Stuff You Missed in History Class
Episode: Behind the Scenes Minis: Incorrect Lillian and Reading Kids
Release Date: March 14, 2025
Hosts: Holly Fry & Tracy B. Wilson
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts

Introduction

In this episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class, hosts Holly Fry and Tracy B. Wilson delve into the intriguing yet contentious history of Lillian Exum Clement Stafford. They explore the challenges faced during research, uncovering inaccuracies in historical records, and the broader implications of these discrepancies.

Research Challenges and Inaccuracies

Tracy B. Wilson opens the discussion by expressing her fascination with Lillian Exum Clement Stafford, highlighting the absence of comprehensive biographies about her. She remarks:

“To my knowledge, there has been no biography of her written... a lot of the research... came from local newspaper and magazine articles from western North Carolina specifically”
[02:21]

Tracy points out significant inconsistencies in the available sources, particularly concerning Stafford's legislative contributions. She notes confusion around her involvement with traffic signals and eugenics legislation:

“I just couldn't find anything about traffic signals in any of that at all.”
[03:00]

Similarly, Tracy challenges claims about Stafford introducing eugenics legislation, stating:

“I was keyword searching... and just finding nothing.”
[03:15]

Frustrations with Historical Reporting

The hosts discuss the prevalence of errors in local reporting. Tracy shares her frustration with incorrect information persisting in obituaries and historical records, such as misinformation about Stafford's cause of death:

“One of the articles... said that she had died of pneumonia during the Spanish flu... in 1925.”
[05:05]

Holly adds to this by questioning peculiar historical references, such as why Stafford's brother was referred to as "Clement":

“Why were they calling her brother Clement?”
[08:40]

Tracy theorizes that this may stem from gender biases in legislative settings:

“They had never really thought about what would happen if somebody changed their last name... always only been men before that.”
[09:23]

Correspondence with BG Crisp

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing a letter from BG Crisp of Manio to Lillian Stafford. Tracy reads a passage from Crisp's letter:

“I merely wish to express in writing the high admiration... Your course was such as to challenge the highest admiration...”
[07:00]

Tracy interprets the letter as Crisp attempting to reconcile his opposition to the 19th Amendment with his respect for Stafford's capabilities, noting the complexity of their professional relationship.

Naming Conventions and Gender Dynamics

The conversation shifts to broader societal issues, particularly the challenges women faced (and continue to face) regarding name changes after marriage. Tracy shares personal anecdotes about the complications of maintaining professional identities amidst changing surnames:

“There are women that I know in careers... but some of it is... I don't want to confuse anybody.”
[10:00]

Holly relates by discussing her own experiences with common names and the difficulties in maintaining recognition in professional fields.

Historical Markers and Legacy

The hosts touch upon the legacy of Stafford in Asheville, mentioning a historical marker and one of her suits displayed in a local museum:

“One of her suits is on display at one of the museums there. It's quite a smart suit.”
[12:34]

Tracy expresses a desire for a comprehensive biography to answer lingering questions about Stafford's life and contributions.

Personal Reflections and Closing Thoughts

As the episode nears its end, Holly and Tracy reflect on the joys and challenges of revisiting childhood favorites and the importance of historical accuracy. Holly shares a charming story about how Lillian Stafford and her siblings measured distances using their wagon's wheel circumference:

“They measured the circumference of the wagon wheels... that is 2.6 miles away from our house.”
[23:01]

Tracy and Holly emphasize the value of preserving historical records accurately and the comfort derived from reconnecting with cherished childhood stories.

Conclusion

In this episode, Holly Fry and Tracy B. Wilson provide a meticulous exploration of Lillian Exum Clement Stafford's life, shedding light on the difficulties of historical research and the enduring impact of inaccuracies in historical narratives. Their engaging dialogue invites listeners to appreciate the complexities of uncovering and preserving history.

Notable Quotes:

• Tracy B. Wilson:
  “I was keyword searching for all of the relevant words... and just finding nothing.”
  [03:15]

• Tracy B. Wilson:
  “She was reported as having died of pneumonia that may have been flu related, but like, the Spanish flu was not what was happening Right.”
  [05:30]

• Tracy B. Wilson:
  “There are women that I know in careers where they're like, well, I got married and I took my husband's name socially, but professionally, I'm still this.”
  [10:00]

• Holly Fry:
  “Revisiting the Boxcar Children honestly made me so happy. I had quite forgotten about their dog Watch and his whole little substory.”
  [31:09]

Listen to this episode on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.