Behind the Scenes Minis: Serving Lip and Ethics

Summary

Podcast Summary:
Stuff You Missed in History Class — Behind the Scenes Minis: Serving Lip and Ethics
iHeartPodcasts | April 10, 2026
Hosts: Holly Frey & Tracy V. Wilson

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Overview

In this "Behind the Scenes Minis" episode, Holly and Tracy reflect on two recent main episodes: the remarkable life of blues singer Gladys Bentley, and the story of "the father of hypnotism," James Braid. The conversation delves into the deeper contexts, ethical issues, and personal insights that didn't make it into the primary episodes. They discuss gender presentation, historical accuracy, media manipulation, and medical ethics with their characteristic warmth and curiosity.

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Gladys Bentley: Gender, Media, and Social Context

Main Themes: Gladys Bentley’s unique presentation, the challenges of historical narratives, and the broader social framework for queer lives in 20th-century America.

Gladys’s Striking Presentation

• Holly discusses the often-overlooked detail of Bentley's makeup use despite her masculine presentation:
  • “Any picture I've seen of her… even when she was in that phase… full lipstick, usually a bit of eyeshadow or eyeliner… she was serving lip.” — Holly (03:06)
• Tracy and Holly reflect on how Bentley's public persona was more nuanced than just ‘masculine’:
  • “She’s often talked about as being super mask presenting. And I’m like, yeah, but she always really had… she was serving lip.” — Holly (03:06)

The Question of J.T. Gibson and Maceo Sheffield

• They dig into the questionable reliability of claims about Bentley’s supposed marriage to J.T. Gibson, exploring conflicting contemporary reports and unreliable sources.
  • “Can we trust this dude? I don't know that we should. Right. It's super weird… even in his time…” — Holly (04:14)
• Holly mentions rumors that Gibson never divorced his first wife, which could explain the secrecy and denials:
  • “…If Gibson had been genuinely upset… he apparently never divorced his first wife. This alleged that he was worried there was going to be legal trouble.” — Holly (04:56)

Gender and Sexual Identity: Shifting Narratives

• Tracy highlights that people’s understanding of their own gender and sexuality can evolve:
  • “It is very possible for people to understand their gender and their sexuality very differently over different parts of their lives.” — Tracy (05:26)
• The hosts stress the validity and complexity of such changes, pushing back against rigid narratives.

Media Manipulation and Press Savvy

• Holly notes Bentley’s adept use of the media to further her career, weaving self-promotion into interviews:
  • “…She talks a lot about, ‘I’m still singing. I just recorded a new album.’ Like, she’s kind of working in self promotion… into the discussion. It’s, like, woven through that article.” — Holly (07:00)

Heartbreaking Aftermath and Exploitation

• Following Bentley’s notorious Ebony article, Holly was saddened by reader responses celebrating “conversion”, and the later exploitation of Bentley’s story in pseudo-scientific and conversion therapy contexts:
  • “There are a lot of letters to the editor… maybe not what you're expecting… written by other women who are like, ‘yes, I thought I was gay, but now I'm fixed’… and I'm like, are you? …Here is where I really got chagrined.” — Holly (08:09)
  • “Some of them are, like, very faux scientific… 'there's actually a third sex and it can be cured with hormone therapy.' And it's like, this is. You're exploiting her story to support some very potentially damaging ideas.” — Holly (08:49)
• Tracy powerfully comments on the brutality and failure of conversion therapy:
  • “Which, to be clear, is literal torture. Like, conversion therapy tortures people.” — Tracy (09:10)

Wealth, Access, and Public Pressure

• Bentley’s statement about being “one of the lucky ones” due to affording her so-called “treatment” raises class concerns:
  • “How does that set up a dynamic of… you gotta stay not right if you don't have money.” — Holly (10:00)

Lasting Impact, Resilience, and Aging

• Holly ponders whether Bentley's struggles contributed to her aged appearance later in life, despite being only 51 in a 1958 appearance:
  • “Was she lying about her age or did all of this just really age her?” — Holly (11:29)
• The conversation turns to parallels between Bentley’s era and the present, with gains in LGBTQ+ rights quickly met by backlash.
  • “The evolution of the lavender scare has a lot of parallels to what we are living through now… coordinated backlash that is horrific and inexcusable.” — Tracy (12:23)

Joy in Bentley’s Artistry

• Despite hardship, Bentley’s musical spirit endures:
  • “Even in that phase of her life, once she starts banging away on the piano, it’s like the joy comes out of her. It’s really cool.” — Holly (13:03)
  • The hosts recommend viewers seek out video and audio recordings of Bentley (13:25-14:16).

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James Braid: Medicine, Hypnotism, and Medical Ethics

Main Themes: James Braid’s surgical work, skepticism of mesmerism, and defining ethical medical care in the 19th century.

Scheduling and Research Gaps

• The hosts explain why the Braid episode didn’t become a two-parter, joking about their organizational process (18:03-18:32).

Braid’s Surgical Stories

• Holly shares a vivid story about Braid reattaching a severed finger found in the dirt — both gruesome and a testament to the realities of rural surgery (19:07).

Placebos and Literary Connections

• Braid’s use of bread pills as a placebo is discussed. Holly connects this to Louisa May Alcott’s "Eight Cousins":
  • “If she thinks she needs medication, what if we give her bread pills?... This is something that they do in Eight Cousins by Louisa May Alcott. Did she read about this?” — Holly (20:24)

Literature, Medicine, and Misconceptions

• The hosts discus how literary references, such as in "Madame Bovary," reveal historical surgical practices for clubfoot (22:35–23:31).

The British View of French Mesmerists

• The episode touches on nationalistic skepticism about French mesmerists versus English practitioners:
  • “There was… not just a sense that mesmerism was hooey, but also that you couldn't particularly trust French mesmerizers in particular. …they're all just selling flim flam.” — Holly (24:49)

Braid as an Ethical Medical Practitioner

• Both hosts admire Braid’s humility, care, and refusal to overstep his knowledge. Community trust is central to his legacy:
  • “…They trusted his judgment so much and he was so careful to not ever overstep his own knowledge that they knew. Like if he said I don't know what to do with this, let's take you to a doctor, they would do it. But if he said I understand what's going on here, I think I can help. They were happy to do whatever he said and I just, it speaks volumes about him as a person.” — Holly (29:20)
• Tracy observes the recent focus on ethical medical practitioners who don’t undermine legitimate science:
  • “We're living in a time where there's just so much intentional sowing doubt about medicine in a way that is harming people… I like that we got two in a row… alternative practitioners who were not doing that.” — Tracy (31:45)

Consent and Patient Agency

• Braid’s insistence on consent and transparent communication is praised:
  • “You can only do this to someone with their consent. This… speaks a lot to who he was as a medical practitioner.” — Holly (32:12)
  • “He wasn't… just treating them like a problem to be solved and recognizing their own agency in the healing process.” — Holly (32:12)

Braid’s Surgical Ethos

• Holly appreciates Braid’s efficient, patient-first approach in surgery:
  • “I don't need my knife in someone's eye more than 30 seconds. Like, we're in, we're out, we're gonna fix this. I don't wanna make their lives harder ever. I'm like, oh, that's such a good ethos.” — Holly (33:14)
• The segment closes on a good-natured note about “two non jerks in a row” (33:36).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “She was serving lip. Like, she always had a good, like it was lip glossed.” — Holly (03:06)
• “It is very possible for people to understand their gender and Their sexuality very differently over different parts of their lives.” — Tracy (05:26)
• “Conversion therapy tortures people… It's not effective at doing that.” — Tracy (09:10)
• “How does that set up a dynamic… if you don't have money…?” — Holly (10:00)
• “Was she lying about her age or did all of this just really age her?” — Holly (11:29)
• “We are living in a time… where there's just so much intentional sowing doubt about medicine in a way that is harming people…” — Tracy (31:45)
• “You can only do this to someone with their consent… He wasn’t… just treating them like a problem…” — Holly (32:12)
• “I don’t need my knife in someone’s eye more than 30 seconds… I don’t want to make their lives harder ever. I’m like, oh, that’s such a good ethos.” — Holly (33:14)

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Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:35 | Show start, Gladys Bentley discussion begins | | 03:06 | Gladys’ makeup and gender presentation | | 04:14 | Questionable sources, J.T. Gibson, Maceo Sheffield | | 05:26 | Gender/sexuality shifts over a lifetime | | 07:00 | Gladys’ media astuteness | | 08:09 | Letters to Ebony, conversion narratives | | 08:49 | Media exploitation, pseudo-science, conversion therapy | | 09:10 | Conversion therapy criticism | | 10:00 | Class/access to “treatment” | | 11:29 | Gladys’ rapid aging, stress | | 12:23 | Parallels to current LGBTQ+ rights backlash | | 13:25 | Gladys’ musical performances, joy | | 18:03 | James Braid segment begins | | 19:07 | Braid’s rural surgery, severed finger story | | 20:24 | Bread pills, “Eight Cousins” literary connection | | 22:35 | “Madame Bovary,” clubfoot surgery context | | 24:49 | Suspicion of French mesmerists | | 29:20 | Braid’s medical reputation, humility | | 31:45 | Ethical alternative practitioners | | 32:12 | Consent, patient agency | | 33:14 | Braid’s surgical ethos, focus on healing | | 33:36 | “Two non jerks in a row” — lighthearted wrap-up | | 34:02 | Announcements, upcoming “Unearthed” episode |

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Final Thoughts

The episode offers rich extra context on recent historical profiles, unpacking troubling and inspiring aspects of history, and celebrating figures who, each in their own way, moved against the currents of their time. Holly and Tracy’s conversational style, layered with empathy and humor, brings nuance and insight for listeners eager to go deeper than surface-level history.

Recommendation:
If you enjoyed hearing about Gladys Bentley’s complexity or are curious about the early days of hypnotism, seek out the main episodes referenced as well as the mentioned performance clip of Gladys Bentley.

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Transcript

[Tracy V. Wilson]

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[Tracy V. Wilson]

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[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio. Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

We talked about Gladys Bentley this week.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

In her sort of wild ride of a story.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

It is.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. In some ways it's so exuberant and joyful and wonderful that it makes talking about the parts that are a little bit trickier feel like a letdown, but those are also important.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

One of the things that we didn't bring up during the show that is a little more on the lighter side. I didn't know for sure if this was always the case or not like we talked about, you know, she was in many ways very masculine presenting.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

She was a large woman who wore these tailored men's suits. So striking.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

She always had makeup on.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh.

[Holly Fry]

Like any picture I've seen of her, she Always had, even when she was in that phase of her life, full lipstick, usually a bit of eyeshadow or eyeliner, like, so it was just interesting to me, that juxtaposition. And at first I thought, oh, maybe it's just for stage.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

But then I saw a picture of her, like, out and about in New York and she had makeup on. And I was like, well, maybe she liked me. I mean, that happens too.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

It just struck me as interesting that she's often talked about as being like, super mask presenting. And I'm like, yeah, but she always really had, like, she was serving lip. Like, she always had a good, like it was lip glossed. It was not just like a color thing.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

And so I was fascinated.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Okay. So the article.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And the things. One, I'm surprised because I have not seen anyone really, except for one book. And even they did not go into deep. They went into a little bit more detail. Most people do not mention the problem of Maceo Sheffield and his claims about J.T. gibson.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. He is obviously a questionable source.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

And I, I, A lot of people are like, well, she said that she was married to this, this theater critic, but his best friend said that he vehemently denied it. And like, often that's just where it's left. And I'm like, was he best friends? I don't know that that's verified.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Can we trust this dude? I don't know that we should. Right. It's super weird, even to the point, even in his time, like we've talked about many times on this show, like, oh, in the 1700s, you could change your identity and no one would question it. But this is in the 1920s and 30s.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

And then in the 50s, right. Where he's like, he's become a completely different person. And there are a lot of news articles about him from that time talking about all the accolades he should get for, like, his work in the black film industry. So it's like it was a whole life refresh for him after that.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Which is wild. But I did find an interesting article that only briefly mentioned that one of the reasons if Gibson had been genuinely upset, even if maybe they had gotten married or there was an understanding that she could say that because he apparently never divorced his first wife. Oh, this alleged that he was worried there was going to be legal trouble.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

But again, this is all speculation and gossip. We don't know.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Her article is so interesting to me because it is very possible for people to understand their gender and Their sexuality very differently over different parts of their lives. Right.

[Holly Fry]

For sure.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And the idea of being born that way has been sort of part of the queer rights movement, trying to dispel the idea that it's a choice and that, like, the sort of popularity of that idea has come and gone at various points over the decades. So, like, I don't want to suggest in any way that if somebody in their young life describes their gender or their sexual orientation or something in one way, and then later on in their life, they describe it in a totally different way. Like, I don't in any way want to suggest that that's not valid.

[Holly Fry]

Right. They know themselves better than we do.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right. But this seems so clearly to have been happening in the midst of this, with a corresponding rise in the queer community's efforts to get just basic dignity and rights and a backlash to that. Like, that's definitely part of the context there.

[Holly Fry]

And this leads into a couple of other things that I wanted to talk about. One was one piece of analysis. I think it was a paper that I read that suggested that, really, if you look at this, you could consider it through the lens of how astute Gladys was at using the press to the advantage of her career. Because if you read that article, you'll notice she talks a lot about, I'm still singing. I just recorded a new album. Like, she's kind of working in self promotion of what she's doing with her music career into the discussion. It's, like, woven through that article, which is very smart and just an interesting way to look at it. Here is where I got sort of heartbroken about the article. And it's not the article itself. There are two things that happened. One is that in subsequent issues of Ebony, there are a lot of letters to the editor that are maybe not what you're expecting. They are written by other women who are like, yes, I thought I was gay, but now I'm fixed and I'm right, oh, no, and I'm okay. And it's a little like, ooh. How much of this was going on where people were just being told who they were was wrong. It's very heartbreaking to read it, even though they often are like, and now I'm married and I'm happy. And I'm like, are you? Again, people can be. People can shift their identity. They can realize different things about themselves at different stages of life. But it was so many that I was like, here is where I really got chagrined. Though there were a lot of other articles that came out in the 1950s that Gladys does not appear to have had anything to do with that. Sort of use her as an example.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh, no.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Of like. See, see, some of them are, like, very faux scientific. You know what I mean? Like, there's actually a third sex and it can be cured with hormone therapy. And it's like, this is. You're exploiting her story to support some very potentially damaging ideas.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yes. Well. And also kind of feeds into the idea of conversion therapy, which, to be clear, is literal torture. Like conversion therapy tortures people.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. PTSD is like. There are a lot of papers about it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. It's not effective. I mean, if you take the idea as good that you could change someone's sexual orientation, which I am not saying that at all, but if you started with that as your baseline, it doesn't do that. Like, it does. It doesn't. It's not effective at doing that.

[Holly Fry]

No.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And then also that whole idea, like, I just. We don't need to be doing that in the first place.

[Holly Fry]

Like. Yeah. I mean, I'm very curious what her experiences were when she was a kid when her mom was taking her to doctors. And. I don't know. I mean, clearly she had reconciled with her mom since they were living right there together in the 50s. But I can't imagine in the late teens and early 1920s what that would have been like. Very misguided. The other thing that's interesting that she mentions in the article is that, well, I'm one of the lucky ones. Cause I'm wealthy enough to afford this treatment. Oh. And it's like, how does that set up a dynamic of like. Well, if you're one of these unfortunate people who's not right, you just. I guess you gotta stay not right if you don't have money. And it just, like, there are so many problems and layers and like a stack of problems. And then especially when it gets flipped and she gets held up as this emblematic example of, like, how you could fix your life. And then to kind of put a button on all of that. One of the books that I looked at, there's a chapter on her. And one of the things that that writer mentions that I had not considered before I read it was that he notes that when there is that footage of Gladys on You Bet yout life in 1958, she looks a lot older than 51.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And it's like, okay, was she lying about her age or did all of this just really age her? Because when you see her, like, right up to the Point that she kind of leaves New York and goes to la. She still looks like that. Incredibly gorgeous, vibrant, you know, very youthful. And it seems like in a short period of time, that shifted really quickly. And I'm. I don't know that we'll ever unlock what was going on there. Listen, sometimes people just go through a period where they age very quickly.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to my recent years. But through nothing other than just my genes hit the moment where they're like, by the way, here come all of the things. So I don't know, but it does make me wonder if all of this was incredibly stressful for her.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

It seems like it has to have been.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I think that her life and what she went through over those decades and the, like, the evolution of the lavender scare has a lot of parallels to what we are living through now, where we got the tiniest, tiniest bit of protection and equity for trans people. And then that sparked a coordinated backlash. That is horrific and inexcusable.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, yeah. And in her case, there is that extra layer of. That's all the stuff that made me famous and wealthy. What's gonna happen to me now?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Like, where does my career go now when I'm not allowed to be that anymore? Which is, you know, just another layer, I imagine, of stress. So if you can go take a peek at that video of her singing, it sure is worth it, though, because even in that phase of her life, once she starts banging away on the piano, it's like the joy comes out of her. It's really cool.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

And she was just amazing. And also, you get to see Groucho Marx and this other guy kind of dancing to it, which is pretty fun because Groucho Marx in the program, I mean, I don't know what he got briefed on before it, but it's like he realizes as he's talking to her, to her, oh, you're that Gladys Bentley. Like, he didn't recognize her. So it's really, really fascinating. It's, you know, it's a very short little piece that you can find online and worth it if you seek it out. So anyway, that was Gladys Bentley.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Cool. Blues and jazz singer against some of those songs we're filming. You can find audio recordings of some of her other songs. That's just the only one that there's footage of. But, yeah, there are definitely lots of audio recordings. And her voice is so good. So good.

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[Holly Fry]

We talked about hypnotism and James Braid this week. We did. As I was telling Tracy before we started recording, this almost became a two parter because I really like getting into the minutiae of his life in particular. But I that would have been very janky for our schedule to have a two parter when we're recording today. Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Because I had already written a two parter and it was not going to flow correctly if we had another one. So sorry I stepped on.

[Holly Fry]

No, you didn't at all. You were ahead of me in getting stuff done. So you have every right. Yeah. We try to keep two parters in the same week and this one is gonna have to go on a Monday when we already have a Wednesday aligned. So we were like, well, that won't work. Which is fine. And really it probably made it better because I would have gone down weird paths that I can talk about now. One story that I was fascinated by and also a little listen, if you're squeamish, this may or may not bother you. I actually found it kind of funny.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

Because it's so here's what it's like to be a surgeon in a mining town kind of story. So we mentioned that one of the things he treated on a few occasions when he was at Lead Hill was like severed fingers. And there was one story that he somebody had come to him and said like, hey, I have cut off the tip of my finger and it's bleeding. And he's like, well, did you pick up the tip of the finger? And he was like, no. And like, they literally went out and found it in the dirt and then had to sterilize it and put it on. And I'm just like. And apparently that went very well. And he was successful and the man recovered just fine. But I'm just like, holy Moses. Holy Moses. There were also a couple of moments in his biography and little minutiae type stories that reminded me. They kind of accidentally reference literature. And one of them made me go, did that author read about this or was this common practice? Which is. We talked a little bit about how even, you know, during his surgeries, his whole thing was like, don't overtax the patient. That will actually damage their recovery. Sure. And because he came to be so respected, a lot of other surgeons and even physicians would come to him and get his opinion. And there was one case where somebody came to him to talk to him about a patient who was this woman that kind of had a lot of kind of nebulous maladies. Right? Like, and they weren't chalked up to like, oh, nervous disposition. Which is what a lot of legitimate issues often got umbrellaed under. But it seemed like there was a really earnest desire to, you know, help her through whatever was going on. And as he. As brade kind of heard the details of the case, he kind of took a step back and said, you're giving this poor person an awful lot of medication. Like, kind of hoping that it's gonna work, but maybe it won't. And so he actually was one of those people that was like, if she thinks she needs medication, what if we give her bread pills? Like, we basically mash down bread to look like pills. And that way she still has the placebo effect of thinking she's. This is something that they do in Eight Cousins by Louisa May Alcott. And I was like, really? Did she read about this? Or was this something that other doctors did sometimes? Cause Uncle Alec in that book, Alec or Alex does that at one point where he makes little bread pills for somebody. Cause he similarly is like, you don't need to be hyper medicated all the time for everything. When doctors are just playing guesswork about it. But so many people at that point, you know, often and even today, I mean, there are so many people who are like, I think I need medication for this. And it's like, well, maybe. But it reminded me of that. The other thing that was interesting to me in the. I wanted to make Sure. I understood, like, exactly how clubfoot happens and what the actual issue is. And I ended up down a weird Reddit rabbit hole. Okay. Because. So we recently discussed Gustave La Bear and Madame Bovary.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Book I love. There is in that book an instance where a young man who is like an adult with clubfoot is operated on by Emma Bovary's husband, Charles, and his leg is amputated, and it goes horribly, and his quality of life suffers. And I happened upon, while I was looking for. Cause I had that moment of, like, Charles did do a clubfoot thing in Madame Bovary. And I searched that online, and I find this, and it was interesting. And if any of these people that participated in this thread hear this, I mean, I hope they do. Cause they may understand the nuance of it. Cause they're all like, charles is an idiot. Because one of them looked up how clubfoot is treated, and they were like, that's not how you treat clubfoot. And I'm like, okay. But at the time when the Bovarys were existing, that was how it was treated.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right?

[Holly Fry]

They were. Just before, like, these more nuanced surgeries started to come into play, it just made me laugh. I was like, is everything in James Braid's story gonna be related to a piece of literature that I love? Maybe, maybe. But I'm gonna use Madame Bovary as a jumping off point. Because, you know, we talked in our Emile Couet episode about, like, him also being, like, kind of of once removed, generationally, in terms of exposure to the teachings of mesmerism, like, stepping even further away from it, and him being like, no, you actually don't even need hypnotism to affect change in your life on a subconscious level. But I did think it was funny because there is a long chain of French people who were into mesmerism, et cetera. Because, of course, it came about in France initially. But there was one thing I read that was talking about James Braid and, like, particularly La Fontaine coming to England and there being not just a sense that mesmerism was hooey, but also that you couldn't particularly trust French mesmerizers in particular.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

French.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, because it was like, oh, there are so many French mesmerists, and they're all just. They're all just selling flim flam, which I just thought was really relief. I don't know. I just loved it. Some British TV characters are so iconic, they feel larger than life. Take Hercule Poirot, Agatha Christie's meticulously groomed detective whose mustache has a personality of its own. Or David Brent from the Office, a man who turned workplace awkwardness into a study in secondhand embarrassment. Britbox has the characters you simply won't be able to get out of your mind. Ludwig charms as the brilliant yet offbeat puzzle maker turned accidental detective. Jane Andrews captivates in the lady, inspired by the true story of the royal dresser whose fairy tale ended in scandal and murder. And of course, the Mitford sisters show us how to stir up controversy in Outrageous, based on one of Britain's most notorious families. If you like your characters clever, complicated and occasionally infamous, you might have just found your next rabbit hole on Britbox. Start watching with a free [e-mail]. Unlike the people we normally talk about on the show, we are living in a time when Internet connectivity is a standard part of life for most people, and there is literally no way we could research and prepare our podcast without the Internet. If connectivity goes down for me, it can be really hard to make up that lost time. And for businesses, Internet connectivity is even more of a necessity. Spectrum Business keeps businesses of all sizes connected seamlessly with fast and reliable Internet, advanced wi fi, phone, TV and mobile services. Spectrum business offers 100% US based customer support and they do it 24. 7. That means you can always stay up and running no matter what hours your business keeps. Spectrum Business also will tailor connectivity solutions just for you. They will put a package together that is built for your business budget. Millions of business owners rely on Spectrum Business to keep them connected, so visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more. Restrictions apply. Service is not available in all areas.

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[Holly Fry]

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[Tracy V. Wilson]

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[Holly Fry]

I also I mentioned at the in the course of the episode but I wanted to mention it again because I really I have an odd affinity for James Braid after doing the research on him that that obituary that does mention. Like no, everybody called him doctor because he took care of his entire community. They went to him for things that normally you would see a physician and not a surgeon for. But they trusted his judgment so much and he was so careful to not ever overstep his own knowledge that they knew. Like if he said I don't know what to do with this, let's take you to a doctor, they would do it. But if he said I understand what's going on here, I think I can help. They were happy to do whatever he said and I just, it speaks volumes about him as a person. And again like post Emile Couet where I also wanted somebody who was like actually fairly noble in their desires to help people and not trying to be a weasel. Yeah, this is my series on non

[Tracy V. Wilson]

weasels in medicine and like non grifter complimentary medicine.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, absolutely not. Yeah, he wasn't like Trying to make any money off of explaining hypnotism other than, you know, book sales or whatever. But even so, he. He would routinely just write into the paper and explain things like in letters to the editor of, like, hey, you know, the science that you're talking about here, you don't have it quite right. Here's what's really going on. And here are the other writers who have discussed this. Like, literally just writing essentially, like, you know, a paper with citations as part of his letters to the editor, which is just free knowledge he's given away, which I love.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I also just, like, I like that you've done, I think, two episodes in a row, I guess, about somebody who was trying to help people, trying to help them recover, trying to help make their lives better, but without, like, undermining and casting doubt on medical science, which I think is, like, really important, because it's true that there are things that medicine doesn't understand, and there are a lot of people who, in one way or another, are either left behind by or excluded from the world of medicine.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And there are other things that can help make people's lives better. But, like, we're living in a time where there's just so much intentional sowing doubt of about medicine in a way that is harming people that I like that we got two in a row kind of people that I would put in the umbrella of alternative practitioners who were not doing that.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Although he was also continuing, like, his surgical practice throughout all of this. He just saw hypnotism as another tool that you could potentially use to help people. Like, it's. It's a thing in the toolbox, but it's not the only thing, which I just thought was great. I also loved his whole idea of, like, you can only do this to someone with their consent. This isn't. Which I think speaks a lot to who he was as a medical practitioner. You know what I mean? He wasn't. You hear so many instances of very kind of pompous doctors or surgeons throughout history, and I know it's still happens today, who are just like, you don't know. I know. Just listen to me. Which, like, they might know, but, like, it goes miles further to explain to somebody everything that's going on and what's gonna happen to them rather than just kind of treating them like a problem to be solved and recognizing their own agency and the healing process. Like, to me, I mean, that goes back to, like, his whole thing of, like, I don't need my knife in someone's eye more than 30 seconds. Like, we're in, we're out, we're gonna fix this. I don't wanna make their lives harder ever. I'm like, oh, that's such a good ethos. He's not trying to do exploratory anything. He's literally like, let's identify the problem,

[Tracy V. Wilson]

fix it and get out.

[Holly Fry]

Great.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Out as fast as possible.

[Holly Fry]

How can I make you heal as best you possibly can? Which is great. Which is great. I love it. I like you, James Braid. Check two non jerks in a row for me. Hooray. I feel like I have to find somebody really terrible in the not too distant future. Yeah, we'll see what happens. I actually do have somebody kind of terrible coming up, I think, but not in a medical way.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I know I've already said recently that Unearthed was coming soon. It is coming soon. It's the next thing I'm working on. But that's still means it'll be a little bit before it actually comes out.

[Holly Fry]

Unearthed. I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just being weird. If you have weekend coming up that involves time off, which we all need desperately, I hope that you get to do something fun and restorative that prioritizes your desires and what will make you feel the best. And also just that you get time to do whatever it is that delights you. I hope we all find joy in whatever way we can every single day, so long as it is not hampering anyone else's joy. If you do have to work or you have other responsibilities, maybe you're running family members around and doing stuff or got to take cats to the vet which involves wrangling them into a carrier and a lot of stress and possibly pee. I don't have any experience with that recently. I hope even if you have a lot of responsibilities that may or may not go smoothly, that you still have as good a few days as possible coming up. We will be right back here on Monday with something brand new tomorrow. You can also check out a classic episode.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, Experience scenic views and private rooms that let you stretch out, enjoy hassle free travel as it should be on Amtrak. Book some Z's at Amtrak.com Amtrak retrain

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