Is this beauty controversy on your feed, too?

Summary

STYLE-ISH Podcast: “Is this beauty controversy on your feed, too?”
Host: Shameless Media
Episode Date: June 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, the Style-ish team dives headfirst into three key topics dominating the fashion and beauty worlds right now:

• The internet-breaking Dua Lipa wedding and its fashion moments
• The growing phenomenon of landing jobs via social media
• An in-depth unpacking of the Patrick Ta "Transitional Blush" controversy, exploring issues of creative credit and representation in beauty

The conversation is rich with personal anecdotes, pop culture commentary, industry insights, and meaningful debate on current beauty trends and controversies.

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1. Dua Lipa’s Wedding: A Modern Fashion Fairy Tale (00:17 - 05:53)

Key Discussion Points

• Fandom & Wedding Obsession:

  • All the hosts express their delight and borderline-obsession with Dua and her partner’s love story.
  • Naima describes jumping out of bed to see the wedding photos (“The first photo. Magical. Yeah, magical.” — Naima, 00:42)

• How Dua Met Callum:

  • The romantic meet-cute: both reading the same book in a café (00:27)
  • “He said, looks like we're on the same page.” — Maddie, 01:35

• The Dress & Chanel’s Creative Leap:

  • The intricacies of Dua’s custom Chanel wedding dress by Matou Blazy: 480,000 beads, 25,000 feathers, a six-meter veil, feathers in the hair (Joanna, 02:23).
  • “And one hot bitch wearing it.” — Maddie, 02:35
  • The panel agrees this is a fun, fresh direction for Chanel (“I think we're seeing Chanel have fun for the first time. I don't think Karl Lagerfeld would have ever made this dress.” — Maddie, 03:26)

• The Non-Vogue Photo Drop & Bookish Details:

  • Dua skipped the traditional Vogue exclusive, dropping wedding content straight to Instagram.
  • The literary motif continued with books at the wedding's welcome drinks (Naima, 04:57).

• Wedding Fashion Recap:

  • Vintage Versace, Schiaparelli courthouse look, custom Bottega: the panel admires the fashion curation.

• A Love Story for the Internet Age:

  • The hosts agree the wedding and the couple’s internet documentation are intoxicating and inspiring (“They've got the je ne sais quoi, that's for sure.” — Maddie, 05:51).

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2. What’s Hot Right Now: Hosts’ Fixations & Recs (06:22 - 12:22)

Maddie’s Pick: A Tearjerker Netflix Rom-Com

• Maddie raves about a new film (“It is so fucking funny and so fucking sad. And I sobbed and I laughed and I sobbed and I laughed.” — Maddie, 07:06), ranking it among her all-time favorites.

Naima’s Pick: Sheer Knee-High Socks

• A winter fashion must for petite women, letting you wear warmer-weather pieces through strategic layering: “Sheer knee high sock always works because there's a little bit of a gap in between your dress or your skirt and the socks.” — Naima, 09:15

Joanna’s Pick: Rare Beauty Brow Harmony Lifting Gel

• “It's actually really fucking good… it really holds them down, but they're not stiff and crunchy, which I don't like.” — Joanna, 11:17
• Sparked a group chat about brow routines and cultish product loyalty.

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3. Should We Be Landing Jobs via Social Media? (13:55 - 25:10)

The Social CV Trend

• Viral Career Pitches:

  • The hosts discuss creators pitching for jobs publicly—sometimes landing gigs, sometimes risking public rejection.
  • Example: Nimi Mehta’s World Cup campaign (“…she launched a one woman social campaign… it gained like millions of views…she's officially landed a role as an official fanbassador for Visa at the FIFA World Cup.” — Joanna, 15:09)

• Community-Built Candidates — The ‘People’s Princess’ Problem:

  • Risk of brands being pressured to hire fan favourites who may not be qualified—how to balance authenticity, skillset, and audience expectations (Naima, 19:36).
  • Maddie on brand risk: “The rejection becomes public.” — Maddie, 20:41

• Ethics & Exposure:

  • Candidates open themselves to more scrutiny and potential backlash (Joanna, 21:00).
  • In creative roles, video applications showcase skills better than traditional CVs.

• Discussion of Standout Examples:

  • Brands like Jagger and Stone, Remy by Riley, and All For Mimi leverage social campaigns for hiring.
  • Bailey’s viral TikTok application for All For Mimi becomes an industry touchstone (“It was very funny. So you saw his personality up front, and it was addressed straight to Soph as well… it cut through.” — Naima, 23:21)

• Industry Limitations:

  • The panel agrees this only works in creative industries. “Imagine if it became a thing. Like, to get into the police force, you had to do like, a video on TikTok.” — Joanna, 24:59

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4. DEEP DIVE: Patrick Ta “Transitional Blush” Controversy (26:14 - 45:18)

The Timeline

Origins

• Patrick Ta, celebrity makeup artist, releases “Transitional Blush” duos, promoting the trending gradient “transition blush” technique (27:01).
• The technique, while not new, has been popularized recently by Black makeup artist Painted by Esther (Gozi Edema).

Online Uproar

• Social media accuses Patrick Ta of co-opting Esther’s signature look without credit or collaboration (29:04).
• Notably, Black creators have historically not received due credit in beauty (“A lot of time, black creators, brand founders, are not often credited for their work, their origins, their popularity, or their role in things like this re emerging.” — Maddie, 31:15).

Deeper Concerns: Credit, Trademark, and Representation

• Patrick Ta’s company applied for a US trademark on “transition blush.”
• The hosts discuss the fine legal and ethical lines: trademarking the product name vs. the technique, and potential business consequences for Esther and others (“The name is part of the technique.” — Naima, 35:26).

Evidence & Receipts

• Only after backlash did Patrick Ta credit Painted by Esther in a TikTok (caption only, not video)—after several product videos had already gone live (36:36, 36:57).

Painted by Esther’s Response

• Emotional callout for credit, not ownership:

• “What I did do and what you will not belittle is my influence, baby.” — Painted by Esther, 38:03

• Panel supports the gravity behind Esther’s viewpoint, connecting it to the long-standing issue of Black creativity being overlooked or appropriated (“…whether you agree that Patrick Ta should have made that product or not, you can't deny that this was popularized by her. And she's deeply hurt by this and very justified in that hurt.” — Maddie, 38:10).

Patrick Ta’s Apology & Brand Response

• Patrick describes the pain and learning from both the Painted by Esther situation and a previous payment controversy involving Black creator Ivona Sunshine (32:24, 41:19), saying:

  • “I'm really sorry for, like, I am genuinely sorry for, like, the hurt and the frustration that I have caused and that for anyone who has ever felt, like, overlooked or not recognized on, like, their contributions, like, that was never my intent.” — Patrick Ta, 42:18

• The hosts analyze the messaging and PR strategy (longform podcast apology, emphasis on founder voice rather than short social post).

Broader Impacts

• The panel breaks down the far-reaching consequences of trademarking trends, the burden on Black and POC creators, and brand accountability.
  • “To create such recognition around a makeup technique or a style, that takes a lot of work, like, to actually be recognized.” — Joanna, 38:56
  • “There's a long history of that happening in the beauty space, particularly in the beauty space.” — Naima, 45:18

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “And one hot bitch wearing it.” — Maddie on Dua’s wedding dress (02:35)
• “Looks like we're on the same page.” — Callum Turner to Dua Lipa (01:35)
• “You cannot trademark a technique. I trademarked the name.” — Patrick Ta (34:22)
• “I'm getting tired of constant chitter chatter. It's annoying…it would be ludicrous of me to claim ownership for anything. But what I did do and what you will not belittle is my influence, baby.” — Painted by Esther (38:03)
• “That rejection becomes public.” — Maddie, on public job pitches (20:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Dua Lipa wedding/fashion analysis: 00:17 – 05:53
• Hosts’ obsessions (film, fashion, beauty recs): 06:22 – 12:22
• Getting jobs via social media: 13:55 – 25:10
• Patrick Ta “Transitional Blush” controversy deep dive: 26:14 – 45:18

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Tone and Takeaways

The Style-ish team balances enthusiastic banter with incisive industry commentary, providing accessible explanations, personal perspectives, and context for the wider cultural issues behind the headlines. Their take on the Patrick Ta/Esther controversy is especially in-depth, exploring authenticity, systemic biases, and the future of creative credit in beauty.

For listeners interested in the collision of style, online culture, and ethics in the beauty industry—this is essential listening.

Transcript

[Maddie]

Shameless media.

[Kate]

This episode of Stylish is sponsored by Aura, the world's smallest smart ring for sleep cycle tracking activity and women's health.

[Joanna Fleming]

Dua Lipa's wedding.

[Maddie]

Dua Lipa's wedding. Just Dua.

[Joanna Fleming]

Just like that. I know that you usually speak first, but I'm just gonna cut in and go straight to the wedding.

[Maddie]

Let's discuss, I don't know, usually anything. My name was in our run sheet since the dawn of time. It was Maddie to intro Stylish and then when names disappeared in the run sheet, it was. Everyone still looked at me to intro it.

[Joanna Fleming]

And now we're here.

[Maddie]

We're here. What did we all think?

[Naima Fatima]

I jumped out of bed on Sunday because I was like, this needs to go on social right now. I was actually devastated. I was like, oh, this went up at 10 o' clock and I went to sleep at like 9:30 on a Saturday night. I know. How dare you not be awake at all times, to be honest. I am gl. I, like, wasn't out and about, like at a bar being like, yes, perfect time to post this Jewel of Peeps wedding. Yeah. The first photo. Magical. Yeah, magical.

[Maddie]

I love them in a way that is not healthy. And I know we're going to talk about the wedding dress, but I think let's talk about just them as well.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

Because how they met, for those who don't know, their story is. And I say their story, I believe them.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

Was that they were sitting at a cafe and they were reading the same book and he asked, what are you up to? And she replied with the chapter. And he said, looks like we're on the same page.

[Joanna Fleming]

I didn't know this. Did you know I'm a big do a fan? I did not. I've never even, like, looked up how they met.

[Maddie]

I'm a big Callum Turner fan after that. That is Riz Master, if ever I've seen it.

[Joanna Fleming]

How long would they be together?

[Maddie]

Don't know.

[Joanna Fleming]

Because, like, how would he have not known who Dua Lipa was? Surely he's like, wow, this woman is.

[Maddie]

Oh, he knew who. He knew exactly who she was. I don't think that's at play here.

[Naima Fatima]

I think they'd met once before at like a bar, maybe like a year ago. And then they ran into each other in LA and they were kind of, I think, solo there and they. And he was like, oh, like, what book are you reading? What book? And it was the same book and they were on the same page. He was probably on, like, Service 95's page being like, what book is she

[Maddie]

reading at the moment?

[Naima Fatima]

How do I get in?

[Maddie]

This segue is so good for my spot, but I'm going to save it. What did we think? Because this is Chanel's first matour blazey

[Joanna Fleming]

real life ride and I have to flag as well. 480,000 beads, 25,000 feathers. Wrap your head around. That's a lot of embellishments.

[Maddie]

And one hot bitch wearing it.

[Joanna Fleming]

Exactly, exactly. And a six meter veil I think she had.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Naima Fatima]

And the feathers in the hair.

[Joanna Fleming]

The feathers in the hair. Honestly, it's those little details, isn't it? That just makes the whole look so much more unique.

[Maddie]

And this isn't the first time Chanel has worked with Dua Lipa. She was the face of the Chanel. I think it's the Chanel 25 bag. And I remember it wasn't a campaign, but there was footage of her and him like spinning around underneath the Eiffel Tower at some stupid AM o'.

[Kate]

Clock.

[Maddie]

They're like clearly a bit drunk and he's just like twirling around and I

[Naima Fatima]

was listening to no music.

[Maddie]

It honestly could have been a Chanel ad. Yeah, they could have recreated it. I still stand by Chanel team should have done that. That was like a bit of a, you know, Calvin Klein moment again for me where I was like, fucking give me what I want.

[Naima Fatima]

But maybe they're playing the long game.

[Maddie]

Wedding dress, they're like, don't wor. We've got the big white dress. I thought this was so her. But so Matt will blazey as well. Like he is so about fun and intricacy. And I think we're seeing Chanel have fun for the first time. I don't think Karl Lagerfeld would have ever made this dress.

[Naima Fatima]

No, she's just such a girl. Like Even her caption, Mr. And Ms. Like, I was like, oh, you're my friend. Like, this dump is perfect. The carousel curation perfect. And like even the little caption. And I love that she did not go to vogue. She just said, here, Instagram have it.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

She's like, give the people what they want. I have a fan theory that she actually got sick of seeing all of those putrid dresses that AI kept putting on. Fuck this shit. I want you guys to know that I'm actually wearing Chanel, not this strapless bubble hem number you've created for me.

[Naima Fatima]

And what about the run up of outfits, the vintage Versace, which was originally worn by Kate Moss on the Runway. Then we went into the courthouse look, which was the Schiaparelli. The two piece. Amazing. Then we had the custom Bottega. The leather, like we loved. Low back, amazing.

[Joanna Fleming]

His hand on a back and there's

[Naima Fatima]

all these videos of them on the honeymoon. And he's still like the amount of

[Joanna Fleming]

like photos I've seen of him just like fully loved up. Like he's spinning her around. Like these two just really love each other. And it's so nice to see there's

[Naima Fatima]

a photo of her like lying literally on top of him.

[Nimmy (Nimi Mehta)]

Right.

[Naima Fatima]

Reading a book. And it's like, you guys are so in love. I'm obsessed with it.

[Maddie]

It's so hot.

[Naima Fatima]

Back to the book. Note point. Did you see that in their, like welcome drinks, they had all these bookshelves with books on it to like tie back to how they.

[Joanna Fleming]

I did not see.

[Maddie]

Jo.

[Naima Fatima]

It's all in the details.

[Maddie]

I'm like, like, I know they were like breadcrumbs of what the actual wedding looked like, but I'm dying to say that. But from a wedding dress perspective, I actually don't think anyone could have worn this but her. And that might be the unpopular thing. When everyone's like, gag. This is going like the next bridal trend. I'm like, respectfully, I disagree. I don't think that everyone is going to be wearing this dress because that is a jewelry, but that is a pop stars wedding dress.

[Joanna Fleming]

Agreed.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah. And spectacular photos. I love that she went for a fashion photographer too. Yeah. Like David Sims, I think took the photos and I just think the photos are so them. Like all the ones where they're like, not just smiling, like actually just pulling faces, I think. I don't know, just. I love them.

[Maddie]

Yeah, they've got the je ne sais quoi, that's for sure.

[Joanna Fleming]

And on that note, should we introduce who's here today and what we're doing?

[Maddie]

Go, Jo.

[Naima Fatima]

In case you're wondering.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay, this is Stylish, the podcast for fashion brand Beauty. Is that everything? Lifestyle. Sorry, almost forgot it. I have Madison Sullivan Thorpe to my right. And I have Naima Fatima to my left. Hello. And I am Joanna Fleming. There you go.

[Maddie]

So there you go. I don't always enjoy this podcast, do I now?

[Joanna Fleming]

Not anymore. The swap before we get into what's on today.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Naima Fatima]

All right.

[Maddie]

You're looking at me first.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

I don't watch a lot of television, but when I do, I lock the fuck in.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Maddie]

Voice notes to Isabel.

[Naima Fatima]

This has been all over my head.

[Maddie]

Has chemically changed my Brain. Now, one thing that you should know about me that you could probably guess after my infatuation is really the only word for it of off campus is that I love love. And the only thing I love more than love is a rom com. What I'm establishing is rom coms specifically written by women are my forte. But fun facts about me. I watch how to Lose a guy in 10 days every year. I watch the holiday about three times a year. They're my comfort shows. I'm gonna go as far as to say I would put this movie alongside crazy stupid Love, how to Lose a guy in 10 days and the holiday.

[Joanna Fleming]

Wait, so is this a movie? Not a series.

[Maddie]

It's a movie. It's a two hour movie on Netflix and it is a love letter to the power of love. The very complex intersection relationship with grief and how love and grief kind of symbiotically coexist and opening yourself up to love and just a yearning man. We always love a man who is in yearning. And it is so fucking funny and so fucking sad. And I sobbed and I laughed and I sobbed and I laughed. And I'd done our social event the day before. We had a social club event at upstate and my abs were a bit sore cause of that. And then they're a bit sore cause of laughing. And then I was sobbing and then it finished and then I just sobbed some more for half an hour. And usually I have to watch the Holiday or Marley and meet a force cry. So now I have unlocked a new cry show.

[Naima Fatima]

Perfect new one to the repertoire.

[Maddie]

Just there's Taylor Swift songs in it. One of the Haim sisters was one of the music consultants on it. For what? I'll just. Oh, Chef kiss. All of it. 10 out of 10. No fucking notes. We haven't seen a rom com this good since the early noughties.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay.

[Naima Fatima]

Love it. It's been all over my TikTok.

[Nimmy (Nimi Mehta)]

It's beautiful.

[Naima Fatima]

I do feel like I've seen a lot of it. And again by clips by a TikTok, to be honest.

[Maddie]

Don't ruin it with the TikTok.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

Commit to the bit.

[Naima Fatima]

Okay.

[Maddie]

Lock in. Watch the full two hours. I text the same girlfriend that is usually behind Christina. Very, very behind in TV shows. I recommend she did watch off campus. When I said, I said to her, lock in. And I'm going to need you to stick on the train of watching things as they're live. Don't let tick tock ruin it.

[Joanna Fleming]

No, let's swap.

[Naima Fatima]

Mine's not as emotional. Mine are Sheer socks. I've got a new, like, hyper fixation in my modeling today.

[Maddie]

With a leg up. And actually you're in a. I'm like, how do I not upskirt you?

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah. Whoever's clipping this just blur. So I've got a new winter styling hyper fixation, and they are sheer knee high socks. I find, like, full length black tights can make me look short. I am 5 foot 2 and which is the average height of an Australian woman. So actually just average height.

[Joanna Fleming]

Is it really?

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah. Oh, so you can see that that's a chip on my shirt. Yeah.

[Maddie]

All I heard in that sentence was, maddie, you're tall.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah, exactly.

[Maddie]

And I'm a giant supermodel.

[Naima Fatima]

I'd go with, I'm actually giant for a Bangladeshi woman. That's like, they're very small. I find that, yeah. Sheer kind of tights. I need to wear, like a heel with to feel comfortable in or make me feel like I don't look short. And I very rarely wear a heel. I am a loafer girl. I'm a flats girl. I'm like, pretty constantly in either of those or like a sneaker. But I find that a sheer knee high sock always works because there's a little bit of a gap in between your dress or your skirt and the socks. And I think they're my new, like, just a. They add just a little bit of interest to a winter outfit.

[Joanna Fleming]

Does your little knee get cold?

[Naima Fatima]

No, because we work in an office with all women and the heater is always on about 25 degrees.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay. Yep. Just wandering on the commute, you know.

[Nimmy (Nimi Mehta)]

Yeah.

[Naima Fatima]

I've got a big coat on, obviously. Yeah, that solves that problem. Coat on. And I also catch a train, so it's like I'm always in, like, multiple different temperatures at all points of time. I think you get to winter and you're a bit like, I don't know what to wear. You're kind of wearing the same stuff all the time. But I found this is an easy way to bring in some of my more summery, more spring items into winter with these socks.

[Painted by Esther]

Great.

[Maddie]

Little trans. Seasonal. And I can attest you look quite tall.

[Naima Fatima]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Maddie]

Because I am tall in spirit and with a sheer high knee sock. Jo, what have you got for us?

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, I've been using the same clear brow gel for, I want to say, like, not the same exact tube. I have swapped tubes. But I've been using the benefit one really consistently for, like, years and haven't really ventured away from it. But I Ran out of it. And so I got the Rare Beauty Brow Harmony Flexible Lifting Gel in clear. It does come in different colors as well, so you can get ones with a little bit of tint to them. But I got the clear one and it's actually really fucking good. Like, it really holds them down, but they're not stiff and crunchy, which I don't like. I don't like that real crunchy look. I kind of want them to still look quite flexible. I got very long eyebrow hairs.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

One thing about me, you've really got to trim them down.

[Naima Fatima]

I was just going to take. Your eyebrows look great.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, thank you.

[Naima Fatima]

Do you have the.

[Joanna Fleming]

I do. I have the stuff in now. I don't tend to fill my eyebrows in very often. Like, I don't really use a pencil that often, to be fair. Maybe if I have, like a full face of glam on.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

But otherwise it's just a little bit of clear brow gel. But, yeah, they hold them down really well.

[Maddie]

I did see a photo of you the other day and I thought, she's got good eyebrows.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, thanks. It was probably this.

[Maddie]

There you go.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, there you go.

[Maddie]

Watch me add that to Cart.

[Naima Fatima]

I've got, like, wig glue to get mine up. I've got the got to be glued stuff, which is, like, originally for wigs. And that's what I use in my brows because I've got such bushy.

[Joanna Fleming]

Like, they're wild sometimes. They've really got a mind of their own.

[Naima Fatima]

Really stick them down.

[Maddie]

I've only just started using brow gel for the first time in 31 years. I just. And they're big. There's a lot of them.

[Painted by Esther]

It's not.

[Maddie]

I just think I haven't probably cared enough. It's probably not because I didn't need it.

[Joanna Fleming]

What were you doing before?

[Maddie]

They just sort of lived.

[Joanna Fleming]

They just existed.

[Kate]

Wow.

[Joanna Fleming]

That's amazing.

[Naima Fatima]

I love it.

[Maddie]

That's why they look like that and yours look like that. Okay, today we're going to be discussing whether we should be landing jobs via social media. We're going to also be unpacking the Patrick Ta Transitional Blush saga. But that's going to be right after a word from today's sponsor.

[Kate]

Hi. It's stylish senior producer Kate here. When everyone is obsessing over the same product, I'm immediately intrigued.

[Joanna Fleming]

Is this.

[Kate]

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[Joanna Fleming]

Our first headline of the day is should we be landing jobs via social media? And this is not a new concept to me. Having been someone that was heading up a whole content team, I hired people all the time via social media and kind of finding their profiles and seeing what they were up to and then also getting them to submit videos. So that wasn't really a new process for me. But you might have seen this play out online before. Even if you're not in this industry, you know, a brand puts a call out on their socials and they ask people to send in a video or they might have to pitch themselves via social media for the role. So they're like kind of competing for attention amongst other applicants and sometimes that really works. I actually saw a video recently from creator and sports presenter Nimi Mehta. She launched a one woman social campaign about wanting to get work at the World Cup. So she produced a video highlighting all the experience that she has in the industry. It gained like millions of views. It was actually a really good video. I really liked it the first time I saw it and then we brought it up again when we were talking about this particular segment. But she ended up landing a couple of, you know, smaller roles at the World cup despite not getting the roles that she initially, you know, went and traveled and interviewed for that she spoke about in her original video. We'll play a little bit of that for you now.

[Nimmy (Nimi Mehta)]

Most Embarrassing thing I have ever posted or the thing that changes everything if you don't know me. Hi, I'm Nimmy, I'm a sports broadcaster. Football, tennis, combat sports, work for espn, interviewed Lamina Mal, Neymar, Drogba, pk, the list really goes on. And I don't just do broadcast social media content. Millions of views. I know how to tell a story. I know how to make someone feel like they are in the moment. And now cue the embarrassment. All of this is still not enough for me to be working at the World cup in 38 days, let me tell you. I have been hustling the last eight months to make it happen. I screen tested for a major broadcaster in the region. I flew to la, actually got in front of Fox Sports meetings in London with brands, so many calls, so many connects and so still one of the biggest sporting events on the planet and I have nothing. Look, I don't just love football, I'm really bloody good at what I do and I'm already going to be in the States for the whole six weeks. So for some deluded, hopeful reason, I still believe there's a chance for me. I don't know if that's just silly, I guess with quite literally nothing to lose. Brands, partners, sponsors, looking for on ground, creators at the FIFA World cup who actually get the sport. Call me. My diary has a very suspicious gap in it. Just saying.

[Joanna Fleming]

Now, she didn't just post this video which went viral. She then followed up with multiple videos and it became like a series and people were really getting on board with it and really rooting for her to get a role at the World Cup. And she has since posted that she's officially landed a role as an official fanbassador for Visa at the FIFA World Cup.

[Maddie]

I loved this so much. I loved the initial video probably the most because I think the opening line that she says is, this is going to be either really embarrassing or. And in the Stephen Bartlett interview where he says embarrassment is the price of success, I don't think anything resonates more. It's like, it's really embarrassing to upload something like this. She's had to admit that she's had all these calls, all these test reads, all of these interviews and she still hasn't landed something. And it's like, okay, I may not get anything out of this, but I'm going to give it a red hot go. And I love that that went viral. But I think one viral video can sometimes be brought down to luck. So the fact that she did this six week series, multiple videos in this winning format.

[Naima Fatima]

I think I counted it was somewhere between 15 to 20 videos. That's a lot of work.

[Maddie]

Yeah, a lot of work. But also what it does is showcase her ability to communicate and storytell, which if you are going to be a presenter or an ambassador or a content creator, you have to be able to do. And I think she did it so superbly again in that winning format where a lot of the mechanics and you know, format was the same. It was really, really clever.

[Naima Fatima]

The song she used, the same song, she used the XX song over and over again. So you knew exactly what was coming when she posted the video. So even something as simple as that, she's such a content person. I love that stuff.

[Maddie]

Now obviously this is it on a global scale. We're talking about the FIFA World cup, but we have seen this happen a lot, especially locally for roles, particularly in social media. What are some brands that come to mind when you think about this?

[Joanna Fleming]

Jagger and Stone. Jazz Handmade Remy by Riley.

[Maddie]

All for Mimi.

[Joanna Fleming]

Sofa Dofa. Yeah, yeah, all for Mimi.

[Naima Fatima]

We saw it with the brand was overseas but the person applying was local. Zara Jarvis. I saw a lot of her journey on Instagram but then I saw like the kind of final like wrap up on LinkedIn and I, I felt so much pride about that. I was like, go girl. She like flew over there within like 24 hours. Yeah. From memory that's a whirlwind situation.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

And I remember her uploading a video of telling her boss. Yes. Like imagine having to be like, hey, so might still need this job. Yeah, but gonna go apply for that one and gonna need annual leave as of tomorrow.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

When you see this kind of content, I feel like what often happens is there is kind of like the people's person that the community and audience will all kind of rally behind to support. Do you kind of see a risk for brands or a reward for brands with that happening?

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah, I, it does stress me out a little bit if I'm being perfectly honest.

[Maddie]

Can I ask, does it stress you out for the person creating it or the brand?

[Naima Fatima]

Both. I mean I am such an advocate for shooting your shot and like getting rid of the cringe of it all. Part of me getting a job here was because I posted online, like because I posted TikToks, because I talked online, because I gave it a shot and I was a contributor here. So mine wasn't as like I didn't go viral and there wasn't like a groundswell campaign to get me employed here. But I am such an advocate for posting the thing online and giving it a go because who knows what might come of it. And the worst thing that could happen is that zero people see it. You know, but from a brand perspective, the thing that stresses me out a little bit is what if there is this groundswell where you've essentially got like the people's princess. Right. Like someone that people are really going behind, but when you get to the interview stage or the actual skill set stage, they're actually not that matched to the role.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Naima Fatima]

What happens then?

[Maddie]

Well, then the rejection becomes public.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

And it feels like the brand's rejecting the person rather than a HR department rejecting the role, which is essentially how it does work in the real world. When someone doesn't get a role, it's just privately done behind closed doors.

[Joanna Fleming]

And there's a risk as well of opening up these potential candidates or eventual employees to backlash online or like a bit of hatred and negativity online that maybe they didn't realize they were signing up for when they put their video up to be part of the hiring process is that they, everyone else might really love someone else that's applied for the role that has created the content. And then you've got kind of like the enemy.

[Maddie]

It's like, are you new here? Yeah, literally.

[Joanna Fleming]

But that is a big risk, not only for the brand because they're opening themselves up to that, but they're also opening up a potential candidate to that who might be really well suited to the role. And then they give that person the role and everyone's like, fuck that person.

[Naima Fatima]

I haven't seen you.

[Maddie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, we lost our people's princess and now we got you. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. That is a really good point. Joy. Had even thought of that. One thing that I always think though, is the risk of not having something like that for roles like social media or brand or things that might be a little bit more creatively fueled, like design or content creation. Because I think if you are in a social media role, being limited to a CV that most of the time now is either sitting in a HR inbox or running through AI driven platforms to filter out is not the truest display of what you will be doing day to day and how your creativity shines.

[Joanna Fleming]

Agree.

[Maddie]

Which is why any time I've ever worked with any brand, I'm like, case study, case study, case study, case study. I don't think that in order to be successful in hiring someone to run your social channels, you need to run a public campaign.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

But I do understand how the campaign is so funny.

[Naima Fatima]

It's like a full election.

[Maddie]

And also, this is really smart from a brand perspective as well, because look at all for Mimi and Bailey.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

Daniel from Girls with Gems and Bailey from All for Mimi. I think my two crushes, like, my Internet crushes.

[Joanna Fleming]

I absolutely love the relationship between Soph and Bailey as well. Like, obviously, you know, she's the employer and he's the employee, but they just come across as best friends.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Which is really nice. And it's very endearing to watch on socials as well.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Naima Fatima]

I would say also, Bailey made something that was very unique. It's something that you probably are seeing across more and more people now. But I think Bailey was the first to make it in the Australian landscape. So he had an unique idea that, to be honest, like, you might have thought was cringe, but he made it cool.

[Maddie]

If anyone hasn't seen it. Do you want to recap?

[Naima Fatima]

He took a really native route to TikTok, and it was Social media Assistant, and he was talking to the camera. He had all these transitions. It was very funny. So you saw his personality up front, and it was addressed straight to Soph as well. You know, it was like something different and it cut through. I don't think if someone made that again now, it would have the same groundswell effect.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's also just a great way to see a personality hire.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Like, to immediately go, they're gonna be a culture fit. Yes. We can teach you on the job.

[Maddie]

You know, and it is that generation, though. And not to dis millennials. Cause I'm not saying we can't do it, but I just think Gen Z have been brought up on this idea that by having an idea, creating a piece of content, packaging it up to storyteller, and have it in a really, like, visually appealing format is their DNA. So it is of the piece. Perfect way for them to shoot their shot and showcase. Like, it's interesting that you say you don't think it could happen again, because I do think for the right brand, if you kind of shot it in a way, I feel like we've seen it in this FIFA instance. Like, what would it be to be like, hey, you know, I don't know, Louis, I'm gonna raise my legs every day for a week and tell you why I'm the best to run your social channels. If they were hiring, there has to

[Naima Fatima]

be, like, a specific idea. Like, I think there's been multiple circumstances where people have Tried to copy and paste Bailey, like here. There has to be some sort of cut through because it's like on TikTok, people see stuff all the time. There has to be something that's a little bit different about it to come through. The thing that makes me laugh a little bit is I cannot see this maybe happening for, like, an accounts payable person.

[Joanna Fleming]

This only applies to media and marketing roles. There is no other industry this would be appropriate.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Imagine if it became a thing. Like, to get into the police force, you had to do like, a video on TikTok.

[Naima Fatima]

He'd like. It's like on zero. Like, this is how I.

[Maddie]

This is how quickly I touch time.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Next we're talking about the Patrick Ta Transitional blush controversy. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. If your makeup philosophy is less is more, Merit Beauty will become the new MVP of your morning routine. Their whole approach is about simplifying your routine with curated essentials that make getting ready feel effortless, polished, and quick. A couple of products I've been loving are the great skin serum, which honestly is all you need for a no makeup day. The minimalist foundation stick has gone viral because it replaces both foundation and concealer. You just need to swipe on where you need it. You can blend it in with your fingers. And I can't not mention the flush balm blush for a natural dewy finish. One was sold every 30 seconds in 2024. That's how good it is. It really is that easy. A full routine that takes five minutes but still makes you feel put together. And if you want to try all of our favorites in one go, every single one of these products is included in Merit's bestsellers. Set Elevated Makeup in less than five minutes. Visit meritbeauty.com that's me, R. And don't forget to claim your free signature makeup bag when you place your first order. Thank you so much, Demerit, for making this episode of stylish possible.

[Maddie]

Okay, so I'm going to be the one responsible for taking us through the Patrick Ta Blush controversy that's been playing out online. There's been a lot of conversation, there's been a lot of debate and a lot of opinion and a lot of facts. And today what we want to do is not necessarily give more opinions, but dissection all the nuances and conversations that are happening online.

[Joanna Fleming]

Because I was struggling to follow the story a little bit, I saw, like, little bits and pieces, and I'm like, hang on, wait. How's this person involved. And so this is. I need this recap.

[Maddie]

It was a very big moment of the meme with all the red strings, and we were sort of going, do we cover it? Don't we cover it? And then we went, hang on, let's do, like a bit of a chronological order of events.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, he did the interview with Emma Greed, and I think that's what got us talking again, because it kind of passed us. And then we were like, hang on a second, let's rewind. We're going to come back to this.

[Maddie]

Exactly. And perfect place to start. Joyce. So Patrick Tarr appeared on Emma Grade's podcast last week. On the podcast, he spoke about both his career and business journey, as well as all of the recent online controversy between him and makeup artists painted by Esther. So if you're wondering how this all sort of started, in late May, celebrity makeup artist Patrick Ta, in his namesake brand, released a collection called Transition Blush, featuring Blush duos. If you haven't heard of what a transition blush is before, it's a makeup technique that creates a really soft, lifted gradient look between your under eye concealer and cheek blush.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's like ombre between your. Yeah, it starts almost at the start of your eye.

[Maddie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Naima Fatima]

And it's like one big shot, like a gradient from, like, eye to cheek. It's like blush.

[Maddie]

Yeah. I love the word ombre. Yeah, Love that joke. So according to the cut, they described it as a seamless transition from one product to the next, leaving a complexion that appears airbrushed, sculpted and flushed, or our conversion ombre. So Patrick Ta is very much known for blush duos. I think if you asked the average beauty gal what, you know, you think of when you think Patrick Ta, those sort of cream and powder blush duos.

[Joanna Fleming]

I do have one of them at home.

[Maddie]

You like it?

[Joanna Fleming]

I do, yes.

[Maddie]

Okay, great. I haven't. I don't. I have never tried it.

[Naima Fatima]

Sells a blush every three minutes.

[Maddie]

Oh, wow.

[Naima Fatima]

Fun fact.

[Maddie]

Yeah, look. And in the podcast episode with Emma Grade, she did refer to him him as the Blush guy. So, you know, this isn't just our opinion. It's very much what he's known for in the beauty world. Once that collection launched, things kind of turned pretty quickly online via social media. And according to the same article I referenced earlier, they said Tar seems to have designed his new products specifically for a technique which was popularized by Gozi Esther Edema, who is best known as Painter by Esther, a makeup artist very much known for this doll, like Blush Glamour. And he's getting criticism for not crediting her enough during the rollout. We'll use her username Painted by Esther throughout the segment because that's how she likes to be referred to online.

[Joanna Fleming]

She sometimes even says pbe.

[Maddie]

Yeah, it's a bit like how I go by mst. You know, there's one piece we want to kind of earmark here, which is that Painted by Esther didn't create this technique or name this term, and she

[Joanna Fleming]

doesn't claim to as well. She's very specific about not claiming to have come up with this technique.

[Maddie]

And it's actually other makeup artists from way back when, you know, famous names like Kevin Aucoin, Danessa, Mirrix and Pat McGrath that she's very much credited as the inspiration behind this. If you haven't seen what Kevin Aquan is known and done, I really urge you to check it out. Like absolute innovator in this space. Just side note, you're probably thinking of a mascara at Mecca, but, like, one of the most famous names.

[Joanna Fleming]

I was thinking at the Lash Killer.

[Maddie]

Oh, yeah, okay, that too. But, you know, Gradient Blush, so to speak, isn't something that was created by Painted by Esther, but it very much is something that has been popularized in recent times and re emerged by her. And, you know, she has created that look on her celebrity clients like Love Island's Alandria and performers like Dochi and

[Naima Fatima]

Sza that I would say that's where I've seen it the most, Alandria, and that's probably a point we should touch on as well, is a lot of the people she does this technique on are people with darker skin tones, so black and brown women. And the overwhelming commentary is how beautiful this high contrast blush looks on dark skin tones. And, you know, it's this trend that really has been created for people of colour, which is, you know, doesn't happen that often. So, yeah, this was actually one that really stood out in the algorithm totally.

[Maddie]

And a lot of things now are not necessarily created by someone, but they're repopularized and brought back to the front fold by their creation.

[Naima Fatima]

Well, it's like, why am I seeing it again? Like, why am I seeing it again now? And I would say a lot of that came from Painted by Esther.

[Maddie]

Yeah. So when Patrick uploaded a tutorial using the new Transition Blush, the comments section was flooded pretty quickly, to be honest, with people accusing him of ripping off Painted by Esther. And I think it's really important we take a moment to note here that a lot of time, black creators, brand founders, are not often credited for their work, their origins, their popularity, or their role in things like this re emerging. It's not so much just the invention, it's the creation or, you know, regurgitation of something.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah. Specifically for black women, I would say they do create these, like, moments around these specific techniques. And a lot of the time they can then be popularized by someone else without the credit.

[Maddie]

Yeah. It's worth noting as well. This isn't the first time Patrick Tarrs had to make an apology for something similar. So this is back in 2024. Patrick also had to make a public apology, as reported by People to content creator Avona Sunshine after she posted a TikTok video claiming Patrick TA's brand still had not paid her. And in the video, she's snapping Tar's blushes and contour palettes in half. While she claims she never received payment for promotional work, she snaps a lot

[Joanna Fleming]

of compacts in that video.

[Maddie]

Ivona said in the video, I'm sick of seeing companies profit off the black dollar and then not paying black creators.

[Emma Greed]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

So this also got referenced in the interview by Emma Grade. And we've got the clip to play for you now.

[Patrick Ta]

I think this conversation became even bigger because several years back I had an incident with this creator. Her name is Ivana Sunshine, who is a creator that I. I met through Sephora Squad. And I loved her energy. I, like, saw her content. It was like, so authentically her. I reached out to my team to work with her on a brand level and there was a delayed payment on an invoice which was fixed. But not knowing back then how this happened, I hated that that happened. And it was really important for me to take a step back and pause for a second and really understand what happened. Realizing that this was a administrative issue, we did a complete overhaul on our accounting process to make sure that this never happens again. But I also understand that when you are building a brand, mistakes happen. Like, people are not perfect and I am not perfect.

[Maddie]

Okay, so if we bring it back to the president, Patrick Tah is then seen to be using this technique on a number of his clients, one of which is Love Island UK star Maura Higgins. But he took the additional steps of lodging an application to trademark the term transition blush with the USPTO for his product release. We're going to play another clip for you now in his response to this.

[Patrick Ta]

And when we talk about, like, the trademark issue, because that's what people have

[Emma Greed]

got their knickers in a twist about. Right. Like, people feel like the fact that you trademarked it is the overstep, like, that's the thing that's got people, like, super riled up. Apart from the fact that she's not involved and her name isn't mentioned. It's like you've gone out and taken this technique and put a trademark around it.

[Patrick Ta]

So what people don't understand, like, I did not trademark the technique. You cannot trademark a technique.

[Emma Greed]

You trademark the name.

[Patrick Ta]

I trademarked the name and I trademarked. Trademark every single product name.

[Emma Greed]

Well, and I. And I just want to. And I don't want to cut you off, but I do want to just say, so do I.

[Maddie]

And given the size and scope and scale of these brands, this is not an opinion, this is just a fact that it is very common for a brand to trademark the product's name, particularly when brands of this scale are probably looking to be sold at some point.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

I would be very shocked if Patrick Ta was not actively looking to have someone buy this brand. We are constantly on this podcast talking about who's buying what. I mean, at one point, I think we were like playing roulette about, is it l'?

[Kate]

Oreal?

[Maddie]

Is it Estee Lauder? Is it Pooj? These are very common things that big brands at scale looking to protect their IP are doing.

[Joanna Fleming]

And I will say as well, the trademark has yet to be approved too.

[Maddie]

Yes, yes. And I think that delineation that he's clearly trying to make in this episode is that he wasn't trying to trademark the technique. Yeah, but the name.

[Naima Fatima]

The name is part of the technique.

[Maddie]

Exactly.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah. I think the two things feel very tied together. I understand he's saying that they're not trademarking the technique, but it was popularised because of the name as well.

[Maddie]

1,000%. And if we're going to get really technical about this, from a law perspective, if a creator then goes and makes a video about Transitional Blushes as a paid collaboration, that's boosters and paid ad, that is technically a trademark infringement, because you could say it's implying it's that product.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, that's kind of the argument here. Right. Is that painted by Esther, then? Her income is potentially impacted by the fact that she can't go talking about this technique that she's popularised herself.

[Naima Fatima]

Very recently she had a video with Kosas where this was the technique she was talking about and referring to. There's so much work that's done before you get to a name. So I think she's done the research to test all of these things out. So by this trademark, it's not just about the product. I do think it is hindering her future collaborations and her future creativity as well.

[Maddie]

I'm going to go one step further that I wouldn't be at all surprised if she was considering making her own line.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

Been tied to that name as well.

[Naima Fatima]

Oh, you're so right. Yeah, I didn't even think about that.

[Maddie]

So.

[Joanna Fleming]

Marketing girl.

[Emma Greed]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

So on May 24, Patrick posted a TikTok he claims was filmed on March 5, where he credits Painted by Esther. I really want to note here, not in the video, but in a caption where he credits her work for popularizing the technique and that he's been doing this look since 2021 and tags her account in the caption.

[Naima Fatima]

And to clarify as well, there were at least five or six videos about this range already live on TikTok before this video went up.

[Maddie]

Exactly. This wasn't the. I'm launching it and I'm crediting her in the first of that. Yeah. So Painted by Esther then responds with a video via TikTok on the same day, responding to the situation. We've got an excerpt from that video we want to play now.

[Painted by Esther]

I'm actually getting tired of constantly being spoken for and being scared to speak because I am a black woman. If that was really a part of your thing, part of your. A key ingredient in how you do something, you would have. He would have been marketed it. Let's be for real. You know, it's not. So I'm just. I'm getting tired of constant chitter chatter. It's annoying. It's very annoying. God bless every single person that sees it for what it is. God bless every single person that sees me for what I am, that sees my work for what it is. Again, I reiterate, listen, I did not start anything. I am 29 years old. That would be ludicrous of me to claim ownership for anything. But what I did do and what you will not belittle is my influence, baby.

[Maddie]

I think that video spotlights how deeply thought out that response was. It was really raw and emotional and I think, like, so valid every corner of it. And I think whether you agree that Patrick Ta should have made that product or not, you can't deny that this was popularized by her. And she's deeply hurt by this and very justified in that. Hurt.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah, I. I can really hear how much creative effort has gone into this because this, the thing you see on Social isn't the first try. Like, she has perfected this over time. She has tried and tried again. And getting that, you know, technique perfect has taken time.

[Joanna Fleming]

And to create such recognition around a makeup technique or a style, that takes a lot of work, like, to actually be recognized. People will always say, like, oh, that's a painted by Esther look. Like, you can see who's a client of hers.

[Kate]

That's.

[Joanna Fleming]

That doesn't happen overnight. Yeah, it takes a long time.

[Maddie]

And also, her inspiration are not YouTubers. Like, Kevin Aucoin is a very. He's a deceased makeup artist.

[Naima Fatima]

References.

[Maddie]

Yes. Like, we are going back over editorials, we're going back over fashion shows, we're reading books. Like, it's not just a 4 second clip or a photo of a finished face. That is the ip, it's the expertise and time that goes into it. Look, all of this to say we're saying how recognized her work is, how prominent she is in this space. You might be sitting there wondering, well, did Patrick TA's team ever think to collaborate with her or to put her front and center in this campaign? The answer is yes, according to Patrick Tah via the podcast, he said that they did reach out about a collection collaboration, of which she declined. He said to Emma, I personally reached out to Esther, my team reached out to Esther, and unfortunately she declined the opportunity because she wasn't taking paid collaborations at the time. I really wanted to work with creators that loved Blush.

[Joanna Fleming]

May I theorise that their strategy as a brand was that they wanted to create this product and they were banking on her saying yes to that collaboration. And when she turned around and said, no, I'm not available for it, they went, oh, shit.

[Maddie]

Yeah, yeah, I completely agree.

[Naima Fatima]

I actually think that makes a lot of sense about the point you made, Mads, about if she is maybe bringing out her own range, it's like, why would I go to you? Because I've put in all the hard work.

[Joanna Fleming]

Exactly.

[Naima Fatima]

I don't want to just be a paid partnership collab post. I want to be front and center because I've done the work.

[Maddie]

Or even if she's not creating that product, I don't want you having a collection named after a phrase I've coined.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah, yeah. Going back to the episode with Emma Greed, I actually listened earlier this week and I have to be honest, I did feel like a lot of the answers were being fed to him. Not fed to him, but there was a lot of hand holding through this interview where I think when she initially throws to the apology, you can hear him kind of start to talk about it. But the actual summary, I think comes from Emma. And we're gonna play that clip.

[Patrick Ta]

This launch has been a very hard launch for me. Like, I created this, like, with, like, with like, such heart.

[Emma Greed]

And it feels to me, Patrick, like you kind of understand that launching this particular product without a mention of her influence of the techni kind of felt like an erasure of her influence. And again, I think she's been very vocal. She didn't create the technique. She's somebody that's more recently popularized the technique. But the fact that you guys went out with it in the way that you did feels like she should have somehow come up and been credited and she wasn't. And because it so frequently happens specifically with black female creators and artists, it has. It's escalated into something that is disproportionate to what you would have perhaps hoped for, considering that you went out to her. But it feels to me like there's some sense of remorse or some sense of understanding, or am I misunderstanding?

[Patrick Ta]

Yeah, I'm really sorry for, like, I am genuinely sorry for, like, the hurt and the frustration that I have caused and that for anyone who has ever felt, like, overlooked or not recognized on, like, their contributions, like, that was never my intent. My intent was only to create a product to allow people to make this technique, like, more. More accessible at home.

[Naima Fatima]

I think she didn't probably want a fluffy answer here. She wanted to kind of get to the core of what the issue was. And I'm really glad she did, you know, really steer down this avenue, to be honest. Emma's been through similar things before. She mentioned an occasion around a face mask with someone reaching out to her, saying that you've, you know, copied our product. And she said that she then reached out to them and cancelled all the products altogether. There was also the skims and kimono situation that she would have had to go through as well. So that's probably one of the reasons that I would say he's chosen to go on this podcast.

[Maddie]

I think the strategy to go on Emma Grade as a long form podcast was a very deliberate one, because I don't think the usual apology strategy that we see from brands when they mess up, which is three or four sliding Instagram stills that's usually written in the Notes app like they've poured their heart out and, you know, it's straight from the founder's mouth, would have worked in this instance, particularly not in Patrick Ta's case, because this is not the first time we have seen a controversy surrounding a black creator.

[Joanna Fleming]

And to give you a bit of a summary as well, for Those people that have listened to this whole setup and are like, wait, let me just get the. Get to the crux of it. So the issues are the trademarked name obviously limits painted by Esther's opportunities in future. The powder puff, she argues, especially in her video, why didn't he create a powder puff then? If he thinks that this is part of his usual technique that he follows, which is very signature of her technique. The other thing was copying some wording that she used in an instructional video. She used the word the back of my palm. When she said that was actually a mistake. I should have said back of my hand. But he says in his video, back of my palm as well. And she's like, that's. That's a very clear. You know, someone's watched my video very closely. And then also his business partner Reema booked Esther for a makeup application. Like a. What do they call it? Yeah, a paint and go or something.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah, it was meant to be that she would just do it and then leave. But then there was a but then

[Joanna Fleming]

the agent calls Esther before the appointment and says, well, they want to film it. Is that okay? And she says in her video, I wasn't okay with that, so I canceled the appointment because I don't normally take things on like that. So that was her kind of spidey senses going off. So there's like several different touch points that have made this escalate into what it is currently. But that is the general summary of what people are picking out. And I've gone through the comments and kind of seen all these common threads. And again, a lot of that anger is around taking something from a black creator that she should have absolutely been credited for and fairly been credited for.

[Naima Fatima]

Yeah. When there's a long history of that happening in the beauty space, particularly in the beauty space. And that's all for today's episode of Stylish. If you enjoyed this episode today, we also have a weekly Stylish newsletter that drops every Wednesday. It's a roundup of our best recommendations, our best tips, interviews. The link to sign up is in the show notes. Thank you so much to the team head of podcast, Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke. And of course, thank you to my co hosts, Maddie and Jo.

[Joanna Fleming]

And thank you, Naima, for being here.

[Naima Fatima]

Thank you much. See you next Tuesday. Next Tuesday, Wednesday.

[Maddie]

See you then.

[Naima Fatima]

Bye.

[Maddie]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land.

[Joanna Fleming]

Always was, always will be aboriginal land.