Loading summary
Transcript155 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign. This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Mile. With the arrival of by Johnny the Wolfgang, Sonia Motor and Kinney, it's a fresh new season at Mile.
- [00:20]
B
This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, lifestyle, brand and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan. My co hosts look a little different today.
- [00:28]
A
We do.
- [00:29]
B
My co hosts are Rhiannon Joyce. And today we Naima Fatima, Shameless media's head of socials, filling in for Jojo.
- [00:36]
C
I'm back.
- [00:37]
B
She's back very quickly.
- [00:39]
C
Well, again, quick succession.
- [00:40]
B
That just goes to show, debut worked very well.
- [00:42]
C
Couldn't wait to get back in.
- [00:44]
B
Yeah, we're thrilled to have you back guys.
- [00:45]
A
I'm super excited because today we're discussing Zara tapping John Galliano to design seasonal collections and what Witcher is collection with Lara Worthington tells us about celebrity collabs and fashion brands. But before we get into it because it is jam packed but we will always make space recommendations. Who's going first for the swap? This is a new Naima.
- [01:05]
B
You go. Because you know what, it just always feels right that I go second. I'm like, jo's not here. I'll just dictate that you go first.
- [01:11]
A
Okay, Naima.
- [01:11]
C
Perfect. It's an honor. I'm going to do a lip combo and I'm going to say it's for the brown girls. Often I look online, I see a lip combo. I try it on, it looks terrible on me. But this one is tried and tested and it's probably the only combo I do. Cause once I like something, I just don't know how to change it. So it's the Mecca Pout pencil in Stellar with the rimmel. Oh, my gloss. Butter me Up Lip butter. That is a really long name.
- [01:39]
A
That's quite a name as well. Dare I say butter me up.
- [01:42]
C
Butter me up in Latte Delight. And it's the, I would say the perfect day to day brown glossy combo. And I love it. And both pretty affordable.
- [01:52]
B
I'm so glad you called out the Mechamax pout pencil because I've had my makeup done professionally probably three or four times this year. Every single individual makeup artist is like it's still go like no matter what they've got in their kit, there's like very expensive lip liners in there. It's still the one they reach for. Such a good product.
- [02:09]
A
I have two on me at all times.
- [02:10]
C
Yeah, One in every handbag.
- [02:12]
A
Has to be that way. If you don't come home with your lip pencil. So sad.
- [02:16]
B
It's so, so regular, so common, so real. I saw one when it was like when you say the Holy Trinity when you wake up and it was like your keys, your phone and your lip liner and I was like, that is so real.
- [02:26]
A
So, so, so real. Mads, your swap. Go for it.
- [02:29]
B
I was going to throw to you, so you. My current obsession on my algorithm is doorman. New York City doorman. Niche, I know, but stay with me. So there's this TikTok account. Her name is Alysia Lou and she's a creator in New York. She uploaded this TikTok about her Dorman, helping with all of her unboxings and helping cut down all of the like mailboxes they come in. And that she would then divide up the PR boxes to give his wife gifts and was like learning what shades his wife loved. And now brands are sending the Dorman gifts. Anyway, now I've ended up just on Dorman algorithm and I'm obsessed with it. I love it. Like these are really like people's. It's like your barista. You build these like relationships. They're like in your day to day life. I just love it. It's so feel good. It's a side of the Internet I'm really happy to be on.
- [03:19]
A
It feels like there's this big trend at the moment where people who have accounts on TikTok are blowing up not because of them, but because of the person that is actually featured in their TikTok. Yeah, I've just noticed so many more of these. It's like by proxy and by extension this person is becoming popular even though they themselves are not the ones who are posting.
- [03:37]
B
Ray, what have you got for us? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There she is. She's pointing, going, imagine. Imagine.
- [03:41]
A
I'm on a sub stack role at the moment. I read one this morning and I
- [03:45]
B
had to share it because I also,
- [03:47]
A
I would say I'm in a mood where I just did a inherited Life Lessons episode. Plug, plug, plug. But I'm in a reflective mood as a result of that because a lot of the conversations we had in that episode centered around what I was like in my twenties versus what I am like now and the things that I do differently and how I've changed. Which brings me to my recommendations, which is Laris Mills substack. Do you guys know who this is?
- [04:09]
C
No.
- [04:09]
A
She is an incredible creator. Her and her daughter actually blew up on TikTok. She's a more mature woman, but incredibly stylish, shares a lots of words of wisdom through her daughter's TikTok originally and then exploded on her own. But I adore her substack. More bitsy style content, not so much long form. So a design for like a quick raise if you wanted to smash out a couple. But the one I read this morning how many times do we have to be wrong before we realize we're not always right? And again, coming back to my reflective mindset, this was a really nice read this morning going into that life lessons episode because I felt like a lot of what she was talking about I could relate to.
- [04:44]
B
I'm definitely gonna read that. Consider that my bedtime reading tonight. Now, guys, in some very exciting news, we have a very new member to the stylish family and I hope I'm not spoiling anything. She's already put it on her Instagram, but Arnika has had Baby Poppy.
- [04:59]
C
Baby Poppy.
- [05:00]
B
Baby Poppy. She's so cute. I think that our group chat probably has about 25 photos of poppy and I think I've fawned and teared up at every single one. She's so cute. Both Annika and her husband, James and Poppy are all doing really well, but she's also very kindly given us a swap.
- [05:17]
A
The girl doesn't stop.
- [05:19]
B
Girl works. So we've got to swap.
- [05:22]
C
It's what you meant.
- [05:22]
D
Poppy.
- [05:23]
B
Poppy is like a pure baby. Organic, perfect, loving the onesies.
- [05:28]
A
We just know that Poppy is going to be very, very influential when she grows up. Both her parents incredibly stylish.
- [05:35]
B
Annika's already talking about what first words she wants to teach her and let's just say I won't put them on the podcast. Let's go to Annika's swap.
- [05:42]
D
Okay, so now that New York Fashion Week has wrapped, a big trend that I've been seeing on the runways is shirting with detachable shaws and scarves. Now this is something I'm so incredibly into. I actually bought a shirt set from Source Are Known last year because it was on sale and it was like the chicest played number which I can't wait to wear. But Dark park or one of my favorite brands at the moment just released their new fall winter 26 collection and it's all about inspiring head to toe tonal looks. So I love this kind of look because it's all about multi use, per wear investment dressing and I just don't think you can go wrong with a detachable shawl and scarf.
- [06:19]
A
I mean, I love turning to high end brands for daily inspiration obviously, because I can't afford high End brands. So always good to take Inspo. And if it's Arnica approved, it's Riri approved. Next, we're talking about Zara tapping John Galliano to design seasonal collections. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. Every few years, we all get a little sick of our wardrobe. It's science. We're suddenly ready to let go of pieces we were once obsessed with. We're not in the mood to wear anything we own. There's just one problem. We don't know where to shop. This seems to be a universal feeling at the moment. Wanting to upgrade our wardrobe but struggling to find pieces we truly love. If you can relate, that is. You've complained to at least one girlfriend. Maya are here to save our style. They're embarking on a new chapter, one filled with fresh energy, self expression and a major lineup of new brands. Get ready to shop. Fresh curated edits from by Johnny the Wolfgang, Sonia Motor and Kinney launching later this week and giving us permission to have fun with fashion again this season. Discover a standout mix of homegrown and international designers and find your personal style again in store and online and only at Maya. A huge thank you to Maya for making this episode of Stylish possible. Okay, so this was everywhere on my Instagram last week. Big news in the fashion world. Zara announced a two year partnership with former Dior and Maison Margiela designer John Galliano, who will be designing seasonal collections for the retailer. So Galliano's first collection for Zara will land in September this year. They have announced there are in fact two collections as part of this partnership and the partnership will see Galliano re author. We can work out what that is soon. Zara's design archives. This is a really savvy move from Marta Ortega Perez, the chair of Inditex, Zara's parent company. As per Vogue, since Marta Ortega Perez was NAMED CHAIR IN 2022, Zara has collaborated with other high fashion designers, among them Narciso Rodriguez and Stefano Pilates. It's also released capsule collections by fashion notables like Kate Moss and Meiselle Naima. I'm going to throw to you because I know you have a couple of notes on this. What do all of these special collaborations have in common? Like what is the shared goal here?
- [08:32]
C
Well, I think Zara's been trying to differentiate where they stand in the market. I think they were pretty on a pedestal for a little while now. You know, they kind of stood apart from the H and Ms. And the Kmarts and the targets. And now we've seen some really big competitors come in with the Shein's and the Teemos of the world, and they've been extremely successful at capturing a youth market.
- [08:56]
A
Yeah, it's really interesting. I did read a piece in the Business of Fashion, and they said Zara has responded by elevating its product and retail strategy, raising average prices, introducing more fashion forward and higher quality pieces, and investing in more premium store experiences in a bid to capture customers who want something between mass market and luxury. I do think Galliano certainly veers on the luxurious side of things. This also came out in a recent Vogue piece. In January, Galliano was seen front row at Jonathan Anderson's haute couture debut for Dior before spending 10 years as creative director at Maison Margiela. He was in fact creative director of Christian Dior from 1997 to 2011. So we know that he is really playing in that high fashion space, I will say, and I think this is really important for us to acknowledge. Up top. Galliano's reputation isn't exactly squeaky clean, though. And as per the business of fashion, Galliano is a transgenerational icon in the fashion world, having conquered younger audiences and a largely rehabilitated his image, which was tarnished by a 2011 anti Semitic rant. He is a pretty controversial figure, which is something we'll get into a bit later.
- [10:05]
C
And to be clear, it's not like Zara's struggling in the money department. Far from it. Last week, the Guardian ran a story with the headline, billionaire Zara founder Amencio Ortega to receive 3.23 billion in dividend. That's about 5.26 billion Australian dollars.
- [10:23]
A
I love an AUD conversion because that
- [10:25]
C
really bumps it up, doesn't it?
- [10:27]
A
It does. So if you're wondering about that last name, Amancio Ortega is Marta Ortega Perez's father. So they've kept it in the van. As per the Guardian, Inditex, which owns a raft of high street chains in addition to Zara, including Bershka, Massimo Tutti, one of my personal favorites. I will add Pullen Bear, Strandeverias and Osho said on Wednesday it would increase its dividend by 4% after a robust operating performance in 2025. Okay, my first question is, do you guys see this working for Zara?
- [10:57]
B
I absolutely think it can work. I just think it's so long as they don't dilute Galliano's creative direction and that they adopt a scarcity model. Because I think if we have Galliano Everywhere. John Galliano is not John Galliano anymore. To have that kind of scarcity model that is seen in luxury, I think that's the only way for me, I see this kind of playing out.
- [11:18]
C
And what do we mean by a scarcity model?
- [11:20]
B
Scarcity model means that we don't make as much as we have the demand for. In fact, if we have 10,000 people who want it, we're going to make 2,000, and we're going to make you want it more. So I think for me, and now Zara is going to have a lot more than 10,000 people wanting Galliano for Zara, that's for sure. But I do think this only works if they don't dilute that kind of look and feel. And when I say scarcity model, I mean that they limit the runs so that it is hard to get. It is, you know, hot on the resale market, you know, on the likes of ebay or Depop, because I do think that drives hype and excitement.
- [11:50]
C
Yeah, I agree with you. I don't want the designs to just fall into the back catalog of Zara. Like, when you jump into a Zara website, it's like, whoa, so much there. And a lot of it is the same designs as you could possibly get elsewhere. I think what you need here is something that is his DNA and it has to be front and center. Something I thought of specifically, and I don't know if anyone else has this memory, is Christopher Kane for Topshop. It was the T shirts with the gorilla print on it, and I think that was so specific to his design style. And I think people are still trying to buy that. So I think what they need to do here is have items that feel very specific to Galliano.
- [12:32]
A
Do you know what's really interesting, though? Because I agree entirely. His DNA and his flair needs to show up. But this is why I'm a little bit confused about why we keep going back to this re author and this word. Zahra's archives. It's really interesting because I would have expected that they had done just a collaboration in a purest form, where he comes in almost in a creative director capacity. But this acknowledgement of going back through Zara's archive seems to be really important narrative that they're pushing.
- [13:01]
B
Zahra is very widely regarded as a little bit of like a control C change at 10% control V. So to kind of say we're going to go into the archives, it kind of feels like, are you insinuating Galliano's going to take designs that are loaned from a plethora of his peers and then kind of re engage and reimagine those. It feels disjointed for me.
- [13:21]
A
Yeah, that's where a layer of confusion comes for me. Definitely. I also want to talk about the fact that Zara's current positioning and, you know, it seems to me that they're really trying to position themselves in a more elevated high street level.
- [13:33]
B
Like Cos. Yeah.
- [13:35]
A
Which I think COS has done a really good job at. I do think it is very important to acknowledge that Zara is a fast fashion brand. As much as they want to, you know, distance themselves from the likes of Shein and Temu, and they're making active ways to do that and working on it. According to a piece written in November 2025 and Copenhagen Fashion Summit, Zara turns trends into store ready products within 15 days. So to your point, Mads, they're seeing what's trending on, you know, the runways, what's being shown at fashion weeks, and then they're able to contribute to this trend cycle so quickly by producing products that emulates that within 15 days. Yeah, by design. That is not ethical. Another point I want to make in the same article, 30% of fashion garments go unsold. Showing the model relies on volume in excess, even if the branding feels more elevated.
- [14:21]
B
Yeah. And a big part of their model at the moment that we can't deny is that virality is a big part of that for them. It is that there is, you know, a particular suede jacket or a pair of jeans that goes viral on TikTok and they are just pumping out the volume to support that. With that 15 day turnaround for me, I think as well, they're trying to play in this space where they're elevating a little bit. And I think we're seeing their attempts to do that through fabrication. I was in there recently. They had lots of leather, lots of suedes, and, you know, I'm not used to seeing a $400 jacket at Zara. I think this is relatively new terrain for them and even their assets. I mean, there's so many jokes online about, like, pretend you're in a Zara shoot. And it's like someone like, holding, you know, their handbag over their head and it's like, buy these earrings. But I do think, you know, we're seeing more elevated campaign imagery and E Comm imagery from them as well.
- [15:05]
C
I went on today and the top campaign on the Zara website was shot by Steven Meisel. Yeah, like that's a pretty big name Vogue photographer.
- [15:15]
B
Yeah. I wonder if Massimo Duty has helped them see some success here, because it's very interesting that that's owned by the same parent company. I didn't know that before this. And to me, Massimo Duty is very much playing in that Cos landscape. And we know that it's working for Cos because we're seeing it in that list. Top 10 trending brands every year. Cos cracked it sitting amongst, you know, Prada, Miu Miu, Louisville, like some pretty heavy company. When you can go in and buy like a $40 T shirt from this retailer.
- [15:42]
A
One thing I want to call out is the assumption that everyone knows who John Galliano is.
- [15:47]
B
Yeah.
- [15:47]
A
Do we think the average consumer knows and do we think they care?
- [15:51]
B
Do I think the average consumer knows? Probably not. Do I think a fashion centric person or someone who grew up on Sex and the City or who's been kind of watching this Jonathan Anderson rise at Dior is aware of it now. Yes, I think that they would.
- [16:09]
C
I think they would know Dior and Margiela more than they would know Galliano. And I think it's more about that legitimacy that he brings to Zara over necessarily his design acumen.
- [16:25]
B
Yeah, I would argue as well, maybe the millennial customer is more aware of Galliano than a definitely customer. Because I think we've kind of grown up in these eras of seeing him as the creative director. And look, there's two parts to this. There's knowing Galliano and then there's knowing Galliano designs and silhouettes. Ray, what do you kind of think when you think Galliano?
- [16:44]
A
Theater, sculpture, drama. He was iconic in the late.
- [16:49]
B
That was so like Lady Gaga, class, club, another club. I was like, okay, tell me more. Keep it going.
- [16:54]
A
But that's the intersection of this Zara archives and his unique tone of voice and what he was known for. Like, he was quite dramatic. And there was a lot of theater to his shows, whether he was at Dior or Marshallers. So I'm really interested to see how they bring those two things together and how he reworks these Sara pieces. One thing I think would be amazing and I really hope they do, is lean into this being quite a production. And when this collection drops, I want to see the visual merchandising reflect the John Galliano esque era of the late 90s, early 2000s. I want to see that theater play out. I want to see a show. I want to, you know.
- [17:31]
B
You know, me too. That's like, for me, because that was such A big part of Galliana.
- [17:36]
C
Yes. Yeah.
- [17:36]
B
Like, it was performance, it was collection. Like, had a story, and that came to life on. In show format, on a Runway.
- [17:43]
A
And that's what I want to say in September. I don't want this to just hit the stores and hit the Instagram feeds. And, you know, it's one thing for it to be a headline, but for John Galliano to really show up in a way for this to be a moment that will carve out Zara from the rest. If they're saying they want to be like a team who. Or a Sheen, or they want to be playing in that mid tier luxury space and borrowing that, you know, creative flair that he's known for, they have to show up in that way. I literally, in the windows, I want them to be the most theatrical thing.
- [18:10]
B
You want Wuthering Heights style windows, which
- [18:12]
A
is so trending right now, and we're seeing that play out everywhere.
- [18:15]
C
Yeah, even in, like, the shoots. Because, for example, like, one of the biggest parts of his last, one of his last Margiela collections was the makeup design from Pat McGrath. Like, they not only were the designs incredible, there was a whole world that was built down to the detail of the makeup. So I think when we. Not only, like, with the shoots and whatever the social rollout is, I really want to see something creative and different and not just the normal Zara campaign.
- [18:44]
A
Definitely.
- [18:44]
B
I'm so glad you referenced world, because the reality is he's under the thumb of Zara in this, and I'm not. That's not to say he wasn't under the thumb of Dior or Maison Margiela within this, but when you're the creative director versus a collaborator, it's very different.
- [18:58]
C
Very different.
- [18:58]
B
So I do wonder what the terms of this agreement are, where he has control or sign off in things like visual merchandising, in campaign imagery, in who the team is, who the collaborators are, because if this is just a you're gonna hand over a 20 piece and we'll do the rest, I think we've got a fractured Galliano, so I also
- [19:14]
C
just wanted to, I guess, look at why Galliano and why now. Obviously, he's recently left Margiela as creative director, but for me, the choice kind of feels deliberate in terms of the trend cycle as well. I think we're moving away from minimalism and capsule wardrobe. So for that fact, I think picking him was very purposeful because he's not that minimal designer.
- [19:36]
B
Totally. Don't you think the whole fashion world was going away from minimalism. And then Love Story dropped, and then we're like, shit, what do we do now?
- [19:43]
A
The silk dresses are back.
- [19:45]
B
People are like, do I need to get out my turtleneck and my silk? But I love. I love that point because I do think it's very deliberate. And I also think trend cycle, but also a sign of, like, the times that he was creative director. Dior very much feels like we're in that era.
- [20:01]
C
We're going back to that.
- [20:02]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [20:03]
A
Okay. Final piece of the puzzle that I think we really need to cover off is the controversy that I mentioned. Up top. Naima, do you want to go into a bit more detail about what actually happened?
- [20:12]
C
Yeah. I think it's hard to have this conversation about, you know, how iconic he was and the incredible designs that he made and, you know, we really want to see that world come to life without acknowledging his past controversies. There was a documentary out recently called High and Low, John Galliano, in that it covered one of the most controversial parts of his career. I think most of his career he's been controversial, but he's been doing it on purpose. But this kind of covered a moment in his life where it really came to a head, the Guardian says. In La Pour La bar in Paris in February 2011, a wasted Galliano was filmed making a string of racist and anti Semitic remarks that included allusions to gas chambers and saying, I love Hitler. Fired from his job, that was at the time he was the creative director at Dior. Condemned by media, convicted and fined by a French court, he disappeared into rehab and obscurity.
- [21:06]
B
This is undeniably unacceptable behaviour. It is as simple and as raw as that. What I find fascinating about this is somehow with fashion, we have the ability to love the art and not the artist or to separate them. And it's fascinating to me the rehabilitation culture that exists with fashion. And I look back on Demna and the controversy that was sparked when he was creative director at Balenciaga. I look at Dolce and Gabbana and their commentary around Asian descent customers and around Asian ivf. I look at Alexander Wang and the sexual allegations that surrounded him. I'm just astounded at the ability of the fashion world. It seems like the most forgiving place because of the art form. I don't. I can't make sense of it.
- [21:54]
A
All of those people are men as well.
- [21:57]
C
I was like, men.
- [21:58]
A
I do think this speaks to a broader issue within the industry. Unfortunately, we don't have time to do that today. Next we'll be discussing witchery's collab with Lara Worthington and how celeb collabs like these actually work. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. When this fashion news landed on the stylish desk, we couldn't help but get excited. It's a fresh new chapter for our friends at Myle as they welcome a host of international and Australian labels to their stores and remind us that the whole point of fashion is to have fun. Over the coming days, you'll be able to shop expressive everyday styles from by Johnny, the Wolfgang, Sonia, Motor and Kinnie, all new to Maya and available in store and online, will be first in line. A huge thank you to Maya for making this episode of Stylish possible.
- [22:45]
B
Okay, speaking. I mean, I feel like we're having a whole collaboration episode. I actually love this.
- [22:49]
A
This is straight in my basket.
- [22:51]
B
It's giving a little Friday of the so sprinkle to it. Our second headline is the Witchery have released a collection with Lara Worthington. So we're asking, how do celeb collabs like this add actually work? Last week, witchery debuted a 28 piece range created in collaboration with Australian model and media personality Lara Worthington. As mentioned, it consisted of 28 pieces all ready to wear and three footwear styles. The range includes blazers, dresses, skirts, knits, jeans, pants, bodysuits and a selection of jackets including a bomber and a funnel neck style.
- [23:24]
C
So everything?
- [23:25]
B
Yeah, pretty much. I'm like, okay, so from head to toe, the only thing missing is your, you know, socks and drocks. So. Speaking about the collection, which apparently took over a year to design and execute, Lara said, I wanted the collection to feel elevated yet effortless. Pieces designed to fit seamlessly into my everyday wardrobe. The creative process with Witchery was intuitive from the beginning and I'm incredibly proud of what we've created together. It was launched as part of Witchery's autumn 2026 season. This collaboration is clearly part of the ever evolving rebrand that we're seeing from Witchery. We actually spoke about. We did the initial rebrand on Stylish way back in 2024, which makes me feel like we've been doing this for a really long time. We have, and we did speak to the criticism that was circling at the time around the fact that they did drop a size range. Do you remember that right?
- [24:13]
A
I do. So they actually dropped from size 20 to 18. So they had historically always offered that. And then as part of the rebrand and the relaunch, they dropped that size, which was the main Focus of the conversation in the discourse that broke out that we spoke about, but also was mostly on the Internet at the time.
- [24:27]
B
Yeah. I think a lot of the discourse as well was centered around people feeling like it was a little bit same same to maybe some of the other retailers in market. There was a lot of reference of it feeling a little bit like, you know, those sort of Gen Z millennial brands like Dish, Henny, Cookeye, kind of feeling like it was part of that family, which also felt like a departure from where they'd been and who their customer originally was.
- [24:47]
A
Yeah. Ostracizing that older demographic and really going after a younger demo that is wearing those brands that you said.
- [24:54]
B
Sentiment online around the Lara witchery range has been fairly positive, but some content creators and commentators have criticized Witchery for making Lara the face of the collection when they think she would never wear this herself. What is the expectation we have of these collaborations? Is it that this is a brand that that person shops? Is it that this is a style or genre that we would expect or that they're able to make accessible? What's your kind of hot take on it?
- [25:24]
C
I think I want to think about who the target market for this collection is. I don't think the target market is Lara Worthington. I think it's the people that follow her.
- [25:33]
B
Yeah.
- [25:34]
C
And I think the people that follow her would have witchery in their consideration. It would not be maybe their top. Well, I don't know. It could be in their top choice. Maybe they already shop there, but I think it wouldn't not be in their general considerations of brands that they shop from.
- [25:49]
A
I do think it's really important to acknowledge there is a spectrum of expectations to Mads Point in terms of why people purchase from brands and what their motivation is. This is more about buying into Lara's aesthetic and trying to buy into this world of Lara Worthington. She has had a long standing, I guess, framing in the world as being a style icon for many. So, you know, particularly amongst the millennial audience who have grown up with her,
- [26:19]
B
it kind of reminds me of the beauty industry a little bit too. Like, I do always laugh when you'll read these articles where it'll be like, get red carpet ready. Or, you know, there's a TikTok and they're showing them use, you know, like a $10 micellar water. I'm like, do you really believe that Margot Robbie is having her makeup removed with, like, you know, like. And sure, some instances, maybe, but also, a lot of those things are done for them. To look relatable, for it to appear high, low, like there are mega machines going on behind these things. So no, I'm not going to sit here and say I think that Lara Worthington was like, I have a passion for witchery. I shot witchery. I'm sure that's more likely the row.
- [26:55]
A
The row. I literally had them in my notes. A Lyle, you know, Celine, these are very, very luxurious brands that she is wearing. But again, it comes back to this point that a lot of these celebrities, and I'm using the word celebrity deliberately because I do think Lara Worthington is a celebrity. I do not think that she is an influencer, which means that my expectations of her and how she shows up in a brand collaboration capacity is different. If this was a influencer collaboration, I will be honest and say that I would have the expectation that that influencer does wear these clothes.
- [27:30]
B
Ray, I completely agree.
- [27:32]
A
And the reason why is because I do think Lara is. We are buying into this Lara aesthetic, as I said, up top. But also it's trying to gain this aspirational piece of her life and emulate that in a way that is accessible. So I think it's smart that witchery has done this because what they've also carved out is a point of difference in this middle market in Australia. If you pulled the labels of so many brands in that mid tier market, it would be very difficult to distinguish who actually designed that collection.
- [28:01]
E
Yeah.
- [28:01]
A
So attaching Lara Worthington's face to this range, albeit a lot of the products do look similar to, you know, other brands, brands that you can shop regularly, having her face attached to this range and, you know, being able to carve out this moment of a collaboration has created a point of difference of witchery and is pretty far from where we were talking about them two years ago
- [28:20]
B
and we're sitting here talking about them. So I would say that they've achieved exactly what they wanted to achieve. I think generally why, maybe there's been a bit of discourse on this is because the quote did read, and I'm going to read it again, I wanted the collection to feel elevated yet effortless. Pieces designed to fit seamlessly into my everyday wardrobe.
- [28:38]
A
Okay, yeah, see, get that. Because in this instance, in that exact quote, she has centered herself in it.
- [28:43]
B
Yeah.
- [28:44]
A
Which means that she has opened up the conversation and said that this is worked into my everyday wardrobe. Therefore I'm. The assumption is that she's wearing witchery. So that's where I think the discourse is coming from.
- [28:54]
C
Yeah, I think I'm just Laughing because it's like for me, I think a marketing manager or a social media manager has written that and then it's just like not been picked up. I think it's like they've wanted to make it sound very like herself and I'm making an assumption here. But in, in doing that, it has made it very centered in the fact that it's her clothing rather than her like curating the style. Like, I almost feel like if there she had been like, this is my edit.
- [29:23]
B
Yeah.
- [29:24]
C
This is my styling choices. I think that could have separated it a little bit.
- [29:27]
B
Yeah. Or how I would create a curated capsule wardrobe sort of thing. I do have to say the expectation that we have of creators and celebrities and collaborations now seems to just be so much higher than what it ever was. Like when Kate Moss did Topshop. I don't know that we were expecting Kate Moss to be head to toe Topshop either.
- [29:46]
A
Same with David Beckham and H and M. I don't think he was.
- [29:49]
B
I don't think Becks is rolling around
- [29:50]
A
in H and M. No. But this is why I think it also comes back not to the celebrity. And I want to be self aware that Lara Worthington, assuming that she did write that quote and those are her words, it is coming from her personal note.
- [30:02]
C
Yeah.
- [30:03]
A
In the instance of like a David Beckham and H and M, I, it's more about the audience. And coming back to your point, Naima, it's about the Target audience. Women 18 to 35 who were shopping at Witchery. I would say that 80% of that demographic know who Lara Worthington is. I'd say that majority of them are more likely to now consider even looking at that brand because of that affiliation.
- [30:26]
B
Yeah. And look exactly to your point, Ray, like, you know, thinking about celebrity and content creator fashion collabs more broadly, we were like, okay, we've got to call in the big guns, We've got to call in the experts. And we reached out to Genevieve Day, the founder of talent and content marketing agency Day Management, to find out more about how these kind of collaborations, particularly around fashion, come to life and how effective they can be for brands. We've actually got a little voice note from Jen, so we're going to play it for you here.
- [30:52]
E
In terms of how it comes to life, often it does start based on a brand relationship. You can see that they've already worked together. It would also give the marketing team some insight into their ROI and sales results from them promoting the brand. They know there's an audience there that's engaged and obviously likes to shop their suggestions. But I also have been approached before by a brand who had actually never worked with this talent or creator. I wanted to do a design collaboration with them just because they really recognized and loved the their audience and their engagement and what they stood for as well. So it can be two things. I think it's really smart of brands and marketing teams because you're already engaging an audience that exists and has an interest in there and it's also prable and has talkability. So you're kind of tapping into a. Yeah, tapping into a market that already wants to shop.
- [31:44]
A
Again, this might sound unfair, but this comes back to my point around there being a spectrum. I think Lara Worthington is a celebrity, which is why I have a different point of view on the fact that if she doesn't wear witchery is less of a concern to me than if it was a creator. I really like Jen's point around there being an existing relationship with the brand and that feeling like a natural extension. Although Lara Worthington hasn't worked with witchery in the past, I do think it's an interesting call out that she has worked with a lot of Australian brands historically in a collaboration capacity. I remember see Folly atois there was someone else cotton on if you go way back. So it's interesting to me, although she doesn't live in Australia anymore or her main base isn't in Australia, she still is very aligned to that Australian consumer.
- [32:29]
B
Yeah.
- [32:30]
A
So last year when I was in London for shameless takes, I actually met with Lucy Piltz who is the founder of the Sunday Chapter. We also reached out to her for a bit of, you know, expert commentary on this conversation. Lucy has done a lot of these types of collaborations with different influencers and creators that are on her books and. And what I found really interesting from Lucy is that this is a lot more common overseas than what it is here and I do think that Australia has a tendency to be a little bit behind. This is what Lucy shared with me for the Sunday Chapters talent specifically most collaborations like Monique and Faithful the label little Australian reference there, Kelly Eastwood and Scentsy have come from pre existing relationships that I then identified as a strong brand fit and pitched the idea directly. I'm usually looking at whether the creator's audience aligns with the brand and whether there's a real market for the collaboration. So. So again this idea that there is an existing market in a collaborator's sense that needs to be there because if you're an influencer and you're sitting there saying, I'm collaborating with this brand and I don't believe that it's not going to work. But I also feel like there is this element of it needs to be more than a one hit wonder.
- [33:37]
C
Yeah.
- [33:38]
A
And one thing that Lucy also shared with me is that she's actually working on three different collections that are launching within the next 10 months. So this is a very common trend.
- [33:46]
C
Yeah.
- [33:47]
A
And there's going to be more of these. And the reason why I think brands love it is because it adds that layer of credibility beyond just a standard sponsored post.
- [33:55]
C
Yeah. Can I add, like, from a brand perspective? I know a lot of the time as well with retailers, they build out collections about 70 to 80% of the way and then look for a marketing moment. So they look specifically for creators that might fit that collection. So even if it's sometimes it's the other way around, it's not always. You think of the creator first and then you build a collection. Sometimes a collection is built and then you look for a face for it.
- [34:26]
B
Fascinating. I mean, they're pulling these collections so far out as well. It's not always a Zara model of 15 day turnaround time. It very much depends on the brand at hand.
- [34:35]
A
Well, in this instance, they said that they'd been working on the partnership for over a year. I actually believe that.
- [34:40]
C
Yeah.
- [34:41]
B
Yeah, I did too.
- [34:42]
A
Look, I think it's entirely up to the consumer whether or not they decide they want to buy into this narrative and this partnership. Some people will because they really love the esthetic of Lara Worthington and they feel that they can access her look at an affordable price point. And then other people might not because, you know, whether it be the fabrication or the fact that she doesn't wear witchery might not align with their values. So where people land on this will really depend and come back to the consumer of what their values are and whether or not they're happy to spend their dollars with witchery.
- [35:11]
C
I love that Re. It's all down to what we feel when we're purchasing clothing, how it makes us feel.
- [35:16]
B
So even shopping is an emotional purchase.
- [35:19]
C
Shopping is a very emotional thing.
- [35:20]
B
It's just so emotional.
- [35:22]
A
Very emotional.
- [35:22]
B
That's all for this week's episode of Stylish. Thank you so much for joining us. And thank you both Rhiannon Joyce and Naima Fatima for being here. Thanks for having me in such close succession. Thrilled to have you in the studio. I feel like I missed out last time.
- [35:36]
C
We're back.
- [35:38]
B
Remember, you can drop us an email anytime@style-ishamelessmedia.com or you can slide into our DMS over at Stylish Pod. We, of course, can't forget to thank our lovely shameless media team, head of podcast, Lucy Hunt, and our senior podcast producer, Kate Emma Berg. And you'll be hearing from myself and the lovely Priya McPherson who we've had on Face to Face. Yes, she is joining us for this fortnightly Fridays app, raise. Having a little rest, this.
- [36:02]
A
Having a little rest.
- [36:03]
B
We'll see you right back here next Wednesday or on that Friday.
- [36:06]
C
Yep.
- [36:07]
B
See you then.
- [36:07]
A
Bye, guys.
- [36:08]
C
Bye.
- [36:15]
A
This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land.
- [36:18]
B
Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.