Behind the Scenes Minis: Tracy’s Frustration

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stuff You Missed in History Class - "Behind the Scenes Minis: Tracy’s Frustration"

Introduction

In the episode titled "Behind the Scenes Minis: Tracy’s Frustration," hosts Tracy B. Wilson and Holly Fry delve into the complex history of Pellagra, a disease linked to dietary deficiencies, particularly in regions reliant on corn as a staple food. Released on March 7, 2025, this episode offers a nuanced exploration of Pellagra's historical context, the socio-economic factors contributing to its prevalence, and the frustration of oversimplified narratives prevalent on the internet today.

---

Historical Context of Pellagra

The discussion begins with Tracy recounting their extensive two-week exploration of Pellagra, emphasizing its significance not just in the southern United States but also in Italy and other parts of the world where populations relied heavily on corn-based diets.

Tracy B. Wilson [02:28]: "We talked about Pellagra for two weeks."

Tracy highlights that while Pellagra is often associated with the southern U.S., it has been a persistent issue in various regions where corn constitutes a primary food source.

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Indigenous Food Processing vs. Colonizer's Actions

A significant portion of the episode addresses the commonly held belief that Pellagra resulted from colonizers dismissing indigenous methods of processing corn, such as treating it with alkaline solutions to make niacin more bioavailable. Tracy challenges this narrative, arguing that the root cause was not a mere cultural clash but rather the exploitation inherent in capitalist systems.

Tracy B. Wilson [02:33]: "The problem was capitalism exploiting people and trying to give the poorest people the cheapest, lowest quality food possible as their staple."

She contends that the shift to industrial milling technologies, like the degerminator patented in 1902, led to the widespread consumption of inferior corn products, exacerbating nutritional deficiencies.

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Tracy’s Frustration with Simplistic Narratives

Tracy expresses frustration over internet videos and sources that portray the decline in pellagra cases as a direct result of colonizers undervaluing indigenous food processing techniques. She feels this oversimplification neglects the broader socio-economic exploitation and systemic issues that played a more pivotal role.

Tracy B. Wilson [02:48]: "I started second guessing myself. I really thought that people were for sure eating hominy, and poor people for sure eating hominy."

Her frustration stems from encountering numerous sources that fail to capture the complexity of Pellagra's causes, leading her to question widely accepted explanations.

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Examination of Historical Sources

To substantiate her claims, Tracy references a 1924 USDA Farmer's Bulletin titled "Corn and Its Uses for Food," which outlines methods for preparing hominy—a process that indicates hominy consumption was both common and accessible.

Tracy B. Wilson [07:57]: "This was just one part of this bulletin that had numerous recipes for things that you can make with hominy."

She emphasizes that the Bureau of Home Economics promoted hominy without deeming it "weird" or "un-American," contradicting the narrative that colonizers rejected indigenous corn processing methods.

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Discussion on Corn Consumption and Modern Perceptions

Holly and Tracy transition into a lighthearted discussion about contemporary corn-based foods, such as grits, hominy, popcorn, and regional specialties like shrimp and grits. This conversation underscores the enduring cultural significance of corn and its various preparations, illustrating that hominy remains a staple for many even today.

Holly Fry [09:01]: "How are people not passing out all the time? Like, I'm a low blood sugar baby..."

Their exchange not only highlights personal food preferences but also sheds light on the nutritional implications of a corn-heavy diet, subtly tying back to the historical discussion of Pellagra.

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Cultural and Personal Reflections on Corn-Based Foods

The hosts share personal anecdotes about their relationships with different corn products, revealing the deep-rooted cultural connections and regional variations in corn consumption. Tracy reminisces about obtaining grits during the early COVID-19 pandemic, while Holly expresses her love for dishes like shrimp and grits.

Holly Fry [20:57]: "Shrimp and grits is one of my all-time. Easily in the top 10 favorite dishes."

These reflections serve to humanize the historical discourse, bridging past and present dietary practices.

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Conclusion and Broader Societal Implications

Wrapping up the episode, Tracy urges listeners to consume a variety of foods and support local food banks, tying the historical discourse on Pellagra to contemporary issues of food insecurity and nutritional health.

Tracy B. Wilson [27:09]: "So anyway, eat a variety of foods."

Holly adds a personal touch by sharing their tradition of celebrating a made-up Star Wars holiday that encourages donations to food organizations, emphasizing community support and awareness.

Holly Fry [27:32]: "But everybody celebrate Ha Tong's Day with me this year in whatever way you want to... donate to a food org on Mardi Gras or anytime I have a food bank."

Tracy concludes with a hopeful note, expressing a desire for listeners to find joy and peace amidst chaotic times, reinforcing the episode's underlying message about resilience and community support.

---

Notable Quotes

• Tracy B. Wilson [02:33]:

  "The problem was capitalism exploiting people and trying to give the poorest people the cheapest, lowest quality food possible as their staple."

• Tracy B. Wilson [07:57]:

  "This was just one part of this bulletin that had numerous recipes for things that you can make with hominy."

• Holly Fry [09:01]:

  "How are people not passing out all the time? Like, I'm a low blood sugar baby..."

• Holly Fry [20:57]:

  "Shrimp and grits is one of my all-time. Easily in the top 10 favorite dishes."

• Tracy B. Wilson [27:09]:

  "So anyway, eat a variety of foods."

---

Final Thoughts

"Behind the Scenes Minis: Tracy’s Frustration" offers a compelling examination of Pellagra, challenging oversimplified historical narratives and highlighting the interplay between diet, socio-economic factors, and cultural practices. Through thoughtful dialogue and personal anecdotes, Tracy and Holly provide listeners with a richer understanding of how historical dietary deficiencies like Pellagra are intertwined with broader societal issues, encouraging critical thinking and greater appreciation for the complexities of history.

Transcript

[Tracy B. Wilson]

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[Larison Campbell]

In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

7,000 bodies out there or more.

[Larison Campbell]

A forgotten asylum, cemetery.

[Holly Fry]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell and this is under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Eric Andre]

Hey, what's up, y'all? This is Eric Ondrake. Well, I made a podcast called Bombing about absolutely tanking on stage. I tell gnarly stories and I talk to friends about their worst moments of bombing in all sorts of ways. Bombing on stage, bombing in public, bombing in life. I want to know what's the worst way they've ever bombed? Or have they ever performed way too drunk or high? Or was there ever a time where they thought they were going to crush and they stunk it up? Listen to Bombing with Eric Andre, Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Bombing Bombing with Eric Andre.

[Maria Tremarchi]

Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'm Maria Tremarchi.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarchi]

Each season we explore a new theme, from poisoners to art th thieves.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarchi]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartrad.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

We talked about Pellagra for two weeks.

[Holly Fry]

We sure did.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I said in the episodes I was not expecting or planning for two did not know about all the stuff that was involved in Italy of course, as we said, that there, there is, is and has been pellagra in parts of the world besides the southern US and Italy. But it became particular problem in those places and still today, places where especially people are living mostly on corn. A lot of times corn that has been through, well meaning ways donated from the international community to places where there is famine or unrest or war or whatever. We are going to talk about Tracy's frustration in this episode. And the frustration is overly reductive Internet videos, okay, Because I watched several videos about namalization and several of them had this sort of narrative of this is how the indigenous peoples of the Americas, really, all across the Americas, some nuances to how different nations and peoples did things. But like some kind of treatment of the corn with alkaline water or ash or something that was making the niacin more bioavailable. And then it would be like, but the colonizers thought that was stupid and they didn't want to do it. And that's why there was pellagra. And that's not really accurate, right? Because foods like hominy and masa harina, all the things that are made with masa like those became foods that the colonists were also eating. Hominy, in particular, the poorest people were eating. And that continued to be the case for centuries after colonization started. Like we said in the episode, it is like, there seems to be a correlation between milling technologies, particularly the big degerminator that was patented in like 1902. There seems to be a correlation between that and pellagra rates because now there was a way to give corn a really long shelf life that didn't involve nichtmalizing it, that was more labor intensive. So, like, the problem was not that colonizers were being picky about indigenous food ways. The problem was capitalism exploiting people and trying to give the poorest people the cheapest, lowest quality food possible as their staple. But I watched so many videos that had that as the narrative that I started to second guess myself. I was like, I really thought that people were for sure eating hominy, and poor people for sure eating hominy. I can't speak to Mesoamerica and South America, but like all over North America at least. Like, what's going on with this? And I started looking through old recipe books to be like, am I just. Am I, Am I misunderstanding something fundamental? And so now I'm going to read to you from a 1924 USDA Farmer's Bulletin, okay, prepared in the Bureau of Home Economics A bureau that we have a whole episode on. This is on from a farmer's bulletin called Corn and Its Uses for Food. And this is a section called Lie Harmony or hulled corn. Quote. This is easily made at home from any variety of white or yellow dent or flint corn. The kinds with fairly large kernels are easier to hull than those with small kernels, and only clean sound ears should be used. The hulls and germs are loosened by steeping the corn in a lye solution, rubbing off the hulls, then washing out the lye, and finally boiling the corn. Sometimes the kernels are boiled with the lye, but cold soaking is also efficacious and gives what many consider a more delicate flavor. The Division of Cereal Investigations of the Bureau of Plant Industry recommends the following. Dissolve 5 ounces of lye, sodium hydroxide or caustic soda in 6 quarts of cold water. Stir in 5 quarts of corn and let it stand 15 hours. Wash thoroughly to remove the lye and the hulls. Rubbing the hominy in a cloth bag helps to take off the hulls. When the washing is finished, the hull and black tip should be off and the kernel should look clean. The slight discoloration which the lye causes may be removed by soaking the hominy overnight in water to which a little salt has been added. Cover with water to which 5 tablespoons of salt have been added and boil in a covered kettle for three to four hours or until thoroughly cooked, making sure that the hominy remains covered with water. Changing the water once or twice during the cooking will lessen the taste of the lye. Five quarts of corn will make from 15 to 20 quarts of lye hominy. This was just one part of this bulletin that had numerous recipes for things that you can make with hominy. And the Bureau of Home Economics did not advocate for foods that they thought were weird or quote ethnic. We talked about that in our episode on them. So after really just sort of like questioning, I was like, but. But hominy, though. No, really, like, people really were eating a lot of hominy. And it really was not people's personal food preferences that led to cornmeal being the only thing that was sold in the company store.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

So anyway, I got really. I gotta be in my bonnet about that. Like, I get the wanting to make that the narrative. I totally understand that. And there are a lot of indigenous foods that are totally overlooked or foods that are indigenous developments that people who are not indigenous have no idea that's where it came from.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

All that's valid. But I was like, this is not. People were still eating hominy, though. They're still eating hominy today. I could go to the store and I can buy hominy off the shelf.

[Holly Fry]

You know what I wondered through this whole thing?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

What?

[Holly Fry]

How are people not passing out all the time? Like, I'm a low blood sugar baby, and if I don't have a high pro glow, I'm gonna crash really hard.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Like, I can't even imagine subsisting exclusively off of cornmeal. Cornmeal. Or even just all, like, you know, relatively simple carbohydrates.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I would not be a little fat back in there. That might help a little, but for a minute. But eventually I'm going to stop functioning.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Like, without pellagra involved at all.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right, Right.

[Holly Fry]

I'm like, no, the mental illness is because my brain is not getting any of the things it needs to keep going. Yeah. Yeah. That's like the scariest to me is, like, entire diets with no protein in them. I'm like, what is. No.

[Larison Campbell]

There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

It's terrible, terrible dirt.

[Larison Campbell]

Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

[Larison Campbell]

Former patients of the old state asylum, and nobody knew they were there.

[Holly Fry]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

[Holly Fry]

Nobody talks about it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Nobody has any information.

[Larison Campbell]

When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

[Maria Tremarchi]

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Larison Campbell]

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to under yazukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Maria Tremarchi]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarchi]

Each season, we explore a new theme. Everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Maria Tremarchi]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Holly Fry]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Maria Tremarchi]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jamie Petras]

September 1979. Virginia's top prison band, Edge of Daybreak, is about to record their debut album, Behind Bars in just five hours.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay, we're rolling. One, two, three, four.

[Jamie Petras]

I'm Jamie Petras, music and culture writer. For the past five years, I've been talking to the band's three surviving members. They're out of prison now and in their 70s, their past behind them. But they also have some unfinished business.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The end of Daybreak, Eyes of Love was supposed to have been followed up by another album.

[Jamie Petras]

It's a story about the liberating power of music, the American justice system, and ultimately, second chances. Listen to Soul incarcerated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the Greatest true crime Stories Ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something else that I definitely didn't understand researching this episode is that I was like, okay, something about corn was making people develop pellagra. I'm imagining that everybody's just like, chomping down on ears of corn on the cob. Like, I didn't really have a sense that, no, the corn was being dried. It was being milled into cornmeal or grits or whatever. As I understand it, historically, prior to colonization, it was a lot more common to in most of the Americas for the corn to be nichtimalized so that it would have this longer shelf life. And not so much to like roast up an ear of corn and eat it.

[Holly Fry]

Right. But you could pop it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Popping it, too. We do have that whole episode on popcorn, which I do love popcorn. Before we started recording, Holly and I started talking about all the types of corn that we love to eat.

[Holly Fry]

Yes. And don't.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And don't.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I'm not like the. As we said Then I'm not the biggest fan of just, like, corn. Although I'm coming around. Something is happening to my taste buds. Or, like, now I'm like a roasted corn I'm okay with, but for the longest time, I just did not want whole corn.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I do not want creamed corn by any stretch of the imagination. I can't imagine a food that grosses me out much more than that.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

But I love popcorn and I love things made with ground corn with cornmeal.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh, sure.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, the flavor. Oh, goodness. A good matzah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. I love corn on the cob. I love corn grits, which, again, most of the, like, the very mainstream North America food companies that are selling, like, instant grits. It might have the word hominy on the label, but that's probably not nichtamalized corn being used. Some of the more specialty producers will specifically say on. On the labeling that it is corn that has been treated in some way with, like, an alkaline processing. But yeah, love corn on the cob. Love grits. Love, like, catfish breaded in cornmeal. So good. There are a lot of, like, Mexican, Mesoamerican sort of street food dishes that involve corn and various cheese, like elotes and esquites. I think that's how those are pronounced. I did not look it up before coming in here. I'm sorry. But I love both of those and various things that have corn as an ingredient in there. Very into it. And again, if you're eating a ton of corn that hasn't been nishtimalized, as long as you're also eating a variety of other foods, probably fine. Probably fine.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. I was just going to say, you know, living in the south, there are strong opinions about grits, but there's only one grit for me, and it is the flying biscuit. Creamy, dreamy grit.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh, so good.

[Holly Fry]

Holy Moses.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

If you are in the south and you are near a flying biscuit.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And you've never had them.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Get thee to flying biscuit. Dreamy grits. They're so good.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, man.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I also like shrimp and grits.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, my favorite.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Moving to Massachusetts meant less availability of grits. I feel like that's a slightly shifted now, but I remember one time, this was shortly after I had moved to Massachusetts. We stopped for some reason, like, we were just out and about doing stuff. And for some reason, we stopped at a very large but very standard chain grocery store in Massachusetts in Brookline, and they had a whole wall of different varieties of grits. In with the oatmeal and all that. And I was. My mind was absolutely blown because I had not seen grits in a store in a super long time. And even now, it's like the place that I usually grocery shop has at most one kind of instant grit. And that's your option, Tracy.

[Holly Fry]

If only you knew someone who still lived in the south and could ship you grits.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Could ship me grits as much as I want.

[Holly Fry]

Why don't you just send me your list? We'll get it handled.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

During the early Covid time when many of us were mostly at home, we were getting things in bulk through mail order from a place that is sadly no longer in business. And one time, not one time, they started having these giant boxes of grits, and I was like, give me the grits all the time. Grits, comfort food in these days of uncertainty, having returned to days of uncertainty.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

What I've actually been doing recently is cream of Wheat, which is not.

[Holly Fry]

It's as good as you remember.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

That was the ad campaign when we.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Were kids for Cream of Wheat.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. I don't remember this.

[Holly Fry]

I'm telling you. I know all the commercials. I was a child raised by television, and I love advertising jingles to this day.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

There is a place in. I think this is in Somerville. I don't live there. I don't live in Somerville anymore. So I don't remember if this was in Somerville or if it was like over the line in Cambridge called the neighborhood that had a cream of wheat. And we would get it sometimes when a bunch of friends, we were going to go somewhere and we would stop and get some to go, and we would eat it walking down the sidewalk. And I have started trying to mock up their cream of wheat in my own house in breakfast recently. It's got some similarities to grits, but it's not quite the same thing.

[Holly Fry]

Mm.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Anyway, delicious, yummy foods.

[Holly Fry]

Now I think I have to make shrimp and grits for lunch. Thanks, Tracy.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I'm very excited for you.

[Holly Fry]

Shrimp and grits is one of my all time. Easily in the top 10 favorite dishes.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yes.

[Holly Fry]

And I love. I love trying everywhere's version.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, it's the best. We have grits in the house right now. We don't have any shrimp, so sadly, no shrimp and grits for me.

[Holly Fry]

So, yeah, I like to do grits with a little scallion in the pan first.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Fun.

[Holly Fry]

Let that get brown and even a little crispy. And then you do your grit situation.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And then there's just Scallions spread throughout them, making deliciousness.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

That sounds really good.

[Holly Fry]

It is.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Really good.

[Holly Fry]

I love it. I love it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I do find more shrimp and grits on restaurant menus.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Here.

[Holly Fry]

I get so excited when we're going somewhere that has shrimp and grits. I remember mentioning in an unrelated conversation, which was actually about Star wars, when I was at a convention in Salt Lake that I. Any restaurant I go to that has shrimp and grits on the menu, especially if I'm somewhere I don't go, I almost order. Always. That's the thing I order. And I was surprised at how many people in the audience of that panel were like, I'm sorry, shrimp and what are you eating? Like, they just thought this sounded like the most gruesome dish one could put before a human. And I'm like, come to the shrimp and grits side. It's really quite delicious.

[Larison Campbell]

There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

It's terrible, terrible dirt.

[Larison Campbell]

Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

[Larison Campbell]

Former patients of the old state asylum, and nobody knew they were there.

[Holly Fry]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

[Holly Fry]

Nobody talks about it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Nobody has any information.

[Larison Campbell]

When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

[Maria Tremarchi]

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Larison Campbell]

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to under yazukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Maria Tremarchi]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarchi]

Each season, we explore a new theme. Everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Maria Tremarchi]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Holly Fry]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Maria Tremarchi]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jamie Petras]

September 1979. Virginia's top prison band, Edge of Daybreak, is about to record their debut album Behind Bars in just five hours.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay, we're rolling.

[Holly Fry]

One, two, three, four.

[Jamie Petras]

I'm Jamie Petras, music and culture writer. For the past five years, I've been talking to the band's three surviving members. They're out of prison now and in their 70s, their past behind them. But they also have some unfinished business.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The Everyday Race Eyes of Love was supposed to have been followed up by another album.

[Jamie Petras]

It's a story about the liberating power of music, the American justice system, and ultimately, second chances. Listen to Soul incarcerated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the Greatest true crime Stories Ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. While there was, you know, a Southern pride around these foods and the roles that things like fatback and salt pork played in cooking and all of that, there was also stigma about some of the foods and hominy's association with poor people made like other people who could afford a richer variety of food, like, not really want to deal with that. Yeah, makes total sense that the department of Home Economics was like, yes, this is how you can do this yourself at home. Because part of their whole deal was trying to give people who were facing hardship tools to have, like, more nutritious foods at home that had its own baggage that we talked about in those episodes because, like we said, they did not get behind foods that they thought were weird or un American in some way for the most part.

[Holly Fry]

But yeah, yeah, I hate that defensiveness about regional identity and pride. Probably cost some people their lives.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, well, and then it became a situation of the people who had really criticized that it could be dietarily related. And it became increasingly evident that, yes, this was related to diet continuing to double down because then it sort of seemed like they were gonna come off as having been backward and stubborn.

[Holly Fry]

So just be more so that'll fix it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, we've seen it everywhere in our lives. The people who were wrong and can't admit that they were wrong about something.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

So anyway, eat a variety of foods.

[Holly Fry]

If you are able.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. And you know, if you are able, donate to your local food bank.

[Holly Fry]

Yes.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

There is a lot of need right now for food at the food banks.

[Holly Fry]

There is. This is where I will talk about briefly the made up Star wars holiday that I do.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

Which is that every year on Mardi Gras, we have started going instead to Walt Disney World and we go to Galaxy's Edge and we celebrate what we call Huttongs Day, essentially Mardi Gras. But it is in Star wars and part of that that I always tell friends. Cause they're like, can we run around the parks with you? I'm like, yes, absolutely. We've gotten quite a nice herd together. But the thing that we always do is like, I'm not gonna police you, but please, as part of this, donate to an organization that feeds people. Because the whole point of like having a very yummy time running playing should be that, like, may we all have plenty is my governing thing. So that's just our goofy way that we do it among our friend group which expands delightfully each year and makes it a fun thing out of reminding everyone to take care of each other by donating to food organizations. But everybody celebrate Ha Tong's Day with me this year in whatever way you want to. If you're not into Star wars, you can just donate to a food org on Mardi Gras or anytime I have a food bank.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And also we have a local food rescue organization that goes and gets the stuff that's gonna be thrown out from the restaurants and grocery stores. And they redistribute that. And then also Meals on Wheels.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Whose federal funding I think was frozen.

[Holly Fry]

I think so. Yes.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. And I don't know what the situation is with that at this point. And I'm sure it will be different by the time this episode comes out.

[Holly Fry]

Because everything by the time we're speaking about it to when you hear us.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Speaking about it, who knows what will have happened? So we've alluded to the chaos of the times that we're living in. I really hope that everyone is able to find some moments of joy and peace. Because those moments of joy and peace can make the other stuff that we've got to deal with more deal withable.

[Holly Fry]

Yes.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And we will be back with a Saturday classic tomorrow and something brand new on Monday. Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Larison Campbell]

In Mississippi, Yazoo clay keeps secrets.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

7,000 bodies out there. Or more.

[Larison Campbell]

A forgotten asylum, cemetery.

[Holly Fry]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is is under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Eric Andre]

Hey, what's up, y'all?

[Holly Fry]

This is Eric Andre.

[Eric Andre]

Well, I made a podcast called Bombing about absolutely tanking on stage. I tell gnarly stories and I talk to friends about their worst moments of bombing in all sorts of ways. Bombing on stage, bombing in public, bombing in life. I want to know what's the worst way they've ever bombed? Or have they ever performed way too drunk or high? Or was there ever a time where they thought they were going to crush and they stunk it up? Listen to Bombing with Eric Andre on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Bombing.

[Holly Fry]

Bombing with Eric Andre.

[Maria Tremarchi]

Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Frey. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarchi]

Each season, we explore a new theme, from poisoners to art thieves.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarchi]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jamie Petras]

45 years ago, a Virginia soul band called the Edge of Daybreak recorded their debut album, Behind Bars. Record collectors consider it a masterpiece. The band's surviving members are long out of prison, but they say they have some unfinished business.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The Edge of Daybreak, Eyes of Love was supposed to have been followed up by another album.

[Jamie Petras]

Listen to Soul incarcerated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.