Is the ‘girlboss'’really back?

Summary

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Style-ish Podcast Summary

Episode: "Is the ‘girlboss’ really back?"

Host: Shameless Media
Date: May 7, 2026
Main Theme:
A deep dive into the “Girlboss” era—its origins, controversies, collapse, and whether “Girlboss 2.0” is making a comeback in today’s fashion, branding, and corporate culture.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the hosts explore the return of the "girlboss" archetype, using a 2025 Vogue article as an anchor. They examine the cultural and professional impact of the original girlboss era, what has changed, and how its core tensions—between ambition, burnout, and gendered expectations—are playing out in 2026. The hosts also reflect on generational shifts, the pendulum swing between hustle and “soft life,” toxic work environments, and how mentorship and ambition are evolving for modern women.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the “Girlboss” Era

• Origin: Coined by Sophia Amoruso, founder of Nasty Gal, the "girlboss" typified an ambitious, stylish millennial woman running her own business, closely tied to Instagram aesthetics (Millennial pink, brand-centric marketing, aspirational images).
• Quote:
  • “Hashtag girlboss, hashtag girl, which was originated by the Nasty Gal co-founder Sophia Amoroso.” (05:48, C)
  • “It was very much this idea that she was this really ambitious, really successful, but really cool and put together woman as well.” (06:48, A)
• The movement extended beyond Amoruso—referencing companies like Refinery 29, Reformation, and Glossier.
• The “girlboss” image was closely associated with white, privileged backgrounds, and was never mirrored with “boy boss” for men.

2. The Rise and Fall of Girlbosses

• Success stories overtaken by scandal: Many of the original “girlboss” leaders had businesses that ultimately collapsed or faced major controversies—allegations ranged from toxic work cultures to racism and financial mismanagement.
• Visibility and disappearance: Many founders (e.g., Audrey Gelman of The Wing, Yael Aflalo of Reformation) “went underground” or shifted to less public roles after intense media scrutiny.
• “All those other founders that we've referenced... had to go dark because all of them experienced their own controversies.” (08:16, C)
• The “Glass Cliff”: Women being placed in leadership roles during periods of crisis, only to be blamed when things don’t improve quickly.
  • “Women are often put into positions of power, like a CEO role, when shit hits the fan.” (16:24, C)
  • Examples mentioned: Christine Holgate (Auspost); female political leaders post-crisis.

3. The Toxicity of Hustle Culture

• Badge of honor: Hustle, “busyness,” and overwork became status symbols, especially for women trying to “do it all.”
  • “Your life became your work and it became your identity and it became cool... how hard you worked showed how busy and important you were.” (11:46, A)
• Exploitation vs. ambition: The hosts, echoing former Refinery 29 staffer Kate Lindsay, acknowledge the exploitative side masked as female ambition.
  • “A lot of what was branded as ambition was straight up exploitation.” (12:17, C)

4. Changing Tides: Girlboss 2.0

• Post-pandemic pendulum swing:
  • “We then had the rise of the soft life. Soft girl, lazy girl... Covid was a big part of that. Suddenly we were able to work from home.” (15:21, A)
• “Girlboss 2.0” is here but reframed—learning from the past without returning to toxic hustle culture.
  • “I think it's here, but I think it's framed differently, and I think there's some really strong learnings, both positive and negative.” (12:59, C)

5. Work/Life Balance and Representation

• Tension between old and new values: Millennials unlearning hustle culture vs. Gen Z expectation of flexibility.
• Rise in women leaders: “Women executives in the C suite now make up 29%, so just under a third... up from 17% in 2014.” (23:36, C, referencing Vogue)
• Importance of support: Referenced McKinsey research—ambition gap is a myth; the real gap is in structural support for women.

6. Mentorship and Aspiration in the Digital Age

• New forms of mentorship: Consumption of content and digital communities as “mentorship.”
• “There is this constant theme of content being mentorship... she’s challenging this physical form of mentorship and instead it’s more about consuming content.” (27:58, C)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the negative connotations of “girlboss” now:
  • “If someone uses that term or even to describe me, I bristle.” (12:59, C)
• On generational tensions:
  • “There is this tension... people who've been brought up with the girlboss that are trying to unlearn and people... in the COVID era going, what do you mean I have to go into the office three days?” (21:24, A)
• Work from home debate:
  • “Work from home culture is career suicide... it disproportionately affects women. If anybody thinks that you'll get on the same promotion... without visibility... they are crazy.” (22:44, C, quoting Emma Grede)
• On culture’s changing values:
  • “Take your lunch break. People just love a label... What Emma Grede is saying and doing is not wrong. It's just not for everyone." (24:41, C)
• On the proliferation of labels:
  • “I don't want the term girlboss back. I don't think it has great connotations. I liken it to words like gatekeep, gaslight, girls' girl.” (29:27, A)

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Important Timestamps

| Time | Topic / Quote | |----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:48 | Definition of “girlboss,” origins with Sophia Amoruso and Nasty Gal | | 08:00 | Discussion of companies and individuals emblematic of the movement—Glossier, Refinery 29, The Wing, etc. | | 11:46 | The glorification of “busyness” and work as identity | | 12:17 | Critique of hustle culture and exploitation | | 14:54 | Forced hustle/unlearning toxic expectations, Gen Z/COVID work attitude divide | | 16:24 | Explaining the “glass cliff” phenomenon | | 18:43 | Tenure gap between male and female CEOs; McKinsey study on support vs. ambition gap | | 20:44 | What’s changed: Hustle is dead, flexibility up, generational frictions | | 22:44 | Work from home vs. ambition, quoting Emma Grede’s controversial statement | | 23:36 | Stats on women in executive leadership | | 24:41 | Reframing labels—advocating for individual agency, balance, and less policing of each other's choices | | 25:54 | Critique of new “soft life”, freelancing vs. corporate culture | | 27:58 | Digital mentorship as a replacement for traditional workplace mentorship | | 29:27 | On loaded terminology—“girlboss,” “girls’ girl,” “gatekeep,” “gaslight” | | 30:42 | Cultural outrage towards both ends—Kim Kardashian’s “no one wants to work” and Emily Blunt’s advice to “quit” | | 31:55 | “Not interested”—unfollow content that doesn’t serve you; discourse is healthy, outrage isn’t necessary | | 32:20 | Final thoughts: Girlboss is back, “looking a little different this time” |

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Tone and Language

Conversational, witty, candid, and self-aware. Hosts gently poke fun at themselves as “elder millennials” while giving honest, nuanced critique of workplace trends—never preachy, always open to shades of gray. Cultural references abound (The Office, Devil Wears Prada, Kim Kardashian), maintaining a tone that is both accessible and insightful.

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Takeaways

• The original “girlboss” culture is not returning in its original form, but elements of it—ambition, aspiration, women in visible leadership—are being reincorporated with critical awareness and an emphasis on balance.
• Modern “Girlboss 2.0” involves taking what worked—inspiration, representation—without embracing toxicity, exclusion, or overwork.
• Work culture is still fraught, especially along generational lines, but new norms are emerging favoring flexibility, digital mentorship, and diverse leadership.
• The ongoing challenge is to support women’s ambition while not policing each other’s choices or falling into cycles of online outrage.

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Memorable Exchange

“I think there has to be a reframing and a change and an embracing of this [girlboss concept], but in a way where it’s like we’ve learned from that. It can still exist now.” (28:32, C)

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Further Engagement

Listeners are encouraged to join the conversation by emailing or messaging the hosts with their takes on “girlboss 2.0” or topics they’d like to hear next.

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Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

This episode of Stylish is brought to you by M. Layers, textures and statement coats. Winter has officially arrived in store and online at Maya.

[A]

Hello and Happy Friday. Welcome to Stylish Friday.

[C]

Stylish Friday.

[A]

This is the corner where we talk all things brand, campaign, career stories. And today I feel like we are really going to get into the weeds. The weeds.

[C]

It's been a while since we've been in the weeds.

[A]

It's been a while since we've been together, but it's been a while since we've been in the weeds as well. Ray, you're actually going to start by asking me what my word of the week is.

[C]

No, let's start by telling everyone what weeds we're getting into. And then we'll get into word of the week.

[A]

I'm just excited for my word of the week.

[C]

We are talking about the girl boss era. The article we're actually going to be anchoring this conversation around the return of the girl boss ran in Vogue. It wasn't that recent.

[B]

It was actually March 2025.

[C]

But I feel like the resurgence of this girl boss 2.0 has come up a lot with the likes of Emma Grade and the major press tour that she's been doing. The article was, is the girl boss making a comeback? And I'm excited to get into that and really unpack and get into the weeds. And the nitty gritty of like, where do we sit on this? And do we want it to be back?

[B]

But before we do, Mance, word of the week.

[A]

Word of the week. So I'm actually bringing a TikTok account as my word. So I mean, technically, her first name could be the word. Look, you know how much I love jewelry. I like. I honestly.

[C]

You go stripped.

[A]

Someone called me a magpie the other day and I was like, that is just. That's me. I like shiny things. I notice it as soon as people get something new or they've got like a great statement earring or a bracelet. Doesn't even have to be my style. I just notice it on people.

[C]

I am shocked by how much you do notice those details. I can't remember who we were with, but it was literally like it had been months since we'd seen them. And you were like, that's new.

[A]

It was our girlfriend, Georgia, and we were having glass of wine and I was like, I like that bracelet. It's new. I have not seen that on you. So one thing, obviously, we've just come back off the Met Gala. We had our episode on Tuesday for Our Wednesday drop of stylish chatting. All things Met Gala. But what I love that happens a few days after the Met Gala is you start to see things that, you know. The outfit tends to be the focus, but you start to hear more about the hair, who did the makeup, what the jewels were. There is an account called Julia Chafe on TikTok. I think she has about 250,000 followers. But she has been doing these breakdowns of jewelry. Being, like, doing this video until I get to become the Met Gala correspondent for jewelry.

[C]

Oh, I like the sharp angle on that. Very narrow, like, focusing on jewelry. That's my area of expertise.

[A]

Exactly. Which it's not my area of expertise, but that's where my focus was. In the last 24 hours. Jo had referenced Asia Ambani. She was in over 100 carats of diamonds. But she had actually been with her and was, like, talking through all of the jewelry in real time and broke down basically all of the jewels. She was actually wearing a Lorraine Schwartz emerald that Angelina Jolie had worn at the Oscars, like, six years ago. She has the most incredible videos, basically breaking down, like, Elizabeth Taylor kind of diamonds. She's doing all sorts of breakdowns. Look, it's nothing that any of us are going to go out and purchase, obviously, but I just think if you love the history of jewelry or want to understand an element of fashion that is there, that's a little bit different to just an outfit. I had the time of my life on my walk this morning looking at all of her videos.

[C]

Okay, so is this a passion point, or is she, like, a gemologist? Is there an area of expertise? She's speaking.

[A]

She's a jeweler and a gemologist, but

[C]

I care more about that.

[A]

It's also a passion. So I kind of love how much she's, like, entering us into her world.

[C]

I love, love, love, love when people speak from an area of expertise. I need flow that also lays it

[A]

in a way that the average person can understand.

[C]

Yeah, like, tell me in layman's terms, like, if you start talking V, blah, diamond X, I'm like, you've lost me. I want to know, like, surface level, digestible, snackable.

[A]

Yeah, I always think of that scene from. And my US Office fans will understand this. When Michael Scott is having the finances explained to him, and he's like, now explain it to me. Like, I'm fine. And that's what I always think is, like, if you were explaining something to someone who didn't know anything, would it be engaging? And I would Say she is.

[C]

Okay, so we're going to explain the girl Boss era to our audience as if they were five.

[A]

No, we're going to give them a little bit more credit than that.

[C]

We'll be getting into the weeds in a deep dive, but we'll do that right after a word from today's sponsor.

[B]

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[A]

Okay, Bad girl. Riri, what is a girl boss?

[C]

What do I think a girl boss is? Okay, first and foremost, I think hashtag girlboss. Hashtag girl, which was originated by the Nasty co founder Sophia Amoroso. Do you remember her?

[A]

Nasty Girl. Not the Nasty. Not the Nasty founder. The Nasty Gal Gal.

[C]

I forgot that. And that's very important. Nasty Gal.

[A]

Yes. And for some of our listeners who might be a little bit younger than us and may not identify, very Millennial. Millennial. So millennial coded. Like put glossier, Millennial pink, the L A wall with the wings in the background. Like you've got it all in one bucket, you know, like, that is the era of Nasty Girl. Now, if you were 1996, 97, you might be like, I have no idea what you were talking about, but Nasty Gal, I would kind of liken to a white fox, a princess Polly, maybe even like a cheaper revolve more of

[C]

like a retailer as well, because I remember they stocked really cool brands at the time, like Jeffrey Campbell. They had that like, real edgy, sort of like punk vibe. But then it was also very like Mainstream at the same time.

[A]

Yes. I would say that they, like, 50% of Coachella would have been dressed in Nasty Gal at that time. But Sophia was the founder of that brand. And it was very much this idea that she was this really ambitious, really successful, but really cool and put together woman as well. And everything she uploaded on Instagram, hence the hashtag was Hashtag Girl Boss.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that eventually was the name of her book.

[C]

It was. Did you read the book?

[A]

I did.

[C]

I read the book too.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, my God. We've really exposed ourselves here. Interestingly, though, she does spend a lot of time lamenting in the book about the fact that she didn't have a lot of money when she first started out and was really bouncing around trying to build Nasty Gal as the business that it became a multi, multimillion dollar business as quickly as it rose. It did fall, though.

[A]

Yeah, it did. And I think it was hard for her because she was so applauded and so celebrated and so closely tied to the notion of being a girl boss.

[C]

And I think this general theme in the 2000, so we're talking around 2010, is that there was Sophia's business that rose to the top. There was Refinery 29. There was, you know, reformation. When you think of Hashtag Girlboss, I think of all of these businesses, not just Nasty Gal.

[A]

Yeah. I think of Emily Weiss and Glossier as well.

[C]

Which was surviving member, though.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Oh, would we say.

[A]

Yeah, I see. I still would.

[C]

I feel like, in terms of coming out of that era unscathed, maybe not in a. Unscathed's not the right word.

[A]

Yeah. I was like. I think there's definitely been scathed by controversy.

[C]

Totally. But I think in terms of still existing and operating in a very visible setting, she is. All those other founders that we've referenced, I would say had to go dark because all of them experienced their own controversies. And, you know, there were articles that were ran either about unfair treatment to employees and working conditions. Racism was at the center of a lot of these conversations, or, you know, this positioning of their business being really successful. But then behind closed doors, it was actually, you know, hemorrhaging cash. So a variety of reasons. Some of them very legitimate in the sense of why they were garnering criticism. Some of them, I feel a little bit of a pile on.

[A]

Yeah. And I think it was such an interesting concept because one, by nature, the word boss is to have authority to be in charge of which they all were. They all held, you know, the position of either founder or founder CEO, managing director and whatnot.

[C]

Overarching theme, female leaders positioning the power. Very much an authority, but also someone that you were looking up to.

[A]

Absolutely. And I think they presented in a very stereotypical. Fashion isn't the word I want to use, but it was definitely an aspirational.

[C]

There was a mold, there was a connecting thread through all of them and a very clear esthetic that I, I think really takes you back to that time and makes you think. I think the Millennial pink is definitely at the forefront.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean, when we talk mold as well, we have to look into the uncomfortable truth, which was that they were white rich, they were, you know, and they were, generally speaking, privileged backgrounds mostly. And I think, you know, there's that part of it. And also then we have the fact that they are women and we've never called male bosses boy boss.

[B]

No, we haven't.

[C]

What the Vogue article actually touched on as well is that a lot of these women who disappear, I would say had to go underground once their businesses either fell apart, quite literally, they don't exist anymore. So both Nasty Gal and the Wing closed. Yeah. Or they had to step away and opt into less founder facing opportunities, more angel investment opportunities. Some of them have slowly reappeared. So Audrey Gelman, who was the co founder of the Insta famous workspace called the Wing, and again so millennial coded. So for those of you who don't know, it was like, think about all the working spaces around here, like the Commons we work. It was like very female skewed. And it was much about connecting and networking in an environment where, you know, you could get exposure to other people who were like minded. Great concept, great concept. Laced with controversies. There were actually reports at the time about the working conditions, but Audrey and the founder of Reformation, Yael Aflalo, both of them have recently come back into their roles. And that's what the Vogue article was really, really trying to focus on is, you know, why did these women have to go away or go quiet? And does this actually signal that GirlBoss 2.0 is back?

[A]

Yeah. And there's an interesting element of Girl Boss I feel like that we haven't touched on Ray, and that is that it was a hustle culture. When they were interviewed, when they were profiled, when they wrote their books, it was very much like I did 16 hour days. I skipped breakfast, you know, I ate dinner in the office. Like, I think that is an inherently big part of that and hallmark of that period of time, the girl boss. Like, you know, there's more memes than I can count of, you know, girl bossing too close to the sun. And, you know, God bless Emily and the devil Wears Prada. Very timely. But, you know, I love my job. I love my job. I love my job. This idea that, you know, you were your work and you were what you

[C]

did and there were no boundaries. It was like work and life bled into one and your life became your

[A]

work and it became your identity and it became cool. You know, it became cool to work and to work really hard. And how hard you worked showed how busy and important you were.

[D]

Busy.

[C]

It was like a branding, I'm so busy. This is very much busy is the word that always comes front of mind for me. Or top of mind. I'm like, oh my God, I'm so busy. It's like people wearing that as a badge of honor.

[A]

Yeah. And. And a badge of I'm important enough to be busy.

[C]

I think it's really important to acknowledge a lot of this culture of what was embraced was actually really fucking toxic.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Like a lot of what was branded as ambition was straight up exploitation. And maybe it wasn't in all of those businesses or maybe, you know, just pulling away from these businesses as a whole and looking at that cult of that era, it was absolutely laced in exploitation. This was also backed by Kate Lindsay, who was the author of the embedded newsletter and host of ICYMI. She also worked at Refinery 29 in the heart of the Girl Boss era. And she said a lot of what was branded as ambition was actually exploitation that you were okay with and the business was okay with.

[A]

Yeah, completely. And so I guess now we're at 2026. We've got more than enough articles substacks going around back in the algorithm. Do you think Girl Boss 2.0 is here?

[C]

I think it's here, but I think it's framed differently and I think there's some really, really, really strong learnings, both positive and negative, that we can take from this era. I will say up top, viscerally, when I read hashtag GirlBoss 2.0, my visceral response was quite negative because I think the term girlboss itself has a negative connotation. So even in, honestly, in my own day to day life, if someone uses that term or even to describe me, I bristle. Yeah. Because I see that as like, that's not good. No, I don't want to be hashtag Girl Boss. I don't want to like, I don't want to embody that. I don't want to embrace that because as much as I love the fact that there is space for people to be able to see, take motivation and take inspiration from, whether it be these women in the 2010s, which we did, we were reading their books, we were taking the good. We was craving people to show us what it. What you have to do to be successful. And I do believe that. I do believe that being successful comes with sacrifice. And I do believe that you really have to push yourself in your workplace. Do I believe you have to do that at the expense of your mental health? Do I believe you have to do that and be shit to other people? No. Those things are not mutually exclusive. So what I see now, and as this next iteration of hashtag GirlBoss 2.0.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Is taking all the good stuff from that era and showing people what you can do in your job, but also showing them that you do not have to work to 10pm and maybe this is also very specific to the industry that I'm in, but you do not have to kill yourself for the job or for the fucking corporate ladder to be successful.

[A]

Yeah. And it's funny because if we look at the 10 years in between, the complexity for me is that the pendulum swung so much. So we went from this hustle grind, eat at your desk, don't take a lunch break. And that was applauded. I have personally benefited from that system of not taking the lunch break, getting in early, getting in before your boss. I was. I was brought up in that culture.

[C]

You and I have had this conversation so many times. We have had to unlearn so much of what was imposed on us by our bosses. And we were told that is what is going to get you a promotion. That is a. I will, hand on my heart, say that was said to me. If you are not seen as the last person leaving this office, if you were seen taking a doctor's appointment in the middle of the day, you will be questioned. And that is fucked up. Like I'm saying that, but it was 100% the reality that we had to experience.

[A]

And so for me, where the pendulum has swung so much in that Ray, is that we then had the rise of the soft life. Soft girl, lazy girl, like this. And I do think Covid was a big part of that because suddenly we were able to work from home. You know, wasn't exactly. We were able. We were forced. But there was this systematic shift of. Whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on. Actually, I can go for a walk in the morning, later in the day. I'm not up at 5am to get to the gym, to have coffee, to be in the office by 7:30, 8:00'. Clock. I think a lot of that changed. And so I think the Girl Boss return does deserve to be interrogated. It cannot be a lift and load because the other additional complexity is also that even when Girl Boss 1.0 was going on and you know, fueling ambition and in some cases exploitation, it was still encouraging women to work as hard as possible in a system still not built for them to succeed or achieve.

[C]

Do you know what it reminds me of? Do you know the phrase the glass cliff?

[A]

No, I know the glass ceiling, but not the glass cliff.

[C]

So the glass cliff is this idea that women are often put into positions of power, like a CEO role when shit hits the fan. So you know, a business is in turmoil or crisis, they've had a scandal or you know, the market share is quite, and usually this term is specifically related to businesses that are listed on the stock exchange as well. So optics wise you've got this woman who's coming and being put into a position to save the day. But the fact of the matter is it's only when shit hits the fan.

[A]

Can I give two examples of when we're seeing this in our local market? One for political and ones business related. The first is Christine Holgate at Auspost.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

So infamously purchased, I believe it was five or six Cartier watches as bonuses. If you actually look into what has happened at Australia Post previously, Christine Holgate was absolutely used as a scapegoat for that. She is now at a competitor of Auspost, absolutely thriving. But I would say that was an example of she was held to a very different standard of a man. And the other is the most recent federal election. The Liberal Party had their worst ever result, lost the most amount of seats they ever had. Have a female leader step in after that crisis.

[C]

Yeah, and it's so frustrating because so often these women, you know, we're wanting women at the top and we're wanting them to be into positions of power, but the reality of it is the lay of the land and the industry itself is usually fucked or the business is fucked. And then what it means is that these women are then in shorter tenures what their male counterpart would be. The thing is, as well, this is actually statistically backed and it's a really, really strong indicator of the woman not being the problem. It's actually the industry or the company itself, so much so that it affects women's tenure in a position. So, you know, it's one thing that they're being put in these positions when shit's hitting the fan, it's another that they're then having to move on quite quickly and the business is going like, oh, well, this is why we can't have women in power. Or that's what the media is portraying on behalf of these businesses. So the actual tenure Guardian actually reported since 2018, women have lasted an average of 5.2 years as chief executives compared to 8.1 years for men. Like, that's a huge difference in terms of that duration and tenure. And that's speaking to this idea that, you know, they're coming in, they're being expected to clean everything up, but then they're not given the same Runway or opportunity as men to be able to do it. There's no grace.

[A]

And I think that I read a great substack by the author, was called Digress and spoke about this a lot. And there was a piece of research by McKinsey that was referenced that I believe the Vogue article also referenced that was saying it's actually not an ambition gap with women, it's the support around them to support that ambition, to see that through to fulfilment. So they're actually, it doesn't exist when the system is built to support and I think to highlight that gap that perfectly holds its hand as a piece of research to say, okay, yes, there's a three year gap between men and women. If women were to be supported in that environment, that gap actually wouldn't exist.

[C]

And bringing it back to the girl boss era as well, The Vogue piece touches on this quite a bit. A lot of the controversy and the criticism that these women face and the reasons why they had to step away. There is justification there. But there were also systemically issues and these women were given millions and millions of dollars. They weren't given the team to support them and be around them to make better financial decisions. They're expected to be the jack of all trades and we all know how that ends up. You're the master of none.

[A]

Bang on, Ray. Next we're going to talk about what we actually feel like needs to change under the girl POS era and what has changed. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor.

[B]

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[C]

Straight off the bat, I think we can acknowledge that hustle culture from that hashtag GirlBoss 2010 era is dead and that needed to change. It's also really important to acknowledge that embracing, I would say, flexibility is important. And I think businesses are definitely doing that. Especially this post Covid era. We're seeing more work from home. We're seeing, you know, people like myself and like you, Mads, who are able to work full time, but then also embrace their own line of works outside of that, build their own profile, you know, freelance. You've gone from working in a big corporate structure to now working freelance. And that gives you, by design, more flexibility and freedom to be able to create work life balance.

[A]

I've got to say as well, the uncomfortable thing, which is, and it's ironic when you're saying, you know, to have this balance, you can also do other things. It's not applauded at the moment to be like, I'm working really hard or I'm tired. And I, you know, we had an interaction recently where someone was like, I love that all these girls are doing all of these things. Like, you know, smart girls doing cool stuff, trying really hard. It's not popular to say yes. And that comes at the compromise of sleep, or in the emigrate case, it comes at the compromise of spending time with my children, or it comes at the compromise of not working from home. They're not celebrated things. And I do think there is a tension at the moment and potentially a generational tension that is people who've been brought up with the girl boss that are trying to unlearn and people who've been brought up professionally in the COVID era going, what do you mean I have to go into the office three days? Or what do you mean that I have to come in on the day that's my work from home day? Because something's changed in that, but that's my day. There is this tension of like, we need to learn a little bit more here in the new era and we have to unlearn a little bit more from the last era that I see playing out a lot because so many people go, I don't know how you do it all. And I'm like, I have about five hours sleep. Or, you know, I have to forgo that friendship thing, or you have to say no to the thing. And it is uncomfortable to say that sometimes those successes come at the cost of personal peace.

[C]

I know Emigrate's been talked about a lot on this podcast, but I do want to bring this up because given the recent headlines surrounding the commentary that she made about working from home specifically. So if you're not familiar with that, this is what she said. Work from home culture is career suicide. I believe that it's disproportionately affects women. If anybody thinks that you'll get on the same promotion or the same pay increase without the visibility and the proximity by the people who make the decisions, they are crazy. Your boss can't tell you, but I'll tell you, this is what she told Elle Swarm of negativity surrounding this. Why do you think people were pissed?

[A]

Well, there's some pretty loaded language in there. I mean, to use the phrase career suicide is pretty loaded language. Probably the most loaded you could say. Yeah, I think people were outraged because it's not what they want to hear. People do like working from home, they want to be able to put their washing on at lunchtime or take their dog for a walk or pick up their kids from school. And that behavior and that culture is conducive of those things.

[C]

The rogue article that I referenced, up top, they actually interviewed Meghan McConnell and she said that women executives in the C suite now make up 29%, so just under a third. That's a significant difference from the 17% they saw in 2014. Meghan went on to say, there's been meaningful progress in increasing women's representation, especially at the top of companies. Now, I don't think we can solely say that, you know, the Girl Boss era inspired that in its entirety, but what I will say is the trend of ambition, the trend of inspiring women to really show up at work and be present and, you know, really try and succeed has contributed favorably to that C Suite start.

[A]

Yeah, it absolutely has. And I think where the challenge is for this girl boss 2.0 is how do we still have it? Continually serving women whilst also balancing and protecting peace and having work, life, balance and being who we are outside of just our jobs.

[C]

So what do we need to do differently?

[A]

So much.

[C]

So much.

[A]

Look, maybe take the lunch break. Like, just take your.

[C]

Take your lunch break. People just love a label. And what I think we need to be doing is not labeling this next iteration of hashtag GirlBoss 2.0 and instead allowing space for people who want to lean into ambition, people who want to find this type of content and find inspirations like Emma Grade. What Emma Grade is saying and doing is not wrong. It's just not for everyone.

[A]

I do think that this sort of pile on in this, you're this or you're that culture at the moment is where we risk pulling each other down.

[C]

I'm gonna make it about women. This is what we do. Yeah, we do this and we have to be accountable. And you know, on the other end of the spectrum, you've got the trad wife trend. You've got soft. What is it again?

[A]

Clearly I'm not on the side of TikTok.

[C]

You've got soft life. And again, that also comes from a place of privilege where people can work for themselves. If that is something that you're able to do in your freelancing, that's not

[A]

a soft life, Ray.

[C]

I know that, but I feel when you said that, I thought of freelancers and people who are able to work for themselves, to be able to create that work life balance. That's really hard to do in a corporate structure. Unless you're working in a corporate environment. You're like, what is it, the silent quitting as well? It's very much just like, yeah, kind of cruising.

[A]

I mean, I kind of challenge this a little bit. Right. Because I look at a lot of my friends in corporate roles. They have employee assistance programs, they might have free gym memberships as part of it. They're not to work over the contracted hours because at some point there's been a litigation or lawsuit that's either been public or private. Like I do think in corporate structure a lot of that is cultivated and curated.

[C]

But then why aren't we seeing that online? Because I feel like all I see is corporate culture get killed and everyone's like, break up with your corporate job and go out on your own.

[A]

Well, I think that we're probably on a small percentage of algorithm. I mean, I know a lot of people taking an hour long lunch break in their corporate roles to go to the gym or go for the run. And I know a lot of people working for themselves that are like strapped their laptop until like 11:00pm at night.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, to argue with myself as well, I would say a lot of the content that I'm seeing and a surge is this new wave of interest and emphasis on the marketing girlies and the career driven creators who are working a 9 to 5. And people are really gravitating to that. And I think the reason why is people are craving mentorship. And it is really, really hard to make time for physical mentorship in the, in the current world that we live in. And there's never been a better time to be more agile with how you actually look at mentorship. Move away from it being like, oh, I physically have to have a coffee with someone and instead I think there needs to be more actually, do you know what, again, sorry with the emigrate references, but I just, I'm going to go straight to the. Well, the Emma Greed. Well, in her book there is this constant theme of content being mentorship. Mentorship is like referenced throughout. It's very much this idea that she's challenging this physical form of mentorship and instead it's more about consuming content and that being your mentor. So for example, like Aspire by Emma Grade, I'm constantly listening to that. I'm getting access to some of the biggest names in the world and what I'm taking away from that are little nuggets of what I can apply to my job or maybe things I don't want to apply to my job. And maybe there's someone's working style or how they've built their business isn't actually relevant to me. So it's like, leave that there where it is. As much as I hate labels, I do like that it is creating this new wave of digital mentorship.

[A]

I like it too. Yeah, I think that's a really great point. And I do think that this era of needing someone to have physical proximity to be doubling down with them and having that time is gone. People don't have time. Time is the greatest commodity. And if they're trying to achieve work, life, balance and do their job, they probably don't have time to get a recurring fortnightly coffee with someone as a mentor.

[C]

And I'll tell you what the appetite for it is there. When I was at the Social Summit event in Melbourne, there's well over 300 people, a mix of people who worked in corporate, people who worked in media marketing, but also a lot of small business owners and founders are craving connection and a bit of a community to build with like mind experiences. That's why they're gravitating to this content. That's why there's a surge online, because people want to consume it. And if you don't want to, that's fine. There's also the other end of the spectrum, which is your tradwife Content and then there's stuff in the middle. There's something for everyone. I just don't think we should come at it with this, you know, black and white lens, that this girl boss era shouldn't exist, or everything that's attached to this is toxic. And I have to break up with that belief because my, as I've said, my feelings around the girl boss thing is negative because of what it was in 2010. I think there has to be a reframing and a change and an embracing of this, but in a way where it's like we've learned from that. It can still exist now.

[A]

Yeah, for me, I don't want the term girl boss back. I don't think it has great connotations. I liken it to words like gatekeep, gaslight, girls, girl. All these things that we've somehow once empowering that we've now made really negative and really loaded when it's thrown around, oh, you gay people. Like, oh, you're not a girl's girl. Like, for me, this iteration is just women having ambition and not tearing or critiquing what a woman's interpretation of that is for her. For someone who is building an app who needs to physically put in the hours to code, they might do a 12 hour day. That doesn't mean that they're like coming to attack your work life balance. The same way that someone who might be so productive at doing what they do and can cram it into a six hour day and be there for school pickup with her kids or who can also make content of her day that day isn't coming to attack your 12 hour day. And I think the outrage of a video that comes to my mind so clearly is Kim Kardashian saying no one wants to work. It feels like no one wants to fucking work. And look, Kim Kardashian has chefs and cooks and access and privilege to things that none of us will ever have access to. Like, I feel pretty confident no one on this podcast will ever get to that mean that. Not. That's not to mean you can't like have the ambition. I hope you get their girls.

[C]

But do you know what though? On the other, other end of the spectrum and like talking about this is how quickly outrage is moving, right? I'm not sure if you saw Emily Blunt do press for the Devil was Prada and a lot of the cut down from the question she was asked around, what would you say to someone? And again, I'm like butchering this, but this is like what I Remember from it is she was asked, what advice would you give someone who wasn't loving their work or, you know, happy in their job? And she was like, quit it. And then this surge of criticism that she got for saying, like, do something that you love. And like a very watery, media trained answer. Like there wasn't really. It was like platitudes, really.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But the surge of criticism that she got for that. So you've got two examples here, the Kim Kardashian one and the Emily Blunt one. Completely different ends of the spectrum. Completely different answers. Like, what do we want?

[A]

Because work is such a big part of your life, whether you feel you have balance or not, the reality is your you're probably spending more time there than you are with your family and friends. To talk about it or to investigate it feels like an attack. And so I think both of those spectrums, telling you to work harder and telling you to quit, it feels like you're intruding on someone's biggest part of their life. Whether you identify as your job or you don't, you spend the majority of your time there.

[C]

Wet's just let that content be out there if you don't like it. We all have agency. I say no to content I don't like. What is it? Not interested on the app.

[A]

Not interested. Like if it doesn't concern you or you don't like it, you don't have to consume it, don't have to be outraged by it. Slide along.

[C]

And that doesn't mean we don't have to have discourse about it. That is healthy, that is constructive. But I think both of these things can exist.

[A]

Well, safe to say Girl Boss is back, but hopefully looking a little different this time.

[C]

Slightly different.

[A]

I hope it's a bit more than slightly. That was a rather pessimistic tone to end on Rhiannon Joyce, but that's all for this Friday's episode. And I think this will probably be a continual live conversation.

[C]

I don't think our chat's over. I feel like we have more to say. So maybe we come back to this at a point down the track.

[A]

Yeah. That's when I know we have a good app.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Is when there's more to say or that I think it's still a live conversation. Stay tuned.

[C]

Feel free to email style-ishameless media.com or

[B]

sign into our DMS over at Style

[C]

Ishpod to keep chatting to us. We love hearing from you. If you want us to chat. I don't know what. What other topics do you think we should be covering next?

[B]

You can drop us a DM or a little email.

[C]

Thanks to our show producers, head of

[B]

podcast, Lucy Hunt and our wonderful senior producer, Kate Emma Burke, who we have in the room with us. We'll be back in your ears next Wednesday.

[A]

See you then.

[C]

Bye.

[B]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

[D]

Very exciting news. Australian Fashion Week is back this May and Stylish is on board as an official media partner for 2026. From the 11th to the 15th, Sydney's MCA will come to life as a central hub. And it's shaping up to be something really special. Led by the Australian Fashion Council, this new chapter is all about bringing industry and audiences together while spotlighting the incredible talent that's coming out of Australia right now. From emerging talent to the designers we already know and love, it's more than just shows, it's access, it's energy, and it's a front row seat to where fashion is heading next. Trust me, you're going to want to be in the room. Hit the link in our show notes to find out more. You can grab a ticket for a show or register for our very own Stylish panel event. We absolutely cannot wait to see you there.