Stuff You Missed in History Class – Behind the Scenes Minis: Mary and Marjorie

Date: November 14, 2025
Hosts: Tracy V. Wilson and Holly Fry
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

Episode Overview

This "Behind the Scenes Minis" episode serves as a companion discussion to the main episodes on Mary Golda Ross (mathematician and aerospace engineer) and Marjorie Merriweather Post (businesswoman and philanthropist). Tracy and Holly share personal reflections, research challenges, fun tangents, and further context about these two remarkable women, delving into their legacies, related historical and cultural topics, and their own research and travel experiences.

Main Discussion Themes

Mary Golda Ross: Researching a Hidden Trailblazer

[02:04 – 08:47]

• Challenges of Researching Mary Golda Ross:

  • Tracy laments the scarcity of detailed records on Ross’s exact mathematical and engineering work due to the classified nature of her projects.

    “I felt like we were a little thin on details to include in the episode.” (Tracy, 02:10)

  • A pro: Not having to decode or explain advanced mathematics (Tracy, 02:24; Holly, 02:34).
  • Personal confessions from both hosts about their own math/engineering comfort zones.

• Smithsonian Museums and Indigenous Representation:

  • Tracy recounts memorable visits to the National Museum of the American Indian in Washington, DC, highlighting culturally rich exhibits and its favorite restaurant (05:17).
  • Museum visits have influenced episode topics for the podcast and Tracy still has ideas from those visits on her "to do" list (05:17–06:46).

• Episode Research Tangents & Memorable Quotes:

  • Mary Golda Ross's soft-spoken, gentle nature as described by others and observed on her appearance in "What's My Line?" (Tracy, 07:13; Holly, 07:48).
  • Holly shares a poignant quote from Dr. Norbert Hill:

    "We've had indigenous engineers since time immemorial... We've lost that in the narrative. The ability to say, you're a modern day engineer just like your ancestors." (Dr. Norbert Hill via Holly, 08:12)

Notable Quote

"We've lost that in the narrative. The ability to say, you're a modern day engineer just like your ancestors. And I love that."
— Dr. Norbert Hill (quoted by Holly, 08:36)

The Tear Dress and Cultural Threads

[08:47 – 15:54]

• Tear Dress Origins and Reflections:

  • Holly investigates the origins of the Cherokee tear dress and its similarities with the “patio dress”—exploring the circular influences of Indigenous, European, and American fashions (09:01–10:11).
  • Discussion of Cherokee clothing traditions pre- and post-European contact, and how culture is negotiated and redefined (10:11–12:09).

• Sewing Tangent: Pro-Tear vs. Anti-Tear:

  • Sewing traditions debate: is tearing fabric better than cutting?

    "You have to tear with confidence. And not all fabrics will do it either." (Holly, 15:29)

  • Both hosts recall frustrations and amusing controversies in sewing circles about this method (13:08–15:51).

Notable Quote

“You have to tear with confidence. And not all fabrics will do it either.”
— Holly (15:51)

• Ross's Personal Life:
  • Tracy notes the near-total lack of information about Ross’s personal life outside the charming story of her gifting apricots (16:03).

Marjorie Merriweather Post: Philanthropy and the Complexities of Wealth

[18:29 – 34:26]

• Post as a Philanthropic Millionaire:

  • Holly is fascinated by Marjorie’s emphasis on using immense wealth to help others and encourage similarly wealthy peers to do the same (18:29).

    “I love that about her. There are some very funny things...” (Holly, 18:47)

  • Anecdote about hosting parties at Mar-a-Lago that spiraled out of control when uninvited children and illness overran the estate (19:49–20:02).

• Personal Life and Relationships:

  • Marjorie as a “serial monogamist” with an enduring belief in marriage, even despite repeated disappointments and divorces (20:02–22:14).
  • Family debates and memories documented by biographer Nancy Rubin Stewart (20:02).
  • The connection to Glenn Close—her first husband is the actor’s grandfather (22:15).

• Passion for Collecting:

  • Holly outlines Marjorie’s incredible collection habits: tapestries, fine china, art, and how she meaningfully used these items in her homes rather than hiding them away (22:46–23:51).
  • Both hosts express a desire to visit Hillwood, her museum/home in DC.

• Character Sketch:

  • How her friends’ thoughtful birthday gift—a tree- and flower-lined walk—reflects her character more than any ostentatious display (23:52–24:26).

• Avoidance as a Coping Strategy:

  • Marjorie tended to excise unpleasant things or people from her life suddenly rather than address conflict directly (24:26–25:29).

Notable Quote

“She was not good at dealing with things she did not like... She would just cut it out of her life. Something I'm embarrassed to tell you I feel a certain kinship to.”
— Holly (24:41)

Philosophies on Love, Wealth, and Legacy

[28:10 – 34:26]

• Marriage Mindset Disagreement:

  • Tracy doesn’t relate to Marjorie’s need to be married, preferring no relationship over a bad one (28:10–28:52).
  • Holly argues that Marjorie entered her marriages genuinely in love and left readily when things soured (29:12–30:04).

• Wealth, Power, and Social Responsibility:

  • Holly asserts Marjorie was “one of the richest people in the world,” not just “the richest woman” (29:49).
  • Marjorie’s conviction about spreading wealth for the greater good; using social events to spur charitable donations (33:15–33:39).

• Modern Parallels:

  • Both hosts reflect on today’s wealth inequality, praising Marjorie’s commitment to generosity (33:39–34:07).

Notable Quote

“The way you make best use of your money is to spread it around and give money away all the time. Use it for good aims.”
— Holly (33:15)

Closing: Current Events and Call to Action

[34:26 – 36:10]

• Contextualizing the Present:
  • The hosts recorded amidst a government shutdown, acknowledging ongoing food insecurity, and urge listeners to donate to local food banks if able (34:26–34:57).
  • Personal stories about supporting the community, giving during Thanksgiving and Mardi Gras seasons (34:57–35:27).
  • A closing wish for mutual kindness, finding ways to make the world better, and recognizing the importance of supporting others’ well-being (35:34–36:10).

Key Timestamps

• **[02:04] – Mary Golda Ross research challenges and personal math journeys
• **[05:17] – Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian and episode inspirations
• **[07:13, 07:48] – Reflections on Mary Golda Ross’s soft-spoken nature
• **[08:12, 08:36] – Dr. Norbert Hill on Indigenous engineering legacy
• **[09:01–10:11] – History and interconnections of the Cherokee tear dress and fashion culture
• **[13:08–15:54] – The great sewing debate: tearing vs. cutting fabric
• **[18:29] – Marjorie Merriweather Post: philanthropy, wealth, and hospitality stories
• **[22:15] – Glenn Close family connection trivia
• **[22:46–23:51] – Marjorie’s approach to collecting material culture
• **[24:41] – Marjorie’s strategy for avoiding unpleasantness
• **[33:15, 33:39] – Marjorie’s philanthropic philosophy and critique of excessive modern wealth
• **[34:26–35:34] – Call to support local food banks and community

Memorable Quotes

• “We've lost that in the narrative. The ability to say, you're a modern day engineer just like your ancestors. And I love that.” — Dr. Norbert Hill, quoted by Holly (08:36)
• “You have to tear with confidence. And not all fabrics will do it either.” — Holly (15:51)
• “She was not good at dealing with things she did not like... She would just cut it out of her life. Something I'm embarrassed to tell you I feel a certain kinship to.” — Holly (24:41)
• “The way you make best use of your money is to spread it around and give money away all the time. Use it for good aims.” — Holly (33:15)

Tone and Style

Conversational, inquisitive, and at times witty and self-deprecating—Tracy and Holly blend deep admiration for their subjects with honesty about research limitations and personal quirks. Their banter reflects thoughtful critical engagement with history, underlying systemic topics, and contemporary relevance, all while maintaining an accessible and engaging delivery.

For listeners seeking more:
This episode weaves reflection, context, trivia, and generous doses of personality, offering new layers to Mary Golda Ross & Marjorie Merriweather Post for those curious about the entanglements of history, heritage, and legacy.