Behind the Scenes Minis: Wanda’s Motivations

Summary

Stuff You Missed in History Class - Episode Summary: "Behind the Scenes Minis: Wanda’s Motivations"

Release Date: April 25, 2025
Hosts: Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson
Production: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In the "Behind the Scenes Minis: Wanda’s Motivations" episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class, hosts Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson delve deep into the intricate life of Wanda Gog, a historical figure whose legacy is as complex as it is intriguing. This episode offers listeners an intimate exploration of Wanda's motivations, personal battles, and the societal perceptions that shaped her life.

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Perception vs. Reality: The Image of Selfishness

The episode opens with a candid discussion about Wanda Gog's reputation among her peers. Pasha Eaton shares insights into the conflicting views held by Wanda’s friends:

"They were like, she was really selfish and kind of hard to be around. And I'm like, oh, that would explain why there aren't a lot of friends in her picture a lot of the time." [03:00]

Tracy V. Wilson probes further into this perception, questioning how Wanda's efforts to support her family might have contributed to her seemingly selfish demeanor:

"From a really early age she was trying so hard to financially hold her family together... I might as an adult be a little selfish." [03:11]

The hosts suggest that Wanda's prioritization of her own desires and artistic ambitions may have been misinterpreted as selfishness, rather than a necessary focus to sustain her family.

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Family Dynamics and Close-Knit Relationships

Despite criticisms from some friends, Wanda maintained strong bonds with her family. Pasha highlights her close relationship with her youngest sibling, Flavia:

"Her youngest sibling, Flavia, spent a lot of time with Wanda throughout her life staying at her house. And her other siblings would often stay there as well." [03:10]

This section underscores the duality of Wanda's personality—caring and dedicated to her family while appearing distant or self-centered to others.

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Numerological Fascinations and Symbolism

An intriguing aspect of Wanda's life is her family's connection to the number seven, which Pasha describes as a "weird numerology thing":

"The house was originally painted with seven different colors... it has seven different window shapes. It has seven rooms. And then they had seven children. And then both Anton and Lissie died when they were 49 years old. At seven squared." [04:17]

While Pasha admits skepticism about its significance, the recurrence of the number seven adds a layer of mystique to Wanda's background.

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Wanda's Stance on Alcohol and Personal Struggles

Wanda's aversion to alcohol played a significant role in her life choices. Pasha explains how Wanda's negative experiences with alcohol, particularly witnessing her mother's misuse, influenced her decisions:

"She didn't want any part of it... she didn't like him drinking either. And that was part of what precipitated her being like, we should move." [07:05]

Additionally, the hosts touch upon Wanda's personal health challenges, including the termination of a pregnancy and severe menstrual issues:

"She called her period 'Hallelujah'... extremely painful for several days... she was basically bedridden because it was so painful." [07:04]

These personal battles highlight the resilience Wanda exhibited in the face of adversity.

---

Broader Reflections on Women's Health and Autonomy

Transitioning from Wanda's personal life to broader societal issues, the hosts engage in a heartfelt conversation about women's health and the medical system's shortcomings:

"There is no such thing as closure." [04:17]
"Do it for me. Tell your doctor Holly said so." [17:34]

They emphasize the importance of self-advocacy in healthcare, sharing personal anecdotes about misdiagnoses and the challenges women face in getting their health concerns taken seriously.

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Wanda’s Passions: Art, Sex, and Gardening

The episode concludes on a lighter yet profound note by exploring Wanda's three passions—art, sex, and growing things. Pasha reflects on how Wanda viewed her artistic endeavors not just as a career but as a means to support her art:

"She thought the books that made her most famous were kind of like, I'm just doing this so I have money to make art." [20:01]

Tracy appreciates Wanda's unapologetic confidence and encourages listeners to channel her spirit:

"Invoke a little bit about that Wandagog spirit and advocate for yourself and be confident in yourself." [20:13]

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Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Holly and Tracy wrap up the episode by celebrating Wanda Gog's multifaceted life, urging listeners to draw inspiration from her resilience and unwavering dedication to her passions. They also reiterate the importance of self-care and medical vigilance, leaving the audience with both historical insights and personal reflections.

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Notable Quotes

• Pasha Eaton [03:00]: "She was really selfish and kind of hard to be around... that would explain why there aren't a lot of friends in her picture a lot of the time."

• Tracy V. Wilson [03:11]: "From a really early age she was trying so hard to financially hold her family together... I might as an adult be a little selfish."

• Holly Fry [04:17]: "Stop using that word because there is no such thing as closure."

• Pasha Eaton [20:13]: "Invoke a little bit about that Wandagog spirit and advocate for yourself and be confident in yourself."

---

Conclusion

"Behind the Scenes Minis: Wanda’s Motivations" offers a nuanced portrayal of Wanda Gog, peeling back the layers of her public image to reveal the complexities of her character and life. Through engaging dialogue and thoughtful analysis, Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson present a compelling narrative that enriches our understanding of this enigmatic historical figure.

For those eager to explore more about Wanda Gog and other fascinating historical personalities, be sure to tune into Stuff You Missed in History Class on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

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[Holly Fry]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Trimarchy, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrars. Known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s, her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hannah Smith]

After a crime. You read the headlines, but do you know the story?

[Pasha Eaton]

At the time that I called the police, he knew I had called them and left the house with a firearm.

[Hannah Smith]

And was texting me that he was gonna use it. I'm Hannah Smith. And I'm Pasha Eaton. We host the Knife, a podcast from the Exactly Right Network that cuts to the heart of the story. Through in depth interviews and candid conversations, we'll bring you firsthand accounts of people living through the ripple effects of crime. Most of us don't know the legal process. And because they always tell you this word, closure, I really wish people would.

[Holly Fry]

Stop using that word because there is no such thing as closure.

[Hannah Smith]

These are the scars that are left behind. These are the voices you haven't heard. New episodes every Thursday. Listen to the knife on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Pasha Eaton]

I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lodd and this is season.

[Anna Sinfield]

Two of the War on Drugs podcast.

[Pasha Eaton]

Last year a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This is star studded a little bit, man. We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter and it brings a face to it. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast. Season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

[Anna Sinfield]

Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Pasha Eaton]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello and happ. Hi, I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

[Pasha Eaton]

And we talked about Wanda Gog all week.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

You know what we did not talk about regarding Wanda Gog? A lot of her friends kind of talk trash about her.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh, really?

[Pasha Eaton]

They were like, she was really selfish and kind of hard to be around. And I'm like, oh, that would explain why there aren't a lot of friends in her picture a lot of the time.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Although her siblings remained very close to her, her youngest sibling, Flavia, spent a lot of time with Wanda throughout her life staying at her house. And her other siblings would often stay there as well.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I have questions.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yes.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So based on her life story, it seems like from a really early age she was trying so hard to financially hold her family together.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So the characterization of her is selfish. Like, I, I get it. I get how a person can be in a friend context coming off as selfish, maybe self centered.

[Pasha Eaton]

Right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

But it's, and I, it's, it's in some ways seems at odds with this idea of like having really tried from her teens to try to keep the family afloat. But also part of me is like, I feel like if I were in that situation and I were from my teenage years meticulously tracking my money to try to keep my family fed, I, I might as an adult be a little selfish.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, I would be self indulgent as hell. I mean, I think part of it probably is actually that she lived for no one else but Wanda Gog. Do you know what I mean? Like, her desires were her primary priority, which I think is fine and great. She didn't do a lot of like, well, would so and so be unhappy if I do. It'd be like, this is what I want to do. This is what I'm going to do. And I think on top of the fact that she was pretty conceited about her artistic talent probably rubbed people the wrong way, but they couldn't just put it that way. So instead they said she was selfish. Do you know what I mean? Because that would be like admitting that like, they didn't, they weren't on even footing in terms of art career. There's a fun factoid that I saw on a video that is on the website for the wandagog house. And it is a weird numerology thing, but it's fascinating. It is the importance or the constant recurrence of the number seven in her father and mother's lives. The house was originally painted with seven different colors when he built it, when he only had the one child, not seven. It has seven different window shapes. It has seven rooms. And then they had seven children. And then both Anton and Lissie died when they were 49 years old. At seven squared. It's just weird. I don't think it means anything. I don't. I'm just saying it's interesting. I love it. But speaking of her parents, there's a thing we mentioned that Wanda was perceived by her friends as being kind of Victorian in her social values.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

And one thing we didn't talk about in the show, and in part because I feel like it's a thing that's a little hard to pick apart, is that I think she had some early experiences with people drinking that she did not like.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Pasha Eaton]

Apparently, after her father died, you know, we talk about how the kids are all doing all the work to support the family. And her mom. Mom really wasn't. And she was physically ill. But it seems like also she may have had a problem with alcohol misuse at the end of her life because she had been prescribed by a doctor at some point to drink beer to help calm her nerves. And it seems like that escalated. And so I feel like Wanda would never speak ill of her mother.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Pasha Eaton]

But it seems like that impacted her perception of drinking and alcohol use, and she didn't want any part of it. And one of the reasons that she and Earl, one of the reasons she wanted to move from a house they had been in in the country for several years was that they had a neighbor that would come over and drink with Earl, and she didn't like him drinking either. And that was part of what precipitated her being like, we should move, which is just interesting. I don't think she ever. I read her younger year diaries, and I read a lot of her other writing, but I never saw, and it could be in there somewhere, anything that specifically said, like, hey, I saw people drinking, and that was horrible, and I didn't like it, so I didn't want any part of it. But she never was a drinker at all. Like, I think she just associated it with not good things and painfulness, which is kind of interesting. She also. There are a couple of things about her personal health that I did not include. She did, at least one time in her life, terminate a pregnancy, which she's pretty open about in her diary. She also had a lot of issues with her period throughout her life, which was another thing that she would try to describe to doctors, and they would be like, you need rest. But they were bad enough that, like, when she would get her period, it would be extremely painful for several days. And it was bad enough that she had to structure her life around. Like, I need to have those days off because I can't do anything right. Like, she was basically bedridden because it was so painful. It was hard to move. So. But I will say that she called her period by a funny name. Much like vacation is a funny name for open relationship.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Pasha Eaton]

She called her period. Hallelujah.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay.

[Pasha Eaton]

I don't know if that's something she started calling it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Because she was having some sexual dalliances.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay. That would make sense.

[Pasha Eaton]

I can't imagine another reason you would call it that, especially if it brings nothing but pain.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right, right.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. Hey, everyone, we want to tell you about our podcast.

[Hannah Smith]

Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I think our universe is absolutely extraordinary.

[Pasha Eaton]

Hello, I'm Kelly Wie Smith. I study parasites along with nature's other creepy crawlies. And there's just endless things about this universe that I find fascinating.

[Hannah Smith]

All right, well, basically, we're both nerds. We love learning about this extraordinary universe and we love sharing what we've learned. So that's what we're going to do.

[Pasha Eaton]

And on our podcast, Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe is all about the mind blowing discoveries we've made about this crazy.

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[Tracy V. Wilson]

Each Tuesday and Thursday, we take an.

[Pasha Eaton]

Hour long dive into some science topic, during which time I try to suppress my biologist training and keep the poop jokes to a minimum.

[Hannah Smith]

Learn all about our amazing and beautiful universe on Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe. Every Tuesday and Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Anna Sinfield]

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[Anna Sinfield]

So come and join our girl gang. Listen to the Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarkey, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the highwayman suggests men dominated the field. But tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Hear the story of the gentleman robber, the romantic darling of the ladies, and a tale about a wager over a sack of potatoes. But you'll have to tune in to learn who won that one. Some highwaymen were well mannered or faked it. People were concerned about the romanticism of robbers, but most were just thugs. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Call them robbers or bandits. Some are legendary figures. Listen to stories about historical crimes on Criminalia now. Plus the cocktails and mocktails inspired by each. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

We have made some progress as a society in terms of women's health.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

But like as an example, my mom has a progressive neurological disorder that she spent so many years going to doctors and specialists and having them tell her it was just stress.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

It's not. Her neurons are being actively damaged in her body.

[Pasha Eaton]

Right. Yeah. That happens a lot. I mean, I. Not to be too overshery about personal stuff, but. Right. You remember at the beginning of last year I was having. Don't anybody be scared. I'm fine. I was having chest pain, which my doctor kept telling me was because I was eating spicy food, even though I was like, I don't know how to eat spicy food. I will eat all the butter, but I Can't really do spices. I can never tolerate them. I don't know what's going on. And it turned out that I had, like, a big old gallstone lodged in the duct between my gallbladder and my stomach. And it was like, you know, you're just. I think it's spicy food and stress and you're drinking too much coffee and not taking care of yourself. And, like, there was a week where I wasn't allowed to eat because we were trying to, like, get all of the stuff out of my system. And it was like, it didn't get any better.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Until I was in the er and they were like, oh, girl, that's not what's up.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right. Right. I remember the extended misery of, like, trying to avoid coffee during all of that. And then you had your gallbladder out, and it was like, everything resolved.

[Pasha Eaton]

Everything was fine. Instantly fine. Felt great after that. Yeah. It was. It's kind of funny we're not there yet, and I'm sure some of it is just right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Like, some of it's the system, and it applies to everyone, but there are disproportionate things that affect everyone who's not a man.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like, too, a lot of the times, because menopause has not been studied all that much. Right. Compared to other things. It's not to say that there haven't been any, but when you say something, sometimes they'll just be like, oh, that's probably menopause. Or, I don't know, maybe. Is this menopause?

[Hannah Smith]

I don't know.

[Pasha Eaton]

Maybe. And so it can get really frustrating. So it doesn't surprise me that she was going to doctors and going, I think I'm starting menopause. I think it's giving me problems.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And they were like, probably not.

[Pasha Eaton]

Something in my chest hurts. And she was like. They were like, you need to lie down.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. I've had multiple conversations with people in my friend group about perimenopause specifically, and how everything we know about it we have learned from each other and. And not from doctors.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And you'll go to the doctor and have, like, the similar situation of, like, I'm having these things happen. And they're like, yeah, may, maybe.

[Pasha Eaton]

Maybe.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

You know, I feel like I have a doctor that does listen to me and does, like, And. And will order tests to try, but it still is, like, we don't really for sure know why this is happening. All of the tests are normal. Maybe perimenopause, maybe.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

And I will Say this is like my moment to do a little psa. I know that healthcare is not available to everyone, but if you can and if you have access and if you are able to, please get all of your baseline screenings done as often as you possibly can on your yearly or whatever schedule, because it's. When you have that in place, it's easier to see the variations that indicate something else is wrong. Yeah, I know it sucks, but please do it and take care of yourself, because you're the only one we have.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And I will also add to this that, like, I know it can be really hard for a number of reasons to stay on top of the things that your doctor has asked you to do. But, for example, I would not know that I needed an increase in my blood pressure medicine had I not been trying to take my blood pressure at home three times a week like my doctor asked.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, I mean, that stuff is really important, especially as you kind of hit our age, you know, as the world.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Becomes progressively more chaotic and possibly the increased stress in your life is making your blood pressure significantly higher.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, yeah. We mentioned in the course of the episode when Earl and her brother decided not to tell her she had advanced stage cancer, that it was not entirely unlike, unheard of for that to be the case, even though she in her diary is like, they're giving me X ray therapy. I'm pretty sure this is cancer. Not uncommon. Hard to hear that in our age where we are a little more aware of. Conscious of often discussing the ideas of bodily autonomy. And it's easy to want to condemn that choice. But I don't think that didn't feel especially out of hand, given time and place.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right, right.

[Pasha Eaton]

And because Earl was obviously really devoted to her at the end of her life, you know, he did basically put aside everything he had going on to take care of her.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

But it's also weird.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. By the time these episodes come out, we will have had a Saturday classic about George Wallace, who's. We have a similar story in that episode regarding his wife and a cancer diagnosis that she wasn't informed of. It is by coincidence that that is how this is lining up.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I also was thinking of. In the recent Vonnegut episode, we mentioned that when his sister was very ill in the hospital with cancer, they didn't wanna tell her that her husband had died.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right, right.

[Pasha Eaton]

Which, you know, she found out by accident and it was horrible. And I don't know. That's a hard choice to make. And I don't Wanna dog anybody as stealing someone's autonomy when I know in these cases, it's not like they're hiding something from someone to try to do something devious. They're trying not to hurt them worse. But I don't. I'm not equipped to make those decisions for other people. So I don't know. But I did think it would be a little more joyous to end this one by talking about what Wandagog throughout her life listed as her three passions. And they were obviously, unsurprisingly to anyone. Art.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yep.

[Pasha Eaton]

Sex. Yep. And growing things. Okay. She loved her garden.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I love that. Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

I find it funny that she thought the books that made her most famous were kind of like, I'm just doing this so I have money to make art. That kind of tickles me a little bit. I love it. Yeah. I kind of love her. She's wild. I can't imagine being as confident as her.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Whew.

[Pasha Eaton]

No, she just had no hesitation about how great she thought she was, which is wonderful, but not something I can identify with. So. Oh, Wanda, please give us strength in these times going forward. If this is your weekend coming up, I hope that you can invoke a little bit about of that Wandagog spirit and advocate for yourself and be confident in yourself and know that you are very good at some stuff in your life and that, you know, you should. You should be able to make your own decisions and follow. Follow your own conscience as to what is best. I also hope everything goes smoothly for you and that people are nice to you and that you are nice to people in return. We gotta take care of ourselves and each other. If you have medical things and you can get them screened, please get them screened. Do it for me. Tell your doctor Holly said so. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode and then on Monday with something brand new.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Holly Fry]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarki, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field. But. But tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers. Known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s, her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Hannah Smith]

After a crime. You read the headlines. But do you know the story?

[Pasha Eaton]

At the time that I called the police, he knew I had called them and left the house with a firearm and was texting me that he was.

[Hannah Smith]

Going to use it. I'm Hannah Smith. And I'm Pasha Eaton. We host the Knife, a podcast from the Exactly Right network that cuts to the heart of the story. Through in depth interviews and candid conversations, we'll bring you firsthand accounts of people, people living through the ripple effects of crime.

[Anna Sinfield]

Most of us don't know the legal.

[Hannah Smith]

Process and because they always tell you this word, closure, I really wish people.

[Holly Fry]

Would stop using that word because there is no such thing as closure.

[Hannah Smith]

These are the scars that are left behind. These are the voices you haven't heard. New episodes every Thursday. Listen to the knife on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Pasha Eaton]

Foreign I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Angeli Su, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core.

[Holly Fry]

There's so many stories out there and.

[Pasha Eaton]

If you can find a way to.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Curate and help the right person discover the right content.

[Pasha Eaton]

The term that we always hear from.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Our audience is that they feel seen.

[Pasha Eaton]

Listen to Good company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm ready to fight.

[Hannah Smith]

Oh, this is Fighting Words. Okay, I'll put the hammer back. Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a best.

[Pasha Eaton]

Selling author with a second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back. Part of the power of black queer.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Creativity is the fact that we got.

[Pasha Eaton]

Us, you know, we are the greatest culture makers in world history. Listen to Fighting words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.