Behind the Scenes Minis: Society for Disastrous Accidents

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Behind the Scenes Minis: Society for Disastrous Accidents"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Stuff You Missed in History Class
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Description: Join Holly and Tracy as they bring you the greatest and strangest Stuff You Missed In History Class in this podcast by iHeartRadio.
• Episode: Behind the Scenes Minis: Society for Disastrous Accidents
• Release Date: December 20, 2024

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Introduction

In the "Behind the Scenes Minis: Society for Disastrous Accidents" episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class, hosts Holly Fry and Tracy B. Wilson delve into the intricacies of the SL1 nuclear reactor incident. This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of America's first nuclear accident, examining its causes, consequences, and the broader implications for nuclear safety and military oversight.

Background on the SL1 Nuclear Reactor Incident

The episode begins with Holly and Tracy revisiting the SL1 nuclear reactor accident, highlighting its historical significance as the first of its kind in the United States. Tracy sets the stage by explaining the rarity of such incidents in U.S. history, noting that prior to SL1, there had been no major nuclear reactor failures in the country.

Tracy B. Wilson [12:35]: "We talked about the SL1 nuclear reactor incidents on the show this week. Yeah. Not the most peppy story."

Military Involvement and Inter-Branch Dynamics

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the interplay between different military branches in managing nuclear technology. Tracy suggests that the Army's permissive attitude towards the SL1 reactor's issues may have contributed to the oversight that led to the accident. She contrasts this with the Navy's potentially more stringent approach, theorizing that had the Navy been in charge, the reactor might have been shut down earlier to prevent disaster.

Tracy B. Wilson [14:05]: "It had been something like 19 years that that critical reactor or that nuclear reactors had existed. And so that might have led people into a false sense of security, slash complacency."

Safety Measures and Failures

The hosts delve into the safety protocols (or lack thereof) surrounding the SL1 incident. They discuss how the absence of robust safety measures and contingency plans exacerbated the situation, leading to catastrophic outcomes. Tracy emphasizes the critical oversight in not planning for the containment and management of radioactive materials in the event of an accident.

Tracy B. Wilson [17:18]: "While the temptation or pressure to implement new technology can be great, premature use can end in premature failure."

Impact on Communities and Indigenous Peoples

Tracy brings attention to the often-overlooked impact of nuclear incidents on surrounding communities, particularly indigenous populations. She highlights historical patterns where areas designated for nuclear testing or development were falsely portrayed as uninhabited, disregarding the presence of indigenous peoples and the subsequent devastating effects on their communities.

Tracy B. Wilson [17:22]: "Describing areas where nuclear testing or other nuclear work was going to happen as empty or uninhabited. And that has been false. And really there were indigenous people living there."

Research and Resources

The episode references Tracy's extensive research, including her consultation of the book "Idaho Falls, the Untold Story of America's First Nuclear Accident." This resource provides a more personal and human account of the SL1 incident, contrasting with the often clinical and detached military reports.

Tracy B. Wilson [20:03]: "The book was one of the last things that I read in the research of doing all this, having already read and made tons of notes that was based off of government reports."

Ethical Considerations and Respect for Affected Families

Holly and Tracy address the ethical responsibility of discussing historical accidents without further harming those affected. Tracy explains her deliberate choice to omit the names of the wives of the men involved in the SL1 incident to prevent retraumatization and respect the privacy of the families.

Tracy B. Wilson [21:21]: "It was an intentional decision on my part not to include the names of any of the wives... I don't wanna add to the spectacle of people hounding them for many years."

Conclusions and Lessons Learned

The episode concludes with reflections on the lessons learned from the SL1 incident, emphasizing the importance of rigorous safety protocols and the dangers of complacency in technological advancements. Holly and Tracy advocate for the integration of these lessons into modern safety training to prevent future disasters.

Tracy B. Wilson [17:18]: "Premature use can end in premature failure. So Adrian, I hope you were happy with the episode that we did."

Notable Quotes

• Tracy B. Wilson [14:05]: "Premature use can end in premature failure."
• Tracy B. Wilson [17:22]: "Describing areas where nuclear testing or other nuclear work was going to happen as empty or uninhabited. And that has been false. And really there were indigenous people living there."
• Tracy B. Wilson [20:03]: "The book was one of the last things that I read in the research of doing all this..."

Final Thoughts

Holly and Tracy conclude the episode by urging listeners to appreciate the complexities and human elements of historical incidents like the SL1 nuclear reactor accident. They emphasize the importance of learning from the past to foster safer and more ethical practices in the future.

Savannah Guthrie [21:07]: "If something horrible happens in someone's life... please don't hound them and bug them about it for years afterwards, because that's disgusting."

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This episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class offers a thorough and thoughtful examination of the SL1 nuclear reactor incident, shedding light on lesser-known aspects of nuclear history and the enduring impact of such disasters on individuals and communities. Through meticulous research and respectful discussion, Holly and Tracy provide listeners with valuable insights into the complexities of technological advancement and the imperative of prioritizing safety and ethics.

Transcript

[Tracy B. Wilson]

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[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Hello and happy Friday. I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And I'm Tracy B. Wilson.

[Savannah Guthrie]

We talked about Joaquin Torres Garcia this week. Yep, this is one of those times.

[Holly Fry]

Where.

[Savannah Guthrie]

My forgetful brain takes A minute to put together what a thing is in terms of references. Because I had said at the top of the episode that I was trying to work on another Latin American artist, and I kind of sputtered out because there just was not enough material that I could get my hands on that was in English, Right. And so I was like, who are other Latin American artists? And I had done some searching online and consulting lists, and I saw his name and I was like, oh, that's interesting. And I started reading about him, and then I started looking through my pictures that I took when we were in Barcelona at various museums, and I'm like.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, there's his work.

[Savannah Guthrie]

There's his work again. I already had him on my list. I just forgot. Yeah, listen, the brain is what it is. But I'm so glad that I came back to him because I really enjoyed.

[Holly Fry]

Learning more about him.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Even with a Madame Blavatsky jump scare. She's everywhere, that woman. I told you before we started, listen.

[Holly Fry]

She had good marketing because she literally.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Is everywhere, influencing everybody for a pretty wide period of time.

[Holly Fry]

It's strange, but also hilarious.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah, I marvel I said it while we were recording Taurus, Garcia was the.

[Holly Fry]

Busiest bee in the hive.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah, he was always hustling, and I don't mean that in a pejorative sense, but he was always, like, teaching, forming new schools of art, forming new publications of art, writing his own books about art theory, painting things, finding new forms of art that he could do. But what I really marveled at was.

[Holly Fry]

How much he and many of the artists in his circle really loved to form societies and orgs.

[Savannah Guthrie]

They were just like, I know, let's form another society. And I found myself sitting there imagining, like, were they just sitting around at, like, a cafe? And they were like, you know what? We need one more society. Yeah, but it makes me chuckle a little bit. And again, I don't mean that in a negative way. I just. There's a lot of groups. It's also really interesting that, like, some of those, even as he was very much rejecting some of the European schools of thought, a lot of those societies were forming in very Eurocentric places where.

[Holly Fry]

A lot of the other artists were.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Like, I'm going to mimic the Green Masters. Just interesting. I didn't mention it in the episode because I have issues with Picasso, as many people do, for the reasons that he was not a great human being. But there was a funny story that came up several times while I was researching where. When he was in Paris, when Torres Garcia was in Paris, where Picasso also was, at the time, in the nineteen teens, and he started talking about, I might go to New York. Picasso was like, new York is a void. Don't do it. Which just tickled me a little bit.

[Holly Fry]

Here's my other big thing from this episode.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Max Ernst. He came up a million times. Listen, Max Ernst has been on my.

[Holly Fry]

List for a very long time.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I have a Max Ernst inspired tattoo. He is the artist whose work made me want to get tattoos in the first place. I love his work. Une cemente bonte is one of my favorite things. I keep putting it aside for reasons I don't entirely know, possibly because I don't want to find out something horrible about him.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Sure.

[Savannah Guthrie]

But as I was working on this and he kept coming up in exhibitions with Torres Garcia, he kept coming up in, like, other social circles, et cetera. I'm just like, I see you, Max Ernst. I'm coming for you. I swear I will do that episode. At some point, it's almost like he's haunting me, which is fine. Max Ernst, welcome to the show. At some point in the not too distant future, I'm gonna knock it out just so I will stop being, you know, inundated with it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Anyways, I think it's interesting that we don't get a lot of Torres Garcia in.

[Holly Fry]

I didn't.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I don't remember talking about him in any of my art history learnings as a student. And he was super important, so it's kind of weird. But I'm. I'm glad to have the opportunity to talk about him a little bit. Yeah, a little bit.

[Holly Fry]

His.

[Savannah Guthrie]

His wife founded the museum that is named for him in Uruguay. And that seems like a very cool place. Even though a lot of his stuff did get destroyed in that fire elsewhere. But they do a lot of other.

[Holly Fry]

Artists, of course, there as well.

[Savannah Guthrie]

So if we're ever there, guess where I'm going.

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Right.

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[Tracy B. Wilson]

We Talked about the SL1 nuclear reactor incidents on the show this week.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Not the most peppy story.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

No.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Happy holidays, everybody.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. One of the things that I, I think might have been going on in some of the. Some of the things that were, like, there are giant holes in the safety plan is the fact that there really had not been an incident like this in the United States since nuclear energy had first been developed. There had been other accidents. We have talked about that. We talked about them in the demon core episode. Right. But that was not like a nuclear reactor failing in some way. And there have been other obviously nuclear reactor accidents since then, but this was the first one. And if I recall correctly, it had been something like 19 years that that critical reactor or that nuclear reactors had existed. And so that might have led people into a false sense of security, slash, complacency. But still, what do we do with radioactive bodies in the event of an accident? Seems like something that should have been planned for as a possibility at a site that was specifically for developing prototypes for nuclear reactors.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah, it's one of those things where I find myself wondering, like, was this Just such an unpleasant possibility to contemplate that no one brought it up thinking.

[Holly Fry]

They didn't want to be the guy.

[Savannah Guthrie]

That suggested to their superiors that their system was going to fail.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

And thus things went horribly awful.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah, But I don't know.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. One of the things that I found alluded to in some of the things that I read for this episode, which I didn't put into the core of the episode because it was something that I felt. I felt like I couldn't really substantiate, was that the army was more permissive of the SL1's various problems. And that had the Navy been making decisions about it in this whole sort of interplay among the different branches of the military, that the Navy would have shut it down way before, prior to this incident happening. Like, as soon as the stickiness problem revealed itself, that the Navy would have been like, I'm out, Tracy, trying to.

[Holly Fry]

Start a fight on this behind the scenes.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, we're gonna have a behind the scenes between the army folks and the Navy folks. But I'm just saying this is. And I was like, is this the truth, or is this, like, reflective of attitudes about the different branches of the military among one another? I don't actually know. I watched a number of videos as well. I was preparing for this. And the one that was an Atomic Energy Commission kind of brief on the accident that had the recreation of what they were doing when it happened had the weirdest tone to me. It was definitely a product of its era, that era being the 1960s. And it really felt like a video that one might find in a derelict government building in a Fallout video game. And I. Like, there were other. Other videos that were also made by the Atomic Energy Commission that I watched that had a similar vibe to them. Um, and then there was one, as I was trying to confirm whether people said do line or whether they spelled it out D E W line. And I watched a video that was on the do line that had been made while it was in use that had many minutes of like. Like, Cold War scaremongering before we got to the first mention of the DEW line. And that a little bit reminded me more of my early childhood and, you know, the final stages of the. The Cold War and how people would talk about the Soviet Union and nuclear capabilities and all of that. And I got very frustrated with that one in particular, because I was like, just say Doolan. Just say it.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Say the thing I need to know how to say.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I beg.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Couple of random notes that I also had we have a history in the United States of describing areas where nuclear testing or other nuclear work was going to happen as empty or uninhabited. And that has been false. And really there were indigenous people living there.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Like that happened with the Manhattan Project and it happened with various like nuclear weapons tests and has had devastating effects on those communities. There's also a whole additional side of this that we talked about in the demon core episode about the role of indigenous people in mining radioactive materials to be used in nuclear fuel. All of this. So I went down a rabbit hole of trying to be like, was this surrounding area really empty or not? Right. And it was not something that I found a conclusive answer to. I found some very sort of couched in what Wikipedia editors call weasel words about like if there were sheep or cows grazing nearby, they might have been affected. And I'm like, well, but were there? It was so tremendously cold that night that I think it would have been very difficult for any living thing to just be out exposed in the temperatures. But like, I don't really know. And then the last thing is that this incident tying into how it's really seemed like there were various safety things that should have been in place earlier is now an example that gets used in basically training about safety and like failure prevention. And I read a quote that was by Brian O'Connor, chief of safety and mission assurance at NASA, in a slide deck about this that was about the Cold War era applying today's thing that people say about knowledge workers of move fast and break things, of having almost that same mentality during Cold War technological advancements. And the quote was, quote, while the temptation or pressure to implement new technology can be great, premature use can end in premature failure. And I just really liked that quote. That's totally true. Premature use can end in premature failure. So Adrian, I hope you were happy with the episode that we did.

[Holly Fry]

Ho ho ho.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I think Adrian would like a multi part Netflix special or something. Also there is a whole book about it. I just closed my outline. What is the name of the book? The book was one of the last things that I read in the research of doing all this, having already read and made tons of notes that was based off of government reports. And so the name of the book was Idaho Falls, the Untold Story of America's First Nuclear Accident. And it has more of a, you know, human account of it rather than the many military reports.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Which read like military reports. So yeah, that's probably the last nuclear accident we'll talk about for a while because a Lot of the nuclear accidents are a lot more recent than we talk about on the show.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah. Also, as a personal favor to me.

[Holly Fry]

If something horrible happens in someone's life.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And there are rumors about the nature of what was going on in their lives before it happened, please don't hound.

[Holly Fry]

Them and bug them about it for.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Years afterwards, because that's disgusting.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Hi.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I know you're grieving your husband, but.

[Holly Fry]

Was one of you cheating?

[Savannah Guthrie]

Is there something going. Yeah, no. It doesn't matter. You don't need to know that information.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

It was an intentional decision on my part not to include the names of any of the wives. All three of the men were married. Two of them had children. One's wife was pregnant. And I. I don't think any of the people involved are living at this point, although they're children, maybe. And the fact that people were like, they did kind of become this focus on something they really didn't have anything to do with. I was like, I'm not gonna name them specifically because I feel like I don't wanna add, even though they're at this point probably deceased. Add to the spectacle of people hounding them for many years. In one case, one of them had gotten married and was sort of trying to move on with her life, and it kept being brought back up. Rude and gross and rude again. Lot of documentation of this reactor. Having issues before any of it happened. Yeah. Yeah. So if you'd like to send us a note about this or in some way, we're at history [e-mail] whatever is happening over the course of your weekend, I know a lot of people are moving into hardcore getting ready for Christmas holiday mode. Not everyone, but, you know, if that's what's coming up in your world, I hope that all goes really smoothly. And if you've got travel coming, that goes well. We'll be back with a Saturday classic tomorrow and something brand new on Monday. Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Here's to the season. From hanging ornaments in matching pajamas to building gingerbread houses with extra icing and staying up late to wrap gifts and watch movies, these traditions make the holidays truly special. And through it all, the Chinet brand is there to share in the joy. With the Chinatte Crystal Collection, holiday tables are perfectly coordinated, allowing for excellence with less cleanup, so everyone can focus on what really matters. Here's to the traditions that bring everyone together year after year. Here's to us, all of us. Find a local [e-mail] Driving can sometimes.

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[Tracy B. Wilson]

Ah.

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