Behind the Scenes Minis: Pirate Evolution

Summary

Stuff You Missed in History Class – Behind the Scenes Minis: Pirate Evolution

Hosts: Holly Frey & Tracy V. Wilson
Date: July 31, 2026
Podcast: Stuff You Missed in History Class (iHeartPodcasts)

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Episode Overview

This "Behind the Scenes Minis" episode gives listeners an informal, candid look at how Holly and Tracy chose and researched recent pirate-themed episodes following their trip to Nassau, Bahamas. The hosts discuss the evolution of piracy, the historical and political contexts behind it, and share personal anecdotes and reflections about their work. The episode also pivots to a discussion about Thomas Huxley and his admirable character, as well as some lighthearted commentary on recording in a lively public location.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Choosing the Pirate Topic Post-Bahamas

• Return from Nassau Influences Topic:
  Tracy explains that after returning from Nassau, they wanted an episode thematically or geographically related to their trip. The initial idea was to cover the 1776 raid on Nassau during the Revolutionary War, but she found it too straightforward compared to the allure of pirate stories.

  • “I had been looking for a topic that was somehow thematically or geographically related to where we were… wound up with the Flying Gang.” (02:38)
  • "[The raid] was such a straightforward thing that I did not think it was going to wind up feeling as fun and interesting as pirates…" (03:35)

• Pirate Stories More Engaging than Straight-Up Warfare:
  Tracy admits she was tired after several Revolutionary War episodes, seeking something fresher for the audience.

2. Pop Culture Connections: Assassin’s Creed Black Flag

• Tracy notes a timely coincidence: a friend recommended she try Assassin’s Creed Black Flag just as she was finishing her research on pirates.

  • "This game is all of the stuff that I just wrote about for the podcast and also other pirates who we have talked about on the show previously." (03:57)

• Holly jokes about confusing the game with the punk band Black Flag, adding a playful moment about names being shared by unrelated things.

  • “I was like, the punk band? ... My brain couldn't get anywhere else.” (04:57)

3. The Evolution of Piracy and Historical Context

• Political Forces Behind Piracy:
  Tracy reflects on learning how piracy was deeply entwined with the rivalries between European powers, and not just limited to the Caribbean.

  • “I don't know if we had ever really talked about how much piracy was interconnected with greater struggles between nations.” (06:02)
  • "It was really when working on this one that I got a bigger sense of how much the rise in piracy had to do with things ... about various European powers fighting with one another." (06:23)

• Transition from Privateers to Pirates:
  Holly elaborates that much of what is considered "the golden age of piracy" was a result of nations creating privateers and then abandoning them, criminalizing the lifestyle they had promoted.

  • “Huge institutions set up a system and then abandon that system and then criminalize it.” (07:33)

• Pirates and Jacobites:
  Tracy notes some pirates had Jacobite sympathies, not necessarily because of a genuine desire to replace the king, but as a general anti-monarchy sentiment.

  • "That was. The whole topic was looking at how many pirates were Jacobites ... As a way to express a more anti current British monarchy attitude more generally." (06:59)

• Personal Impact on Those Involved:
  Holly highlights the vulnerability of sailors suddenly cut loose from government employ, their only livelihood criminalized.

  • "We have set things up where you are going to depend financially on a system ... the only behavior you have ever learned ... But now we're done, that trade is over. I guess you gotta figure out another way ..." (08:29)

4. Reflections on Recent Recording and Research Process

• The hosts recorded the Behind the Scenes episode a week after the main one, which is rare for them, leading to a few fuzzy recollections and comedic moments.
  • “It's been so long since we recorded the episode ... what was I even talking about a week ago?” (05:31–05:57)

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Segment: Thomas Huxley – A Personal Hero (12:10–19:10)

1. Admiration for Huxley’s Character

• Champion for Darwin:
  Holly describes Huxley as a “balm to my soul,” the ideal friend who would leap in to defend Darwin’s theories when Darwin himself was reluctant to fight.

  • “Thomas Huxley is like a balm to my soul. He's the antidote to Charles Goodyear ... Darwin was like, I know my ideas are controversial. I don't want to fight about it. And Huxley's like, oh, I'll fight about it.” (12:15)

• Eloquent Defender and Witty Debater:
  Huxley is praised for his eloquence and especially his famous retort at the Wilberforce debate:

  • “I would rather be related to an ape than be somebody like you.” (13:18)

2. Huxley’s Integrity and Scientific Humility

• Holly admires that Huxley, after making a public scientific mistake, was forthright and proactive about admitting and correcting his error:
  • “He made this big, stupid mistake and was totally confident enough to go, wow, that was a big, stupid mistake. Yeah, Sorry. I'm gonna rectify this at every opportunity ... I love everything about that because it shows incredible strength of character.” (13:37–14:05)

3. Huxley as an Advocate for Education and Accessibility

• The hosts highlight Huxley’s push for science education for all, regardless of social class or gender.

  • “On top of all of that, he was like, you know what? Everybody has the right to an education. ... How can we demystify science? How can we make science accessible ... How can we make women have more opportunities?” (15:10–16:39)

• Repeatedly, Holly refers to him as a “historical dreamboat.”

  • “What a historical dreamboat. Thomas Huxley. I love him.” (16:39)

4. Huxley’s Family Legacy

• Light banter about his famous descendants (Aldous Huxley of "Brave New World," and Nobel laureate Andrew Huxley) and what a legacy the family left.
  • “That is, in fact, his grandson.” (17:15)
  • "Brave New World cracked my brain open in new ways when I read it. I think I was 16 when I read it." (17:22)

5. Fun Anecdotes About the Recording Experience

• Holly describes the unique challenge and amusement of recording in a studio with windows at the Bahamar resort, with people strolling by eating ice cream.
  • “The studio, there is, like, windows on two of the four sides, and it is in the middle of a big resort. So there are people just strolling by and sometimes peeking in, which, honestly, I found kind of charming and hilarious.” (18:19)
  • “If there are glints for anyone watching on Netflix, if there are glints of envy in our eyes ... it's. Cause I'm like, mm, that looks delicious.” (18:47)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the cyclical nature of historical institutions abandoning people:
  • Holly: “Same thing, different century. Yeah, man. We know. We have set things up where you are going to depend financially on a system that involves us paying you ... But now we're done, that trade is over.” (08:29)
• On Huxley’s debating style:
  • Holly: “I just love the idea of him just smacking somebody down and being like, that's fine. … I would rather be related to an ape than be somebody like you.” (13:18)
• On scientific humility:
  • Holly: “He made this big, stupid mistake and was totally confident enough to go, wow, that was a big, stupid mistake ... I love everything about that because it shows incredible strength of character.” (14:05)
• On recording with window-side distractions:
  • Holly: “There are people just strolling by and sometimes peeking in, which, honestly, I found kind of charming and hilarious.” (18:19)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Summary | |------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:28 | Discussion about trip to Bahamas and picking pirate topics | | 03:57 | Pop culture connection: Assassin’s Creed Black Flag | | 06:02 | Piracy’s connection to larger political/military struggles | | 06:59 | The role of Jacobites and anti-monarchic pirates | | 07:33 | Privateer to pirate transformation; systemic hypocrisy | | 12:10 | Segue into Thomas Huxley, his advocacy, and personal integrity| | 13:18 | Notable Huxley quote: “I would rather be related to an ape…” | | 15:10 | Huxley’s work on science accessibility/education | | 17:15 | Family legacy — Aldous and Andrew Huxley | | 18:19 | Reflections on the amusing Bahamar recording setup | | 19:10 | Weekend wishes and closing personal notes |

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Tone and Final Thoughts

The episode is relaxed, good-humored, insightful, and conversational—demonstrating the hosts’ joy in connecting dots across history, their lives, and pop culture. Holly and Tracy balance scholarly enthusiasm with relatable, warm banter, making even behind-the-scenes content engaging for all listeners. The final moments are filled with well-wishes:

• “I hope if this is your weekend coming up, I hope you could escape somewhere beautiful and hang out and get ice cream, if that's your jam … I hope that everybody is cool to each other because we all need it right now.” (19:16)

For both long-time fans and new listeners curious about the complex web of piracy, history, and scientific heroes, this episode delivers hearty insights with charm and wit.

Transcript

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[Holly Frey]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

[Holly Frey]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

We are back from our trip to Bahamar.

[Holly Frey]

Yes.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

In Nassau.

[Holly Frey]

Yes.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

As we discussed, I had been looking for a topic that was somehow thematically or geographically related to where we were wound up with the Flying Gang. The other thing I really thought about doing, and I don't think I said this in the actual episode for the week, it was the raid on Nassau in 1776 during the Revolutionary War. Long story short, the Americans needed gunpowder. There was gunpowder in Nassau.

[Holly Frey]

The end, they took some boats and

[Tracy V. Wilson]

raided Nassau and got the gunpowder and left. And that it was the first amphibious landing for the US Marines, which sounds really notable until you think about the fact that the US Marines was a brand new entity at that point.

[Holly Frey]

Yeah, I mean, it is still notable and cool, but sure. Different Marines than we think of today.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just. It was such a straightforward thing that I did not think it was going to wind up feeling as fun and interesting as pirates were going to be. And then I also was a little tired of the Revolutionary War, having done multiple Revolutionary War episodes in the weeks leading up to taking this trip.

[Holly Frey]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

In a weird coincidence, as we were preparing for this trip and I was preparing the episode, my friend Jim texted me and said, assassin's Creed, Black Flag resynced is out and you should buy it. He had tried to convince me to play the original game a while back. Cause I had never played it when it first came out and I was trying to play it on steam and I had a stealth mission that I could not successfully complete. I kept getting caught and I bounced off of it really early in the gameplay. And so I bought it and started playing it after this whole episode was written. But like the weekend before, we got on a plane to fly to Nassau and I was like, wow, okay. Yeah. This game is all of the stuff that I just wrote about for the podcast and also other pirates who we have talked about on the show previously. So I've been enjoying that game.

[Holly Frey]

I'm only laughing because I remember you telling me while we were still at Bahamar about Black Flag and I was like, the punk band, like, my brain couldn't get anywhere else. I was just on the struggle bus. Like, how are they related to the.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I didn't listen. It's a different Black Flag.

[Holly Frey]

How dare.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Frey]

I can only handle one thing. Having one name.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right, right. Which is funny because so many things do have the same name.

[Holly Frey]

It's true, it's true.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I'm like, what else do I have to say about pirates this week? It's been so long since we recorded the episode. We typically record behind the scenes immediately after recording the episode. And for reasons of time, that is not what we have done this time.

[Holly Frey]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And so a full week has passed between recording the episode and doing the behind the scenes. And so now I'm like, what. What was I even talking.

[Holly Frey]

What happened.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Talking about a week ago? What did happen?

[Holly Frey]

What happened there?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I don't know if we had ever really talked about how much piracy was interconnected with greater struggles between nations. I mean, we've talked about a number of pirates on the show before, and some of them that caused international incidents, like Henry every when he decided that he was going to attack a convoy that belonged to the Mughal empire. But it was really when working on this one that I got a bigger sense of how much the rise in piracy had to do with things that did not actually have that much to do with the Caribbean and were more about various European powers fighting with one another.

[Holly Frey]

Right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And needing more sailors and having more privateers and then cutting all those people loose for various reasons. And then also the Jacobite movement and the Jacobite rising connected to the whole thing.

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[Tracy V. Wilson]

I read a couple of papers that were just. That was. The whole topic was looking at how many pirates were Jacobites. And if not, like hardcore Jacobites were at least nominally open to the idea of replace the king with someone else. Someone else. And some of them more were Jacobites as a way to express a more anti current British monarchy attitude more generally. Not so much wanting a different king, but being opposed to the king overall.

[Holly Frey]

Yeah, I always go back to that. I'm going back a little bit to what you were talking about a moment ago in terms of the interconnectedness with politics of the idea that, you know, growing up, as you learn about pirates, that stuff tends to be very stripped out. But when you actually start studying it and you realize, like, the whole concept of, like the golden age of piracy really is one of those instances where, you know, huge institutions set up a system and then abandon that system and then criminalize it. Yeah. And it's just like, I guess we're just setting the tone for the next 200 years here.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. You're a civilian and we want you to attack ships, but not those ones, only these other ones.

[Holly Frey]

Oh, and we don't want to be involved in this sticky business anymore. We're done. So.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Frey]

You're on your own. Yeah. It really struck me as we were going through this one, just, man, same thing, different century. Yeah, yeah, man. We know. We have set things up where you are going to depend financially on a system that involves us paying you to do this behavior, which is the only behavior you have ever learned because that's been your trade. But now we're done, that trade is over. I guess you gotta figure out another way to get money. And it's like they don't. There really weren't a lot of options at that point, so.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Frey]

Anyway, anyway. Piracy. Yeah, piracy.

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[Holly Frey]

Do you wanna talk about Thomas Huxley?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Let's do talk about Thomas Huxley.

[Holly Frey]

Thomas Huxley is like a balm to my soul. He's the antidote to Charles Goodyear. Yeah. Who I found infuriating. Thomas Huxley, I love you, man. We all need a Thomas Huxley as a friend. I love the fact that Darwin was like, I know my ideas are controversial. I don't want to fight about it. And Huxley's like, oh, I'll fight about it. I will. Yes. Let's do this. I will. I will. Any takers? I will. I'm ready to defend your ideas.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Frey]

And he did so, so eloquently. We talked in the episode about, you know, what a great writer he was, but he is also, you know, incredibly well spoken. His turn of phrase is so charming and elegant. Even as verbose as, like, the standard writing of the day was. I feel like his just really sings compared to a lot of other writers. I love it. I have imagined and dreamt of that Wilberforce debate.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Holly Frey]

Ever since. I just love the idea of him just smacking somebody down and being like, that's fine.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Frey]

I would rather be related to an ape than be somebody like you.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Frey]

It's such a good burn. Oh, what a good burn. I feel like if Thomas Huxley were alive today, he might be king of jubilee, you know, he'll just debate anybody.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Frey]

Yeah. I just love him. I also love, you know, we set up the episode this way that he made this big blunder. And this is what led me to it. I was looking for marine biology things. Cause I didn't want to do anything super, like, related to the. I just wasn't in the mood for stuff related to, like, the political history of the area or whatever. And I ended up in a marine biology thing that wasn't super duper about, you know, being in the Caribbean. But I really like that he made this big, stupid mistake and was totally confident enough to go, wow, that was a big, stupid mistake. Yeah, Sorry. I'm gonna rectify this at every opportunity. Like, anytime I find a pocket of someone who doesn't Know that I have retracted this, and it's a big, stupid mistake. I'm gonna let them know, and I'm gonna inform them of what the reality was. I love everything about that because it shows incredible strength of character. Right. Everybody is embarrassed by making mistakes in public. And that was a big one, because it really shifted. Like, you know, it was at a time when everyone was so excited about the concepts of, like, we have gotten to this place scientifically, where we can figure out the origins of life, of not just humankind, but all life, and how, you know, for him to think he had it and then be like, whoops. Without being sheepish about it, but by explaining, like, here is how I came to this incorrect conclusion. I just love it. I love it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Frey]

Yeah. I wanted Thomas Huxley in my corner all day, every day. What a dream. What a delight of a human. I had another thing, and now I forget it. I'm still back on, just imagining Wilberforce blushing and getting really curious and running out. I do love that they named that room where the debate happened after Huxley. Just like, the burn never stops. It just keeps going. I do really also love. We didn't talk about it a whole lot, but of course, obviously, like, the idea that this was a person who was all of these noble and, you know, strength of character type things. We've been discussing that. On top of all of that, he was like, you know what? Everybody has the right to an education. Everybody. And I'm gonna do whatever I can with my power, with my platform to reach down and help people up the ladder. Because he, you know, he came from not a wealthy family. I just. I love that about him. I love that he's like, how can we do. How can we demystify science? How can we make science accessible for people who think science is not for them, that it's for people in academia and in, you know, the hallowed halls of. Of the scientific world. How can we make them understand that science is for them too? And how can we make women have more opportunities and educate. What a historical dreamboat. Thomas Huxley. I love him.

[Martha Stewart]

I love him.

[Holly Frey]

Love him so much. Yeah, that's. It was very funny because I was talking about him with my beloved. You know, in the way that you just kind of data dump whatever you're working on or researching.

[iHeartRadio Announcer]

Yeah.

[Holly Frey]

And this was actually not until today, a week later, in the car on the way to the veterinarian. Cause he just had a vet appointment. And I was talking about him. Cause he was like, oh, I don't even know what you guys recorded last week. And we were talking, and I was telling him about Thomas Huxley, and he goes, wait, Aldous Huxley? And I was like, that is, in fact, his grandson. And I was just ready to go. I was excited. Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

When I got your email with the outline in it, and I didn't know what you had been working on, and it just said Huxley. That was my first thought.

[Holly Frey]

Also interesting. Also interesting. You know, brave New World cracked my brain open in new ways when I read it. I think I was 16 when I read it. That was good stuff. That was good stuff. What a legacy. What a familial legacy. I was trying to remember what Thomas Huxley's grandson Andrew had won the Nobel Prize for as I was having this chat with my husband while I was driving. And then I came home and I reread what we had read, which was a quote, because I knew I couldn't parse what that science was. And now I'm like, oh, I don't know why I thought I would have remembered that. All right, great. I'm off the hook. Yeah. Just a phenomenal dude. And what a delight to get to talk about him in our very unique recording space last week. That was a wild one. It was super fun. But there just as a peek behind the curtain for our listeners, the studio, there is, like, windows on two of the four sides, and it is in the middle of a big resort. So there are people just strolling by and sometimes peeking in, which, honestly, I found kind of charming and hilarious.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

There's a cafe back there. Yeah. So we would occasionally see somebody just walking by with their ice cream.

[Holly Frey]

If there are glints for anyone watching on Netflix, if there are glints of envy in our eyes at various points, it's. Cause I'm like, mm, that looks delicious. Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

There were a couple of times where somebody would be doing, I don't know, just. Just goofing off in some way through the window. And I would get kind of distracted and be like, hey, hey. You need to pay attention to what you're doing.

[Holly Frey]

You're working, you're working. You're on the clock.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

You're at work right now.

[Holly Frey]

That's it. I mean, I get distracted while I'm at work all time.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Frey]

It just happens. I hope if this is your weekend coming up, I hope you could escape somewhere beautiful and hang out and get ice cream, if that's your jam. If you don't like ice cream or it doesn't agree with you, I hope you find something else super delicious to eat. I hope if you, you know, can't run away that you at least get some relaxation and do something super fun and restorative. Still eat whatever the delicious thing is if you can. If you have obligations, like maybe your schedule is such that you actually work on the weekends or you have a family that has a lot of errands that needs to need to be run, maybe you got to take your kids to soccer practice. Maybe you got to do any number of things. I hope that even while you're doing all those things or working your job, that you still find moments of joy for yourself and perhaps even ways to make joy for other people. That's very fulfilling and I hope that everybody is cool to each other because we all need it right now. We will be right back here on Monday with a brand new episode. We will also be right back here tomorrow with a classic.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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