Behind the Scenes Minis: Learned Women and Sharkey

Summary

Stuff You Missed in History Class: Behind the Scenes Minis – Learned Women and Sharkey

Released on August 15, 2025 by iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Behind the Scenes Minis: Learned Women and Sharkey," hosts Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson delve into the compelling narratives of Anna Maria Von Sherman, a pioneering educated woman in Europe, and William Sharkey, a figure entangled in a notorious legal case. This summary captures the essence of their discussions, highlighting key points, insightful analyses, and notable quotes from the episode.

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Section 1: Anna Maria Von Sherman – A Beacon of Female Education

Exploring Anna Maria's Legacy

Holly introduces Anna Maria Von Sherman as "probably the most educated woman in Europe of her time" (02:26). The hosts examine her contributions and the societal constraints she faced, emphasizing the structural barriers that hindered women's access to education during her era.

Challenges Faced by Educated Women

The discussion highlights the paradox of promoting female education while simultaneously restricting access. Holly mentions, "You could make it seem really fun and cool to be an educated woman, but that wasn't gonna do anything about the fact that most women had no access to school of any sort" (05:50). This underscores the systemic obstacles that prevented many women from pursuing education, despite cultural endorsements.

Religious and Social Expectations

The episode delves into Anna Maria's personal life, noting her lifelong celibacy and its significance in a predominantly Protestant society. Tracy remarks, "The social expectation was for women to get married and have children" (10:37). This personal choice set her apart, aligning her in some ways with broader definitions of queerness by deviating from societal norms.

Destruction of Her Works

A poignant moment in the conversation revolves around Anna Maria's decision to destroy her poetry towards the end of her life. Holly speculates, "What if this was just an issue of practicality? Where one day she was like, there's so many junky notebooks around here" (12:33). This act raises questions about her inner self and the legacy she intended to leave behind.

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Section 2: William Sharkey – A Legal Misstep and Its Implications

Introduction to Sharkey's Case

Transitioning to William Sharkey, Holly and Tracy discuss his legal troubles, describing his case as "murder" albeit not a particularly grisly one (18:01). They explore the intricacies of his escape from prison and the subsequent legal fallout.

Maggie Jordan's Role

Tracy sheds light on Maggie Jordan, William's widow, who played a crucial role in his escape. She points out, "It's not a secret where she is" (18:09), countering the common narrative that Sharkey simply vanished without a trace. This reveals a more nuanced picture of the events surrounding his escape.

Judicial Oversights

A significant portion of the discussion critiques the legal proceedings against Sharkey. Tracy states, "He was convicted of first-degree murder, which includes intent largely because the judge really, really whiffed it on his jury instructions" (21:55). This highlights the potential miscarriage of justice due to flawed legal instructions, emphasizing the importance of accurate jury guidance.

Behavior and Consequences

The hosts comment on Sharkey's temperament and actions, noting his "horrible temper" and irresponsible behavior, such as "using a gun to gesticulate with" (19:52). Tracy uses his case as a cautionary tale, urging listeners, "Don't live his life. Don't be like him. Don't do that" (22:41).

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Section 3: Reflecting on Historical Narratives

Myth vs. Reality

Holly and Tracy discuss how historical figures are often romanticized or misrepresented. For instance, Tracy mentions that Maggie Jordan's story is frequently portrayed as a sudden descent into crime, whereas evidence shows her involvement in a family of criminal activities (20:02).

Impact of Structural Barriers

The conversation circles back to the theme of structural barriers, drawing parallels between Anna Maria Von Sherman's experiences and broader societal issues. Holly observes, "There are structural barriers at work here. It applies to so many things in our world today" (06:12), connecting past injustices to contemporary challenges.

Humanizing Historical Figures

The hosts emphasize the importance of viewing historical figures as complex individuals rather than one-dimensional characters. Tracy asserts, "What people see as immoral in many cases is really just human" (08:55), advocating for a more empathetic understanding of the past.

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Conclusion

In "Behind the Scenes Minis: Learned Women and Sharkey," Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson provide a nuanced exploration of Anna Maria Von Sherman's quest for education amidst societal constraints and William Sharkey's tumultuous legal saga. Through their detailed discussions, they illuminate the complexities of historical narratives, urging listeners to look beyond surface-level stories to understand the broader societal and structural factors at play.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Holly Fry: "You could make it seem really fun and cool to be an educated woman, but that wasn't gonna do anything about the fact that most women had no access to school of any sort." (05:50)

• Tracy V. Wilson: "The social expectation was for women to get married and have children." (10:37)

• Holly Fry: "What if this was just an issue of practicality? Where one day she was like, there's so many junky notebooks around here." (12:33)

• Tracy V. Wilson: "He was convicted of first-degree murder, which includes intent largely because the judge really, really whiffed it on his jury instructions." (21:55)

• Tracy V. Wilson: "Don't live his life. Don't be like him. Don't do that." (22:41)

• Holly Fry: "There are structural barriers at work here. It applies to so many things in our world today." (06:12)

• Tracy V. Wilson: "What people see as immoral in many cases is really just human." (08:55)

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This summary aims to provide a comprehensive overview of the episode's main discussions, ensuring that listeners unfamiliar with the podcast can grasp the essential themes and insights shared by Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson.

Transcript

[Noah]

This is an iheart Podcast.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Iheart presents the Big three Playoffs this Sunday. The remaining four teams battle to make the championship in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. The action starts with the big three Monster Energy celebrity game, then Dwight Howard and his LA Riot take on Montrez Harrell and Dr. J Chicago triplets. The finale will see popular Miami 305 with stars MVP Michael Beasley and Lance Stevenson take on Nancy Lieberman's Dallas power who will make it to the big three championship. The no holds barred action starts Sunday at 3P Eastern, 12 Pacific only on CBS.

[Manny]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Feel good and look good this summer with savings on your personal care favorites and earn four times points now through September 9th. Shop in store or online for items like Dollar Shave Club razors, hydro Silk Razors and Edge Shave Gel. Plus some favorite brands like Tampax, Pearl, Depend and Poise to earn four times points to use for later discounts on groceries or gas. Hurry in before these deals are gone. Offer end September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or saf safeway.com for more details.

[Dana Schwartz]

In 1920, a magazine article announced something incredible. Two young girls had photographed real fairies. But even more incredible, that article was written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the man who invented Sherlock Holmes. How did he fall for that? Hoax is a new podcast from me, Dana Schwartz, the host of Noble Blood.

[Lizzy Logan]

And me, Lizzy Logan. Every episode we'll explore one of the most audacious and ambitious tricks in history and try to answer the question why we believe what we believe.

[Dana Schwartz]

Listen to Hoax on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Devin]

Why are TSA rules so confusing?

[Ryan Seacrest]

You got a hoodie on? Take it all.

[Devin]

I'm Manny.

[Noah]

I'm Noah.

[Devin]

This is Devin, and we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called no Such Thing, where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming at me? I can't expect what to do now if the rule was the same, go off on me. I deserve it, you know.

[Manny]

Lock him up.

[Devin]

Listen to no Such thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

No Such Thing. Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Noah]

Hello and happ Tracy V. Wilson, and I'm Holly Fry. This week we talked about Anna Maria Von Sherman, probably the most educated woman in Europe of her time. A weird thing that kept throwing me for a Loop, not really a weird thing. A random thing that kept throwing me for a loop is the Utrecht University website.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Noah]

Is@uunl. So uu. The extension for the Netherlands. And I kept seeing this in my research and my bookmarks and all of that. Having a dear friend who is a. She is a reverend with the Unitarian Universalist Church. I kept having a moment where I was like, oh, how are the Unitarians involved with this story? Because anytime, like, well, like, let's just say we're, like, planning to go to a protest together. I'll say, hey, where are. Where are you going to be? I will be out with the UUs. Okay? And so in my head, the UUs are the Unitarians. And so I kept having a moment where I would kind of double take every time the university came up in the research. We talked at the beginning of the episode about how I've had a whole lot of episodes clustered in the 19th and 20th century, which means I was kind of out of practice with subjects like the 80 Years War and the 30 Years War and how they overlapped and were connected, but they're not quite the same thing. I am pretty sure one of my sources had a moment of deep confusion where they called something the Seven Years War that was a totally different. It's not what I'm talking about.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

It's funny. It's almost like learning a language. Like, it's funny how quickly that stuff can leave you when you go to work on studying something else for a while. And I come back and I'm like, I don't remember how any of this stuff worked. I don't remember who was the monarch of what, when, and what they did. Like, I have to do Cliff's notes for everything to get up to speed.

[Noah]

Yeah, I think this. The, like, the year so far has been sort of the longest stretch for me in so recent a time period on the show which was not really on purpose exactly, but it did make this episode kind of challenging. One of the things that we talked about was these catalogs of learned women. Obviously, they did not only exist just in this one part of history. We did an episode on Christine de Pizan and the Book of the City of Ladies that had some similarities to this. Like, that chronicled learned women through history and mythology. There were other chronicles, lists, catalogs of learned women. And we talked about how this was sort of. It sort of served as an example. Like, hey, here are all of these women that were all really learned women have the ability to learn another Thing that some of the people who compiled these seem to think that they would be good for. That also applied specifically to Anna Maria von Sherman. There was this kind of idea of, like, hey, what if we made learning really trendy for women? Then more women would go out and learn. And there just wasn't sometimes a connection to the fact that, like, one of the reasons that there were not a lot of educated women is that women were barred from access to education. So, yeah, you could make it seem really fun and cool to be an educated woman, but that wasn't gonna do anything about the fact that most women had no access to school of any sort. Right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

It's so cool to be this thing. You can never be like, yeah, what a cruel setup.

[Noah]

And if, you know, if your family was in what we might think of as, like, the middle class, you probably did not have a lot of time to be teaching yourself to read at the start of things.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right?

[Noah]

So, like, that was just. I kept kind of going. Yeah. I mean, sure, it would be great if more women in the 16th, 17th, 18th century area era had been educated, but, like, it wasn't just a pull yourself up by your bootstrap situation. Hey, everybody. It never is. It never is.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

No. So it also feels to me every instance of that and, like, all the times that you included in this outline when dudes were like, you should publish your work. It's so important. No, I don't want to. Well, I'm gonna do it. It seemed so much like sort of the performative, lip servicey thing of, like, I support women's education. Look at me publishing this thing against the woman involved's wishes. But still, I'm really. I support women, you guys. Totally. I'm totally one of the good ones. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Noah]

There are structural barriers at work here. It applies to so many things in our world today. Structural barriers going on keeping people from being able to access whatever the thing is. Also, it is tough to understand, like, the sexual mores of 400 years ago, but her dad's fixation on her virginity, freaky deaky feels. Feels weird to a modern freaky deaky. That gave me the ick a little bit super ick.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Because, I mean, for many reasons, there are. Take away any of the, like, why are you so fixated on this part? My thing is that if at that point he recognizes that she should be educated, that she's clearly very smart and deserves to learn things, to cut off a whole part of the human condition from her information is kind of kneecapping the way in which she can understand a lot of the other things she's studying.

[Noah]

Right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And I. I don't like it.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I mean, I feel like there's a weird issue where what people see as immoral in many cases is really just human. And I understand the desire not to expose people to things before they are ready. But, like, at some point, humans have to understand the breadth of. Of human experience if they're truly going to be an intellectual, is my opinion.

[Noah]

Right, right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I am so inherently rebellious and was as a kid that if somebody told me, you cannot have access to this, I'd be like, fine, expurgate away. I will find another copy. Like, I.

[Noah]

Yeah. One of the things that I found interesting about her is like, we talked about the description of her as like the Sappho of Utrecht or like the Dutch Sappho.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Noah]

And how at the time that was really. That was about her poetry and the connotation of Sappho and lesbianism, like, wasn't quite as established as it is now. That's something that we talked about in that recent Saturday classic. And I did not. Everything that I read about her suggests that she was celibate for her whole life, she never married, that this was deeply religiously and spiritually important to her simultaneously. It was not typical for a Protestant woman to lead a celibate life in this way.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Noah]

Like the social expectation was for women to get married and have children.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Noah]

It was more established among Catholic women to have, you know, convents and nunneries and all of that. And like, that just. It wasn't quite as, like that. That role didn't exist in quite the same way for Protestant women at this point. Even though, like, the. The entire idea of non Catholic Christian religions was very early. Like, this is. This is during the Reformation encounter. Reformation. So if you look at like, queer history as a big umbrella in which we can think of queerness as like, anyone whose sexual or gender identity isn't aligning with or is like, expanding beyond what is expected of them in their society, like, she does still kind of fit in that. In with that because of this chastity that she stuck with her whole life. So even though the term Sappho as a connection to like, lesbianism doesn't quite line up with what we know of her, the fact that she was so focused on her own chastity kind of still sets her apart from the expectations of women at the time.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And also super weird in position by her father.

[Noah]

Yeah, I don't know. So I Don't know if we have a sense of like her feelings about a lot of stuff.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Noah]

Like she wrote these, she wrote treatises, she wrote letters, she wrote works that still survive. She wrote things that other people published on her behalf that are still around. But like, that doesn't really give us a sense of like her inner self.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Noah]

So yeah. Yeah. I did find her father asking her to promise that on his deathbed to be a. Yikes.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Super weird. I also had the very, you know, personally giggly aspect of when she got rid of all of her poetry towards the end of her life and the many theories about what that meant. There was part of me that was like, what if this was just an issue of practicality? Where one day she was like, there's so many junky notebooks around here.

[Noah]

Yeah. I definitely destroyed some stuff when I was moving the last time that I moved. Yeah, that was about. I really, really wanted to. We were in an apartment that had too much stuff and it was bothering my consciousness and I really wanted us to get into a house and not feel like we were drowning in stuff.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yep.

[Noah]

And so I went through a bunch of file folders and notebooks and file cabinet and stuff like that and I purged a bunch of stuff and some of it was, I don't wanna be buried on under all of these papers anymore. And some of it was also these things I wrote when I was 20 are embarrassing and no one ever needs to see them ever again, including me.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Have ditched a lot of things in that mindset.

[Noah]

Yeah. There is almost nothing that I regret having disposed of in that kind of mindset.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. No.

[Noah]

And I like there was one thing and I don't even remember what it was now. There was one thing that I briefly was like, ah, I wish I had not gotten rid of that thing so long ago. But now I don't even remember what that was. So. Yeah.

[Unknown]

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[Manny]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It is hot out there this summer, right? But don't sweat it. We got tons of ways to save on your family's favorite personal care items to keep yourself feeling cool and smelling good. Now through September 9th, earn four times points when you shop for items from your favorite brands like Right Guard Raw Sugar, Dove Soft Soap and Olay. Then use your points for discounts on groceries or gas on future purchases. Offer end September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Dana Schwartz]

In 1920, a magazine article announced something incredible. Two young girls had photographed real fairies. But even more extraordinary than the magazine articles claim was the identity of the man who wrote the article. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. The man who wrote Sherlock Holmes? Yes, the man who invented literature's most beautiful, brilliant detective was fooled by two girls into thinking fairies were real. How did they do it? And why does it seem like so many smart people keep falling for outlandish tricks? These are the questions we explore in Hoax, a new podcast from me, Dana Schwartz, the host of Noble Blood, and me, Lizzy Logan.

[Lizzy Logan]

Every episode, we'll explore one of the most audacious and ambitious tricks in history, from the fake Shakespeares to balloon boys, and try to answer the question of why we believe what we believe.

[Dana Schwartz]

Listen to Hoax on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Devin]

Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Attention passengers. The pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone, to land this plane.

[Devin]

Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this. Until this, pull that, turn this. It's just I do my eyes closed. I'm Manny.

[Noah]

I'm Noah. This is Devin.

[Devin]

And on our new show, no Such Thing, we get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Those who lack expertise lack the expertise.

[Noah]

They need to recognize that they lack expertise.

[Devin]

And then as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the Runway. I'm looking at this thing.

[Manny]

See?

[Devin]

Listen to no such thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

We talked about William Sharkey this week.

[Noah]

We did, we did. Murder.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Although it's not a pretty. No, murder is good, obviously, but this isn't a particularly grisly one.

[Noah]

Right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And becomes very mired in legalese.

[Noah]

Yes.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

One of the things that is very interesting about any of these types of stories where it's like, this person escaped is that there very quickly becomes a lot of writing about how they were never seen again. And I'm like, no. There were literally newspaper reports all the time of like, yeah, he's still in Cuba. We know. Similarly, Maggie's story is often written about as though she just vanishes into the ether. And I'm like, nope, I found the report of her husband's death and how she at like that specifically mentions his widow, Maggie Jordan, who helped William Sharkey escape from prison. Like, it's not a secret where she.

[Noah]

Right, right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I. I know it's more fun to have more mystery, but that also isn't the truth all the time.

[Noah]

Right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I love what a ding dong Monty Python move this was. Yeah.

[Noah]

Yeah, I really did. When I read through this earlier this morning, I got to the part about them. About them finding remnants of his mustache and I. There was a chortle, like an out loud chortle at my desk. Not expecting that to be.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

It's pretty good. It reminded me of William Maxwell, the 5th Earl of Nidsdale, who similarly, but in 1715, was disguised as a woman to escape prison by his wife. He was in the Tower of London, though. And I want to travel back in time and go, Maggie. Did you read history books? Is that what gave you this idea? Because it's a real similar escape.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

William Sharkey sounds like not a cool dude.

[Noah]

No.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

To hang out with.

[Noah]

No.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

He clearly had a horrible temper. Maybe a chip on his shoulder. Not a. Not a good dude.

[Noah]

And you know, using a gun to gesticulate with.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. And then mistreated the person who helped him escape from prison. Not a good dude. Incidentally, though, we mentioned in the episode that Maggie's story again gets written in a very tropey way of like, she was a good girl from a good family, but then she just turned to a life of crime. But she. There's a little more nuance there to that because she was not the only person in her family who had criminal dealings. I found a newspaper account of her brother getting arrested for theft. You know, it's not as sort of black and white and storybook as you would normally hear in discussions of her. But I love a good story of a person in drag. That whole. I got so mired in all of the coverage of the court case because the whole situation with the judge basically going, no, no, it was fine, no. And then a higher court going, ooh, wait a minute, you actually do have some points in this filing. He did do some stuff wr. I mean, we know no human is, you know, beyond fallibility. But it also points out that the way then, and I would say is probably going on in instances now that like one official in the justice system can completely shift the outcome of a trial or of a legal situation.

[Noah]

Sure.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Like, as I said, Sharkey, not a good dude. But it does actually kind of sound based on all the witnesses, like he didn't actually mean to shoot Dunn.

[Noah]

Right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

But yet he was convicted of first degree murder, which.

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Includes intent largely because the judge really, really whiffed it on his jury instructions.

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah. Really deeply irresponsible to just be kind of pounding on something while holding a gun.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, don't do that. Definitely reasons don't do that. Yeah, I just, you know, any combination of bad temper, alcohol, firearm, recipe for disaster. It was then, it is now. I hope nobody in our audience gesticulates with a gun when they are angry or ever because that's not a way to have a discussion.

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

That's kind of all I have on William Jay Sharkey. Just don't, don't live his life. Don't be like him. Don't do that. Don't do that.

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

If you have some time off this weekend, which I hope you do, I hope you eat the most delicious thing you've ever tasted in your life.

[Noah]

You.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

We need more fun and delicious things. I hope you have like a. The best sleep you've ever had in your life. I just hope everybody has a best of moment this weekend because we need it. Frankly, if you don't have time off and you actually have to do responsible things. I'm sorry, I feel you. But I hope you still find maybe the most delicious thing you've ever had in your life. Or maybe just a return to an old favorite that gives you comfort. There are so many wonderful things, things in this world and I hope everybody reaches out and enjoys them all as much as they are capable of. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode and then on Monday we'll have something brand new.

[Noah]

Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Iheart presents the Big three Playoffs this Sunday. The remaining four teams battle to make the championship in the most physical, fierce and competitive basketball league in the world. The action starts with the Big three Monster Energy Celebrity Game, then Dwight Howard and his La Riot take on Montrez Harrell and Dr. J Chicago triplets. The finale will see popular Miami 305 with stars MVP Michael Beasley and Lance Stevenson take on Nancy Lieberman's Dallas power, who will make it to the Big Three championship. The no holds barred action starts Sunday at 3:00pm Eastern, 12 Pacific only on CBS.

[Manny]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It is hot out there this summer, right? But don't sweat it. We got tons of ways to save on your family's favorite personal care items to keep yourself feeling cool and smelling good. Now through September 9th, earn four times points when you shop for items from your favorite brands like Right Guard Raw Sugar, Dove Soft Soap and Olay. Then use your points for discounts on groceries or gas on future purchases. Offer end September 9th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Lizzy Logan]

Have you ever looked at a piece of abstract art or music or poetry and thought that's just a bunch of pretentious nonsense? That's exactly what two bored Australian soldiers set out to prove during World War II when they tricked the literary world with their intentionally bad poetry, setting off a major scandal. We break down the truth, the lies and the poetry in between on Hoax, a new podcast hosted by me, Lizzie.

[Dana Schwartz]

Logan and me, Dana Schwartz. Every episode, Hoax explores an audacious fraud or ruse from history.

[Lizzy Logan]

Listen to hoax on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Devin]

Why are TSA rules so confusing?

[Ryan Seacrest]

You got a hoodie on. Take it all.

[Devin]

I'm Manny.

[Manny]

I'm Noah, this is Devin and we're.

[Devin]

Best friends and journalists with a new podcast called no Such, where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming? I can't expect what to do now if the rule was the same, Go off on me. I deserve it, you know, Lock him up. Listen to no Such thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

No Such Thing this is an iHeart podcast.