← Stuff You Missed in History Class
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- [00:00]
Tracy V. Wilson
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
Holly Fry
And now Superhuman Shack.
- [00:07]
Shaquille O'Neal
I keep telling them not to say that. I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep, with loud snoring, choking, gasping for air, and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it can sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more at don't sleep on OSA.com.
- [00:32]
Holly Fry
This information is provided by Lily, a medicine company. Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos. But now the Old Gays are pulling back the curtain with their podcast Silver Linings with the Old Gays. Brought to you in partnership with I Heart, Ruby Studio and Veeve Healthcare. Hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Jasse share their favorite pride, memories and the importance of celebrating all year long in honor of Palm Springs Pride celebrities. So check out Silver Linings with the Old gays on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, audiobook lovers. I'm Kalpin. I'm Ed Helms. Ed and I are inviting you to.
- [01:08]
Tracy V. Wilson
Join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with our new podcast, Irsay.
- [01:14]
Holly Fry
The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Each week we sit down with your favorite iHeart podcast hosts and some very special guests to discuss the latest and greatest audiobooks from Audible.
- [01:25]
Tracy V. Wilson
Listen to Hearsay on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.
- [01:30]
Holly Fry
Follow Irsay and start listening on the free iHeartradio app. Today.
- [01:34]
Starbucks Announcer
The holidays are back at Starbucks, so share the season with a peppermint mocha, Starbucks Signature Espresso, Velvety Mocha and cool peppermint notes topped with whipped cream and dark chocolate curls together is the best place to be at Starbucks.
- [01:50]
Holly Fry
Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.
- [02:02]
Tracy V. Wilson
Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson.
- [02:03]
Holly Fry
And I'm Holly Fry.
- [02:05]
Tracy V. Wilson
We talked about Mary Golda Ross this week. Yes. Pros and cons to knowing so little about the details of her work as a mathematician and aerospace engineer. Cons. I felt like we were a little thin on details to include in the episode.
- [02:24]
Holly Fry
That's the tricky bit.
- [02:25]
Tracy V. Wilson
Pros. I did not have to figure out how to explain incredibly complex mathematics and engineering stuff, right?
- [02:34]
Holly Fry
Those are always tricky as heck for me.
- [02:37]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah, there's. I did. I never took an engineering class aside from my arithmetic difficulties that we have talked about once I got into mathematics, that was more about like geometry and interesting equations and stuff. I I liked it a lot more than I did when I was a kid. And I did pretty well in classes like astronomy and physics and chemistry. But there's a. As like a ceiling. I get to a point where I'm like, I don't understand this anymore. Yeah, I understood up until this moment. And now I have no idea what's happening.
- [03:10]
Holly Fry
It's challenging.
- [03:13]
Tracy V. Wilson
I can't remember if we talked about this when we talked about in the. In the High episode. Holly, have you been to the Museum of the American Indian in Washington, dc?
- [03:23]
Holly Fry
I feel embarrassed to tell you. I'm not sure.
- [03:26]
Tracy V. Wilson
Okay. I mean, there's a lot of museums in Washington, D.C. so I know it's.
- [03:30]
Holly Fry
Recent enough that I should know.
- [03:31]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah.
- [03:32]
Holly Fry
But I go to a lot of museums and my brain is a little scrambled from a lot of travel in the last several months. And I'm like, I'm not sure if I have a false memory of this or not. Oh, sure, if I did, it was a brief run through and not like a long leisurely date. Cause then it would impress more memory upon me.
- [03:53]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah.
- [03:54]
Holly Fry
And there have been a couple days where I was there in Washington D.C. and buzzed through three or four museums in a day.
- [04:01]
Tracy V. Wilson
Oh, yeah.
- [04:01]
Holly Fry
So all of them get short shrift in that situation.
- [04:04]
Tracy V. Wilson
But yeah. So the company that we work for used to be owned. I'm saying this for listeners benefit used to be owned by Discovery. And Discovery's headquarters were in Silver Spring, Maryland, which is effectively next to Washington D.C. and so when I would need to go there for work, I often would like, if I needed to be there Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, I would fly in on Friday. And I would spend Saturday and Sunday going to museums and stuff. And one of the times that I did this, the Museum of the American Indian was one of the places that I went to. And I think I also went a second time one time when you and I were there for a live show, which would have been more recent. It is one of my favorite of the Smithsonian museums. I have seen exhibits there that are really cool. There was one that was called Up Where We Belong, and it was about indigenous people's influence on pop culture. And that one had an incredibly cool audio tour that went along with it. That was a lot of music by indigenous recording artists. There's a thing that I think is part of the permanent collection that's all about the use of indigenous imagery and advertising.
- [05:18]
Holly Fry
Oh, yeah.
- [05:19]
Tracy V. Wilson
Things that I've seen at that museum have wound up on the list for episodes of the show, some of which this is. I mean, we've talked about how long our shortlists are. I've got stuff from visits to that museum from years ago that are still sitting on my to do list waiting to be done at some point. And then in addition to how. How great I think the exhibits in the museum are. The restaurant.
- [05:46]
Holly Fry
Oh, I did not go to the restaurant.
- [05:48]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah. So it is one of my favorite restaurants on the National Mall. I think it might be. It's hard to say because there are ones that I have less of an experience with. But for a while I was like, this is my favorite place to eat on the National Mall. It is indigenous inspired cuisines. And there are different stations that you can go to that have indigenous inspired cuisine from different parts of the Americas. All of it really, really delicious. The time, I think this is the time that I was there, when we were there for a live show, I had gone to the Museum of the American Indian. I had looked at all of the, you know, the temporary exhibits that I had not seen yet. And then I had lunch in the restaurant and then I went to the National Museum of African American History and Culture, which was newly opened at that point. And I basically went and had a second lunch at that restaurant.
- [06:44]
Holly Fry
Yum.
- [06:45]
Tracy V. Wilson
Which was also really good.
- [06:46]
Holly Fry
We love second lunch.
- [06:47]
Tracy V. Wilson
So, yeah, anyway, I love the Smithsonian museums. We have already talked about being angry and upset about the way the executive branch is treating the Smithsonian museums. And then of course, at the moment that we are recording this, the government is still shut down and so all of them are temporarily closed, which is also upsetting.
- [07:12]
Holly Fry
Yeah.
- [07:13]
Tracy V. Wilson
Other stuff about the episode, this appearance that she did that Mary Golda Ross did on what's My Line? Uh huh. At first I thought this might have been maybe nervousness about being on. On television. But then I read other accounts of friends of hers that described her this way. She was so soft spoken. Her voice was just so soft and gentle that the first thing that she said when she was sort of introducing herself on that show, I was like, I feel like I need to listen more carefully.
- [07:48]
Holly Fry
Whenever you're talking, you're leaning towards your screen.
- [07:51]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah. But yeah, other people described her similarly. There was also A quote from Dr. Norbert Hill, who I think spoke at her funeral. I had a hard time getting details about that. I did find some write ups of it, but not like a full order of events of the day. But this is a quote that was sort of relevant, but not directly about her that I saved for this behind the scenes. And so he said, quote, we've had indigenous engineers since time immemorial. We were able to build things and make things, and we got amnesia about it, about who we are as a people building teepees and canoes, the snowshoe and irrigation systems in Arizona. There are certainly a lot of contributions that the Cherokees have made. We've lost that in the narrative. The ability to say, you're a modern day engineer just like your ancestors. And I love that.
- [08:47]
Holly Fry
So the discussion of the tear dress in this immediately made me think of a very popular style of dress that is still made, like, among retro seamstresses, called a patio dress.
- [09:01]
Tracy V. Wilson
Okay.
- [09:02]
Holly Fry
It was originally not called a patio dress. It was called by an outdated, no longer acceptable term for indigenous woman. And it's interesting because looking at pictures of tear dresses, they look very similar. And I ended up in my own little side quest rabbit hole of, like, our patio dresses, which are sometimes also called fiesta dresses, depending on where you're at and. And what pattern you're using. I'm like, were those based on these? But they actually predate tear dresses, but they're also based on older indigenous garments. So I feel like there's this through line across multiple tribes and cultures trying to replicate dresses that some sources will even tell you. The dresses that were being used as inspiration for patio dresses were based on indigenous dresses that were actually based on European dresses. And so it becomes this circle of, like, I don't know where the beginning of this style exists.
- [10:11]
Tracy V. Wilson
Right.
- [10:12]
Holly Fry
Yeah.
- [10:12]
Tracy V. Wilson
Well. And that was part of what they were challenged by when they were trying to, like, create something that felt appropriate as, like, Cherokee traditional dress. Because there are indigenous nations that do have a culturally specific style of clothing that was being worn prior to the arrival of Europeans.
- [10:35]
Holly Fry
Yeah.
- [10:35]
Tracy V. Wilson
And the Cherokee also had some ways of making netting and beading and things like that that were culturally specific. But, like, when it came to garments that people were wearing, the way that it was explained by the Cherokee writers that I read who were talking about the creation of the stress like this. It was like you're making a garment out of the skins of the animal that you're also using the meat from. And it just, it. It was not something that was like, this is a Cherokee method of. Of making these coverings for your body.
- [11:06]
Holly Fry
Right.
- [11:07]
Tracy V. Wilson
And then once trade goods from Europe were introduced, a lot of people started wearing things that were very similar to, you know, what the European people were wearing and so felt culturally appropriate to have a dress that looked like a European person's garment, because that's what people had been wearing. Including before being forcibly removed to Oklahoma. But it also needed to feel like it was something specifically Cherokee. And so, yeah, it does have that kind of circular, like, okay, what had Europeans introduced? How had Cherokee people made it their own? How does that feed back into reestablishing a cultural identity after, you know, centuries of deliberate erasure and deliberate attempts to force the Cherokee to assimilate with white culture? Like, all of this feeds in together with creating a garment and then saying, okay, this has roots to us and is also something that is our cultural dress today.
- [12:10]
Holly Fry
And also very similar to a product very popular in the 1950s amongst white ladies.
- [12:19]
Tracy V. Wilson
We also stressed in the episode that, like, this is something that the Cherokee in Oklahoma were doing. The Cherokee in North Carolina or, you know, on the east coast, like, have. They're. They're related. But this was something that was happening in Oklahoma that, as far as I know, the Cherokee in North Carolina were not part of that part of it in the 60s and 70s. And they were making this address. I also watched an hour. The. The hour. The. The video that we referenced. I watched the full hour of it and just like wrapped attention of the creation of these dresses and how they were made and different fabrics that they can be made from and the challenges of working with fabrics that don't just tear from the selvedge edge like that.
- [13:08]
Holly Fry
The tearing from the selvage edge gave me such a, like, I don't know what I would call it. Is it nostalgia? Is it chuckle? I don't know. But I mean, did you ever bump up against the arguments over pro tearing fabric versus not? I don't think so when you were doing any sewing. Because people feel strongly about this issue in the sewing world. Some people love it because they feel like, great, if you tear across the cross grain, you know, you're getting essentially, theoretically, I should say a straight right cut. Air quoting cut. But not all fabrics are loomed exactly perfectly that way. And they won't. Oh sure, you will actually end up with an angled piece or one of the other things that can happen is as you're ripping it. And also you have to be kind of good at it to get it, like a clean tear. But sometimes as you're doing the tear, the threads that make up the grain of the fabric will get a little warped in the process, and people get squeamish about that. Like, if you're in, say, a costume shop, let's just say as a theoretical example, and someone chooses to, like, they're making something that has like a million ruffles and they choose to start tearing the fabric instead of cutting it. Some people will be totally cool with it, and some people will lose their minds and act as though you are doing the most CRO Magnon thing you could possibly do with a piece of fabric, which is no slight to CRO Magnons. They just didn't have scissors yet. But it's very funny to watch that divide open up amidst a bunch of stitchers.
- [14:56]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah. Yeah.
- [14:57]
Holly Fry
And watch how vehemently each side will make their case that the way they do it is the proper way.
- [15:03]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah.
- [15:04]
Holly Fry
I just find I'm very. You know, we roll with stuff in our sewing room.
- [15:09]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah.
- [15:09]
Holly Fry
Whatever way you like to do it is the correct way for your project.
- [15:13]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah. I have definitely had the experience of trying to tear a really inexpensive. Inexpensive is the wrong word. A cheaply made piece of fabric and had that go very wrong. Yeah.
- [15:29]
Holly Fry
Sometimes if there's a gap, if the thread count is not very high on those grain threads, it will make a right turn and tear up the grain instead of directly across the whole way. And that's not fun. That'll mess up your plan in a hurry. So, Yep, that goes back to that whole technique thing a little bit. You gotta be fast, confident. You gotta tear with confidence.
- [15:51]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah.
- [15:53]
Holly Fry
And not all fabrics will do it either.
- [15:55]
Tracy V. Wilson
I don't think I have anything else to say about Mary Golda Ross. I know almost nothing about her personal life beyond her giving apricots to people as gifts.
- [16:04]
Holly Fry
I mean, that's all I need to know. She's a cool lady.
- [16:07]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah. Yeah.
- [16:11]
Holly Fry
Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's just a regular guy.
- [16:14]
Shaquille O'Neal
People never believe me when I say I'm just like them. I take out the trash, do dishes, and I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa. And a lot of adults with obesity also struggle with moderate to severe osa. You know, those scary breathing interruptions during sleep, the loud snoring, choking, and daytime fatigue? I knew I had to talk to my doctor. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by.
- [16:40]
Holly Fry
Lilly, A medicine company. Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos. But now the old Gays pull back the curtain. On their podcast Silver Linings with the Old Gays, brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Veeve Healthcare. For a very special bonus episode, hosts Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jesse talk about how pride has evolved over the years and their favorite memories, all in celebration of Palm Springs Pride because pride should be celebrated all year round. Listen to these fabulous friends swap stories exploring how queer life has evolved over the decades and the silver linings they've collected along the way. Each episode dives into hot topics from safe sex and online dating to untangling Gen Z lingo, as well as insights on how music, art and fashion show up in queer culture. So check out Silver Linings, a show about how pride ages like fine wine, available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [17:43]
Starbucks Announcer
The holidays are back at Starbucks, so share the season with a peppermint mocha, Starbucks signature espresso, velvety mocha and cool peppermint notes topped with whipped cream and dark chocolate chocolate curls together is the best place to be at Starbucks.
- [17:58]
Lowe's Announcer
Want Black Friday prices without the crowds? Lowe's gets it, shop their early Black Friday deals and beat the rush. $99 is all you need to grab a select 7 foot pre lit artificial Christmas tree for the holidays. And don't sweat what gives to get dad. They have up to 40% off select tools and accessories going on now. That's how Lowe's celebrates Black Friday. Early selection varies by location while supplies.
- [18:23]
Tracy V. Wilson
Last.
- [18:30]
Holly Fry
We talked about Marjorie Meriwether post this week, who I'm very fascinated by because she does seem like one of those early instances of someone with more money than she needs who decided she would use it to help other people, which I admire, and also who encouraged other people that were similarly blessed with wealth that they needed to also step up and do the same thing. I love that she's like, this construction project might be a money pit, but I don't want to put all these guys out of work and make an entire big problem because a lot of people are employed by my project. I love that. I love that about her. There are some very funny things. Apparently when she built Mar a Lago, which she envisioned as this amazing place, she was gonna host parties, she did have some times where she actually got overwhelmed by it. Like they would invite 200 people at a time to come and stay there and like go to a full array of activities. You know, kind of the way we see in films of old English country houses having everybody come and visit for a week or whatever, and they have a full schedule of activities and balls and meals. And apparently at one point she had invited a bunch of people and some of them brought their kids, which they had not told her ahead of time. And so there were more people than they had planned for. And then an illness broke out amongst the party group. And so they were having to, like, separate people into different bedrooms. And all of the rooms were filled and more guests were still coming.
- [20:01]
Tracy V. Wilson
Oh, no.
- [20:02]
Holly Fry
But they managed it. Somehow. They managed it. Marjorie Meriwether Post was a serial monogamous. Yeah, it's interesting. There's a book, a biography of her that I read that was written by Nancy Rubin Stewart in 1995. Although she wrote an article about her in 2023 for Saturday Evening Post where she references a lot of things that Marjorie's children and grandchildren have commented on over the decades about her and about, like, their disagreements of her assessments of things, but also their. You love of her. And she. She was a person that really helped a lot of people, you know, in their family and outside of their family. And, you know, anybody that they were connected to when they fell on hard times could come to her for help and always get it. But they also talked about how she just thought you were supposed to be married. That was what was up. You needed to be coupled up. And so even after she had broken up with Herb, her fourth hus husband, and that whole scandal, at one point there were rumors that she was going to get remarried, which she dismissed. But apparently among the family, they had said something about it, and she was like, yeah, but I'm lonely. Like, I'm in this huge house by myself. Like, why wouldn't I get married again? Even though at that point, you know, she's. She's into her late 70s, early 80s, so she just. She loved the companionship of marriage. And it seems like it was a. She had a sense of personal failure at never having had what she perceived as a successful marriage.
- [21:48]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah.
- [21:49]
Holly Fry
Even though her marriage to Davies lasted 20 years. I mean, it lasted a long time.
- [21:54]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah.
- [21:54]
Holly Fry
But, yeah, also all these rich people were just switching up spouses periodically. Like, I don't mean in any kind of. Like, we're doing a spouse swap, but it would be like we got divorced. And then at a party a couple months later, I met this other person and they were married to somebody else, but they got divorced and then we got married, and then that person got married into another person. It's just wild.
- [22:16]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah.
- [22:16]
Holly Fry
Point of trivia. Edward Close, her first husband is, if I did the math right, the grandfather of Glenn Close, the actor.
- [22:26]
Tracy V. Wilson
I wondered when I got to the name Close in the outline, if there was a relation there. And then I was like, surely not.
- [22:33]
Holly Fry
There is. There is, yeah. Man's fascinating. There are also some interesting. There's so much that I had to Leave out. Because she. I didn't get into any of her collecting.
- [22:46]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah.
- [22:47]
Holly Fry
Because she did collect a lot of amazing stuff, like, you know, tapestries from France that were made by the same weaving company that had made tapestries, you know, for the royal palaces. Like pieces of fine china that she collected when she was in the Soviet Union, pieces she collected all over Europe on her travels. Pieces she collected from around the United States when she traveled. Like she just had an eye for jewelry and art and sculpture and was very smart about acquiring things and using them, which is pretty interesting. Right. They didn't just go into storage. They were included in the designs of her homes. They were part of the way she arranged things. Her fine china got used and she had very specific ways she liked it to be arranged and displayed on the table with very specific flowers that she wanted to have if she was using any given set of china. Which is all pretty interesting. Now I want to go to Hillwood. I've never been. Yeah, it looks beautiful.
- [23:52]
Tracy V. Wilson
I've never been.
- [23:52]
Holly Fry
Let's go.
- [23:53]
Tracy V. Wilson
That tree and flower lined walk that her friends made sounds really lovely to me.
- [24:00]
Holly Fry
I feel like that is a really, really good indicator of who she was as a person. That her friends were not like, you know, it's her 70th birthday, let's buy her something ostentatious and huge.
- [24:14]
Tracy V. Wilson
Right.
- [24:14]
Holly Fry
They were instead, like, let's build a beautiful place that she can walk and that other people could also walk because that's what she wants. I feel like that's a good indicator that she was not a monster.
- [24:26]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah.
- [24:27]
Holly Fry
Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. Yeah. One of the other things that does come up in all of those, those quotes from her family after her passing is that she was not good at dealing with things she did not like.
- [24:42]
Tracy V. Wilson
Oh, sure.
- [24:43]
Holly Fry
She wouldn't like, address things head on and like, try to fix it. She would just cut it out of her life. Something I'm embarrassed to tell you I feel a certain kinship to. But like, even with her husband, her second husband, when she found out he was cheating, she didn't say, like, hey, you're cheating. Here's the thing. It was, I'm about to step onto a boat and go away for months, by the way, we're getting divorced. Goodbye. Yeah. Cause she didn't want to have the conversation about it. She just wanted to say how it was going to be and leave and not.
- [25:19]
Tracy V. Wilson
Right. This reminds me a little bit in a slightly different way of a relationship that I ended immediately after my birthday party was over and all the rest of the guests had left because I didn't want to deal with it prior to the birthday party. But it needed to be dealt with.
- [25:37]
Holly Fry
Yeah, yeah, yeah. She just wouldn't have dealt with it. She would have moved out the next day while that person was like at work or on an errand.
- [25:45]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah, I didn't have that option.
- [25:52]
Holly Fry
And now Superhuman Shaq I keep telling.
- [25:55]
Shaquille O'Neal
Them not to say that. I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep with loud snoring, choking, gasping for air, and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it can sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by.
- [26:20]
Holly Fry
Lilly, a medicine company. Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos, but now the Old Gays pull back the curtain on their podcast Silver Linings with the Old Gays brought to you in partnership with I Hearts, Ruby Studio and Veeve Healthcare For a very special bonus episode. Hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Jahsay talk about how pride has evolved over the years and their favorite memories, all in celebration of Palm Springs Pride because pride should be celebrated all year round. Listen to these fabulous friends swap stories exploring how queer life has evolved over the decades and the silver linings they've collected along the way. Each episode dives into hot topics from safe sex and online dating to untangling Gen Z lingo, as well as insights on how music, art and fashion show up in queer culture. So check out Silver Linings, a show about how pride ages like fine wine, available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [27:24]
Starbucks Announcer
It's the season to come together over your holiday favorites at Starbucks, warm up with a creamy caramel brulee latte, get festive with an iced gingerbread chai, or share a velvety peppermint mocha together. Is the best place to be at Starbucks.
- [27:39]
Lowe's Announcer
Want Black Friday prices without the crowds? Lowe's gets it. Shop their early Black Friday deals and beat the rush. $99 is all you need to grab a select 7 foot pre lit artificial Christmas tree for the holidays. And don't sweat what gifts to get dad. They have up to 40% off select tools and accessories going on now. That's how Lowe's celebrates Black Friday. Early selection varies by location while supplies last.
- [28:11]
Tracy V. Wilson
There are various people that come up on the show where like I really feel like I I have the same mindset about something or I really empathize with them in a particular way. And I. I do not have that with the. The need for her to be married. Because way earlier in my life, I came to the decision that a bad relationship was way worse than no relationship. And I would much rather have no relationship if that was the options. Like, those are my choices.
- [28:42]
Holly Fry
Oh, yeah.
- [28:43]
Tracy V. Wilson
And so sort of feeling like she needed to be in a marriage is just like, not. It's not a thing where I am in sync with her thinking on that.
- [28:53]
Holly Fry
Well, I think too. Right. She wasn't a person who, like, got into a marriage that she knew was not gonna be great. Every time she started one of her four marriages, she felt very in love with that person. They all seemed like they were great starts.
- [29:13]
Tracy V. Wilson
Oh, sure.
- [29:14]
Holly Fry
And she did roll out as soon as she was in any way wronged by it. Yeah. Or felt like it wasn't working for her. But she, you know, keep in mind she was very beautiful. She was very charming. She was super smart, self possessed, had more money than anybody she was gonna meet just about. I mean, it's funny because there are a lot of write ups about her that, you know, like the brief versions where they're like, she was the richest woman in the United States or one of the richest women in the world. I'm like, she was one of the richest people in the world.
- [29:49]
Tracy V. Wilson
You're right.
- [29:50]
Holly Fry
Right. You don't need to specify by sex or gender in this instance because she was a millionaire when she was a teenager. Like a multimillionaire.
- [29:58]
Tracy V. Wilson
Right.
- [29:59]
Holly Fry
In the nineteen teens.
- [30:02]
Tracy V. Wilson
In nineteen teens. Dollars of multimillionaire. Yeah.
- [30:05]
Holly Fry
Yeah. She. She was richer than most people ever. So she knew. That was another thing. She knew she was never going to meet somebody who was her equal in that regard. Like, there was just. No. The odds were incredibly low to Neil. But she did seem to very much, like, love. Love and truly fall in love with these people. And she charmed them. The story of when she met her husband, Joe Davies for the first time is like, everybody in the room saw it happen. Like, where they were all. They all kind of knew, like, all right, well, his marriage is gonna end. Cause he just fell in love with this woman at first sight. Like, even his kids were like, whoa, okay. Our lives just changed. Like, they all recognized that they had a really intense attraction to one another and a devotion to one another. So it's. It's interesting. I know. I don't think she was willing to put up with not a good relationship. She Just was a romantic in many ways and thought she wanted to be with somebody and have that, you know, magical connection. Even though, I mean, I think that's probably what led her to not realize that her last husband, if he was. I mean, we don't know, the words, never came out in any kind of. Like, I identify as he was a closeted homosexual or he was bisexual or whatever. I don't think that ever crossed her mind for a second. Cause she was like, I am in love with this person and he's in love with me.
- [31:36]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah.
- [31:37]
Holly Fry
And even though there were instances later on where people were like, remember that time where you said he was weird around that waiter and he acted too familiar. Cause he was hitting on him. And she was like, really?
- [31:49]
Tracy V. Wilson
Like, she just didn't.
- [31:50]
Holly Fry
She didn't have any. Any sense of it.
- [31:54]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah. I kind of went, like, poking around for more detail about that after reading the outline this morning, because I was kind of curious. And I also was like, okay, like, what. What ages of young men are we talking about here in the. The pictures that showed, like, what. What is. What is the nature of what we're talking about here? And my cursory reading of it made it sound like that he genuinely did have feelings for her in some way.
- [32:25]
Holly Fry
Yeah.
- [32:26]
Tracy V. Wilson
And that also he was involved with men.
- [32:28]
Holly Fry
So. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. It makes me think he was probably bi. But again, you don't want to assign that to anybody because we don't know. But he seemed very into her. I mean, he pursued her.
- [32:43]
Tracy V. Wilson
Right.
- [32:44]
Holly Fry
So mysteries. Mysteries. So she was so good at keeping things private that there are big chunks we don't know about. Right. Like, her divorce from Hutton is still shrouded in a little bit of mystery.
- [32:59]
Tracy V. Wilson
It's that combination of not having the inner thoughts of either of them, really, on this. And then also, like, the continual evolution of how we talk about these things in society, which is constantly changing and evolving 100% anyway.
- [33:15]
Holly Fry
She fascinates me. I do love that she proselytized to all of her wealthy friends to be like, the way you make best use of your money is to spread it around and give money away all the time. Use it for good aims. Try to make the world a better place with your money. You can still keep making money for you, but you gotta also do these things if you really wanna live. Right. And I'm like, I love you.
- [33:40]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we're living in a society where there is way too much wealth concentrated with a few specific people who have way Too much power over the lives of the rest of us. So I do like the fact that she was not focused on, like, getting more and more and more and more and more to the exclusion of attempting to do good for other people in the world.
- [34:07]
Holly Fry
Yeah. Even as she got older, her, you know, large, lavish parties often came with. By the way, are you donating money? Which I love. I love it. Anyway. May we all live with the sense of duty to help others with what we have.
- [34:26]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah. Speaking of donating money, we're recording this a couple of weeks in advance. Will the government still be shut down when this episode comes out? Who can say? Will people have gotten their SNAP benefits in November? Who can say? What we can say is that we know there will still be a need for people to have food. And so if you have the ability to donate to your local food bank or a food rescue organization or some organization that is helping to keep people fed, if you're able to do that, it's a great time to do it.
- [34:57]
Holly Fry
One of my very favorite ways to support the community is to always, always we do a big, usually Thanksgiving, we do a donation, and then we tie a nerdy Star wars thing to Mardi Gras season, where the idea is that while we're feasting, we should also be giving to places that feed people. Whatever organization feels right to you. Local organizations are great. We all have plenty. That's, like, my life motto.
- [35:28]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah. I feel like there's a lot going on in the world and a lot that people can want to contribute to and just everything's harder when people are hungry.
- [35:35]
Holly Fry
Yeah. If you've ever been hungry, you know, it sucks. We should help people not. Not have to feel that and not be ashamed when they need help. Make the world better. If this is your weekend, I hope you find a way to make the world better. If it's not your weekend, I hope whatever your job is does not burden you in a way that makes you feel like the world is worse. I hope that everybody treats each other kindly. We all take care of one another. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode and then on Monday with something brand new.
- [36:10]
Tracy V. Wilson
Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
- [36:25]
Holly Fry
And now, Superhuman Shaq.
- [36:27]
Shaquille O'Neal
I keep telling them not to say that. I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea or osa in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep, with loud snoring, choking, gasping for air, and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it can sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by.
- [36:53]
Holly Fry
Lilly a medicine company. To beat the champ, you gotta knock.
- [36:58]
Tracy V. Wilson
Him out The Dodger Stand tall and.
- [37:00]
Holly Fry
Win back to back titles. I'm Richard Parks iii. My show Dodger Blue Dream captures all the drama, tension and ecstasy of the best World Series win of all time in our new episode Game seven. No Way Out. Now listen to Dodger Blue dream on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi Kyle, could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan, just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast shell games on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.
- [37:59]
Tracy V. Wilson
I'm Dr. Priyanka Wali, a double board certified physician.
- [38:03]
Holly Fry
And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once googled Do I have scurvy at 3am and on our show we're talking about health in a different way. Like our episode where we look at diabetes in the United states.
- [38:15]
Tracy V. Wilson
I mean 50% of Americans are pre diabetic.
- [38:18]
Holly Fry
How preventable is type 2?
- [38:21]
Tracy V. Wilson
Extremely. Listen to Health Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.