Behind the Scenes Minis: Hearts and Arts

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stuff You Missed in History Class
Episode: Behind the Scenes Minis: Hearts and Arts
Release Date: June 20, 2025
Hosts: Tracy V. Wilson & Holly Fry
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In the "Behind the Scenes Minis: Hearts and Arts" episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class, hosts Tracy V. Wilson and Holly Fry explore the intricate worlds of electrocardiograms (EKGs) and the art industry. Through personal anecdotes and in-depth discussions, they shed light on the challenges of medical experiences and the complexities of artistic talent and value.

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1. Personal Experiences with Electrocardiograms

Tracy's First Encounter with an EKG

Tracy shares a personal story from over two decades ago when she experienced palpitations. Visiting urgent care, she was connected to an EKG machine which initially showed normal results. However, Tracy became increasingly anxious about needing to use the bathroom, which inadvertently elevated her heart rate, creating a distressing feedback loop. This experience highlighted systemic issues in the U.S. healthcare system, particularly regarding unexpected medical billing.

Tracy V. Wilson [04:09]: "This is pre Affordable Care Act that we're talking about. [...] Nobody talked to me about the fact that the provider for this thing was out of network."

Billing Challenges

After discontinuing the use of her event monitor due to its intrusive noise and impracticality in her workplace, Tracy unexpectedly received a $600 bill months later. The lack of prior communication about the costs and out-of-network services left her financially strained.

Tracy V. Wilson [07:03]: "Nobody talked to me about this costing $600."

Holly's Recent EKG Experience

Holly recounts her recent experience requiring an EKG for hypertension management. Unlike Tracy's ordeal, Holly found the procedure smoother, with electrodes that didn't irritate her skin. However, during a hospital stay, she accidentally dislodged an electrode in her sleep, causing alarm among the medical staff.

Holly Fry [16:10]: "Until I scratched myself in my sleep and undid one of the electrodes, which to them looked like I was crashing."

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2. Research and Challenges Behind the Podcast

Automated ECG Interpretation

Tracy discusses her research into automated ECG processing, referencing the paper titled "Automated ECG: A Brief History From High Expectations to Deepest Networks" from the Hearts journal. She humorously notes the common refrain among scientists about hoping their work remains relevant by the time of publication.

Tracy V. Wilson [10:55]: "The purpose of this article is to review the development of automated ECG processing from its beginnings to the present day..."

Unexpected Discoveries

While researching, Tracy stumbled upon an unverified claim on Wikipedia linking Nobel laureate Willem Einthoven to the infamous Jack the Ripper case. This led to a brief exploration of historical accuracy and the reliability of online sources.

Tracy V. Wilson [20:25]: "I was shocked by this because until reading that paragraph, I had thought about what a nice guy he seemed to be like."

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3. The Intersection of Art and Talent

Albert Bierstadt's Artistic Journey

The hosts delve into the life of artist Albert Bierstadt, questioning the nature of artistic talent. They explore whether his exceptional skills were innate or honed through deliberate effort, noting contrasting perceptions from his family and peers.

Holly Fry [26:20]: "He was a pretty quick adopter of photography as a reference collection tool."

Valuing Art and Supporting Artists

Tracy and Holly passionately discuss the importance of supporting artists, both financially and through patronage. They highlight the disparities in the art market, where sometimes the monetary value of art doesn't align with the perceived skill or emotional investment behind it.

Holly Fry [34:03]: "There are so many times that I'm like, brian, there's painting in the car, right? [...] There are lots of people that need patronizing."

Personal Anecdotes

Tracy shares her experience attending an art festival in Asheville's River Arts District, emphasizing the resilience of the art community in rebuilding after natural disasters. Holly adds her viewpoint on democratizing art access and the challenges artists face in pricing their work appropriately.

Tracy V. Wilson [35:10]: "I love seeing how many people there were who were out there selling their art and how different some of it was from each other."

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4. Reflections on the Art World

Debate on Artistic Technique vs. Market Value

The discussion transitions into a broader conversation about the art world's valuation systems. The hosts question whether high prices for certain artworks are justified by technique or influenced by market demand and social status.

Holly Fry [30:29]: "It's so heady and it's such a long and big thing. But my other thing is this. If you like art... "

Encouraging Appreciation and Support

Tracy emphasizes the significance of patronizing local artists and the mutual benefits it brings to both creators and consumers. They advocate for purchasing art or visiting galleries as means to support and sustain the art community.

Tracy V. Wilson [35:23]: "I love that there is a place that, you know, all of these various artists, like, created a place that was a home for this that they are now recreating in the aftermath of the hurricane."

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Conclusion

Tracy V. Wilson and Holly Fry successfully intertwine personal narratives with broader societal issues, offering listeners a comprehensive look into the worlds of medical diagnostics and the art industry. Their candid discussions not only inform but also inspire action towards supporting artists and understanding the complexities of healthcare systems.

Holly Fry [36:16]: "I hope everybody's nice to each other and that we find ways to appreciate each other and art and the joyous things in the world as much as we can."

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Notable Quotes

• Tracy V. Wilson [04:09]: "This is pre Affordable Care Act that we're talking about. [...] Nobody talked to me about the fact that the provider for this thing was out of network."

• Holly Fry [16:10]: "Until I scratched myself in my sleep and undid one of the electrodes, which to them looked like I was crashing."

• Tracy V. Wilson [20:25]: "I was shocked by this because until reading that paragraph, I had thought about what a nice guy he seemed to be like."

• Holly Fry [34:03]: "There are so many times that I'm like, brian, there's painting in the car, right? [...] There are lots of people that need patronizing."

• Holly Fry [36:16]: "I hope everybody's nice to each other and that we find ways to appreciate each other and art and the joyous things in the world as much as we can."

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a balanced mix of personal experiences and insightful analysis, making complex topics accessible and relatable. Whether you're interested in the intricacies of heart health or the vibrant dynamics of the art world, Tracy and Holly deliver a compelling narrative that encourages both introspection and outward support.

Transcript

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos, but now the old gays are pulling back the curtain with their new podcast, Silver Linings with the Old Gays, brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Veeve Healthcare. Hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Jesse serve their lifetime of wisdom when it comes to love, sex, community and whatever else they've got on the gay agenda. So check out Silver Linings with the old gays on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Taking over the helm of NBC Nightly News, a 75 year old broadcast, it's a great responsibility. Good evening, I'm Tom Yamas. You have to go out there to bring people at home. Closer to the store, wildfires continue to be a threat. With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen. And when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News, NBC News, I'm Tom Galamas. That's what we do every night. NBC Nightly News with Tom. Tom Yamas, evenings on NBC. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and safeway. Now through June 24th. Score hot summer savings and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags on items like Dove ice cream bars, Chips Ahoy cookies, Arrowhead bottled water and Charmin bath tissue. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online. For easy drive up and go, pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details. In 2012, 16 year old Brian Herrera was gunned down in broad daylight on his way to do homework. No suspects, no witnesses, no justice.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I would ask my husband, do you.

[Holly Fry]

Want me to stop? He was like, no, keep fighting.

[Ryan Seacrest]

After nearly a decade, a breakthrough changed everything. This is Cold Case Files Miami. Stories of families who never stopped fighting. Listen to Cold Case Files Miami on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

We talked about electrocardiograms this week.

[Holly Fry]

We sure did.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

You're wondering why we didn't postpone recording? Because I have a little cold. We did. We did in fact, postpone the recording. We got to the end of the window for postponing things. So it became we got to record the podcast.

[Holly Fry]

Now, I will say it does seem like the fates have been trying to get us to not record this time.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, it's. It's been a kind of an ordeal this particular week. I'm going to preface this by saying I'm not asking for medical advice. Please do not send medical advice. If you find yourself writing an email that starts, I know you said not to send medical advice, but please don't. Don't send that either. But I'm going to tell the story of the two times that I got elect an electrocardiogram. So the first time, this was more than 20 years ago. I was having a palpitation issue. I worked at a place where we had a nurse. And so first I went to the nurse and told her what I was experiencing. And the nurse said that I should go to urgent care, and which I did. And they hooked me up to the machine and that was normal. Then they were like, okay, we're gonna just put you on this monitor for a while. Just chill out in this room, and we'll be back to check on you in a little bit. I said, cool. While they were gone, I started to really need to pee. And it was one of those things where I couldn't stop thinking about it. And the like need to go to the bathroom was stressing me out. And then that was making the monitor, like, that was making my heart rate go up, which I was also aware of because I could see and hear the monitor. And it was a cycle.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And finally the nurse came back in and was like, whoa, what is going on? And I was like, I've got to pee so bad. Anyway, the urgent care at that time, also, this becomes a story about how our medical system in the United States is broken. This is pre Affordable Care act that we're talking about. This is how long ago this was still broken. They wanted to give me an event monitor, which is kind of like a Holter monitor, but instead of continually recording my heart, I was supposed to mash a button when I was experiencing the palpitation feeling that I was having, because nothing had other than the fact that when I urgently needed to use the bathroom, my heart rate was very high. Nothing had seemed unusual at urgent care. So they give me this thing. I at this point, was working as a massage therapist in a very fancy spa. And the monitor was under my clothing. It wasn't visible to people. But the first time that I needed to activate it, I was in the elevator at work sort of behind the scenes. And I learned that it made an audible noise that I would compare to the Sound of a dial up modem connecting.

[Holly Fry]

Gotcha.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And I was like, I can't wear this at work. I am a massage therapist. Like, if I'm in a room with a client and I mash this thing, it's gonna do this. And if I just don't mash it because it's gonna make this loud noise in the middle of somebody's massage, like, then I'm not getting the thing. Like, I'm not, I'm not getting the monitoring that I'm supposed to be getting. So I called the urgent care and they were like, just send it back. Months pass and I get a bill for $600, which is a tiny amount of money compared to a lot of today's medical medical bills. But it was $600 that I did not have because the provider for the event monitor was out of network and because for some reason I didn't get a bill for this until months after it had like, the service had happened. I was past the deadline to like, file, like, to get them to get the insurance company to like revisit their denial of the claim, right? And I was like, I don't, I don't have $600. Nobody talked to me about this costing $600. Nobody talked to me about the fact that the provider for this thing was out of network. Apparently no one thought to see if they were in my network before signing me up for a $600 thing that they didn't. The signing me up for a $600 thing without, like talking to me about it. And then I moved away and that.

[Holly Fry]

Was the end of that.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And decades have passed without me ever again hearing about that $600. Like, it never went to collections or anything like that. It was just a whole, it's a whole weird thing.

[Holly Fry]

That is weird.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

That was all probably stress related. I don't know. It's. It's. The problem stopped happening.

[Holly Fry]

Hooray.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

That time I did have irritation from the adhesive on the, the electrodes. This time we have talked about how I have been. I like, I have hypertension. I'm on medication for my blood pressure. I needed to have my dosage adjusted. And I had gone for a follow up for that. And my doctor was like, why is your heart rate a little high? And I said, I don't know. And I had been putting in my pulse along with my blood pressure readings. And she was like, it's been a little high pretty much this whole time. Let's get an EKG at my physical. I had already gotten all of the various blood work for things that might cause a person to have an elevated heart rate. And all of that had been normal. And the, the EKG was almost was like also normal. And when I was asked, have you ever had one of these before? I was like, oh yeah. It was like probably more than 20 years ago at this point. She was like, yeah, this is, it's. It's changed almost none since then. But the machine will probably take less time. And for my specific experience, the, the adhesive electrodes did not cause me any irritation whatsoever, which I was glad about, because I do tend to react to adhesives sometimes I do too, in medical contexts. So it was a great move for me to drop the very unwieldy topic for this because I was like, I bet I can do an electrocardiogram episode way faster than I can finish this unwieldy thing. That turned out to be totally correct. Even working through having a cold the whole time, I did not feel ill enough during the work week to need to take sick days. My voice sounded terrible. I returned to the unwieldy topic, which is coming. I definitely would not have finished it on time had I continued trying to work on. Turned out to be kind of a tangle. It is coming though. I'm not gonna spoil what it is. It's gonna be soon though. One of the papers that I read while researching this was about automated ECG interpretation. And it was called Automated ECG A Brief History From High Expectations to Deepest Networks in the journal Hearts. And here's a quote. The purpose of this article is to review the development of automated ECG processing from its beginnings to the present day, with the hope that between the time the article was written and published, there will not have been some world shattering development to make the content of this paper outdated. I mean, I found that hilarious.

[Holly Fry]

The refrain of all scientists everywhere right now.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yep. We have occasionally recorded an episode on something on the podcast and then in less than 24 hours there's a major discovery of that related to that. Something that seems more likely to happen in a field like automated ECG interpretation. I also noted we've had a number of medical episodes lately and they've been pretty focused on Europe and North America. And I think some, some of that has to do with like where the centers of academic and medical research were. But then some of it is also probably just information availability. Yeah, it's totally possible that there were other discoveries elsewhere in the world that I just did not uncover in what I was working on. So I wanted to Acknowledge that.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hi, Zoe Saldana.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Welcome to T Mobile.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us. Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need to trade in. When you switch to T Mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

There's always a trade in.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Not right now. At T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma.

[Holly Fry]

That's okay.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

It's lavender.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I'm good.

[Holly Fry]

Seriously.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Let me check this pocket.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh, mints.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I've got cupcakes in the car.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us. No trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 months monthly bill credits. New line $100 plus a month on experience beyond finance agreement. $999.99 and qualify imported for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge. Pay off the virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits end in balance due if you pay off early or cancel.

[Tom Yamas]

See t mobile.com this July 4th celebrate freedom from spill stains and overpriced furniture with Annabe, the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget friendly pricing. Sofas start at just $699, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Annabe's pet friendly stain resistant and interchangeable slipcovers are made with high performance fabric that's built for real life. You'll love the cloud like comfort of hypoallergenic high resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time. With modular pieces you can rearrange anytime. It's a sofa that adapts to your Life. Now through July 4th, get up to 60% off site [e-mail] Every order comes with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping, no restocking fees. Every penny back. Declare independence from dirty outdated furniture. Shop [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos. But now the Old Gays pull back the curtain on their brand new podcast, Silver Linings with the Old Gays, brought to you in partnership with iHeartrad Arts, Ruby Studio and Veeve Healthcare. With over 300 years of experience between them, hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Jesse serve four lifetimes of wisdom when it comes to love, sex, community and whatever else they've got on the gay agenda. Listen in to these fabulous friends, swap stories exploring how queer life has evolved over the decades and the silver linings they've collected along the way. Each episode dives into hot topics from safe sex and online dating to untangling Gen Z lingo, as well as insights insights on how music, art and fashion show up in queer culture. So check out Silver Linings, a show about how pride ages like fine wine. Available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway, now through June 24. Score hot summer savings and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags on items like Kraft Mac and Cheese, Celsius energy drinks, Quaker chewy bars, and sparkling ice flavored water. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

[Holly Fry]

This topic reminded me of a thing that I forgot, okay, which is that I don't think I had ever had an EKG until last year. Which is. I've talked about it on the show. I'm fine. Everything's fine. But I had been having weird chest pain.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And I had done a like, is this heartburn? Because I almost feel like a jerk for saying this. I had never experienced heartburn in my life. I can eat all of the cruel and evil things and the most I will do is burp, but I don't get a burning sensation. Like I don't. So I did not know. And I did a telehealth consult. Cause it was like the middle of the night and the doctor that I talked to was like, hey, you're in your 50s. This could be a heart attack. Maybe you go to the ER now. And I went to the ER and I didn't even have like this information all the way out of my mouth before like an orderly came screeching around the corner with the cart and was like, I'm still filling out paperwork. And they did it and they're like, hey, Your heart's fine. Your heart's actually great. And I was like, okay, good. And I thought I would go home, but that was when I had my gallbladder out. But the other thing that I had quite forgotten was that I'm presuming it was some form of a Holter ekg. When I was admitted and I was in the hospital, they continued to monitor my heart just for safety. And so I had one that lived, or I had, you know, electrodes that lived on me. And I didn't know until later when I was like, what the heck is going on? That it was sending all of my info continuously via wifi to the nurse's station.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Until I, like, scratched myself in my sleep and undid one of the electrodes, which to them looked like I was crashing. And there were a lot of very concerned people in my room. And I'm like, what?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

What's happening?

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Wonderful of them to be on the spot, but, yeah, I was just a ding dong that moved my gown around and scratched at myself in a way that, yeah, ruin their feedback.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I. I don't fully know what happened because you are typically not conscious during a colonoscopy unless you're me. I wake up every time when I had been taken to the recovery room after I got a colonoscopy and I was, you know, I had been brought my clothing and I was in kind of, you know, a private area where I would recombobulate myself. They were unhooking me from things. And then somebody went, oh, that explains it. Similarly, like a monitor wire had come off of what it was supposed to be attached to. So I'm like, what was happening in the room while my thing was going on? Was somebody like, I don't know, something seems wrong, but she seems fine. Whatever it was was a dislodged monitor.

[Holly Fry]

You also gave me an unwieldy things memory.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Of a recent event.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

So some time ago, perhaps a year and a half, I was working on a subject which became unwieldy.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And I kind of abandoned it. And then I forgot all about it. And recently it has come to my attention that my sewing room must be reorganized. It's really, like, in a rough shape. If somebody looked at it, they wouldn't trust me to make a bed, let alone make a garment. Like, it's become such a mess. And so I started, like, basically pulling everything out of there, running stuff to our storage unit. And then we're going to put in new shelving and like, rebuild it out. But while I was doing that, I uncovered several books that had become buried under fabric that I had been using to research this other subject. And I was like, huh, I wonder how far along I am on that. Maybe I should pick that book.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

So it might still happen. We'll see. Yeah. I don't know.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

My unwieldy topic is definitely happening. It is, I would say, 70% written at this point. Once I got all of my note taking done, it was not like the writing process has gone really quickly on it, but there was just too much left to do for it to have been done in that amount of time. So my one last thing that I have written on my list of notes that I made for myself about the behind the scenes for this. I don't know how I wound up on the Willem Einthoven Wikipedia page, because, like, we don't. That's not. That's not where I'm researching episodes. So I think I might have like, clicked on somebody else's source link on their thing and it turned out to be Wikipedia or whatever. But there is a Jack the Ripper section on the villain Wikipedia page alleging that he was a suspect for being Jack the Ripper. I was shocked by this because until reading that paragraph, I had thought about what a nice guy he seemed to be like. He seemed to be very focused on giving other people credit for their work, even though that, you know, like, he didn't necessarily need to credit someone who did work independently of him where they came to a similar conclusion, but he did. I have no idea what he was like as a person, but the fact that he wanted to split his Nobel money with a earlier assistant, also a thing that I. That just sort of. I was like, this seems like he might have been a nice guy. And then I get to somehow on the Wikipedia page and there's this Jack the Ripper thing. So then I started trying to, like, find out what people saying were saying about him possibly being Jack the Ripper. And I didn't find any other reference to it in any places that have stuff about potential Jack the Ripper suspects.

[Holly Fry]

I have theories.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

You do?

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

Because maybe dabble in more Jack the Ripper reading than you, but.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, well. And I am by no means a Jack the Ripper expert. I'm not an expert either.

[Holly Fry]

But I do love that story.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. It's a whole world of research that I have not touched in any way.

[Holly Fry]

But I will say there are two things that are like, oh, I see how he got on the list One is that almost any doctor practicing at the time got on the list at some point. The other is that he was a foreigner.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Sure.

[Holly Fry]

And a doctor. And that that's like the double trouble of, well, you have an accent, you clearly must hate women and be weird. So I think that's probably all it was. Or maybe he was a super creeper. I don't know. But that pattern plays out a lot if you look at a lot of the medical professionals in the area at the time. It was like the cross hatching of like doctors, check. Doctors who are foreign born. Check, check, check, check, check. Like it automatically and exponentially increase their suspect level for the authorities.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, it was one of those things where I was like, where did this information come from? And it's got that tag on Wikipedia of citation needed. And I wasn't able to like reverse engineer any sort of citation for it. So anyway, I think that's all I've really got to say about electrocardiograms and today's behind the scenes.

[Holly Fry]

I'll say hooray for them.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Older than I realized they were. I mean, I knew how that they are critical to cardiac care. I don't think I had a sense of just how many different things can be detected in one until really working on this.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hi, Zoe Saldana.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Welcome to T Mobile.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us. Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need to trade in. When you switch to T Mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

There's always a trade in.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Not right now. @ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma.

[Holly Fry]

That's okay.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

It's lavender.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I'm good. Seriously, Let me check this pocket.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh, mints.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I've got cupcakes in the car.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile, get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us, no trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits. New line, $100 plus a month on experience beyond finance agreement, $999.99 and qualifying forwarded for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection. Charge payout via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits and balance due if you pay off early or cancel.

[Tom Yamas]

See T mobile.com this July 4th celebrate freedom from spills, stains and overpriced furniture with Annabe, the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget friendly pricing. Sofas start at just $699, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Annabe's pet friendly, Stain resistant and interchangeable slipcovers are made with high performance fabric that's built for real life. You'll love the cloud like comfort of hypoallergenic high resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time with modular pieces you can rearrange anytime. It's a sofa that adapts to to your Life. Now through July 4th get up to 60% off site [e-mail] Every order comes with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping, no restocking fees. Every penny back. Declare independence from dirty outdated furniture. Shop [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos, but now the old gays pull back the cur Their brand new podcast Silver Linings with the Old Gays, brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Veiv Healthcare. With over 300 years of experience between them, hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Jesse serve four lifetimes of wisdom when it comes to love, sex, community and whatever else they've got on the gay agenda. Listen in to these fabulous friends, swap stories exploring how queer life has evolved over the decades and the silver linings they've collected along the way. Each episode dives into hot topics, from safe sex and online dating to untangling Gen Z lingo, as well as insights on how music, art and fashion show up in queer culture. So check out Silver Linings, a show about how pride ages like fine wine, available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway, now through June 24. Score hot summer savings and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags on items like Kraft Mac and Cheese, Celsius energy drinks, Quaker Chewy bars and sparkling ice flavored water. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions. Apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

[Holly Fry]

We talked about Albert Bierstadt this week. Indeed, I almost said this weekend. I mean, I did talk about him in the preceding weekend with friends and my husband, but that's not the same. His work is so staggeringly beautiful that the almost clinical way he approached it boggles my mind.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Occasionally when we talk about somebody having talent, like, I will hear objections to the idea of talent as a. As a thing. And it's like, there are definitely people who find some things that come very easily to them.

[Holly Fry]

Yes.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And so when it comes to things like artistic talent, there are for sure people who find the process of making art and learning how to do it comes easy to them. And also people who, like, really have to work at it, and it feels like more of a struggle. And I don't know how he personally felt about the process of learning to make art, but it is. Does seem clear from, like, the episode as you wrote it, that it was something that he intentionally worked toward, not something that he necessarily just felt an aptitude for from the beginning. No.

[Holly Fry]

And I couldn't find the accounts, but in that lecture that we mentioned that was given by Karen Quinn, I couldn't. I couldn't find her. But she mentioned that accounts by his family are like, yeah, he wasn't actually very good at all, like, growing up. We don't know how this happened. I mean, they know that he studied, but it wasn't like he was like a wunderkind that was like, oh, this child will become a great painter. He will become one of the best known painters of our lives.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Nobody knew that. Yeah. I remember being in, you know, art class in elementary school, and there was one kid who could just sketch these amazing lifelike sketches of people while the entire rest of the class was like, one step up from finger painting. And it does not sound like that that was the case with him.

[Holly Fry]

No, not at all. I will say, though, his family did.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Seem to have.

[Holly Fry]

An interest in visual media. And I say that because we mentioned in the episode that he was a pretty quick adopter of photography as a reference collection tool.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

And his brothers also did a lot of photography. One of his brothers became a professional photographer. And I found in one thing that I looked at a mention that he had actually opened a photography studio with his brothers that was quite successful, but I couldn't ever find verification of that, so I didn't include it in the episode. It May be that he financially backed them and he wasn't really involved in that business at all. But one of his brothers did have a lot of photography credits and helped him capture imagery sometimes when they traveled together. And I think his other brother also did some. So, I mean, again, I don't know much about that brother and whether or not he was like, I love photography. It's my passion. Or if he was like, photographs seem lucrative. I really don't know. And I thought that quote that we included towards the end, that was written shortly before he died, was really germane in all of this, because that line, skill prevails over imagination in the Dusseldorf artists. I mean, these are skillfully executed paintings. They are absolutely beautiful, in my opinion. The way I understand why our listener Elle, who wrote in, was completely captivated by it. Because the dramatic of lighting in particular is just. It will stop you in your tracks. It's so beautiful. And it gets into a bigger discussion of the creator versus the audience and what the truly important part of that equation is. Right. It doesn't matter that he wasn't necessarily like, I'm stricken with pain at the beauty of this. I must paint it. And was instead, like, snap a picture of that. Snap a picture of that. I'm paint this in my studio later. It doesn't matter to me that that was how that played out. Because what matters to me is that a person was emotionally moved by it later. Right?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. So that's a whole big discussion of art. There are a lot of interesting discussions going on in the art world right now about the meaning of the finances of art and, like, how art becomes treasured to a degree that the average person cannot possess art. And, like, what it means to actually, like, the inflation of art value and what art value means, which gets very heady and interesting. There are lots of interesting discussions you can find about it. But, I mean, my thing has always been I don't care if this person was doing this for any particular reason. I don't care if they were moved. I'm sure, moved by it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Like, yeah, I mostly see this kind of discourse in the context of writing rather than visual art, just because of the kinds of folks that I tend to follow. And I would say I am familiar with the ongoing work of way more current writers than current visual artists. And I will often see discussions of the fact that the way we talk about writing and the way we talk about creativity, a lot of times people put this almost supernatural spin on it when, like, it's work. Yeah, it's Work and people should be paid for their work. And the like. Mythologizing of the whole creative process does a disservice to. To writing and other creative work from multiple angles.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. I mean, in the art world, this is a big part of that discussion. Right. Like, an artist is a professional maker of art, and they should be paid for their time and their effort and the time and effort that they spent, you know, getting educated or practicing or whatever to get to the point that they can make something that you find of value enough that you want to have it in your home or in your life or whatever. This gets me on another soapbox, but it's that juxtaposed against this person painted a piece of art. And in a lot of cases, like in modern art, sometimes people will be like, I don't see the technique in this. And yet it commands high four, low five price tag, you know, five digit price tag. And people not understanding why that would be. And it is like a bigger discussion too, about economic demand and markets and what people are actually paying for. Is it really the art or is it the status of owning the art? Like, it's so heady and it's such a long and big thing. But my other thing is this. If you like art, and we are also in a world where, on the upside, artists and access to art has become a little more democratized in some ways. Right. You can find a lot of people online selling their art that make absolutely beautiful and incredible pieces of work. But often, because I do have a lot of friends that are artists, it is shocking and mortifying to me how many people will try to haggle an artist down from their asking price. And it's like, because people think you made this, you could make more. Why do you want so much money? You can just make another one. And it's like, no, because I spent time making this one.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

That is what you're paying for.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. I also spent the time, like, learning and practicing and honing my craft and honing my art.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. It's wild to me. We believe in paying artists in this household. I feel strongly about this issue.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. On my trip to Asheville from a few weeks ago, at this point, they were having a festival in the River Arts District, which was one of the places that was devastated by Helene with some of the. With a lot of galleries and studios just absolutely destroyed. And if you look at the map of the River Arts District before Helene, it is maybe three times as big as the map of what was open when I was there. And I Literally just walked around buying small pieces of art from people. Anything I saw that I liked, that I thought, okay, I can get this in my luggage. Going home, I just bought it. And I don't remember what the point was of this, besides the fact that I loved seeing how many people there were who were out there selling their art and how different some of it was from each other.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And I love that. And I love that, you know, there is a place that, you know, all of these various artists, like, created a place that was a home for this that they are now recreating in the aftermath of the hurricane.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, yeah. I'm such a believer in patronizing artists as much as you can. I think I've said before that my. My tattoo artist owns an art gallery, and it's a portion of the gallery space is what's set aside for tattoos. And so it is the dangerous equation of me sitting there for several hours at a time looking at beautiful art and not coming home, having purchased something. There are so many times that I'm like, brian, there's painting in the car, right? He's like, okay. And I love it there so much that that is where I had my. My birthday this year. I had a bunch of friends and we went to the gallery and they closed the gallery for us, and they designed flash just for us. And we all got tattoos and looked at art. And several of my friends were like, oh, I see why this is, in fact, a problem.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right, right, right.

[Holly Fry]

Which is wonderful. More people patronize artists, take care of the artists. There are lots of people that need patronizing, not in the negative and pejorative sense of that word, but in terms of, like, supporting them in their careers. Artists are but one, but they're one that is very special to me. So if this is your weekend coming up, you can either buy some art from a local artist or you can go to a museum and appreciate art that way that also supports the arts. If you don't have time off, I hope you get to look at something pretty that makes your heart feel good and happy and whole or evokes something in you that is important and meaningful to you. I hope everybody's nice to each other and that we find ways to. To appreciate each other and art and the joyous things in the world as much as we can. I know that's hard sometimes, but it's really important. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode. And then on Monday, we will have something Brand new.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway, now through June 24. Score hot summer savings and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags on items like Kraft Mac and Cheese, Celsius energy drinks, Quaker Chewy bars and sparkling ice flavored water. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions, apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details. In 2012, 16 year old Brian Herrera was gunned down in broad daylight on his way to do homework. No suspects, no witnesses, no justice.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I would ask my husband, do you.

[Holly Fry]

Want me to stop? He was like, no, keep fighting.

[Ryan Seacrest]

After nearly a decade, a breakthrough changed everything. This is Cold Case Files Miami, stories of families who never stopped fighting. Listen to Cold Case Files Miami on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to the youe versus you podcast. I'm Lex Borrero inviting you to go beyond the titles and the accolades of.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The world's most successful entertainment entertainers. Each week we take off the cape and get real about the inner battles, childhood stories, and the moments that shaped our guests.

[Holly Fry]

Get inspired to become the best version of you. Listen to youo vs you podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator and seeker of mail validation.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I'm also the girl behind Voiceover, the.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Movement that exploded in 2024.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You might hear that term and think.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

It'S about celibacy, but to me, voiceover.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it.

[Holly Fry]

No.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.