Behind the Scenes Minis: Bullet Journal Dinosaur

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Behind the Scenes Minis: Bullet Journal Dinosaur"

Stuff You Missed in History Class — January 2, 2026
Hosts: Holly Frey & Tracy V. Wilson

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Overview

This behind-the-scenes episode features Holly and Tracy reflecting on their recent episodes, particularly their exploration of self-help books and a whimsical New Year’s Eve segment about a dinner party held inside a model iguanodon. The conversation blends humor, personal anecdotes, and historical context, offering listeners a candid peek behind the curtain of their creative process.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Relationships with Self-Help (02:28–07:11)

• Both hosts dig into their nuanced feelings about self-help books.
• Holly shares her fondness for practical tools and organization methods from self-help literature, especially Ben Franklin’s techniques.
• Tracy elaborates on the limits of advice like “accentuate the positive” when dealing with complex issues:
  • “There have been times in my life where I was 100% manufacturing my own misery... and then there've been other times... where what I needed was medication.” (Tracy, 02:45)
• They discuss the psychological concept of "defensive negativism":
  • Holly: “You are so inclined to see how things can go terribly wrong that you actually end up better prepared for any possible outcome.” (04:38)
• Tracy brings up early-pandemic research where anxious people briefly felt relief because "the disaster I was waiting for is here" (05:16–05:59).
• Holly finds Seneca’s On the Shortness of Life reassuring: “His wisdom is very much like, live in the moment... Now is the time. And I’m like, I love you, Seneca.” (07:12)

2. The Unintended Consequences of Self-Help (08:04–08:56)

• Discussion of how self-help techniques can be appropriated for harm.
• Holly remarks on Charles Manson using personal development techniques to manipulate followers:
  • “That is... mind blowning.” (Holly, 08:56)

3. Ben Franklin and the Bullet Journal Dilemma (12:59–15:37)

• Entertaining critique of Franklin’s journaling method:
  • Holly is baffled by Franklin erasing and reusing the same page:
    • “He was erasing his black marks and starting over with the same page instead of making another page... did you not just think to turn the page and make another chart?” (Holly, 13:39)
• They joke about time-traveling to help Franklin upgrade his journaling, imagining he’d be a huge fan of bullet journaling.
• Holly: “Ben Franklin would love bullet journaling.” (15:04)

4. Maximalism, Sentimentality, and Stuff (16:04–19:48)

• Holly describes her struggle with decluttering and her tendency to give even inanimate objects personalities:
  • “I had a little chart to rotate my stuffed animals so no one felt left out…” (16:34)
• Tracy connects Holly’s sentimentality to the Shinto-inspired animism in Marie Kondo’s philosophy.
• The pressure and complication of gift-giving are discussed:
  • Tracy: "What I want for Christmas is less. I want less things." (18:03)
  • Holly: “We’re giving each other the gift of freedom. Don’t even think about it. It’s fine.” (18:49)
• Both share humorous stories about accidental shopping, with Holly revealing she bought a pink sewing machine in a morning fugue state.

5. The Iguandon Dinner Party & Lighthearted History (20:07–22:47)

• Tracy on choosing the iguanodon dinner party for a New Year’s episode:
  • “I also was like, I would like to just do something kind of silly.” (20:18)
• The value of lighter topics amid heavier historical content:
  • Holly: “Let’s just wind up the year with something silly and delightful. Benign and kooky.” (21:02)
• A tangent about the history and scandals of Benjamin Waterhouse Hawkins, the dinner’s organizer, and his bigamous marriage:
  • Tracy: “I was just sort of skimming through... Bigamous marriage. I was like, should I stop what I'm doing and do this whole episode on this guy?” (21:54)

6. Disney Nostalgia and Attraction Closures (22:47–25:37)

• Holly points out that the iguanodon-related Disney attraction is set to close:
  • “Disney fans who have to acknowledge that we will no longer have dinosaur in Animal Kingdom park after early February...” (22:57)
• Both reminisce about visits to Animal Kingdom, discussing favorite memories and why Tracy skipped the Dinosaur ride due to motion sickness from similar rides like Star Tours:
  • Tracy: “I said, spent the entirety of the ride with my whole being focused on not being ill.” (24:18)

7. Trivia & Menu Challenges (27:20–28:21)

• Tracy reveals she intentionally made Holly read the French-English menu from the iguanodon dinner.
• Holly admits: “My French is decent, but some of that is like Franglish.... just wing it is what I say.” (28:00)
• They express frustration over limited sources about the dinner’s culinary details.

8. Closing Reflections on the New Year (29:05–end)

• Tracy and Holly extend well wishes for the new year and holidays.
• Recognize the varying experiences of listeners during this transitional time:
  • “If you’re able to take a final breath before diving back into the workplace... we just wish the best for everybody.” (29:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

"Sometimes…what I needed was medication. And then a third level…where maybe I didn't need medication, but maybe the circumstances…were so big and consuming that like no amount of positivity can really counteract all of that."
— Tracy V. Wilson (02:46)

"It's cruel to people sometimes to be like, oh, this is a fixable problem...people are not always ready to receive that information. And it can be very hurtful."
— Holly Fry (03:53)

"Ben Franklin would love bullet journaling."
— Holly Fry (15:04)

"I had a little chart to rotate my stuffed animals so no one felt left out…"
— Holly Fry (16:34)

"What I want for Christmas is less. I want less things."
— Tracy V. Wilson (18:03)

“Let’s just wind up the year with something silly and delightful. Benign and kooky.”
— Holly Fry (21:02)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment/Topic | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:28 | Personal takes on self-help books | | 04:16 | "Defensive negativism" & anxiety discussion | | 07:12 | Holly on Seneca and living in the moment | | 08:23 | Charles Manson’s misuse of self-help techniques | | 12:59 | Ben Franklin’s journaling habits and bullet journals | | 16:04 | Maximalism, decluttering, and sentimental attachment to objects | | 18:03 | Minimalism and challenges of holiday gifting | | 20:07 | Behind-the-scenes on the iguanodon dinner party episode | | 22:47 | Disney’s Animal Kingdom attraction closure | | 24:18 | Tracy’s Star Tours story and motion sickness | | 27:20 | The challenge of reading the iguanodon dinner menu | | 29:05 | New year wishes and closing reflections |

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Tone & Style

Warm, conversational, and self-aware. Holly and Tracy balance humor and earnestness, with plenty of personal anecdotes and an appreciation for both the serious and the whimsical sides of history.

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This summary captures the episode’s key themes, highlights, and entertaining digressions, providing a comprehensive and engaging outline for those who missed the conversation.

Transcript

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Kyle (AI co-founder)]

Hi, Kyle.

[Evan Ratliff]

Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks.

[Kyle (AI co-founder)]

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link.

[Evan Ratliff]

But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able.

[Holly Fry]

To do that yet.

[Evan Ratliff]

I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast shell on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionist History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control.

[Kyle (AI co-founder)]

And he said, I've been in prison 24, 25 years. That's probably not long enough. I didn't kill him.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

From Revisionist History, this is the Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionist History, the Alabama murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I didn't really have an interest in being on air. I kind of was up there to just try and infiltrate the building.

[Atlanta Is Podcast Host]

From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built a cultural empire, the Atlanta Is podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The thing I love about Atlanta is.

[Atlanta Is Podcast Host]

That it's a city of hustlers, man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise, featuring conversations with Ludacris, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more. The full series is available to listen to now. Listen to Atlanta is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Radhi Devlukia]

Hi, I'm Radhi Devlukia and I am the host of a really good Cry podcast. This week I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the crappy childhood Fairy, a creator, teacher and guide helping people heal from the lasting emot wounds of unsafe or chaotic childhoods.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

That talking about trauma isn't always great for people. It's not always the best thing. About a third of people who are traumatized as kids feel worse when they talk about it, get very dysregulated.

[Radhi Devlukia]

Listen to a really good cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to stuff you missed in history Class, a production of iHeartradio. Hello and Happy Friday I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

We talked about self help books this week.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

We did.

[Holly Fry]

Listen, I love a little self help book. You want to teach me how to make a great chart to do something? I'm in it. Yeah. I like Ben Franklin's method. I'm going to adapt it for my own use in 2026.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

My virtues will not be the same.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. I have similar conflicted feelings to what you talked about in the introduction. Because there have been times in my life where I was 100% manufacturing my own misery and my own decisions and my own choices were at the root of that. And then there've been other times in my life where what I needed was medication.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And then a third level of times in my life where maybe I didn't need medication, but maybe the circumstances that were happening were so big and consuming that like no amount of positivity can really counteract all of that. Right. And so there for sure been times that like various self help advice really could help me, but also times where if somebody had tried to tell me any of that, not only would it have not helped, it would have just made me feel worse.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And made me feel like, you know, the people in my life were not understanding that what I was dealing with was not. You need to accentuate the positive.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Sometimes that feels so infantilizing and just completely, you know, like, ignorant and dismissive. And it's cruel to people sometimes to be like, oh, this is a fixable problem, blah, blah, blah. Like, sometimes it might be a fixable problem, but people are not always ready to receive that information. And it can be very hurtful.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

It's tricky. So that's tricky. We've all known someone where we're like, if they just did this differently, everything would work better. But you don't know what's going on in their brain chemistry sometimes either. That's why I wanted to mention at the end that there are people. There are some studies that suggest. Right. For people that are negative thinkers. There is a term, it's called, I think, defensive negativism. It's like you are so inclined to see how things can go terribly wrong that you actually end up better prepared for any possible outcome.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Whereas if you're like sunshine and daisies and like, it's gonna work out and then it goes horrifically sideways, you just fall apart because you were not even considering what could happen.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And there are other. That's like one, you know, sort of psychological profile that obviates the Fact that this stuff is not always gonna be effective for everybody. But it's such an interesting, interesting space.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. What you just said remind a little bit of some research from, like, the beginning of the COVID 19 pandemic, where people who had issues with anxiety, me included, had an initial relief in that anxiety because it was sort of like our minds went, oh, the disaster I've been waiting for is here. And my mom had kind of like. My mom also a very anxious person. And then when she was. I'm laughing because she laughed about it too. When she was diagnosed with an incurable progressive disease, it was like her mind went, oh, okay, we're here now.

[Holly Fry]

I've been preparing for this my whole life.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

My whole life I was waiting for the bad thing to happen. And now we have the bad thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

There's. I mean, right. There are other iterations of those kinds of things where there were people. I mean, I know for me, the early part of the pandemic was actually, like, a weirdly good time. I was obviously not happy about people becoming ill and all of the death that we were dealing with. But the stillness of being home.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Was something I had not experienced for a long time, and it was very good for my brain.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And I think, like, there. I mean, in every other possible, you know, scenario of what works in terms of positive and negative thinking is also true. I will tell you this.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

It's a short book, but reading. I didn't read it all the way through, but reading Seneca's on the Shortness of Life, I mean, I had read parts of it in various courses in high school and college, but I hadn't revisited it in, like, 30 years. And now I'm like, I need to reread this whole thing. It's actually very reassuring and nice.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

His wisdom is very much like, live in the moment.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Don't keep putting stuff on. Just do what you want to do with your life. Cause there's never a perfect time. Now is the time. And I'm like, I love you, Seneca.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. That reminds me of a movie I watched very recently, which is Come See Me in the Good Light. It is about spoken word poet Andrea Gibson and their partner. When Andrea was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. And they wrote a poem that begins along the lines of feeling like they were about at the beginning of a nightmare. But it really being a story of how much easier happiness is to find when you realize you don't have much time left to find it.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

That's a paraphrase I'm not Andrea Gibson in any way, but it had a lot in common with what we read of Seneca.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, yeah, I really, really liked revisiting that. And I want to sit down with it over the end of the year here and just kind of read through the whole thing because like I said, it's not that long. Very easy. The Charles Manson thing is fascinating to me. That's wild that he's like, yeah, I read that book and it really changed my life.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And then I led a cult and.

[Holly Fry]

It made me able to lead a cult and convince people. And there have been interviews with members from his cult, people that are still in prison who have been like, yeah, that's exactly what he did. Yeah, he used all those techniques. Yeah, now I understand what was happening, which is just wild to me because it's such an extreme. It's not like I want this guy to do my paperwork for me. It's like such an extreme behavior that he's convincing people that they had the idea to do that. That is, to me, like, mind blowing.

[Kyle (AI co-founder)]

Hi, Kyle, could you draw up a.

[Evan Ratliff]

Quick document with the basic business plan, just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link.

[Holly Fry]

Thanks.

[Kyle (AI co-founder)]

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link.

[Evan Ratliff]

But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one person billion dollar company which would have been like unimaginable without AI. And now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents in small to medium businesses.

[Evan Ratliff]

Listen to Shell game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionist History. We're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. 35 years. That's how long Elizabeth Senate's family waited for justice to occur. 35 long years. I want to figure out why this guy for as long as it did, why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

He would say to himself, turn to the right, to the victim's family, and apologize. Turn to the left, tell my family I love him. So he would have this little practice. To the right, I'm sorry, to the left. I love you.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

From revisionist history, this is the Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionist the Alabama murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danny Shapiro]

Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast Family Secrets.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

We were in the car like a Rolling Stone came on and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what?

[Holly Fry]

What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I knew something had happened to me.

[Holly Fry]

In the middle of the night, but.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I couldn't hold on to what had happened.

[Danny Shapiro]

These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming 13th season of Family Secrets. Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one or just joining the Family Secrets family, we're so happy to have you with us. I'll dive deep into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are. Listen to Family secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dr. Joy Harden Bradford]

The moments that shape us often begin with a simple question. What do I want my life to look like now? I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, and on Therapy for Black Girls we create space for honest conversations about identity, relationships, mental health and the choices that help us grow. As cybersecurity expert Camille Stewart Gloucester reminds.

[Holly Fry]

Us, we are in a divisive time where our comments are weaponized against us. And so what we find is a lot of Black women are standing up and speaking out because they feel the brunt of the pain.

[Dr. Joy Harden Bradford]

Each week we explore the tools and insights that help you move with purpose, whether you're navigating something new or returning to yourself. If you're ready for thoughtful guidance and grounded support, this is the place for you. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Here's my fun part of the the behind the scenes. I'm still on Ben Franklin. Listen, Ben Franklin. I Don't believe in holding anybody up as on a pedestal. But I really like the way he talks about how to do this. And I really like the whole ideology of you can work on one thing at a time and revisit it and know that you're gonna have to cycle through it. And it's a progress. You know, you're progressing. You're not necessarily ever going to get to this, like, apex state of achievement. But here is where I'm reading that. And there's another section that I didn't go into that I was like, ben Franklin, what's wrong with you? And here's what it is. He wasn't.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I'm literally.

[Holly Fry]

I don't even know how to describe. It's so silly and it's so unimportant. But it really was just like, what? Again, my brother, I have the solution for you. Why didn't you do this this way? He was erasing his black marks and starting over with the same page instead of making another page. And then in his book, he talks about how difficult that made it and how it wore through the page. And then eventually he realized he could use, like, a sturdier substance that he could make the permanent lines with. And then something like an oil crayon that could be easily marked off. And I'm like, did you not just think to turn the page and make another chart?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Maybe he didn't wanna. Maybe thought that would waste paper. Maybe.

[Holly Fry]

But I don't know.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I feel like if you were turning the page, if you had a paper or, you know, a journal or something that was for this purpose, you would be able to see your progress over time.

[Holly Fry]

Exactly. Yeah. That one blew my mind.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Maybe thought it was wasteful.

[Holly Fry]

I'm gonna. That's another use for the time machine. I'm gonna go back and be like, yo, yeah, Ben Franklin, do you want me to just make all the charts for you and you can just keep turning the pages? Cause I don't mind. I have a template. I'm an Erin Condren, girly. I have figured out all the things.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I need to do.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

If you thought a different one on every page was wasteful, he would really hate how many journals I've bought and written three or four pages in and then never picked up again.

[Holly Fry]

I do think Ben Franklin would love bullet journaling.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, I think so, too.

[Holly Fry]

I think he would love it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Because he did like to keep a little. He loved a little chart. He loved to make a little diagram of how his day was gonna go.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I Was about to say, I wonder what Samuel Pepys would think of. But I don't think Samuel Pepys would be a bullet journaler.

[Holly Fry]

Samuel Pepys. I'm gonna make a callback to a much earlier episode. Samuel Pepys would be one of those dudes who buys an almanac and keeps his little journal entry in each day of the almanac.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, he would do that. Yeah, yeah. Cause his entries were just too usually brief and sometimes just very almost utilitarian in how they were focused on things.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I don't think he would really be into bullet journaling.

[Holly Fry]

Ben Franklin would. Yeah, Ben Franklin loves a bullet journal. That's the shirt. I do have a million self help books on how to clean my darn house. Yeah. Ask me how clean my house is.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I don't want to.

[Holly Fry]

No amount. No amount clean. I mean, part of it is just I'm a maximalist. I have too much stuff. I have recently, since we got back from Morocco, I have really been like, something flipped in my head while we were traveling and I was like, I need to get rid of some of my stuff. Yeah. Which is very hard for me because I'm one of those people that imbues stuff with personality in my head. Like I was that child that would like, I had a little chart to rotate my stuffed animals so no one felt left out where it would be like, okay, now the seven of you can be on the bed, but I don't have room for eight. But I promise you, next ones in line are gonna move onto the bed next week. Like in my head, inanimate objects have feelings and thoughts. I know that's very cuckoo. So it's hard for me to get rid of things. Cause I don't want them to feel abandoned or unloved. Even shoes, Even stupid things. I mean, I'm trying to think of how small and unimportant a thing has to be before I don't give it a personality in my head.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I'm like a binder clip.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Maybe not. And I'm just sitting here thinking about Marie Kondo and how much her whole philosophy is based in like Shinto animism and how that seems to have parallels with your giving objects feelings.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, I always have. Yeah, I don't always. It's like I have an obnoxious number of stuffed animals and they all have names, personality traits. Listen, I know it's very silly, but it is what it is. I don't want to always be a maximalist. I understand. I agree that your goods will eventually cause you problems. I have too many things, but I love them.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Here we are. I'm working on it. I'm working on it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

We're recording this shortly before Christmas.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And I've had some every year. You know, my dad is like, what's your Christmas list? And this year there was just. There was nothing on it. There were no things on it. He was really trying to get me to tell him something that I. And I was like, what I want for Christmas is less. I want less things. Can the Christmas present be something that is in my house that I don't use anymore, that I don't even remember that I own? It's just gone.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Long ago.

[Holly Fry]

Thankfully, we don't really do Christmas presents. Brian and I will sometimes get each other very silly small things, but not big presents. A long time ago in my family, I was like, I would like to give you all the gift of. Don't worry about it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I don't need more stuff. None of us are going to pick the things that the other people really wanted anyway. We're all too busy to make a list. We're giving each other the gift of freedom. Don't. Don't even think about it. It's fine.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I love this.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. And I mean, most of the time, like my close friends, if I'm going to give them something, it's usually something I found throughout the year that seems like exactly the right thing for them. And sometimes I will not wait until Christmas. But also a lot of times it's like a consumable. Like a yummy, delicious food that they love or like their favorite tea or an alcohol that they're a fan of. Like, because we don't. None of us need more stuff.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

As much as I'm a stuffaholic, I know I've reached a one in one out policy as a bare minimum right now.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And then we'll see how long that lasts. Cause I'm real bad about it. I. I have the fugue state in the morning when I'm not awake yet and I'm drinking my coffee on the couch and I order stuff without even knowing it. That's how I have a new sewing machine that I don't even remember ordering.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh, goodness.

[Holly Fry]

But I. I have the receipt that I ordered it. Clearly I ordered it. But it is pink, so I mean, I needed that. Clearly I have yet to unbox it because I don't have space.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

We talked on New Year's Eve about a dinner party that happened in an iguanodon, which I chose just because it seemed so silly.

[Holly Fry]

This is exactly my kind of dinner party.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. I was looking around for something that would be, you know, contextually relevant to New Year's Eve. We've had various things that we have put out when an episode has come out on either New Year's Eve or New Year's Day that have been somehow related in some way. And I also was like, I would like to just do something kind of silly. The best kind.

[Holly Fry]

The best kind.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Because heavy things are happening in the world. I've done a number of heavier episodes over the course of the year. I was like, let's just wind up the year with something silly and delightful.

[Holly Fry]

Benign and kooky.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Benign. Mostly benign. Except for Richard Owen being weirdly mean and petty and a jerk to people. I. So I had. I had outlined the basic stuff about the park and the construction of the dinosaurs and all of that kind of stuff. And I was like, I think we need just a little bit in here about Benjamin Waterhouse Hawkins. Like, I don't really have. Like, who is this person? Yeah. And I can't remember which source I wound up at first. It might have been the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. It might have been Britannica. I don't remember. I had gone to some basic source that I would turn to to get basic biographical information about a person.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And I was just sort of skimming through, blah, blah, blah, Born in London, da da, da, Bigamous marriage. I was like, should I stop what I'm doing and do this whole episode on this guy? And I was like, no, you took too many notes about the of it.

[Holly Fry]

And plus you're too busy with the dinosaur. Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yes. We're going to do the dinosaur thing. I had previously flagged the models that he had made for dinosaurs that were supposed to go in Central Park. I have an old article on that that I had flagged as like maybe something to do an episode on. And that never really came to fruition. But of course it will be part of things if there ever is an episode just on Waterhouse Hawkins. Yeah. And his marriage to two women at the same time.

[Holly Fry]

This episode, you may not have realized, might have a slight downer vibe to a very specific group of listeners.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

So Disney fans who have to acknowledge that we will no longer have dinosaur in Animal Kingdom park after early February because as part of a park refresh which has an iguanodon in it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Uh huh.

[Holly Fry]

They're not gonna make it. They're not gonna make it. We're not Ever gonna make it on that ride again?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Aw.

[Holly Fry]

It'S fine.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I'm okay.

[Holly Fry]

Cause, you know, I've said before, I love change. I'm kind of addicted to it, so I'm fine with it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

But a lot of people get really.

[Holly Fry]

Upset when things in the park change.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

But we'll always have the memories. We'll always have Felicia Ayers Allen. I'm trying to remember.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Cause I've been to Animal Kingdom a couple of times as a grownup. Once with you. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Surely we rode that. Surely we did.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Like, I just can't bring it to mind what I am remembering. Oh.

[Holly Fry]

There's a remote possibility we skipped it because we had already done Star Tours, which did not agree with you.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I had an unhappy time on Star Tours. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

It is also on a gimbal rig, but one that is a moving car. So I vaguely recall us having a conversation of, I don't think you're gonna like this ride.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Or at least your body won't. Even if your mind wants to.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I was so excited about Star Tours. And the way that ride works is for folks who don't know you are seated on a platform that's on a gimbal rig. It moves around. Yeah. You're looking at a 3D movie, basically. And that technology has gotten really pretty good. But it's not really possible to have it be perfect between what you're experiencing physically on the gimbal rig and what your eyes are seeing on the projection. And I instantly was like, oh, no. And I said, spent the entirety of the ride with my whole being focused on not being ill. Yeah. And so I have never gone on any other ride that works that way.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Yeah. For Dinosaur, you're in a car, but the car has its own, like.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Similar movement as you're moving through the. The environment. And so I think. I think we did have a discussion about it in situ, where I was like, I'm a little worried about this ride for you.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And I described it and you went nopalop. And then probably went and got a cocktail somewhere.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Things that I definitely remember from Animal Kingdom are that big tree of life.

[Holly Fry]

Yes.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And there is a picture that I think either you or Brian took of me standing in front of it, just making an exuberant expression. It looks like it's growing out of my head. It's pretty great.

[Holly Fry]

Then I probably took it. Cause Brian would line it up better than that. It's just my guess.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. And then I also remember the safari ride, of course.

[Holly Fry]

Yes.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And Delicious food.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, more delicious food around every corner.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

There's also. I don't remember exactly where this is in Animal Kingdom, but you know, as you're walking around places that are decorated to look like a place that you are walking through. There's one place that we that had us that said something to the effect of must have papers to pass.

[Holly Fry]

That's probably over by Expedition Everest.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

That sounds maybe right. And like, that's not the exact wording on it at all. But I remember seeing it as an adult and being like, if I saw that sign as a six year old, I would be so focused on whether we were gonna get in trouble for not having whatever passes it is that they are requiring. Anyway, those are random memories of Animal Kingdom park, which is only tangentially related to eating dinner and an iguanodon.

[Holly Fry]

I mean, if Disney were smart, that would be great. I feel like I keep using Fridays to tell Disney what I want them to do. But you could eat inside one of the brides as it goes down. Probably that would be only for very fancy pants people, though.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. Some of the articles about this mention a museum in the United States where a dinner was held. It was not clear to me whether it was like, in the rib cage of a giant fossil of some extinct animal or whether it was like, under the articulated skeleton and whether it had been an inspiration to these folks when they put this together. And I was like, that all just seems kind of speculative to me, especially since this other dinner was something like 20 years before the iguanodon dinner. So I just didn't get into it. Also, I on purpose arranged the outline so that you had to read the menu. You.

[Holly Fry]

You mean jerk. I mean, my French is decent, but some of that is like Franglish.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Some of it feels like half made up. French.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Well, it's like the. You know, there would be like a French word in it, but then an English word.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

About a very specific English way of cooking something. And I was like, well, yeah, shaboodles.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, just wing it is what I say.

[Holly Fry]

Swing it, swing it. It's all food.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I was bummed that I couldn't find more specifics about how the meal was prepared, because there was just this one source that said that Hawkins's cook did most of it. And then the belt, the Bill of Fare, crediting Charles Higginbottom of the Anerley Tavern. And then European Mansion House Street. The only references I found to Europe Mansion House street were an archaeological find in that area that found like drinkware that was embossed with that.

[Holly Fry]

Huh.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And I, I did not go down that rabbit hole for too very long, but I was like, I wonder what's up with this? What? Sounds like it must be a restaurant of some sort. So, anyway, anyway, we have started a new year now as of when this Friday behind the Scenes is coming out. So I hope everyone had a great New Year's Eve. Whatever was going on, whatever is coming up for you this coming weekend, I hope it's also great. I know for a lot of folks that are in kind of office job type situations, this is sort of the weekend before returning back to work post holidays. So if you're able to take a final breath before diving back into the workplace, if you're in a role where you've been working this whole time, I hope there has been a break for you in there somewhere. And if not, I hope there is one coming up soon. You know, we just wish the best for everybody. We hope your year is off to a good start. We will be back with a Saturday classic tomorrow and something brand new on Monday. Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.