A (1:51)

I often think about the pale pink dress that she wore to the Oscars when she won and her dad bought her the Harry Winston jewels she wore. I mean, must be nice. But speaking of baby pink, I love Sarah Pigeon, who is playing Carolyn Bessette Kennedy on Love Story at the moment. And I was, like, obsessed with the glam. I actually loved the top half of the dress. I hated the bottom half.

C (2:14)

Yes, she kind of looked like a bon bon, like Christmas bon bon. A Balenciaga bonbon.

A (2:19)

And her glam was so soft and ethereal and like, just. It looked like the best version of her. She didn't look like she had makeup on road. Actually partnered with her on this. Oh, it said, get ready with road. This is very typical for makeup brands to do, so it'll be like, you know, Nas will have a face that they do. A Westman atelier will have a face that they do for, like, the Met Gala. But Rhoda's never really done this outside of Hayley, so I loved this, like, really jumping onto this, like, cultural moment and momentum. So it says, get ready with road. Sarah Pigeon's Actor Awards Glam by Emily Chang. Makeup Road Product breakdown. Skin and lips prep with Peptide Eye Prep, Caffeine reset Glazing milk and Peptide lip boost. Body moisturize with barrier butter for all over. Glow touches of color with Peptide lip shade in twist. My personal favorite, twist and lunge for those playing at home. A new shade of pocket blush and peptide lip tint. Coming soon. Bread crumb Ming done.

B (3:11)

Well, I was wondering what she was wearing on her chest, because the glow as she was walking onto the red carpet, I was literally like, I wonder what her makeup artist used on her chest. I'm glad that you said that.

A (3:20)

Well, we're going on Wednesday, and you best believe the girl will be putting lathering the barrier butter on the chest. Something tells me I'm not going to look like Sarah Pigeon, but I will do my best.

B (3:30)

All right, well, today we are discussing a TikTok about babies and marriage that sparked a lot of conversation online. We're talking about the Carolyn Bassett Kennedy craze that is influencing fashion and beauty trends right now and how to find homewares and fashion inspiration outside of Pinterest and your algorithm. But first, what are we swapping? In Annika's second last episode, we actually are surprised that she's here today.

C (3:51)

Honestly, last week I actually. Guys, this time next week, believe it or not, I might be a mommy, a mama, a mama Cedar. We shall say watch the space, but for one of my final swappings. Actually, it's not a final one because I'll be gracing your ears from afar. You know, I've got a lot to say.

A (4:09)

Your final in person. One of your final.

C (4:12)

One of my final is this really, really cool man that I follow. And I just love him because his bio reads taste maker, and that is exactly what he is. So his handle is Ian Hippolyte. Sorry if I butchered that, but he is just a really cool guy. And I don't say that.

A (4:33)

You don't like giving men flowers. Is that what he's saying? Like, I don't say men are cool.

C (4:37)

I actually would give this man flowers because he's just so traybian. But he posted a video recently and he was defining what he thinks the differences are between being luxurious and being chic. And it kind of got me thinking because obviously we're in this time and era right now where it's all about minimalism and quiet luxury and moving into maximalism. And the concept is kind of around two things, especially, like, obviously with the CBK moment in mind. But listen everybody very closely. Luxury is having money. Chic is having taste. Luxury saying what you think. Chic is knowing when not to. Love that luxuries being seen. Chic is being remembered. Love that luxury makes life comfortable. Chic makes life intentional. And then in the comments, someone was like, luxury screams chic whispers, which made me giggle. But in the infamous words of Rain and Joyce, two things can be true. And I think it's very true. But it got me thinking about how this concept plays out into real life and what we see on, like, inspiration and fashion and everything at the moment. Which would you rather be? I would rather be chic.

B (5:42)

As would I, every day of the week.

C (5:44)

But, yeah, I love him. Give him a follow because he's quite like he's really intentional with everything he does. He does a lot of content around his home, around his, like, personal wardrobing. And he's got like, a really nice English accent, which I'm just kind of really into. So, yeah, yeah, have a look.

A (5:58)

I fear it's probably best I don't go to the UK because I do love an English accent. My swap today is not that. It is the Glow Get Up Multi Oil body wash. Say that 10 times over. You actually got me onto this brand. Naturium.

B (6:14)

Yep.

A (6:15)

Is that how I say yep?

B (6:16)

Naturium.

A (6:16)

It felt wrong.

C (6:17)

Naturia.

A (6:17)

It didn't feel like it came out natural. I was very kindly gifted this product and I know something is good when despite having like two or three other body washes, I went into Sephora to buy yet another one.

C (6:29)

Yeah.

A (6:29)

So one of my New Year intentions, because, you know, I hate resolutions, was that I needed to stop acting like my skin care stopped after my nipples, because obviously my skin care is going down to there. Yeah, Lucky girls. But beyond that, it's like the rest of my body is like,

C (6:46)

there's nothing worse. Right? When you kind of like, does your guy's skin color change when it's not hydrated or is it just a me thing?

A (6:52)

No, it's like my legs are, like, purple when they haven't been hydrated.

B (6:56)

Oh, my God.

C (6:57)

Mine look like A lizard and they of like shed into a chameleon. It's actually quite frightful.

A (7:00)

Yeah it's when I'm taking my leggings off and like skin coming with them. That's probably not great.

B (7:04)

Been there.

A (7:05)

So I have been using that and I love it cuz if I forget to moisturize that night it's like a nice one just to go oh well at least I've used an oil based body wash so like there's a bit of hydration going on there. Yes, I really like it.

B (7:18)

This is why I use the l' Occitane one the arm and body wash body oil.

A (7:22)

I love when we do the bonus

C (7:24)

sw. Can I tell you what I use the Bioderma oil body wash. That is delicious like makes me feel good though which I like. I'm a scentsy Sally.

A (7:34)

Yeah I'm a bit scentsy Sally too but I haven't minded this.

C (7:37)

Scentsy soap.

A (7:38)

Scentsy soap.

C (7:39)

Jojo, what you got for us?

B (7:41)

Mine is another Sephora brand actually which is Byoma by Oma. Because I'm always looking for brands that are in a more accessible price point. I'm always mindful of being able to pull from various prices so that I can collate a routine. So I might have a client spend a little bit more on a serum then I'm trying to find a more affordable cleanser or moisturizer for them. This brand I actually trialed myself because I got sent some products a long time ago. This was like before it was in Sephora and I was like this is actually a good brand. Like I'm enjoying these products that I'm trying really like the Milky Moisture cleanser. The barrier plus repair treatment as well is really nice. And they also have a barrier plus eye product too that I've been using and Adrienne uses that as well. But really accessible price points. I think most things in the range are under $30 Australian, so love that for us. So pretty easy to get.

A (8:35)

Okay, next we're talking about a tick tock that's all about babies and marriage. That sparked a lot of online debate. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. It might be autumn, but if you're anything like me and my friends, you are clinging to those last moments of sunshine and squeezing in as many catch ups as humanly possible before we enter our hibernation era. I'm not saying our social life shuts up shop. Far from it. It just looks a little different. We host at home a little more dinner parties are more frequent and suddenly we feel like a glass of red wine. So before we reach that point, this is your friendly reminder to pencil in some quality time with your girls, surrounded by good food, good drinks and hopefully some good weather. If you need some inspiration in the drinks department, head straight to Dan Murphy's, not only because they have the biggest range, but because they're up to date on what's new, what's trending and what's arriving soon. No more wandering around the aisles aimlessly. Just beer, wine, spirits and ready to drink options that you and your friends are guaranteed to love, like the Pals Vodka, Peach and Passion fruit or the Suntory 196 lemon and passion fruit. Yum. Whether you're heading out or staying in, Dan Murphy's have got you sorted. Visit a Dan Murphy's store to chat to the team or jump on the app. Remember to choose to drink wise and thank you so much to Dan Murphy's for making this episode as stylish. Possible Foreign

B (10:00)

Headline for Today Would you unfollow someone because they got married or had babies? Last week, content creator Shan Riley posted a TikTok saying that she unfollows content creators who start posting bridal or baby content. The video has since been deleted, but we do have a short snippet from the original video to play so that you can get a little bit of a sense of it.

D (10:21)

No shade and no disrespect, but the second I see a chick start posting wedding content, bride content, bachelorette content, baby content, pregnancy content, I bow out. And it is absolutely no hate and

A (10:32)

no like, I think you're a bad person.

D (10:34)

I don't think any of that. I physically cannot witness those things because of the season of life that I'm in, and I recognize that there is honesty in that and toxicity in that. And I'm a human, so surprise, there's space for both.

B (10:48)

So the backlash on this video was pretty swift, with numerous creators stitching her original video and sharing their take. Content creator Eli Rallo had this to say about it.

E (10:58)

Why did you feel the need to get on this app and say I unfollow people when they become mothers or when they become brides. It was fucking weird to say in the tone in which it was stated, and then this conversation about it being selfish to have children in the year 2026. My gut reaction, like gut reaction response is that and this is not fleshed out, but that this is a chronically online take. First of all, why are the people being shamed Only people who are becoming mothers or only people with a uterus who are carrying children. I don't see anybody saying it's selfish to become a dad, but I see it's selfish to be pregnant. It's selfish to be pregnant. I see it's selfish to be pregnant. Not it's selfish to become a dad. Which is interesting.

C (11:34)

I don't know.

E (11:35)

Chew on that.

A (11:36)

Like, why?

E (11:36)

Only person that's being shamed in this conversation is a woman or a person with a uterus.

C (11:40)

So, yeah, that's odd.

B (11:42)

When we were talking about this video prior to recording, we came to the conclusion that it kind of points to a wider trend online of people individualizing their feeds to such a degree that they're existing in this hyper curated personal echo chamber with no friction. There's nothing that they don't believe in that they're being exposed to. So what did you guys think when you first saw this video?

A (12:06)

I mean, you're about to be a mommy, so why don't you go first?

C (12:09)

Okay. Before I had context, I was like, what the. I really was like, we're talking about it in our whip. And I was just like, who is this chick? Like, this sounds like such a you problem. And it sounded like a lot of projected projecting onto her audience. But then I did a little bit of a deep dive and I looked into who Shan Riley is. I looked at her content, I looked at her profile, and everything about this woman is centric around being proudly single. She kind of talks about choosing herself, not settling. And again, it does sound like you problems. It sounds like she's actually had probably some past experiences which has led her to where she is today. And that's why she's got such a strong stance on this. You do you so fine, so fair. But when you articulate your reasoning and when you decide to post a video about it, expect backlash because that is such a strong stance.

A (13:06)

Yeah, I completely agree. Also, I'm definitely gonna start using the phrase chew on it when I say something because I loved that from the creator. That bit back. I mean, much to your point at the intro, Jo, like, I have a real gripe with social media at the moment and I talk about this a lot with a girlfriend of mine who's a research fellow at Movember, Dr. Krista Fisher. We spoke to her for the last episode we did that. Algorithms create like narcissism because it can be good, bad and ugly. You interact with the content that you want to interact with. The more you watch, the more you see, the more it's going to generate content like it.

C (13:40)

Yeah.

A (13:41)

So how do you not strengthen your own belief when you are being served things that feel like, look like, and sound like what you like. Now, that could be as casual as outfits and DIY hacks for, like, I don't know, renovating your bathroom. Or it can be as sinister as fake news, political views that are potentially damaging to marginalized groups or to minorities. Or it can be something like this where, you know, it's hitting people. And it's just the shame thing. For me, I really loved that sentiment around, like, why are we. Why is this just a conversation about women? You're married, Joe. You're having a baby. Annika, I'm married to. And. So sorry. You're recently married, though you're recently. Well, not really recently impregnated. That's nearly nine months. I just think we build these worlds that are our own realities. And for me, what I was really disappointed by in this was just that it was one way or the other. And I do really believe in censoring things to protect yourself. And Annika, I'm sure you can agree with this. When I was going through fertility treatments, nothing broke my heart like seeing a baby announcement. And if I saw that, thank God for Instagram on that mute tool, because that was really hard for me and I would never unfollow someone. But also, it wasn't realistic for me to not go on my phone because I work in brand and marketing and I work with PR agencies and I do activations and have to do campaigns and I need to see what's going on in the world, and that is through my phone. So I couldn't unfollow them. But I also didn't want to consume that content now. If I just didn't want to see anyone get engaged or married, that just makes me bitter. Sorry. I love love. I have had a divorce. I settled on Friday. I was on the phone with you three bitches when it happened. Thank God. Three years and counting.

C (15:29)

But Friday was a great day.

A (15:30)

Friday was a fucking great day. Yeah, but I was just like, can't you love being single and love people falling in love and, yeah. Not have to be so angry at, like, people choosing a path that doesn't reflect yours. This just felt. I'm really ranting, but it just felt

C (15:44)

like she was projecting a thousand percent.

A (15:46)

And look, I am a party of one and very comfortable in singlehood. Find a lot of joy in it. Love going to weddings. Love going to baby showers. Both things are, like, really nice to me. But I also want to hold space for women who maybe do struggle with those life milestones and maybe do find themselves questioning or wondering when will it be my turn or will I ever get that turn? So I think it is difficult for them and navigating that if you are having a bit of that what about me ism.

C (16:15)

Yeah.

B (16:16)

I think the way that the video was delivered was a really big part of the problem here because I think she thought that she was giving this, like, feminist take.

C (16:26)

Yeah.

B (16:27)

And it just came across a bit condescending and exclusionary. So the way that it was delivered, I think was just not done well. But I think she could have conveyed her personal opinion in a way that was just a little bit more understanding and balanced. Maybe instead of coming at it from a really aggressive lens. It felt aggressive to me the way that she delivered it. But I do think that it's important to curate your own feed so that you don't feel like shit all the time when you're scrolling on your phone as you just alerted to, like, when you're going through a fertility treatment or you've just gone through a breakup. If I was posting my wedding content and someone that follows me was going through a breakup and didn't want to see my wedding stuff, I would be like, please, unfollow me. Like, the best thing that you could do is unfollow me.

C (17:06)

Totally.

B (17:07)

Come back later when all of this

A (17:08)

is over, when I've done my content

B (17:10)

rollout, come back free.

C (17:12)

Totally.

B (17:12)

But sometimes you just don't want to consume that content. And that's okay to unfollow someone.

A (17:16)

Yeah.

B (17:17)

Maybe you don't need to go about it in the way that Shannon Reilly.

C (17:19)

I know, right? Because it's like one thing to do it discreetly and it's one thing to do it offline. And it's like, you know what? I'm getting served content right now. It does not serve me. And I don't want to see that. I don't need to see it. It's not doing anything to me where I'm personally at or the season of life. I'm in. Fine.

A (17:35)

Ye.

C (17:36)

But when you go and talk about it and you have such a strong and, like, quite aggressive stance on it.

A (17:41)

Yeah.

C (17:42)

You've been open Pandora's box.

A (17:44)

Yeah. It felt quite performative. And I also veered from personal preference into judgment. And that's where I took an issue with it personally. And I also think probably when we were watching it and discussing it, I was like, okay, I am the single one that isn't having children or getting married anytime soon. Although hilariously, there was some form of driver outside, like blasting some love song that, like, slowed down right next to. And I. And I was like, I feel like someone's going to jump out of the boat. I say yes. But to unfollow someone that you know, if you don't know that content creator from New York, don't worry, they won't miss you. They won't think about you at all.

B (18:19)

Totally. That's what I was thinking. The video was in context with. Right. It was unfollowing creators that you've followed for a certain purpose, and then they start to post about other stuff that you're no longer interested in. I think if it's someone you know, that's pretty fucking harsh.

C (18:32)

It's so harsh. Would you reckon, like, when you obviously started posting content from your wedding, Joe, did you notice, like, any shifts and followers or any shifts in engagement?

B (18:42)

Oh, people were like, engaging with all of my content. It was going off, but I didn't notice a drop in any followers. But I also wouldn't have been offended if someone said to me on the street, I had to unfollow you because you're posting about your wedding and I

C (18:55)

just want to know how to look like a dewy dumpling, just like you. Like, all I want is this. Not this. Imagine.

A (19:00)

Yeah.

B (19:00)

But I also didn't deviate too far. I didn't actually really talk about my wedding too much in the lead up. Like we did talk talk about in this podcast, but on my socials, I really didn't speak to it that much. I was talking about, like, my skin prep and things. I did a couple of videos, but nothing really to do with, like, the styling or the planning of it or anything like that, because that's not my niche, so.

C (19:17)

Totally. Yeah. It's been so interesting for me because I actually have got people wanting me to talk more about my journey, more about my pregnancy, more about pregnancy, styling and all these things, which I'm just lazy. So, like, I kind of just haven't. But it's been really interesting seeing the community engagement and why our followers come to us and what they expect from us. And I think it's been really quite humbling saying how much. How invested they are in this journey that I'm in.

A (19:42)

Yeah.

B (19:43)

Think of it on the flip side to what Shannon Riley has said. What if someone was in exactly the same season as you and suddenly you announce that you're pregnant? They're also pregnant at the same time. They also really love your style. They're like, fuck, yeah. This is jackpot. I'm like, my favorite person to follow is now pregnant as well. Great.

A (20:00)

There's a duplicity that I just think is being ignored and that frustrates me beyond measure. It's okay for someone who loved you last year, who isn't pregnant to still admire that style or opt out of it equally. It's fine. They opt in. I just, I don't understand at the moment why it's so categorized. It's almost like if you're single, people feel like they're angry at people for doing these other life stages. People who are mothers have neglected their friends who don't have kids. Like, it just feels like there's these attacks at all ends. And much to the point of Eli Rallo, none of my male friends are like, and I'm unfollowing him because he's a dad now, asshole. Or he is so happy being single and shagging around town. Like, no one's angry at, you know, Tom, Dick or Harry, but we're angry at women.

C (20:48)

It makes no sense. Yeah.

A (20:50)

Someone said to me recently at a wedding, oh, you must hate coming to weddings.

C (20:53)

Oh.

A (20:54)

And it's like, why would you possibly think that?

B (20:57)

Did you say, that's an interesting thing to say out loud.

A (20:59)

I said, I love love. You will not find someone who loves a wedding more than me.

C (21:03)

I can double down on that. I've seen her and her element. Joe's wedding girl knows how to get down. She loves.

A (21:11)

Also, like, I'll cry at the mom's speech. I'll cry at the dad's speech. I'll cry when the bride walks down the aisle. I'll cry when I see the flower girls. I am the ultimate wedding guest. Honestly, I should. Wedding crashes 2.0, let's go. So I just, I just don't like that there's like, like this thing where we just assume women are one sided, one faced. We can't be multi dimensional. We've already been so segmented with patriarchy. Why the are we doing it to each other?

C (21:37)

Do you know what I'm intrigued to say?

A (21:38)

What?

C (21:39)

What happens when Shan Riley comes out of the season and when she wants to go and announce her engagement?

A (21:44)

Yeah,

B (21:47)

backtrack. Although she did delete the video already.

C (21:48)

Sorry, I know it was swift.

B (21:50)

Yeah.

A (21:51)

Just another thing. We were talking about this, Ray and I, I think we spoke about it on Mike. Just people wanting people to be so definitive at the moment. It's kind of like you can't have an opinion unless you're getting to the like, full stop end point of that opinion at the moment. And I just, you know, the Internet footprint is there forever. So, like, do you want to say that with your chest? Because, like, you may not be single to your point forever, Shad. And you've also got a lot of friends who might be single now but will very likely go into those last stages. They're the two most common life stages. Spoiler alert.

B (22:23)

They're going to be hiding her from their stories.

A (22:26)

They're not a unique female experience. I'd say there's probably more of them than not.

B (22:30)

Next, we are discussing how the Carolyn Bessette Kennedy craze is influencing fashion and beauty trends. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor.

A (22:39)

Friends. Whether you're heading out this weekend, having people over or laying low with a glass of wine, make your first stop the Dan Murphy's app. The Dan Murphy's team have gathered all of their top picks across beer, wine, spirits and ready to drink options so you know exactly what to try next. For inspiration on what's new and what's trending in the world of drinks, visit Dan Murphy's. Remember to choose to drink wise. And thank you so much to Dan Murphy's for making this episode as stylish possible. Okay, our next headline is how the Carolyn Bessette Kennedy craze is influencing fashion and beauty now.

B (23:16)

I can't wait to talk about this.

A (23:18)

It's something we've spoken about a couple of times before. I mean, the Ryan Murphy show Love Story, which documents the romance between John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bessette Kennedy. We've spoken about it a lot. We spoke about it when we first saw those behind the scenes glimpses. We saw it when they were doing the test shots and the subsequent backlash online that followed. Like the outrage was outraging. And more recently, when the trailer and now the series has come out, we've entered what I would say. Like, I feel like my feed has always had Carolyn Bessette Kennedy in it at some point, but I feel like we've hit Carolyn Bessette Kennedy fever pitch saturated.

C (23:56)

Every day I'm getting served new content and I'm so here for it same

B (24:00)

and I'm watching all of it, right?

C (24:01)

And each day I'm learning something new and I'm just like this woman. Like, I know we'll get into this,

A (24:05)

but she is just like, she's an echo. I'm an all in Australia alone over the last month, there's been an increase of 30 in searches. I honestly thought this would have been more. But internationally searches for CBK Wedding Ring, CBK Wedding Dress and CBK Engagement Ring picture have reached breakout status on Google Trends, which means the search terms have increased by 5,000 or more percent.

E (24:28)

Wow.

A (24:29)

I did Google her engagement rate, so

C (24:32)

clearly it's part of the 5,000 that is stunning look.

A (24:36)

There's no denying her style has kind of defined 90s minimalism, which likely explains the influx of social media videos we're seeing. How to style like cbk, how to dress like cbk, how to be chic like cbk, how to be understated like cbk. She's influencing beauty trends as well, though. I feel like maybe we've been quite singular on the fashion view, but in New York, Carolyn's signature headband by French accessories brand Charles W. Warbur is, according to the New York Post, flying off shelves and was doing so even before the show aired. Doesn't shock me. I feel like the headband thing's kind of been back for a while. At Proenza, Schoolers recent show models had low ponytails that were reportedly inspired by her signature hairstyle. Carolyn's signature lipstick, a shade called Cranberry Veil by Face Stockholm, has now sold out too. You both mentioned that it's flooding your feeds that you've hit fever pitch yourselves and loving every minute of it.

B (25:29)

I binged it on the weekend.

A (25:30)

How good is it all four episodes.

B (25:32)

Five episodes.

A (25:33)

Oh, shit.

C (25:34)

Yes.

B (25:34)

I watched the latest one where it has the fight in the park.

A (25:37)

Oh, was that I'm up to date.

B (25:39)

Yeah. That's the most recent one, I believe.

A (25:40)

Before we dive into it, I brought this up at a hand. How do you feel watching the show?

B (25:45)

I honestly feel really emotional watching it because I know how it ends. And that has made me really like on edge watching the whole series because I'm like preparing for this tragic event to happen. It's like such a nice series to watch it all unfold. Like, everyone loves watching someone's love story evolve in this kind of fictional way. There are obviously a lot of fictional elements to this show. It's not obviously exact fact, but I feel guilty a little bit watching it because there have been people that have come out that have said you shouldn't be kind of profiting off, I feel amazing lives. But it's also just so intriguing to people. It's like I can't look away.

C (26:23)

Yeah, it has that effect, right? It actually Just makes me love New York City so much. Yeah. I wish that I could have visited, like, New York, downtown New York in the 90s. I wish I could have been part of that scene. I wish I could have immersed myself in New York City at that time. Because everything about it is just such a vibe. People are carefree. Like, people are just living life. And it was before social media. It was before, like, they had paparazzi back then without chasing them around the streets. And it's just like a different vibe and energy, which I'm just so drawn to, but agree with you guys. Like, it's obviously such a tragic ending. And so knowing how it's going to end makes me feel really, like, quite emotional and just seeing their story and understanding them so much more. Because there is this mystique about cbk, which I think that's what draws me to her. Like, it's her aura. It's who she is. And I just feel like getting to know her, it's such a shame that she was gone so soon. And obviously JFK Jr. As well.

A (27:17)

I just feel immense guilt. I feel sick watching it. Like, every time I finish an episode, I feel really guilty, I think, because the family have come out and said that we think this is disgusting. And, like, I haven't seen this everything. Jack Schlossberg, who is JFK jr's nephew, came out and was like, I think this is disgusting. Like, if you had family tragically die, you're profiting on their lives and their privacy and you don't have the facts. So I feel. And I. I'm such a Kennedy, Stan. Like, I just.

C (27:46)

We know.

A (27:47)

Yeah, I know. We know. But I just. Every time I watch it, I feel like I'm watching, like, oh, okay.

C (27:54)

That makes me quite emotional.

A (27:56)

Also, I have this weird thing about children of famous people that I feel conflicted about because they don't pick it.

B (28:02)

Yeah.

A (28:03)

Like, his dad was president.

C (28:04)

Yes. And then he was born into him.

A (28:06)

Yeah.

B (28:07)

He didn't choose that life.

A (28:08)

I really liked what you said about this mystique about cbk, because there's, like, lots of people that are like, you know, like, what would CBK wearing, like, doing these FIT checks. And I feel like she's the antithesis of an influencer.

C (28:19)

Yeah. Yeah. Without being an influencer.

A (28:21)

She is like a person of. She's the perfect definition of a person of influence, not an influencer.

C (28:26)

Yes.

A (28:27)

And I can't help but feel she

C (28:29)

would hate this thousand percent.

A (28:32)

Like, hate is like the strongest word to use. And yeah. I underlined scored, bolded, all the things. Make it bigger text.

C (28:41)

I feel like she'll be, like, disgusted, sickened, that, like, she has, like, been put in the spotlight like this when all she ever wanted was her privacy.

A (28:47)

Yeah.

C (28:48)

A 1999 article by Vanity Fair coined her the Private Princess. And I, like, went so deep in this article. It's all in, like, double page spreads in black and white. Like, it was so beautiful and she was like the ultimate homebody. So down to just be by herself with her husband and their dogs. Like, she was so cozy at home, like, behind closed doors.

A (29:08)

Because when you even think about it, I did a deep dive, like on Pinterest, just, like, looking at photos of her to, like, kind of come armed for this conversation. There are not that many looks of hers. We say no. Like, I think that Maybe I found 45 different images of her in outfits.

C (29:22)

Yeah.

A (29:23)

Given the public profile of her, that's kind of fudgeing extraordinary that there are that limited amount of photos and video content.

B (29:31)

Even less so, like, barely any video content of her, especially her speaking.

A (29:36)

There's like two or three inches where, like, they've caught her and she's, like, running in or out of something.

B (29:41)

Yeah.

A (29:41)

Do you think Love story, Obviously we had the conversation. We were like, whoa, Hell to the no. Ryan Murphy. This is not looking like our cbk. Do you feel that the style is reflective of her?

B (29:53)

So far it does feel a lot more authentic than it did previously. I think they've done a much better job on the costuming. Like, so far I haven't looked at anything and it's stood out to me as being wrong.

A (30:04)

Yeah.

B (30:05)

You know what I actually feel about the outfit? I haven't even noticed most of her outfits, and I think that's exactly what it's designed to be. She is the character. It's not her clothes wearing her. She's wearing the clothes. And it's to the point where I don't even notice what she's wearing. She just looks great.

A (30:20)

I don't think they've nailed the glam. I don't think they've nailed the hair. I think the hair's too long.

B (30:25)

Hair's a bit long, I reckon.

A (30:26)

I think it's slightly too long. She did have long hair, though. It's too blonde for me. And I don't think they've nailed this, like, signature kind of like pinched lip, I'll call it. You know, like that little, like, beast

C (30:36)

the button kind of like just had a little cheeky smooch, like. Yeah,

B (30:42)

they've done a good job of making it look very minimal, though. Like, she's not even wearing makeup, which was a rule at Calvin Klein at the time. Very minimal makeup. You had to have your hair, like, pulled back off your face. Very minimal makeup. You couldn't look like you were trying too hard.

A (30:56)

Yeah.

C (30:56)

Oh, I like that. Hot tip. Teach the fashion girlies something, JoJo. Thank you. You know what, though? So going back to this, I feel looking at the time, looking at the era, right. Thinking of the 90s as a whole, and the 90s being so coined by minimalism, I can't help but wonder, looking at a lot of the outfitting, like, to your point, Joe, I agree. I feel like they've done a really good job at making, like, the clothing not so prominent and taking over from the character, because that's what it's about. But I do have to think that is the clothing and the outfitting just a response as well to the time, because obviously the 80s was such a big more is more excess. Like, we had Versace. We had so many brands coming out there in such bold prints. Color was the era of the power suit neon. It was such a time of excess. And then obviously when the recession hit, everything kind of slowed down. We were more intentional. Everything was a bit more practical. So Calvin Klein, Jill Sander, Harmer, Lang, all had such a rising moment. And I look at her wardrobing now with that lens as well, and obviously of all the criticism we saw from the original test shots, and I'm like, they actually, I think, in my opinion, have defined the era really, really well, which gives everything to me that like, little bit more of authenticity. Like, even just looking at JFK's wardrobing. I love that man.

A (32:16)

He is so delicious.

B (32:18)

I love that actor.

C (32:19)

Delicious.

A (32:20)

He is probably the best looking man I've ever seen come across TV ever.

C (32:25)

I like, want to say almost hall pass. Like, I kind of. That's like, usually my whole pass is like, rappers. Yeah.

A (32:30)

All right. Well, there you go. Jury has spoken. Also, I love a fresh face on tv. I've guessed what I was going to say.

B (32:37)

Yes.

A (32:38)

But, you know, like, we see the same actors a lot. We see them recycled.

C (32:41)

We do.

A (32:42)

He was. They said they were trying to find someone who looked like JFK and someone who looked like they could be a movie star and tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.

B (32:49)

Yeah.

C (32:49)

Was this his breakout, like, first kind of big thing as well?

A (32:52)

He was modeling, but not. I mean, that's not hard to imagine.

B (32:58)

Can we talk about for a moment the haters online basically saying her style is basic. What are you guys trying to recreate? You're just putting a sweater on and some pants and some boots and calling it a day and saying it's CBK style. And I think it's really important to understand that. It's almost like her aura is what made her stylish. She was also tall and skinny.

C (33:20)

Yeah.

B (33:21)

So that's a really important part of the puzzle as well, is that she was kind of like a supermodel, walking around the streets, just wearing basics and making them look so effortlessly chic. She didn't even have to try, basically.

A (33:33)

But it's kind of that thing like, everyone lost their minds at that. Footage of Margot Robbie coming into Sydney airport for the Wuthering Heights. She was in a white tee, black belt, blue denim, and she had on a pair of. I think they were chavoke sunglasses that any girl in Melbourne could wear that outfit. There was nothing exceptional about that. Margot Robbie Aura Level 4000. Yeah, she looks fucking cool. Yeah. I wear that. And you'd be like, oh, didn't want to think about putting on an outfit today. It's like there's just, you know, it's the je ne sais quoi.

C (34:06)

Yeah.

A (34:07)

So I'm so sorry to all the girls on Tick Tock that are recreating the cbk. I love it because I like minimalistic things. Yeah, you look great. It's clean. You're not cbk. You're sorry. Tick Tock girlies.

C (34:16)

I think as well, like, it's so interesting because this is why I think I'm personally so drawn to her. It's her aura, it's her mistake. It's everything about her. It's that privacy aspect as well, that we don't actually know so much about her. So the more we learn and the more that unfolds, I'm just 10 times more into her. And I think when it comes to her style, okay, it might look simplistic to the naked eye, but it's about the drape. It's about the craft, it's about the fit. Everything about her is so intentional. She's effortless, but then she's probably putting a lot of effort in. But you don't get that vibe from her because it's just like her clothing is just literally, like, on her body. She wears the clothes. The clothes don't weigh her.

A (34:55)

Yeah.

C (34:55)

Yeah. And I think that's not what everyone can recreate at home.

A (34:58)

I totally agree. I also think that there's great self restraint that has never been acknowledged about her. The access and privilege that she would have had to designers, to brands.

B (35:08)

I was just about to say that,

A (35:10)

like, for her to have. It's widely rumored that a lot of pieces. She loved Prada. She loved Prada, but she would ask for Prada logos to be taken off pieces because she didn't want to be showy or flashy.

C (35:20)

Yeah.

A (35:20)

You look at all of her red

C (35:22)

carpet chic, honey, not luxury.

A (35:24)

Yes. A lot of her red carpet appearances, and when they're, like, dressed at galas and balls, she's not wearing jewelry. Like, and if she is, it's very minimal. It's like a pearl earring or a pearl necklace. The jewelry collection this woman probably had access to or jewelers that she could have loaned pieces from in abundance.

B (35:42)

And I did see a tick tock. I think that said, one of her friends had commented that even from like high school, she just wasn't a jewelry girl.

A (35:49)

Yeah.

B (35:49)

And I think that's what I can appreciate about her and her style is that she never let it leave who she was. It was like, even though she had access to all of these amazing designers and she could have worn labels and be been fully decked out, she wasn't. She just stuck true to what her style was. And she didn't really let her change in lifestyle influence that.

C (36:09)

God, this really is icon status. Hey. Like, she would hate it, but you were such an icon.

B (36:13)

We love you.

A (36:14)

I know. She's like, please don't talk about me. That's the last thing I wanted.

C (36:19)

Okay, so our next headline is where to get styling inspo. Outside of what the algorithm serves you. God, we need this one, you guys. I'm like, I don't know about you both, but I'm so over my algorithm. Unless it's cbk. So the idea that people are really craving new references or new ways of seeking references when it comes to styling, both in fashion and in homewares, feels like a conversation that has been circling us recently. We've been talking about this, haven't we? A lot.

A (36:47)

Yeah.

C (36:47)

Okay. Interesting.

A (36:49)

Wow.

C (36:49)

We're always on the pulse over here. This. This organically came up during our stylish face to face with the founder of Broadsheet, Nick Shelton, who said, it looks like everyone's got taste and it's homogenized, but that's actually not true. Having real, proper, true taste is something to be considered and thought through. And really, I think the cream rises to the top. Do you agree?

A (37:09)

I completely agree. I loved this from Nick. I Did that face to face interview. So I was like, oh yeah, we did do that. Yeah. I always find it interesting when it's kind of like when someone looks like they're really cool.

C (37:21)

Yeah.

A (37:21)

And then you meet them and it's horribly disappointing because you realize they don't have a point of view. I'd so much rather look at someone and be like, I don't. I appreciate your style or your taste. It's not mine. But like if you've got a point of view and like you know what you like and what you don't and it's different, I appreciate that way more than being like, oh, we have the same taste totally.

C (37:41)

It's like when you say it with your chest. Okay, so online. This creator, probably Tamsin, who directly put it down to people not developing their own taste because the Internet has become a digital wetness spoon feeding you aesthetics. She continues in this clip we've pulled for you.

F (38:00)

Stop listening to strangers on the Internet telling you what is chic and what is good and what is stylish because they can put together a nice looking mood board or a 60 second video where they taken a load of images from Pinterest and been like, this is it guys. Developing good taste requires curiosity, it requires friction, it requires longevity and practice. Whether you love me or hate me, both my supporters and my haters alike will never say that I have bad taste. And when I did a video about taste on my main account, I saw a comment from somebody who was Gen Z, more Gen Z, who had expressed the fact that because their generation in particular have been told what to wear, what the trends are, how to dress, and it's all been dictated to the they haven't had any chance to actually curate their own sense of self.

C (38:36)

I feel somewhat attacked, but anyway, why

A (38:39)

do you feel attacked?

C (38:40)

Well, I'm actually back in my Pinterest era. I am so going to Pinterest Vincepo right now and I'm curating looks, I'm curating my mom feeds, I'm curating like everything on Pinterest and a lot of it is information and I guess content that I'm being served part of the algorithm and a lot of it sometimes is very much in my style formula, so to say. So I feel a little attacked.

A (39:07)

How do you feel about it, Jo?

B (39:09)

Oh, fucking hell. This was pretentious. That video I watched and I was just like, this is the biggest first world problem I've ever heard in my life. She was in this video, she's like, to have taste, you have to go and see the art and see the brush strokes in person. Most of us are trying to get to work on time. Okay.

C (39:27)

I love it so much when you get pissed. Like when Joe gets pissed off, guys, it is like savage belly comes out and I love it.

A (39:36)

Give you the step to get on the high horse. I might get on there. I'll help. Use me. Use me as the step ladder. I'll get on all fours. You can step on me to get up there. It was just one of those things that I watched and I was just

B (39:45)

like, oh, go touch some grass. Honestly, if you want to use Pinterest

C (39:50)

to get some stuff, go take your shoes off, sweetie, and go Santa nature.

B (39:53)

Yeah, that's my take anyway. Go on.

C (39:55)

I love it.

A (39:56)

Look, I'm inclined to agree. And you know what, Joe? No one will ever accuse you of not doubling down and saying what you feel with your chest. On the flip side, I am bloody bored by my own Pinterest. I look at it now and it's like, I don't know how many more 90s blowouts and cable knit looks it can serve me. I'm like, pinterest, all good. I'm already doing both of those things. Get off enough. It's like, I looked at one because, you know my outfit rule. If, like, I want to buy a piece now I have to find like nine or ten Pinterest that I can be like, okay, that's forming that world. But now the algorithm thinks that's all I want to see. And I'm like, no, I don't need another leopard coat. All good. I'm convinced. All good. Don't need to see another.

B (40:32)

I bought it.

A (40:34)

I haven't yet, actually. Still on my wish list. Got things to buy first, but I'm like, it's curated. A world that's like, okay, like, that looks like a singular thing.

B (40:42)

What I didn't like about this take was you're not stylish or you don't have taste if you don't source your taste outside of the Internet.

C (40:51)

And it has to have friction.

B (40:52)

Like, we're allowed to get our inspiration from anywhere. At the moment, I'm getting inspiration from walking through other people's houses, hoping that I can potentially buy it.

A (41:01)

Well, do you know what I was going to say? I've got more than enough friction. I'm a 30, nearly one year old woman who is single with a big fat golden retriever, running my own business, working like a dog. There is more than enough fucking friction in my life. So you Know what? You back the fuck off. And if I want to find a jacket on a served ad on TikTok, you leave me the fuck alone. And if somebody tells me to buy the blush on Instagram, guess what? If it looks good and she's got the same complexion, I'm going to fucking buy it.

B (41:28)

I think I riled us up.

F (41:29)

I know.

A (41:30)

I'm like, you know what? I've got fucking taste.

C (41:32)

I'm literally, like, deceased right now because I'm like, have we ever been more pissed? I'm looking at both of you like, holy shit, we've struck a nerve. So the idea that you need to look beyond the Internet for inspiration when it comes to styling isn't just for fashion. We also hear it in design and other creative choices. For example, on the podcast Hot Smart, Rich, Ashwara Ayer, founder of luxury olive oil brand Brightland, said when she's looking for inspiration and pulling references for her brand, she avoids online content in favor of, you're going to love this, Joe French. For Italian magazines and looking at car ads, she said she goes to the museum and finds a color to pull a reference from.

A (42:10)

Do you know what? This is, like, such a good point, though, because I think it's not about hating on people. Like, I mean, this video did come off that it was like, don't just find it on your algorithm, girlies. Stick on your algorithms. You do you whatever you like. But I think it's kind of like, and let's go back to Face to Face, the episode we did with Elliot Garner, where he's like, like, what characters do you like? What do you watch on tv or how do you want to feel like? I think even when people are, like, doing 90s minimalism, like, Rachel Green or Jennifer Aniston, her character and friends is brought up a lot. It's like, but what was that energy? Like, you don't have to go and get the Rachel haircut. I don't know that it's going to hit as well in 2026 as it did in the 90s. But, like, what was that feeling? And what would that look like now? Or when you're reading a magazine or seeing an editorial, like, did you love the glam on that? Like, like, what about her hair did you love? Like, I don't think it's hating on the algorithm. It's just, like, getting us to look maybe outside of just Pinterest or just Instagram and feeling inspired. I don't know. My favorite place to see outfits is my local coffee shop. Yeah, if I sit in there and work on like a Monday or Friday when I'm usually working from home. And like I'm there and I'm like at 7 or 8am watching like women come in. I'm like, these fabulous women working in real estate, working in retail stores, like going to pick up their kids, like drop off their kids. I mean, if you're picking up your kids at 8am probably painted school camp. But I'm like, I love. That's my favorite way to find for fashion. Inspiration is at Bruno and co Toddler.

C (43:34)

I think as well on that. I have just found that with my algorithm right now. Like, it's been serving me so much mummy content that I'm just obviously bored. And I think as well for me, like, when I actually need inspiration again, I do go to kind of the Archives. And I know that's kind of going to sound so cliche because it's all about the 90s right now, but the archives is sometimes where I feel like we can look at fashion. And I say this all the time. I love the concept of looking back while looking forward and kind of meshing that into my style. But kind of to your point, meds now I'm going to be a privileged little princess. But my favorite place to get inspiration is from travel. And so like when I'm in New York, I literally will immerse myself in the culture. Even in Paris, like, I so cozy to just go to a cafe, get a glass of wine or a matcha and just take it all in. Because the woman around me, the people around me, the energy around me is what inspires me. I can't help it. But when I come back from a work trip or just travel in general to feel so inspired. And I want to do that more here, like actually get offline and go and put myself at the museum doll.

B (44:37)

So we love people watching is what we're saying. Because I can agree with that.

C (44:40)

Love people watching.

A (44:41)

Great place to people watch the National Gallery of Victoria. Yes. Go to the Friday night at NGV1 is like the best undiscovered. Like, I don't know why that is not way more packed on a Friday. The energy is buzzy, the people are interesting. The gallery is beautiful. Like, it's one of my favorite places to go.

C (44:59)

It's a vibe.

A (45:00)

Like go get a mulled wine in the winter. Tick. Get toe if you're feeling like it. It's like that is great. People watching and people are like turning a look and they're coming from work. Yeah, I'M like, why are you wearing that to work? Damn it. I'm out here in the jeans and the white T shirt looking like Teemu Margot Robbie. I think we'll wrap it up there for this week's episode of Stylish, Annika's second last episode. If she doesn't pop. Thank you very much, Joanna Fleming. An extra big thank you to you, Annika Joshi Smith.

B (45:29)

Thanks, Punch.

C (45:30)

It's always a pleasure, never a chore. Love you mst. Love you, jf. Oh, jf.

B (45:36)

You can do JCF if you want. I'd like to hyphen my name.

A (45:40)

Are you going to?

B (45:41)

No, but wait for this podcast.

A (45:42)

Okay.

C (45:42)

Okay, jcf.

A (45:43)

There we go. I was like, whoa, have we just got breaking news?

C (45:45)

Wait, no, it would be jfc.

B (45:47)

Yeah, whatever.

C (45:50)

There we go.

A (45:51)

Remember, you can email us anytime at style-ishamelessmedia.com or you can slide on into our DMS over at Stylish Pod. We, of course, are very grateful for our shameless media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate and Adam Work, who make these episodes possible. You'll hear from us next Wednesday. See you then.

B (46:10)

Bye.

C (46:22)

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be, aboriginal land.

G (46:28)

Hello guys, it's Rhea here from Stylish Friday Episodes. On our latest Friday episode, Mads and I actually cover the rise of illegal peptides that are taking over our our TikTok feeds. They are absolutely everywhere. I cannot escape this content. We cover the full story on what peptides actually are, why we think they're on the rise, and the pressure we're all feeling as this conversation circles around. It's on our Internet feeds, it's in the media, it's even bleeding into our catch ups with girlfriends on the weekends. So safe to say, it is everywhere. Look out for the episode it's titled Are Peptides all over your feed too? On the stylish feed.