Behind the Scenes Minis: Alaska and Contraceptives

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stuff You Missed in History Class – Behind the Scenes Minis: Alaska and Contraceptives

Hosts: Tracy V. Wilson & Holly Frey
Date: March 20, 2026
Podcast Network: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this "Behind the Scenes Minis" episode, Tracy and Holly reflect on their recent episodes covering Elizabeth Peratrovich and Alaska’s civil rights history, along with the history of the IUD and broader issues around contraceptives. They candidly discuss their research journeys, personal experiences, and the complexities of presenting vast historical and medical topics in a single episode. The conversation is informal, humorous, and insightful—offering listeners a look at the challenges and rewards of exploring underrepresented stories in history and healthcare.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Elizabeth Peratrovich, Alaska History, and Research Surprises

(03:35–13:20)

• Delayed Episode Timing:

  • Tracy laughs about not releasing the Elizabeth Peratrovich episode on Peratrovich Day, due to scheduling and personal circumstances.
  • "It's maybe a little silly that Elizabeth Peratrovich day caused me to do an episode weeks later. No. But you know, things happen." (03:39, Tracy)

• Research Insights and Media Influence:

  • Tracy watched an episode of “Molly of Denali” to inspire the historical topic; she muses about using kids’ shows as a source of ideas.
  • Both hosts enjoy children’s programming for comfort and humor. The exchange about “Pengu” and “Bluey” serves as comic relief.

• Complexity of Alaskan and Indigenous History:

  • Tracy expected a straightforward biography but found that laws and events in Alaska’s Indigenous history are much more complex than in the contiguous US, involving unique elements due to the Alaska Purchase and different legal frameworks.
  • "I did not fully appreciate how the history of Alaska is happening during the same time periods as we've talked about in the contiguous United States...I did not have an understanding of how much differently some of that was going on in Alaska." (06:03, Tracy)

• Challenges with Sources:

  • Tracy encountered contradictory or misleading sources, especially about Native citizenship post-Alaska Purchase and legislature makeup—a frequent research headache.

• Evolving Native Advocacy:

  • Both hosts discuss how the Alaska Native Brotherhood’s strategies have transformed over time, paralleling similar shifts in advocacy across the US.
  • "All of that changes over time. And this was one episode where it was possible to...reference some of those changes." (11:40, Tracy)
  • Holly gleefully coins the phrase “flippy dippy doo” to describe shifts in group positions, which becomes a running joke.

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2. History of the IUD and Personal Reproductive Health Experiences

(16:50–38:16)

• Tracy’s IUD Story (Personal Account):

  • Choosing a Non-Hormonal IUD:

    • Side effects and family history with breast cancer made the copper IUD preferable for Tracy.
    • "...every hormonal contraceptive I have ever been on caused me some unwanted side effect that made it not worth it." (17:02, Tracy)

  • Insertion and Pain Management Over Time:

    • Describes past and present practices: in 2012, misoprostol and OTC painkillers were used, and insertion was timed with menstruation for comfort and safety.
    • Her recent experience in Massachusetts involved a range of pain management options, from topical lidocaine to sedation, reflecting improved patient care and following current guidelines.
    • "That is my IUD insertion story and removal story." (24:33, Tracy)

  • Candid Reflections:

    • Tracy explains how office protocols and medical advice have shifted, advocates for patient empowerment and informed discussions with doctors.
    • "The current guide guidance is to offer more options than that and to have an informed discussion about it." (36:41, Tracy)

  • Memorable Anecdotes:

    • Medical anxiety, “body horror,” and references to 1980s IUD scandals (like the Dalkon Shield) generate both comic and serious commentary.
    • "That thing does not look like it would be comfortable to insert, even though it was flexible. I know what the device and the inserter look like. I'm like, this is the big...it looked like a crab..." (26:06, Tracy)

• Holly’s Perspective:

  • Shares her strong medical anxiety, which is more about future complications than procedural pain.
    • "It's that four weeks later when I'm home, I'm gonna be like, is it slowly killing me from the inside?...it's got its own flavor of flamboyant behavior that cannot be contained." (24:47, Holly)
  • Recounts how early media and anecdotes influenced her feelings about IUDs.

• Contraceptive History and Social Context:

  • Discusses the racial and eugenicist undertones in both advocacy for contraceptives globally and historical practice in the US—acknowledges nuances specific to IUDs.
    • "Some of the...population explosion discussions of the 1960s framed IUDs as a really good contraceptive method because of an underlying assumption that the people in poorer parts of the world...are clearly not smart enough to use other forms of contraception." (35:04, Tracy)
  • Mentions the difference between temporary birth control (IUDs) and sterilization promoted at the height of the eugenics movement.

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3. Body Horror, Anatomy, and Self-Discovery

(31:36–34:13)

• Defining 'Body Horror':

  • Holly and Tracy laugh about how differently they define “body horror,” highlighting their personal thresholds and quirks.
    • "I think you and I define body horror much differently...I got Lars von Trier in my brain. Nothing touches that." (31:40, Holly)
    • Tracy’s discomfort centers on historical pessaries and early IUD designs.

• Misconceptions About Anatomy:

  • Tracy recounts the surprise of learning she misunderstood cervical structure despite her IUD experience, leading Holly to reassure her it’s normal not to know internal anatomy details.
    • "We don't know what's going on in there. It's not our jobs." (33:54, Holly)

• Wild Animal Reproductive Facts:

  • Tracy’s deep dive into camel reproduction, prompted by a historical IUD story, is both amusing and a testament to the strange turns research can take.

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4. Empowerment and Medical Advocacy

(36:09–37:16)

• Tracy urges listeners to advocate for themselves, emphasizing that modern guidelines support tailored pain management and honest doctor-patient discussion.

  • "I do really want anybody listening to feel empowered to at least talk to their doctor...and to have an informed discussion about it." (36:09, Tracy)

• Holly delivers a humorous story about having a sterilization procedure and the comedic aftermath, further normalizing candid, real-life talk about reproductive health.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Why is this going on? I'm glad this is not the first that I read because then I would have been abundantly confused." (10:42, Tracy – on source discrepancies)
• "Similar. Flippy dippy doo." (12:31, Holly – describing changing organizational positions)
• "That was never an option for me...My medical anxiety does not care about your logic..." (25:04, Holly)
• "If your doctor is like, 'Oh, you'll be fine. Just take some Advil.' No, the current guidelines is to offer more options than that." (36:09, Tracy)
• "We're barely keeping Tracy in the chair today." (38:45, Holly – as Tracy is eager for springtime weather after a long winter)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:35: Start of Elizabeth Peratrovich & Alaska discussion
• 06:03: Tracy discusses expectations vs. complexities of Alaska history
• 09:46: Difficulties with historical sources
• 11:21: Alaska Native advocacy’s evolution
• 12:31: “Flippy dippy doo” organizational shifts
• 16:50: Start of IUD/personal reproductive health discussion
• 17:00: Tracy’s IUD journey – decision and experience
• 22:06: Discussion of pain management options
• 24:33: Post-removal reflections and Holly’s medical anxiety
• 26:06: Dalkon Shield and IUD “body horror”
• 31:36: “Body horror” perceptions and anatomy surprises
• 35:04: Eugenics, IUDs, and social context
• 36:09: Empowerment and advocacy for better care
• 37:04: Holly’s post-sterilization anecdote
• 38:45: Episode wrap-up, weather update, positive wishes

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Conclusion

This behind-the-scenes episode illustrates the hosts’ ongoing commitment to thorough, honest storytelling in history and health. They blend candid personal experiences with the thorough research they bring to each episode, providing insight, comfort, and encouragement to listeners to question, explore, and advocate for themselves—whether in understanding history or making personal medical choices.

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For more engaging history explorations and behind-the-scenes banter, visit Stuff You Missed in History Class on iHeartPodcasts or your favorite podcast app!

Transcript

[Tracy P. Wilson]

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[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy P. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

This week we talked about Elizabeth Peratrovich.

[Holly Fry]

Sure did.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

It's maybe a little silly that Elizabeth Peratrovich day caused me to do an episode weeks later. No. But you know, things happen.

[Holly Fry]

Well, especially the way our schedule's been lately. Like I was out for a week and then I'm sick and juggled our schedule around. Like, no, it's just. No silly at all.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah. An episode on Elizabeth Paratrovich gave me the opportunity to watch some more Molly of Denali. Because there is a Molly of Denali episode called Molly and Elizabeth, in which Molly well, first there is an incident. I don't want to tell the whole plot of the episode, but there's an incident. And then afterward, Molly is talking to a relative who is talking about like how if she had been there, she would have given those guys who were pretty thoughtless and offensive a stern talking to. And then Molly finds out that this relative, who I think is maybe her aunt. Her aunt, I think, if I'm remembering correctly, saw Elizabeth Peratrovich when she was a very young girl. And it's very sweet, as so many episodes of Molly of Denali are. And I'm like, should I just watch Molly of Denali to find episode topics for the podcast? Maybe.

[Holly Fry]

Maybe just for pure enjoyment.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

I mean, yeah, it's a very sweet show, I find.

[Holly Fry]

I watch a lot of kids shows just for pure enjoyment.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Have I ever told you about. You know what, I'm going to sidetrack us on kids shows for a moment.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

For the comedy of it. You know Pengu, right?

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Uh huh.

[Holly Fry]

When I was working for Many, many years as an acquisition specialist at a university library. One of my work study assistants one year was this absolutely beautiful Danish young woman who I loved. And she was very funny. But, like, when I. We had first met her and I was like, ooh, I watched this kids show and she literally looked at me and went, holly, it's for children. And I was like, yeah, I know. And she goes like, tiny, tiny children. Like, she was basically like, you watch entertainment for two year olds. And I'm like, girl, yes, that's what I'm saying. I understand.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. There are some children's shows that are really great.

[Holly Fry]

Listen, give me that bluey. When I need a good cry, give me it.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

So when I started working on this episode, I was expecting just a very straightforward biography of Elizabeth Perotrovich. And this is about the anti discrimination law in Alaska, which predated the Civil Rights act that had so many similar provisions regarding all of the public accommodations that people should be able to access regardless of their race. Like, really similar. 20 years, ish. Before, I did not fully appreciate how the history of Alaska is happening during the same time periods as we've talked about in the contiguous United States. A lot of Indigenous history we have talked about in the contiguous United States. And there are so many things that we've talked about in other episodes about indigenous people from like, the lower 48 that just are very different trajectory from Alaska because of the Alaska Purchase Treaty and the fact that there weren't any treaties with any of the indigenous or native peoples there, of which, as we said, there are at least 11 very different cultures within the Alaska Native population. I didn't realize that I was gonna need basically a primer on sort of federal Native policy in Alaska.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

And I still felt like we had to skip over big parts of it just to try to give a sense of what all was happening and what was going on. Even though we've talked about the same time periods and in some cases the same laws in other parts of the United States, I just, like, I did not have an understanding of how much differently some of that was going on in Alaska. Was not prepared for it, was not prepared to have to research it, was not prepared to have to write it, was not expecting that when I got into it. And then some of the things that, like, were obviously a law can't fix discrimination.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

It doesn't, like, repair everything. It did mean, though, that if, you know, someone was barred from an accommodation, there was something that could potentially be done about it.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

In terms of like, making sure the law was followed. But it also meant that there was a lot of other stuff happening in Alaska that was specific to Alaska that the law did not have anything to do with. That had to do with the rights of the native peoples of Alaska. So it's just like, there's just a whole world of that that we did not really get into at all. That would be, again, just like a whole. Like a whole series of podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. I mean, it speaks to, like, this. This aspect of U.S. history where one, like, the U.S. obviously is a very vast place. Right. But two, like, because Alaska exists at a remove from the contiguous 48.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And Hawaii, similarly. I feel like for a lot of us growing up, like, we don't get the context of where they are when we're talking about other big social or political movements throughout our country. It's like they're just not even included in conversation.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. I also found a lot of details in writing about what was happening legally and in relation to, like, creating a government for Alaska and that kind of stuff. Stuff where just details would be super different. It took me a long time to figure out exactly what I think was going on with the reapportionment of the Alaska Territorial Legislature.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, yeah.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Because I found multiple different ways that was phrased that meant different things. Multiple years cited as when it happens, and between, like, 1842 and 1844, multiple ways of describing exactly what the steps were. I think I arrived hopefully at the correct answer. But, like, it just. I was like, why? Why are so many different sources saying this completely differently? And then I found there was one source in particular that made it sound as though when the United States was purchased Alaska from Russia, all of the native peoples of Alaska, with one exception, were instantly citizens. And I was like, that, that's not true. You're a source I think would know what you're talking about, but I don't think that's right. And it doesn't align with what any of these other sources are saying.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

And I was like, what happened here?

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Why?

[Holly Fry]

Why? Why is this going on?

[Tracy P. Wilson]

I'm glad this is not the first that I read, because then I would have been abundantly confused.

[Holly Fry]

I had a similar thing happen recently when I was researching where. And it's less. It's less of a big thing, but it was like, a biographer of someone who is recognized as, like, one of the preeminent biographers of that person included just, like, a really wrong detail in, like, oh, yeah, their family makeup. And I was like, yeah, how is that? Is this just a typo that an editor didn't cat? Like, what. How does this happen?

[Tracy P. Wilson]

What happened here? Yeah, yeah. I also liked, even though it was a lot to try to explain in the scope of one episode, I liked being able to touch on how the advocacy of the Alaska Native brotherhood shifted over more than a century.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Which parallels native and indigenous advocacy in other parts of the United States over the last hundred years. Like, what people have been focused on, what people have thought was the right thing to do, what people have thought of as most important. Like, all of that changes over time. And this was one episode where it was possible to kind of look, reference some of those changes.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Which I think is important. Right. Because it is easy. I know we all want to, like, compartmentalize things and define them a little bit just as our way of parsing the world, but it can be easy to say this organization equals this and it's like, at what point on the timeline, like, they shift and they change.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are so many other examples of similar, similar evolutions with similar. With other groups, our own political parties.

[Holly Fry]

Right. Similar. Flippy dippy doo.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah. I'm gonna call it flippy dippy doo forever.

[Holly Fry]

Great.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

All right.

[Holly Fry]

That's like anytime someone reverses their position, you'll be like, flippy dippy doo.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Flippy dippy doo.

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[Tracy P. Wilson]

We talked a bit about the history of the IUD this week.

[Holly Fry]

Week. We sure did.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

I said I would talk about my own experience with IUD insertion, so I guess we'll start with that.

[Holly Fry]

Great.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

So I had an IUD for slightly longer than probably I should have. I wanted to get a non hormonal method of contraception for two reasons. One was every hormonal contraceptive I have ever been on caused me some unwanted side effect that made it not worth it.

[Holly Fry]

Yep.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

And my mom also was diagnosed with breast cancer in her 60s and she had one of the cancers that is treated with estrogen blockers. I was uncomfortable doing hormonal things after that experience.

[Holly Fry]

That's fair.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

And my.

[Holly Fry]

The.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

The GYN that I went to, who only did gynecology, she did not also do obstetric. Obstetrics was like, I don't think that it's actually a risk, but I understand your concerns and there's a totally viable alternative for you, which was a copper IUD.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

So this was in 2012.

[Holly Fry]

Okay.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

And here's what we did for pain management at the time. Some doctors used misoprostol as like an off label thing to try to soften the stiff cervix to make it easier. And so she prescribed that. That is one of the medications that's used in a medical abortion. So I was concerned about whether I was going to be able to get my prescription filled in Georgia or whether I might get hassled at the pharmacy. It was fine. I also took whatever over the counter medicine before. This doctor preferred to do insertions while someone is menstruating because of changes that happened to the cervix during that time. And also like an extra added likelihood that the patient is not pregnant. That did not work out for me for timing reasons. It just.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, that can be tricky for some people to time out.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

So my experience with that was not too bad. It was very fast. It was less uncomfortable than the time that I had a temporary crown replaced with the permanent crown without any pain management. Because that dentist felt like the pain of injecting you with Novocaine or whatever was worse than the pain of just swapping out the crown and then you have to deal with your mouth being numb. And I was like, okay, I see that reasoning, but can I sign a

[Holly Fry]

piece of paper and you go for it anyway? That would be.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

So I Would not say it was a comfortable experience, but it was not inordinately painful. I drove myself to the appointment. I drove myself to work directly afterward. I did leave work early because I was starting to have some cramping and that was mostly a. I want to get home in case this gets worse. I did not want to get into a situation where I felt like I was in enough pain that driving would have been dangerous.

[Umar Valderrama]

Yeah.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

I also one time had to have a trans vaginal ultrasound to make sure it was still where it was supposed to be. And that was way more invasive than. And the insertion was.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, yeah, they don't tell you that stuff.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

No. So years passed. I moved to Massachusetts, away from Georgia, where I had been when I had it inserted. And I had. My regular doctor was of the opinion that based on how old I was when I had it inserted, I did not need to remove it until menopause. I would basically be good. That doctor moved away and I got a new doctor. And when I got my physical, her team was not of the same opinion and suggested that I have a consult with a. With an obgyn, which I did. And this OBGYN was like, you can do it. But I would actually recommend removing it because of the, like the risk that as the device ages and it becomes less flexible, there is like a slightly increased risk of during removal, like part of it breaking off and then it becomes a bigger thing. So then we went to Morocco and then.

[Holly Fry]

Oh gosh, this was after. Recent. Recent.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah. So after coming back from Morocco, I went and got that done. We had a whole conversation about what to do after removing it because I am not yet menopausal. And ultimately I elected not to get another IUD because that felt like a lot and to use other methods. But when she said, here is what your options would be if you got another iud, she presented me, unsolicited on my part, with an assortment of pain management options. And the smallest one that they don't recommend misoprostol off label for this anymore. Like that it seems like it does not actually help. So like option number one was over the counter pain relief at home before you come in.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Option number two, prescription oral pain relief before you come in. Right. Next step, topical lidocaine applied to the cervix. Next step, paracervical block, which is injected. So like that comes with the discomfort of having injections done around your cervix. Next, sedative that would be like an anti anxiety medication that would require me to have Somebody else come to drive me to and from the appointment. And then last option would be to be put under the level of sedation that would be similar for like when you have a colonoscopy and you're not conscious. Yeah, that's what you're mean.

[Holly Fry]

You wake up every time.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

I did not wake up during my colonoscopy.

[Holly Fry]

Time for jokes.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

So if someone wanted that option, then it had to be done at a different office where there was a nurse anesthetist on staff. And like this doctor, this office does not have a nurse anesthetist. So this was like a buffet of pain management options that were just from my. Based on my experience. Like that's just how she works with all of her patients. All of her patients. We have the discussion of all of these pain. So then after that appointment, I told all of my friends about this OB GYN and all of the pain management that she had just like offered me. Because I had heard for the last however decade plus that they just don't do pain management for IUD insertion. And it wasn't until I started, I don't remember which specific Internet conversation there have been many made me go. I wish this was not how we were talking about this because I think it's. It's hurting people's health instead of helping, like empowering them to have. But I was like, oh, this is actually what the doctor did with me was pretty much in line with the current guidelines. And people who were just saying, just take some Advil before you come in. Like, that's not with the current guidelines. Also, when I went in to have it removed, I did have Patrick drive me just in case anything went wrong. And I felt like I needed to have him there to drive me home. And I was in and out of the doctor before he was done parking the car in the parking deck connected to the medical facility. So anyway, that is my, my IUD insertion story and removal story.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Never an option for me.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Uh huh.

[Holly Fry]

I do have pain fear. Although I know there are ways around it. My bigger thing, when people say medical anxiety, I don't think they understand what's going on with Holly Fry.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

Because my medical anxiety is not, oh, this procedure is gonna be uncomfortable. It's that four weeks later when I'm home, I'm gonna be like, is it slowly killing me from the inside? Like I have that flavor of medical anxiety. And I'm like, this is not an option.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

That is not something that an IUD is a concern with. But my medical Anxiety does not care about your logic or medical or scientific knowledge. It does its own thing. It's got its own flavor of flamboyant behavior that cannot be contained. Yeah. So that was never an option for me.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

No, it was the best option for me and I was overall really happy with it for the more than a decade.

[Holly Fry]

There is also, and I won't actually say what it is, there is a callback here that you have accidentally created. Do you remember when recently I was talking about how growing up I thought everybody read Jim Carroll. There's a gross IUD story in one of his books that probably also did not help me, but I think that's Jim Carroll. Hopefully I'm not misattributing, but yeah. Yeah.

[Commercial Announcer]

Well.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

And we are both of the age to have been around during the big ad campaign. Oh, all of the Dalkeon shields removed.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

That thing does not look like it would be comfortable to insert, even though it was flexible. I know what the device and the inserter look like. I'm like, this is the big. It's. Most of the IUDs today are basically like little T shapes. They go in in a straight line.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

And then the arms come out while it's in there. And like the Dowkhon shield was like a. It looked like a crab was like not something narrow or round. And I have heard that it was like really painful to have that inserted. But it also just looks scary. And if you put it on a six o' clock news background of like fiery death behind it. Which is how I remember the Daokan Shield publicity about go get this removed if you have one. It leaves an impression. Oh yeah. On you.

[Holly Fry]

I'm sure that's part of what informs like my medical anxiety about these things. Right. Is that even though I can read all of the up to the minute science on it and understand that intellectually my lizard brain goes, yeah, no.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

The doctor asked if I wanted to see it after it was removed and I was like, yeah, actually. And then she showed it to me and I was like, that is smaller than I thought it was.

[Holly Fry]

You can make a piece of jewelry out of it.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

This is not very big unless you're pregnant.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah.

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[Holly Fry]

I did have a bit of a chuckle when we started this episode.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I think you and I define body horror much differently.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

Because I'm like, none of this even comes close. Like, this is. Yeah, listen, I got Lars von Trier in my brain. Nothing touches that. Are you kidding me? And I like a little body horror. Lars on Trier can sometimes go too far for me. But, yeah, it just. I was like, oh, well, different levels.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah. It was specifically the, like, the intrauterine or the intrauterine pessaries that had coiled, springy stems and legs that popped out. Like, imagining those just. I felt that sympathetically in my own body.

[Holly Fry]

I think, too, there are different, specific things that will trigger different people's. Right.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Sure. None of that.

[Holly Fry]

So that bothers me. I literally got really excited once when we were in Disney World. I don't know if you've ever been on the little train that goes out to conservation station in Animal Kingdom where they have a lot of animals and they have a medical facility. We happened to get lucky, depending on your point of view, to be there when they were like, hey, if you're squeamish, don't go over there. We're removing a tumor from a goat in the surgery. And I was, like, running. I wanted to see that biz. I was very excited about it, but yet I will. The thought of, like, tearing muscle is very upsetting to me, so.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Oh, sure.

[Holly Fry]

It just depends. Different people have different stuff. But that made me chuckle a little bit.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

I was like, I felt really chagrined about my ignorance about how what? The cervix is actually structured like.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, I don't think you should. That's not unusual.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Well, I just sort of thought. I thought I knew how my own body worked in that way, having had an IUD and having, you know, as instructed, made sure that the strings were still there. And also, at one point, having looked at it through a speculum with a mirror, I was like, I know exactly what that looks like. And then I was like, oh, no, it does not look like I thought it looked.

[Holly Fry]

Here's what I hope will quell your embarrassment or chagrin.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

Could you draw me an accurate picture of your spleen right now?

[Tracy P. Wilson]

No.

[Holly Fry]

See? Definitely not. We don't know what's going on in there. It's not our jobs.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

It's not our jobs. Speaking of anatomy, I learned way too much about the physiology of camels and camel reproduction. Trying to figure out, is this stone story even possible?

[Holly Fry]

Plausible.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah, it is more plausible than I thought before I learned more things about camel reproduction. It's still like it. I've own, like, really trying to find other references to that. I only found it in. In connection to IUDs, and in one case, an article about pessaries specifically also mentioned it. Also, we did not. We mentioned connections between the birth control movement and the eugenics movement in the episode. We did not go into a lot of detail about it, in part because we've talked about it a number of times before, and then in part because, like, referencing it felt like what needed to happen at that moment, not necessarily diving into it. IUDs, though, specifically have some nuances that other contraceptives don't necessarily. And one is that some of the, like, population explosion discussions of the 1960s framed IUDs as a really good contraceptive method because of an underlying assumption that the people in poorer parts of the world, where the population was growing too fast, it framed it like. And the people there are clearly not smart enough to use other forms of contraception. Right. There was, like, an insulting medical racism aspect to it.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

At the same time, though, I read a couple of things that made it seem like the eugenics movement was really promoting IUDs, and, like, the biggest wave of the eugenics movement in the United States was falling out of favor. When actual practical IUDs were developed, they were more likely to be permanently sterilizing people.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Not doing anything that was temporary or revolutionary, reversible. Yeah, I think those are all of my notes about IUD discussion. I do really Want anybody listening to feel empowered to at least talk to their doctor. And if their doctor is like, oh, you'll be fine. Just take some Advil. No, that the current guide guidance is to offer more options than that and to have an informed discussion about it.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, Yeah. I also, when it came to that whole thing was like, I. I never want kids. Can we make this a permanent party?

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Like, right.

[Holly Fry]

So that was an easy one. And even then, I will say I chickened out twice. Oh, I didn't know that at the last minute. And then I had another procedure done that I was gonna have to be put under for. And I was like, let's knock them both out at the same time.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Just do it. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Which here is a funny story that I will tell you, and it is about our mutual friend Lily, who we both love very much. To have that procedure done, I had to have, like, you know, your abdomen is filled with air so that there's. Oh, yeah, they can easily get in there with all of the laparoscopic goodness. And as a consequence, in a hilarity, you look pregnant afterwards.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

Because it takes a while for that air to dissipate. And bless her, Lily came over that night and, like, brought me yummy things and hung out with me for a while. No, like, Brian was with me, too, but she was like, oh, what can I bring? And she was like, this is amazing. Can we take pictures and send them to people and tell them you've actually been sleeping pregnant?

[Tracy P. Wilson]

I was like, no.

[Holly Fry]

It's like, no, I'm not going to be responsible for 12 heart attacks today. That's not going to happen. Yeah. But it was very funny. It's very funny.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I love it.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

I love it.

[Holly Fry]

Somewhere there are pictures of me looking very pregnant.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Probably on a roll of film. That's how long ago that was.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Wow, 20.

[Holly Fry]

How old am I? This is like 25 years ago. It's been a long time.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, whatever's coming up for you on your weekend, boy, do I hope it's great. We've had a number of weather updates in our behind the scenes episode as I have lived through a particularly cold, snowy New England winter. It is 70 degrees today and it has made me so happy.

[Holly Fry]

We're barely keeping Tracy in the chair today.

[Tracy P. Wilson]

Yeah. Whatever is your equivalent of 70 degrees after a long, snowy winter. I hope that is how great your weekend is. We will have something brand new on Monday and tomorrow we'll be back with a Saturday classic. Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Brought to you in part by Vital Farms. I love eggs. I turn to them all the time as a quick and easy way to start a meal. And Vital Farms eggs are brought to you by hens that have access to fresh air and sunshine and you can actually look up on the carton and see the farm that those eggs came from. Vital Farms is also a certified Bee cor a purpose to improve the lives of people, animals and the planet through food. Look for the black egg carton in the egg aisle and visit vitalfarms.com to learn more. Vital Good Eggs no shortcuts Get a

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