Live From ICC: Kurt Vonnegut

Summary

Stuff You Missed in History Class: Live From ICC – Kurt Vonnegut

Release Date: March 26, 2025 | Hosts: Holly Fry & Tracy V. Wilson | Guest: Brian Young

---

Introduction and Context [02:08 – 07:43]

In this special live episode from the Indiana Comic Con (ICC), hosts Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson delve into the life and legacy of the iconic American writer, Kurt Vonnegut. Joined by longtime guest Brian Young, the discussion is enriched with personal anecdotes and deep insights into Vonnegut’s influence on literature and culture.

Holly Fry opens the episode with a warm welcome:

"Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry."

Brian Young shares his enthusiasm for the episode:

"I'm Brian Young. It is an honor to be here discussing someone as influential as Kurt Vonnegut."

The hosts recount their recent visit to the Kurt Vonnegut Museum in Indianapolis, highlighting the emotional impact it had on them. Holly poignantly shares:

"I cried three times. Doing this episode now is one of those times in life when I really wish we had Kurt."

Early Life and Family Tragedy [07:53 – 12:09]

Brian Young provides a comprehensive overview of Vonnegut’s early years, emphasizing the significant events that shaped his worldview. Born on November 11, 1922, in Indianapolis, Vonnegut faced financial hardship during the Great Depression, which led to his mother, Edith, tragically taking her own life on Mother's Day in 1944. This event profoundly influenced Vonnegut’s writing and personal life.

Brian reflects on the impact of his mother's death:

"This death really became a focal point for Vonnegut in his writing and in his personal interactions."

World War II and Dresden Bombing [12:09 – 23:13]

Vonnegut’s harrowing experiences as a prisoner of war during World War II are discussed in detail. Captured in Belgium and subjected to the Dresden bombing, Vonnegut witnessed unprecedented destruction and loss of life, experiences that later permeated his literary works, most notably Slaughterhouse-Five.

At [14:01], Brian narrates:

"Almost immediately, Vonnegut's division was subjected to the opening of Hitler's Operation Herbsnabel or Operation Autumn Mist...Vonnegut was taken as a prisoner of war."

Holly adds personal insights:

"Vonnegut was selected to be part of a work crew that was going to be sent to Dresden to clear the streets of rubble and do various factory work."

The duo highlights how these traumatic experiences influenced Vonnegut’s depiction of war and human suffering in his novels.

Post-War Life and Literary Beginnings [23:13 – 28:04]

After returning from the war, Vonnegut married his high school sweetheart, Jane, and began his journey into writing. Supported by the GI Bill, he enrolled at the University of Chicago but eventually shifted his focus entirely to fiction after facing challenges in his anthropology program.

Brian discusses Vonnegut’s early career:

"In 1950, Collier's Weekly published his short story 'Report on the Barnhouse Effect,' which marked his first significant publication."

Holly emphasizes the turning point:

"He had this moment where he marveled that in the course of just a couple months he had made more money as a writer than he would make in an entire year at GE."

Major Works and Literary Impact [28:04 – 39:00]

The conversation moves to Vonnegut’s seminal works, starting with his first novel, Player Piano (1952), which critiques a mechanized society. Despite being labeled as a science fiction writer, Vonnegut resisted this pigeonholing, striving for broader literary recognition.

Brian outlines Player Piano:

"The plot is set in a mechanized society where most human labor has been replaced by machines and examines what happens to people when they have no immediate use to society."

The discussion progresses to Slaughterhouse-Five (1969), Vonnegut’s most acclaimed work, which blends autobiography with fiction to explore the horrors of war and the illusion of free will.

Holly shares her admiration:

"Slaughterhouse Five was incredibly popular, but it was also incredibly personal for Vonnegut. It's very clearly Vonnegut working through his experiences in World War II."

Brian adds a notable quote from Vonnegut’s work:

"In chapter 17, Kilgore Trout notes... 'Both our mothers committed suicide. Lonnie's mother ate Drano and my mother ate sleeping pills, which wasn't nearly as horrible.' [12:09]"

Slaughterhouse-Five not only solidified Vonnegut’s place in American literature but also provided profound commentary on the absurdities of war and human suffering.

Personal Struggles and Later Works [39:00 – 49:23]

Vonnegut’s personal life, including his tumultuous marriage to Jane and his evolving literary career, is examined. The hosts discuss his continued literary output, including Breakfast of Champions (1973) and Cat’s Cradle (1963), each reflecting his unique blend of satire, dark humor, and social critique.

Holly reflects on Vonnegut’s teaching career:

"Vonnegut took a job teaching at the Iowa Writer's Workshop... he published Slaughterhouse-Five in 1969, elevating his status to an international literary figure."

The hosts also touch upon Vonnegut’s later works and his enduring legacy, noting his persistent dark humor and political activism until his passing in 2007.

Brian cites Vonnegut’s enduring philosophy:

"If you were to bother to read my books, to behave as educated persons would, you'd learn that they're not sexy and do not argue in favor of wildness of any kind. They beg that people be kinder and more responsible than they often are."

Legacy and Conclusion [49:23 – 50:37]

As the episode draws to a close, Holly and Brian express their deep appreciation for Vonnegut’s contributions to literature and his enduring influence on readers worldwide.

Holly shares an emotional farewell:

"And that is Kurt Vonnegut, who we both clearly love. Yeah, and I still get choked up over. Thank you once again to Brian Young for doing that episode with me. It was really, really lovely to have him by my side for it."

Final Remarks [50:37 – End]

The hosts wrap up the episode, inviting listeners to engage with future content and share their thoughts.

Holly concludes:

"If you would like to write to the show, though, in the meantime, so you could potentially be a future listener mail, you can do [e-mail]."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Holly Fry [04:12]:

  "It's not anything big. But if you are a parent or a teacher, you may want to preview and make sure, you know, you're cool with it or that you have a plan in place to address that language with your kids."

• Brian Young [07:53]:

  "Vonnegut was born on November 11, 1922, in Indianapolis, Indiana... His mother, Edith, who'd been a high society debutante from a very wealthy family, was deeply dismayed by their loss of financial stability."

• Holly Fry [09:21]:

  "Kurt Jr. wrote for the high school newspaper and credited that time as teaching him the basics of journalism and conveying stories quickly and clearly."

• Brian Young [14:01]:

  "Almost immediately, Vonnegut's division was subjected to the opening of Hitler's Operation Herbsnabel or Operation Autumn Mist."

• Holly Fry [28:04]:

  "He had this moment where he marveled that in the course of just a couple months he had made more money as a writer than he would make in an entire year at GE."

• Brian Young [36:52]:

  "1963 saw the release of Cat's Cradle, inspired by the lab at GE where scientists had been allowed to experiment for the sake of pure science."

• Holly Fry [37:30]:

  "And it's spoken in the book to a pair of infants by the titular character, Mr. Rosewater. And he says, 'hello, babies, welcome to Earth...you gotta be kind.'"

• Brian Young [46:52]:

  "In his 2005 book A Man Without a Country, Vonnegut made the rounds of TV talk shows, talking about his disdain for the war in the Middle East."

• Holly Fry [49:23]:

  "If you were to bother to read my books, to behave as educated persons would, you'd learn that they're not sexy and do not argue in favor of wildness of any kind. They beg that people be kinder and more responsible than they often are."

---

Conclusion

This live episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class provides an intimate and comprehensive exploration of Kurt Vonnegut’s life, from his early struggles and wartime experiences to his rise as a literary giant. Through heartfelt discussions and shared memories, Holly Fry and Brian Young pay homage to Vonnegut’s enduring legacy, making it an enriching listen for both longtime fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Kurt Vonnegut]

As a renter, do you ever feel like you're just throwing money away? Think you'll never be able to save enough to buy your own home? Then check out Rent Rewards from Rocket Mortgage. They're helping you put your monthly rent payments towards homeownership. Now, for the first time, you can save up to $5,000 off the cost of your home just by paying rent only at Rocket Mortgage. Learn more today at 804Rocket or visit Rocket.comRocket Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in all 50 states nmlsconsumeraccess.org Number 3030 Breaking News.

[Holly Fry]

T Mobile Network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from big cities to your hometown on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card allowed 15 days qualified unlocked device credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption Required card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Microsoft Representative]

AI is redefining what's possible for your business. With more unique challenges to solve and higher stakes than ever, Microsoft helps you stay ahead. Our trustworthy AI tools and guidance can empower leaders like you to drive greater impact. And with Azure's simplified platform management, we're helping businesses go further, faster, unlocking up to 150% improved output. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers Are you hungry?

[Colleen Witt]

Colleen Witt here, and Eating While Broke is back for Season four every Thursday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. This season we've got a legendary lineup serving up broke dishes and even better stories. On the menu we have Tony Baker, Nick Cannon, Melissa Ford, October London, and Terry Harper Howey. Turning Big Macs into big moves. Catch Eating While Broke Every Thursday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. IHeartRadio app Apple podcasts Wherever you get your favorite shows, come hungry for Season four.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

And I'm Tracy V. Wilson Tracey, we.

[Holly Fry]

Have an episode that you're not in.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

I know it was you asked me about whether it would be okay to do this and I was like absolutely. Even before you told me that the subject was Kurt Vonnegut. And when you said that, I was like, I already Was on board with the idea of, you know, a live episode with a. With a guest host, because I will not be at the event. But now that you've said Kurt Vonnegut and that Brian Young is gonna be the co host, I am excited about.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Both Brian and I were panelists and guests at Indiana Comic Con, and we talked a lot about Star wars things while we were there. But it occurred to us, I think it was actually Brian's idea, that Kurt Vonnegut is from Indianapolis. And this kind of makes a lot of sense. Right. So I was like, great, let's do that. And we did. We also went to the Kurt Vonnegut Museum that morning before the show, which was very moving and wonderful. We'll talk about all that on behind the Scenes. Listen, spoiler alert. I cried three times. Doing this episode now is one of those times in life when I really wish we had Kurt. And I'm also really glad he's gone because I don't think he would enjoy the world we're living in right now. But I'm really grateful to Brian Young, who has been on our show before. He was our first guest in a live show, so this kind of felt very natural. And thank you to Indiana Comic Con as well for having us. There is also a little heads up. What I. I didn't even think of as a swear because my family didn't growing up, but Tracy flagged it as a swear because her family would have. Which was one of those great moments of like, oh, how different worlds exist in the everyday. Yeah, it's pretty minor.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

If you are a Kurt Vonnegut fan, you probably already know what the swear is.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, it's from one of his famous quotes. It invokes a deity. That's all. It's not anything. Not anything big. But if you are a parent or a teacher, you may want to preview and make sure, you know, you're cool with it or that you have a plan in place to address that language with your kids.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

Yeah. And we'll also say that Kurt Vonnegut lived through some pretty tough stuff. There are some real difficult moments in this episode.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, he. For all his wit, that was clearly part of how he coped with a lot of rough times in his life. And be aware, there is discussion not only of some pretty horrific wartime events, but there are also multiple discussions of suicide in it, as well as just incredible, horrible loss. So just be aware of all of that going in worthwhile, in my opinion, to talk about Kurt Vonnegut, who I will wax Rhapsodic about on Friday. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry.

[Brian Young]

And I'm not Tracy V. Wilson. I'm Brian Young.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, Brian is a longtime friend of the show. He was on our first live show ever. Ever, talking about his book about presidential assassination for children, which is pretty spectacular, and I recommend you check it out if it's still available.

[Brian Young]

It is. You can still get a children's illustrated history of presidential assassination online or signed copies on my [e-mail].

[Holly Fry]

Perfect.

[Brian Young]

Yeah, perfect.

[Holly Fry]

It is charming as I'll get out. So today, because we're here in Indiana and in Indianapolis specifically, Brian actually mentioned the idea of, like, this is really the time to talk about Kurt Vonnegut, who is someone both he and I love and have bonded over over the years. And he is, of course, you know, the son of the city, as it were. We both grew up with him. I mean, I think often when you hear people talk about Vonnegut and where they discovered him, it's usually in their teenage years when they encounter an author, either because it's recommended in school or because they just stumble on it and it's finally an adult in the literature space who is not feeding them bull in any way. It's very straightforward and it's is in some ways very subversive in a way that's very appealing to teenagers. And then if you're like me, you never mature and you stick with it the whole time. Yeah.

[Brian Young]

Vonnegut was definitely someone I encountered as a teenager and really latched onto. I found him in a banned books club in high school, which seems so, like, you wouldn't be able to get away with that today the way you could, you know, 25. More than 25 years ago.

[Holly Fry]

Sort of quaint now.

[Brian Young]

And I've just always been in. In love with his work. And for a long time I was reading his entire library, like, every year. And now revisiting it always feels like revisiting an old friend. Yeah. And I come to a lot of conventions here in Indiana, Indianapolis specifically, and I always take that visit to the Vonnegut Museum, which is within walking distance. And in fact, Holly and I went this morning and took a visit there and spent way too much in the museum.

[Holly Fry]

An unconscionable amount of money in the museum shop. Just.

[Brian Young]

Yeah, I love. My favorite are the Kilgore Trout covers that they have on the postcards. They're so lurid and ridiculous. I love them.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. So without further ado, we are going to talk about this amazing writer who we all love and his life story. So, Brian, you want to kick it off?

[Brian Young]

I would love to. So Vonnegut was born on November 11, 1922, in Indianapolis, Indiana. His father, Kurt Sr. Was an architect, and the German American Vonnegut family had been prosperous. Their fortunes shifted, though, when Kurt Jr. Was a teenager. As the Great Depression played out, architecture projects were few and far between, and the other family businesses faltered. The Vonneguts had sent Kurt Jr's older brother and sister to private schools, but for him, public school was the only option. His mother, Edith, who'd been a high society debutante from a very wealthy family, was deeply dismayed by their loss of financial stability. So she tried to supplement the family's income by writing short stories, mostly romances. Sadly, that effort was for naught as no one was willing to buy them.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, Kurt, Kurt Jr. That is, wrote for the high school newspaper. And he actually credited that time as really teaching him the basics of journalism and how to convey stories and ideas very quickly and succinctly and incredibly clearly, ironically, things that he would be kind of dinged for later in life as not being florid enough as a writer. But that's why I think young audiences really gravitate to him. After high school, Vonnegut enrolled at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York. In what may seem like a bit of a surprising move, he majored in biochemistry. That was a bad choice for him. He did not excel.

[Brian Young]

In 1943, Vonnegut left school to enlist in the Army. He'd been struggling at school. His journalism efforts at the Cornell sun were good, though they often caused controversy. He ran criticism of the rotc, of which he was a member, which got him kicked out. He also wrote articles suggesting that the school paper, in publishing patriotic writing, was sharing propaganda. Then when he started school in his junior year as the editor of the sun, he ran a headline welcoming the classes of 44, 2/3, 45, and a fourth, or whatever. The US had joined the war in December 1941, following the bombing of Pearl Harbor. And Vonnegut was making a nod to the fact that many of his classmates were likely to be called into service and die before finishing their college careers. He got pneumonia in late 1942, and that gave him a good excuse to leave school. And so he did. And then he enlisted and he went.

[Holly Fry]

To Fort Bragg for training. He brought his typewriter with him to basic training, but it was stolen. He was really good with weapons, so he got some artillery training. But his aptitude tests got him more attention because he was clearly very smart. And he was selected to enter a mechanical engineering program that was supposed to end up with him getting a degree and an officer's commission. His grades in this program were kind of mixed, but ultimately that did not matter because the program was shut down before he could finish.

[Brian Young]

Kurt Jr. Decided to visit his parents in their new place for Mother's Day 1944. And it was a trip that would really change the family forever. Kurt Sr. Thanks to the war, had a steady income again, working in materials at various bases and facilities. And he designed a new home for himself in Edith and this home in a quaint development in Marion County, Indiana. It was contemporary and smaller than their previous home. But Edith did not Love felt small, and not just in size. She was keenly aware of how her fortunes in life had changed, going from an aristocratic IT girl in Europe to an unknown Midwestern housewife. And she was also very unhappy about her son's choice to join the service.

[Holly Fry]

On Mother's Day morning. During that visit, Edith was found dead by Kurt's sister Alice, who then went and got Kurt. Edith had taken an overdose of sleeping pills. This was not recorded officially as an intentional act. The coroner wrote it up as an accident to avoid the stigma that naturally goes along with death by suicide. But the family knew, although there have, over the years, been some debates over whether or not they were going to acknowledge this or not, and Kurt Sr. Actually asked the paper not to run his wife's obituary.

[Brian Young]

This death really became a focal point for Vonnegut in his writing and in his personal interactions. Biographer Charles J. Shields noted of the writer. For the rest of his life, he directed people's attention to the manner of his mother's death as if it were something they should know about him. In Vonnegut's books, it's fairly easy to trace a line from his own family tragedy to the way he writes about mothers. Mothers occupy a strange narrative space for him and tend to always be grappling with mental health issues. He makes what certainly seems to be a reference to his own mother's death in his 1973 book, Breakfast of Champions. This book, which will talk more about in a moment, is told from the point of view of Kilgore Trout, who's often described as being Vonnegut's fictional alter ego. And in chapter 17, Kilgore Trout notes of another character. Listen, Bunny's mother and my mother were different sorts of human beings, but they were both beautiful in exotic ways and they both boiled over with chaotic talk about love and peace and wars and evil and desperation, of better days coming by and by, of worse days coming by and by. And both our mothers committed suicide. Lonnie's mother ate Drano and my mother ate sleeping pills, which wasn't nearly as horrible.

[Holly Fry]

Vonnegut actually had very little time to mourn his mother. The beaches of Normandy were stormed just a few weeks after her death, and Kurt was called to active duty shortly thereafter. Before he left, he proposed to his high school sweetheart, who did not really give him any kind of reply. That was Jane. And then that autumn, he was on a ship headed to Belgium. After two weeks in Cheltenham, England, he and his division, the 106th, traveled across the English Channel by boat to Le Havre and then by truck into Belgium, where they were brought to replace the second Division that had been holding the line against Germany's push.

[Brian Young]

Almost immediately, Vonnegut's division was subjected to the opening of Hitler's Operation Herbsnabel or Operation Autumn Mist, which targeted the Allies in Luxembourg and eastern Belgium. There was a near constant barrage of fire. It was during this time that Vonnegut realized, to his disillusionment, that the scouting reconnaissance squad he was a part of was really just being thrown into areas that might contain mines or hidden Nazi strongholds. So they were totally expendable. During one of these scouting missions on December 19, he was taken as a prisoner of war. He and his fellow prisoners walked for two days under German guards until they were loaded into a boxcar, which then traveled for another two days. It was one of several bockscars carrying.

[Holly Fry]

POWs as they moved deeper and deeper into German territory. The bockscar and the others that it was connected to were caught up in Allied bombing. The first instance of this was at Limburg, which was heavily bombed by the Allies. Right after the bockscar that Vonnegut and his fellow soldiers were in was disconnected from its engine and left behind. There were scores of fatalities among the POWs as some fled the cars only to run right into the Allies line of fire. Over the next several days, Vonnegut's group was moved along until finally reaching Muhlberg, where they were processed.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

All you renters out there, here's something from Rocket Mortgage you're going to want to hear now. Anyone who's ever rented before knows that feeling you get every month. Your hard earned cash gone. It's like throwing money away. Even more frustrating is the knowledge that every dollar you spent on rent is a dollar you could have put toward your future. And it can make it feel like you'll never be able to save enough to afford a home of your own. And that's what makes what Rocket Mortgage is doing here so special. They're helping you put your monthly rent payments towards home ownership. It's called Rent Rewards. And for the first time, you can save up to $5,000 of your home just by paying rent. Only at Rocket Mortgage. If this sounds like something that could make a difference in your life, call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today to learn more about rent rewards. That's 804Rocket or Rocket.com Rocket Mortgage LLC. Licensed in all 50 states. Nmlsconsumeraccess.org 3030.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Is this a good time? It's me, Dylan Mulvaney, and my dear friend Joe Locke from Heartstopper. And Agatha all along is my very first guest on my brand new podcast, the Dylan Hour. It's musical mayhem and it is going to be so much fun.

[Holly Fry]

I like a man.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

You like a man. What do I like, Joe?

[Holly Fry]

You like a man too.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

We often. There's quite similar. There's some cross pollination happening in here.

[Holly Fry]

Not like. No. Have we? No.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

No, not yet. Never say never. I cannot wait for all you girls, gays and they's to join me on this extremely special pink confection of a podcast. There is so much darkness in this world and what I think we could all use more of is a little joy. Listen to the Dylan hour on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Love ya.

[Jorge Cham]

Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you?

[Microsoft Representative]

Why is my cat not here and.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

I go in and she's eating my lunch?

[Jorge Cham]

Or if hypnotism is real, you will.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Use the suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control.

[Jorge Cham]

But what's inside a black hole?

[Holly Fry]

Black holes could be a consequence of.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

The way that we understand the universe.

[Jorge Cham]

Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart original podcast Science Stuff. Join me, Jorge Cham, as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to about animals, space, our brains and our bodies. Questions like can you survive being cryogenically frozen?

[Holly Fry]

This is experimental. This may never work for you.

[Jorge Cham]

What's a quantum computer?

[Holly Fry]

It's not just a faster computer. It performs in a fundamentally different way.

[Jorge Cham]

Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming?

[Holly Fry]

It's not really a safety issue, it's more of a comfort issue.

[Jorge Cham]

We'll talk to experts, break it down and give you Easy to understand explanations to fascinating scientific questions. So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to science stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Harvey Guillen]

Sonoro and iHeart's Mike Kultura podcast Network present the Setup, a new romantic comedy podcast starring Harvey Guillen and Christian Navarro. The setup follows a lonely museum curator searching for love. But when the perfect man walks into his life.

[Holly Fry]

Well, I guess I'm saying I like you, you like me.

[Harvey Guillen]

He actually is too good to be true.

[Holly Fry]

This is a con. I'm conning you to get the Delano painting.

[Harvey Guillen]

We could do this together to pull off this heist. They'll have to get close and jump into the deep end together.

[Holly Fry]

That's a huge leap, Fernando, don't you think? After you, Chulito.

[Harvey Guillen]

But love is the biggest risk they'll ever take.

[Colleen Witt]

Fernando's never going to love you as much as he loves this job.

[Holly Fry]

That painting is ours.

[Harvey Guillen]

Listen to the setup as part of the Mike Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brian Young]

The entire experience was horror after horror. Many of the men were ill by this time, suffering from dysentery, malnourishment and frostbite. They don't witness more death in just a few days than they can really even fathom. And many were near death when they arrived at Muhlberg. But when Vonnegut was given a postcard to send home, he told his family this life is not bad at all, and asked them to send cigarettes. Meanwhile, his family had been told Kurt Jr. Was MIA and they presumed the worst.

[Holly Fry]

Vonnegut was selected to be part of a work crew that was going to be sent to Dresden to clear the streets of rubble and do various factory work. Vonnegut was also given the job of translator and foreman in this group as he spoke enough German to do so. These men were housed in a converted slaughterhouse, and at one point, Vonnegut was actually court martialed by the Germans for insulting a Nazi officer after he had abused a sick pow. Vonnegut was beaten and his foreman role was immediately taken away.

[Brian Young]

If you read his letter home that he wrote, he talked about, he was overheard telling the foreman what he'd like to do to him in German.

[Holly Fry]

Yes.

[Brian Young]

Yeah, it was. It was not pleasant. No. So on the night of February 13, 1945, the Allies began their bombing of Dresden. The POWs housed in the slaughterhouse were moved into a basement as the bombing destroyed the city. In the morning. The 150 men that Vonnegut was a part of were in an odd situation. They'd survived, but much of Dresden had not. And tens of thousands of casualties littered the streets of the destroyed city. Vonnegut's work crew was tasked with clearing the dead and cleaning up the city, salvaging what they could. It was made clear that if anyone took anything for themselves, they would be shot. So Vonnegut and his fellow POWs had to dig graves and in some cases, stack bodies and set them ablaze.

[Holly Fry]

As the war came to a close in the spring, Vonnegut and his fellow POWs were eventually abandoned by their German captors and left to sort of fend for themselves. Kurt and several others were eventually traded for Soviet prisoners that the Allies had captured. And Vonnegut, at this point, like all of the men who had been captured, was in really rough shape. Not just mentally, but also he was physically a mess. He was malnourished and he was sickly. But he did make it home. He got through the forms that established as no longer missing in action, which was apparently a little bit of an ordeal. And he was promoted to corporal. He also received a Purple Heart, which sort of, funnily enough, was for frostbite. And it's just funny, given all of the things that he lived through, that that's what he got his Purple Heart for.

[Brian Young]

You can go see it at the museum. They have it on display at the museum.

[Holly Fry]

He had started writing to his high school sweetheart, Jane again as soon as he was back in the U.S. jane had dated other people when the two of them went to different colleges, and she was still sort, playing the field. In his letters. Kurt was so cautious to not assume that Jane was unmarried or single or available to him. But she was. And they met up in Washington, where Jane was living. And then they both, just by happenstance of scheduling, traveled to Indianapolis at the same time. And once they were back home, Kurt proposed again. And at that point, the two were engaged.

[Brian Young]

Kurt always claimed that his war experience hadn't been that bad, and he was fine, that family and friends shouldn't get emotional over it. But it did eventually come out in his writing. Of course, in interviews, his daughter said that they never knew what he'd been through until they read Slaughterhouse Five. He was only 22 when he returned home.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, that's a lot to process if you think about it, right? Your prefrontal cortex is not finished forming when you're in your early 20s. And he had gone through an extraordinary amount of trauma but then, in the post war 1940s, Vonnegut tried to move on. He focused on his future with Jane. They were married on September 14, 1945, and from the moment they became a married couple, Jane really became the driving force of his writing career. She was older than he was by a couple of years, and she had finished college and she had a job in the Office of Strategic Services before she accepted Kurt's proposal. Because women generally resigned from their work once they were getting married. And that's what she did. Kurt was not always the warmest spouse, but Jane supported him and she encouraged him to read more, starting with the Brothers Karamazov, which she presented him during their honeymoon. The two of them discussed literature, and that was a big part of their relationship. And while Kurt finished out his time in the service, she also urged him to write. And he would send all of the work that he did back home and let her edit it. And he was very deferential to her. He was like, do whatever you want with it. You know better than I do.

[Brian Young]

The two of them also applied to the University of Chicago, and both were accepted. Kurt's school was paid for by the GI Bill, and he was already writing short stories with Jane's encouragement. But he also signed on for an anthropology program that would take him right through to a master's degree. The following year, Jane got pregnant, dropped out of her fellowship program. Vonnegut dropped out of his anthropology program that summer after his thesis proposal was rejected. And their son mark arrived on May 11, 1947. His thesis proposal was really fascinating, and I'm still mad that they rejected it. His thesis for anthropology was that he thought that the shapes of stories were as equally interesting as the shards of pottery of any civilization. And he created a method where you could chart the shape of culture's stories. And I teach a lot of writing classes and I use that a lot to help people visualize how stories work. But he didn't end up getting his degree until they accepted Cat's Cradle as his thesis years, years and years later.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, after he left his program, he wrote for the Chicago City News Bureau, which was something that he had actually started while he was still in school. And he started to think finally about getting his fiction published and really focus on it. Money was really tight, though, and soon it became very apparent that he was going to need something dependable to bring in money to support Jane and their soon to be born son. So he turned to his brother Bernard, who was extremely famous in science circles. He was an accomplished Atmospheric and environmental scientist and he worked with General Electricity. Bernard was able to get Curt a job as a publicist with the company. There's actually a pretty interesting story here where during the interview, the person that Kurt was interviewing with read on his application and his resume that he had been in Dresden during the bombing. And the man just looked up and said, I'm sorry, I was one of those bombers. And he got the job on the spot. I'm a little choked up. That job, though he did not like it. He had a moral issue with PR work, which I love, because he just thought it was inherently deceitful and that was not something he really liked. He also thought that the field of science, which he had been excited to write about, the things that people were doing at GE because a lot of scientists got to just kind of experiment, was not being handled in a responsible way. And it wasn't necessarily for the betterment of mankind.

[Brian Young]

And it's that discomfort with pr, with ge, that really led him to pursue fiction writing as his full time job. He started producing short stories and submitting them to publishers, but there were a lot of rejections. Still, Jane was his champion the whole time and even wrote to publishers herself to promote his work. The late 1940s were very lean times. And then finally, not long after the birth of their daughter Edith, in 1950, Collier's Weekly published his short story report on the Barnhouse Effect, about a college professor who develops a sort of telekinesis and is used by the government as a weapon. The story is told by one of Professor Barnhouse's former students. Colliers and other magazines needed short stories. They were very popular with readers in the era before television became ubiquitous. So he soon had a lot more work and started to make good money. He'd promised himself that after he sold five stories, he'd quit his GE job, which he did. He and Jane then moved to cape Cod in 1951.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, he had this moment where he marveled that in the course of just a couple months he had made more money as a writer than he would make in an entire year at ge. So he felt really bolstered by his decision.

[Brian Young]

There was this interesting moment too where he also felt some shame because some of those were like, he was writing stuff for like Ladies Home Journal. Like, I know the one story that sort of based in his life Long Walk to Forever, which was terrific. It's a great story. And it's about that. That time he went back home to sort of talk to Jane before he shipped off to the war. He felt a lot of shame about that story and it being like that. He'd lived a moment in his life that would be in a ladies glossy magazine, but it paid him well.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. And Vonnegut continued to churn out fiction and make really good money for the first time in his life. He published his first novel, player piano, in 1952. And this was a book that was informed by his time at ge. It was something he could not have written and published while he was there or he would have gotten fired. The plot is set in a mechanized society where most human labor has been replaced by machines and society has split into the out of work laboring class and the overseeing engineers. And it examines, among other things, what happens to people when they have no immediate use and no contribution of value to society. He got labeled because of this as a science fiction writer, but that was not a pigeonhole. He especially liked just because while he had nothing against science fiction, he knew that other people did not take it seriously as literature.

[Brian Young]

So There was a seven year gap between player piano and Vonnegut's second novel, The Sirens of Titan, which came out in 1959. And during those seven years, there were a lot of changes in Vonnegut's life. First, his daughter Nanette was born in 1954. Then his father, Kurt Sr. Died in the autumn of 1957. And then in 1958, Kurt's sister Alice, to whom he was extremely close, was diagnosed with late stage breast cancer. While she was in the hospital, her husband Jim died suddenly in a train accident. And while the family tried to shield Alice from this news, she found out. Though there's a couple of different accounts about how she found out. One is that a nurse gave her a newspaper which mentioned the accident. And then the other is that the family, a family friend accidentally blurted it out. But regardless, Alice was heartbroken and she died two days after learning about her husband's death. Kurt later said of his sister, quote, she was the person I'd always written for. She was the secret of whatever artistic unity I'd ever achieved. He'd promised Alice that he would keep her four sons together. And he moved all of them into the house with him, Jane and their three kids. It became a wild and boisterous home. And the kids, as adults, would note that Kurt was often grouchy with them and a little scary at times, but he could be fun, but he was moody. Jane was the one who kept it all together and served as a primary caretaker for their huge crew.

[Holly Fry]

7Kids is a lot of kids. Sirens of Titan, which examines space and time travel, free will, and what it means to try to outrun your destiny, was really pretty well received by critics. It was a Hugo award finalist for 1960. His follow up in 1961 was his book Mother Night. And this is a step away from science fiction, which he was becoming known for, so it's a little risky. This is a fictional memoir written by a Nazi propagandist while he awaits his trial for war crimes. There's a spy twist in the work. I almost don't want to say more because it's a really fun narrative as it unfolds. And this story would eventually be adapted into stage and screen like a lot of Vonnegut's subsequent work, including the 1996 film starring Nick Nolte, which Vonniegot has a really beautiful cameo in.

[Brian Young]

It's really good. See it.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

You know, buying a home used to be a huge headache. You had to go to a bunch of different places for listings, for pre approval, for financing. It was exhausting and confusing. But now Rocket is putting everything you need in one place. Rocket.com, a single seamless homeownership platform to help you find, buy, sell, finance, even refinance your home. You'll find smarter tools, personalized dashboards, real time insights and more. All the things you need to make the kind of informed decisions that can make a big difference for you and your family. So whether you're buying your first home, managing homeownership tasks, or unlocking equity for future opportunities, there's only one destination that has everything you need. All under one roof. Every home at one address. Rocket.com the new home for all things homeownership, whether you're buying or refinancing. You have to just give a look because it's all there. Rocket. Own the dream.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Is this a good time? It's me, Dylan Mulvaney and my dear friend Joe Locke from Heartstopper. And Agatha all along is my very first guest on my brand new podcast, the Dylan Hour. It's musical mayhem and it is going to be so much fun.

[Holly Fry]

I like a man.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

You like a man. What do I like?

[Holly Fry]

Joe, you like a man too.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

We often. There's quite similar. There's some cross pollination happening in here.

[Holly Fry]

Not like.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

No.

[Holly Fry]

Have we. No.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

No, not yet. Never say never. I cannot wait for all you girls, gays and they to join me on this extremely special pink confection of a podcast. There is so much darkness in this world and what I think we could all use more of is a little joy. Listen to the Dylan hour on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Love ya.

[Jorge Cham]

Have you ever wondered, if your pet is lying to you, why is my.

[Microsoft Representative]

Cat not here and I go in.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

And she's eating my lunch?

[Jorge Cham]

Or if hypnotism is real, you will.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Use the suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control.

[Jorge Cham]

What's inside a black hole?

[Holly Fry]

Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.

[Jorge Cham]

Well, we have answers for you in the new I Heart original podcast Science Stuff. Join me Jorge Cham as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to about animals, space, our brains and our bodies questions can you survive being cryogenically frozen?

[Holly Fry]

This is experimental. This may never work for you.

[Jorge Cham]

What's a quantum computer?

[Holly Fry]

It's not just a faster computer, it performs in a fundamentally different way.

[Jorge Cham]

Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming?

[Brian Young]

It's not really a safety issue, it's.

[Holly Fry]

More of a comfort issue.

[Jorge Cham]

We'll talk to experts, break it down, and give you easy to understand explanations to fascinating scientific questions. So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to science stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Harvey Guillen]

Sonoro and iHeart's Mikeultura Podcast Network present the Setup, a new romantic comedy podcast starring Harvey Guillen and Christian Navarro. The Setup follows a lonely museum curator searching for love. But when the perfect man walks into his life.

[Holly Fry]

Well, I guess I'm saying I like you, you like me.

[Harvey Guillen]

He actually is too good to be true.

[Holly Fry]

This is a con. I'm conning you to get the Delato painting. We could do this together.

[Harvey Guillen]

To pull off this heist, they'll have to get close and jump into the deep end together.

[Holly Fry]

That's a huge leap, Fernando, don't you think? After you, Chulito.

[Harvey Guillen]

But love is the biggest risk risk they'll ever take.

[Colleen Witt]

Fernando's never going to love you as.

[Holly Fry]

Much as he loves this jobito. That painting is ours.

[Harvey Guillen]

Listen to the setup as part of the Mike Cultura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brian Young]

1963 saw the release of Cat's Cradle, and this was inspired by the lab at GE where scientists had been allowed to experiment for the sake of pure science. There's a frequently told story that one of the scientists there suggested the idea of water that solidified at Room temperature to author H.G. wells when he visited the lab. But Wells never used the idea. Vonnegut decided it was okay to use it himself. He uses as the concept of ICE 9 to examine the ways that science can be weaponized. He also introduced a fictional religion in the book called Bokanonism, which involved a number of absurd practices. Some of the vocabulary of this faux religion would also be used a decade later to name a collection of short story writings by Vonnegut called Wampeter's Foma and Grand Falloons.

[Holly Fry]

The novel God bless you, Mr. Rosewater was released in 1965, and it's in this book that Vonnegut introduces what has become known as his fictional alter ego, Kilgore Trout. The name was a play on the name of the science fiction writer Theodore Sturgeon. Trout appeared in numerous books after this time. And while he changed personality a little bit and details from book to book, he was always a writer. And in Rosewater, Vonnegut wrote one of his often invoked quotes, which is spoken. This also gets me choked up. I'm very weepy about Ker Vonnegut this week, you guys. This also gets me choked up.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

And.

[Holly Fry]

And it's spoken in the book to a pair of infants by the titular character, Mr. Rosewater. And he says, hello, babies, welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded on the outside. Babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies, goddammit, you gotta be kind.

[Brian Young]

After Rosewater Vonnegut, who needed more money than his books were making, he took a job teaching at the Iowa Writer's Workshop. This turned out to be a pivotal move in his life. For the first time, he wasn't a solitary writer typing out his books at home. He was in the middle of a community of fellow writers, many of whom would become lifelong friends. He published a collection of short fiction titled welcome to the Monkey House in 1968. But the project he'd been working on since his return from the war, finally, after many, many, many, many drafts, was published as a result of the work he did on it while in Iowa.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, the outcome of Iowa is also one of those kind of funny things in his life because he didn't want to take a teaching job. He thought that was like admitting defeat as a writer. But it turned out to be really, really good for him. And that's why in 1969, he published Slaughterhouse Five, or the Children's Crusade, which took his already impressive status in contemporary fiction to an absolutely new level. It was a New York Times bestseller. It won a National Book Award for fiction, and it also made Kurt Vonnegut very famous quickly.

[Brian Young]

Slaughterhouse 5 was incredibly popular, but it was also incredibly personal for Vonnegut. It's very clearly Vonnegut working through his experiences in World War II. The narrative jumps around through time and involves an alien race from the planet Tralmador. But in its heart, it's Vonnegut sharing his experiences in Dresden. Even his main character, Billy Pilgrim, who he describes as unstuck in time, is born the same year as Vonnegut, 1922. He's also captured by the Germans in World War II and survives the bombing of Dresden. Vonnegut's nun. Nonlinear storytelling, which has Billy Pilgrim jumping from moment to moment in his life, gives away all the details that would normally be in a novel's final chapters. In the early pages of the book, the narrative's message is anti war, and many of the characters are inspired by people he knew during his time in service. All of the things he could never talk about with family and friends, including the trauma he felt, came out in the book. He even has an appearance in the book. He's in the boxcars and is watching some of these horrors play out. And it's interesting reading the book and seeing him watch all of these horrors play out in third person, Almost like he's disassociating out of it. While Vonnegut always insisted he was fine as these events were playing out in his actual life, Billy's story shows how deeply they haunted him decades later.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, it's interesting. There's a moment in the documentary about him where he talks about trying to share some of it, like he had written some of it in his letter home. But he tries to tell his family about one of the things that happened, and he couldn't finish, and he was like, I never talked about it again. Slaughterhouse 5, of course, made Vonnegut a critical and media darling and a household name. There's a great Life magazine feature on him and his family. It's this full spread with pictures, and it includes photos of his family and their home. And they're beautiful pictures. Some of them are really, really fun. But all of that fame, ultimately, as fame often does, led to his life blowing up. He moved from Cape Cod to New York. The family stayed in Cape Cod, and he and Jane split up. They had some fundamental differences, including religion, that had come into sharp focus once their kids were grown. And moved out. But he had also met someone else. On the heels of his critically acclaimed novel, Vonnegut wrote a play titled Happy Birthday, Wanda June, and it was released in 1971. And while that play was in production, photographer Jill Krements was assigned to take pictures of him.

[Brian Young]

The end of Jane and Kurt's marriage was somewhat unusual. They stayed in touch. Jane remained, according to her children, very proud of Kurt's accomplishments and accolades. While she could have easily become bitter over how things played out, she seemed to accept it, move on, eventually remarrying.

[Holly Fry]

Slaughterhouse 5 was optioned for film rights very soon after its release because of its popularity, and the movie version came out in 1972, starring Michael Sacks as Billy Pilgrim. The follow up to Slaughterhouse Five was greeted with less enthusiasm. His 1973 book, Breakfast of Champions or Goodbye Blue Monday, also has roots in Vonnegut's real life, as he examined what it is to be famous as a writer in a world where cultural norms and values are rapidly shifting. Kilgore Trout is a main character in this book, and it also echoes some of his earlier themes of free will and social inequity. Vonnegut also refers to himself in this book as a writer narrator, sharing with the reader why he's doing some of the things he's doing with the story. This was, despite its critical reception, actually a bestseller, because at this point the public adored Vonnegut. But some of the critics were really, really harsh in the way they received it.

[Brian Young]

Slapstick, or Lonesome no More was released in 1976. He dedicated the book to Laurel and Hardy, two men that he felt had taught him that laughter was okay even when things were tough. Though Slaughterhouse 5 is very much considered to be his loose biography, he states in the opening of Slapstick, this is the closest I'll ever come to writing an autobiography. It's an autobiography of his main character, Dr. Wilbur Daffodil. 11. Swain. Swain has a sister, Eliza, and the siblings have been cut off from the world because they are, according to Swain's account, hideously ugly. But they're also uniquely powerful as a duo, and they wish to help people form extended families to eradicate loneliness. Critics didn't like it, and to be honest, Vonnegut didn't either. In his book Palm Sunday, he sort of gives. Assigns letter grades to all of his books, and this is the only one he gave an F to. And the movie adaptation that Jerry Lewis made is probably one of the worst movies I've ever seen in my Entire life if you can find it. I had to buy a bootleg from Australia and then, and then make my computer think it was Australian to watch was a big rigmarole because I couldn't find it in the US at all.

[Holly Fry]

That's the universe telling you not to watch that film.

[Brian Young]

That's actually. You are not the first person who told me that. But if you can find it, watch it because it is a horror show.

[Holly Fry]

Watch it because it's so bad. In 1979, Kurt married Jill and they adopted an infant daughter named Lily. And that pair stayed together for the rest of Kurt Vonnegut's life. Although like any long term marriage, it was not always smooth. That same year, Kurt published the book Jailbird, a memoir of a man recently released from prison. It did better than slapstick did with critics, but it also marked the start of a run of books that were seen as kind of okay rather than brilliant in most critics eyes. So this includes that group of books that have dead eye Dick in 1982, Galapagos in 1985, and another fictional autobiography in 1987 titled Bluebeard.

[Brian Young]

In his 1990 book, Hocus Pocus, it offered up the idea of a. A book crafted from scraps of paper that, that had been found assembled according to the numbers written on them by their author. Vonnegut said that he wanted to prove that books could be written by anyone. And so he alleged, and I've, I've always wondered if this is actually true. And he was handing like receipts and things to his editor or not, but that anybody could write something and he was writing it on, the backs of, you know, grocery bags and things like that. But who knows? It features a recurrence of the Tralfamadorians. In 1991, Vonnegut published a collection of essays titled Fates Worse Than Death. And in it he confessed that he'd tried to die by suicide in 1984.

[Holly Fry]

Vonnegut's 1997 book Timequake invokes the trouble that he often had when grappling with a narrative and makes it essential to the plot of the book. The conceit of the story is that in 2001 everybody gets thrust backwards 10 years to 1991 and they have to repeat those years all over again, but exactly as they played out the first time.

[Brian Young]

The medicine to fix that book is great. It's just Kilgore Trout running around yelling at people, you were sick, but now you're well again, there's work to do. Vonnegut's fiction offered political commentary often. But in 2005, he produced a very overtly political book titled A Man Without a Country, A Memoir of Life in George W. Bush's America. And this book was a surprise hit. I don't know why it was a surprise. I bought a copy and Vonnegut made the rounds of TV talk shows, talking about his disdain for the war in the Middle East. He noted that when he saw images of young Iraqi soldiers being marched with their hands on their heads as prisoners of war, he recognized the exact thing he'd lived through in Germany, and he felt a brotherhood with them.

[Holly Fry]

Even into his 80s, Vonnegut retained his wonderful dark humor. In a lecture he gave at Case western Reserve in 2004, he made an announcement. Here's the big news. I am suing Brown and Williamson Tobacco Company of Louisville, Kentucky, for billions, I hope. And you lawyers here, those in law school, will be interested in this case, I think. I have never smoked anything but Pall Mall since I was 11 years old. This is a Brown and Williamson product on their package. For several years now they've promised to kill me, but I'm smok still alive. 81 years old. Thanks a lot, you dirty rats. He told this story on numerous occasions, including in an interview with Rolling Stone in a couple years later. I think that came out in 2006, and in that version he claimed that he started smoking as a teenager rather than at 11. I don't know why he changed that detail.

[Brian Young]

He probably thought it was funnier that.

[Holly Fry]

He started smoking as later.

[Brian Young]

I don't know. Like, it's interesting when you see his genesis of how he tells stories in person. It's always because he thinks he's getting a funnier punchline out of Wasn't cigarettes that caused Vonnegut's death. It was simply a fall. He'd fallen in his home in 2007, sustained brain injuries, and he died on April 11, 2007.

[Holly Fry]

After his death, a renewed demand for his work led to several new releases. In 2008, Armageddon in retrospect was released by his son Mark. And this brings together both fiction and nonfiction, short form pieces that examine the human propensity for war.

[Brian Young]

Two more books of previously unpublished short fiction came out in the next several years. The first was look at the Birdie in 2009, and the second was While Mortals Sleep, released two years later.

[Holly Fry]

His final writing, which was an unfinished novel and only a very small portion of one that he was working on when he died, was published in 2012 in a book that also included another novella that had never been published. These two works together were titled We Are what We Pretend to Be Pertinent.

[Brian Young]

To Where We Are Today. Vonnegut often said he trusted his writing best when he sounded like a person from Indianapolis. He also said of his body of work, quote, if you were to bother to read my books, to behave as educated persons would, you'd learn that they're not sexy and do not argue in favor of wildness of any kind. They beg that people be kinder and more responsible than they often are.

[Holly Fry]

And that is Kurt Vonnegut, who we both clearly love. Yeah, and I still get choked up over thank you once again to Brian Young for doing that episode with me. It was really, really lovely to have him by my side for it. He loves Kurt Vonnegut in much the same way I do, and he has a wealth of knowledge about him, so it was a perfect fit.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

Yeah. Do you have any listener mail before we wrap up?

[Holly Fry]

No? All right. I will even say, since that was kind of a juicy live show, I'm gonna forego listener mail this time around and we will have some next time around, I promise.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

Alrighty.

[Holly Fry]

If you would like to write to the show, though, in the meantime, so you could potentially be a future listener mail, you can do [e-mail] you can also subscribe to the show in the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to your favorite show.

[Brian Young]

Shows.

[Kurt Vonnegut]

Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Microsoft Representative]

AI is redefining what's possible for your business with more unique challenges to solve and higher stakes than ever, Microsoft helps you stay ahead. Our trustworthy AI tools and guidance can empower leaders like you to drive greater impact. And with Azure's simplified platform management, we're helping businesses go further, faster, unlocking up to 150% improved output. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers Are you hungry?

[Colleen Witt]

Colleen Witt here and Eating While Broke is back for Season four. Every Thursday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. This season, we've got a legendary lineup serving up broke dishes and even better stories. On the menu, we have Tony Baker, Nick Cannon, Melissa Ford, October London, and Carrie Harper Howey turning Big Macs into big moves. Catch Eating While Broke every Thursday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. IHeartRadio app Apple podcasts wherever you get your favorite shows, come hungry for season four.

[Jorge Cham]

Dressing. Dressing.

[Brian Young]

Oh, French dressing.

[Jorge Cham]

Exactly.

[Holly Fry]

That's good.

[Jorge Cham]

I'm AJ Jaco, and my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my podcast, the Puzzler.

[Holly Fry]

Something about Mary Poppins?

[Jorge Cham]

Exactly.

[Microsoft Representative]

This is fun.

[Jorge Cham]

You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Criminalia podcast.

[Brian Young]

I'm Maria Trimorka.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Jorge Cham]

Each season we explore a new theme, from poisoners to art thieves.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching. And tune in at the end of.

[Jorge Cham]

Each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.