The ‘fridge cigarette’ rivalry

Summary

Style-ish – "The ‘Fridge Cigarette’ Rivalry"

Host: Rhiannon Joyce (A)
Co-host: Madison Sullivan Thorpe (B)
Date: June 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the cult rivalry between Coke Zero and Diet Coke, exploring how two drinks from the same parent company inspire passionate brand loyalty, spark viral cultural moments, and intersect with broader conversations about fashion, gender, wellness, and nostalgia. Rhiannon and Madison depict how Coke Zero has dethroned Diet Coke as the “cool girl” soft drink, why the branding strategies work, and what’s next for sugar-free sodas in a changing wellness and pop culture landscape.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cultural Nostalgia and Brand Power

• Kylie Minogue's resurgence fuels discussion on how brands and icons return to relevancy ([00:59]).
  • Madison: “The scope of Kylie as a brand…and the way that she burst onto the scene…I forgot how big of a megastar she is.”
  • Both hosts discuss how Kylie is a perennial pop icon, making her the only draw to the AFL Grand Final for them this year ([01:50]).
• ‘Go-to skincare’ as a lifestyle brand: The hosts chat about Goto’s evolution towards catering to customers in perimenopause, reflecting how brands must grow with their audiences ([02:06]-[03:36]).
  • Madison: “They're really meeting their customer where she is now. They're moving into this sort of perimenopause stage…”

2. Coke Zero vs. Diet Coke – The Rivalry Heats Up

• How the rivalry began: Sparked for the hosts by a recent Wall Street Journal article, “The Ice Cold Civil War between Diet Coke and Coke Zero Drinkers” ([04:14]).
  • “All you need to do is say at 3pm, should we go and get a... to know where people stand.” ([03:55] – Madison)
• Brand Loyalty & Passion:
  • Rhiannon notes: “I cannot believe how Ride or Die people are for their preferred drinks.” ([04:14])
• Historic Rivalries: Coke and Pepsi’s past celebrity-fueled rivalry has shifted to an internal battle ([05:37]-[05:50]).
  • “[Now] Coke's King and we've just got Coke Zero versus Diet Coke.” (Madison, [05:37])
• Branding distinction: Many consumers don’t know the precise difference, but ingredients and caffeine content drive some loyalty ([08:02]).
  • “Both drinks are zero calories and sugar free, but Diet Coke has more caffeine in it. Significantly more.” (Rhiannon, [08:02])
• Corporate insight:
  • Madison cites Coke’s own messaging: “Coca Cola zero sugar and Diet Coke attract similar consumer demographics. However, their distinct taste profiles and brand identities result in each brand largely having their own unique, loyal consumer base.” ([08:20])

Memorable Quote

• “Do you know why I love this? Because so much of this sentiment isn't actually based on what it tastes like and is about how it's being positioned to us.”
  — Rhiannon, [09:30]

3. Brand Identity, Gender, & Cultural Adjacency

• Diet Coke’s legacy: Originated in the 1980s, aligning with fashion, supermodels, office culture, and diet/fat-free trends ([11:04]-[13:56]).
  • Madison: “Think peak 90s supermodel. Like, thin was in, smoking was in… for a model to be papped outside of shows with a cigarette in one hand and a Diet Coke in the other.” ([11:04])
  • Rhiannon: “I think Sex in the City. I think early 2000s and it being—again—still having that fashion adjacent alignment." ([12:08])
• The “fridge cigarette” meme: Coke Zero’s viral cultural moment, becoming a metaphorical social ‘fix’—see the “fridge cigarette” TikTok trend ([14:35]).
  • Madison: “When I was in New York with a girlfriend and us going something to take the edge off. I don't have wide enough fingers to—[imitates holding Coke Zero like a cigarette]” ([15:19])
• Brand messaging shifts:
  • Coke Zero’s “healthier alternative” feels less “diet-y” than Diet Coke, catering to modern wellness trends ([16:17]–[16:59]).
  • “Zero feels more palatable...less like I'm making this decision to be skinny and I'm more making this decision to be healthier.” — Rhiannon ([16:43])
• Changing perceptions of ‘diet’:
  • “It’s not, you know, it's a lifestyle change and mindset…The word diet I don't think is warmly received.” — Madison ([16:59])
• Numbers show the trend: Coke Zero’s 2025 growth (4.8%) far outpaces Diet Coke (1.3%) ([17:18]).

4. Marketing, Nostalgia & The Future

• Diet Coke’s marketing origins:
  • Diet Coke launched in 1982, initially focused on taste but succeeded due to its association with “diet” and its fashion industry ties. (Rhiannon referencing Jennifer Simon’s article, [19:35]–[20:16])
• Coca Cola's advantage:
  • “While Diet Coke has undeniably been knocked off by Coke Zero, this is ultimately the best possible case for their parent company…because…no matter where your purse strings go, it's all going to Coke.” — Madison ([20:53])
• Brand strategy concerns:
  • Rhiannon flags the future: “I do wonder…and I do worry if they are nervous about long term,” questioning whether Coke will eventually need to “put all our eggs in Coke Zero's basket” as Diet Coke’s demographic ages ([21:09]-[22:03]).
• Gendered marketing:
  • Coke Zero was launched to appeal to men “who didn’t want to be associated with…the word ‘diet’…But the irony is they've ultimately landed still with a largely female demographic.” — Madison ([23:28])
  • Coke Zero aims for inclusivity but the culture remains largely female-forward in offices and social groups.

5. Pop Culture, Health Trends & The GLP-1 Effect

• GLP-1/Ozempic and shifting health culture:
  • The hosts discuss how the rise of GLP-1 weight-loss drugs, shifting ideas about wellness, and backlash against “anti-fun” health messaging could all impact soda choices ([25:19]-[26:51]).
  • “I just think there is this cultural divide of, like, seeking longevity and…the other half going, yeah, I'd love to live forever, but I'd like to have some fun along the way too.” — Madison ([26:15])
• Coke’s business strategy: Coke’s CFO boasts, “Coke Zero has been on a tear…our best innovation over the last 25 years.” ([27:12])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We're not going to the Grand Final. We're going to the Kylie Minogue concert.”
  — Rhiannon, [01:58]

• “You said it, ‘user,’ like you were a Mac or a Microsoft.”
  — Madison, [04:28]

• “If it's not here, I don't want it. But I found myself falling into the Coke Zero culture because…I imagine it's not dissimilar to, like, in the 80s tradies going for smoko.”
  — Madison, [15:37]

• “Zero feels more palatable. And I think young people are more receptive to messaging that is subliminal. The word ‘diet’ I don't think is warmly received.”
  — Rhiannon/Madison, [16:43]-[16:59]

• “I just thought they got discontinued in like early 2000s, but go off, Louie, keep doing business.”
  — Madison, about vanilla Coke, [24:51]

• “Just because one of your besties might be a DC and you're a CZ gal, hold them dear…My ex work wife. She was a dc, I was a cz.”
  — Madison, [27:16]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:59] – Review of the new Kylie Minogue documentary & her brand status
• [02:06] – Word of the week: Go-to skincare as lifestyle; Goto brand’s evolution
• [03:39] – Introduction of the Coke Zero vs Diet Coke debate
• [04:14] – The intensity of drink loyalty & the Wall Street Journal “civil war” article
• [08:02] – Explaining the differences between Diet Coke and Coke Zero
• [11:04] – Diet Coke’s cultural positioning in fashion, the 90s & 2000s
• [14:35] – The “fridge cigarette” trend & Coke Zero’s modern meme culture
• [16:17] – Branding and language shifts from “diet” to “zero”
• [17:18] – Coke Zero’s market growth vs Diet Coke
• [19:35] – The marketing origins of Diet Coke
• [20:53] – Coke’s double win in the rivalry
• [21:09] – Demographic and aging-out concerns for Diet Coke
• [23:28] – Gender marketing: Coke Zero’s intended and actual audience
• [25:19] – GLP-1, Ozempic, and anti-wellness cultural backlash
• [27:12] – Coke Zero as Coca Cola’s top innovation

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Conclusion

This episode of Style-ish cleverly weaves together the sociocultural, marketing, and personal dimensions of the Coke Zero vs Diet Coke debate, underlining how taste is almost secondary to identity, nostalgia, and viral culture. The hosts, in trademark chatty and inclusive style, unpack why Coke Zero is winning today’s pop culture moment and question what’s next as consumer tastes, health mindsets, and generational loyalties keep shifting.

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To join the conversation or share your drink allegiance, find Style-ish on Instagram at @stylish or email [e-mail].

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Bioderma's new Hydrobio Hydroactive range. If you don't stop, why should your hydration Find the Bioderma Hydrabio range at leading pharmacies and beauty retailers. Hello, welcome to our Friday episode of Stylish. My name is Rhiannon Joyce. You are my wonderful co host, Madison Sullivan Thorpe. How are you, Mancet?

[B]

I'm fantastic. I'm just, like, having a great week. I had my mum's stay over last night and we had, like, ultimate girls night. We watched the Kylie doco. I cooked dinner. Like, it was just really fun.

[A]

Nothing better than reverting back to that mother, daughter, like, childlike state. I always do that with my mum. We, like, do shopping days. I like, hold her hand in public and then we'll go home and watch a movie. Like, I love that time together, girl.

[B]

Things sheet masks all the things. I loved it like. Couldn't have been more cliche cliche if we tried.

[A]

Can you give me a quick review of the Kylie Doko?

[B]

I am loving it so far. You know, Kylie grew up at that time probably a little bit earlier than I kind of remember culturally. Like, I think I kind of came in for Britney, Christina Aguilera. But I think just like, the scope of Kylie as a brand and like, the way that she kind of burst onto the scene and I guess the size of her profile in the uk, I was just like, my God, she's. I forgot how big of a megastar she is.

[A]

Which.

[B]

Shame on me. Shame on me.

[A]

No, no, I think I can understand that because it's kind of come in waves and I think she's had a recent surge and. And she's obviously such an icon in the LGBTQIA community that I think she's had a huge resurgence because she performed at Pride, I think, last year or the year before. Yeah, she had her album drop. She was nominated for a Grammy. So I feel that cultural relevancy piece is just, like, skyrocketed.

[B]

Yeah. And, like, the nostalgia of her is just iconic to me. Like, that is my song requested, quite literally. Every wedding I go to is a Kylie song.

[A]

And also, the only reason I will be asking anyone for tickets to the AFL Grand Final this year is because Kylie's performing. I don't give a fudge who is playing. I will be at that stadium.

[B]

We're not going to the Grand Final. We're going to the Kylie Minogue concert.

[A]

Correct? Correct. Okay, Mads, word of the week. It's your Turn.

[B]

It is my turn. We had a conversation recently, and it totally spurred my interest because I'm seeing them a lot all of a sudden, and that is go to skincare. And I feel like saying go to skincare isn't even right at the moment, because it's almost like go to the lifestyle brand is where I see it now. And it's funny because I feel like they kind of dipped for a while in terms of where I was seeing them and where they were meeting me. And maybe they weren't meeting me because I'm not their customer. And I saw that they launched this sort of nighttime range. There's skincare, body care. It's very much centered around sleep and lifestyle and life stage. And Goto launched in 2014, which. Blink and you'll miss it. Cause if you had have, you know, put a gun to my head, I would have said seven years ago. But the brand's been in market for 12 years. Zoe would have been like roughly 30, 31 at the time.

[A]

Zoe Foster Blake, the founder of Goto,

[B]

thank you very much. My encyclopedia over here. But the brand's now 12 years old, and I think they're really meeting their customer where she is now. Like, they're moving into this sort of perimenopause stage where, you know, your skin changes, your sleep rhythm changes. And I'm loving what they're doing. And look, Zoe is obviously at the epicenter of this brand. I think she's always been the face of it. She's always been the spokesperson and probably very much aligns with who her customer is. And she's spoken very publicly about perimenopause and her experience with it, which probably, you know, helps shed a lot of, like, shame or isolation that women feel in that stage of life. I just, I love what they're doing.

[A]

I couldn't agree more, Mads. All right, what are we talking about today?

[B]

Well, talk about Roman empires and things that divide women. I think all it takes.

[A]

Women, babe. More than women. I think everyone, even aliens, would be divided by this. It is like, seriously, seriously that the chatter online at the moment, it's divisive.

[B]

There's a lot of online chatter. There's a lot of in person chatter. All you need to do is say at 3pm, should we go and get a. To know where people stand. And we are doing it. We are talking Coke Zero versus Diet Coke and the divisiveness and passion that it causes today. Right?

[A]

And there's a lot of it. I cannot believe how Ride or Die people are for their preferred drinks. Or I have to admit up top, I am not a regular soft drink user. I do love a Coke Zero.

[B]

You said it user like you were a Mac or a Microsoft. Like that's kind of similar.

[A]

I think people were equally as passionate about that. But I am very, very, very invested in how passionate other people are. But also from a branding point of view, Coke have got themselves in a little bit of a situation.

[B]

Yeah. And I don't think Coker unhappy about it. But what spurred this whole conversation? I mean this is something. As I said, any Uber eats order among friends or any 3pm office pick me up is discussing this. But what spurred the convo for us was that the Wall Street Journal recently published an article titled the Ice Cold Civil War between Diet Coke and Coke Zero Drinkers. And it got us thinking about building brand loyalty and how one brand has managed to create two very strongly formed opinions and camps. Like people are, I'm one or the other.

[A]

And now they're competing with each other. And not to pull the cart before the horse, but Coke Zero is sitting pretty and perhaps the favourite trial, perhaps getting a little bit more money internally budgets based on their performance.

[B]

I think that's safe to say. And what a cultural shift that's been because in the 80s and the 90s for so long it was Coke versus Pepsi.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And it was very much the world of celebrity endorsements and who was winning and who could get the best sort of pap shots alongside those. And now it feels like Coke's king and we've just got Coke Zero versus Diet Coke.

[A]

A little tangent here for you. The original Civil war, so to speak, was actually between Pepsi and Coca Cola. And I always think back to that original ad. I believe it was Pepsi. It was iconic. It was like in 2001 and it was the vending machine. It was in response to Coca Cola boasting about outselling Pepsi 4 to 1. So it was like the OG clapback ad and started a whole series of them. One thing I really, really want to get into, and it's a bit nitty gritty, is how Coca Cola have designed these tactics or created this rivalry between us.

[B]

We're going to get into that right after a word from today's sponsor. Hold on.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's the fundamental ingredients difference. People will try and tell you that they are the exact same. They are not. And I'm sorry to those people who are listening to this right now, but you are technically wrong from an ingredients point of view. But interestingly from a branding point of view, Mads, they do speak to different customer bases. Talk us through that.

[B]

Yeah, so in the article there was a quote from a Coke spokesperson to the Wall Street Journal article that I mentioned up top. And he said that Coca Cola zero sugar and Diet Coke attract similar consumer demographics. However, their distinct taste profiles and brand identities result in each brand largely having their own unique, loyal consumer bas. It's clearly a passion point for people from professionals to friendship groups alike. One of my favorite TikTok videos is an oldie and a goodie, and it's from Tony and Ryan who have a daily podcast. It's great.

[A]

You should definitely check it out.

[B]

As a side note, but this is so funny and I feel like the perfect like just little insight into the way it's depicted among friendship groups. We're gonna play it for you now. I was just about to offer you a Diet Coke.

[A]

Yeah. And they only have Coke or Coke Zero.

[B]

What's the difference between Coke Zero and Diet Coke? Don't, Connor.

[A]

Don't bring that shit in here.

[D]

Don't.

[B]

We'll be here till Wednesday morning. If Ryan's called Ryan and I'm called Tony and you said, what's the difference? Is it just the names or is it what's in the tin is different as well? I was asking what the difference was. You would. You would just be surprised how different it is. Do you know why I love this?

[A]

Because so much of this sentiment isn't actually based on what it tastes like and is about how it's being positioned to us. Like, it is very much like. Like, how is this product being sold? I really want to know, Mads, first and foremost, who are you loyal to? Coke Zero or Diet Coke?

[B]

Okay, I'm going to say the unpopular thing and I don't want the Internet to hate me. I'm a Coke Zero girl if I'm at a fridge where both are. But I'm not mad if I have a dc.

[A]

Yeah, ok. See, I would say, as a non Coke drinker, I will be honest, I do drink soft drink when I am, like, severely hungover, but I'm a full fat Coke girly. Like, I ain't fucking around with the no sugar stuff. I need the sugar. That's why I'm. That's why I'm there. That's why I go to the source.

[B]

Do you want me to give you a tidbit? Yeah. When I was in la, I was having dinner and Kylie Jenner did walk into the restaurant I was at and sat down two tables over. And Kylie Jenner is also a full fat Coke girl.

[A]

Oh, look at that.

[B]

Look at the tea.

[A]

Actually, I lied. Do you know when else I would drink?

[B]

First of all, I'm a liar.

[A]

Liar. No, I. When I'm overseas, when I'm in Europe or when I'm traveling, I am a Coke Zero girl. But whatever they have, I would drink. Like, I would drink a Diet Coke versus Coke Zero. Like, I'm not really one or the other. So I'm definitely in the minority here in terms of not being loyal. What I want to acknowledge is that Diet Coke and Coke Zero are branded to us quite differently and they've really cemented themselves in different cultural moments. Diet Coke at a time was the drink. I want to know why do you think that they were able to build such strong cultural relevancy when they did.

[B]

I mean, they launched at a time when in the 80s and 90s, it was all about fat free, sugar free, being on a fad diet, Atkins diet. Like, think about the culture at that time. We're talking peak 90s supermodel. Like thin was in, smoking was in. It was like, you know, you were having a cigarette to suppress your appetite, not because it made you look cool or that you thought it was in vogue. And I think, you know, perfect segue into vogue. It was synonymous with the fashion industry. I mean, it was not uncommon for a model to be quoted like Allah Kate Moss saying, nothing takes as good as skinny feels. And for, you know, Runway models to be papped outside of shows with a cigarette in one hand and a Diet Coke in the other. And I don't think that was a mistake because Coca Cola were appointing creative directors of fashion houses to be the creative director on Diet Coke. And I'm talking like this sounds like a Met gala red carpet. It's like Marc Jacobs, Karl Lagerfeld, Jean Paul Gaultier. It was like, honestly, the A list of creative directors. What do you think when you think diet code?

[A]

I think Sex in the City.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

I think early 2000s and it being again, still having that fashion adjacent alignment. But I do see it as like this go to drink for celebrities as well. Yeah, I feel they had really good celebrity endorsement in the early days. They had Whitney Houston, they had Demi Moore. Like, they've had a long standing celebrity endorsement campaign. I also think what's really interesting for me is Diet Coke's original positioning in the 1980s, there was a lot of emphasis on taste, but also the word diet, as you said. So that was very much part of their vernacular. And at that time, it didn't feel like a lot of people were doing that. That feels less relevant now. Yeah.

[B]

Can I also suggest that at that time, perhaps it signaled Cool girl because of all those adjacencies. So you didn't need to be a supermodel or working in fashion or being an actor on Sex and the City or a celebrity. But there was something that it said about you to be having something that was at that time probably a dollar, but it was an adjacent. It's like an easy segue into that world where for a very small accessible fee, you get to feel part of it.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I don't know why as well. I always associate Diet Coke with office culture. And I weirdly remember this ad of three women being in an elevator they're in this, like, bougie New York building. And they're beautiful, by the way. Like, they look like supermodels, but they're cosplaying as, like, normal work people. And there's an issue in one of the elevators or on the floor, and there's like, this super hot. This is, like, old school. So again, there were a lot of, like, stereotypes and tropes. So bear with me here. It was like a super hot, like, electrician or someone who was coming in to fix and the girls are, like, watching him. And it was all, like, very, like, Sexy, like, classic, like 90s 2000s AD, where it was, like, there were, like, always sexual connotations or undertones that, like, didn't need to be there.

[B]

They were in the marketing rooms going, sex sells. It must be sexy.

[A]

But the weird thing is I can't actually remember the product placement in it. I only remember the people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I remember it was Diet Coke and I remember the people, but I can't remember what the product tied to it was.

[B]

You're like, coke and hot, but Coke and culture.

[A]

But this is the thing, like, they've created this environment that I'm thinking about something and a scenario and I'm associating the brand. The product didn't even need to be there.

[B]

Yeah. Which is pretty powerful marketing, to put it that way. So then let's flash forward to now, re. Because as we've said up top, like, Coke Zero, very much in the cultural sort of noise at the moment. What do you think of when you

[A]

think of a Coke Zero fridge cigarette? In the office? We call them zoes. I think it was Shu who came up with that term. I don't know if she was saying it in her friendship group and it just. She said it in the office and it really stuck. And now it's like the thing in the office. They're called zokes.

[B]

I love nothing as much as the different words that exist. Like, we've got cz, Aziza, Aziz, coke, no sugar. When I went to the States, I was saying like, oh, should we have Aziz? And everyone was like, what?

[A]

What?

[B]

I was like, oh, is this an Aussie thing that we say is these

[A]

And Aziza one of the most iconic ones, and where I feel like it's really dominated the meme cycle, particularly on TikTok, is the fridge cigarette. And I did say that up top, but that was actually created by Rachel Renault on TikTok originally and went full viral.

[B]

Yeah. And remember the trend. I remember doing it. It Was about July last year. I remember being in New York with a girlfriend and us going something to take the edge off. I don't have wide enough fingers to

[A]

let me describe what Maddie's doing. She's trying to put her Coke Zero in between her fingers to mimic her holding a cigarette. It just feels like the go to drink that young people want.

[B]

It's funny because, I mean, yes, to a degree, maybe it is an age related thing, but I remember working in a largely female office building and a vending machine got put in over the road from our office building. We had two offices, there were 750 of us. I honestly think at least once a week that vending machine was out of stock and it was maybe three rows full of Coke Zero to like a one row ratio of Diet Coke. And people would turn away like, that is how passionate people are. It's like, if it's not here, I don't want it. But I found myself falling into the Coke Zero culture because I was like, well, if everyone else at 3 o' clock's getting up to go and do something, I imagine it's not dissimilar to like in the 80s tradies going for smoko.

[A]

I do think there is something in the language piece here as well. And the word Diet Coke zero feels more palatable. And I think young people are more receptive to messaging that is subliminal. I think it's really important to acknowledge that at the end of the day, this messaging is still by design to encourage you to take a product or consume a product that is in, I say this in little inverted bunny commas, healthier alternative to, let's say a full sugar Coke.

[B]

Right? Yeah.

[A]

But it just feels less on the nose and less like I'm making this decision to be skinny and I'm more making this decision to be healthier. I maybe it's because Diet Coke had so much of that association with model culture and to your point, the skinny pace.

[B]

Yeah. And also I don't think it's warmly regarded to say you're on a diet now. I think people are like, whoa, what's wrong? Are you okay? Like, how's your mental health? I think if I went to any of my friends and said I'm on a diet, they'd be like, okay, well why are you on that? Like, it's not, you know, it's a lifestyle change and mindset that people are having now. The word diet I don't think is warmly received.

[A]

So it's funny because I actually think this is why Coke Zero is actually dominating Diet Coke when it comes to the numbers as well. Because we love numbers on this podcast. Coke Zero actually grew by 4.8% in the first nine months of 2025, leaving Diet Coke behind, which sat at 1.3% growth. Absolutely. That language play and that broader strategy around it feeling less like diet culture has influenced that.

[B]

Which is so funny because caffeine's never been more popular. Like even take Matcha as an example. It's still a form of caffeine. People are still having like two, three coffees a day. It is surprising when you think about the facts of the fact they're both 0 calories, they're both sugar free, that the higher caffeine is not the one that is more warmly regarded.

[A]

Yeah, I think there's a lot more into this and we can definitely deepen it. But we'll get into how Coke Zero dethroned Diet Coke right after a word from today's sponsor. We talk a lot about hydration in skincare, but realistically, deeply hydrated skin requires so much more than a quick moisturizer in the morning. Our skin is constantly losing moisture throughout the day thanks to temperature changes, exercise, UV exposure and stress. And it's even more noticeable in winter. So take this as your sign to upgrade your skincare to the new Bioderma Hydrobio Hydroactive range. It's a complete routine of micellar powered cleansers, a bouncy serum and ultralight water based moisturizers inspired by K Beauty and promising lifeproof hydration and immediate glow. It's available now at leading pharmacies and beauty retailers. And thank you so much to Bioderma for making this episode of stylish possible.

[B]

Look, we've spoken about dethroning a lot, so let's actually get into it. Ironically, Diet Coke has been dethroned by Coke Zero with very similar consumer behavior going around. And we don't want to get into a history lesson, so to speak, but I do think a few tidbits on the background of kind of how it came to be. And it was ironically, the original disruptor before its little sister came and knocked it off its pedestal. But in 1982, Diet Coke launched and was really revolutionary because it was one of the first drinks marketed around taste, not weight loss, which is ironic given the naming convention. But Diet Coke's greatest marketing achievement was really attaching itself to the word diet, but broadly in the category still focused so heavily on taste.

[A]

Yeah, and this is why I think they were able to really disrupt the market and have mass appeal. I do want to throw in point of recommendation here. When we were researching for this episode, I loved this article and it gave a really, really interesting insight into how the concept of Diet Coke was born and also the original brand campaign that ran with it. So it's called Love Diet Coke. You have my dad to thank for that and was written by Jennifer Simon. So Jennifer Simon's dad was Sergio Zymon and he was the marketing executive who made Diet Coke into the cultural icon in the 80s. So Jennifer obviously had a front row seat to history, but it was a really nice blend of fact, but then also feelings and her own personal anecdote. So if you really want a little bit more of a deep dive, definitely recommend reading that.

[B]

I absolutely love that wreck and I haven't read it, so I definitely will. But I think what's so funny about this division for me is that while Diet Coke has undeniably been knocked off by Coke Zero, this is ultimately the best possible case for their parent company, Coca Cola. Because as we were saying earlier, the debate for such a long time was, are you Coca Cola or are you Pepsi? And now they have honed in their market so well that we are now debating whether your Diet Coke or Coke Zero. And what a beautiful place to be in because guess what, no matter where your purse strings go, it's all going to Coke.

[A]

Yeah, I think right now it's fine. I do wonder and I do worry if they are nervous about long term, how is this going to play out for them as a brand? Because at the end of the day, one market share is getting smaller, one is growing. And, and yes, to your point, it's all kind of going into the same pocket, but it is giving paying Pete, what is it robbing Peter to pay to pay Paul? So, and because this category is also growing as a whole, so to put it into context, I would say the anti soft drink or alternative soft drink category and where we're seeing like Poppy and Bobby and all these drinks that have, you know, no sugar, but also got all the probiotics in it, like this category is getting bigger. Coca Cola really need to back Coke Zero. I actually think they really need to back one. I think at the end of the day, when you have an aging demographic as well, which Diet Coke by design is technically older than the Coke Zero demographic. So we know that even though there are a lot of consumers who are young, Coke Zero has that Gen Z millennial audience locked down. So with that, I think over time, as that demographic starts to age out, are they going to have to reposition their strategy and consider, do we put all our eggs in Coke Zero's basket?

[B]

Yeah. But to challenge that a little bit, I do think so much of what is anchoring us culturally at the moment is a throwback to nostalgia. Like, even if you look at cigarettes at the moment, we're seeing them everywhere. It's like Julie, but Kylie Jenner, Charlie xx. These were things that were very uncool. We've spent 20, 30 years going, these are terribly bad for you. I can't help but wonder, like, does Diet Coke always have a spot? If nostalgia keeps swinging back to certain things, and ultimately it will always be a hallmark of the 80s. And ninet made a really good point

[A]

when we were chatting before Mads about the choice for the Devil Wears Prada to partner with Diet Coke, not Coke Zero. What is your rationale or thinking behind that?

[B]

That they are happy for the pie to be across the two, but they wouldn't mind Diet Coke having a big slice.

[A]

And also that original synergy and to your point, the alignment with fashion, strategically, it made more sense. It's like, hey, that relationship with fashion was already there. Let's just strengthen that out even more instead of trying to, like, handball it to one of the others.

[B]

And when that first Devil Wears Prada came out, that was peak Diet Coke culture. Coke 0 was like 5 years old.

[A]

Let's bird's eye the gender strategy, because we know that Diet Coke went hard at women. Like, originally, it was all about targeting everyone. But then over the years, they really started to have a female focus. What's your take on how Coke Zero are trying to target everyone? Or do you feel like they're really trying to go in on a specific gender?

[B]

Well, it was funny because I was so fascinated by this. That Diet Coke I didn't realize was so anchored in femininity. I just assumed that it was anchored in diet culture and it had that synergy with fashion and that sort of 90s lifestyle. But the whole reason they actually launched Coke Zero was to try and create a sub segment that appealed to males who didn't want to be associated with the word diet or something that had culturally become so feminine. And the irony is they've ultimately landed still with a largely female demographic on a Coke Zero.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And while it was a feeling, I do also have fact to back it up. But the Wall Street Journal article was saying it was a two prong approach. It was to target both men. And I'm paraphrasing here. But also to have the exact same mouthfeel of a Coke. And so that's what a lot of people argue is that a Coke Zero gives you all of the joy of having a full sugar Coke. It was funny that that was like what they were targeting when the diet was very much, we're gonna make it T. Mm. Do you think they've landed with getting the male audience? Like, when you think about the men that, you know, would they get a Coke Zero over a Diet Coke?

[A]

No. So, Louis, my one person sample size is like, not a good reference because he is similar to you. Like, he will kind of flip between them, but he also throws in the mix. And this is rogue. And I know it's rogue. He loves a vanilla Coke, but they've also got a vanilla Coke, no sugar that he's partial to. So he's really complicating this for you.

[B]

I just thought they got discontinued in like early 2000s, but go off, Louie, keep doing business.

[A]

I will say, more broadly speaking speaking that Coke Zero does feel like the drink that people are ordering at the restaurant. And there's like zero shame attached to it. It feels like whether I'm with the girls or I'm with family, even my parents, like everyone is starting to gravitate towards that product. So over time and long term, I think that Coke Zero is just going to continue to get stronger and stronger and that share is just going to get bigger and bigger.

[B]

And there is one last element I want to talk about, and that is the GLP1 phenomenon that we have seen and the rise of what is commonly referred to as Ozempic, but is essentially weight loss peptides. And I know that the peptide episode is one of our most successful. It's clearly in everyone else's feeds and conversations as much as it was in our own. I'm intrigued to see how carbonated beverages as a whole work when they are strongly deterred from when you are on a GLP1 peptide. If you don't know what a GLP1 is, it's commonly referred to as Ozempic.

[A]

Ozempic, a weight loss drug. Basically. The wellness trend is also not going away. I do think there is a bit of a culture, not a culture shift. It's almost like a fight back in a way where the cigarettes and the diet Cokes are still kind of creeping through because people are trying to be more. Not anti wellness, but I think trying to cut through the crap a little. Like we're getting hit with a lot when it comes to wellness. And I think people are just reverting

[B]

back, they're fighting back. Like, I think a lot about in the last week, the Stephen Bartlett piece where he spoke about how he just thinks about how three glasses of wine, like, really ruined his ability. And there's been a real backlash online of people being like, I'm okay having three glasses of wine because the greatest currency I'm looking to achieve is not money. Sometimes it's fun, it's enjoyment, it's connection, it's community. And it's not saying that you have to go and have, you know, a whole bottle of wine and be blackout drunk. But I just think there is this cultural divide of, like, seeking longevity and the other half going, yeah, I'd love to live forever, but I'd like to have some fun along the way too.

[A]

Yeah, I want to enjoy my life. I'm so glad you brought that reference up. Coca Cola are really backing this category. Their cfo, John Murphy said, we're seeing a big uptick in low calorie. Zero calorie. Coca Cola Coke Zero has been on a tear. I love that. An absolute tear, really, for some time now. It's by far, in a way, our best innovation, I'd say over the last 25 years.

[B]

They deserve to give themselves the flowers for that innovation.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And you know what? I think that's a perfect place to stop and remember. Just because one of your besties might be a DC and you're a CZ gal, hold them dear. That's okay. We're allowed to be a bit different. I think that very strongly about my ex work wife. She was a dc, I was a cz.

[A]

What about the vanilla Coke drinkers out there?

[B]

Do you know what, Louis? Love you too, man. I guess you're okay as long as it's in the CZ family.

[A]

Guys, that's all we have time for today. Our next next Stylish episode will drop in your feed on Wednesday. Feel free to email style-ishameless media.com or sign into our DMs over at our new handle. Have you seen our new handle? I did.

[B]

And I announced this on Wednesday's episode. We're just Stylish now.

[A]

We're at Stylish now. We're bigger than the podcast. We've got a lot going on.

[B]

We're busy.

[A]

We're busy. So keep chatting to us there. We'd love to hear from you. Big thanks to our shows production team, head of podcast, Lucy Hunt, Senior podcast producer Kate Emmerburg. And thank you, my lovely Maddie for joining me and chatting all things Diet Coke vs Coke 0.

[B]

Can't wait to go to the fridge now I know there's extra CZs.

[A]

It's like a reward. Bye, guys.

[B]

God, I love that sound.

[A]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

[D]

Hello, it's Ruby here, the host of Shameless Media's interview show, Inherited. New interviews drop every single Tuesday, and I wanted to remind you about the special life lessons episode with my Nana Kay. A few weeks ago, we sat down in Perth together and unpacked the last 80 years of her life. It's a really interesting story. The Inherited team are actually going to share their thoughts thoughts about this episode. First up is Annabel Lee.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

I adore this episode.

[B]

It's got to be one of my most favorite episodes of Inherited because obviously

[A]

you guys have such a close special bond.

[B]

Nana K has such a fascinating story

[A]

that I did know about, but not this much.

[B]

Also, just one last thing.

[A]

I really love. This is kind of random, but I really love how many times Nana K said your name. It was just so special. She said a lot. Filled with so much love. And I just adored this episode in

[C]

Nana K. I love this episode so much. As someone who has lost all of their grandparents, I actually lost them by the age of 11. I've never been able to have a conversation with them as an adult, so I don't know what they were like. And it was so cool to see Rubes now in her 30s, talking to her grandma about what she was like in her 30s and asking questions that I don't think that you can ask in normal family circumstances. So it was just a fascinating conversation. I cried 10 minutes in. I wish I could have a line with her.

[B]

Ruby's Nana is just so thoughtful, reflective, and has a emotional depth to her that I think a lot of grandparents probably can't access. It's like it's that reflective chat over a lifetime that you just really wish you could go that deep with your grandparents.

[A]

So, yeah, it made me cry so

[D]

much to listen to this conversation in full with my Nana K. Just search Inherited on your favorite podcast app and Inherited interviews drop every single Tuesday. So we'll see you then.