, I really do mean, don't follow what everybody else does. If I followed my friends, what they did, I. I definitely would never have had this job.

[Don Saladino]

Interesting.

[D]

Thank you for the. For the advice.

[Evie Pompous]

You're welcome. You're welcome.

[Don Saladino]

All right. Steph, it's great seeing you.

[Evie Pompous]

You too, Don. Thanks.

[D]

Thank you, Evie. Thank you.

[Don Saladino]

That's good advice.

[Evie Pompous]

Parents either love me or hate me.

[Don Saladino]

No more social media. Oh, my.

[Evie Pompous]

I know. I'm, like, the worst. No good.

[Don Saladino]

At least you're not sugarcoating it. It's perfect.

[Evie Pompous]

It's honest. Like, I don't want to give, like, BS advice to people. It's really just. That's the stuff that sneaks up on people, and then they're like, I don't understand. It's like, yeah, you know.

[Don Saladino]

Chris, are we ready for the next. Yep. Up next, we have Brian from Toronto.

[C]

Hey, how's it going?

[Don Saladino]

Hey, Brian. How are you?

[Evie Pompous]

Hi, Brian.

[C]

My question was it's really centered around routine and, like, developing a healthy routine to give you a little bit of background. About two years ago, I started working with a trainer at a gym. I've really learned a lot about not only nutrition, but also, you know, the kind of strength training that my body responds to. Well, the kind of exercises, the kind of routines at the gym. And I worked with them for about a year and a half, two years, and beginning of last summer, I stopped working with them just because, I mean, I work in film, and it was a really slow year after the strike, so I was like, you know what? Like, I'm super, super active in the summer. You know, I cycle, I play tennis, I run all the time, you know, so keeping fit during the summer shouldn't be a big deal. But in September, I actually. I tore my calf playing tennis, which was kind of a bummer, as you can probably imagine. So I kind of. I've been in a bit of a funk, you know, like, last summer, after I stopped going to the gym, I built a home gym that's got pretty much everything I need. Anything from a rack to dumbbells to run machines to cycling, like, everything. And now that, you know, I've. I've healed and my leg is better and I can get back to it. Even though I have everything at my fingertips and I can just wake up and go right to the gym, I'm really struggling to program my brain into that routine again. You know, like when I was going to the gym, I'd be up at 6:30, I'd be at the gym, do an hour there, and then I'd start my day. And because that's never been part of my home routine, I'm really finding it tricky to kind of dial in, you know, something that's consistent not just across multiple seasons, but like, you know, when I'm traveling too, because I travel a lot for work, so. Sure, yeah.

[Don Saladino]

Do you want me to. I mean, listen, I want you to.

[Evie Pompous]

Answer, but I have no.

[Don Saladino]

I want you to go. I want you.

[Evie Pompous]

Can you go first?

[Don Saladino]

I want you to kick it first because. Do you really want me to go first?

[Evie Pompous]

I do want you to go first. Come on. I've answered all your questions. You go. I'm just curious to see how you answer.

[Don Saladino]

So, one, I think first off, when you, when you have an injury, my number one goal is to figure out how to train around that injury for several reasons. One, there's a. There's a restorative component to training. So if you break your right arm, you can still train your left arm because there is a carryover to the arm that's bad. Meaning if we could train the left arm, there are restorative components to where that will scientifically speed up the healing process. And you could train lower body. And you can, I think mentally you're going to put yourself into a better place. So, you know, a strained calf, a torn calf, whatever it is. If I was guiding you in the first place, I would have turned around and said, listen, let's continue to do things with your good leg. Let's speak to your doctor and say, what do you want me staying away from? You know what, we want you staying away from anything that bothers it or just you've got to stay off the right leg completely or whatever leg it was that you hurt. Great. And we're going to go about doing that because I want you mentally in a good place. Not to where you're saying to yourself, oh my God, I just took three months off. Now it's that much more difficult. And the reason why I'm telling you, right, that right now you can't go back and change anything. Right. The reason why I'm telling you this is for when it happens again. I don't mean to sound like doom and gloom here, but we are gonna, all of us, we're gonna get injury, we're gonna pull muscles, we're gonna get sick. Things are gonna happen. I think something that's important is recognizing the things that I really like to do. I can't do. What can I do indoors? And how can I get a program that is gonna hold me accountable? So it's one of those things where if you know at 30 minutes you're getting completely bored and you're losing focus on the program, then I would design for you a 20 or 25 minute program. Right? So I think having a program and completing what you need to complete on that program, but leaving where you're still hungry and still wanting to continue is a lost start. A lot of us go into the gym or we go to do a run and we do it till we're dead exhausted. And then we do that the next day and the next day and then out of nowhere you're losing motivation because you're just tired. What that's why I like programs is programs are going to hold you accountable. Oh my God, that's it. But I could keep going. That's fine. Go have a good meal, take a shower, get a good night rest. And you know what? Tomorrow we're going to go back and do day two. So I don't never want to exhaust you to the point where you're suddenly a few days in losing motivation. It's why New Year's resolutions, I believe a lot of them don't work, is that, oh, I'm going to go, I'm going to give up desserts and I'm going to train every day and I'm going to not drink alcohol. And then suddenly two weeks in, someone decides to go and do that and then they gain a couple of pounds back and they're like, what's the point where if they just didn't remove those things and allow themselves to sprinkle it in as a reward, you could still not have to give up those things and still progress and still feel good about what you're doing. That's kind of my wish for you. That's how I would want you to go about approaching it and not feel like that you have to destroy yourself every session. Maybe one session on a, on a Tuesday might be just going in and doing some Airdyne bike for 20 minutes. Right? Or, you know, maybe another day might just be going in and doing some lower body work and getting out of there. It doesn't always have to be where you completely demolish yourself. So kick it back to you.

[Evie Pompous]

I think you need to ditch the gym in your house and you need to go to a gym gym because psychologically you're going to do better. When you go to the gym, you're going to be more motivated. So I say this with all the humbleness. Drag your ass out, sign up for a gym, go there, ditch the gym at home. Because that's the, that's the big. That's a big problem. It's a psychological thing. Go around other. You need to be around other people who are doing it, but by yourself, especially when you're in this funk. Like, you can't. You. You can't. You need to be. I would go pay the membership. That's what I would do. 100% will make. Even on the psychological level, it will make a big difference for you.

[C]

Cool. Yeah, that sounds great.

[Don Saladino]

Awesome. Good luck.

[Evie Pompous]

Bye.

[C]

Thank you.

[Don Saladino]

I like that. I like that advice because I love. Like sometimes you're right. Like certain people at home, he can't be doing. No, he can't be home. It looks like he works from home also. Like, you see all of his.

[Evie Pompous]

He needs to. Yes, he, he needs. He needs people around him. He needs that.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah, he needs that. And I.

[Evie Pompous]

Doing it alone at home, like it.

[Don Saladino]

Takes a certain individual. Yeah. Yes, I know. Evie, I'm always grateful. Right, for your time. I mean you've. It's so funny about life because you, you meet someone, you never expect things to go a certain way and it goes. And now, you know, you and Des are like family to Mel and I and we love you and just taking your time out of your day with your business, your family and coming into the city and meeting us at the post, which, by the way, I'm super grateful for. They've. They've created an incredible facility where they're hosting a lot of ex athletes who are now become business people and, and they've just offered us this podcast studio and it's absolutely phenomenal. So thank you to the, to the post. But again, I'm sure we'll, you know, we, you and I got a lot more to do, so. Thank you.

[Evie Pompous]

Thank you. Like, this is great and I know you're going to do amazing with this. Like people, you're a voice people need to have in their head. So thank you.

[Don Saladino]

The views, information or opinions expressed in.

[Evie Pompous]

The series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Chip and Joanna Gaines by now Audio nor Magnolia.