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Foreign.
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This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Bioderma's new Hydra Bio hydroactive range. If you don't stop, why should your hydration find the Bioderma hydrabio range at leading pharmacies and beauty retailers. This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business and beauty. Happy Friday. I'm Madison Sullivan Thorpe and I'm joined by my lovely co host, Rhiannon Joyce.
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A
Hello. Hello, Ray.
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B
I got our intro wrong for the Wednesday, but this is definitely the Friday episode where our corner is brand and business, campaigns, career stories, all the things. And I am so excited to talk about this episode.
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A
Before we get into the episode, can I tell you something that was not on my bingo card this week?
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B
Pray do tell.
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A
So, Shein acquiring Everlane. Did you see this?
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B
It was a hard one to miss. I had to fact check when I saw this pop up in my Instagram feed because I actually thought it was a joke.
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A
I was gobsmacked. I was so gobsmacked. And for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about. On May 17, Park News reported that Chinese fast fashion giant Shein is acquiring a D2C fashion brand, Everlane, for $100 million. Why we are gobsmacked by this is because you couldn't have two businesses that allegedly operate on two completely different ends of the sustainability spectrum. Everlane made a name for itself as a sustainably focused business. That was part of their brand. That was their DNA. That was very much their shtick in what they were putting out there on their website under the sustainability tab. They actually tell us we're on a mission to clean up the industry. It's a movement that we're calling cleaner fashion. I mean, we all know what Shein is known for. Yeah.
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B
And if you don't, I guess, like, it's a celebration of overconsumption, because there will be people who are like, oh, I've never sort of seen that, or I've only ever been served an ad from them. But this is an algorithm fueled brand that thrives on you buying as much as possible as often as possible, which is the total contrast to everything that Eveline supposedly has stood for and stands for today.
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A
The price point of Shein's items as well, so, so cheap. And it's just buying into this trend cycle. Their sustainability impact on the world is so bad that last year, Shein was actually fined 1 million euros for making misleading or emissive environmental claims about its products. So that was by the Italian authorities. And according to the Guardian, this wasn't actually the first time they've been targeted by European regulators and being called out for the fact that they are just deeply unsustainable.
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B
I mean, what's so fascinating to me is like I kind of want to go back to a time where Everlane was in its glory days because for me the price that it sold for was a little surprising. Like it sold for 100 million USD. Look, and $100 million shocked me. And I know that that sounds crazy to something being sold for $100 million, you know, isn't a lot of money. But in the world of acquisitions and you think about the numbers that have been flying around recently, we had road for a billion USD, we had Touchland hand sanitizer over 800 million USD in this brand's only years old. But why this surprised me was because Everlane was such a big conglomerate, but the reason for only $100 million when I did a little bit of digging was that they're actually $90 million in debt. And that was tied to basically years long slump in sales. They had taken out a $25 million Gordon Brothers loan and had $65 million asset based credit line with another bank. And that came from a great Instagram account called traded VC. So suddenly the $100 million felt kind of expensive.
- [03:43]
A
Yeah, it's also their original formula that they were known for, which is this basics but better model was being replicated by high street brands, like you referenced it yourself, like cars and these other brands were really tapping into that strategy. It' you don't have that point of difference anymore. It's really, really hard to maintain strong sales and build that profit margin up.
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B
I'm really fascinated to get your thoughts on this. Do you think this is Shein's play at looking more sustainable or this is Shein's play at just buying a massive database that I assume Evelyn have.
- [04:13]
A
That's a great question. Okay. I think Shein has some major brand rehab that they need to do because, and again, maybe this is subjective because I care about sustainability, I care about natural fibers, I care about that this business is like destroying the fashion industry, but also our planet.
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B
Right.
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A
So I have to put my bias up front or to the front that I don't like Shein and what they're doing to the world. I think that brand rehab piece and why I'm bringing that in is that they need to look like they're doing more than just destroying the planet. So for me it's like a really weak attempt at trying to be like, oh, but look at all this good stuff we're doing with this brand whose origins and their whole ethos is in sustainability by design because we acquired them. Now we are also about this, like it's, it's almost like hijacking the sustainability piece.
- [05:01]
B
Yeah. I mean, it feels a bit greenwashy to me because we're looking at a brand with $90 million worth of debt. I'm willing to bet that Shein's, you know, profit and loss statement isn't an unhealthy one given the volume and the margins that they would be selling at despite the low price points. I just can't see them continuing how Everlane have been manufacturing and producing if it has been at such a loss. And I guess the question that I come back to in all of this is, does the sustainability brand in fashion get to work? Does it get to win? Or is the win when you just get the paycheck at the end?
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A
And you know, I think that's exactly what happens. Pretty dark days. And I know a lot of people were really shocked and affected by this being like. Like, is this the future of the fashion industry? Like, is sustainability not going to be something that they can even address?
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B
I certainly hope not.
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A
Sad.
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B
Yeah. Off the back of Sadzis, let's go into something a little bit happy, right?
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Happy.
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This is one of our favorite pieces of content to consume. And today we are going to be talking about Architectural Digest and the series that is Open Door.
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Oh, I cannot wait to get into this.
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Okay, we're going to get into ad house tours and all of the things in between. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. Have you ever noticed that your skin has a tendency to feel dehydrated by the end of the day? Even if you're religious with your AM and PM routines? This is such a common problem. And it turns out our schedule has something to do with it. Think about it. Between sweaty workouts, chilly temperatures, the winter sun and our obsession with the heater, our skin goes through a lot, especially when it's exposed to the elements. Thankfully, Bioderma have just released their new Hydra Bio hydroactive range. Perfect for dehydrated skin. It's a complete routine of cleansers, a serum and moisturizers that deliver immediate glow and long lasting hydration. Thanks to Bioderma's patented Aquagenium plus technology plus hero ingredients like hyaluronic acid, niacinamide and squalene. Best of all, the range is tested in everyday conditions to make sure it provides lifeproof hydration. My winter skin personally loves the sound of the Micellar powered Hydrating Jelly Cleanser and the glow boosting radiance fluid. Through busy days, cold snaps, tough workouts and late nights. Bioderma's hydrabio Hydroactive range has got you for lifeproof hydration. Find Hydra Bio at leading pharmacies and beauty retailers. Thank you so much to Bioderma for making this episode of Stylish possible. Ray I am not usually on the Architectural Digest side of TikTok.
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See, I am. I'm all over it.
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I finally landed on the side of TikTok I wanted to be on and I saw Coby Smulder's house. Did you see this?
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Yes.
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Now for those of you who might be like that name doesn't ring a bell. You may remember Robyn from How I
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Met yout Mother, an iconic character. She's like one of my favorite all time TV characters.
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B
Do you know what? Facts. Absolute facts. I completely agree. This was so funny to me. I actually became so fascinated with this house. There were so many videos. I felt like once I landed on one, they kind of kept being served me. But I then went on to AD to read the article and it was referred to as her Canadian cabin, which I did have a little chuckle about because there wasn't much cabin about it.
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A
This is one of my favorite traits of ad. When celebrities talk about their houses and they welcome you into their home, they always refer to it. And you know what? It's not just a celebrity thing, it's a rich people thing. This is my beach house. This is my mountain home.
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My farm.
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My farm.
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B
There's no like little, there's not like, you know, a chicken pen and some like sheep.
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No, no. It's signaling we. It's signaling taste, all of those things.
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B
This was a pretty spectacular house. Did you see it?
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A
It was so, so gorgeous. To set the scene, it's like this beautiful. It is kind of giving like a mountain home estate. The backdrop is like stunning snowy mountains. There's a gorgeous lake and it's got like that big sort of timber look like a house that you think would be in the mountains. But then you go inside. The detail of every room is insane. One of my favorite features are actually all of the different types of wallpaper that she space. Weirdly, one of my favorite spaces in her house is her pantry. It's like this beautiful walk in pantry. The wallpaper at the back, it's got this like sort of carnival vibe. To it. And then she's got just like, classic, old school, very millennial coded, might I add, mason jars. And she's got all her lollies and, like, different little treats and stuff in there. She's got this gorgeous, really warm green, and it's contrasted with this timber, and it just looks so chic and so welcoming. Like, I would get locked into that pantry.
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B
Yeah. I mean, this house was probably one of the most beautiful homes I've ever seen. It very much feels like a display of personality, which I loved. We know not every ad, like, welcome to my home tour is, like, giving personality. But what I loved is that she mentioned in the article how much she loved, you know, vintage and that sort of whimsical nature.
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It's not really a surprise to me that this video has gone viral.
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B
It's not surprising to me at all, because I think there are so many different personalities that you see within each room, and they all sing harmoniously together so well. I love the metals that she's used and the different stones and tiles and textures that she's played with. No two rooms look the same. And I think often, you know, we get these 82 as well. Like, it's very much, you know, that bathroom's just another variation of that bathroom. That's another variation of that bathroom. These all feel really contrasting. Like, it is very clear she's got taste, and who she's worked with is pretty phenomenal. And she was saying she's been pretty obsessed with architecture since she was a little girl. She said her childhood best friend was actually the daughter of architect Elizabeth MacKenzie, and that she always dreamed that if she built her own home, she would do it with Elizabeth.
- [10:45]
A
This is what makes Architectural Digest different, though, because the storytelling piece is so important. I also think we're so used to ad features like open doors going viral when the celebrity is really big. Like, yes, she's a household name in tv, but she's not someone who's, like, dropping into my feed all the time, like the Kardashians or the Jenners are. And I do think your point around taste is also what's made this a viral moment.
- [11:09]
B
I'm really glad you brought up taste, because that's why I actually want to talk about Architectural Digest today, because I want to talk about that intersection and relationship between celebrity, what makes taste, and how Architectural Digest can actually be used as a vehicle to signal something to us as the audience.
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A
There's so, so, so many little nooks and crannies we can get into and
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B
Here we are talking about Kobe Smolders.
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I didn't think we'd be talking about her in this episode.
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B
It just goes to show, though, how taste and home have such a direct correlation.
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A
But it's also how powerful Architectural Digest can be at pushing a celebrity back into the zeitgeist and making them relevant. I could not tell you the last time I was talking about Coby Smulders.
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It was when I was watching how I met your mother, literally.
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But what I can tell you is I think her house is fucking cool. I really enjoyed looking at it, and I want to see more. And I'm now she's on my radar.
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Why do you think homes are like that? Step above YouTube channels, TikToks, like Instagram posts, Like, we've never had more access.
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A
It's a level of intimacy. When you open your home to someone. What you're saying is, welcome to my inner sanctum. You think about that in the context of, like, when you invite your friends over and you have a dinner party, like, that is the most intimate setting that you are wanting to connect with someone. So by extension, as a consumer, I feel like I'm being welcomed into this home and they're opening the door quite literally, and they're saying, hey, AD and the rest of you, 48 million of you, welcome to my home. And the details that they focus on in these series are very, very calculated, but they are very, very personal. So this formula that they've been able to create kind of brings this level of intimacy, but then it's also this level of wealth as well that I think people are also interested in, and that intersection is, like, what people care about. It's like, the perfect formula.
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B
Yeah. I do find it fascinating, though, because don't you think it's evolved outside of, like, having the most expensive stone in your kitchen or having, like, this $60,000 couch? And it's more like this cool factor now. It's kind of like if you saw someone's outfit, right, and you complimented them on the street, and you're like, I love your jacket. There's like, plus 10 aura points for saying it was, like, $6 thrifted in Paris or that you got it at Swap, rather than going, oh, it's new season on high street in Armadale. Sorry, this is really Melbourne centric. Sydney list is the equivalent of pato. You know, it's like there's something kind of. I feel like when they're in these home tours and they're spotlighting, like, oh, like, I got this Vase in, like, this tiny little market in Paris. That's a terrible American accent. We know that. I fall in these traps. There's something that makes them appear more interesting or tasteful than if they're just like, yeah, I had a, you know, interior stylist that helped me pull this all together, and it's all brand new and straight from the showroom.
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A
Let's address the taste thing, because this is going to come up a lot in this episode. Gone are the days of the MTV Cribs. The glitz, the glam. Like, it's all about. Just seeing this is like, we want the narrative, we want the storytelling. Celebrities want to position themselves as tastemakers with Architectural Digest, and this is the platform for them to do it.
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B
Yeah. I mean, I would be very surprised to find a celebrity in the US Right now who is not telling their publicist they want an ad piece because it does something for them. The interesting thing about taste, though, is, like, essentially what we're getting to at the end is the same thing with AD versus MTV Cribs. Like, I love that you've referenced this. What a throwback. Like, hey, mtv, welcome to my crib. Ultimately, they're opening the door and inviting you into a tour of their home. What they're spotlighting and how they're spotlighting it is the only real difference here because we are still getting a peak. What do you think makes ad feel so tasteful versus something like MTV Cribs? That felt pretty tacky.
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Well, it was tacky because they also told you the price of things at
- [14:54]
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the bottom when they would, like, zoom
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in and teach us something.
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B
Yeah.
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Literally sound effects. And also, great, great user experience as a viewer, I will admit. So my tip my hat to MTV Cribs. But the difference with Architectural Digest is that, first and foremost, what they put out there, from a messaging point of view is that editorial integrity is very important to them. For this series, you cannot pay to play.
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B
Yeah.
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A
As a celebrity for Architectural Digest. So already there is an establishment of we cannot be bought. Therefore, we are going after the celebrities who we genuinely believe don't just have the nice things that cost a lot of money and can afford these things. We actually believe that they have a level of curation, a level of. It's almost like a je ne sais quoi, or they have the eye.
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B
They've got the it factor.
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A
They've got the it factor, and that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to position the celebrities as. They're not just celebrities. They're tastemakers.
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B
Can I ask you a question then? Because what fascinates me is that very rarely have any of them designed these homes or shopped any of it. Like, it's fascinating to me. It's like when people go, oh, she's the best dressed celebrity. Or like her taste is impeccable. Well, it might be, but she's also got a full time stylist whose taste is impeccable, helping inform her impeccable taste. Do you know what I mean? It's kind of like it comes from the top of the ladder.
- [16:09]
A
Well, this is where the brand piece comes in and the, you know, the image that they're trying to convey, I think they're trying to convey themselves as tastemakers. But the reality of it is I see this as borrowed taste. Because we know there are a list of industry experts that are supporting them in styling, designing, building their homes, you know, when they open the series. So I'll use Kendall Jenner as an example. They will make a direct reference to the team. And when I say team, either the interior designer or the architect that they're working with on that, they will only have an initial intro where they would feature that person and then maybe sporadically, they will reference them throughout the episode. However, the positioning of it throughout the entire episode is always, I pick this, this piece really resonated with me. I, I, I, me, me, me. And I get that because no offence, if I'm a general consumer, I don't really care about the person behind the scenes because they're not what's sticky. That's not why 48 million people are watching this video. And I know that's a shitty thing to say. No, but that is the star power is with the celebrity.
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B
Yeah, I'm really glad you referenced it. Right. And Kendall Jenner, I feel like it's gonna get brought up a lot, but I, I can't help but feel like there was an algorithm takeover of the Montana house. Her most recent ad sort of coverage, that was like, she has such great taste and she's, you know, such a tastemaker and, you know, at this world. And I always knew she was the coolest Kardashian Jenner. I don't know, there was like this thing that suddenly her taste was like so prolific. And then we were talking about her fashion in adjacency to that as well.
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A
Yeah, Kendall Jenner is a really good example because she's actually done a few ad features. I believe she's done three in total. Her first ever one being in 2020. And this was in Bang Smack Covid. And even then when I would say the climate was pretty rough in terms of, like, Internet sentiment and how particularly like, showing off your wealth was received, that initial feature did do quite well and majority of people were, like, quite surprised. There is this element of surprise where people go, huh? I didn't think she would have as much taste or I didn't think she'd be so eclectic or, wow, her home actually looks like a home, not a house.
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B
I mean, probably a good comparison point of that is that people might have been expecting, like, a Kim Kardashian, Kanye west style home where it was like, no one looked like they lived there, taps weren't visible. You know, like, it's such a contrast to, I guess, the world. We've been introduced through her siblings.
- [18:29]
A
Yeah, but it's so deliberate and it's so intentional. And someone like Kendall as well, obviously she would have sat down with her team and been like, what is the narrative we're trying to tell here? Like, how do we want people to be perceived? And I think with Kendall, one thing I would say even Bird's eyeing it outside of Architectural Digest in that world, how she likes to position herself on social media and how she shows up in the press is very much like, I'm a horse girl. I'm very relatable. I'm always with my friends. Like, downtime is very important to me. And that is like a consistent and common thread throughout any feature that she does and in her Architectural Digest feature, and, you know, the fact that she's calling it her mountain home by design, that is deeply out of touch and feels very unattainable. However, you then step into this place and it has a sense of warmth and has a sense of connection that is honestly quite impressive. And she always, always, always referenced her friends and this being a sanctuary in a place where she can connect, and that is very deliberate. And I think it's worked wonders for her because it's made her feel more relatable, but it's also. It's almost like separated her from her siblings.
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B
It's interesting for me at this point around relatability because I think you said it so well when you were like, my mountain home. Like, it's giving. Oh, the farm and the beach house. You know, it's like every rich kid that, like, someone's got one friend that's like just talking about six different properties.
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A
The subtle signals, the subtle of wealth,
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B
the not so subtle signals of wealth. But I think on this one, like, why I'm so intrigued by this is that you've used the word relatability in relation to something that is such a not so silent signal of wealth. Why do you think even in that example of that peak Covid era, we're so comfortable with such, I'm going to call them, obnoxious displays of luxury because they are like, even if the home does feel warm and comfortable and inviting, like, we're still ultimately talking about 20, 30, $40 million homes.
- [20:15]
A
I see it as the adult version of show and tell. Like, this is literally what we did as children, but there's, like, a more adult version. It's also this interesting intersection of. It feels really out of touch, and it feels, like, so unattainable, but then it's also aspirational. I watch these videos and I think, fuck, this is sick.
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B
I want this.
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A
Like, there is a fire in my belly that's like, work harder. Like, work harder. I think Emma Chamberlain's a really good example of a celebrity that, in my opinion, probably her video shouldn't have landed. It had all the things for the formula to make it, like, really feel unattainable. And I think it has a lot to do with timing. So Emma Chamberlain's Architectural Digest video dropped in gonna. I'm gonna say almost in the thick of COVID as well. So similar to Kendall Jenner. She's born in 2001. She's very young. So by design, you would assume a young person, someone her age and her audience who are also really young, should find it, you know, pretty on the nose that, like, home ownership has become something that she has and is successful. But then also, you put that on the scale of, like, she's owning this mega mansion in la, she's walking through it, and it's like these incredible interiors that should feel out of touch to young people. But instead, it creates this fantasy and this idea that they maybe could aspire to have something similar to Emma Chamberlain because she is so close in age to them. I don't know. Does that make sense?
- [21:42]
B
It's like, celebrities, they're just like us.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I do. I do think the age thing is interesting. And I think maybe it's this idea that because they've created these worlds and sanctums and it feels like you're being allowed in, you're, like, given permission, that there is an element of aspiration that doesn't feel so far away because they suddenly don't feel so far away. Like, the access to them almost enables that aspiration. Does that make sense?
- [22:08]
A
Yeah, I do think there are some situations though where it doesn't work. Said there are. For those of you who don't know, there is an Architectural Digest example that has been absolutely rinsed, which is the DJ Zeds and this. To be honest, it worked for Architectural Digest because it has over 48 million views. So even the shit ones typically work when you look at the numbers. It's just that the sentiment online was that it this was one of the worst home tours that they had seen. The backlash was mainly centered around one why is he getting a home? Because by all accounts they didn't really classify him as worthy. And that's an interesting piece to me. Architectural Digest is so high value to a consumer in terms of being a prestige publication is that even a celebrity is not worthy to be featured in Architectural Digest. So in this video they take him around his home. It's very clinical, it's very just, just not a lot going on.
- [23:03]
B
It was giving. Bachelor pad, Bachy pad Bach you've had. I'm not talking like it's shaken minimal, Christian Gray's pad. I'm talking like there was a custom skittle machine, like a Lego wall. It was like all the things he maybe dreamt about having in his childhood. He was like, I've got adult money, I can do adult things now.
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A
I honestly, it was what I expected a DJ's house to look like. It was giving. I don't live here for six months of the year. The other six I'm doing residency in Vegas or I'm in Ibiza.
- [23:29]
B
So yeah, it was also giving. The fellas are going to love this. But honestly, also like it's a to D lister of celebrity. It really does matter a lot how people perceive that celebrity or where they are in the zeitgeist at that time. All right, I want to deepen why it works so well for celebrity brands and can be a little bit of like a make or break for personal brand. But let's get into that right after a word from today's sponsor. Around about now, our skin starts to feel the effects of the changing weather. Suddenly it's a little dull, a little dry and our skincare just isn't cutting it anymore. If you can relate, you should try Bioderma's new Hydra Bio hydroactive range. Formulated with hydration boosting ingredients. The range of cleansers, a serum and moisturizers deliver immediate glow and long lasting hydration even through temperature changes, UV exposure, exercise and stress. For lifeproof hydration, find Bioderma's new Hydrobio Hydroactive range at leading pharmacies and beauty retailers. Thank you so much to Bioderma for making this episode of Stylish possible.
- [24:34]
A
The reason why this is good for celebrity brand is because it's the perfect amalgamation of clout and like PR for celebs. It's like they know the Architectural Digest open door feature is going to be the thing that puts them in the conversation online. I would go as far to say, I don't think celebrities are saying to their PR team anymore, I want to be on the September issue of Vogue. I don't think they see that as culturally relevant anymore. I think they're saying, I want an open door feature in ad.
- [25:07]
B
Drop the mic. That is a big call. You know, I just said go by it.
- [25:11]
A
I stand by it. Because think about the exposure. Right? Okay, let's actually get into the weeds numbers wise. We have rattled off some serious numbers in terms of the exposure. Exposure and the awareness. Zeds was so bad, it still got 48 million views and he bombed in terms of like the relevancy and what people were talking about. They were still talking about it, though.
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B
You're giving major, no publicity is bad publicity vibes here.
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A
All I'm saying is in a world of media and you've got magazines and you've got digital. If I was a celebrity and I wanted to be culturally relevant, I'm going to take the 48 million views over the niche. I understand what you're saying. There is a legacy piece with the Vogue September cover.
- [25:47]
B
Did you just go to call Vogue me?
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A
Can I challenge you on that? Because I do think with the average person, you're looking at that from the perspective of someone who works in the industry. I don't think the average person knows or cares about what the currency of a September issue of Vogue is.
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B
Fair challenge. I would argue though, the social currency. Living in the US thinking about all of like going to a major city and all of the magazine like that is sitting out the front of the little corner stores.
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A
How many are they selling? How many magazine sales are on the decline? I know you love Mags, Mads, but digital media is trumping and I am. You hate me right now.
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B
I see you. I hear you. I know it's the truth. As we sit here on a digital
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A
production ourselves, we little live exercise. You could get up a lot. No, actually, you know what? After this episode, I'm going to do a live search of what the September announcement of Vogue last year got in terms of social reach. And I want to compare that to the largest, best performing ad episode. I want to bring it back to the relatability piece as well. Because in a world like today's, our sentiment towards celebrities is probably the worst it's ever been, I would say, for a really long time. People are annoyed by celebrities. They're constantly feeling like they're out of touch. They constantly feel like they're not actually, you know, there's no connection to the average person. Right. Because Architectural Digestion Open Door gives people an opportunity to see celebrities in a more relaxed setting, quite physically their home. And like what you touched on earlier, it just makes them feel more relatable. So I think if you're a celebrity who's wanting to deepen that connection with an audience, I think it's a really, really smart way. Even if it is manufactured, because we know it is, it's a really smart way to make them feel like normal people.
- [27:35]
B
I'm really glad you brought up the Vogue reference, because I do think this is why the Vogue 73 questions worked so well. Because it was almost like an amalgamation of Vogue and ads. Open the door. Because we're in their home, we're asking them all these questions, we're finding out these funny things. We know what their dream quarter is. All of a sudden, we know what they like to eat. And I think that's what AD has captured so perfectly, is getting them in this space, getting them to run through their daily routines. Suddenly when they're talking about their bar cart, they're telling you about how their friends come over. Like, there is this piece where it feels like there's a new little door unlocked. An insight into their world that maybe we don't get, despite all of the access we have to them right now.
- [28:14]
A
Yeah, it's definitely a formula and a format that a lot of publications are trying to replicate. Like, the Vogue 73 questions is a great reference. I also, I would go as far to say Vogue in general. They have their whole Vogue Living spread, but a lot of their executions across the publication in a digital setting are very, very similar. Interestingly, they both have the same parent company. Conde Nast owns both of them.
- [28:37]
B
Yeah.
- [28:38]
A
So Conde Nast is just getting it all.
- [28:40]
B
They're like, yeah, yeah, we'll divvy up who gets covers and who's getting an eight. Open Door Ray. I find it really funny. I always think a lot about Gwyneth Paltrow.
- [28:48]
A
She's.
- [28:48]
B
She's a little bit of my Roman Empire, I believe, with Gwyneth. And I know people love to hate her and I can't help but love her.
- [28:55]
A
She's in your past basket.
- [28:56]
B
She's totally in my past basket. She's probably at the top of it. But I think what's fascinating about this is, like, there's also a business play here as well. Gwyneth Paltrow, founder of goop, which has really eclipsed beyond the original digital publication that it started as. We've now got GOOP as a, you know, cosmetics, body care, wellness brand. We've got GOOP Kitchen. And I think a lot about that ad piece that she did most recently, like, so much time and effort and energy was sort of centered around the kitchen being the center of her home and like, it being this really beautiful place and her garden. And I'm like, these are also beautiful. Benefiting both her personal brand, which is such a strong extension of these big businesses.
- [29:38]
A
Now, I don't know where her business and her personal brand starts or finishes. I would say that they are one.
- [29:45]
B
Yeah, I don't think they're looking to disconnect them either. I think something like AD is like, how does this also help GOOP Kitchen and Group, the cosmetics brand?
- [29:53]
A
So I am really curious about how much money AD do make from these features. I did a bit of digging. They put a lot of money in hiring photographers, working with designers. And because it's not a pay to play feature, so celebrities are not paying their way into these features. I'm like, huh, okay, how are they making money? I went on a few of the features that were extensions of the YouTube videos. Affiliates are huge. Lots and lots of affiliate links are being incorporated into these articles and into these features.
- [30:22]
B
Hello, Shop Mine. Ltk.
- [30:24]
A
Yeah, I think there's also another just like generic one. I know that Conde Nast is investing heavily into their own affiliates business.
- [30:31]
B
Yes.
- [30:32]
A
Because they have so many publications that they can obviously tap into. That makes so much sense. But the YouTube phase would be through the roof as well. So the advertising fees that they'd be gaining from YouTube, I would say if you're hitting numbers like 48 million on a video, I mean, gagged. I'm being pervy. I've seen the videos, I've seen the houses. Now I want to know how much
- [30:50]
B
is all this stuff cost you making? And I don't care how much the house fit out cost. I want to know how much you're making a day, literally.
- [30:57]
A
I think it would be remiss of us to not acknowledge as well that Architectural Digest has really jumped on this at a time. Honestly, I'd say it was before we actually knew that this was the content we were obsessed with. So the timing of the series was released in 2017. I feel like at this time there was a huge shift away from home renovation content, you know, flipping houses, and instead it moved and transcended into this space of, like, luxury homes. You know, all of these shows, like selling Sunset Luxe, listing the world's most Extraordinary Homes on BBC, they all came out from 2017 through till 2021. I also think it's interesting that that coincided with the timing of COVID I think there was a really, really strong craving sense of escape. Yeah. And I say that as someone who this was the content I was consuming during COVID locked in my shoebox home.
- [31:49]
B
Also, it was such a, like, transformative period, wasn't it? Because we've kind of gone from these shows which were all centered around working really, really hard, doing it on shoestring budgets, it being really tough. And then that escapism is now these, like, luxury, expensive, completely finished within an inch of their life homes. We kind of moved away from wanting to see, like, how the sausage was made to, like, seeing this perfect, polished house worth, like $50 million and what is just, like, aspirational. And we're seeing that in all the content that comes out now, not only from AD but from those shows you're speaking to as well.
- [32:24]
A
We've flipped the do, don't tell on its head. It's now tell, don't do, don't show me.
- [32:29]
B
I don't want to know.
- [32:29]
A
Cut the show. Just tell.
- [32:31]
B
That's all for this episode of Stylish. I will not be stopping watching AD anytime soon. This is one of my favorite pieces of content to consume.
- [32:39]
A
This was one of my favorite episodes to research because basically I just got to go back in the archives and watch all my favorite episodes. Maybe we'll include a bit of a carousel of our favorite episodes of Architectural Digest so you guys can go and watch them and indulge in escape.
- [32:51]
B
Yeah. Get whiz to 48 million and one views, guys.
- [32:55]
A
As always, feel free to email style-ishameless media.com or slide into our DMS over at Stylish Pod to keep chatting with us. And remember, I keep asking this the last few weeks, but don't forget to leave a review on whatever podcast app you're consuming this podcast. It really helps with discovery for Stylish, and we're keen to get in as many ears as possible so that little act of kindness and support will go a long way. Big thanks to our show's production team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt, and senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke. And you guys don't know or can't see this, but we also have the wonderful Eilish Gilligan in the room with us. First time for everything, helping us on all things stylish. So thanks so much for being here, Eilish, and thank you, Mads.
- [33:35]
B
Thank you, Ray, and thank you, Ad, for giving us such good content to talk about. We'll see you on Wednesday. See you Wednesday.
- [33:47]
A
This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.