Behind the Scenes Minis: Incorrect Lillian and Reading Kids

Summary

Stuff You Missed in History Class
Episode: Behind the Scenes Minis: Incorrect Lillian and Reading Kids
Release Date: March 14, 2025
Hosts: Holly Fry & Tracy B. Wilson
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts

---

Introduction

In this episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class, hosts Holly Fry and Tracy B. Wilson delve into the intriguing yet contentious history of Lillian Exum Clement Stafford. They explore the challenges faced during research, uncovering inaccuracies in historical records, and the broader implications of these discrepancies.

---

Research Challenges and Inaccuracies

Tracy B. Wilson opens the discussion by expressing her fascination with Lillian Exum Clement Stafford, highlighting the absence of comprehensive biographies about her. She remarks:

“To my knowledge, there has been no biography of her written... a lot of the research... came from local newspaper and magazine articles from western North Carolina specifically”
[02:21]

Tracy points out significant inconsistencies in the available sources, particularly concerning Stafford's legislative contributions. She notes confusion around her involvement with traffic signals and eugenics legislation:

“I just couldn't find anything about traffic signals in any of that at all.”
[03:00]

Similarly, Tracy challenges claims about Stafford introducing eugenics legislation, stating:

“I was keyword searching... and just finding nothing.”
[03:15]

---

Frustrations with Historical Reporting

The hosts discuss the prevalence of errors in local reporting. Tracy shares her frustration with incorrect information persisting in obituaries and historical records, such as misinformation about Stafford's cause of death:

“One of the articles... said that she had died of pneumonia during the Spanish flu... in 1925.”
[05:05]

Holly adds to this by questioning peculiar historical references, such as why Stafford's brother was referred to as "Clement":

“Why were they calling her brother Clement?”
[08:40]

Tracy theorizes that this may stem from gender biases in legislative settings:

“They had never really thought about what would happen if somebody changed their last name... always only been men before that.”
[09:23]

---

Correspondence with BG Crisp

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing a letter from BG Crisp of Manio to Lillian Stafford. Tracy reads a passage from Crisp's letter:

“I merely wish to express in writing the high admiration... Your course was such as to challenge the highest admiration...”
[07:00]

Tracy interprets the letter as Crisp attempting to reconcile his opposition to the 19th Amendment with his respect for Stafford's capabilities, noting the complexity of their professional relationship.

---

Naming Conventions and Gender Dynamics

The conversation shifts to broader societal issues, particularly the challenges women faced (and continue to face) regarding name changes after marriage. Tracy shares personal anecdotes about the complications of maintaining professional identities amidst changing surnames:

“There are women that I know in careers... but some of it is... I don't want to confuse anybody.”
[10:00]

Holly relates by discussing her own experiences with common names and the difficulties in maintaining recognition in professional fields.

---

Historical Markers and Legacy

The hosts touch upon the legacy of Stafford in Asheville, mentioning a historical marker and one of her suits displayed in a local museum:

“One of her suits is on display at one of the museums there. It's quite a smart suit.”
[12:34]

Tracy expresses a desire for a comprehensive biography to answer lingering questions about Stafford's life and contributions.

---

Personal Reflections and Closing Thoughts

As the episode nears its end, Holly and Tracy reflect on the joys and challenges of revisiting childhood favorites and the importance of historical accuracy. Holly shares a charming story about how Lillian Stafford and her siblings measured distances using their wagon's wheel circumference:

“They measured the circumference of the wagon wheels... that is 2.6 miles away from our house.”
[23:01]

Tracy and Holly emphasize the value of preserving historical records accurately and the comfort derived from reconnecting with cherished childhood stories.

---

Conclusion

In this episode, Holly Fry and Tracy B. Wilson provide a meticulous exploration of Lillian Exum Clement Stafford's life, shedding light on the difficulties of historical research and the enduring impact of inaccuracies in historical narratives. Their engaging dialogue invites listeners to appreciate the complexities of uncovering and preserving history.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Tracy B. Wilson:
  “I was keyword searching for all of the relevant words... and just finding nothing.”
  [03:15]

• Tracy B. Wilson:
  “She was reported as having died of pneumonia that may have been flu related, but like, the Spanish flu was not what was happening Right.”
  [05:30]

• Tracy B. Wilson:
  “There are women that I know in careers where they're like, well, I got married and I took my husband's name socially, but professionally, I'm still this.”
  [10:00]

• Holly Fry:
  “Revisiting the Boxcar Children honestly made me so happy. I had quite forgotten about their dog Watch and his whole little substory.”
  [31:09]

---

Listen to this episode on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Holly Fry]

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[Jamie Petras]

Our iHeartRadio Music Awards are coming back Monday, March 17th on Fox. Starring Bad Bunny Glorilla, Kenny Chesney, Money.

[Maria Tremarque]

Long Nelly, your host iheartradio LL Cool J.

[Holly Fry]

Are you guys ready to have some fun tonight?

[Maria Tremarque]

Plus iHeart Innovator Award recipient Lady Gaga.

[Jamie Petras]

Iheart Icon Award recipient Mariah Carey, and.

[Maria Tremarque]

Iheart Breakthrough Award recipient Gracie Abrams.

[Jamie Petras]

Watch live on Fox Monday, March 17th at Central.

[Maria Tremarque]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarque]

Each season we explore a new theme, from poisoners to art thieves.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarque]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by easy each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mark Seale.

[Nathan King]

And I'm Nathan King.

[Holly Fry]

This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli.

[Jamie Petras]

The five families did not want us.

[Holly Fry]

To shoot that picture.

[Nathan King]

This podcast is based on my co host Mark Seale's best selling book of the same title. Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Caan, Talia Shire, Ed, and many others.

[Holly Fry]

Yes, that was a real horse's head.

[Nathan King]

Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And I'm this week we talked about Lillian Exum Clement Stafford, who I find so interesting and so cool in so many ways. Except for the United Daughters of the Confederacy and the eugenics part. Not a fan of either of those. So to my knowledge, there has been no, like, biography of her written, which means that a lot of the research, like the initial research for the episode included a lot of things which, as we said in the episode, had come from local newspaper and magazine articles from western North Carolina specifically, or from the state of North Carolina, not things that have source lists or footnotes or anything like that. So some of the things that they would reference, I was like, where are you getting this? Where did this traffic light thing came from? Come from? Like, I could not find anything in either of the. The legislative session records from, like, the session that she was in in January through March and then the extra session that started in December. Like, I just couldn't find anything about traffic signals in any of that at all. Similarly, like, where are you getting this about her introducing eugenics legislation? Like, I did not read, line by line, all 8 or 900 total pages of these documents. Right. I was, I was keyword searching for all of the relevant words that could have been used in this kind of legislation and just finding nothing. So it's like, I don't, I don't know where that came from. But also there were just so many mistakes in so many of these articles. There was the birth year confusion, which is absolutely understandable. It like, when there are that many different years in the written records of a person and your job is to write a brief newspaper feature on somebody, you're probably. It's like, it's less likely that you're gonna stumble onto the fact that these. None of these ages line up.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The things about the birth order totally make sense that, like, there would be questions and misinformation based on the weird birth years. But like the ide. There are a lot of articles that say that an all male electorate voted for her in the general election. And that's just an easy one to see. Is not the case.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

But it is in so many places. I. One of the articles that I read about her said that she had died of pneumonia during the Spanish flu. Spanish flu. We've done episodes about before that happened from 1918 to 1919. Sort of trailed off after that. Definitely not having something we call the Spanish flu in 1925.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And I mean, she.

[Holly Fry]

No, Tracy, it was a weird, dormant strain.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Like, she, she's reported as having died of pneumonia that may have been flu related, but like, the Spanish flu was not what was happening Right. At that point. So I just, I just, I don't. I got a little frustrated with that. And then when I realized that some of those things go all the way back to her obituaries. I was like, she. She died. Like, she. She died five years after the 19th Amendment was ratified. Like, that's not a big amount of time to have passed. So anyway, I. I got frustrated about all of that. My little note of what to talk about in behind the Scenes has just sort of a keyboard smash in. My expression of my frustration about this, something that I had put in here in the episode that I wound up taking out, because it just. It felt like an aside that was kind of interrupting the narrative is that on March 22, 1921. So after the main legislative session was over, fellow representative BG Crisp of Manio wrote her a letter. And I found this letter. I was like, this. This person, I think, would be a reply guy today. So BG Crisp had been very staunchly and vocally against the ratification of the 19th Amendment, and he wrote her this letter. There's a quote from it. Quote. I merely wish to express in writing the high admiration that I, with all other fellow members of the General assembly of 1921, have for you as a most intelligent and worthy representative who has made lasting impression upon all who observed you in that capacity. Your course was such as to challenge the highest admiration of all who observed it. And I happen to know some who, like myself, were bitterly opposed to the ratification of the 19th Amendment, were most interested observers. It's like he wanted to basically make sure that. That she knew that it wasn't that he had been opposed to women having the right to vote, but that he thought that it should have been left up to the states and not a constitutional amendment. This was just kind of a weird letter. I was like, I feel like you felt the need to write to her and justify yourself. Yeah. After the legislation, the legislative session was over.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Also, in just a throwback to a recent episode, as I was just trying to confirm things about her life that I had not been able to really track down, I was looking at the newspaper reporting of her time in the legislature one day, the giant front page headline was about investigation into Pellagra. Just the whole. The whole entitle. The whole entire, like, front page, whole headline space covering the entire width of it.

[Holly Fry]

I have a question.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Tell me what your question is.

[Holly Fry]

Why were they calling her brother Clement?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I think they were just calling her brother because they called each other brother. And so she was now part of their governing body, and so they also called her brother.

[Holly Fry]

I mean, I guess it's like on Star Trek when they Call all the women captains, sir.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh, sure. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

But I don't know, it just struck me as the oddest thing. And I don't know why I kept getting really. I kept thinking about it while we were talking, and I'm like, why was that a good thing? I don't.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Well, in my. Like, that's sort of my conclusion of what was happening. Sort of like the fact that they had never really thought about what would happen if somebody changed their last name.

[Holly Fry]

Right. Cause they'd never had to think about it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. It had always only been men before that. And so they had never really had to think about what they would need to call a fellow legisl or a fellow attorney if that attorney or legislator was not a man.

[Holly Fry]

Right. I mean, I actually feel like that, too, is one of those things that persists a little bit. Right. Like, there are women that I know in careers where they're like, well, I got married and I took my husband's name socially, but professionally, I'm still this.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And I don't know if that's because it's a complicated thing. There's no one thing. Right. But I don't know how much of that is weighted by the fact that it would just be harder to rebuild the recognition that they've achieved in their field or if some of it is. I don't want to confuse anybody. And I mean, a lot of people now don't even do the name change, which is also perfectly fine. You did not change your name.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

No, I did.

[Holly Fry]

I had one of the most boring, common names on earth. I was ready to, like, my name was. My maiden name was so common that when I told people it, they said, you are a liar. And I would have to whip out my ID and be like, nope, that's really my name.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Well, there were multiple Tracy Wilsons at my high school. And so when somebody was called to come to the office, they would have to put a middle initial in there. And the fact that Tracy Wilson is such a common name is why I have always used my middle initial professionally. And then I got married at the age of 40, at which point I had, you know, two decades of professional working experience under the last name Wilson. And so that just seemed like a lot of effort.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

To try to change stuff around. Now I'm thankful. Like, it just. It's a lot of work to change your name. And now it's like, wow. Now, since people are introducing legislation requiring names to match birth certificates, the fact that my name still does is like an Extra convenience to me.

[Holly Fry]

I'll just vanish into the night.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Legislation requiring your ID to match your birth certificate in order to vote is bad. I will just put out my feeling on that. Yeah, it is bad for a lot of people.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I don't if you're going to write me an email saying, but there'll be a form to fill out, I don't care. Overwhelmingly men won't have to fill out that form.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Anyway, I'm hoping to visit Asheville in the near future. I will almost certainly drive by that historical marker at some point. I am sure I have driven before it now. I have been to Asheville since when it was put up. So I don't think I ever noticed it prior to learning about this, Learning that she existed from a different podcast.

[Holly Fry]

One of her suits is on display at one of the museums there.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh, nice.

[Holly Fry]

Trying to remember which one. It's quite a smart suit. I quite like it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah, she looks lovely. In every picture of her that I've seen, she's very smartly dressed and very, very like neatly styled hair. So, yeah, I wish there were a full length biography of her that would answer some questions that I have. Some of the things that I'm like, I don't know, it's totally possible that there is documentation of it somewhere that's, you know, not digitized, not generally available to the public, or that it is. And I just didn't find that in all of my research. This morning before we came in here to record, I did a second pass just to like, try again to see. Number one, is there anything I can find about her family in relation to the 1916 flood? Number two, is there anything I can find about her or her family in relation to the Spanish flu? Because she was actually alive when that happened. And my second pass first thing this morning found nothing about either of them. So.

[Jamie Petras]

September 1979. Virginia's top prison band, Edge of Daybreak, is about to record their debut album, Behind Bars in just five hours.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay, we're rolling.

[Holly Fry]

One, two, three, four.

[Jamie Petras]

I'm Jamie Petras, music and culture writer. For the past five years, I've been talking to the band's three surviving members. They're out of prison now and in their 70s, their past behind them. But they also have some unfinished business.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The Eddy Daybreak Eyes of Love was.

[Holly Fry]

Supposed to have been followed up by another album.

[Jamie Petras]

It's a story about the liberating power of music, the American justice system, and ultimately, second chances. Listen to Soul incarcerated on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarque]

I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan Roth]

Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast this Is Working can help with that. Here's advice from Google CMO Lorraine Twohill on how to treat AI like a partner.

[Holly Fry]

I see AI as an incredible co pilot. You may use different tools or toys to get the work done, but ultimately as editor, as creator, as maker, you own it and it needs to be good. AI is just the latest flavor of that. You're still the judge of what good looks like.

[Dan Roth]

I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor in chief. On my podcast this Is Working Leaders like Indra Nooyi, Ray Dalio, and Rich Paul share strategies for success and the real lessons that have shaped them. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarque]

Welcome to Pod of Rebellion, our new Star Wars Rebels Rewatch podcast. I'm Vanessa Marshall. Hi, I'm Tia Sircar.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I'm Taylor Gray.

[John Lee Brody]

And I'm John Lee Brody.

[Maria Tremarque]

But you may also know us as Harrison Dula, Spectre 2, Sabine Wren, Specter.

[Nathan King]

5 and Ezra Bridger, Spectre 6 from Star Wars Rebels.

[John Lee Brody]

Wait, I wasn't on Star Wars Rebels. Am I in the right place?

[Maria Tremarque]

Absolutely. Each week we're going to re and discuss an episode from the series and.

[Holly Fry]

Share some fun behind the scenes stories.

[John Lee Brody]

Sometimes we'll be visited by special guests like Steve Blume voices Zaborillio Spectre 4, or Dante Bosco voicing Jai Kell and many others.

[Maria Tremarque]

Sometimes we'll even have a lively debate.

[Holly Fry]

And we'll have plenty of other fun.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Surprises and trivia too.

[John Lee Brody]

Oh, and me. Well, I'm the lucky ghost crew Stowaway who gets to help moderate and guide the discussion each week. Kinda like how Kanan guided Ezra in the ways of the Force. You see what I did there?

[Maria Tremarque]

Nicely done, John.

[John Lee Brody]

Thanks Tia.

[Maria Tremarque]

So hang on cause it's gonna be a fun ride. Cue the music.

[John Lee Brody]

Listen to Potter Rebellion on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

We talked at the top of the episode about Gertrude Chandler Warner that you didn't read the boxcar chandelier.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I really don't think I did.

[Holly Fry]

So I had this experience where I picked them up when I was still living in the Pacific Northwest and just mainlined them. I was obsessed with them and I had found them in my school library. And then when I was nine, we moved to the Gulf coast. And I remember thinking like, okay, I will look for them in the library there. And they didn't know what I was talking about. None of those kids had ever heard of it. It sounded like some weird far off thing that like I had made up. And then when you were like, I never read them, I'm like, was this not popular in the South?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, I don't know, it might have just been me. Cause I like, I started reading pretty early and I read a lot. Like I was one of those kids that would get in trouble reading. Oh, same in class. Instead of doing or reading ahead when we were reading aloud.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, I got yelled at.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, I had a lot of problems with that. But I think because I had started reading so early, I A lot of times would read books that I felt like were more grown up. Yeah. I could be really resistant to books that I felt like were gonna be babyish. And I think I might have had that impression about the boxcar.

[Holly Fry]

Well, I started reading em when I was seven.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Like I'm not like I've definitely heard of these books. Right. I know what they are, but I don't think I ever read any of them.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, I'm tickled. Cause I definitely had a mix of. I did the fashion thing of mix your high and low to get personal style. Because as we've talked about before, I read Drum and Capote's In Cold Blood when I was way too young to be reading. Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. I tried to read like a totally. Like not a, not an adaptation for younger readers, but the full on book Jane Eyre when I was in like fifth grade. And then when I read Jane Eyre again in college, I was like, wow.

[Holly Fry]

Sure missed a lot of this.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Sure didn't really realize what was going on in this book.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, my book like that was Neuromancer. Cause I found it when I was 12. Yeah. And I read it and I really enjoyed it. But then when I went back and read it as an adult, I was like, what was I doing with this book in my hand? I missed so many things. It just tickles me. I will say this, I want to be very careful because I don't like to criticize other people's. Creative work.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

I listen to audiobooks all the time. I love them. My husband doesn't love them because he doesn't like hearing other people read things, because it's not usually the way he would read it if he were reading aloud. And he finds that jarring, totally fine. But because I knew I wasn't, I was trying to multitask a bunch of things. And I was like, I'll listen to the audiobook version of the first book, by which I mean the 1942 version, to catch up. Cause it's only a couple hours long. I can do it while I'm running around the house doing prep work, taking care of animals, et cetera. And the narrator who does. The one that I read, does the voices of the children. I did not enjoy that at all. I kind of got used to it. But it was a little rough. It was a little rough. But I will say there are in many cases, if you experience something like this, dear listener, in some cases, particularly very popular books like this or Dracula, which I have mentioned listening to a lot of lately, there are often multiple versions of audiobooks, so you can see if you have another option that doesn't. That doesn't quite great on you. I did not do that. I was like, I already have it in the thing. I'm just gonna gun it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Most of my audiobook listening is, like, on road trips, on some kind of travel, where I'm gonna be sitting in a place wanting a way to, like, occupy my mind. Yeah. Because. Or, you know, if. If there was something I was really into, I would listen while walking around or doing stuff around the house. But that's also when I listen to the podcasts that I listen to. So audiobooks are just not as big of a thing for me.

[Holly Fry]

I listen to a lot of them.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

More likely gonna, like, read a book?

[Holly Fry]

No, I'll go right to sleep. I think, because we read so much for this job.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

That's true, too.

[Holly Fry]

That I'm like, reading for leisure. Doesn't feel quite the same as it used to to me. And my brain just goes, no, thank you. Why don't we stare in the middle distance for a minute? There are some very cute stories of Gertrude Chandler Warner and her siblings growing up. And like I said, their youth seems almost idyllic. But one of the things that I thought was very cute and really quite ingenious is that they were trying to figure out distances from their house to other places in town, and they measured the circumference of the wagon wheels on their family's wagon. And then they tied a rag to one of the spokes of it, and they would count how many rotations it made from their house to their destination. And then they would multiply that by the circumference of the wagon wheel and be like, that is 2.6 miles away from our house.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

That's amazing.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm like, this is the most ingenious thing I've ever heard for, like three little kids to come up with this. I don't know how little they were at the time, but I just thought that was very, very charming.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jamie Petras]

September 1979. Virginia's top prison band, Edge of Daybreak, is about to record their debut album, Behind Bars in just five hours.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay, we're rolling.

[Holly Fry]

One, two, three, four.

[Jamie Petras]

I'm Jamie Petras, music and culture writer. For the past five years, I've been talking to the band's three surviving members. They're out of prison now and in their 70s, their past behind them. But they also have some unfinished business.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The end of Daybreak, Eyes of Love.

[Holly Fry]

Was supposed to have been followed up by another album.

[Jamie Petras]

It's a story about the liberating power of music, the American justice system, and ultimately, second chances. Listen to soul incarcerated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarque]

I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the Greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan Roth]

Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast this Is Working can help with that. Here's advice from Google CMO Lorraine Tuhill on how to treat AI like a partner.

[Holly Fry]

I see AI as an incredible co pilot. You may use different tools or toys to get the work done, but ultimately, as editor, as creator, as maker, you own it and it needs to be good. AI is just the latest flavor of that. You're still the judge of what good looks like.

[Dan Roth]

I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor in chief. On my podcast this Is Working. Leaders like Indra Nooy, Ray Dalio, and Rich Paul share strategies for success and the real lessons that have shaped them. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarque]

Welcome to Pod of Rebellion Our new Star Wars Rebels Rewatch podcast. I'm Vanessa Marshall. Hi, I'm Tia Sircar.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I'm Taylor Gray.

[John Lee Brody]

And I'm John Lee Brody.

[Maria Tremarque]

But you may also know us as Harrison Dula, Spectre 2, Sabine Wren, Specter.

[Nathan King]

5, and Ezra Bridger, Specter 6 from Star Wars Rebel.

[John Lee Brody]

Wait, I wasn't on Star Wars Rebels. Am I in the right place?

[Maria Tremarque]

Absolutely. Each week we're going to rewatch and discuss an episode from the series and.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Share some fun behind the scenes stories.

[John Lee Brody]

Sometimes we'll be visited by special guests like Steve bloom voices Zaborelio's Spectre 4, or Dante Bosco voicing Jai Kell and many others.

[Maria Tremarque]

Sometimes we'll even have a lively debate.

[Holly Fry]

And we'll have plenty of other fun.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Surprises and trivia too.

[John Lee Brody]

Oh, and me, well, I'm the lucky ghost crew Stowaway, who gets to help moderate and guide the discussion each week. Kind of like how Kanan guided Ezra in the ways of the Force. You see what I did there?

[Maria Tremarque]

Nicely done, John.

[John Lee Brody]

Thanks, Tia.

[Maria Tremarque]

So hang on. Cause it's gonna be a fun ride.

[Holly Fry]

Cue the music.

[John Lee Brody]

Listen to Potter Rebellion on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Here's the thing that was wild to me, the way she wrote her books. And when I read it at first I was like, are you saying this is how she did it when she was a kid? Nope. Pretty much the whole time until presumably her eyesight started to fail. She had a typewriter, but she didn't love it. And she usually did four passes on any of her books to do her own editing and get the manuscript to a point she liked. But her first pass, she would get a notebook and write in it with a pencil. And she would write only on the right hand facing pages. And when she got to the end of the notebook, she would flip it over and then continue on what was then the empty right hand facing pages the other way.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

That's wild.

[Holly Fry]

That was exactly what I said. And also it made my hand crampy. Cause that's a lot of handwriting. I know people used to handwrite that much, but. Oof, Hand crampy.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

We've talked about how I find writing with a pen laborious.

[Holly Fry]

And so, I mean, I don't. That's actually how I prefer to keep a lot of my lists and stuff. There's just something about the tactile nature of it that I really love. But I can't imagine writing a paragraph, let alone like, I'm talking bullet lists. I Can't. Like a manuscript sounds really, really intense and unfun. But that idea of like half a notebook one way, half the other way. I'm like, that's the way that, like suspicious people write manifestos. What are you doing? Gertrude? Gertrude. What is going on? But it worked for her, apparently. Okay. I just thought that was nutty. She also had this one piece of advice that I stumbled across for writers that I really liked. Because she recognized that, you know, because she did her own editing a lot before she ever handed off a book. She too had the same thing that all of us have when we write, which is like you look at something you wrote and you're like, dear Greedo, I'm terrible at this. But her thing was, don't ever throw anything away because you might want it later. And I'm like, that's actually a really good policy. It's hard. You sometimes wanna destroy the evidence of mediocrity. But she's like, don't do it. Don't do it. One thing we didn't talk about that will come up a little on our upcoming episode about children's morality code was that. And I will tell you why we didn't talk about it. Was the sort of inherent Christian morality of a lot of her work. Because she isn't heavy handed about it. There are not mentions of any kind of religion or, you know, God or anything. But she did publish a book that I couldn't find much information about other than just a mention in one of those pretty simple biographies I read. Which is that she published a book in collaboration with a missionary named Laila Anderson. And this person apparently had a parakeet named Peter Piper that traveled the world with her on these missionary trips.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

And talked and they wrote a book about the bird.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

I really would like to find that book. Like a good copy of that book.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

But I have a feeling it was a very small run. And they're probably in antique shops I haven't uncovered yet.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

But yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Peter Piper, the parakeet. Yeah. Writing manifestos. Anyway, I will say this. This is a thing. I didn't do this on purpose, but I have recognized that I am in our troubled times, revisiting a lot of the things that gave me joy as a kid. And it's very comforting. So I do encourage people, if you had a book that you loved as a child or a game that you love, just anything that you associate with fun times in childhood and delight, it's very soothing to go back and re encounter it for the most Part, obviously you're gonna find things and go, yo, that's racist. Or, oh, sure, this is. But this is problem. But overall, pretty delightful.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Revisiting the Boxcar Children honestly made me so happy. I had quite forgotten about their dog Watch and his whole little substory.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Which is really cute. Just that they find this poor dog wandering in the woods with a big thorn in its paw. And Jess carefully takes the thorn out and the dog becomes like, attached to her at the hip going forward and takes care of the children and warns them when there's trouble. And it's just very sweet. I forgot about Watch the dog. Anyway. Love the Boxcar Children. I have not read any of the modern versions. Some of them have been rewritten. They're essentially the same story she wrote, but they're rewritten with modern scenarios, modern characters, et cetera. And I haven't revisited any of those, so I cannot speak to their value or quality.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

But I love the originals. Even though we don't know why Grandpa hated that Mom.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

We don't know. We don't know. I kept thinking about this is kind of not entirely related, but like Grave of the Fireflies, which is a very incredibly sad film. But most Americans seeing this film interpret it as an anti war film because of the horrific things that the children go through in it. While the filmmaker explicitly said that, no, it's about how children should behave themselves and respect their elders because they were in the care of an aunt and they leave to try to make their way on their own. And that's what I kept thinking about with these children, having a grandfather who was an adult there for them, but instead they went to live in a boxcar. Totally different setup. Not at all like the same tone in any way. But I kept thinking about that.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. And he's like the richest man in town. Everyone knows who he is, which is very funny. So the kids do a lot of hiding of their names. There's an event where they're actually Henry's with a lot of townspeople. And he lies. He only uses his first and middle name and doesn't say his last name because he knows people are looking for him. But he doesn't recognize his grandfather because they never really knew him. So it's a. It's. It's an again. Why did he not like their mom?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

What was up with that?

[Holly Fry]

Listen, if you have time off coming up in the next couple days, I hope you get to revisit something that brings you joy, whether it's from your childhood or not. Just find the stuff that makes you happy or offers you an escape because the real world is going to be there when you go back to it and it is good to take care of yourself with joy. There is no shame in that game. I also hope that everyone you encounter is kind to you. If you have to work, that goes doubly. So I hope nobody's a jerk to you while you are just trying to make a living. I hope everybody treats each other as kindly as they possibly can. Again, it's a high tension life we are living right now, but we will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode and then on Monday we will bring you something brand new.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Jamie Petras]

Our iHeartRadio Music Awards are coming back Monday, March 17th on Fox.

[Maria Tremarque]

Starring Bad Bunny Glorilla, Kenny, Chesney Money, Long Nelly, your host iHeartRadio, LL Cool J.

[Holly Fry]

Are you guys ready to have some fun tonight?

[Maria Tremarque]

Plus iHeart Innovator Award recipient Lady Gaga.

[Jamie Petras]

Iheart Icon Award recipient Mariah Carey, and.

[Maria Tremarque]

Iheart Breakthrough Award recipient Gracie Abrams.

[Jamie Petras]

Watch live on Fox Monday, March 17th.

[Maria Tremarque]

At 8, 7 Central. Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarque]

Each season we explore a new theme, from poisoners to art thieves.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarque]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mark Seale.

[Nathan King]

And I'm Nathan King.

[Holly Fry]

This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli.

[Jamie Petras]

The five families did not want us.

[Holly Fry]

To shoot that picture.

[Nathan King]

This podcast is based on my co host Mark Seals best selling book of the same title. Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Caan, Talia Shire and many others.

[Holly Fry]

Yes, that was a real horse's head.

[Nathan King]

Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan Roth]

Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast this Is Working. Can help with that. Here's some advice from Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, on standing out from the leadership crowd.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Develop your eq.

[Holly Fry]

A lot of people have plenty of.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Brains, but EQ is do you trust me?

[Holly Fry]

Me?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Do I communicate well?

[Holly Fry]

Develop the team, develop the people. Create a system of trust. And it works over time.

[Dan Roth]

I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor in chief. On my podcast, this is Working Leaders Share Strategies for Success. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.