Leave my chin hair alone! I want to drink wine!

Summary

Style-ish Podcast Summary

Episode: Leave my chin hair alone! I want to drink wine!
Date: July 16, 2026
Hosts: Rhiannon Joyce (Ray) & MST Madison Sullendorf (Mads)
Theme: The episode explores the rise of “longevity” marketing and its impact on women, especially in health, wellness, and beauty. The hosts discuss targeted supplement ads, shifting beauty language, societal pressures, and how consumer behavior is manipulated by brands. Listener experiences and industry insights are woven throughout.

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode focuses on the explosion of marketing around “longevity”—the pursuit of living longer and healthier—and how it is being aggressively promoted to (and often weaponized against) women. The hosts question why these messages target women’s insecurities, how the wellness industry absorbs beauty, and whether the promises of biohacking, supplements, and costly routines do more harm than good.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Stylish Merch Drop & Intro

• The hosts share excitement about new podcast-branded caps featuring wine glasses, linking wine culture with their personal style.
  • “[A cap] with a little wine glass on the front, or two wine glasses…fitting for two women who like to drink wine.” — Ray (00:32)

2. The Pinnacle of Longevity Hype: Supplements & Brian Johnson

• The conversation is sparked by a pub chat about Brian Johnson, a biohacker intent on living forever.
• Reference to past podcast episode on peptides—most downloaded due to widespread interest in longevity.
  • “He is determined to live forever...sharing all the things he does during the day to live forever.” — Rhiannon (02:40)
• Parallel to influencer culture and mainstreaming of “biohacking” (03:32)

3. “Word of the Week” and Retro Influencer Culture

• The “word of the week” is “unfash,” inspired by an Instagram recap of early 2000s Juicy Couture influencer events.
• Discussion of how celebrity pampering events set the stage for contemporary influencer marketing strategies.
  • “At that time, influencers didn’t exist. The celebrities were the influencers. But...entertaining them with luxurious experiences, getting manicures, hair done…that’s not too dissimilar from influencer marketing today.” — Rhiannon (03:48)

4. How Longevity Marketing Targets Women’s Insecurities (06:05–09:41)

• The rapid rise of supplement brand “IMA8”, alongside AG1, both targeting women via highly-personalized, insecurity-focused social ads (e.g., “32 and acne? Chin hairs?”).
  • “This entire breadth of longevity marketing is attacking female insecurities...for women, it’s about perimenopause, hormone state, skin—it’s all about reversing or preventing damage rather than ‘you’re doing great, do better’.” — Ray (07:19)
• Men are more often marketed performance or “gains”; women get anxiety about “fixing flaws.”
• Notable quote:
  • “Why would I want to live longer if I spend my whole life worrying about living longer?” — Listener poll response cited by Rhiannon (09:41)

5. Elitism Versus Mass Market Adoption

• Longevity obsession seen as elitist, but it’s “bleeding into the mass”—people are being told they need it, regardless of access or affordability. (09:16–09:31)
• Referencing an Allure article: “Why try to live to 100 when I can’t afford being 32?”

6. Are We All Hamsters on the Wellness Wheel?

• People feel bombarded and fatigued, fearing that worrying about wellness is causing harm in itself.
  • “I am so exhausted about worrying that I’m going to live the longest, healthiest, happiest life that I’m tired in the process by worrying about it.” — Ray (10:11)

7. Wellness Spending: “I Am Part Of the Problem” (12:14–14:24)

• Australia’s wellness economy is booming (avg. $6,737 per year, $141 billion industry).
• Honest admissions about spending on gym memberships, subscriptions (AG1/Sodi/Strava), and wellness drinks.
• The line between performance, self-care, and peer/fashion pressure is blurred.

8. Beauty Industry “Hijacks” Longevity Language (15:17–21:08)

• “Biohacking” explained — from healthy habits to experimental procedures.
• “Skin longevity” and “skinje-vity” are now trending product claims; marketing leans heavy on pseudo-scientific language (“cellular repair,” “future-proofing,” “healthy aging”).
  • “For me, this is just a new way to say anti-aging...longevity is much more tied to health than anti-aging is.” — Ray (17:48)
• Example: Estee Lauder’s “Skin Longevity Institute” ad promises “visible age reversal” (18:30–18:51)
• Visuals use science imagery (beakers, microscopes) to suggest credibility; hosts warn the intended meaning is misleading.

9. The Psychological Toll and the Regulatory Gap (21:08–25:39)

• Listener survey confirms negative feelings about longevity marketing—overwhelming sense of “fatigue and exhaustion.”
• Notable audience quote:
  • “First it was to be skinny, then be yourself, then gut health, then cosmetic surgery, now it’s longevity.” — Listener (22:05)
• Community includes many health professionals who are skeptical, noting language is misleading and dangerous.
• Deep critique of how this marketing preys on those with family histories of illness, heightening guilt/anxiety.

10. Audience Wellness Spending Habits (26:20–30:58)

• Most stylish listeners spend $100–$500/month on wellness (workouts, supplements, saunas).
• Top categories: Gym (88%), Supplements (53%), Saunas (26%), Massages (26%).
• Therapy/mental health investments surprisingly low in comparison.
  • “There are no advertisements out there...encouraging you going to therapy. How many ads for going to the sauna, taking all the products?” — Rhiannon (28:30)

11. The Allure and Ambiguity of Supplements versus Measurable Metrics

• Supplements are widely used despite being less quantifiable than wearables; price, placebo, and hope factors all discussed.

12. The Marketing Regulation Blind Spot (31:15–33:04)

• Call for stronger regulation (ACCC, TGA) and crackdown on misleading language and unsubstantiated claims, especially as they target female insecurities.
• “So much of it feels like a cowboy’s lawless, this unregulated land.” — Ray (32:33)
• Skepticism that most longevity claims are data-light.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[Longevity marketing] is just a new way to say anti-aging...but longevity is much more tied to health.” (17:48, Ray)
• “Why would I want to live longer if I spend my whole life worrying about living longer?” (09:41, Listener via Rhiannon)
• “First it was to be skinny, then be yourself, then gut health, then cosmetic surgery, now it’s longevity.” (22:05, Listener via Ray)
• “We are in fact on the money. That majority of you do really have a negative association with longevity marketing...fatigue and exhaustion with the feeling that it never ends.” (21:44, Ray)
• “For me it’s...the constant pursuit. It felt, reading that, reminded me a lot of the Barbie monologue.” (22:25, Ray)
• “There is so much pressure and anxiety...but ultimately, like a lot of people still saying they’re a sucker for it...because it’s easier and it’s accessible and it can rock up at our door.” (28:48, Ray)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:32 – Merch reveal and cap-themed banter – scene-setting, hosts’ chemistry
• 02:18 – Introduction of longevity obsession and Brian Johnson
• 03:27–03:48 – “Unfash,” Juicy Couture, and the roots of influencer marketing
• 05:31–06:34 – Targeted supplement ads and how brands prey on insecurity
• 07:19–08:13 – Gendered marketing: men v. women, performance v. repair
• 09:41 – Listener quote: “Why would I want to live longer...”
• 12:14 – Stats: Australia’s wellness spending
• 15:17–16:33 – Biohacking explained & beauty industry catches the bug
• 17:48 – “Anti-aging” becomes “longevity” marketing
• 18:30–18:51 – Dissection of Estee Lauder’s “skin longevity” claims
• 21:08–22:05 – Listener survey results: exhaustion, comparison to past trends
• 26:20–27:17 – Listener wellness spending habits (survey results)
• 28:30 – Therapy as overlooked part of “wellness”
• 31:15–32:33 – Regulation, ACCC/TGA, and the ‘cowboy’ landscape

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Tone & Final Thoughts

• The episode is lively, honest, self-aware, and supportive, with the hosts frequently acknowledging their own susceptibility to marketing and wellness FOMO.
• The hosts champion skepticism, push for regulatory solutions, and validate listeners’ feelings of fatigue.
• Ultimately, they call for greater transparency in the industry, urge listeners not to feel guilt or shame, and end on a note of collective questioning rather than easy answers.

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For Listeners

If you’re feeling exhausted by wellness and beauty marketing, you’re not alone—the Style-ish hosts and most listeners are right there with you, questioning both the promises and the pressure. The message: Take what works for you, question the rest, and don’t let longevity worries rob you of today’s joy.

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[Links to mentioned articles and products were promised to be in the show notes. Skipped all non-content, ad, and admin sections as per instruction.]

Transcript

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Shameless Media.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Fenton and Fenton, helping Australians create homes with personality through thoughtfully curated furniture, homewares, lighting and art.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I have a surprise for you.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Hit me.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I'm serious. A physical surprise for you.

[Ray]

Oh, do you actually, yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I've got a present.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Do you really? Yep.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, do you want it?

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Yeah. Okay.

[Ray]

Oh, my God. Wait, I think I know what it is.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Merch.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Merch.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Merch. Merch.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Merch. Merch. Guys, this isn't a visual podcast, but what I'm holding up is a very cute cap with a little wine glass on the front, or two wine glasses

[Ray]

fitting for two women who like to drink wine.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Funny that.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Funny that.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And on the back, we've got a little bit of branding, a little bit of stylish merch. I would tell you to put it on, but you've got the slickest back bun I've ever seen, so it's not really going to work. I'm going to include a link in the show. Notes to our new Stylish.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Merch.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Guys are so cute, and we really want to see a walking billboard out there and some physical representation of how much you love listening to us every week. Maddie's laughing. She's like, you've gone full in for the sell.

[Ray]

What? Here's just like a get the cat.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So the girls that get it, get it, represent Stylish. If you love us, we'd love to see you out in the wild. It's so cute. I think Steph Lam, who did the design, has absolutely nailed it. It's kind of got a bit of a, like, baseball vibe about it. Thank you for indulging me with my little hijack.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

We.

[Ray]

Well, you know, I love wearing a cap on a dog walk with Dorge, so you'll see me at the dog park with Georgie Boy in my cap on.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Very cute, guys. Happy Friday. Welcome to our fortnightly Friday episode. I'm Rhiannon Joyce and I'm joined by the wonderful MST Madison Sullendorf.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

How you doing, Mads?

[Ray]

I'm doing well.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Very, very.

[Ray]

I'm excited for this. It's a little bit of a passion

[Rhiannon Joyce]

point of ours, and I've never seen you so passionate about something. So can you tell us what are we talking about today?

[Ray]

Ray and I were at the pub on Friday the other week, and we were chatting with, I think we were all up there, or five or six of us.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Five or six? Yeah.

[Ray]

And we were sitting there and we were talking about, funnily enough, the Peptides episode that we had done, which is one of our most downloaded episodes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's actually officially the most downloaded episode

[Ray]

of Stylish Said what I said.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Ray]

Anyway, it's stylish or stylish Fridays or

[Rhiannon Joyce]

just no doubt stylish in general.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

I'm pretty sure.

[Ray]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Wait, I think I lied, but that's fine, carry on.

[Ray]

And we were talking about, like, Peptides, obviously still a massive topic across Australia and globally, but we were also just chatting about this, like, longevity obsession and we were talking about an article that recently been released about Brian Johnson. He is the guy known for biohacking and just he is obsessed with living as long as possible.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Like, he's made it his whole brand. He is determined to live forever. And he's hit mainstream media because he's basically shared all the things that he does during the day to live forever.

[Ray]

He's like the Nara Smith of longevity.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes.

[Ray]

So that's what we're going to chat about today. But before we do that, Ray, I'm so thrilled because I feel like I've had 52 words of the week in the last few Fridays. So it's your turn, baby girl.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You actually fed this to me. Mads has this habit of like, it's my word of the week. And then she just DMs me is like, you should use this as your word in the week. And unfortunately for me, they're always better than my actual word of the week. So then I have to quickly go in and delete it. So my word of the week is unfash. It was an Instagram account that you shared with me, Mad, so credit where credit's due. They did this really cool pros that Juicy Couture did the OG Influencer event. And it takes you all the way back to LA in the early 2000s. Guess who you would say at this event?

[Ray]

It was so good. It was like, Giselle, Jessica Elba. Who else was there?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, just like all the 2000 icons and they're all wearing the most juicy couture outfits you've ever seen. And they're doing this full pampering day, I think was at Chateau Marmont. I can't remember exactly.

[Ray]

Of course it was, but it was just like, literally, I've never seen so many tanks in low rise jeans. I was like, oh, True Religion was having a time.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Do you know what I also loved was the flash in the photography. Like it was so 2000s coded. And I'm like, this is literally what we're trying to do. With the Tesla app right now. It just is hilarious to me. The reason why I love the post is because it gave a really cute, short and sharp, I would say, synopsis of how juicy couture were really the ones who pioneered influencer events. At that time, influencers didn't exist. The celebrities were the influencers. But the ethos and the concept of, you know, hosting them, entertaining them with these luxurious experiences. You know, they're getting manicures, they're getting their hair done. They were able to pick their favorite outfits and then documenting that and then sharing it in press. Like that's not too dissimilar from how influencer marketing is operating today. So it's a really cute little post. We'll link it in the show notes, you can check it out. But I love that page, so thank you for introducing me to it.

[Ray]

You're so welcome. God, it makes me sound like a control freak for word of the week. But I swear I just thought it was really good and I was like, this is great, Ray, you should have a look. I agree.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And also my, wasn't that good.

[Ray]

What was it? I don't know.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Maybe I'll use it next time.

[Ray]

So I'm like, okay, let's get stuck in Ray, let's get, let's go back to the pub.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Let's go back to the pub. But let's also start with the ads.

[Ray]

So Ray and I have religiously drunk AJ1 for a long time. It's like a running joke that it's like we're kind of like culty about it, but I am eight have kind of very quickly come up as a key competitor for AG1. Again, they're both like a daily subscription model supplement that you buy a 30 day, you know, subscription of and it gets delivered to your door every week. Now imates kind of come out like a bull out of a gate. They've got a host of celebrities that are kind of spokespeople and shareholders within it. There's NBA players, there's David Beckham, Sabalinka, Sabalanka.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I'm pretty sure they've really gone hard in the tennis sphere, particularly off the back of Wimbledon at the moment. I saw a lot of posts, a lot of posts.

[Ray]

But one thing that is crazy about IMA is like their Instagram is very curated and hi fi, like polished. But their meta ads, I've actually been in meta's back end. They have over 1200 active meta ads. Like whoever is working in their meta team is hustle ling. But these ads are hyper targeted. And I sent a screenshot to rate because I've been served a lot of them. Like I've bought I am eight before. So I'm like, why are you targeting me this much? One was like 32 and acne, question mark. Chin hairs, question mark.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Wait, what about the one that I got? Because when you send it to me, you know when you say something on Instagram and you watch it and you go, wait, that's kind of fudgeing weird.

[Ray]

Wait, is this about me?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Literally, that is what happened to me. But I saw a different Iron Maid ad. It was one which was like a Youth in your 30s are female and drinking too much. And I was like, whoa. I just got back from Italy. I was gone for two weeks, like attacked. And then the whole purpose of the ad was to tell me how I could reduce bloating. But it opened with this huge neg that obviously resonated with me because I'm

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

very insecure at the moment about how much I've been drinking.

[Ray]

Ray and I were laughing. We both got served each other's ads and we were like, wait, is like I am eight in our phone. But with 1200 meta ads, you better believe they can hyper target.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I think it's really interesting to compare that to AG1, who is their main competitor. They're absolutely going head to head with only had like 200 or something.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

What I want to call out with

[Rhiannon Joyce]

the IMA piece is it's less about I made and more about how women are being marketed to with this whole theme of longevity. Right. Because the two ads that we got are very different to what I would assume one of the boys is getting, which is likely more performance based or more gym based.

[Ray]

I would assume that Dole I can confirm.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay.

[Ray]

I am honestly like my shtick with this and maybe why it's my Roman empire right now is because this entire breadth of longevity marketing is attacking female insecurities. You've just said it yourself. You're insecure about how much you're drinking right now. I'm insecure about the fact my skin is up shit creek without a paddle right now. Chin hairs? No, there is one. I get it with my tweezers. It really is about insecurities. I am willing to guarantee the way that brands target men is about performance. Bro gains in the gym. It's like very positive of how they can make what they're doing better for women. It's about your, you know, perimenopause, your hormone state when you're trying to Have a baby. What's going on with your skin? You know, it's all about, like, you know, reversing damage or preventing damage rather than, oh, you're doing great. Do better.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. I also think the advertising of longevity or longevity marketing makes sense in this space. It feels like it should be in that space of, like, wellness. When you're thinking gym, you're thinking performance, or whether or not you're a runner, you're thinking bath houses, all of those things. And I assume that the people who love those things are probably consuming iron, mate. Where I'm finding this marketing of longevity getting interesting is like, why are we now seeing it infiltrate beauty? And why are we now seeing it bleed out?

[Ray]

Oh, it's gone way beyond the bathhouse.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's what?

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Love that.

[Ray]

Yeah. Get it on a cap. Next. Cap, here we come. I'm really glad you brought that up, because where this kind of was perfectly articulated for me was in a recent article by Allure that was titled, why Try to live to 100 when I can't afford being 32? And what I loved most about this article was that it is just laced in the concept that elitism really is at the crux of the longevity obsession. Like it is on a pedestal for the elite.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I would say the overwhelming sentiment is definitely the elitism and how it is very expensive to be able to buy into these luxuries. But I also challenge that it's bleeding into the mass. You know, it's not that they need it, it's that they're being told they need it. Does that make sense?

[Ray]

1,000%. And I think it loops back exactly to where we've opened this entire episode, which is that we feel we want it and need it because it's playing to every insecurity we've had.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. And this sentiment is shared. We actually polled you guys and was really important for us to survey and make sure that we could get your input. And one response really stood out to me and really aligns with the overarching theme of the article. One of our wonderful listeners said, why would I want to live longer if I spend my whole life worrying about living longer? Like, that to me, is like this push and pull I'm constantly feeling when it comes to marketing longevity, consuming the products. But then also it's like, how is that actually compromising the quality of my life? Like, I'm thinking too much about it.

[Ray]

It's the hamster on the wheel at the pub, One of our girlfriends, like, we kind of rounded out entire conversation about the article and about Brian Johnson, who is, as I mentioned, that longevity influencer who ended up coming out and saying he actually has a chronic autoimmune condition called autoimmune gastritis. And this girlfriend of ours was saying, when can I get off the hamster wheel? Like, I'm so exhausted about worrying that I'm going to live the longest, healthiest, happiest life that I'm tired in the process by worrying about it. Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I think we're all tired. And that's why we wanted to talk about this today. Because our relationship, your relationship as listeners with longevity in health is really at a point where we need to start questioning, particularly as it is bleeding into the beauty industry. I mean, as the article said, does the beauty industry need a bit of a wake up call around how they're leveraging or hijacking, I should say longevity marketing?

[Ray]

Oh, they are piggybacking for sure. But really we're going to get into it right after a word from today's sponsor.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

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[Rhiannon Joyce]

that look like a copy paste job.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

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[Rhiannon Joyce]

in and full of personality.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

For more than 15 years, Fenton and Fenton have been championing that exact feeling. Thoughtful interiors that celebrate individuality. Their collection of furniture, lighting, rugs, art and homewares is filled with pieces that feel distinctive without being intimidating. They're the kind of timeless pieces you build a home around and love for years to come. Whether you're looking for one statement piece or you're slowly building a home that feels like you. Explore the world of Fenton and Fenton online. Or if you're in Melbourne, visit their iconic brand showroom. And thank you so much to Fenton and Fenton for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay, I want to start with some stats around spend on in, I should say not on the wellness category. It's in the wellness category.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Spoiler.

[Ray]

It's a very successful category.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's bloody expensive. Like, I feel sick and also I'm part of the problem. So I'm not judging anyone. According to Iselect, Australia is actually one of the world's fastest expanding wellness economies. Iselect reveals Australians spend an estimate of $6,737 annually on wellness as a whole. In 2024, Australians spent 141 billion in the wellness category.

[Ray]

It was Funny when we would, you know, we always pitch our stories, we talk about what we want to talk about. And I pitched this based on our convo at the pub. And I laughed because I said, guys, I worked out one day and I'm going to like, fall on my own sword here. That I had spent $24 on beverages, like wellness beverages. Like, I mean, let's take coffee out because I don't think anyone's claiming that's health is wealth. But I was like, I've spent $6 on a coffee. I'd bought a matcha because matcha is good for me. I had had a Saudi because I have an electroly. I had had an IMA because I have a supplement every day. It was like, you know, coconut water, because that's good. You need a sneeze. I didn't know if you were like, scrunching your nose, like, stop talking.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I was like. I was like, I'm gonna sneeze.

[Ray]

I thought she was doing like, is my mouth off?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Do you know what? I'm so sorry because now it's gone. Okay, so you can keep going.

[Ray]

Look. And Ray, let's fall in our own swords a little bit. Like, where do you think a lot of this spend for you is going?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Personally, in terms of what I'm spending money on per month, My gym membership, I pay also am subscribed to AG1. I also have a subscription with Sodi, so those are probably coming every like three months. I'm getting topped up.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

What else?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Strava. I'm a runner, so I'm a Strava girly. I would say my mindset around spending is more associated with services as opposed to product. So, you know, my gym membership also captures like saunas, ice bath. Like all of those facilities are available in my gym. So I feel less. I'm not like, bad, but like, I feel less guilty spending money on services than what I do product. AG1. SODI for me are very performance aligned with like my running experience. So it's less about me feeling good in like every day and more about, like, how do I, like, make sure I'm getting the nutrients I need when I'm running a lot. How is. So do you like replenishing my electric. Why do I take it again?

[Ray]

You take it.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And you like drinking wine? Yes. I would say my friends are like 50, 50 in terms of what they spend based on, like, service versus product. So, like, some of my mates spend more on at home LED masks, you know, anti aging products, like beauty products. Like, they're very that way inclined.

[Ray]

I'm a bit of column A, column B. I mean I've followed suit and joined the same gym as you, so there. There she is. But for me, AG1 is more like there are some days I'm just so rushed and maybe not eating all of the right things that I should be or not getting the nutrients that I would hope I would be getting from like my day to day diet that I am hoping by having an IMA or an AG one that I am having something that's a little bit better. The electrolytes, to be fair, are probably because I like a wine on a Friday and a Saturday and it's more to make up for those.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

What do you think about the marketing of longevity versus what is actually good for our wellbeing? Because I think where we keep coming back to is that these two things are at conflict.

[Ray]

Well, totally. I think originally where longevity kind of came in, like it's distinct origins for me are as simple as like organic food. It's like if you eat good food, you will live longer. And I think that was kind of where the concept of longevity started was like if you walk for 45 minutes a day and have cardiovascular health and those sorts of things. Where it's gotten to now is the layers of biohacking and whatnot. And if you don't know what biohacking is, I called in my friends WebMD who defined it as Biohacking is a spectrum of methods for self improvement. On one end are simple strategies or hacks that anyone can use to promote wellness, like sleep tracking or exercise trends. On the other end are experimental procedures done outside of a lab or hospital setting. Think unlocking your potential through unconventional methods. But I think to your point at the very beginning of the episode, Ray, was that it is infiltrated outside of health and wellbeing now to adjacent categories like beauty, which is where I feel really conflicted and sticky about it. I looked up the word skin jevity, like skin longevity and there were like results from the likes of Forbes, from Mecca, from Esthetics rx, brand after brand after brand, like this list goes on.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

The SEO was insane.

[Ray]

It was hustling the products that were claiming to speak to longevity that were like at the top of the shopping page. This has well and truly captured the marketing tongue of skin care.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Can you please run through some of the language because I think this is really important to tease out. This is where I feel the hijacking of longevity is really coming to light because there's a lot of jargon going on.

[Ray]

Yeah. Like, honestly, some of the language in here is like, skin longevity from Paula's Choice Guide to youthful looking Skin. Medicaid. What is skin longevity the smarter way to age? Well, the article from Mecca was the new frontier in skin aging, improving longevity. Like, there is a lot of conversation here that is suggesting that by using topical skin care products, you will increase the longevity of your skin.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

A few I read when I clicked in, we had reference to cellular repair future proofing, which is basically longevity. They've just gone thesaurus. What else is another word for longevity? And this one, this one is really interesting. Healthy aging was coming up quite a bit.

[Ray]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I remember last year you guys did an episode where you talked about how longevity was becoming a theme then. This is where we're really seeing it play out now. Like, it feels like it's everywhere.

[Ray]

For me, having worked in the beauty industry for such a long time, I see through this because for me, this is just a new way to say anti aging. Because there was sort of this period where anti aging became the dirty word and even allure, I think it was in late 2017, banned the word altogether from their publication. Anti aging. But then other synonyms came in, like ageless, age defying. You know, longevity to me just feels like an extension of that. Where it feels slippery is that longevity is much more tied to health than anti aging is.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Totally. I really liked Matt's example that you included in the run sheet, which was for Estee Lauder. And I want you to read through this ad.

[Ray]

Yeah. So Estee Lauder had an ad called Introducing Estee Lauder Skin Longevity Institute. And the subtitle of it was your resource on skin longevity and visible age reversal. Now, reversal is a big word to be using in beauty.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's throwing that around.

[Ray]

It's. It's a big one. I don't know. I'd go there if I was still working in beauty marketing.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

We'll link that in the show notes. I do want to call out the visuals as well that accompanying the copy because it is very sciency. We've got like, what is it, a beacon?

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

No, no, it's a beaker.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Beaker test tube. What do you call? Microscope.

[Ray]

Thank you.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Thank you for the.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So, yeah, we can really get this imagery, but also the copy telling this story of being science backed.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Yeah.

[Ray]

And it very much is indicating that it's happening at a deep cellular level, which is where it gets a little murky. Yeah, it's gray. On a good day, it's gray. Because like, and to get a little bit Joe here, when something is suggesting a cellular level change, we're sort of getting into TGA territory, which is the Therapeutic Goods Administration who are the body who look after things like supplements, SPFs and things like that. And the TGA is, you know, really there for anything that does physically change the molecular cell of your skin. So we're talking things like they oversee Botox and PDRN and all these sorts of things. So this is where the language I'm like, we're slippery.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

See, when I hear these things or these words, I feel like it's going to give me the same results as if I was to get Botox. But it's not. And they're not saying it is, but that's how I feel.

[Ray]

And it's not to say ree that using some of these products will not help your skin health. It's just claims around skin jevity reversal that feel very like red zone to me.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But you know, this is where the skepticism is coming from because I think the average consumer and the average listener to stylish would see those ads and know, I'm not sure about this, but that's when the pressure of marketing creeps in. And that's where, you know, you have this like push, pull tension where it's like, oh, I know it's like maybe not going to be saying what it actually is. It's not doing what it says on the tin. But I, I am insecure about this and I maybe if I do start using this product now, I am going to look better in 10 to 15 years. So, you know, don't feel bad if you are one of those people who is skeptical or is questioning, you know, the legitimacy of these claims but is still falling for it because you're not alone.

[Ray]

Oh, hey, I work in marketing and let me tell you, I am working my way through that funnel. But I'm really glad you brought up the audience because we actually did survey a bunch of listeners. And look, a lot of you took the survey, but we also know by nature of surveys it is people who either have the time or have the interest in the topic.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So you're the most passionate. Like I best, best believe I'm completing a survey. I am pumping that keyboard

[Ray]

good on the sound effects today. We don't need the machine.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

I'm being too far.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Look, and tell us about what the community said.

[Ray]

Community, I'm here to speak your truth. We are in fact on the money. That majority of you do really have a negative association with Longevity marketing. And it's clear there's an overpowering sense of fatigue and exhaustion with the feeling that it never ends. You are our girlfriend at the pub

[Rhiannon Joyce]

and one wait, I actually think, was this her? It wasn't, but it's actually verbatim for what she said.

[Ray]

In what she said, one of your answers that we loved that really stood out to us was first it was to be skinny, then be yourself, then gut health, then cosmetic surgery. Now it's longevity.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I mean, yeah. The perfect synopsis of the constant. Wow, what's the word? It's almost like pursuit. Pursuit.

[Ray]

It's the constant pursuit. It felt reading that reminded me a lot of the Barbie monologue.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Despite all of you admitting this. And this is me, so I'm with the community on this. You know, it's marketing still sucking us in. A couple of you said hooks me every time I'm falling for it, I'm a sucker for it. Me too, babe.

[Ray]

Yeah, I'm not here to judge because amen. Probably got hooked in first and then hooked someone else in with me. I. E. AG1.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I did find it interesting that a lot of people who were completing the survey actually work in medical or medical adjacent fields. We had nurses, we had people who worked in medicine, nutrition, dietetics research and public health. So that is an interesting skew in terms of like, the data and also maybe the passion point as well. Because when you're in this industry, it must be incredibly frustrating to see brands use language like longevity reversal, like future proofing, and they must see that and be like, oh, this is so frustrating.

[Ray]

Where I am concerned for this generation is for the group who maybe cannot enjoy the best of both worlds and are being consumed by the stress and pressure and subsequent fatigue of feeling like they constantly have to be bettering themselves to have the best possible life for as long as possible and to be doing everything they can, no matter, you know, the consequences or the decisions that that requires, you know, how much sleep they need to be having, what they need to be eating, what they need to be buying, what they need to be injecting or doing. Like, I do think that would be an isolating place to be.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

One consideration as well is the family history side of things.

[Ray]

Yeah, I think this marketing is like largely puffery, fluffy language. And where I take issue with it is that it plays on not only like the female insecurities that we spoke about, but a lot of people will have either a family history of illness or a personal relationship with their own health that maybe is slippery and I think that's where, where this becomes a problem on a much deeper level that it is playing to people's insecurities about parents or grandparents they might have lost too soon or their own personal struggles with health and their belief that by doing or buying the things, they are playing catch up and make up for things that are potentially predetermined for them.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, it's interesting as well because some of these like that specifically. Yes. For people who are playing in that space of like the health and like, I think about Everlab, I get served ever label ads all the time. I'm pretty sure it's very expensive. It's basically a full body diagnostic.

[Ray]

It's like identifying precondition.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Ray]

You know, yes. Your predisposition to.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes. So that for me, I agree, definitely is someone who's probably got that family history would see those things, probably find them quite triggering, to be honest, or might feel very influenced to do that. What I don't understand in beauty is wise beauty. Borrowing this language and borrowing this trust from like the medical industry with all of this jargon. Like, I understand why brands like Estee Lauder are using the language longevity when it comes to, you know, replenishing your skin or trying to improve your skin. Where it gets confusing for me though is the borrowed language of longevity because to me, that's about extending your life. And that's where I think the unsettled feeling is coming from.

[Ray]

Where we want to talk next is where you, our listeners, are falling in terms of where you're spending on the health and wellness space versus the aesthetics and external space. So we're going to get into that right after a word from today's sponsor.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Homes are at their best when they feel collected over time rather than copied from a trend cycle. That's what we love about Fenton and Fenton. From statement furniture to beautiful lighting, rugs, art and homewares, every piece is thoughtfully curated to help you create a space that's forward personality. Explore the collection online or if you're in Melbourne, visit the brand showroom. Thank you so much to Fenton and Fenton for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[Ray]

Okay, guys, we read the iselect stat of the $141 billion industry and we were like, what are you, our audience actually spending? So we surveyed and asked a couple of questions. We asked, what are you spending a month on health and wellness. And by that we meant gyms, saunas, supplements, peptides, treatments, all the things. All the things. 40.3% of you said 100 to $250 per month. 28.3% of you said 250 to $500 a month. 22.2% said 0 to $100. So overwhelmingly, the stat showed us that most of you were spending 100 to $500 per month, which works out to be a year annualized 1,200 to $6,000 per year.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So not too far off from what the average was.

[Ray]

No, not too slightly.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Slightly under, I would say. If you're looking at that higher end of the 6,000, I would like to report that I'm sitting very comfortably in the 28.3%.

[Ray]

You are sitting at the 250 to 500amonth.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

I am. Where are you?

[Ray]

I am also guilty of being. I'm like, is my accountant listening?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, we also asked you guys, what health and wellness categories are you spending your hard earned money on? Massively, 88% said workouts, gym and personal training. Second most was 53% said supplements and vitamins. 26% of you said saunas, and another 26% said massages. 23% said fitness subscriptions or wearables. So that's like what I called out earlier, Strava. I've also got a chorus watch and an Oura ring. The Oura ring was gifted though. And full transparency. Shameless Media are doing paid partnerships with Aura across Shameless and stylish.

[Ray]

And look, interestingly, Ray, buying organic food and therapy actually scored lower than those. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I was shocked to see that more people were getting saunas or massages than going to see a therapist. Because to me, a long and happy life isn't just about, you know, an. A physical internal world or how I externally show up in the world through my physicality. It is also about having great mental health. And for me, going to my psychologist is just as important as going to the gym.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, but do you know what? There are no advertisements out there really outside of like government messaging that is encouraging you going to the therapy. How many ads out there for going to the sauna, taking all the products? Not everyone sees therapy as an investment into something to, you know, improve their future self.

[Ray]

And like, that's such a brilliant point, Ray, and a really concerning one, to be frank, because, you know, there is so much pressure and anxiety and animosity to this industry right now. And Skeptic is sort of at the under layer of all of it. But ultimately, like a lot of people still saying they're a sucker for it, I do worry about the things that are coming off to be engaging in the thing that we're constantly being served or promoted because it's easier and it's accessible and it can rock up at our door. And I don't know about anyone else's therapist, but mine certainly doesn't get delivered on a Wednesday between 9 and 11am When I select the window. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I've got to go there. I've got to make the time. It's in business hours. It's hard.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's hard. That's such a good point. It's not like an easy accessible service. Let's talk about supplements for a sec because I was really surprised that over half of the community are taking supplements.

[Ray]

I was so surprised by this because supplements are not cheap. Even if you're going to chemist warehouse and buying like you know, your average multivitamin and you know, a vitamin D supplement, like it's not a cheap exercise.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. It's also a very vast category. And one thing I find this is very much me justifying my investment in my spend in measurable results. Like I find I don't feel bad about spending money on my chorus and my Strava subscription because it's tracking my heart rate. My heart rate is like a general metric for me to measure my fitness levels and help with my running. Like that feels like justifiable because I can measure it. Not all supplements, some are and some are proven to obviously improve like your well being and your health. But not all of them are and it's a little bit more playing into that placebo effect. So I found it interesting that that spend was greater for something that you couldn't really measure.

[Ray]

Yes, I completely agree because I think where a lot of wearables do deliver is that there is a tracking and a system and data points that you can assess whether it's, you know, getting better, getting wet.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Look.

[Ray]

Yeah, the type A's in us are like E Achievement.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I love daughter as well.

[Ray]

Whereas, you know, you take a supplement, you might be like, oh, I feel less bloated or like, oh, I'm, you know, going to the bathroom more regularly or my skin's getting better or you know, I'm sleeping better because I'm having magnesium. But like there's, it's kind of a, a feeling that you have. Not so much a fact, it's definitely

[Rhiannon Joyce]

a feeling but also it's probably a price point thing as well. You know, a lot of wearables are more expensive so people immediately might be put off by that because of how much they cost, which is fair enough. I honestly want to finish up with how we feel about this. Like, how do you feel about longevity marketing now that we've covered all three of these areas?

[Ray]

Now that we've covered all of it? Where I feel most passionate is that the ACCC have a job to do here because, and you know, they are the body for claims and consumer affairs. And I think how brands and businesses are talking to people, especially when there's the breadth of ads that we're talking about or the products that we're talking about, it's holding brands and businesses accountable for the way that they speak to people, particularly women. Because I do think that insecurities are being targeted to with a lot of language that feels largely unregulated at the moment. And I think we need to strike out some of it to ensure that the right things are being promoted in the right ways.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I do think there will be a crackdown. We're not there yet. In five years, we are going to be deepening this a lot more.

[Ray]

Yeah, I think for me, so much of it feels like it's lacking in true data that suggests longevity. And look, I think even, you know, with Brian, I think there is a big lens watching him. We are all sort of intrigued to see where to next. As I said, it's hit mainstream media. He's been on 60 Minutes, he's featured on the Kardashians. You know, he is considered a source of truth, of how to live as long as possible.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

He made living a long life his whole brand.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Yeah.

[Ray]

So I'm watching that space. I also do think this whole space, so much of it feels like it could be for good. And so much of it feels like a cowboy's lawless, this unregulated land. And that's probably the perfect piggyback off the first episode on Peptides that we did into this. I think so much feels unregulated, obviously to very different levels. What you're putting on your face is very different to something you might be injecting. But I am so intrigued to watch how the next five to 10 years plays out in this space.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I think that's a really good place to leave it. Guys, thank you so much for contributing to this week's episode. We do really, really appreciate your contribution, your passion points. And you know, there was a lot of that that really came through. So thank you again. We will see you next week on Wednesday. As always, guys, I'm a broken record.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

Leave a review if you love us.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It really helps us grow.

[Ray]

Help me

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

help you.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Feel free to email style-ishameusmedia.com or slide over into our DM, our new handle, Stylish to keep chatting to us. Really keen to hear your thoughts on this week's episode. Big thanks to the show's production team, Lucy Hunt, Kate Emmerburg and Zoe Twidel. And thank you, Mads.

[Ray]

Thank you, Ray.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You're welcome.

[Ray]

Always a pleasure.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

We'll see you on Wednesday.

[Ray]

Let's go have an AG one and lunch. Bye, Bone Pop. Bye, guys.

[MST Madison Sullendorf]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.