Stuff You Missed in History Class: Behind the Scenes Minis: Complicated Ely

Release Date: December 13, 2024
Hosts: Tracy V. Wilson & Holly Fry
Production: iHeartPodcasts

Introduction and Technical Challenges

Timestamp: [03:27 – 04:10]

Tracy V. Wilson and Holly Fry open the episode with a candid update about technical difficulties that forced them to re-record the episode. Tracy reassures listeners that only the behind-the-scenes content is affected, and the actual episodes remain intact. She explains, “we are recording this episode four weeks after the one that we recorded on Sarah Winnemucca, but they are only coming out like two weeks apart” (04:11).

Introducing Ely S. Parker: A Complex Historical Figure

Timestamp: [04:10 – 06:05]

The discussion swiftly transitions to their main topic: Ely S. Parker, a prominent Indigenous leader whose life and decisions have sparked significant debate among historians and his community. Tracy reflects on Parker's role and influence, noting, “Ely S. Parker became the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and was making these policies related to all of the Indigenous people in the United States. And, you know, a lot of those decisions [continue] to have impact and influence today” (04:50).

Balancing Two Worlds and Personal Ambition

Timestamp: [06:05 – 07:01]

Tracy delves deeper into Parker’s personal motivations and the pressures he faced, highlighting the vision his mother had for him to succeed in both Indigenous and white societies. She muses, “I always wonder how much that was informing his decisions, whether consciously or subconsciously” (06:05). The hosts compare Parker’s experience to the pressures faced by fictional characters like Anakin Skywalker from Star Wars, emphasizing the burden of expectations and its impact on decision-making.

Impact of Policies and Community Perception

Timestamp: [07:01 – 09:22]

Holly discusses the 1999 PBS documentary on Parker, which includes insights from Indigenous historians and leaders. The documentary critiques Parker’s ambition, suggesting it led to decisions perceived as betrayals by his people. She states, “a lot of them really talked about his personal ambition and how they felt like his personal ambition had led him to make decisions that were a betrayal of his people and his roots” (07:01). Tracy draws parallels to their previous episode on Sarah Winnemucca, emphasizing the communal decision-making contrasts with Parker’s individual approach.

Ely S. Parker’s Multifaceted Legacy

Timestamp: [09:22 – 11:13]

The hosts explore Parker’s myriad accomplishments beyond his political role, including his engineering work and his crucial involvement in the Civil War as the person who drafted the surrender terms at Appomattox. Holly remarks, “Truly a remarkable life... he wrote out the surrender terms at Appomattox during the Civil War, all of those things are fascinating to me” (08:50). They also touch upon his portrayal in cinema, noting the underrepresentation and oversimplification of his contributions, with minimal dialogue in films that fail to capture his deep relationship with Ulysses S. Grant.

Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes

Timestamp: [11:13 – End]

As the episode wraps up, Tracy and Holly express their anticipation for future episodes, including a new one on Monday. They emphasize the importance of understanding complex historical figures like Ely S. Parker to gain a nuanced perspective of history and its lasting effects on contemporary Indigenous communities.

Notable Quotes

• Tracy V. Wilson:
  “[...] Ely S. Parker became the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and was making these policies related to all of the Indigenous people in the United States. And, you know, a lot of those decisions continuing to have impact and influence today.” (04:50)

• Tracy V. Wilson:
  “I always wonder how much that was informing his decisions, whether consciously or subconsciously.” (06:05)

• Holly Fry:
  “Truly a remarkable life, though. Like, even if we stopped before becoming Commissioner of Indian affairs, the process of, like, going through an education and becoming an engineer and doing the engineering work that he did...” (08:50)

Key Insights and Discussions

1. Dual Identity and Pressure:
   Ely S. Parker navigated the complexities of maintaining his Indigenous identity while assimilating into white American society. This duality created internal and external pressures that influenced his professional and personal decisions.

2. Impact of Personal Ambition:
   The hosts discuss how Parker’s ambition to excel in English language and engineering, and his pursuit of power, were viewed by his community as potentially betraying their cultural roots and collaborative decision-making traditions.

3. Policy Legacy:
   As Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Parker's policies have had lasting effects, shaping the dynamics between Indigenous communities and the U.S. government. The episode underscores the importance of examining these policies to understand their ongoing relevance.

4. Representation in Media:
   Parker's minimal portrayal in films highlights a broader issue of underrepresentation of Indigenous leaders in mainstream media, which often fails to capture the depth of their contributions and relationships.

5. Comparative Perspectives:
   Drawing parallels with Sarah Winnemucca, the hosts highlight different Indigenous leaders' approaches to assimilation and leadership, emphasizing the diversity of experiences and strategies within Indigenous communities during the 19th century.

Concluding Thoughts

Tracy V. Wilson and Holly Fry provide a thorough and thoughtful examination of Ely S. Parker's life, balancing his achievements with the controversies surrounding his policies and personal motivations. By delving into his multifaceted legacy, the hosts encourage listeners to reflect on the complexities of leadership and cultural identity within historical contexts. This episode not only sheds light on a significant yet often overlooked figure but also invites a deeper understanding of the broader Indigenous experience in American history.

For more episodes and to continue exploring fascinating historical narratives, visit the iHeartRadio website.