A lucky orange bag and an LED mask dilemma

Summary

Style-ish Podcast Summary

Episode: A Lucky Orange Bag and an LED Mask Dilemma
Date: June 16, 2026
Hosts: Madison Sulliv, Joanna Fleming, Annika Joshi Smith, Babs
Podcast by: Shameless Media

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Episode Overview

This lively episode explores two major themes:

1. The viral cultural phenomenon of the “lucky orange bag” at New York Knicks games and its ripple effect across fashion, celebrity, and community.
2. The controversy surrounding a Beauty Pie LED mask and what it means for “clinically proven” claims in beauty advertising.

The hosts dive into superstition, sports excitement, TikTok trends, brand opportunism, and beauty industry ethics, all with their signature humor and sharp insights.

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Tarot Readings, Superstitions & ‘Swaps’ (00:44–09:10)

• Tarot-Infused Anecdotes:
  Madison shares a story about a tarot reader at a jewelry event accurately guessing the origin of her estate necklace from New York, then bestowing it with mystical significance.

  • “You were supposed to have this necklace. This woman has, like, the spirit and energy you need.”
    — (Madison relaying the psychic’s words, 01:22)
  • The hosts gush about the chills from personal and family tarot stories.
  • Joanna proposes a group psychic reading for the podcast.

• Weekly Swaps:
  Recommendations on accessible comfort wear for outerwear season:

  • Uniqlo Heattech Long Sleeves – Budget-friendly base layers.
  • Entire Studio’s Uniform Series – Bodysuits that “snatch you in.”
  • Bepark super fine knits – Luxe merino V-necks.
  • Lululemon Groove Wide Leg Pants – Madison’s must-have for travel and comfort, especially during her upcoming egg-freezing process.
    • “The wide leg. Come to mama. I wore these on the plane last time…they are the comfiest pants. I am obsessed.” (07:16)
  • Pro tip: Pair wide-legs with compression socks (brand: Paire).
  • Candid chat about comfort, body changes, and embracing “noo noo season” (aka loungewear mode).

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The Knicks, The Lucky Orange Bag, and a Culture Wave (10:12–25:33)

The Lucky Orange Bag Story (10:25–14:23)

• Madison leads a breakdown of the New York Knicks’ rare championship run, with viral superstition centering on Jordyn Woods’s orange bag.
  • Fans believe the bag brings luck—every game she brings it, the team wins (except for one security-restricted game).
• TikTok Quotation: Paris Tier’s viral video encapsulates the obsession.
  • “She’s got this orange bag…they have won every single game she’s worn that bag. Except last week…everyone had to take clear bags, so she couldn’t take her bag. And they lost.” — Paris Tier clip (11:11)
• The bag is Jordyn Woods’s own brand—her team’s rapid marketing response (creating a matching shoe for bagless games) earns plaudits.
• Retail pop: The bag retails for ~$119 USD and repeatedly sells out.

Sport, Fashion, and Communal Hype (14:23–25:33)

• The Knicks as a cultural vehicle:
  • “This isn’t just a sporting story; this is a culture story.” (Jenna Litner, 18:52)
• The episode spotlights how the Knicks’ finals run fuses sports, fashion, celebrity, and city-wide joy—totally galvanizing New York.
• Historical trivia: Chanel bags were only $350 when the Knicks last won.
• Celebrities including Taylor Swift, Timothée Chalamet, Adam Sandler, Spike Lee are fixtures at games.
• Access to celebrity front row is “by approval only”—cash isn’t king, fandom is.
• Brilliant brand moves:
  • Save (beauty brand)—partnered with Knicks before their breakout, capitalizing on a largely female fanbase in the stands.
  • Glossier & Kiehl’s—rides the viral energy with creative Knicks-related campaigns.
• DIY and high-fashion sightings:
  • From Bottega purses and “tunnel walks” (player style moments) to viral T-shirts blending Knicks fandom and pop culture.
  • The hosts marvel at NBA stars’ style: “I aspire to be like these men…I’m looking at them for fashion inspo.” (Babs, 21:39)
• Celebration of New York’s multicultural and united spirit:
  • Quoting a viral New Yorker: “My mayor Muslim, my bagel’s Jewish, my Christian Dior, the Knicks in four.”
  • Madison, on unity: “In an America that is so divided…how beautiful it is that a trending audio…is all about the multiculturalism and diversity that is what makes New York the beating heart of America.” (23:33)
• The hosts savor the authenticity of community-generated joy—“brands can’t manufacture this.”

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Beauty Pie LED Mask Controversy: The “Clinically Proven” Debate (25:42–37:31)

What Happened (25:42–29:17)

• Beauty Pie’s LED mask ad claimed to be “clinically proven to reduce wrinkles in four weeks.”
• The UK Advertising Standards Authority pulled the ad:
  • Only 28 people participated in the “trial.”
  • No placebo group; participants used other (not-sold-with-mask) products.
  • Conclusions about wrinkle reduction couldn’t be attributed solely to the mask.
• The hosts break down how beauty brands use “clinically proven,” often on small sample sizes and with lax (sometimes misleading) protocols.
• “Duh. Yeah, no shit, Sherlock.” — Madison (about obvious advertising lapses, 27:06)

What is “Clinically Proven” in Beauty—And How Should We Think About It? (29:17–36:29)

• Typical clinical trial sizes for skincare: 30–80 people, 8–12 weeks—not as robust as consumers might think.
• Devices like LED masks should be regulated as “medical devices” in Australia and the US (TGA/FDA); requirements are much stricter and claims must be warranted.
• Joanna’s comparison:
  • Therabody LED mask study — 104 participants, infra-red results, advanced measurements.
  • CurrentBody — 35 participants, advanced skin imaging.
  • Most brands rely on user self-reporting, which is subjective.
• Red flags for consumers:
  • “A lot of brands just put an LED device up on their website…they might mention wavelength, but there’s no mention of irradiance, which is really critical.” — Joanna Fleming (33:22)
  • Many import rebranded devices without real science behind them.
• UK’s MHRA (Medical and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency) now takes a direct stance on these claims.

Consumer Advice (36:29–37:31)

• Joanna’s tips for LED device shoppers:
  • Seek FDA or TGA approval.
  • Look for irradiance of 30 milliwatts/cm² or higher, wavelengths of 630–660nm (red) and 830–880nm (infra-red).
  • Transparency about clinical study size should be in the fine print.
• Babs: “We are not adding to cart because these devices are expensive and they need to be worth the investment.” (36:49)
• Conclusion: Don’t be scared of “clinical trial” claims but always check the methodology.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I wore these [Lululemon wide leg pants] on the plane last time I traveled overseas. They are the comfiest pants. I am obsessed.”
  — Madison Sulliv (07:16)
• “Let them believe in the orange bag. And might I say [Karl Anthony Towns] was also spotted post their fifth game win for the championship title saying, that bag is the reason we won.”
  — Madison Sulliv (13:09)
• “It’s not really a sports story. This is a culture story. This is about communities coming together. Sports is one of the only things left that creates the shared real time culture.”—Jenna Litner (18:52)
• “In Jojo we trust.” — Babs, on LED device guidance (36:01)
• “Cash is not king. And I’m obsessed.”—Madison (17:16) on celebrity seating policies

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Key Timestamps

• Tarot/Superstition personal stories: 00:44–03:36
• Weekly Swaps (comfy winter dressing): 03:37–09:10
• Knicks, Lucky Orange Bag phenomenon: 10:12–14:23
• NBA, Brands & Fashion Crossover: 14:23–25:33
• Beauty Pie LED Mask Ad Controversy Intro: 25:42–29:17
• Clinical Trials & “Clinically Proven” Debunked: 29:17–36:29
• Consumer Guidance for LED Devices: 36:29–37:31

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Closing Takeaways

• Superstition can be a powerful driver for viral trends—whether it’s a tarot necklace or a basketball purse.
• An authentic sense of community—sports, fashion, or pop culture—can’t be manufactured and creates real, sticky moments brands want to harness.
• Beauty claims require consumer skepticism: small trial sizes and vague “clinical” language are often the norm.
• For techy beauty products (like LED masks), regulatory approval and robust, transparent trials are essential.

Hosts’ Vibe: Warm, irreverent, knowledgeable—always fusing humor with genuine expertise.

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End-of-episode resources & recommendations can be found in the show notes.

Transcript

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Foreign.

[Babs]

This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Merit, the minimalist beauty brand making you feel your best in minutes. Right now, Merit Beauty is offering their signature makeup bag with your first [e-mail] that's M E R I T Beauty dot com.

[Madison Sulliv]

This is stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, beauty, lifestyle and brand. My name is Madison Sulliv, and I am joined by my lovely co hosts, Annika Joshi Smith and Joanna Fleming.

[Joanna Fleming]

Hello.

[Babs]

Hi, guys. How are we?

[Guest/Listener]

Good.

[Madison Sulliv]

I'm great. I'm excited for this week. I feel like it's a good week to have a good week.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And you've just told us off mic that you have some news from a Tarot reader that I'm dying to hear about. So I'd like to get to that, please.

[Madison Sulliv]

It's not so much news, but I look, I'm very superstitious. I don't think I always was, but I'm also very hesitant in my superstition and my woo woo. And I was at an event on Wednesday and there was a tarot card reader there, and I sat down and the event was for a jewelry brand. And so she immediately said, is that necklace from this brand? And I said, no. She goes, good, I didn't think so. That is from an estate auction, isn't it?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Oh.

[Madison Sulliv]

And I said, yes. And she said, do you mind if I touch the necklace? And I said, no, of course not. And so I went to unclip it. And she was like, no, no, I can just touch on your neck. I was like, no, let's do the full, you know, full shebang. And took the necklace off and she held it in her hand and she's like, this is from New York, isn't it? This is from a woman in New York. And it was. It is, I should say the necklace still exists. She was like, you were supposed to have this necklace. This woman has, like, the spirit and energy you need. Did your life get substantially better when you got the necklace, Mads?

[Joanna Fleming]

I have full body chills right now.

[Madison Sulliv]

I had full body chills. And my girlfriend Bec also had a reading with her and had full body chills. This girl was unique, unbelievable. And what she was saying, she was like, was she from here in New York? And when I bought the necklace at the auction, it did have from the estate of a woman on in the particular region of New York that she lived in. And so she was like, it's really important, the irony that I'm not actually wearing this necklace right now it's really important that you don't take this off. Do you wear this in funny places? And I was like, my girlfriend's always laugh that I wear this beautiful necklace to, like, Pilates in the supermarket. She's like, it's really important that you do. Like, it's. It's the embodiment of the spirit you're supposed to have.

[Babs]

Oh, my gosh, I am so into this. My mum and I actually, we went and got our readings done in New Zealand. We drove three hours out of Auckland and we went to this teeny, tiny, remote little village. I can't even say the name. Like, everything so far that she said has happened to me. I'm so into this, you guys.

[Joanna Fleming]

I love this so much.

[Madison Sulliv]

Jo, we had one recently as well.

[Joanna Fleming]

I've had so many readings in my life. I absolutely love getting psychic readings.

[Babs]

Can we get one together? Can we do something like a stylish outing where, like, all five of us hosts go and actually get our readings done together?

[Madison Sulliv]

I feel like we just bring them in the studio. Even better. We don't have to travel.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, my God.

[Babs]

Real Time Live.

[Joanna Fleming]

I've done that. On the last podcast that I hosted, we had a psychic. Come on.

[Babs]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Joanna Fleming]

I actually need to listen back to that episode.

[Babs]

Okay.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

But I do remember her saying a lot of stuff that sounded a lot like Adrian.

[Babs]

Oh, okay. Way into the woo.

[Joanna Fleming]

Woo. So interesting though. I love this, Jo.

[Madison Sulliv]

When I finished back on, I know the irony. I, like, literally didn't take it off. When I got in the shower after I'd been at the event, I was like, must keep on at all times.

[Joanna Fleming]

So is your swap this Tarot reader then?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

No.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay, well, you're gonna have to give me your details after this so that I can book before this episode goes live. Because, like, the Etsy witch, she'll be booked out and then she'll have to like.

[Babs]

That is a great shout.

[Madison Sulliv]

She'll be booked and busy. No, but we will be talking a little bit of superstition a little later in this episode, but we are gonna do the swap first. Jo, why don't you do the swap first?

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, this one's actually kind of for you personally because I know how ADD you were to off campus and that you've rewatched it, and I think this would really be something nice for you to watch one night this week with a little bit of popcorn on your couch, just relaxing. I watched Office Romance on Netflix over the weekend. Is this the JLo JLo? Yes. JLo and Brett Goldstein, who was Roy Kent in Ted Lasso, for those who have watched that series, absolutely love that series as well. But it was actually written by him and it's a really nice, like fun, light hearted rom com. It's just heartwarming. Like it's one of those shows that you're just like, I just feel good watching this. Like, it's funny, it's just enjoyable to watch. The acting's not terrible and yeah, it's just a nice little show.

[Babs]

I am so stuck on the title, like Office Romance. Like, are you wanting her to pick up at her co working space? I'm like, what about me?

[Joanna Fleming]

No, I think she, I think she'd really vibe with it. You might as well.

[Babs]

Poppy might like to watch it. I low key love soppy shit. Like give me like those light hearted, like, I love a hippie.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's just an easy watch and sometimes you just need an easy watch just to turn on while you eat your dinner and just to fill your evening.

[Madison Sulliv]

Reverse Swap. I'm actually watching Not Suitable for Work, which is Mindy Kaling's new show. If you loved like the Office or, you know, the New Girl, like that kind of vein, this show is for you. And there are also a few little office romances in there and I do love them.

[Babs]

So there we go. Ding, ding, ding.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

There it is.

[Joanna Fleming]

We should have asked the Tarot reader if there was any office romances on the cards.

[Babs]

Anyway, I feel like I need to swap on a show, but I'm not going to because it is outerwear season and this is the season where our outerwear can definitely be the entire look. When I wear outerwear, sometimes I wear way too many layers underneath. And when you get too hot and your outerwear is the look, it's not it.

[Joanna Fleming]

You always wear things in here that are like, you know, that this room gets really hot. I don't know why you do this every week. She's in a leather shirt today.

[Babs]

I know. And I actually can't take the shirt off because as I was walking out the door, Poppy spit up all over me. So I'm like covered and spit up. But I'm actually wearing one of my swaps. So my swaps are next to skin layers and I have been investing in quite a few. Jo's actually got a great one on today that we should actually swap in. But my go to every single winter are the Uniqlo Heat Tech Long Sleeves. They're great. They start at $24.90 and you can Get a range of necklines and colors. If you want something a little bit more something you'd wear as, like, its own pace. I love Entire Studio's uniform series. They are like a $130 price point. They're all on sale now, but they're really cool bodysuits, so they kind of like, snatch you in as well and give you a bit of shape, which I love.

[Madison Sulliv]

Oh, you got me on the snatch.

[Babs]

I know. We love a snatch. And then I know why.

[Madison Sulliv]

That was my sound effect for a snatch.

[Babs]

The one I'm wearing today, which I will not be showing anybody because it's covered in spit up, is the Bepark super fine knits. Now, these are a little bit more lush. They've got, like, a really cute V neck. I'm loving a V neck at the moment. They're 220, but they've got a merino composition, which I love as well. So a little bit more warm. So I'm sweating over here.

[Joanna Fleming]

I love a little bit of a thermal underneath, like a good quality knit because it really holds the heat underneath. So then you don't necessarily need to wear a jacket over the top. You can just wear the knit.

[Madison Sulliv]

Babs, I am in strong noo noo season at the moment. Just comfies in general.

[Joanna Fleming]

Aren't we all?

[Madison Sulliv]

Look, I'm gonna swallow the frog and say the uncomfy thing. Have you not had the same thing?

[Joanna Fleming]

I've never heard that.

[Babs]

Okay, this is the second week in a row that you have said the most random, like, cliche, like, I don't know.

[Madison Sulliv]

It's not a cliche if you don't

[Babs]

know what we're like. What is this MST language?

[Guest/Listener]

Swallow.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Swallow.

[Madison Sulliv]

The frog has to do the uncomfortable thing. Cause, like, if you think about swallowing a frog, it'd be uncomfortable, right?

[Ruby]

Yeah.

[Madison Sulliv]

He gets looking at me like, I've got seven heads anyway. Or a pet frog. I'm gonna swallow the frog. I am going to be freezing, hopefully an egg in the coming months. And so I'm gonna be spending a lot more time at home. And that sometimes means expanding wastes and all those things as well. So I am spending some cash on some comfy things. And every time I do an egg retrieval, I buy myself a look. And I'm gonna buy myself another pair of these pants. I actually think I'm gonna go chocolate this time. Jo, for you, they are the Lululemon. I've got them written down. Groove wide leg pants. Now, the original groove pants, I don't think are made for five foot three girls who don't want people to stare at their hips. I think that is the total opposite of what the groove pants stands for. But the wide leg. Come to mama. I wore these on the plane last time I traveled overseas. They are the comfiest pants. I am obsessed. I don't think I can own enough.

[Joanna Fleming]

I haven't tried these ones but I have tried the nimble ones and I have two pairs of them and they're also great.

[Madison Sulliv]

Love.

[Babs]

I just love a wide leg. Like I've so moved on from my like skin tight tights onto my wide legs. And they're great on the plane because then you can wear your compression socks which everybody should wear. I know. There you go.

[Joanna Fleming]

Mummy, tell me you're a mom.

[Babs]

Yes, she is. You know she's entered the chat.

[Madison Sulliv]

Obsessed. Have never done it. Have suffered cankles every flight.

[Babs]

Yeah, see that? You need to get the compressions from pair P A I R E. Great.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay. Bonus swap.

[Madison Sulliv]

Spell it out for you too.

[Joanna Fleming]

We can add that to the episode notes as well. Anyway, today we are talking about the cultural phenomenon that is the Knicks games and why beauty retailer Beauty Pie landed in some trouble for an ad about their LED mask. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor.

[Babs]

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[Madison Sulliv]

The one thing I will say about me is there is not a predictability to what I want to talk about from week to week or what I get excited about in our editorial whips, but have you guys been following Go, New York. Go, New York, go.

[Babs]

I was so waiting for it. I'm like, I'm looking at meds right now, and I'm looking.

[Joanna Fleming]

We not be.

[Madison Sulliv]

Are we jazzed up? Are we jacked up? I still don't have the answer to that, but I'm like, yes, one of the two.

[Babs]

It's been so hard to miss. Like, so impossible to miss. And I just feel like I want to be in New York right now.

[Madison Sulliv]

There's no city I want to be in more than New York right now. There's no brand I want to be working on right now more than Jordan woods brand. Because have you seen the hype and conversation around the little orange bag and

[Joanna Fleming]

the superstition around the little orange bag?

[Babs]

We need to lean in. Like, you need to explain to everybody what the superstition is around this orange bag, because I actually didn't know.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay? So I actually saw a TikTok from creator Paris Tier that we're gonna play now because I think that she encapsulates the enthusiasm about the bag about as much as we would.

[Madison Sulliv]

Great.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

She's got this orange bag, and 12 rounds ago, she was like, I'm gonna start wearing this orange bag. It's gonna win us the premiership. Or what do they call it, Connor?

[Madison Sulliv]

The championship. Whatever it's called. Championship, Championship.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

So she starts wearing it. She has won. Obviously, she's not playing, but they have won every single game she's worn that bag. Except for last week, obviously there were no bags because the president was there, so everyone had to take clear bags so she couldn't take her bag. And they lost.

[Madison Sulliv]

And then they won today because she had the bag. And I'm just like, I don't even.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I like basketball, but, like, I'm clocked in because, like, I just want to know about this girl and her bag. Like, it's a lucky bag. I don't believe in superstition either, but I am hooked.

[Babs]

No, like, I want to have a drink with this girl.

[Joanna Fleming]

She's funny. I love her enthusiasm about the bag. And also, like, not knowing what the championships are called, but being so locked into the bag. Loved that so much.

[Madison Sulliv]

It's giving very Australian centric sporting female being like, the Premiership, it's like, no, no, not the afl. This is the championship.

[Babs]

But it also really big deal.

[Joanna Fleming]

It goes to show that not only Americans are excited about this phenomenon. Everyone around the world including us all the way in Australia are jacked jazzed about this, about this championship.

[Madison Sulliv]

I know that this is a beauty brand lifestyle podcast, but I'm going to go a bit sport. While the Knicks is arguably one of the most recognized NBA franchises and I would say merch wise probably the most widely worn, probably alongside the Lakers and the Bulls, this is monumental for them sporting organisation like they haven't made the finals since 99. They haven't won the championship for 50 years. So if these sporting fans want to believe in an orange bag that the fiance of Karl Anthony Townes is taking to the game, let them believe in the orange bag. And might I say he was also spotted post their fifth game win for the championship title saying, that bag is the reason we won. Yeah, like this bag might end up in like the championship museum.

[Joanna Fleming]

He was summoning Jordan into photos like with the media being like this is the bag. Make sure you get the bag in it.

[Madison Sulliv]

I mean good fiance. Because what you might not know is this little orange bag that popped out of the four of the five games. Most important to note, the four winning of the five games is actually Jordan Wood's own brand. And so it was quite genius because they were working at a speed that is just kind of unmatched. Each game for the finals is like three to four days apart. And so when it was announced that President Trump would be going to the game and that there would be no bags, they did this reactive marketing campaign with a matching shoe on top being like, never fear, we've made a shoe for it in the same materiality and the same colour. So like good on her team for being able to like clap back as quickly as that. But pretty insane like her. Like I think it's 119 USD that this little orange bag's like popping off.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, her actual range is quite fairly priced.

[Madison Sulliv]

Yeah, go off Queen.

[Babs]

Okay guys, I feel like this is so iconic speaking of bags because according to the fashion observe the last time the Knicks won the title, a Chanel flat bag cost $350. Like we are talking about five decades have now passed and that's how cheap they were. And it's just crazy because even like the vintage that we're see seen all over town like this is proving that the NBA the win. It's not just for sports people. This is like the biggest fusion and intersection between lifestyle. I'm gonna sound like our podcast now, but entertainment and like brands and the opportunity like people putting like cute little vintage Manolo Blahniks all over Penn Station. And, like, there's been all these little installations, like, all the girlies and blue and orange. Not my colors, but would wear. Like, everyone is going off.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, I was going to say Mads character arc is that she's, like, surprised us by being an NBA expert. So I was going to ask you and be like, why is this significant for us to talk about on this podcast?

[Madison Sulliv]

Look, I mean, as I said, it's historical from a sporting perspective, but we're not. This is not our podcast. I don't know, maybe my character arc is. One day I will have this.

[Joanna Fleming]

You made cleaning happen.

[Madison Sulliv]

First ufc, now NBA.

[Babs]

I will never get over the ufc.

[Madison Sulliv]

But my point is, with this, we're seeing, like, this real cultural moment and, you know, surge of unity. And I think that's why it's so special. We're seeing all these brands that are New York based or US based, jump on the bandwagon, the likes of glossier Kiehl's. We've had Uber takeovers in it. We're seeing New York or nowhere flying mega fans over on private jets to watch this game. Like, it's so much hype and unity and excitement and the fact that we're not sporting people and we're all seeing New York Knicks algorithms. Then you layer in the celebrity hype.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

We.

[Madison Sulliv]

This honestly sounds like a Met Gala red carpet. We've had Taylor Swift, the Haim Sisters, Timothee Chalamet at every single game. Like, that man is a mega fan. Ben Stiller was there for all of the finals in 99. He's there and rumored to be making a doco on it now. Which bonus swap Last Dance on Netflix. Probably one of the best documentaries I've ever watched. I cannot wait for this to come out. We've had. I'm like Adam Sandler, Spike Lee, Spike Lee, Spike Lee. Spike Lee is the Knicks man. But fun fact for you. God, I have so many fun facts.

[Babs]

I'm so happy this has been, like, filmed, because, honestly, like, seeing the enthusiasm in the room right now, it's infectious, it's contagious. It's channeling the energy of New York City.

[Madison Sulliv]

So you actually can't just get a celebrity front row seat. You have to be approved by the Knicks owner, like, as a true Nick's megafan. And I love that. Sick.

[Babs]

I love that according to Times as well. Apparently, you've got to sit a test. So it's like you have to be a mega, mega, mega fan. It doesn't care. Like, oh, you're a celebrity. Like you have to pass the test to prove that you're worthy to sit down at a game in front row, in the celebrity row.

[Madison Sulliv]

Iconic cash is not king. And I'm obsessed.

[Joanna Fleming]

I love that actually.

[Madison Sulliv]

Me too. Look, what I love about this though is that there are brands that are really jumping on this. And shout out to one woman in the beauty industry who is having the time of her life now, and that is the founder of save, who I believe last year was sitting at a family friendly game. I was reading this article on Fortune that she was at a family friendly day game for the Knicks and looked around and saw all these women in the stands and thought not one of these brands is marketing to women. And so she signed on as the official beauty partner of the Knicks as a franchise team. So not the NBA, just that team. She is tickled pink this week. I think she's having the time of her life and already renewed her second year partnership. And what a genius this was at a time they hadn't made a final since 99. Like this wasn't a winning team to jump on the bandwagon of and they are just laughing all the way to the bank.

[Joanna Fleming]

Maybe she saw a tarot reader.

[Babs]

Maybe. I honestly love this though because it's like she took such a bet and she took a bet at a time where like Madras said, this team wasn't winning, they weren't on a winning streak. And I think what it layers in for me is just how resilient New Yorkers are as well. Like the fandom and the super fandom layering back into the mania that we're seeing. I think that's for me why I'm hooked. I'm not an NBA girly, never was an NBA girly, but here I am, I'm so invested, I'm locked in. I go for the fucking Knicks. Like, go New York, go New York, go.

[Joanna Fleming]

Speaking of that mania, actually there are a really good reel from a New York City based creator called Jenna Litner. I'm going to play it for you now because she just summarizes it absolutely, absolutely, perfectly. This mania that we're seeing around the Knicks.

[Jenna Litner]

I love seeing so many people that maybe haven't previously cared all that much about sports tap into this exact moment and live sports create this genuine cultural moment that I've talked about before. And style kind of comes with that. We see people that have never cared about the sport, never cared about Knicks showing up to the bars, the watch parties, dressed to the nines, inspired, representing their team. We see fashion Publications writing non stop about Tyler Cullick's incredible look. Timothee Chalamet and Kylie Jenner matching in their jeans, Chef's kiss, Jordyn Wood's bag. And we're talking about her literal purse. Attendance at the games became a massive headline and honestly, that was warranted. So my point here is this is not really a sports story. This is a culture story. This is about communities coming together. Sports is one of the only things left that creates the shared real time culture. And when it does, it kind of touches everything.

[Madison Sulliv]

It just sums it up perfectly. Jo, I love that when you shared that it was so articulate and I

[Joanna Fleming]

think in terms of fashion as well, I also saw a post from Data but Maker Fashion, one of our favorite Instagram, the Instagram on this podcast and they posted that blue being a trending color this year isn't just a coincidence. Like major moments in other industries are influencing what is happening in fashion. What is trending in fashion? Like it's not a coincidence that Lady Gaga was in blue at the super bowl, that Mercedes have been winning races in the F1. Like all of these different things are now the Knicks and orange was trending last year when there were a lot of like sporting and music moments as well, leaning into orange. So there's just all of these like cultural things that come together that influence pretty much everything we do.

[Madison Sulliv]

And I mean Annika was telling us about how contrasting colors were in trend for this season. So lucky Nicks, it's a good time to be in blue and orange.

[Joanna Fleming]

It really is.

[Babs]

Do you know what it actually takes me back to like something that got my attention when it comes to basketball and just sporting in general now is the iconic tunnel walks. Like I am so here for those tunnel fits. And just seeing all the players, their personality, like speaking of opportunities to cash in, if you are a stylist, dress one of those men dress a sports player. Like that is their literal Met Gala. That's their Runway.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Babs]

And something I feel like I'm obsessed with bags today, but I have been like looking at all of the players bags and I just have to call out how iconic these are. So Jeremy Sohan rocking his like XXL Birkin. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Birkin. 40 Chef's Kiss and then Josh Hart with his Bottega. It was a teeny tiny purse Bottega and he's so big. So like the proportions here are just so funny to look at. But he was like he was serving a look. And then also Tyler Kolek, who I think is on everyone's radar. Like, he was dressed in the most gorgeous double denim set with a R.O. handbag.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sulliv]

I mean, every brand you've listed is definitely giving that they are on the 20, 30, $40 million a year salaries that they are. Like, I didn't hear, like, Target or Walmart anywhere.

[Babs]

Like, I aspire to be like, these men. Like, I'm looking at them for fashion inspo. It's just like, when did this happen to me?

[Madison Sulliv]

I love most at the moment is like, all of the DIY tees and bags and things that have come out of this too. So, like, the Haim sisters T shirts went viral that were like, the play on the word Nick. So it was like Stevie Nicks, Nicole Kidman. People were then making DIY ones again three days later. Like, it's this speed, this buzz. But I love the brands jumping onto this because I think the smartest brands will do this. Because the one thing that's really hard to emulate is community and buzz and hype. And I think because it's a buzzy word in marketing at the moment, it's never felt more alienated or forced. And I think it's so manufactured that when we see it in its truest form, we love it and are drawn to it so much. So brands kind of going, we're not trying to compete with it. We're just wanting to piggyback alongside it. It's kind of the most fun. Like, I think glossier have done a pretty good job. I would say they've become, like, pretty irrelevant in the beauty world. Like, I think their has slipped a little bit. You know, they were like, talking about engraving in store nicks in five, or if they were to win, you know, the fifth game and hence the championship, that there would be, like, an offer in store to all customers. And they had an ilovenewyorkbank.com like, that's clever stuff to be able to kind of piggyback into that draws you back into a relevant conversation. Totally the lucky last. I mean, a poet and he didn't know it was the guy who ended up on some live news broadcast. And he was like, my mayor Muslim. My bagels Jewish, my Christian Dior. The Knicks in four. Now, the Knicks didn't win in four, so they got him back for what was it gonna be on five. It was my mayor still Muslim. My bagel's still Jewish. The Pope's on our side. Knicks in five.

[Jenna Litner]

Now.

[Madison Sulliv]

I don't. I don't think I'll be winning an Oscar for my American accent anytime soon. But what I loved about this, there was an Instagram account called Diet Parantha, which I know, Annika, you've swapped in before where a creator was doing a video on there saying, do you realize in an America that is so divided, how beautiful it is, that, like, a trending audio on social media that brands are using, that influencers are using, is all about the multiculturalism and diversity that is what makes New York the beating heart of America. Like, New York does feel like a country within a country. It's its own little epicenter. And I think at a time when everything is so divided and everyone loves something or loathes something, it was just so nice for everyone to be, like, so excited and buzzy about something like this that is celebrating the unity of New York.

[Babs]

And I think that's what it is, right? Like, that's what caught my attention. Like, again, not a fan. Never was a fan, but now I am. I'm locked in. And I think the thing that really is getting me, it's emulating that sense of joy, which you can't manufacture, like, big brands cannot manufacture. This. This is so organic. And it's literally everyone just coming together, hugging in the streets like New Yorkers sometimes. Sorry, if you're listening and you're from New York, kind of rude. Like, sometimes they're not the happiest bunch of people, like, honking all the time. Taxis, oh, my gosh. This is not that. This is, like, so much joy that is just created because everyone's coming together and sharing a collective goal, a vision. It's an America that people want and want to see. You know, coming forward again in future. Doesn't matter what your race is, your beliefs are, your tax bracket, where you're from, where you're going, none of it matters. It's literally a time to celebrate the people of New York. And, like, right now, like, that's what made me so happy to see it. I was like, I want to be there. I want to be in, like, that crowd. Shirts off, like, let's go.

[Jenna Litner]

Yeah.

[Madison Sulliv]

And the only other two people I want to be are anyone who's got ample stock of Nick's resale memorabilia that's on market right now, or the people that are about to produce the 2026 merch, because I reckon they're going to have a really good time.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, absolutely. All right, next, we're talking about what the Beauty Pie LED mask saga tells us about beauty advertising. But that will be right after a Word from today's sponsor.

[Madison Sulliv]

There are few things better than getting a recommendation from someone who really knows their stuff. That's exactly why we love Dan Murphy's. Their team are constantly keeping an eye on what's new, what's trending, and what drinks people are talking about. Whether you're looking for something to bring to a dinner party, planning a weekend catch up, or simply keen to try something different, they've made it easy to discover your next favorite drink, head into store, jump on the app, or browse online to find out what's new now and next at Dan Murphy's. Remember to choose to drink wise and thank you so much to Dan Murphy's for making this episode of Stylish possible. Okay, so our head of podcast Lucy brought this story to our attention last week. Beauty Pie, a direct to consumer beauty membership club, had to pull an ad down for their LED mask due to misleading anti wrinkle claims. We're looking at Jojo ready to absolutely take the floor here, but there's a lot of chat about it online. And so According to the BBC, PewDiePie stated that the mask was clinically proven to reduce wrinkles in four weeks. But the advertising watchdog said it did not provide enough evidence to support the claim. If I had a penny for every time I read the word clinically proven or that there was like a percentage or claim, I feel like I've been watching these in Olay ad since I

[Babs]

was like seven guys. This is a full disclaimer. Like I can't say this is factual or not, but I feel like when you walk down the supermarket aisle at all the accessible beauty, a lot of them will say clinically proven on the packaging.

[Madison Sulliv]

Yeah, which just to be clear, none of those brands are doing the wrong thing. And that's where this comes in. So in the same article, according to Beauty Pie, the mask was tested on 28 people age 30 to 65 over four weeks, with 92% of testers either agreeing or strongly agreeing that their fine lines appeared less visible. So when we say clinically proven, this is what we want to get into. But the advertising standard called this a relatively small sample size. So sample size is how many people are in your trial that you're testing. And they noted that there was no placebo group and the testers were instructed to use an exfoliator and a hydrogel which were not sold with the mask. So we're not comparing like for like here. This is a completely different. That's like saying use this cleanser alongside this serum and moisturizer. And then we're going to say this cleanser is clinically proven to deliver X, Y and Z. Well, no, we've got a trio. We're not just talking about a singular product. So they concluded that the reported improvements in the appearance of wrinkles could not be attributed to the mask alone. Duh. Yeah, no shit, Sherlock. Yeah, that's a bit of one of those. Now, Jo, our resident beauty expert, tell me a penny for your many thoughts.

[Joanna Fleming]

A very silly mistake on the brand's part, not being more aware, especially around advertising claims in relation to a device. Yeah, from what I could see, this device was not FDA approved or cleared, and it wasn't TGA approved either. So technically, someone in the team may not have been aware that you can't just throw around these claims and hope for the best. Obviously they did do some kind of trial, but not within the right parameters. To be able to make a kind of claim like you can get rid of wrinkles in four weeks. That's a big call. Even if your device was FDA cleared or approved. I would be very nervous to say that about a device if I was the brand founder. But as you said, they also had their subjects using other products as well, which I would argue could definitely improve the skin, being an exfoliant and a hydrogel. Well, absolutely agree with you that obviously those things could also improve the skin. And they didn't have a placebo group either, and they had that small group of people doing the study.

[Babs]

Okay, so tell me if I'm being crazy right now, but 28 people for a sample size, Is this not absurd for, like a product that's going to shelves to global customers?

[Madison Sulliv]

Not a silly question, but the answer is a lot more surprising than you might think. So the average clinical trial for a topical skin care product is usually about 30 to 80 people. And it's tested over an eight to 12 week period, 12 kind of being the gold standard. So that is not uncommon. And what they'll try and do within that is get different ages, different skin types, different life stages, so that it is reflective, as the name suggests, a sample of the population to do a clinical trial with like 5, 600 people is such an exercise. And doing a clinical trial is really expensive because. Because you need constant feedback. You need to be like, filtering through the client group. It's like a massive exercise and a massive investment for a business. So it is funny when you're watching these ads and it's like, you know, these massive claims, like, yes, they're doing everything above board by clinical trial standards. But there might only be a sample group of 50.

[Babs]

That is wild to me. And it's like also, if you're selling a product for people to put on their faces, wouldn't you want the integrity of the product and the credibility of your brand to shine through? Like, is that not worth the investment

[Joanna Fleming]

as a comparison for you, Annika, to give you a little read on other studies that have happened. Because LED is my special interest.

[Madison Sulliv]

If people do not special interest, at least furious right now it's your passion.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, Therabody did a study on their theraface mask Glow and that's now backed by the largest clinical study of any LED mask available on the market right now with 104 participants with varying Fitzpatrick skin types, which is your skin tone essentially. So they've trialled that device on all skin tones to get a read of that. And currentbody completed a 56 day study on their series 2 LED mask with 35 subjects. And they used some advanced technology alongside self reporting to measure the results. So they used a corneometer to measure hydration. They used a Vizier device which is where they take photos of your skin. They can see what's going on with vascularity and pigment and all those types of things. So it also comes down to Beauty Pie. Like was that all self reporting? Because that's just the people that have done the study observing their own skin and they're not skin experts.

[Babs]

Right.

[Joanna Fleming]

So there's also that part to the picture as well.

[Babs]

I actually found this interesting. I didn't know about this and I was so intrigued by the product itself. So I jumped online onto the Beauty Pie actual website and had a look at the reviews on the product. I was actually astounded to see that they had 61 customers actually leave a one star review saying that the products didn't work. But like it's just so interesting because obviously those 61 people aren't reflected in the 20 sample size results.

[Madison Sulliv]

Devil's Advocate. A product review and a clinical trial can be very different. So someone's individual experience with something isn't necessarily a clinical trial. If we've got 60, 80 people in the therabody version. 106.

[Babs]

Was it 104?

[Madison Sulliv]

104. So sorry. Added to the 104, it's like, you know, that's still not going to be reflective of the population as a whole. You will still have someone who doesn't use it correctly or doesn't have a good experience despite using it alongside instructions. And you don't know what products they're using in their regime as it is. I think what's really kind of layered in this one as well is that they didn't classify it as a medical device. And in Australia, under TGA regulations, I can't speak for the UK as, as I said, compliance background, AU compliance background. Just to be really specific here, you know, it is considered a medical device. It does change the appearance of your skin, so you must register it as a device price. It's not like selling a serum. You can go and sell a serum and as long as your claims aren't interfering with TGA requirements, you're well within your right just to talk about it as a topical skincare product, so long as you're not making, you know, puffery or, you know, inflated language in claims. So I think there were like a lot of boxes with big red crosses in this instance. It wasn't as simple as they fell over the mask.

[Babs]

It's really making me question, like all my beauty products at home, I'm like,

[Joanna Fleming]

well, this is why I really prefer to talk about and work with LED brands. Like, if I'm doing a comparison, I want to work with brands that are FDA approved or TGA approved so that I can see what data there is behind their device. Because there are a lot of brands that can just put an LED device up on their website, give you very loose information about the device. They might mention wavelength, but there's no mention of a radiance, which is really critical when it comes to the efficacy of the device. And they just won't give you that information. A, they might not know it because they don't really know anything about LED and they've just, you know, purchased like a product from a supplier and put their branding on it. So they might not be able to give you that information. But I also see this constantly in the LED space, is that brands will advertise the results of LED light therapy. So they'll say red light, for example, can do X, Y, Z. But they are using that to insinuate that their device can do that, when really, if it doesn't meet these parameters, it's not going to deliver those results. So that's where I think there's a lot of false advertising in this space in particular. But brands that do have FDA approval or TGA approval in Australia and they want to make more medical claims, I suppose, and refer to medical conditions like acne or rosacea, for example, and their devices being able to improve conditions like that if they are FDA approved or cleared or TGA approved, then they have to be able to prove that that device is able to do that or able to be used as a treatment, I suppose, for those types of medical conditions. So there's a lot more adherence that has to be abided by when you're governed by these bodies, which is really important for us as consumers.

[Babs]

Yeah, right.

[Madison Sulliv]

Well, it safeguards us.

[Joanna Fleming]

Right now this is a UK based brand, so they are regulated by the mhra, which is basically the UK version of the FDA and the tga. But a lot of devices in market you will see are FDA approved or TGA approved if they're a str Australian brands or they've come from, you know, a different country. So that's why I'm referring to those regulatory bodies in particular.

[Madison Sulliv]

It's so layered. And I do worry as well with all of the device technology that I do anticipate to continue coming out. A girlfriend of mine was just recently in South Korea and said the devices that are over there, as well as just the breadth of beauty, there's so much that's coming through in that space. It will be interesting to see how the tga, FDA and mhra, which is the UK equivalent of that body, will respond to the requirements and registrations for all these individual devices, whether it be led at home, skin needling, you know, the suctioned, the ones that Jo hates with every living fiber of her body. Like, it will be interesting to see how more, you know, more of these devices are regulated.

[Babs]

Oh my gosh. So in JoJo we trust. Can you please tell me and the listeners what LED mask should we be buying then?

[Joanna Fleming]

I can't tell you that.

[Babs]

Why?

[Joanna Fleming]

Because there are compliance. Yeah, well, I'm not, I'm not technically gatekeeping. I have compared a lot of devices on socials and that is kind of a workaround to be able to give you the information without saying this is what you should go and buy. Because I love it, because the TGA guidelines prevent me from doing that.

[Babs]

Understood.

[Joanna Fleming]

But what I can tell you is that if you want to be looking for an LED device, if you're in the market for one, you want to look for a device within a radiance of 30 milliwatts per centimeter squared or higher, wavelengths of between 630 and 660 nanometers for red and 830 and 880 nanometers for near infrared. And if the brand give you that information, we are not buying their products.

[Babs]

We are not adding to CART because these devices are expensive and they need to be worth the investment. Okay, thank you, Jojo.

[Joanna Fleming]

There's plenty more where that came from on my Instagram. Yeah.

[Madison Sulliv]

And if you do want to see how many people are in the clinical trial majority of the time, at least for Australian standards, you will see a little asterisk at the bottom and it should say the sample size or the clinical trial group size or age bracket that they were within.

[Babs]

That's a great shout. I'm going to look out for the

[Joanna Fleming]

fine print and a lot of these reputable brands will also have the studies on their website somewhere as well because they want that. They've gone to the effort of doing a study as well.

[Madison Sulliv]

Totally. And my key takeaway for largely you, Anika, but maybe people listening as well. Don't be scared of anyone that says clinical trial. It is very likely they have done the right thing.

[Babs]

I'm just in this case of where it's from and go find all the fine print before I add to cart because you know how I get with my little tappity tap.

[Madison Sulliv]

That is all for this week's episode of Stylish. On that note, Annika will be spending the next seven days until our next recording in the fine print.

[Joanna Fleming]

Evidently.

[Madison Sulliv]

If you enjoyed this episode of Stylish, we would love if you could subscribe to our weekly newsletter. It drops every Wednesday. We share all of our recs, our tips and the people we admire. We've got lots of familiar faces and new faces that pop up there. The link is, as always, in our show notes alongside all of our recommendations. A big thank you to the Shameless Media team that make every episode, every week happen. Our head of podcast, Lucy Hunt and our senior podcast producer, Kate Emmer Burke. We will be right back with you this Friday. It'll be Naima and myself and then we'll see you next Wednesday.

[Joanna Fleming]

Bye.

[Babs]

Bisa Bista. This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

[Ruby]

Hello, it's Ruby here, the host of Shameless Media's interview show, Inherited. New interviews drop every single Tuesday and I wanted to remind you about about the special life lessons episode with my Nana K. A few weeks ago we sat down in Perth together and unpacked the last 80 years of her life.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's a really interesting story.

[Ruby]

The Inherited team are actually going to share their thoughts about this episode. First up is Annabelle Lee.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Hi.

[Madison Sulliv]

I adore this episode.

[Babs]

It's got to be one of my

[Joanna Fleming]

most favorite episodes of Inherited because obviously you guys have such a close special bond.

[Madison Sulliv]

Nana K. Has has such a fascinating story that I did know about, but not this much.

[Joanna Fleming]

Also, just one last thing. I really love.

[Babs]

This is kind of random, but I

[Joanna Fleming]

really love how many times Nana K. Said your name.

[Madison Sulliv]

It was just so special.

[Ruby]

She was saying a lot and it

[Madison Sulliv]

was just filled with so much love

[Joanna Fleming]

and I just adored this episode.

[Guest/Listener]

And Nana K. I love this episode so much. As someone who has lost all of their grandparents, I actually lost them by the age of 11. I've never been able to have a conversation with them as an adult, so I don't know what they were like. And it was so cool to see Rubes now in her 30s, talking to her grandma about what she was like in her 30s and asking questions that I don't think that you can ask in normal family circumstances. So it was just a fascinating conversation. I cried 10 minutes in. I wish I could have a line with her.

[Babs]

Ruby's Nana is just so thoughtful, reflective, and. And has a emotional depth to her that I think a lot of grandparents probably can't access. It's like it's that reflective chat over a lifetime that you just really wish you could go that deep with your grandparents. So, yeah, it made me cry so

[Ruby]

much to listen to this conversation in full with my Nana K. Just search Inherited on your favorite podcast app. And Inherited interviews drop every single Tuesday. So we'll see you then.