Inside the “Chanel frenzy” taking over Hollywood

Summary

Style-ish Podcast Summary

Episode: Inside the “Chanel frenzy” taking over Hollywood
Date: March 17, 2026
Host: Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Co-Hosts: Joanna Fleming, Rhiannon Joyce (sitting in for Annika Joshi Smith, who is on maternity leave)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the "Chanel frenzy" gripping Hollywood and the wider fashion world, breaking down Chanel’s strategic rollout of its latest collection under creative director Matu Blasi. The panel also discusses the evolving influence of Chanel in film and celebrity culture, and explores the legal drama around Estee Lauder’s lawsuit against Jo Malone. Recommendations and lighthearted beauty chat round out the episode.

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Oscars 2026 Red Carpet Fashion Recap

[00:48–05:57]

Highlights & Key Quotes

• Joanna and Rhiannon express excitement about Oscar's day:
  • “It’s my personal favorite red carpet day of the year.” – Joanna Fleming [00:48]
• Discussion starts with menswear:
  • Michael B. Jordan congratulated for both his Academy Award and custom Louis Vuitton look:
    • “So dapper.” – Madison and Joanna [01:30–01:31]
• Women’s fashion spotlight:
  • Chanel claimed the spotlight, especially with Nicole Kidman’s ethereal feathered bodice and after-party outfit.
  • Joanna: “Nicole Kidman is my personal Roman Empire right now...like a phoenix rising from the ashes for me.” [01:37]
  • Jessie Buckley’s Chanel look was inspired by Grace Kelly’s 1956 Oscars dress.
  • Tiana Taylor and Hailey Bieber also highlighted for their bold Chanel and Armani looks.
• Rose Byrne (in Dior) receives a special call-out for her makeup by Hung Vanngo:
  • “Her glam just tied the whole look together. And it’s such an important part of the entire look that a lot of people don’t acknowledge.” – Rhiannon [02:43]
• Other notable mentions: Gwyneth Paltrow, Hailey Bieber, Emma Stone (Louis Vuitton)
• Discussion about recurring celebrity fashion formulas:
  • “The only person who...didn’t feel fresh for me was Kylie Jenner”—Madison [05:05]
  • Kylie’s Schiaparelli “keyhole” dress: “She just knows what looks good on her.” – Rhiannon [05:26]
• Consensus: The Oscars red carpet offered a diverse, innovative range of looks, with Chanel dominating attention through both design and clever celebrity placement.

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Weekly Swaps: Team Recommendations

[06:05–11:24]

• Madison: Recommends the Substack newsletter "Totally Recommend" and “Playbook,” and the NYT Magazine’s salary transparency piece.
  • “I'm so nosy. I clicked straight in and had to read it.” [06:42]
• Joanna: TikTok account “H A U X” (a boyfriend documenting his girlfriend learning to DJ):
  • “It is so much fun. She is dropping some absolute bangers.” [07:56]
• Rhiannon: Reviving the ‘French Pedicure’ trend after noticing Annika’s look:
  • “When you’ve got your dogs out in summer...it just adds a little bit of drama.” [10:22]
• Annika (recorded): “The Memo’s” free resource for new parents' hospital bag checklists.

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Chanel's Five-Month Build: Inside the Frenzy

[12:39–23:10]

Chanel’s Unconventional Rollout

• Host recap: Chanel’s latest collection, first under Matu Blasi, shown October 2025, only became available in March 2026 after a deliberate five-month wait.
• Camille Moore (branding expert) summarized the approach:
  • “They did not let attention plateau. They layered touch points...each one built on the last. By the time the doors opened, the customer had been primed for five months.” [13:17]
• Scarcity & anticipation tactics led to “Chanel frenzy” at Paris Fashion Week.
• Brian Boy (fashion influencer):
  • “It was quite a challenge to buy things that one wants because of the limited availability of many items.” [14:05]
• Scarcity compared to Hermès and Supreme.
• Celebrity “breadcrumbing”: Pieces seen on Harry Styles, Margot Robbie, Jacob Elordi, Tiana Taylor pre-public release.
  • “I just think they did such a good job because you still couldn’t buy it, but we’re just seeing it and finding new ways to love it on people we admire.” – Joanna [15:17]
• Cultural influence:
  • Charles Finch/Chanel Oscar party, Chanel now heavily collaborating with filmmakers (Barbie, Nouvelle Vague, Arco), showing itself as a “culture investor” not just a fashion house.
  • “Chanel’s influence in film now extends far beyond red carpet dressing.” [19:27]

Discussion on Exclusivity & Pricing

• Chanel’s aggressive price increases and the five-figure price tag of its ‘it’ items is contrasted with viral high street trends:
  • “We’re talking about ten, twelve thousand dollar handbags and two and a half thousand dollar shoes. This is not the response we usually see for a big luxury fashion house.” – Joanna [18:41]
• Trickling down: Chanel's design will shape high-street and vintage—they predict turquoise colors, fringing, and croc leather will emerge everywhere this year.
  • “I kind of love that it potentially has a resurgence for the vintage market as well at Chanel.” – Joanna [21:59]

Representation & Runway

• Rhiannon notes lack of size diversity, but calls out age diversity:
  • “They had three models walking...all in their 50s. It’s a sign that luxury players understand the enduring nature of style and the growth of their customer base.” [22:14; summarized from Marie Claire]
• Jo: Cites opportunity for older customers to shop these high-ticket pieces.
• Construction motif on the runway as “subliminal messaging”:
  • “It’s like, we’re building something here. Bear with us. It’s in construction.” – Rhiannon [23:30]
• Soundtrack: Lady Gaga's “Just Dance” closes the Chanel show.
  • “I’m happy to go on the record as saying Just Dance is like a top 10 pop song of all time.” – Joanna [24:18]

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Industry News: Estee Lauder Sues Jo Malone

[25:15–35:46]

The Lawsuit Explained

• Recap: Estee Lauder, which owns the Jo Malone brand, is suing perfumer Jo Malone (now legally “Jo Malone CBE”) for using her full name on fragrances for Zara, alleging breach of the 1999 contract which blocks her from using her name to market fragrance.
• Jo Malone CBE’s regret:
  • “She has referred to it as the biggest mistake of my life in several interviews over the years.” – Rhiannon [25:34]
• All reference to Jo Malone the person must use the full legal title “Jo Malone CBE” to differentiate from Jo Malone London.
  • “We were very strictly instructed to only use Jo Malone’s CBE when referring to her across everything.” – Rhiannon [27:34]
• Estee Lauder statement:
  • “Legally binding contractual obligations cannot be disregarded. And when those terms are breached, we will protect the brand that we have invested in and built over decades.” [26:44]
• Panel consensus: This is common in big beauty and fashion acquisitions.
  • “That’s just business, baby...She’s been compensated enough.” – Madison [29:46]

Comparisons & Industry Examples

• Bobbi Brown and Karen Millen had similar restrictions after selling their brands (Bobbi Brown’s non-compete: 25 years; Karen Millen blocked from using even ‘KM’ for other products.)
• Celebrities using alternate naming strategies:
  • “Kylie Cosmetics” (not “Kylie Jenner Cosmetics”), “Rhode” (Hailey Bieber’s middle name), and “Frances Valentine” (Kate Spade’s later brand post-sale).
• On passion vs. payday:
  • “It just really clearly demonstrates these people are visionaries and they cannot stay away from their industries.” – Rhiannon [32:23]
• Australian example: Bettina Liano (had to relinquish her name and brand, attempted comeback with a different line post-sale):
  • “It’s nasty, but it’s business.” – Bettina Liano (as quoted by Madison) [33:39]
• Panel laments that non-competes are designed to help a new owner establish their hold on a brand and old founders often lose relevancy before they can launch new ventures.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Nicole Kidman is my personal Roman Empire right now.” – Joanna Fleming [01:37]
• “It’s in construction. It’s like, this is the foundation.” – Rhiannon Joyce [23:30]
• “That’s just business, baby.” – Madison Sullivan Thorpe [29:46]
• “It is interesting. I feel like the non competes are created to almost lose relevancy of the person who created it.” – Joanna Fleming [34:26]
• “These people are visionaries and they cannot stay away from their industries.” – Rhiannon Joyce [32:32]
• “It’s nasty, but it’s business.” (quoting Bettina Liano) – Madison Sullivan Thorpe [33:39]
• “Just Dance is like a top 10 pop song of all time.” – Joanna Fleming [24:18]

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Key Timestamps

• 00:48: Oscars red carpet fashion discussion begins
• 05:57: Introduction of episode’s main themes and swaps
• 12:39: Deep dive into Chanel’s collection rollout and “Chanel frenzy”
• 18:41: Chanel’s pricing and exclusivity discussed
• 22:14: Representation on Chanel’s runway
• 23:30: Subliminal messages behind Chanel’s autumn/winter show
• 25:15: Estee Lauder lawsuit against Jo Malone
• 29:46: “That’s just business, baby” – conversation on selling name rights
• 32:14: Other founder-brand examples (Kate Spade, Bettina Liano, etc.)

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Tone, Style, and Flow

The conversation is lively, irreverent, and packed with industry insight, behind-the-scenes observations, personal asides, playful teasing, and references to insider culture and social media. The panel balances affection for high fashion with a realistic, at times skeptical, eye on industry practices and luxury marketing psychology.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for anyone fascinated by the intersection of celebrity, high fashion, branding strategy, and the mechanics of the luxury goods industry. It’s peppered with smart, insider analysis and accessible cultural references—perfect for trend-watchers, brand strategists, and sartorial enthusiasts alike.

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Transcript

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Foreign.

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[Joanna Fleming]

This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, lifestyle, brand and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe. My co host today are Joanna Fleming. And our Annika Joshi Smith is still on this Monday pregnant. And we are joined by her lovely maternity leave cover. None other than your Friday. Well, my Friday co host actually, Rhiannon Joyce.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Hello.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Hello. We're hoping by the time this episode drops that Annika will have also dropped her baby. So, well birthed.

[Joanna Fleming]

The baby not dropped yet. Sorry. Sounds like she's dropping an album. She kind of is. I mean, iconic enough. Speaking of iconic, I don't know if anyone else has been living on the Internet today, but I've been chronically online on dual screen because it's been Oscar's day, which is my personal favorite red carpet day of the year.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And there were some looks serving lots of serving favorites.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, I'm going to start with the men.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was a big fan of the boys. Michael B. Jordan, congratulations. First and foremost from stylish podcasts, we congratulate you on your Academy Award, but also wearing customers custom Louis Vuitton. Looking so good.

[Joanna Fleming]

So dapper.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So dapper.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I mean, how could he not?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I know. I mean, not to get straight into it, but he is very, very attractive.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, but you did. You've gone straight in there. Well, I know we're talking about Chanel, so it feels cheating, but I think Chanel had a field day and Nicole Kidman is my personal Roman Empire right now because that is just. I imagine her personal life feels very tumultuous right now, but she is like a phoenix rising from the ashes for me. She looked ethereal in this beautiful feathered, like incredibly intricate bodice. It was embellished, like she just looked unbelievable. And then she served again at the after party. Tiana Taylor also looked absolutely magnificent again in Chanel. And Jessie Buckley was also in Chanel. She won best actress and it was actually inspired by I saw an Up Next designer, the Instagram account, which I highly recommend you follow. Not that that's a spot. We're getting to that later, but it was inspired by Grace Kelly's 1956 Oscars dress. And it was beautiful. Red silk and pink like chiffon. It just, she looked absolutely incredible.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So many feathers. So many others after party look as well, like feathers kind of through the bottom of her dress. Stunning. My Favorite was Rose Byrne.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, stand up.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Very classic.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes. She was in Dior, but I wanted to actually call out her glam. So hung Van Gogh did her glam and she just looked phenomenal. The red lip with that outfit. I feel like it just really. Her glam just tied that whole look together. And it's such an important part of the entire look that a lot of people don't acknowledge.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you know what my Roman Empire is at the moment? The fact that Rose Byrne is in a Domain ad and also nominated. Was nominated for an Academy Award.

[Joanna Fleming]

Like what?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Volvo Cars)]

What do you mean?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Domain would be like, have you seen this ad?

[Joanna Fleming]

They've hit the jackpot. They are fist pumping in their office

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

right now and they're quite funny. They're good ads. Also, Audrey Nooner was wearing Thom Brown and was styled by British born celebrity stylist Daniel Brown. I loved this look. And also, I don't know if you know who this is, but she was one of the trio who performed golden, the K pop demon hunters song.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And one of my favorite movies. And famously I ran into the Gift at the end of the marathon to golden, that song.

[Joanna Fleming]

So personal affinity. Personal affinity.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And she really lent into the golden theme. It was like beautiful gold and black. Like absolutely gorgeous.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. There was so much embellishment. But also I want to shout out Armani. So Armani dressed Gwyneth Paltrow and they also did Hailey Bieber's Vanity Fair after party look. And I think this is one of the best looks I've ever seen from Hailey Bieber. It was like this simple sequin leopard print. It was absolutely sensational. There's also a great video of her chasing after Kendall Jenner and she's just like running in heels, but like, there's no split on the back of the dress, so it's just so real, you know, like the micro step run. You know, like running for the Uber after a wedding.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was thinking running outside of a club where you're trying to get an Uber. Sure.

[Joanna Fleming]

We went different places running. Nonetheless.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I also loved Emma Stone in Louis Vuitton. It was very like shimmery, you know, simple silhouette with a little cap sleeve. It just caught the light so beautifully when she was being photographed as well. Oh, there's just a long list of favorites, I think from this. A lot of people just absolutely served.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And it was really nice just to see so much differentiation. Like, we saw pastels, we saw sequins, we saw embellishment, we saw feathers, but all done very differently. Like, I mean, if you compare, like, Demi Moore to how, you know, Nicole Kidman was looking or Tiana Taylor, it's. They were all very different expressions or exaggerations of those kind of embellishments and feathers.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The only person who I didn't feel did that was Kylie Jenner. I did feel it was really similar to looks that she's had in the past. She looked absolutely incredible. She's an absolute bombshell. But it wasn't very fresh for me. It felt like a look that you've seen her in a few times.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Actually.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

She has worn that before. Oh, yeah, It's Schiaparelli. The one with the keyhole in it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I think she posted something about, like, how she loved that dress the first time she wore it in, like, a champagne color, and she wore it in red this time. So, yes, you have seen it on her before. She just knows what looks good on her. She's like, you know what? I'm gonna rock that again.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And it did look really good on her.

[Joanna Fleming]

Part of me respects that. She just knows what looks good on her. And the other part of me is like, I'd love to see her in, like, the Chanel feathers.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I agree.

[Joanna Fleming]

I can't help but speculate that it's like an intentional thing, that she kind of just does her similar formula. So she's not. The attention's not taken away. She's just there to support him.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

She'll always get attention because she's Kylie Jenner. She did look amazing.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. I love Brunette in Red, as we've spoken about many times in this podcast.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

All right, well, today we're going to be discussing Chanel's interesting rollout of their latest collection and the frenzy that it sparked in Paris. And we're discussing the lawsuit between Estee Lauder and Joe Malone. But first, what are we swapping in this week? Rhiannon Joyce, you are sitting in Annika Joshi Smith's seat today. So do you want to start us off?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I do. I feel honored. So my recommendation is the substack. It is totally recommend. And the fashion newsletter Playbook. So if you. It dropped last week. Technically a double wreck, because it is in relation to the New York Times Magazine article that listed the salaries of various people living in New York.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Volvo Cars)]

Did you guys see this?

[Joanna Fleming]

I did say this.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

No.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm so nosy. I clicked straight in and had to read it. And one person's job in particular gained a lot of attention and a lot of chatter. The substacker that was included. She allegedly earned 275,000 USD, which. Which is 392, 845,000 Australian people had a lot of reactions to this. People were shocked that she was able to make that much money off substack. And she disclosed that she had made that money through substack and also through affiliate links. And then what I really liked about this substack, I know it's a little better bear with me, is that it explains the process of affiliates and how people are actually making money off substack. And if you're someone who doesn't really understand that and is interested in it because you're nosy like me, I definitely recommend reading it.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You two did an episode on affiliates as well, didn't you?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We did our fortnightly Friday episode, Deep Dive.

[Joanna Fleming]

Was that a plug? Just for people to go and listen to that too? Maybe.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I didn't know that was a plug. No, like, I feel like I've heard this film before.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I actually didn't mean for it to be a plug, but yes, Joe, we did. It's honestly, I'm just too nosy and I love industry insiders and the fact that everyone's trying to work out who it is. It's good.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. I think pay transparency is always interesting as well, because it's always been such a secretive topic.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, exactly. Mads, once again, I've come with something and I would like to share something else. It's a TikTok account that's been bringing me a lot of joy at the moment. It is called H A U X and it is a guy that is chronologically sharing every day that his girlfriend is learning to dj. And I am here for this roller coaster ride. It is so much fun. She is dropping some absolute bangers. Few things where there's room for improvement as well, but I love watching the ride. It'll be like you. I don't know. I'm not gonna sing again.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So what are her go to tracks?

[Joanna Fleming]

No, there is no formula. That is what I love. Every day is like having a kinder surprise and not knowing what you'll get inside. I love that it's so great. We don't see her face. It's just the back of her head and her DJing and his reaction. And this podcast is about fashion, brand, lifestyle and beauty and that feels like a lifestyle one.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Definitely.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I'll allow it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Thank you.

[Joanna Fleming]

You bring cleaning, I'll bring the DJs.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that she is a DJ and they're going to do a big reveal at the end. Oh, sorry.

[Joanna Fleming]

You've let her down.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Did you see her face?

[Joanna Fleming]

You just sucked a bit of joy.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Sorry, sorry. Move on, move on.

[Joanna Fleming]

Now. I'm like, no, no, I want to believe it's organic.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No, it is, it is. Sorry I crushed you.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's your dream, Jo, what's your rec?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Mine is actually something that I stole from Arnica. So in her absence, I thought that I would just.

[Joanna Fleming]

In honor.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, credit where credit is due. She came in here one day and she had a French pedicure. And I said to her, that looks really hot. And I'm into that. And I was just. I was seeing the whole look come together and I was like, yes, I'm very into that at the moment. And I think it's the 90s revival and something about that. I've been on the French Petty ever since, I will admit. I know you two are looking at

[Joanna Fleming]

my feet right now, taking a little peep. They're looking nice.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I can see looking. I did go a little bit wrong with my base color yesterday. I had them redone and it's a little bit too cool. So I'm going to have to go back to the drawing board and select another base color next time. But, you know, we live and we learn.

[Joanna Fleming]

Is base color like a bubble bath with, like a little tip?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like, what's the.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Well, it's shellac, so I don't know.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

They just have numbers on them. So every time I go because I've got such a bad memory, I forget the number that I got last time.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You need to take a photo.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I know I should. I just forget to do that every single time. So it's always a process of trial and error. But I'm just loving the, like, just like the skinny French, you know, just that little tiny line at the top.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's like a little slither.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They look good.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You can barely see it. But I think when you've got your dogs out in summer and you're constantly wearing open toe shoes, it just adds a little bit of drama.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

All three of us.

[Joanna Fleming]

All three of us have our dogs out. Yeah, Jinx, you're on your soda.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And since I'm referencing Annika and something that inspired me, I thought I'd actually throw in one of her swaps because. Because she's come pre prepared and she's recorded one for us. So here's hers.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Of course she has.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

So this week I am swapping in a free resource which I think is going to be so beneficial to new parents or upcoming parents. Honestly, it is so overwhelming trying to pack your hospital bag and even all the little things for like postpartum care and just what I'm gonna need. And the memo has the most incredible the list section on their website, which I am literally obsessed with. They tell you everything you need, they tell you how many onesies you need, they tell you all the little bits and bobs that are going to get baby through and yourself through to that next phase or the fourth trimester. And I'm ready to go with my hospital bag.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, we miss you, Annika.

[Joanna Fleming]

Next, we're talking about the Chanel frenzy that's been building up over the last five months. That's right after a word from today's sponsor.

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[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Guys, our first Headlines so Chanel has thrown away the collection playbook. Here's why it's working. A bit of background on this story. So last week, branding expert Camille Moore shared an Instagram post about the rollout of Chanel's latest collection. This collection, the brand's first under the new creative director, matu Blasi, debuted five months ago in October 2025. It was widely considered a resound success. I know we saw this absolutely everywhere. We also spoke about it at the time with rave reviews from editors, critics and fashion insiders. So in her post, Camille said they turned a creative director debut into a commercial event by doing something Most companies get wrong. They made the customer wait five months between the Runway and the retail drop. The waiting is already built into Chanel's model. But what made this different was how they use this window. So instead of opting for a see now, buy now model, which some high end brands have adopted in recent years, they actually stuck to a model that's more traditional to the world of high fashion, which is making the customer wait to purchase. The difference is the way they've used that time to their advantage. So, Camille continued, they did not let attention plateau. They layered touch points metiers d' art in a decommissioned subway station. A campaign shot at Coco's Villa Couture, Grand Palais Ambassador announcements rolled out in sequence. Each one built on the last. By the time the doors opened, the customer had been primed for five months. So the collection was finally available to buy on March 5th. And that was smack bang in the middle of Paris Fashion Week. I feel everyone was talking about it and how hard it was to actually get items. A Vogue business article described what unfolded at Paris Fashion Week last week as the Chanel frenzy. And fashion influencer Brian Boy, who Vogue business spoke to for the piece, said, I don't think Chanel forecasted the consumer response to Matu's superb show you. It was quite a challenge to buy things that one wants because of the limited availability of many items. Whether it was a deliberate decision by Chanel or not, one thing is for certain, the collection was a success. So my first question to you guys, what do you think of Chanel's tactic to build up that hype across the five months? Do you think it was effective?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Well, as Camille said in her wrap up, this isn't new to Chanel. That's pretty standard to do that. But it's the way that they had all of these touch points that I think made the difference here. And we've built up this, like, you know, momentum and also kind of like scarcity as well. It's like, this is gonna be kind of really hard to get, so it's gonna be really exclusive when it does come out. And I think that's really worked in their favor in this case. And it's getting a lot of good press. The actual collection itself, I don't think it's just about people wanting something that they couldn't have. They're actually really loving his Chanel.

[Joanna Fleming]

I mean, the way that he's pulled from the archives has been sensational. And I've seen so much online where there's clear references, but he's been able to spin it in a new and modern way. So I love that he's come into the house, still acknowledge the heritage, both in design, but also with the faces that have been brought back. Like, we spoke about it a couple of episodes ago. Nicole Kidman being back, fresh faces like Margot Robbie, who we've previously seen at Chanel. She copped a lot of flack for, you know, all the memes about someone at Chanel hating her, but now is like, I mean, arguably like the it girl for them. I just think they've had, like, a stellar Runway, and I've loved how they've bred crumb via celebrity. Like, I have no doubt celebrities want this as much as the people who vogue business are, you know, talking about wrapped around the block. But like Harry Styles in, like, the leopard sequined jacket that had been worn in the subway Runway show. Like, he wore that to the SNL after party the other night. We had Margot Robbie and Chanel in the Wuthering Heights press tour. We had Jacob Elordi in the incredible gingham crossover jacket that, like, my body will never get to wear, but my heart will always yearn for. I just think they did such a good job because you still couldn't buy it, but we're just seeing it and finding new ways to love it on, you know, people that we admire. And even Tiana Taylor, the night before the Oscars had a piece on from the collection a week before that had just shown. I was like, I love that we're seeing it immediately in the celebrity world, which I think is just building more hype and anticipation.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I think every celebrity wants to be wearing Chanel right now. I completely agree with you. Interestingly, that event that you referenced was actually hosted by Charles Finch and Chanel, and it's their annual pre Oscar party. And the guest list was dazzling. There were so many main faces there. One thing that I think's really interesting about the scarcity pace is there are a few brands that have done this in the past. I mean, Hermes being one of the best in the business and then obviously in a completely different category. But supreme are known for doing that as well. A lot of the podcasts that I listened to most recently, one of them being Lauren Sherman's fashion people. So Lauren Sherman was interviewing one of my favorite people, Derek Blasberg, and they were talking about how everyone was trying to get Chanel and we're trying to hit up their sales associates. So, yeah, even fashion people are trying to get their hands on it. Whereas usually it's the very important customers.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Or the celebrities.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's also, like, it's got to be a magical mix.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Right.

[Joanna Fleming]

Like, this collection is incredible. The celebrity endorsement is unrivaled right now. The Runway of activity has been like, do you know what I mean? All those pieces have to click. There has to be the right ambassadors, has to be a great collection. People have to respond to it like, this isn't like, oh, it was a good collection. And then it kind of just did its best. Like, yes, we can say it's Matri, but there's also clearly a very good team behind this at Chanel rolling this out.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, agree with that. I really liked this quote from fashion creator and commentator Jay Tibbets on the Chanel hype right now. He said, in a real Blasi's Chanel doesn't look like a costume, but made for real women in all their variety, while also maintaining the house's core signature and sense of status, which you just referenced before Mads. And I think that's a really good way to wrap that up of why that hype is what it is right now. And he was saying that he was in Paris and people were basically, like, knocking down the doors. It was like people were scurrying, seeing sales associates scurrying around the store trying to assist customers.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So there is clearly a lot of hype, especially in Paris right now.

[Joanna Fleming]

And we have to acknowledge that we are talking top end. Like, it has been very widely spoken about the steep increases in prices at Chanel. They have had significant price rises in sort of their key mainstay is, like, you know, the Chanel classic flap and whatnot. But we're talking about, like, ten $12,000 handbags and, like, two and a half thousand dollars shoes. We're not talking like, oh, there's a new drop at Uniqlo. Like, this is not the response we usually see for big luxury fashion house.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I think the reason that we talk about things like this is also because it very much influences what lands on the high street and what brands we will be shopping. Because I'm going to be honest, I'm not going into a Chanel boutique to purchase some of these items, but I can appreciate them, and I can appreciate how they affect fashion as a whole.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think you can appreciate the strategy. Like, there's clearly, to Mads point, a lot of strategy that's gone into this, given the recency bias that's playing in my mind. I do want to talk about the pre Auschwitz Oscars party that I mentioned before because the man who hosted this, Charles Finch, who is a businessman and film producer, also owns a publication called A Rabbit's Foot. I am subscribed to them on Substack. And this piece that talked about the party and obviously showcase all the celebrities there was amazing. But what I found really interesting was they went really deep on how much Chanel is also influencing Hollywood and culture, not just celebrity. And I want to read you this quote. Chanel's influence in film now extends far beyond red carpet dressing. With the house actively collaborating across Hollywood through cinematic fragrance campaigns directed by filmmakers like Luca Guadagnino, Ridley Scott and Baz Lemon, partnerships with major productions such as Barbie and Nouvelle Vague, and even supporting film productions itself, including the Oscar nominated animated feature Arco. Positioning Chanel as a culture investor and creative collaborator within the film industry, not just a fashion house dressing its stars. I feel that wholeheartedly with what I see them roll out on socials, but also how they show up in culture. What do you guys think?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I completely agree. I think they've done a really great job at remaining really relevant and that's really hard to do to keep that mystique and allure. And they are a top shelf luxury brand. And if they're everywhere, that's a hard balance. But if they're nowhere, that's a hard balance too. So I think they've done a really great job at partnering with the right production partners, the right celebrities. Like, I think they're probably the most thoughtful house in terms of partnerships.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

One thing I'm really curious about is what the numbers will be. And we won't know until 2027 in terms of how this actually performed revenue wise. The scarcity thing is interesting because obviously it creates this supply demand and this hype. But until we know the actual units and how much revenue was generated from this, it's difficult to know if it was actually a true success. And I think they've been very tight lipped on that for a reason. Because if the numbers get out, it also can impact the influence.

[Joanna Fleming]

The reality kicks in.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The reality kicks in. It's like, oh, they only ran a limited run of this. And it's like created that scarcity and that idea that I have to have it because it's sold out. But how many units were actually made?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I mean, the Hermes Playbook. Go listen to the acquired episode. One of my favorites of all time. But I'm really intrigued to watch this. I think there'll be a lot of high street inspiration for me, I feel like we're going to see a lot of, like, fringing and probably a lot of that turquoise color that features quite heavily in their footwear and bags.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The croc leather was everywhere as well.

[Joanna Fleming]

Do you know what I love about that bag that's actually influenced by one of their vintage bags. So when I was having a little look on Vestier, there's actually a lot of the vintage bags that are for sale that look very similar. So I kind of love that it potentially has a resurgence for the vintage market as well at Chanel.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Can we talk about the autumn winter show in Paris? Because I wanted to call out a little thing that I noticed. I watched the entire thing. I was having a really good look at it. And something that I picked up, there was no size diversity, which is not uncommon in this industry, but there was age diversity. They had three models walking in their show. Stephanie Cavalli, Laura Ponti, and Christina Chung. They all walked in the show and they're all in their 50s. And I was then digging into this because it started to interest me a lot with these luxury fashion houses and how they go about representation in their brands. And I saw an article by Hayley Le Savage for Marie Claire, and she said it's a sign that luxury players understand the enduring nature of style and the growth of their customer base. When it's time for these highly anticipated IT pieces to land on shelves, guess who's established enough in their career or even comfortably into retirement to actually shop these five figure pieces in the Paris stores? Which is such a good point, Such a great call out.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Jo, you also made this point a few episodes. I was on that episode when you spoke about this in terms of not being a consumer of Chanel and then wanting to target older women. So I feel like you also, you were onto them.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Did they listen to that episode? Maybe.

[Joanna Fleming]

But also it was. We. I think we were speaking about it in reference to Nicole Kidman.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Volvo Cars)]

Yes, exactly.

[Joanna Fleming]

Very deliberate partnership.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I also couldn't help but noticing the subliminal messaging of the construction themed Runway. Did you guys notice this as well? So they had these big cranes with, like, lighting going up them. And they also had, like construction sounds throughout the audio and the music that was playing. And it kind of made me think that it's subliminal messaging for, like, we're building something here. Bear with us. It's in construction. It's like, this is the foundation.

[Joanna Fleming]

I love that. I really love that I've got something way more naff. I just loved watching all the celebrities in the front row bobbing along to Just Dance. You're gonna be okay. Da da da da. I'm like, what a banger. Bring that back.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Every time he's closed a show, he has referenced like a 90s pop sort of banger. I was surprised by this one though. I was surprised Lady Gaga was the last song.

[Joanna Fleming]

I wasn't thinking. I'm happy to go on the record as saying Just Dance is like a top 10 pop song of all time. Yeah, okay, okay.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Volvo Cars)]

I don't know if I agree with you.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay, next we're going to be talking about Estee Lauder suing Jo Malone over the use of her name. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor.

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[Rhiannon Joyce]

okay, so late last week a headline took us by surprise that I actually threw in our Slack chat to put together this episode. And that headline in question was that Estee Lauder is suing Jo Malone for using her name on a fragrance for fast fashion chain Zara. And I know that their fragrances are very popular and now this kind of explains why I actually didn't know that she was involved in this. So Jo sold her iconic perfume brand to Estee lauder companies in 1999. A Guardian article about the lawsuit says as part of that deal, she was blocked from using her name for particular commercial reasons, including the marketing of fragrance. So Jo stepped down as creative director of the Jo malone brand in 2006, and she has said that she regrets selling the rights to her name. According to that same Guardian article, she has referred to it as the biggest mistake of my life in several interviews over the years. In 2011, after a non compete cause ended, Jo launched the Jo Loves brand. Fun fact, I was actually working for Adore Beauty at the time that this brand launched, not in 2011, but I must have been. Maybe 2020, 2021. Maybe that we launched that brand and we very specifically had to refer to her in a certain way, which I'll get into then in 2019, that's when she launched the collab of $0.08 with Zara. On the scents packaging, it was made clear that Joe had created the products, with the Guardian writing that the latest version of the packaging includes the words a creation by Jo Malone cbe. There's the little caveat I mentioned earlier,

[Joanna Fleming]

little asterisks, if you will.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Founder of Joe Loves. So that's what it says on the packaging. Speaking about the lawsuit, an Estee Lauder spokesperson said, Ms. Malone's use of the name Jo Malone in connection with recent commercial ventures goes beyond that legal agreement and undermines Jo Malone London's unique brand equity. They continued, we respect Ms. Malone's right to pursue new opportunities, but legally binding contractual obligations cannot be disregarded. And when those terms are breached, we will protect the brand that we have invested in and built over decades. So we were very strictly instructed to only use Jo Malone's CBE when referring to her across everything, even when interviewing her on a podcast. Had to be Jo Malone's CBE because she was marketing her Jo Loves brand, which doesn't have her last name associated anywhere. But if you were referring to her first and last name, you had to refer to the cbe.

[Joanna Fleming]

What does CBE stand for?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It stands for Commander of the Order of the British Empire. I think it's like it's something that you're awarded with. So she was awarded with it. I think it was her significant contributions to beauty and fragrance.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Is that something like the Queen or Queen? Yeah, Queen or Queen.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I knew what you meant. Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

That's a new one. The Queen. It's just the Queen or the king.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Keep that in them.

[Joanna Fleming]

The king or Queen?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Assign you.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Volvo Cars)]

Okay.

[Joanna Fleming]

Assign. I was gonna say bestow.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, how royal. Very regal.

[Joanna Fleming]

Look, this is such an interesting one, isn't it? Because I think our human initial reaction is to go, that's so deeply unfair not to be able to use your own name.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yep.

[Joanna Fleming]

Ray's shaking her head, being like this. Business, baby.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Literally in my notes, I said, that's business.

[Joanna Fleming]

It is and it is. It's standard procedure. And despite the fact that Jo Malone cbe, just in case. I didn't want to get it wrong.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Careful.

[Joanna Fleming]

You know, has had interviews and said, this is the biggest mistake of her life. The reality is very likely that she had a lawyer consulting on this deal. You know, you get a very big fat check to have your business bought. This is the consequence of that and I cannot imagine doing it and being like, oh, my God. You know, I'm sure you are blinded by the big dollar signs initially. And Bobbi Brown is another great example. Her name brand was bought by Estee Lauder as well. Bobbi Brown's non compete for memory is 25 years. So then she brought out Jones Road, you know, again, couldn't use her name. Like it's. It's all these intricacies. But that is the value of the brand if you name it after yourself.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. And the conglomerates that are buying these brands are buying the name, unfortunately. And that's the risk associated in naming your brand after you. Karen Millen actually encountered a similar scenario. Mads, I don't know that you just referenced Bobbi Brown. That was going to be another one of my examples. But Karen Millen, also, in the early 2000s, after she sold her brand, tried to have this overturned because she wanted to use her name in, I think it was lifestyle and like homewares in the US and China. And they were like, no, you can't do that. You can't even use Karen. You can't use km. You can't use anything. That kind of sounds like it. It was completely rejected because it could have been associated with her fashion brand.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. What do you make of all of this? Given you're like, that's just business, baby. Are you smirking in the corner?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think that's just business, baby. No, look, I agree with you in your point around the renumeration that she would have received for that initial sale. She's been compensated enough. I understand that, you know, you have ambition and you're entrepreneurial and you want to pursue other avenues, but at the end of the day, that deal was signed, sealed, delivered, and you need to do that in a way that is reflective of that contract that was in place.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So on the Jo Malone thing, a creation by Jo Malone, cba, founder of Joe Loves, is what features on the packaging at Zara. And that's the most recent version of the packaging. I have no doubts that with her, you know, strict guidelines around this, that she would have had a legal team look over that, as would Zara, because Zara don't want a lawsuit. But they would maybe also want the notoriety that goes along with her name being Jo Malone, because Jo Loves is nowhere near as well known as Jo Malone London, the brand. So by them collaborating with her, they're like kind of like, oh, well, we've kind of benefit a little bit from using the Jo Malone name. And We've kind of covered everything off by saying CBE and Jo Loves, not Jo Malone London. But obviously the brand have seen that in a very different way. As in Jo Malone London have seen that in a very different way. And gone.

[Joanna Fleming]

Mm, mm.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Not on our watch.

[Joanna Fleming]

Totally.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But I can understand it would be a really hard pill to swallow to relinquish your identity, especially after building such a massive brand with such a cult following. But the sales of these brands, they're enormous and, you know, these share purchase agreements are really clear and they're getting massive sums of money for the sale of these business. I think Karen Millen's off the top of my head. It was like £95 million in maybe 2004. That's a lot of money.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And the value's in the name.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

There are also some racing and good examples of celebrities in particular who have used their name and leveraged that as the brand. Kylie Jenner, Kylie Cosmetics. She didn't call it Kylie Jenner Cosmetics. You still got that one degree of separation but association, which I feel is smart.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And another great example is Rhode. More recent example being why Rhode? Because Road is Hailey Bieber's middle name. Oh, my God.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I did not know that.

[Joanna Fleming]

Did you not?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Why did you think it was called Road?

[Joanna Fleming]

I don't know.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I just thought it was called Road.

[Joanna Fleming]

She liked it and she found it in a boardroom.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Another example in the fashion category, Kate Spade. So when Kate and Andy Spade sold the remaining shares of Kate Spade New York to neiman Marcus in 2006, they also sold the rights to the name. And when Kate launched a new brand in 2016, she had to call it for Francis Valentine.

[Joanna Fleming]

Quite as sticky as Kate Spade. I didn't know that they were bought by Neiman Marcus. We're offering so many tidbits to each

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

other's knowledge that we're sharing.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You know what's funny about all these examples, though, is that I find it just really clearly demonstrates that these people are visionaries and they cannot stay away from their industries.

[Joanna Fleming]

I agree.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's like, yes, the money is so tempting and, you know, that can change your life entirely. Especially if you've, like, bootstrapped this brand from the side start and, you know, you're just really talented and you end up getting this massive offer that would be really hard to say no to. But I know that Jo Malone CBE has said before, like, she just is a perfumer, she is just a fragrance, girly. And she can't stay away from it. And she just had to Come back and do it all again. And that just tells you how passionate these people are about the industries that they're in.

[Joanna Fleming]

I think if you're cutting a check that fat and you're like chomping at the bit, the day you know that non compete is over, which often happens. We've seen it a lot, particularly in beauty. It's a great testament to I guess the level of hunger or the insight you have into that industry and the gap you feel continually exists. Ray, you had a really good local fashion example.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I did.

[Joanna Fleming]

We saw my favorite jeans in between,

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was going to say, do we all remember Bettina Leonard?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes, how could we not?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Honestly, that little yellow tag sent everyone into an absolute frenzy. I read this piece. It's quite old though, so bear with me. It was in, it's in 2019, but

[Rhiannon Joyce]

it feels like last year, if I'm

[Joanna Fleming]

being honest, that's not that long ago. And I'm like, that's seven years, Madison.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But what they called out in this piece is at the time the designer experience, what she described as every creative person's nightmare. Her iconic denim brand was acquired by the apparel group and Liano was shown the door. She had to relinquish her intellectual property and her eponymous label in the process. She said, they wanted what I had and they didn't want me as part of the equation. She says matter of factly. It's nasty, but it's business. Joe, coming back to your point about them really being obsessed with their passion and wanting to chase it, though, Bettina Liano did launch another brand, albeit hasn't quite hit the same status as what the Bettina Liliano denim range did.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But I don't think that, you know, that didn't have the longevity of many other brands either, like the Patina Liano brand.

[Joanna Fleming]

It is interesting. I feel like the non competes are created to almost lose relevancy of the person who created it. And I know that sounds really harsh, but the reality is like Bobby Brown was like the makeup artist. There was a reason that non compete was as long as it was, she was like at the top of her game. I have no doubt the same thing would happen if Charlotte Tilbury was to exit, say Charlotte Tilbury, she is like, you know, celebrity makeup artist to the stars. Like you can't have her name against it in five years time. Coming out with another range of makeup. It's too close.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It dilutes the value.

[Joanna Fleming]

Absolutely it does. And I think Bettina Liano is, you know, probably a homegrown example of that we will all. All rolling around in Patina Liano jeans or rolling around begging to buy us Patina Liano.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I never had them.

[Joanna Fleming]

Personally, I had them, but I think I was saving like $12.20 at Kohl's, like, for squillion years to buy them. I feel like, you know, maybe the brand launches after a time that the relevancy is sadly lost. Yeah, it's like, you know, the heartbreaking industry of beauty and fashion.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Well, I'm going to stay across this scenario with Jo Malone CBE and Estee Lauder because they, at the time of recording, Jo Malone and Zara have adrenaline cbe. Sorry. And Sara haven't made a comment about this situation that they find themselves in. So it will be interesting to keep on top of this and see how it develops.

[Joanna Fleming]

And that's all for this week's episode of Stylish. Thank you so much for joining us. Of course. Thank you very much to you both. Arnica Arnika's not here.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I was like, wow, I saw that rolling out of your eyes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Joseph just stared straight at me.

[Joanna Fleming]

You know what? Thank you to Annika Joshi Smith for her swap, is what I was going to say. Thank you to Annika Joshi Smith for her swap, Rhiannon Joyce for being our lovely Feeling co host and Joanna Fleming for just being here as always.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Thanks, Mads. You too.

[Joanna Fleming]

And of course, thank you to the Shameless Media team, head of podcast, Lucy Hunt and our senior podcast producer, Kate Emma Burke. You'll hear from us all back next

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Wednesday and you'll hear from Ri and I from Friday with our next installment of our limited edition wedding series.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, my God, I'm so excited. These episodes were so fun.

[Joanna Fleming]

Is it weird that I love the wedding series despite not being a bride?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Do you know how many keep being a bride before babe?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, you're allowed to love weddings.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You famously love weddings.

[Joanna Fleming]

I do love weddings. I think I'm a really good wedding guest too. Like, I cry during speeches. I dance on the dance floor. I Cheers. Yeah, Drink the champagne.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You're good at that.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You.

[Joanna Fleming]

Bye. And on that note, cheers.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Goodbye.

[Joanna Fleming]

Here's to love.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Dessert wine is out.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

[Ruby Hall]

Hello, it's Ruby hall here. I'm the host of Shameless Media's interview show, Inherited New interviews drop every single Tuesday. And now you can find the full length video version of these interviews on Spotify. This week I speak to British pop artist Maisie Peters. Maisie is only 25. She signed with Ed Sheeran, who she casually refers to as her boss, has made her Glastonbury debut and supported Taylor Swift at the ERAS tour. Look, here's a quick snippet of our conversation.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I think you're gonna love it.

[Maisie Peters]

My manager calls me and he says, what are you doing August 19th? And I am just not really paying attention because I'm in at this shop and I'm like, oh, I don't know. Like, what am I doing August 19th? And he was like, would you like to support Taylor Swift at the ERAS tour? And it was a huge moment. I mean, yeah, literally a dream come true. I ran into the changing room while my sister was getting changed into. She was trying something on and I was like, ellen, you will not believe what I've just been told to listen

[Ruby Hall]

to my chat with Maisie in full. Just search Inherited on your favorite podcast app right now. New Inherited episodes drop every single Tuesday in the feedback. So I'll see you then.