← Stronger with Don Saladino
Stronger with Don Saladino
Training for Real Life: Lessons from Three Elite Performance Coaches Derek Hansen, Veronica Zuccala, and Andrew Hauser
00:29:50
Loading summary
Transcript90 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:06]
B
Welcome to Stronger. Today I'm joined by three coaches who spent years helping athletes and everyday people improve performance, build consistency and navigate long term behavior change. Derek Hansen, Veronica Zucala and Andrew Hauser. I want to talk about something I think a lot of people are searching for. A way of training that actually fits into their lives. The best training system is the one that looks the most impressive online. It's the one you can stay consistent with and still believe in six months from now. But first, I have to introduce to you my panel. We're going to start my man, Derek Hansen. Derek is one of the most respected minds in speed and development, running mechanics and athletic performance. Over the years, he's worked with elite athletes across multiple professional sports, including the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB and more. My brother from Vancouver, Derek. Welcome, buddy.
- [00:58]
C
Thank you, Don.
- [00:59]
B
Next up, Veronica Zucala. Veronica is a neuroscience and psychology driven performance coach with prescript. Everyone knows Prescript through my buddy, Dr. Jordan Shallow. She uses principles such as neuroplasticity, stress physiology and cognitive development to improve how people move and learn. Veronica, I'm so psyched to connect with you finally. This is great.
- [01:20]
A
Thank you. Super pumped to be here.
- [01:21]
B
Awesome. And now joining us, Andrew Hauser. Andrew is a leader in manual therapy, rehab and the training space for professional sports. He previously oversaw the rehab department for the Los Angeles Dodgers and the performance and medical departments for the Atlanta Braves before starting Continuum High Performance Continuum is a state of the art performance facility in Arizona that supports elite level training, rehab and recovery. So some pretty good teams right there. Andrew. The. Especially the Dodgers. As a New York fan, I don't love you so much, but hey, good for you.
- [01:53]
D
Hey, you know what the. Well, I take it you're probably a Yankees fan, but.
- [01:58]
B
No, I'm a Met fan, which I'm kind of don't even want to admit right now. So I was going to say you
- [02:04]
D
could feel the hatred when we were in Atlanta. You could feel the hatred when you go in to play the Mets. So that was, that was always a good rivalry. Those were fun series.
- [02:13]
B
Met fans are just, they, they just are. I think they're just better people because we just are so used to getting kicked in the face and we just have developed this level of resilience and you know, hopefully we win one day. It's been about 40 years, I think. Exactly. So here's. I'm not gonna get too far off topic. You have me talking about baseball. We are, we are in trouble. So here's the question. If you're creating the ideal Training system for the general population, how would you structure the week? And I don't mean that by exercises. I want to learn about your system, your template. When you're going in, what is it you actually do? We're going to start with Andrew. You're up first, which is always the hardest, because you're the one who's like, he doesn't have a lot of time to think about this. So I'm dragging it on right now.
- [02:53]
C
We can see all those mistakes.
- [02:55]
B
Exactly. And then you guys can think about it. But everyone's going to have to start first. So Andrew, you're up first. If you were creating the ideal training system for the general population, how would you structure the week? Let's go.
- [03:06]
D
Yep. So, and this is how I like, I, I do it with pro athletes too. Like, we usually train four days a week. I'm a firm believer in, like, everything's total body and why I say that One of the hardest adaptations I think for healthy athletes even to have is the ability to move, like energy efficiently from their upper body to lower body. So spend a lot of times on like just filling general movement buckets. So, like, Derek and I have talked a lot about GPP work and building out a bigger, like, physiology profile. Like, hey, can you, can they use energy efficiently and then can they deliver energy efficiently? That starts to get into more like zone 2 type stuff. But again, there's. I always just have a clear intent of like, using energy, spiking their nervous system. And then like, how do I continue to move and recover throughout the week so I can continue to train? More and more I go about it, just more from a physiological perspective.
- [04:07]
B
I love it. So, Derek, you're up next. 60 seconds.
- [04:09]
C
Oh, geez. Well, because I come from a running background, I do lean a lot on my running drills and just use them to screen movement and see where people are at. And then from there it's easy to prescribe other things, but getting them to move, seeing what kind of work capacity they have, again, just like Andrew said, like, what type of energy can they display? And then prescribing from there and just building, building, building. I'm trying to build up a pretty broad movement vocabulary and exercise toolbox, I think. And then the more we can kind of build that out, the more we can draw from it, the further we get into the program and start building intensity and volume over those different exercises. So that's, that's really. I'm, you know, I'm trying to get a lot of things done. Just like Andrew Said and be selective in terms of how I progress everything, just so that we have no missteps along the way.
- [05:07]
B
Veronica.
- [05:09]
A
Well, thanks for letting me go last. All right. I would go based off if it was just your average person, if they had the ability to a nice five day split. Monday, Wednesday, Friday would be weight training, full body workouts and it'd be built based around skill acquisition. So earlier in the workout it's more of the cognitive work that requires them to think a little bit more while they're moving more of that stability work. As you move through the workout, it becomes more associative, autonomous. So by the end of that weight session, it's a lot of just output. And if it's full body, I'm probably splitting up muscle groups as we go. Maybe the Monday cognitive work is more lower body. By Friday the cognitive work's more upper body. That way we have a nice split across the week so it's not too demanding. And then that Tuesday, Thursday, lots of output for cardio in whatever capacity that individual can handle based on their goals. And then that way it gives people the ability to have that freedom. I train a lot of athletes to be prepped for game day at the end of the week. So for your average person, I want you to be prepped for the weekend so you can enjoy that time with your family and be active and be social and have the energy for it.
- [06:08]
B
Love that, by the way. 3. 3. A lot of similarities in each answer. But you also gave me something a little bit different. How many do all three of you implement sprinting into your programming? I know Derek does, but Andrew and Veronica, what percentage of client do you work with where you actually have them sprint? And I'm asking this for a reason.
- [06:30]
D
I'll tell you after 100%.
- [06:34]
B
No.
- [06:34]
D
Yeah, everybody, we're always going to be sprinting and even like, even if they can't sprint at that time, I see a lot of athletes that are coming off an injury, we're moving fast. So again, whether that's in the weight room or like we're moving fast on the bike, we're. I use this thing called the hockey edge a lot. Same thing, moving fast on that. So I just think that's an adaptation like that we need to get going quickly moving. Derek actually said something, this is like a decade ago talking about the response of the brain and how quickly like that rhythm, tempo and timing that we need from sprinting and not getting that. So that always stuck with me. And so I'm always trying to emulate that as quickly as I can following an injury, whether it's sprinting or not.
- [07:22]
B
Veronica, is your goal always to get someone to try and sprint? I mean, you work with these athletes, but we're talking GPP here, right? So is the goal, you know, someone's been at a desk for the last 20, 30 years. They, you know, you got to start developing that level of movement, competency and take into consideration that you just have. They're not the athlete they were in high school. Right. But is the goal in the back of your head that you want them moving like that, or do you sometimes with clientele just say, I'm keeping you away from, you know, doing some sprint work?
- [07:49]
A
I definitely don't keep them away from it. I think what I geared towards is building qualities around sprinting. So for my athletes, they sprint, they run, and then for, like, I have a client who's 72 and she. Her hips are so bad that she has to sit on a box our whole session. But you know what we do? I make her hold a sprinter, pose for an ISO for as long as she can. And we do a lot of work for her calf, for her Achilles. You know, her joints take on a lot of force when she's walking around with her walker day to day for the duration that she can walk. And so we still build qualities that exist within sprinting because it's important. Sprinting is the most extreme form of gait cycle. So if people are able to execute gait cycle to. Is extreme to the best of their ability, they're going to be a lot more mobile and independent for a long time. So I do think that's important to incorporate in anyone's program.
- [08:35]
B
Derek, it's funny because, you know, she just mentioned the word building qualities, which. The words building qualities, which I love like most. That's the difference between strength coaches and a lot of trainers. Trainers aren't always thinking about building those qualities. I find strength coaches do very intelligent. She said she can't sprint this. This woman who's in her 70s, but I'm still focusing on those qualities. Why she wants to develop that level of resilience in her body so she doesn't lose those qualities. People come to you to sprint, but, you know, how often are you completely rebuilding the way someone moves to get them to sprint when they're coming to you, you know what I'm saying? A client's coming in going, I want to sprint. You're looking at them going, holy. You're nowhere close to being ready to sprint. What's that look like for you?
- [09:18]
C
Yeah, well, a lot of people haven't been taught properly or taught at all like you'll have. There's been world class athletes in different sports and I'm like, did anybody teach you how to run? No. And in baseball that's, that's, you know, you got to be able to hit a ball and throw a ball. So that's the selection criteria. And then if you can run, that's pretty good. But nobody's really taught them how to run. And I know Andrew and I have worked in, in collaboration and we're kind of amazed at how people can excel without being taught how to do these things properly. So obviously there's a natural selection component to it. Obviously there's things that are just inherently part of, you know, athletic performance that are going to be there. But in terms of keeping people healthy, that's, that's usually where I come in, is people get injured and then I have to re, basically recalibrate everything and teach them, okay, this is what you know, you're supposed to do. I've dealt with world record holders in the hundred meters that haven't been taught very basic things. So it's quite interesting how people will still have the ability to succeed or get to a certain point, but then at some point it does break down and you have to kind of bring them back to the baseline and go, okay, this is your right arm, this is your left arm. And do do very basic things like that. So I'm never shocked at sort of this, I guess, you know, this lack of preparedness that a lot of people have. They just might have this natural ability or a natural inclination in their sport and they just run with it and by all means do that. But at some point you want to make sure that you're going to be resilient as well. And that includes a lot of these motor programming issues and teaching them things that they may not have ever thought of or have been introduced to. So I always find it interesting.
- [11:10]
B
This episode of Stronger is brought to you by our friends at Timeline, the makers of MIT appear a supplement I've been taking now for about three years. For decades, the gold standard of supplements for muscle performance have been protein and creatine. But there is another piece of the puzzle most people overlook. Your cellular energy. At the center of that system are your mitochondria, the tiny energy factories inside your cells. And, and MIT Pure is the best supplement that I found that provides more efficient energy production in your cells. Every step you take, every weight you lift every muscle. Contraction depends on your mitochondrial energy. Which Might Appear was designed to enhance. Timeline's clinically proven formula is now available at a new lower price. Might appear now starts at $79. When you go to timeline.com stronger. That's timeline.com stronger for 20% off your order. Thanks, guys. So as, as a client becomes more educated, there's more noise and more things they think they need to work on. But often the best programs are the simplest, right? Like I've noticed in my own program design. And now, you know, it might be, you know, some movement prep, might be some reactive work. And then I'm getting to four or five movements that I'm really putting a lot of emphasis into. So how do you keep a program focused and effective? You've got so many people coming to you right now that are saying, well, I read this and write read that and social media becomes a big problem. So we're going to start with Andrew.
- [12:34]
D
I'm ready.
- [12:35]
B
Let's do it.
- [12:35]
D
Go with it. All right. All right. You know what? Like, I'm a firm believer in like, if we have an intent, like Rome is our end goal. Million different ways to get there. So as long as I have that, great. You want to, do you want to squat? Like, we'll figure out a way for you to squat. You want a split squat, you want like all within reason. Like I, my program has become more and more basic over the years. Like, I've probably gone back to even more like Verkhoshansky and like stuff Ver Gambetta was. I do a ton of like circuits like Vergam Betta did. And it's, for me it is, it's just getting people like moving in a lot of like a variety of directions. And then what's our intent for the day? If we're being explosive? Like, hey, we can put an explosive twist on that. I usually have a little bit more like single leg early in the week to stimulate their nervous system more and multi directional stuff. And then as they get fatigued throughout the week, things get more. They don't have to think.
- [13:33]
B
All right, Derek, take it.
- [13:35]
C
Well, I mean, I don't think of it as exercises, honestly. I think of. Sometimes I think of upper lower splits, sometimes I think of high intensity versus low intensity. Sometimes I think of complex movements versus simple movements. But you know, I'm just trying to get all of those things covered off. And a lot of the time it'll be environmental. Like what space do I have? What equipment do I have? What are they used to. What can they do? I'm not going to use Olympic lifts with somebody who has, you know, no history with that. And so there's a lot of contextual things that I'm surveying as part of that first session and what their competency level is. So I'm really trying to keep it very general and simple in my approach so that it's easier to do those exercise selections.
- [14:23]
A
Veronica, I think it's interesting what our phones and social media and the Internet have presented us is a culture where it's almost like people will reward novelty over mastery. And so what I try and do with clients, whether athlete or non athlete, is I keep the main thing. The main thing. So that portion of the workout that I have the intention of progressing through a block of training is going to stay consistent and then to kind of combat some of the noise that people come in and wanting to try different things and wanting a stimulus to be novel and wanting to feel like they worked hard is I'll play around with warmups and accessories to give people a bit of novelty there while still challenging them in different positions. And then the main thing is the main thing. So that main part of the workout I want to progress over however long 4, 6, 8, 10 week block that's always consistent in there and then sprinkle in what they want. So give them what they want and also make sure I have what I know they need.
- [15:20]
B
Veronica, you actually read my mind there. I was going to bring up, in other words, novelty over mastery. Do you think? And I'd like to lead off with you, people are putting too much emphasis into training splits when it really just needs to be focusing on good quality movements and whether it's upper, lower, whether it's push, pull, legs, whether it's full bodies. I mean, yes, there's many ways to skin a cat, but I think the general population is so obsessed over what is the perfect training split.
- [15:49]
A
Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. So I had a client who, she gave me a beautiful review a couple years ago. She's still with me. She's been training with me for eight years straight now. And she gave me a review a few years ago and said, I've done over 200 workouts with Veronica and every single one of those has been different. And I kind of laughed because I was like, we've been doing the same thing for four years. I've just, I've changed a grip, I've changed a handle. Like we, again, we make it a little bit novel because that's what people feel like they need. They emphasize that we know that we've seen that everybody's attention spans drop over time. And so when we're able to sprinkle that in and make them feel like it's novel even when it's not, I think it still holds true in terms of progression for the client over time.
- [16:32]
B
It's very smart. Give them a lot of what they want while you're doing a bunch of what you want. Right. It's like, make them think that they're doing something. That's. I. I think that's brilliant coaching right there. Let's kick that over to Andrew. Now. What's your. What's your opinion? Novelty over mastery. Are we putting too much emphasis into training sports?
- [16:47]
D
Well, I was going to say that's. I mean, that is the art of coaching at the end of the day to. To piggyback off what Veronica said. It is. It's. It's getting creative with how they execute the movement, but the movement doesn't. Doesn't really change at the end of the day. Like, you have. That's what I. More or less what I'm saying. When, when you have an intent,
- [17:13]
A
as
- [17:14]
D
long as you have the clarity of that move of, like, what the end goal is, the. You can make it look as sexy as you want, but, like, the, the meat and potatoes of it should always be getting accomplished. And I think that is. That's some of the difficulty also on being on the private side compared to the team side of, like, they're even like the professional athletes. They are searching for novelty because they spend all day on Instagram or TikTok. So it is. It's like being able to put those things in, but, like, without them really realizing what the true intent is.
- [17:48]
B
But, you know, I get it. I get it. Derek, thoughts?
- [17:53]
C
Yeah. I keep things purposely extremely boring on the training side and just manipulate, you know, very, very simple variables. Like, I was talking to somebody about, you know, you can run 100 meters, or you could run 10 tens, or you can run five twenties, or you can run two fifties or whatever. And you're. There's a different effect from each of those things, but it's 100 meters. So I think I'll be manipulating those types of qualities all the time, even though it's kind of the same thing. And I just try to tell funny stories while we're waiting in between reps and, you know, engage in quality conversation. And that seems to drive the workout more than the actual exercise itself, like, in terms of their enthusiasm, but they don't have to be enthusiastic about the work. They just have to know they're getting better. So that's, you know, and they do. So at the end of the day,
- [18:47]
D
I try to turn every session into a Seinfeld episode.
- [18:49]
C
There you go. There you go.
- [18:52]
B
But that's, but that's good coaching. I mean, that's what coaching's about. I think sometimes we get so fixated on, you know, what's optimal. Like, people use the word optimal with me, and I'm like, you don't want optimal. Like, you want, you want to get your body composition to an optimal point. Like, do you know what that takes? Like, do you want to, you want to train optimally all the time. I don't think people are fully, they fully understand what it is they want. Now, when you guys are working with Olympic athletes or professional athletes, different story, right? But we're talking about general pop here. I mean, mostly everyone we work with, from a general pop standpoint, they want the same things. They want high levels of energy. They want to look better naked. They want to sleep better, they want to feel better, they want to move better. And I think a little bit of that entertainment effect, there is a way to keep things interesting while you're still doing a lot of what you want as the coach and still giving them that variability. I, I, I, I, I think that's good coaching. And I loved all three of you. I think gave the very similar answer of, you know, the warmup might change, but the crux of the workout might be those specific things. Derek said a little bit of variability in how he would structure the same thing. I mean, if you look at my programs over the last, you know, 10 years, it's, yes, I dress it up differently. Push, pull, legs, upper, lower. But if you look at the programming, it is very similar on my progressions and how I like to approach things. I like keeping things simple. We're going to go into something right now called an unlightening round. This is for people who can't land the plane. Meaning people just like that. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Not you guys. We're going to not put a clock on this. Give you around 20 seconds to answer as quickly as possible. We're going to keep the exact same order. Andrew, you're up first. Favorite way to recover.
- [20:29]
D
Oh, love that. Either the pool or I use a lot of respiratory stuff. Like I use this breathing bag called the Breathe Way better or just getting out in the sun.
- [20:39]
B
Is that similar to the isocapnic bag, Derek?
- [20:42]
D
Yeah, same bag.
- [20:43]
B
Love it, Love it. Been using it. Derek, favorite way to recover,
- [20:48]
C
Moving, doing something. Like, I'm not a passive recovery person. So like Andrew said, if you can get them in the pool and unload them somehow, but they're still moving. Yeah. So. And I unfortunately I tend to get people to do some sort of running, but, you know, that's what I do.
- [21:04]
B
Your wife gets you to do all that distance running that you love so much? Is that what it is?
- [21:07]
C
Oh, I hate it.
- [21:08]
B
Yeah.
- [21:08]
A
No.
- [21:09]
B
Veronica, what's your favorite way to recover?
- [21:13]
A
I love just being around my people, hanging out with friends, family, like being like, we can still be moving, be active, but kind of remove myself from what my Twitter 24 hour run at the gym looks like day to day when I'm working and then working out. So I just love being around my people. Gives me energy back. I feel great. And then I feel like I can go into my next workout, next session with a client. Fresh.
- [21:32]
B
Love it. Love it. What's your biggest. Andrew, we're starting with you again. What is your biggest coaching pet peeve? Oh, could be anything.
- [21:42]
D
That's a tough one. In 20 seconds.
- [21:46]
B
There's so many.
- [21:48]
D
You know what? I think not. Or like feeding into the person they're working with and like not keeping them on point and like letting the client essentially run the session rather than. Than you help train them and that's the first thing that came to mind.
- [22:07]
B
Yeah. No, and that's what I want. I want you think later on you're going to think of it and you're going to blurt it out. That's fine. Also, Derek, biggest coaching pet peeve over queuing.
- [22:16]
C
Just shut up and watch. Right? Watch what they're doing. Yeah. Like there's I was at the track and there's this person coaching and the kids are running by, sprinting by and she's like, open up, open up, open up. And I'm like, what does that mean? Like, you know, tell us your story. Like, yeah. So yeah, over. Over coaching.
- [22:36]
A
Veronica, coaches, body language. It just doesn't look like you're having fun or you don't want to be there. Like, what are you doing?
- [22:45]
B
You know what, throwing mine in there. I'd probably say coaches on their phones and not for looking at the program right now. You know, if they're looking at the program and you know if they're texting someone in their mind somewhere else. Stay with the client. Stop that. What's the hill you're willing to die on when it comes to training clients? What is something that maybe just hasn't changed and you are a stickler for. Um, could be over your whole career. It could be something that someone's convincing you to veer off of. But what is. What's a hill you're willing to die on when it comes to training clients? Andrew.
- [23:18]
D
Yeah, I honestly think just doing basics.
- [23:21]
B
Yeah.
- [23:22]
D
Like, it gets. It's the boring stuff. That's the stuff that I think ends up paying the biggest dividends that nobody really likes to do. But yeah, it's selling the basics back to your client, I think is the. That's a big driver of my program.
- [23:38]
B
Love it. Derek.
- [23:40]
C
Volume. You need volume. And there's all these people talking about recovery, not us, but, you know, like, you got to do less, you got to load, manage. And like Michael Jordan didn't take a game off, man. So they need volume, like, and people are shying away from it and getting, you know, way too light and too easy on these things.
- [24:03]
B
Interesting. Didn't expect you to say that, but I. But I.
- [24:05]
C
Well, there's different systems that you can hit. Right. But you don't have to do the same thing all the time. But you definitely need volume.
- [24:11]
B
Yeah.
- [24:12]
D
Interesting.
- [24:12]
B
Veronica.
- [24:14]
A
I guess mine kind of goes with Derek's or piggybacks at least, but load is king. Load it. Load it up as heavy as you can. Movement quality obviously has to be there. We're not going to be dumb about it, but we're going to learn faster. We're going to build skill faster, we're going to build muscle faster by loading movements, not just by sandbagging everything as we go.
- [24:31]
B
We get in that a little bit. On one of the later episodes, I was ready to dive in and I'm going to hold off because I don't want to let the cat out of the bag, really. But let's go with what's one thing people are underestimating when it comes to results.
- [24:45]
D
Andrew Honestly, I think the power of the respiratory system and being able to just change. I look at it like it's the temperature gauge of our whole system. So, like, it responds to every stressor in our life and it's a skill that people aren't appreciating as a skill
- [25:07]
B
and not really working on either. Right. I mean, they think they're working on it when they're just running. But like you mentioned that breathing bag earlier. There's so many other tools and techniques that you could utilize to improve that,
- [25:18]
D
and that's general health. And like, I mean, we use it for a lot of orthopedic issues as well.
- [25:23]
B
I love it, Derek.
- [25:26]
C
Putting people in a position to succeed, and. And there's different ways of doing that, but that's what I. Even in my rehab, stuff that I've done, one of my recent ones, it's just giving them work that they can succeed at. Now, that may be a challenge in some regards, or it might. It's not always easy, but you're. You're putting them in a place where they can succeed, so that from a confidence point of view and even just from a psychological point of view, they feel like they're improving. And there's just little ways to create those little wins. But I think I'm constantly thinking about what can I do in this situation? And it may not be telling them what their running time was. It might be complimenting them on something else or some other quality. But it's very easy to tell people they're not doing well. But if you can find a way to tell them that they're succeeding, I think it really helps.
- [26:19]
D
Awesome.
- [26:19]
B
Veronica.
- [26:21]
A
I think it's important to understand that the decisions you make outside of the gym are going to impact your results in the gym. I think people have a hard time wrapping their mind around that when they hire a coach or a trainer for the first time. I think part of them just expects things to get better and to get fixed and for them to get results. But you're outside of the gym a lot longer than you're inside the gym. And so knowing that your decisions will impact that, I think is really powerful for people if they can get it, to click early.
- [26:46]
B
Well, guys, great, great answers there. That was a quick segment. I absolutely love it. Thank you for being here. Be sure to subscribe to the stronger podcast on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast quickly. Andrew, if I want to go around the horn here, where could someone find you if they want to learn more about what it is that you're doing? Let's start with your social media handles and we'll take it to Derek then.
- [27:05]
D
Veronica, I could tell you my. My Instagram, I think it's Hauser, like underscore at.
- [27:14]
B
I love it. I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. Go back to old school, I always say, you know, sometimes I love social media but have been burned up. We got to just rely on whatever it is. Yeah, exactly. Email me. Just Google him, Derek.
- [27:28]
C
Yeah. Sprintcoach.com and runningmechanics.com and then hopefully you can find my Instagram from there.
- [27:35]
B
Perfect.
- [27:36]
A
Veronica, first name straight through last name. So Veronica Zucalla Z U C C A L A. That's my Instagram. I almost exclusively use Instagram for work related stuff and otherwise once in a while I post me and my friends or family related things. So I'm not a robot. But yeah, I love it.
- [27:52]
B
Well, we will, we will make sure that we put up all your handles. We'll, we'll look and find Andrew's and we'll put it up on the on the end of this episode. Guys, thanks for joining us. Looking forward to the next one.
- [28:07]
A
The views, information or opinions expressed in the series are solely those of the individuals involved in and do not necessarily represent those of Chip and Joanna Gaines by Nail Audio nor Magnolia.