Finally! People are saying what they actually think!

Summary

Style-ish – "Finally! People are saying what they actually think!"

Podcast Date: April 23, 2026
Host: Rhiannon Joyce (A), Chief Commercial Officer, Shameless Media
Guest Co-Host: Priya McPherson (C), Founder/Director Sage Avenue
Guest Contributor: Zara Wong (D), Screenshot This (via clips)

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Rhiannon Joyce and guest co-host Priya McPherson dive deep into how Substack is disrupting the traditional media and fashion content landscape. They explore what’s behind the rise of the platform, how it’s empowering writers, and what brands need to know before rushing onto Substack. The conversation blends personal anecdotes, listener survey data, and insights from writer Zara Wong to unpack how the democratization of content is changing careers, communities, and creative industries.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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The Brand Names Crisis (01:17 – 03:39)

• Brand Naming Challenges:
  Rhiannon introduces a "word of the week" segment centered on the increasing complexity and unpronounceability of modern brand names, inspired by a piece in The Cut.

  • “Brand names are getting out of control… it's how hard it is to pronounce certain brand names or digest…how do you spell that name?”
    — Rhiannon [01:24]
  • Example: Sydney Sweeney’s brand, Siren – spelled “SYRN” [02:20]
  • Discussion on trademark laws, Instagram handles, and why brands are forced into strange spellings.
  • Embarrassment & Accessibility: Both hosts agree confusing names make it harder for consumers to share brands organically, and can feel alienating.

• Quote:
  “If I can't pronounce a brand name, I immediately seize up and I'm like, oh, my God, this is so embarrassing.”
  — Rhiannon [03:20]

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The Substack Disruption: Empowering Writers & Niche Content (03:43 – 07:46)

• Why Substack Matters:
  Substack just made its first regional hire for Australia & New Zealand, confirming its increasing impact.

  • Rhiannon frames Substack as a way for writers to bypass traditional media gatekeeping and build independent revenue streams.
  • With staff writing in-house, freelance media jobs are dwindling: “Where are these writers now going…how are they creating income? That’s where I feel like Substack has filled this gap.” [05:27]

• Industry Insight:
  Farrah Storr, International Head of Substack (quote read by Rhiannon [05:53]):

  • “Australia and New Zealand have a long history of producing some of the world’s best writers, creatives and thinkers... the region has suffered some of the same cultural cuts... where does talent go when there’s no longer an institutional infrastructure to support them? We hope they’ll come to Substack and be paid directly by the people who love their work so they can continue that work.”

• Niche Content Finds a Home:
  Substack supports writing that mainstream media overlooks: “Substack is allowing and breeding a space for authentic LED content over algorithm LED content.”
  — Priya [07:23]

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Listener Survey: Substack Adoption & Habits (08:56 – 12:02)

• Surprising Stats:
  Only 39% of Stylish’s listeners use Substack; most have started using it only in the last 1–2 years.

  • Rhiannon points out Substack is often confused with general newsletters.
  • Adoption is recent: “Substack has only just become cool, even though it's been founded for so long.” – Priya [11:12]

• Why People Like Substack:

  • Opt-in, curated content rather than “algorithmic” exposure
  • Willingness to pay for quality and to support independent voices
  • Multi-format: text, video, and podcasts now available

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What Makes Substack Different: Depth, Attention & Trust (12:06 – 16:49)

• Long-Form & Thoughtful Conversation:

  • Priya: “When I go there, I expect to be challenged, hear new ideas, and think more deeply than on other platforms.” [12:47]
  • Paying for content encourages writers to be bolder, more open, less reliant on viral/social metrics [13:27]
  • Example: Becca Bloom’s tagline: “Using this as a place to say the things I can't say out loud.” [14:01]

• Magazine Vibes, No Doomscrolling:

  • Substack compared to “old magazine days,” as “a central place to anchor all of that and it be the source of truth.”
    — Rhiannon [23:16]

• (Some) Ad Transparency Issues:
  While readers love the “no ads” experience, the hosts debate about subtle advertising:

  • Rhiannon argues writers could be more upfront about affiliate income and brand invitations.
  • Priya: “You can just unsubscribe… you can consciously choose to stop reading.” [16:49]
  • Rhiannon: “If that disclosure is not happening and you’re getting a kickback… there needs to be a little bit of transparency around that.” [17:00]

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Behind the Scenes: Zara Wong’s Substack Experience (20:47 – 25:28)

• Direct from Zara Wong: (via audio clip)

  • Substack is more intimate than social media; readers are closer, more engaged, and open rates are “amazing.” [20:50–22:09]
  • Easier to provide recommendations than on Instagram; the newsletter format keeps links and content “sticky.”

• Building Personal Brand:
  Rhiannon and Priya discuss how writers like Zara and others now build personal brands through Substack, showing expertise and opinion in a single, trackable space.

  • “There aren't a lot of writers that exist nowadays or freelance writers who don't have a personal brand.”
    — Rhiannon [24:10]

• More Nuanced, Less Cancel Culture:
  Substack allows for longer explanations and more context, which could help reduce knee-jerk "cancel culture":
  “You’re not actually gonna assume they've made it for this. You're gonna understand. Okay, maybe you might not still agree with it, but you can understand their thought process behind making a decision.”
  — Priya [25:30]

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The Brand Rush to Substack: What Works, What Doesn’t (26:04 – 31:31)

• Brands Eyeing Substack's Success:
  Both hosts notice brands are eager to get onto Substack, but warn that it’s not suited to just plugging products.

  • Zara Wong’s advice (clip):
    “The brands that are on Substack… I do think they're well aware of what the platform is like. I think where it can be confusing… is when brands throw something up… that they are just putting up on Instagram and TikTok… there’s a particular kind of tone of voice that readers resonate with. There are some that are doing it really well… Others… it's very corporate… it doesn't feel like you're reading a well written newsletter that is intimate.” [26:42–27:46]

  • Best Practices:

    • Content must be platform-specific, with a unique, genuine editorial voice.
    • Don’t treat Substack as a generic email marketing tool.
    • Authentic content means education, behind-the-scenes stories, and curatorial insights rather than product pushing.

  • Quote:
    “Branded content will never be as authentic as real editorial content because consumer goods brands don’t have the luxury of operating like a media company or publication, it's a completely different business model. So if you’re going at it from a commercial point of view, see you later, it's not going to work.”
    — Jess Egart, Brand Person, quoted by Rhiannon [31:14]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Substack’s community & honesty:
  “Using this as a place to say the things I can't say out loud.”
  — Becca Bloom (quoted by Rhiannon) [14:01]

• On the brand arms race:
  “The community hijacking from brands feels like it's just on steroids at the moment.”
  — Rhiannon [28:50]

• On building personal authority:
  “...Substack is also a way for her to build her personal brand…show people that she is an authority.”
  — Rhiannon [24:11]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Brand Naming Crisis: 01:17–03:39
• Substack’s Disruption & Opportunity: 03:43–07:46
• Listener Survey on Substack Adoption: 08:56–12:02
• Substack vs. Newsletters & Consumption Habits: 12:02–16:49
• Ad/Affiliate Transparency on Substack: 14:46–17:18
• Zara Wong’s Substack Experience: 20:47–25:28
• Brands on Substack: Best & Worst Practices: 26:04–31:21

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Final Thoughts & Tone

• The conversation is lively, direct, and filled with real-world perspectives from women in media, writing, and brand strategy.
• There’s a strong focus on the value of authenticity, community, and honesty—both in writing and in brand building.
• Substack’s future: Both hosts and Zara Wong are excited to see Substack’s influence grow in Australia, especially as it provides a home for niche, passionate voices.

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For listeners who missed the episode:
This was a masterclass in why Substack is resonating with both writers and readers—and a warning for brands not to just jump on the bandwagon without a thoughtful, value-driven approach. Rhiannon and Priya blend personal insights, industry data, and on-the-ground examples to paint a picture of the evolving media landscape—where saying what you really think is finally getting the attention (and the platform) it deserves.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

This episode of Stylish is brought to you by the devil wears Prada. 2. Miranda, Andy, Emily and Nigel returned to the sleek offices of Runway magazine from April 30, only in cinemas. Hello, guys.

[A]

Happy Friday. I'm Rhiannon Joyce, chief commercial officer at Shameless Media, and today I'm joined by our new co host who is covering Mads today, Priya McPherson.

[C]

Hello. Hello, everybody.

[A]

For those of you who don't know, Priya is the founder and director of fashion label Sage Avenue, and we adore having her on the fortnightly Friday episode.

[B]

Thank you, Priya, for being here.

[C]

Hello, everybody. I love, love, love being here. And happy Friday to you all guys.

[A]

You know that this is the corner of Stylish that focuses more on brand campaigns and career stories. And today we have decided to focus on the brand side of things and explore something that's been on my mind quite a bit. I know your mind. Prayer. And it's coming up a lot in the Shameless Media office, which is. Which is how much substack has disrupted the media industry. I have a lot to say, as always, and you do, too. Big gap is in here. Before we get into it, let's jump into Word of the week. This week, it's my word.

[C]

Passing the baton to you, Ray.

[B]

Hand it over.

[A]

I'm ready. Doing my thing that I always do. I've got two words.

[C]

Fabulous. Love it. I like to say it in real time. Okay, two words.

[A]

I want to talk about brand names. Recently, I read a piece in the Cut titled Brand Names are in Crisis. And it was actually a conversation I was having with co founders of Shameless Media and friends of mine, Michelle Andrews and Zara McDonald, about how brand names are getting out of control. And it was really interesting because when we were having this conversation, we were reflecting on how hard it is to pronounce certain brand names or digest how this. How does it. How do you spell that name?

[C]

Oh, yeah, Battle of mine. Every time when I get a top and I can't pronounce it back, I really struggle. I'm like, why do you do this to me?

[A]

Well, this is the thing. What is the why behind this being a problem? The cut piece goes deep on this and explains that there are actually some really systemic issues around™ the US that is causing this. Apparently, there is a huge backlog in trademarking, but also access to Instagram handles. One brand that was front of mind for me was Sydney Sweeney's brand Siren.

[C]

How is it spelled?

[A]

How do you think it would be spelled?

[C]

S I, R, E, N. No.

[A]

So it's S Y, R, N. Oh, my God. I think what was really interesting in this piece is the cut declared that there was almost like this war on the dictionary to score, like, a very coveted domain name or try and find something that's very unique. So, yeah, that is, like, what is consuming my brain right now is how the names are just getting out of control.

[C]

I absolutely love it and feels very topical because today I'm wearing a brand that I can't pronounce. What is it? And the amount of times I've been asked this morning, where is this top from? And I go to spell it because I feel like I can't do it justice if I don't know how to pronounce it. But it's F O Y R E. How would you pronounce that?

[A]

F O, Y R E. Foyer, foyer, foyer.

[C]

I just go shop. F O Y, R, E. Okay. But I do find it hard. I find it hard because I'm like, it should be easy to then share with someone who I've met at a coffee shop and be like, oh, follow them. This is their name. And then if they're the barista, they're gonna have to keep thinking about how I've spelled the name, and then how are they gonna actually go to write it in and look for it?

[A]

It also makes you feel, like, a little embarrassed.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I feel this. If I can't pronounce a brand name, I immediately seize up and I'm like, oh, my God, this is so embarrassing. And it also, for some reason, might give this indication that I don't actually care about the brand, or I'm not, you know, super savvy when it comes to fashion, but that's not the case. Sometimes it actually is just hard.

[C]

It's really not. And as you said, it's. It's actually a byproduct of trademark law.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Instagram at the moment, which is just. It's frustrating. It's making us look silly, isn't it?

[A]

It's making it hard for the brand founders, but it's also making us look silly. So, yeah, there is some rationale behind that. So read that piece from the card if you are interested in that. Like me, I love it. As I said, guys, we are here today to talk about Substack. It does really feel like Substack is having a moment and really disrupting the media landscape. The reason why I think this convers super relevant right now is Substack have actually just hired their first role in Australia. So this is their first regional hire that will cover Aus and New Zealand. Mumbrella actually reported in December 2025 that the role will primarily focus on building awareness of the Substack brand, but also include hiring a local team, onboarding new writers or influential creators. And I say that in inverted commas and helping them build successful subscription businesses and vibrant communities on Substack. So that was based off the job advertisement that went up beyond the head. There is a bit more as to why I care about this, and this is very much anchored in being someone who works in the media industry and seeing the democratization of content and how writers have been able to, you know, take control and build their own revenue streams without having to depend on traditional media outlets the likes of Vogue, the Age, the afr, you know, these traditional media outlets who historically have really lent on freelancers and lent on writers to be able to contribute to their content. And it feels like those jobs are few and far between. And I actually spoke to Kate, who is our senior podcast producer, who helps us build our research out for these episodes. And Kate is a writer and was speaking to me about how she herself has experienced that the opportunities are few and far between. A lot of those jobs are now being managed in house and, you know, editors are now being the ones who are responsible for a lot of the writing. So the actual scope of work has reduced for freelancers, which makes me ask the question, where are these writers now going and how are they creating income for themselves? And that. That's where I feel like Substack has filled this gap. What's your take on that?

[C]

I as you know, and when we brought up this topic, I'm an avid Substack reader for journalists at the moment, with their jobs reducing, it allows them a space to be independent. Journalists think it is a marriage that is so perfectly timed.

[A]

Yeah, it's putting the power in their hands. It's giving them revenue opportunities outside the four walls of traditional media. I actually spoke to Farrah Storr, who is the head of Substacks Internationally. She's based in the uk. She has a huge background in mag. She actually worked Sydney for a few magazines as well. And Farah actually gave me a quote talking to the why behind Australia being a primary market that they want to focus on. Farah said this Australia and New Zealand have a long history of producing some of the world's best writers, creatives and thinkers. So it's only natural that we would make a dedicated push into this market. But we also know that the region has suffered some of the same cultural cuts, especially in publishing, that have also affected the UK and Europe. So where does talent go when there's no longer an institutional infrastructure to support them? We hope they'll come to Substack and be paid directly by the people who love their work so they can continue that work.

[C]

I love it. You know what? Immediately I take from that a key point is it's a place and it's a passion. It's filled with a passion and they see the value, but they also allow a space for passion. They're being like, okay, we know you've suffered, we can see you, we hear you. Let us help you.

[A]

I'm really glad you brought up the passion piece because for me, subsack is also a place where niche content thrives. A lot of niche content cannot live on mainstream media outlets. The reality of it is when you're pitching a story. And again, Kate was talking to me about this. As someone who has avidly had to pitch for work to different media companies, a lot of the time the niche content won't make it on the pages. It's the content that will drive clicks, it will drive revenue. So by design, that is to serve a commercial model, not passion.

[C]

Something that really stood out in my research. Backs off what you are saying exactly here is before Substack, journalists, creatives, writers were at the mercy of these institutions. They had to go and get approval. Was it rejected? Was it not? And then of course they're thinking about, okay, what will get the most reach? Algorithm. And so Substack is allowing and breeding a space for authentic LED content over algorithm LED content.

[A]

And we can talk more about that right after a word from today's sponsor.

[B]

There are a few movies that have defined our generation quite like the Devil Wears Prada. It's inspired countless memes and careers and made so many of us fall head over heels in love with fashion.

[A]

Fashion.

[B]

So when it was announced they were making a sequel, almost 20 years later, all we heard was Miranda Priestley's voice saying, everybody wants this and we do. The Devil wears Prada 2 is shaping up to be another culture defining moment and the social event of the year. The characters, the fashion, the hilarious one liners, it's got everything we love about the original and so much more. If you're yet to see the trailer, let me set the scene. The film brings together the same cast in their iconic roles, from Miranda to Andy, Emily to Nigel, as well as a new crop of characters. Of course, we're returning to the shiny offices of Runway magazine. But O so much has changed. Yep, this is one of those films you need to see on the big screen with your most fun girlfriends. Luckily, it hits cinemas on April 30 and I cannot wait. My tickets are already booked. A huge thank you to The Devil Wears Prada 2 for making this episode of Stylish possible possible.

[A]

So a few weeks ago, we actually asked the Stylish community a few questions around their content consumption on Substack. What was really interesting is that we actually found out that 39% of you consume content on Substack. So that is less. Obviously, that is less than half of the audience. I do think it's slightly lower than what I thought. What did you think of that, Priya?

[C]

I agree. I would assume that the listeners of Stylish and the wider Shameless Media Group would relate really, really well to Substack.

[A]

Why do you think that?

[C]

I just feel as though this podcast and along with all the other podcasts on the Shameless Media Group, share value, share vulnerability, share consistency, and have a similar personal tone. Does that make sense? So each podcast has their own personal tone. I feel like that is exactly perfect for Substack. And so I feel as though the people who listen to us come to us for a specific point of view and I feel as though they would go to Substack for an in depth point of view as well.

[A]

First of all, I love you for saying second of all, we do have newsletters form part of our offering. I think the average person, well, I know that a lot of our listeners are subscribed and broadly speaking, across all of our podcast pillars, a majority of them do have a newsletter arm that we drop weekly. And that's a touch point with our community. I think there is a differentiation between newsletter and Substack. So when we're explicitly asking the community, are you on Substack? They're thinking specifically that I know a lot of Substack users also have that newsletter drop into inboxes weekly as well. That's not what we do. So we're not on Substack. If we were to ask a broader question, like, are you subscribed to newsletters? I feel like that number would have been bigger. I think specifically because we've gone with that substack angle. That's why it's a bit smaller than what you initially thought.

[C]

Yeah, I find that really interesting.

[A]

One thing I want to come back to though, is it feels like it's a recent habit that people are introducing into their content consumption. We Actually asked those who did say that they use Substack how long they've been using it for. 34.8% said the last one to two years, and 20.2% said a few months, 16.9 said one year, 15.7 said two to three years, and 6.7 said three to four and 5.6 said four to five years. So when you look at that theme, it means that most recently people are starting to adopt substack into their content. Historically, there's not that many early adopters.

[C]

These results ring really true to me. I think that Substack has only just become cool, even though it's been founded for so long. Do you agree?

[A]

Yes, I do agree. When you deepen the why, I think it's because a lot of the content we consume is not by choice. We are overexposed on social media, particularly TikTok and Instagram, where we are not opting into this. Substack is a place where you can choose to opt into the content. You're choosing to curate the content that you want to read, listen and watch. Because now they do have video capabilities and there are podcasts that exist in this platform as well. So, you know, it's not even just a newsletter that you're getting exposed to. I think there is also more of an appetite for people who can afford it to be paying for content because they want to pay for the content, they want to curate it in a way where it's this is what I want to read, see and watch.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And that's the place that they can do it.

[C]

Yes. On an intellectual level too.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Right. And how you can be more analytical and critical about your perspectives and share it with others. Because as we know, Substack is also a space where you can comment and engage. One thing that I also thought was really interesting, and what we did ask the audience as well, is what they liked about Substack compared to other platforms. So the first one that stood out was long form content. And you're supporting writers directly.

[A]

Well, that's interesting because we spoke a lot up top about the democratization for writers being in the industry. I feel that quite passionately I want to support independent writers. I want to make sure that the money that I'm paying for this subscription is going directly to them. Yes. Substack takes 10%, but in comparison to me paying a media conglomerate, it feels good knowing that that is going into this writer's pocket.

[C]

Pocket, exactly right. Second one that stood out was feels like more in depth analysis. It gets my brain working. And when I go there, I expect to be challenged, hear new ideas and think more deeply than on other platforms.

[A]

Okay, I want to stop you there because my take on this is naturally when you pop things behind a paywall and a lot of the content on Substack you do have to pay for. A lot of writers do offer free content, but by design, for you to access this content, you have to pay for it. And the in depth analysis point is really interesting because I feel that substack is a place where people can share their thoughts more freely than what they can on social media without feeling like they're going to get backlash.

[C]

Yes, actually when I was researching, I looked up on TikTok and Spotify because I always like to listen to some podcasts when I'm researching all of them and especially the influencers that were speaking about it were saying, I've never spoken this openly but I wanted to give it a try. Here's my substack and I think exactly what you are saying. It allows people to share more openly and deeply and you can be challenged by their ideas as well.

[A]

That's also how the writers are showing up on the platform though. So I'm a subscriber to Becca Bloom substack and I love it because she's a straight talker, but in her bio she actually has the tagline using this as a place to say the things I can't say out loud.

[C]

If that isn't what Substack is, I don't know what is. Okay, next one that stood out to us was it doesn't feel like I'm doom scrolling, but actually giving the pieces I'm reading my full attention like I used to before Instagram and TikTok existed. I feel like substack is kind of like you're back in the magazine days. I feel like I'm opening a magazine and it's fun and I don't have to doom scroll and just switching off. I'm reading consciously and intently and I'm looking at the images because on substack you can pop images, you can add little photos so you can make it as aesthetic as you want. Substack takes you back to the old magazine days.

[A]

It's almost like mood boarding and a way for you to find creativity, build your own identity without feeling the pressure of having to actually contribute as well, which I think happens a lot on social media. I'm going to round out the last one because this sits in the ad category. So I feel like I've got a Bit more to say on this.

[C]

Let's go.

[A]

One of our listeners wrote no ads feels like a breath of fresh air and has a wholesomeness that other platforms just don't have. I mean, it goes without saying we are inundated with ads across all platforms and the reality of it is our attention is so diverted. I do want to flag though, one thing that I have noticed, having subscribed to a few substacks over the last 18 months, there are ads on the platform.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

How the ads show up are very different. A lot of writers use affiliate links as a way for them to generate passive revenue. And that's not as obvious as a banner ad or maybe a meta ad that pops up or a TikTok Spark ad or even an influencer promoting a product. But the ads are absolutely there. It just feels more passive.

[C]

It feels more intertwined and natural. Doesn't feel like you're being thrown an ad and so somebody isn't writing a piece of content where you can tell that it's actually just for an ad. It still feels really natural and it still feels like you are connecting with the individual. But there is a paid element, an ad element to it does. Am I making sense when I.

[A]

You're making sense, but what you're also making me think out loud. And I want to say this because my gripe with that is sometimes I don't think substackers are actually transparent about the ads that are embedded into their content. And a couple of times, and maybe this is because I'm in the industry and I'm really, really receptive to ads and I feel like I can tell something's in the ad, even if it doesn't say hashtag ad or even if it's a piece of content that's promoting, you know, a specific brand. I am quite skeptical and sometimes I do think editorial content is influenced by paid partnerships or being invited. Someone's been invited to an event and maybe that's not being disclosed. There seems to be more grace for it on substack with people who are better at hiding it.

[C]

Yes. See, I. I actually disagree. I really though it is. It doesn't pop out to me as much as it might for you. You have a very ads focused brain. I don't. And so I feel as though when I'm reading it, I don't feel as though I'm getting screamed ads at. I also think the beauty of it is, is you can just unsubscribe.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You're not just going through a feed and an ad is popping up, you can consciously choose to stop reading, or you can consciously choose to move aside and read another piece that you feel as though will be more aligned to you.

[A]

Can I ask you a question, though? Because that's really fair. My only thing is, we hold brands and media companies into such high standards about disclosure of ads and being advertised to. Where it gets murky for me and where I feel a little bit uncomfortable is that if that disclosure is not happening and you're getting a kickback or you're getting an invite and you're not disclosing that, yes, it does feel like it's influencing your decision to include one brand over another in that content. I do think that needs to be communicated. And again, maybe that's because we are constantly scrutinized, yes, as a media company, over the disclosure of our ad features. We go above and beyond to make sure that we are really transparent about what's an ad and what's not. But also our core value is content and community over money. It does start to get a bit murky for me when I can see that there is a level of influence from a relationship that someone might have with a founder or, you know, attending an event on someone's behalf. Like, that's fine to do that and then talk about a brand, but I do think there needs to be a little bit of transparency around that. My point is really anchored in this affiliates piece not being disclosed, but it's also an editorial piece that has been influenced. I can't control if a writer wants to disclose that or not at the end of the day. But again, I think because I am very locked into ads, yes, I have like a layer of almost skepticism where I will read things and be like, how much is this actually purely editorial, but also over time, that comes with building trust. If you from the very beginning have been a writer or a creator or someone, you know, even a podcaster who has set the intention that I will always disclose ads or I will always, you know, let you know if something's an affiliate, or I will, you know, acknowledge if I have a relationship with someone and just state. State the obvious and say, like, yes, I have a relationship with this person, but by no means is that influencing the conversation we're having right now. I think for me it's that, like, say the obvious thing out loud and don't always assume that someone knows that because what it can quickly do is undermine the integrity if something was to come out later. So for me, it's more. So why would you not say it. And I don't think it does actually affect, you know, my relationship with the content that you're creating. Because the reality of it is I'm consuming your content because I do trust

[C]

your output and you respect them more because they're actually sharing it with you and they're being vulnerable and so. Yep, exactly right. You are connecting deeper and it still allows them to be naturally themselves while still including those affiliate links. This is actually a great place too, boss, because we're going to hear from Zara Wong, who's been able to build this from the other side of things. But but let's hear a word from today's sponsor before we get into it.

[B]

In case you missed it, Mother's Day is fast approaching. It's our opportunity to send love to our mum, a friend that's recently become a mom, or any of the mother figures in our life. And when it comes to choosing a thoughtful, stylish and personal gift, nothing comes close to perfume. Maya has the most beautiful selection to choose from. Some of their picks being the new Dior J' Adore Intense, Good Girl Jasmine Absolute by Carolyn Herrera and the new Marc Jacobs Daisy Wild. Plus, when you purchase a Marc Jacobs 100ml fragrance, you'll receive a Marc Jacobs travel organizer too. TNCs do apply. Find Mom's new signature scent this Mother's Day in store and online at Maille. And a huge thank you to Maya for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[C]

We actually reached out to Zara Wong, who's contributed to Stylish before and runs a successful substack called Screenshot this to hear about her experiences on the platform. Now her substack is quite fashion lifestyle, all things in between, focused and essentially wanted to know why she decided to prioritize building a presence on this platform. She started really early.

[A]

She did. I would say she was absolutely an early adopter.

[C]

I agree. And it would be really interesting to hear from her in these recordings why she did that and where she can see it going. All right, so let's go.

[A]

I'm pushing play, I think, because of

[D]

the nature of the platform, where it's quite intimate. Like a newsletter goes into your inbox and you read it and you receive it like in quite an intimate way. I suppose it means that the reader feels so much closer to you and they're so much more aware, but also they spend a long time with you. And so I can often see many of my readers click on my email multiple times. They're clicking on heaps of links. And as someone who worked on the marketing side of things, where I ran EDM email campaigns, I know what a good open rate looks like and I know what a good click through rate looks like. And what I get on Substack is amazing. Like it's really phenomenal. I think too on Instagram it's so quick and ephemeral and you're sort of scrolling. Whereas the way Substack is being an email newsletter, you stay with it for a long time. The links are easy to find and they're a lot stickier. I initially started an Instagram series which was all about my recommendations to read, to eat, to shop during COVID And while it was doing really well, it was really popular. I was getting so much good feedback about it. It was very difficult for me to direct people via Instagram to a podcast I was listening to or a new fashion brand I was excited about. Whereas on Subsect you can have that kind of sharing, community, sense of recommendations made in such a much easier way.

[A]

I think what's interesting is understanding that Zara's original journey started on social media. So she said that she's obviously had this platform, this series, and I remember this quite vividly. I followed Zara Wong for a very long time. You know, she was running this series and it was very much like Shoppable Links. So it felt like more of like that social media version of like a listicle piece of content. And then she's obviously made the decision to broaden that content output of what she wants to share to recommendations, what to watch, listen, which is so valuable. What I find interesting is that Substack is now playing the role of being that central point to connect with her community and share all of these recommendations. So it's all being housed and funneled into that substack and it's in one platform.

[C]

I actually often think about the stylish gift guys and that is a central place to go to when you are in need of buying a present. Now I know stylish is an odd substack, but I do find it is very akin to having a substack page where you can go back onto the page and you can find someone's gift guide for your partner, for your mum for Christmas. And so it is a central point that is really easy to find and navigate and it sticks to it's anchoring all the wrecks.

[A]

That's what it is. Whether it be a gift guide, whether it be, you know, what to watch, read and listen, which is what Zara's talking about. It's a central place to anchor all of that and it be the source of truth, really, for your reader or your listener.

[C]

Exactly. And what I'm looking for the most, it's. It's there and I can always go back to it.

[A]

I might be making an assumption here as well on Sara's behalf, so apologies if this is not how she feels, but this is just an observation as well. Seeing people like Zara Wong who do have an authority and a background in magazines and experience in working in big business, seeing them prioritize being on a platform like Substack and really nurturing her newsletter Screenshot. This is also a way for her to build her personal brand. And I know I keep referencing Kate a lot in this episode, but I do think it's really important because Kate is a writer and this is her background. And one of the conversations that we had was there aren't a lot of writers that exist nowadays or freelance writers who don't have a personal brand.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And one thing I would say, having consumed a lot of Zara's content for a very long time now, I think it's almost been two years since I subscribed to Screenshot. This is her personal brand, has absolutely benefited from having this central place that she can house all of these recommendations but also show people that she is an authority. And bringing back to your point earlier, Priya, around saying the things in your head that maybe you can't say elsewhere or, you know, having an audience that can come there and be like, oh, I have a shared opinion with this person. Or I feel like I can relate to this person because they're open and honest and vulnerable and straight talking. I feel like that's the other thing with Substack is like, they feel like to me, they say it's straight more than anyone else, but it's informed, it's smart, and I love it.

[C]

Can I add another point here as well? Which has always stood out to me about Substack is you are also able to get a deeper understanding of why someone's made a decision. For people who are building a personal brand for journalists, for creatives, we typically assume what they're trying to do, right? Because when you say it, you see it for a quick 30 seconds or a minute video, you assume. Whereas Substack allows them to share, allows them to connect more in terms of this is why I did this. This is my reasoning behind this. I also feel as though Substack is gonna be really helpful in reducing cancel culture.

[A]

Interesting I know. Why do you think that?

[C]

I think this because I think when brands are making big decisions or creatives or even politics, people really high up why they've made a decision and educating the meaning behind it. And so you're not actually gonna assume they've made it for this. You're gonna understand. Okay, maybe you might not still agree with it, but you can understand. Understand their thought process behind making a decision.

[A]

You're so right. It's leading with the why.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

And it's giving people the answers and not letting them feel the space with a narrative that is just not true. I also think the paywall piece to it as well. It's having that added layer where people are coming here to consume the content and are giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That feels like more of an opportunity to be able to say the things, say it straight without backlash, which is what I feel a lot of people feel nervous about fronting the camera on TikTok. Yes. I want to talk about the trend in brands looking at substack. There they're going like this, yummy, yummy, yummy.

[C]

We're both making the same. How can we do this?

[A]

How can they get a piece of the substack pie? We did also ask Sara this because she is in the industry and we knew that, you know, being on the platform, she would have an interesting perspective of how she sees brands approach substack in a way that feels authentic or doesn't.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Here's what Zara had to say.

[D]

The brands are on substack. It's really driven by someone on the team for marketing your content who are really passionate and really interested in the platform already. So for the most part, I do think they're well aware of what the platform is like. I think where it can be confusing or maybe a bit more muddied is when brands throw something up on substack that they are just putting up on Instagram and TikTok. And as you know, content does need to be platform specific. I think, to substack, there's a particular kind of tone of voice that readers resonate with. I think they really can sort out the wheat from the chafe. Like, they can really see what is good and what isn't. And I think brands really need to have that really clear tone of voice and know what they're doing on there. There are some that are doing it really well. Like, I think of the RealReal and on their subset, they are offering something that I want to read. They might do a roundup of the most underrated fashion designers to search for in the realreal. Other brands. I think Rare has often been called out because they are not really offering anything that different or clear tone of voice. And it's very corporate and it doesn't feel like you're reading a well written newsletter that is intimate, which is what I think Sabza can offer.

[C]

I agree. And what's interesting here is you have to be really delicate with the content is what she's saying.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Readers can clearly tell the difference between when you are writing for, let's say, an email marketing way.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Or for a community way. My key point of view from what Zara is saying here is as more brands join Substack, you've got to be really careful that you don't compare it to your email marketing because Substack does have that element of email. You subscribe, the email lands in your inbox. It follows the same foundation as an edm, but that's a short sighted way to go about it.

[A]

It's lazy.

[C]

It's the wrong lens.

[A]

It's lazy.

[C]

But I understand why people might lean into it because that's their revenue tool, whereas that's not what Substack is.

[A]

It's not about pushing products.

[C]

No. It's a community tool. It's about connecting. It's about sharing your decisions as to why one strong way I think a brand and a fashion brand could potentially do this is rather than being like, this is our new jacket and here's why we made it. This is the silhouette we're seeing in the industry right now and why it's trending or why it's happening. Sharing the education and the background behind it. Not actually being like, here it is and here's three ways to style it. Yeah, it's actually this is the silhouette we're seeing takeover at the moment and why it's happening.

[A]

This is the inspiration behind how we got here, how this product was created.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

The community piece is really interesting to me. The community hijacking from brands feels like it's just on steroids at the moment. And it's almost like a platform takes off and it's got that trajectory of growth like what we're seeing on Substack. It's like brands, like, how are we showing up here? What can we do? Quick, quick, quick. Like everyone's in a boardroom trying to make a quick decision. Maybe this platform's not right for you.

[C]

I agree.

[A]

And I'm gonna sit here and say that even ourselves, like as a media company, And I think media companies do show up on Substack really well. I want to shout out Rolodex Media because I think they're one of the best examples of how you lean into a platform that feels authentic to your offering, but also makes sense. We've sat in boardrooms and said, is Substack right for Shameless Media right now? No. That's not to say it might not be in the future. Bringing it back to Zara Wong's example of the real real. That makes sense to me because there is an element of curation and there is an element of trust. We're dealing with a website that is all about rehousing pre loved fashion. It's about curation, it's about personal style picking things that feel really unique. That's why I think it works on Substack because at the end of the day, the heart of the content that they're creating is about curation. It's not about product.

[C]

Exactly right, Ray. And I couldn't agree with this more because I feel as though if I was a brand going into Substack. You have to ask yourself, what is the intention here? Why am I doing it? Are you doing it for a revenue income? Like you sat down and said, is this actually worthwhile for Stylish right now? Is our intention to grow this as a community tool or should we just wait a little bit longer? So you have to ask yourself what is your intention on Substack? Because like Zara said and like a lot of people are going to come through it, you're going to be able to tell easily is you know when they are feeding you an algorithm led piece of content and you can tell when they are writing and you're reading a piece that is so authentic and it's educating and it's value and it's vulnerable and so that is what will set people apart. I think a very key question is to ask yourself what is my intention here as a creative, as a brand, as a writer, as a podcaster? Because you can do podcasts on Substack as well, which is really incredible.

[A]

I'm going to be a little bit meta here and I'm going to reference a substack that is by Jess Egart and it's called Brand Person. In this piece, Jess discusses how brands can show up in a way that is really effective on Substack, but also insight into why it doesn't work. Jess said branded content will never be as authentic as real editorial content because consumer goods brands don't have the luxury of operating like a media company or a publication, it's a completely different business model. So if you're going at it from a commercial point of view, see you

[C]

later, it's not going to work.

[A]

And that's not to say it can't be commercial. You just need to lead with editorial.

[C]

And I think that's just the perfect way to end, don't you think? Ri Absolutely. Bang on. I am here for Substack. I'm an avid reader. Who knows if I'll tap into it soon in terms of writing. But but I'm really, really excited to see where it goes.

[A]

I'm really excited to see it grow. And obviously it's going to become more and more prevalent in the Australian market. Those hires, the growth that we're seeing with creators and writers. I'm very excited. Guys. That's all we have time for today.

[C]

Thank you so much everybody.

[A]

Our next episode will drop in your feed on Wednesday. As always, feel free to email style-ishamelessmedia.com or sign into our DMs at StylishPod to keep chatting with us. As always, we love it and we love when you contribute to these episodes. Big thank you to our shows production team, head of podcast Lucy Hun, Senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke, who had more airtime in this episode because she absolutely deserved it. And I really appreciate your perspective, Kate as a writer. Thank you so much. And thank you Priya. I loved having this conversation with you. There's a lot of beep, beep, boop back and forth.

[C]

I loved it. I loved it. Thank you so much for sharing the space with me. Re and happy Friday everybody. Have a beautiful weekend ahead.

[A]

See you guys. Bye.

[B]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land.

[D]

Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.