The one item we’re investing in this winter

Summary

Style-ish – Episode Summary

Podcast: Style-ish by Shameless Media
Episode: The one item we’re investing in this winter
Date: April 7, 2026
Hosts: Madison Sullivan Thorpe, Rhiannon Joyce, Joanna Fleming

---

Episode Overview

This episode brings together hosts Madison Sullivan Thorpe, Rhiannon Joyce, and Joanna Fleming to discuss key topics in Australian fashion, lifestyle, and beauty. The main segments include:

• The surprising movement of Aussie stationery brands into fashion and beauty
• The one winter wardrobe item each host is investing in
• Listener Q&A: How to get a skincare-reluctant boyfriend on board

The episode brims with nostalgia, hot takes, practical style advice, and expert skincare tips, maintaining its chatty, relatable yet informed tone throughout.

---

Episode Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Cozy Banter & Weekly Swaps (00:30–06:13)

- Seasonal Treats & Hot Cross Buns:
A lighthearted debate on hot cross buns and whether they deserve year-round shelf space kicks things off before jumping into style content.

- Weekly Swaps:

• Madison: Announces enthusiasm for Decjuba (referred to as "decuba"), praising CEO Audrey Narnia's transformative leadership and observing the brand’s "sleeping giant" comeback.

  “I feel like the giant has been reawoken and I’m really liking just watching it as an observer in this space.” – Madison (02:05)

• Joanna: Recommends ceramic artist Cosa Ceramica for unique, collectible art pieces – ideal for special gifting.
• Rhiannon: Shares her love for the MAC Cosmetics lip pencil in Cork, especially for a ‘90s ombre lip look.

  “She did this really gorgeous ombre look and then just went over the top with a gloss... I was obsessed with this look.” – Rhiannon (05:24–05:40)

(Annika, a regular contributor, is mentioned as away on parental leave.)

---

2. Why Are Stationery Brands Entering Fashion & Beauty? (07:15–20:04)

The Smiggle Case Study

• Background: Smiggle, beloved for its bright and sensory stationery for tweens, is now planning to move into beauty products (lip gloss, facial cream, etc.) as a strategy to maintain relevance and growth among its core demographic (ages 6–12).
• Hosts’ Reactions: Initial surprise, then acceptance as they remember childhood obsessions with products like Lip Smackers and Body Shop goodies.

  “I remember being, you know, probably 10 and being obsessed with Lip Smackers and the Body Shop and all of those... So we had our own version of this.” – Joanna (11:04)

• Concerns:
  • Age-appropriateness (no active/harsh skincare ingredients for kids!)
  • The balance between joyful collectibility and unhealthy consumerism
• Smart Strategies:
  • Leveraging the gift market (birthday parties)
  • Emphasizing collectibility and sensory experiences (scents, textures)
  • Potential for experiential retail (the “Smiggle Party”/Build-a-Bear model)

The Kikki K Example

• Brand Evolution: Kikki K, with new creative director Lisa Gorman, moves into fashion and travel with cohesive, Scandi-inspired designs.
• Why It Works: The extension feels authentic due to consistent design language and lifestyle sensibility.

  “If I didn’t know Kiki K before, I would assume that this all was from inception... It feels very, very intentional.” – Joanna (16:08, 16:30)

Takeaways

• Strategic Collabs?
  Madison suggests Smiggle could have benefitted by initially collaborating with beloved kid-friendly beauty brands, though Rhiannon notes:

  “If this is a serious extension...I do think they have to establish it on their own and then they can go into collaborations.” (18:25)

• Licensing & Expansion:
  Discuss the role of licensing (e.g., Smiggle’s Minecraft, Peter Alexander’s Disney collabs) in brand growth and maintaining consumer interest.

---

3. The One Winter Investment Item (20:43–26:50)

Each host picks the single wardrobe hero they’re investing in for the Australian winter:

• Rhiannon: A funnel-neck jacket (“My love for the funnel neck jacket is at an all-time high—this winter, they’re everywhere and I’m here for it.” – Rhiannon, 21:15)
  • Her luxe pick: Camilla and Marc (sold out)
  • Budget alternative: Uniqlo funnel neck (praised for versatility)
• Madison:
  A short, woollen jacket with a detachable scarf, inspired by the original Totême scarf jacket.

  “There’s something quite European and chic about the scarf thrown over the shoulder and like a beautiful short coat.” – Madison (23:18)

• Joanna:
  Flat, knee-high boots in chocolate suede (riding boots).

  “I have an issue with only having heeled boots and... there are a lot of occasions where it calls for a flat.” – Joanna (23:52)

  • Shout-outs: Tony Bianco’s Haze, COS, Steve Madden “Resonate.”

Bonus Picks

• Rhiannon: Detachable faux fur collars and cuffs (via Etsy) for retro-glam layering ("At the moment, my obsession is detachable faux fur collars and cuffs..." – 26:02)

---

4. Listener Q&A: Getting Boyfriends into Skincare (26:50–36:07)

Caitlin asks:

“How in the world did you get Adrian into doing a skincare routine or even testing your products?”

Joanna’s Origin Story

• Their entire relationship started with a skincare prompt on Hinge!
• Her most effective technique: Hands-on service

  “He is willing to sit on the edge of the bath each night and I just put his skincare on him.” – Joanna (27:46)

• Challenges: Morning application (especially sunscreen) can slip.
• Motivation: “I have openly said, we will get divorced if he gets sunburned.” (28:21)

Strategies for Reluctant Partners

• Make it easy: Simple routines, two-in-one (moisturizer + sunscreen) products
• Highlight functional and ‘masculine’ elements (packaging, neutral scents)
• Be pragmatic about cost (“There is a big reason, Joe!” – Rhiannon, referencing sharing premium products, 35:33)
• Recognize they’re often reactive, not proactive; skin changes or crises usually trigger interest.

Skincare 101 for Beginners

• Gentle cleanser (e.g., CeraVe, tailored to skin type)
• Lightweight moisturizer (CeraVe or Innisfree)
• No actives without daily sunscreen (“...we are not fucking with actives until we have a sunscreen that is being used daily, it is not happening.” – Joanna, 31:36)

Notable Insights

• Men are just as swayed by packaging/branding as women—neutral/clinical cues resonate
• Initiate the habit during a new relationship phase or post-skin concern
• Sharing basic products is fine if skin types are similar

---

Memorable Quotes and Fun Moments

• “It was a euphoric feeling. I don’t know if I’ve matched in adulthood.” – Madison, on the joys of shopping at Smiggle as a tween (08:06)
• “No issue whatsoever. The earlier the better. Year-round petition. I’m starting it.” – Madison, on hot cross buns (01:04)
• “If you ask us, style is so much more than your outfit. It’s your accessories, your hair and makeup, and most definitely your scent.” – Joanna (20:04)
• “They’re reactive, not proactive.” – Rhiannon, about men and skincare (33:09)
• “We are all bought in on this trajectory of consumption. It feels like it’s just happening younger and younger.” – Rhiannon (14:36)
• “He does have to do his own in the morning, which is sometimes where the sunscreen slips off.” – Joanna (28:24)
• “If a product looks clinically like it’s going to do something...” – Rhiannon, on packaging influence (33:45)

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:30 – Host introductions and hot cross buns debate
• 01:51 – Weekly “swaps” (recommendations)
• 07:15 – Australian stationery brands moving into beauty/fashion: Smiggle & Kikki K
• 20:43 – The one wardrobe item for winter: picks from each host
• 26:50 – Listener Q&A: How to get your boyfriend into skincare
• 36:07 – Episode wrap, shout-outs

---

Takeaway

This episode is essential listening for style-obsessed listeners curious about retail trends, the intersection of childhood nostalgia and adult consumption, and practical winter wardrobe updates. Its chatty and accessible format is laced with expert advice—especially on skincare—and nostalgia for iconic Aussie brands. If you’re after winter style inspiration or need backup convincing your partner to use SPF, look no further.

Transcript

[Host 1]

Shameless media.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

This episode of Stylish is brought to you by The Devil Wears Prada 2. Miranda, Andy, Emily and Nigel return to the sleek office of Runway magazine from April 30th. Only in cinemas.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, lifestyle, brand and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe. My co hosts today are Rhiannon Joyce and Joanna Fleming.

[Host 2]

Hello.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Happy Wednesday.

[Joanna Fleming]

Happy Wednesday. Are we sad that hot cross buns will be leaving the shelves soon?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I've been having like three or four a week. We are so close to Baker Blue and it is amazing. I just go down in the afternoon, have a little sweetie treaty. I buy the hot cross bun, I buy a little thing of butter and I toast it and stick it in and eat it like a sandwich.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It sounds delicious.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Unreal.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I just absolutely love hot cross buns. In fact, I'm not about being angry if they're rolled out on the 26th of December. I'm like, what's not to love about that little delicious baked good?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

No issue whatsoever.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No, the earlier the better. You know what year round petition I'm starting it.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, but then they lose their sparkle a little bit because they're just available all the time.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Is it not just a glorified raisin toast?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes, but it does have the little cross on the top.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, they're adorable.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Take the cross off. Let's just call it a little hot bun.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

A little hot bun.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No cross.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

All right, guys. Today we're discussing why Australian stationery brands are trying to break into fashion and beauty. The one item we're each introducing to our wardrobes this winter. Because it's fast approaching. It's quite scary, actually. And we're answering, and opinions, please, about getting boyfriends into skincare. Rest assured that Joe has come with the answers to all of your problems and can help you work out how to get your boyfriend or your partner into skincare. But first, what are we swapping in?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm swapping in a brand today, and it's a brand that, like, this isn't a new brand to anyone, but maybe a brand that, like, we've all been sleeping on for a little while and it's to Cuba. So I don't think that I have stepped foot in a decuba or thought about decuba for maybe 10 years. And I feel like in the last six months I have been seeing it slowly but surely kind of reemerging into algorithms on creators that I'm following. A friend of mine was invited to one of their events and mentioned that she'd met the new CEO. I think sometimes it's really easy to forget how brands kind of come in and out of, you know, the realm or, you know, the conversation, especially in Australian fashion. I think a lot of the time people go, oh, it's like whoever's working in social media or whoever the designer is. But really it's all of those parts coming together. And I don't think it's a coincidence that they've had a new CEO start in the last sort of 18 months. Cause that's about how long it takes for Wheels in Motion to be sort of showing. Anyway, her name is Audrey Narnia and she is absolutely impressive. I have no other words. She has been with the business, I think for 17 or 18 years now. She, she's held a host of roles from like operations to commercial. Her vision for the brand is so clear. And I'm loving kind of watching, I call it Sleeping Giants or Sleeping Beauties. When brands have all the right things right. Like decuba's a long standing household name. They've got great bricks and mortar presence. But I kind of felt like just like was sleeping a little bit. I feel like the giant has been reawoken and I'm really liking just watching it as an observer in this space.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I've seen heaps of TikTok ads lately and I actually bought their cropped trench, which I mentioned a couple of weeks ago on the pod. And I'm actually wearing a decuber T shirt today.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

There you go. There you go. Jo, what are you swapping in?

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm actually swapping in a ceramicist randomly.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I love an account swap.

[Joanna Fleming]

I actually can't remember how I came across this artist, but she's a ceramicist who is based in the US she makes these ceramic calla lilies. So you know the ones that kind of have like a cone shape.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

They're beautiful. Really popular at the moment for weddings. A lot of people using them as their bouquet.

[Joanna Fleming]

Exactly. And she does them with either a hole in them so you can hang them, or she does these like rounded versions that you can put on a surface.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Beautiful.

[Joanna Fleming]

So you can kind of lay it out as a piece of art.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It looks like an installation.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, they're beautiful. I believe she does drops of these. And she has, I think a residency in like New York at some point. I absolutely love following her page. Cosa Ceramica. If you want to go and have a look at her page and admire

[Rhiannon Joyce]

her work, I'll definitely be doing that. I love following people who Work in ceramics or that's their passion. It's so cathartic.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, she does a lot of other things as well, like keepsakes and things like that that you could purchase. Like, she such a nice wedding gift idea.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That is a great wedding gift idea.

[Joanna Fleming]

So she does little, like, mugs with messages on them. She does what looks like a little letter, but it's ceramics and it's got writing on it. It's so beautiful. She does so many, like, gorgeous pieces.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay, we'll make sure we link her account in the show notes, even if they're sold out. I'll definitely be following Riri.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

What have you got for me?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I've got a lip product.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So following Maddie's lip products last week, I've decided to include my own. I recently had my makeup done for an event. And the lovely makeup artist at Mecca. Obviously you can redeem product when you purchase the experience. I redeemed the lip product that she used on me, which I think is such an easy sell for them. Yeah. The lip combo is always an easy get.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's the easiest get, the easiest get. And I was gotten hook liner, hook, line, and sinker. You were brought in.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So the lip liner is the Mac Cosmetics lip pencil shade in cork, and it's a very, very dark brown. And what I love that she did was an ombre style on me. So very 90s coated, as the lovely lady described to me. I'm not even going to pretend like that was my own, you know, bit vision. But what she did was actually lined my lips on the outer and then blended them in from the corners. So it gave this really gorgeous ombre look and then just went over the top with a gloss. So that meant I could use one that I already had at home. I didn't have to buy another one. I was obsessed with this look. It also gave my lips a more fuller. Yeah. And I'm addicted.

[Joanna Fleming]

Ri has surprised me in the last few weeks. She'll like, either do a mascara or she'll do blush or she'll do something. And every week I've walked in being like, oh, what's different? Something's different and I'm liking it. And she'll be like, I've got mascara on.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You never know what you're gonna get with me. Yeah, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Keep us guessing. Okay. We don't have a remote swap from Annika because she is just enjoying her time with sweet baby Poppy. But we will have some swaps with her from next week onwards. Next, we're discussing why Australian stationery brands are moving into beauty and fashion. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

When news dropped that the devil wears Prada 2 was coming out this year, you can only imagine the stylish group chat. We're swapping movie quotes, reviving our favorite looks, and making plans to see it the week of. Well, the time has almost come because the Devil wears Prada 2 officially lands in cinemas on April 30. Honestly, it already feels like the social event of the year. Maybe because it's been 20 years since the original defined our generation. In the sequel, the film reunites the OG cast, the iconic Meryl Streep, Anne Hathaway, Emily Blunt and Stanley Tucci, and an all new lineup of characters as they return to the sleek office of Runway magazine in New York City. We are so in and we know you will be too. Gather your girlfriends and catch it in Cinema from April 30. A huge thank you to the Devil Wears Prada too, for making this episode

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

of stylish possible Australian stationery brands are moving into fashion and beauty.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Did we think this? When I saw the headline, I went, oh. But now that I've sat with it and thought about it, it's kind of convincing. But Mads, tell us, tell us what's going on.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I'm with you. Once I marinated so a headline from the afr, otherwise more commonly known as the Australian Financial Review, caught our attention last week when we dropped it into our stylish chat. And the title was smeagol Bets on Beauty to Spark Growth Turnaround. Now, if you're not from Australia, Smiggle is a stationary brand that was founded in Melbourne in 2003. And look, it is known for its bright, colorful products, but it's probably known for the chokehold that it had on every millennial as a small tween.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, I remember the pencil case the most. It wasn't even the actual pencils. It was like it had like 10 zippers or something. And kids would just walk past with all different colors. They were addicted to them.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I just remember going in there and like, it's the way that I feel when I go to a KFC drive through as an adult with free will. It's sheer excitement. I'm just tickled pink. Like, I'd go in to buy gifts for friends, like parties, and I'd be like, oh, should I get the purple or the green? Like, it was a euphoric feeling. I don't know. I've matched in adulthood.

[Joanna Fleming]

I think someone in the stylish team might have said Smiggle was banned at their school.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, Georgie said. Georgie, who's in my team partnerships team, said it was banned at her school because people were getting so obsessed with it. I also bet there was like some sort of stealing or theft going on there.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, that's an assumed piece of information,

[Rhiannon Joyce]

but it was giving that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I love that you're assuming information is 11 year old thief.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I feel like it could happen.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Look, it was hugely popular in the 2010s and crept into the early 2020s. In particular, in 2019, it hit its peak store count. It had more than 350 stores across Australia, New Zealand and the UK. When we kind of compare that to another retail giant, let's take Mecca, for example, we're kind of sitting at like 110 stores in Australia and New Zealand. Just to kind of put that wild into the scheme of how big this got. It had its highest ever sales year in 2023. So safe to say that it wasn't just at a fever pitch in our lives at that time. It was many years after. According to the afr, though, sales at Smiggle have been under pressure because of competition from rivals such as Kmart and its Anko label, and as households spend less as a result of cost of living pressures. Billionaire businessman Solomon Liu, who owns Premier Investments, which owns Smiggle, told the publication that Smiggles plans to sell beauty items like facial cream, lip gloss, as well as more products for boys. He described it as an add on to our business, not our staple business. It's like adding charms to a backpack. He also told the publication that a review of Smeagol found the brand needs to focus on children aged 6 to 12 and innovate with new marketing, visual merchandising and beauty products. First, I want to start with the 6 to 12, because I think that's probably where it stood out to me in reading the article. And at first I found it personally quite jarring, but then I remembered how old I was when Snooze Miggle had a chokehold on me. How did you both feel reading the article? Initially, I felt a little bit confused

[Rhiannon Joyce]

at the start and I said this up top, but mostly because is beauty a natural extension?

[Joanna Fleming]

No.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Does it make sense now that they've raised the point around it being very sensory led and, you know, thinking about all the pencils and pens and the rubbers that would smell certain flavors and stuff, it does feel like, oh, okay, I get it. Like there's some sensory connection here. The 6 to 12 pace is interesting for me though, around going into beauty because we did do an episode discussing Shay Mitchell going into this category and that was a similar age. I actually think it might have been even younger.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That she was targeting. But it seems to be a bit of a trend at the moment where brands are really trying to connect with consumer as young as possible so that they can grow with them. What did you think, Jo?

[Joanna Fleming]

I initially was also like, oh, this, I don't know about this with the age group. But then I kind of cast my mind back. I'm like, I remember being, you know, probably 10 and being obsessed with Lip Smackers and the Body Shop and all of those. You remember that rhyme impulse, impulse. So we had our own version of this. I think it's very easy to forget that because of all the talk of Sephora kids and like they want to get into actives and things like that. But I think there is a way to play in the children's beauty space. In and out.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

In a non offensive way.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, in a non offensive way. In a way that feels age appropriate. So I think if they lean into the, you know, fragranced lip glosses and body balms and things like that, I can see where it would fit. I would hate to see an aha cleanser.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh God.

[Joanna Fleming]

Being solid Smiggle, Please don't do that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think one brand that does this really well that I've always felt really comfortable taking and my litmus test is always, am I comfortable taking my niece and nephew in there? They're seven and they're 11. And you know, in the last few years have I been comfortable them being in that space. All kinds is one that really stands out to me that I am comfortable them being in that store. It feels age appropriate for them. It feels joyful and sensorial. I don't feel like I'm appropriating behavior or products. And so I would imagine Smiggler seeing all kinds do incredibly well alongside, you know, the products that kids should not be playing with, like the likes of Drunk Elephant and Gisu and things like that that probably a 10 year old doesn't need.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

There's also this element of collectibles. I think back to when I was younger and it was always about having things in mass, which. Thank you, consumerism thinking I need 12 different colors of the same pencil that all smell different. But it was that it was trying to build out a collection of these products. And I think that's something that Smiggle has historically always done. As well. So many children have the same product in various shades. It's not about having one, it's about having the full set. So I'm really curious to see how that translates to the beauty category.

[Joanna Fleming]

I also think a lot of their business will be around gifting as well. Like children's birthday parties. You know, 10 year old girls going to a party and getting something like they might be tempted to go to a mecca. But I think the Smiggle feels a bit more age appropriate and is maybe there's a gifting piece there that feels

[Rhiannon Joyce]

like a missed opportunity by them. I'm thinking about the whole build a bear experience and I could be speaking out of school here and perhaps this already exists. But if they're so strong in bricks and mortars, how good would it be to have a Smiggle party and you go to a sneaker and you create that experience for children and then you take your products home. There could be some personalization element to it or you get a gift card upon leaving, like there's something there.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I love that idea because it is experiential. And I think a lot of the time, one thing that I've kind of really grappled with over the last probably two years of us, you know, really intensely having these conversations how we feel about kids being marketed to and how they experience things. Ultimately kids have the same consumer behavior as us. What they take to school says something about them. You know, collectability matters to them. You know, it's the same reason most girls are buying two road pocket blushes or two lip peptides. And I don't say that from the ivory tower. I am said girl. I'm like, oh, I want that one and I want that one. And I want to try that lip liner that you've just told me about and I want to try that. This is not a unique experience. It's not us and them having this different behavior. I think it just shows up differently. Key fundamental parties. It's our money and we are an informed consumer. And a lot of the time they're uninformed that they're being targeted at or that, you know, consumerism is alive and well when they're in that store and being upsold.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. How I would describe it is that we are all bought in on this trajectory of consumption. It feels like it's just happening younger and younger.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I do want to talk about another brand who is also is playing in a similar space that has gone into a different category. So another iconic Melbourne founded stationary brand, Kiki K, they've actually made a move into fashion. And Lisa Gorman, who is the founder and former creative director of Australian fashion label Gorman actually became Kiki K's creative director in 2023. This was really interesting because Kiki K as a brand I would say was the adult version of Smiggle. I remember going to university and you know, being like I'm going to Kikki K, I'm getting all my stationary, particularly that New Year New Me energy, very much leaning into it. It was a very clean esthetic but it was literally Smiggle for adults.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like just goes to show there is no unique lived experiences there. Like I used to do the exact same thing.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I have this image that I've actually included in my notes because when I saw this on the Kiki K website and I'm going to talk about what I'm looking at right now because I think it speaks really nicely to my point earlier around the collectibles piece for face value, you would think that Kiki K going into fashion wouldn't make sense. But the image that I'm looking at, there's a beautiful girl, she's got a lunchbox, a drink bottle holder, she's got a travel diary, she's got a matching bag. She's then got her socks and her outfit all in a really similar color code and esthetic. And when I look at that, what I see is a one stop shop for someone who was really invested into that look. And when I went on Kiki K's website I was pleasantly surprised how much at all looked very cohesive.

[Joanna Fleming]

I agree fully. And I thought to myself, if I didn't know Kiki K before, I would assume that this all was from inception, like that this was not a later addition to the brand because the themes all feel very familiar. It's very scandi inspired. I didn't look at it and go, oh, this feels out of place. I felt like it just all really was cohesive.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

As you said, super intentional. And also what I found really interesting when they first announced their launch with Lisa Gorman, the category was travel, of course. And at the time Lisa actually said to rag traders, she said there were two key reasons why she wanted to push the brand into travel. The first was luggage. Today is quite boring, she noted after researching baggage carousels during the ideation phase. And the second is that at the time when this was reported in 2025, the interest in travel was rising in Australia and Sydney airport had recorded its strongest quarterly passenger traffic since 2019. In the final quarter of 2024, they had over 11 million passengers passing through all its terminals in Q4, 2024. So that was up 5% in Q4, 2023.

[Joanna Fleming]

Do we also think they were looking at brands like July?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Absolutely. But think about it. That One Stop shop, you've got your travel journal, you've got your really cool suitcase, you've got all the little bits and bobs, your passport holder, all of those things that you would shop at Kiki K, it feels very, very intentional.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So then my question to you both is, do you think that this extension of Smiggle makes sense? Because in contrast, my initial thoughts are Kiki K did skew older and it, you know, did have things that were a little more lifestyle led. So there were meal planners and weekly planners and things like that. It wasn't just like you're going in for a glitter pen and a diary.

[Joanna Fleming]

I think if the beauty element is done correctly, it will go well. Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

If I can see a really strong correlation to their existing offering in the context of it being a collectible and it being a full set, I feel it would make a lot of sense. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I would have loved to have seen them do this with a collaboration to begin. And I think that, you know, leaning into something that kids were really loving, like whether that be laneige or whether that be Lip Smacker or something like that that you're kind of piggybacking now, I know that kids aren't using Lip Smackers anymore, long may they rest. But it kind of piggybacking on the success of someone else, like maybe a gem would have been the perfect one for them to be piggybacking.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

My only criticism of that, if I may go for it, is that feels like a flash in the pan. If this is a serious extension that they're wanting to do, I do think they have to establish it on their own and then they can go into collaborations. Because do you know who did that really well? Frank Green.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

They really had their set codes, they had their set products and then over time they've lent into collaborations. They've collaborated with some huge brands like Disney.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And the fact that the product identity and how strong and how much, you know, they had a chokehold on the tweens. You know, talking about that trajectory of consumerism. I've never seen so many Frank Green bottles in my life than at my local netball courts. They are everywhere. All the kids have them in all different colors. Talk about the trajectory of consumerism. That's the next phase.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, honestly, it's like There's. You can't stop at one.

[Joanna Fleming]

I wouldn't be surprised if we see some licensing stuff from Smiggle, because they already have, like, Minecraft stuff. I think they might have recently had, like, Lilo and Stitch stuff. So they clearly have these collaborations already. So I think that's only a natural trajectory for them.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I think it's also really important to add that the company also owns Peter Alexander, who play heavily in the licensing space.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I have firsthand experience in that licensing space. So when I was working at Vegemite, we had the collaboration with Peter Alexander, which they still do annually, and obviously I can't go into the details of whether that was successful or not, but what I would say is it's still going, so I'll let you decide how successful you think it is. But licensing is very much the backbone, I would say, of Peter Alexander. I would say we see four to six collaborations with the likes of Disney and Pixar and Universal. You know, we've had Shrek, we've had Lilo and Stitch, we've had the wizard of Oz, we've had Star wars, we've had Harry Potter. You name it, it's on there.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Next, we'll be discussing the one item we each want to introduce into our wardrobe this winter. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. If you ask us, style is so much more than your outfit. It's your accessories, your hair and makeup, and most definitely your scent. If you're still looking for your signature, Mija offers the most beautiful fragrances from the biggest brands in the world. There's truly something for every taste, like Scandal Elixir by Jean Paul Gaultier, with two bold new scents for him and her. Or the new YSL Berry Crush infused with juicy raspberries. Meet your next signature scent in store and online at Maya. And a huge thank you to Maya for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[Joanna Fleming]

As you said at the top of this episode, winter is very, very fast approaching and I feel like these cold, icy mornings are just a matter of, like, they're a stone's throw away. I feel I'm starting to get up in the morning and I'm, like, noticing there's a little bit of, like, condensation on the car. So we wanted to talk about the one item that we each want to introduce to our wardrobes this winter, and we could only choose one. So this was quite a hard decision. All three of us deliberated over this. So let's kick this off. What is your must Buy winter item. Rhiannon. Joyce, do you want to start?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

My love for the funnel neck jacket is at an all time high this winter. They're everywhere and I'm here for it. Yeah, I've been very committed to finding one that is of high quality and I did. So the one I actually purchased for this winter is from Camilla and Mark, but it is sold out. So I've been on the hunt for a more cost effective swap in for you guys. So you've got something that is readily available and it's the Uniqlo funnel neck. Mad. So this is the one that you own. I think three of the girls in the office have it. It is on high rotation for a reason. It is so, so versatile.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So versatile. There's an incredible Melbourne creator. Her name's for Trace. We'll put her Instagram in the show notes. But she wore it, I think it was to Effie Cats fashion show with this like incredible slip skirt and love. So expensive. You would have thought it was infamous Jacquemore. But honestly, $60. I wear mine on my dog walk so I'm definitely not being as sexy as it could be. But also have worn it with jeans. Out for a drink with the girls in a little pair of great.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

What's yours, Mads?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Okay, so the one thing that much like you, Ray, a couple of years ago I realized that my in winter I have very much. I'm a formula dresser. So outerwear is really important to me in winter because I think that's kind of the differentiator of my outfit. So each winter I will sort of look to my wardrobe and go like, what's one outerwear piece I think is missing? So last year it was like, okay, I don't have a great textured wool coat and buying wool Australian made coats is really important to me. I find that's where I get a lot of the quality. So I've previously bought a Friends with Frank coat. They make all of their coats here in Melbourne. Vic and woods also do a lot of Australian made coats and so this year though I was kind of looking at my wardrobe the other day with the frosting on the car, realizing winter is coming.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Game of Thrones reference.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, yeah. For those who might have missed it, definitely recommend. But for me I'm like, I think I'm missing a shorter jacket in a wool, not so much pea coat, a little bit more fitted. But I love the ones that are very much inspired by the original Totem scarf jacket. But I'm liking that there's a Lot that seem to be coming through with the detachable scarves.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, I love those.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And I think it kind of feels like a two for one because I think there's like something quite European and chic about the scarf thrown over the shoulder and like a beautiful short coat. But then there's something quite nice and simple and sleek. Very cbk, if you will. Of course, the jacket without the scarf and just a good layered basics on.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I like that it adds depth to an outfit without dominating it. Sometimes in winter I find I'm too reliant on the coat to be carrying the fit.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's good to have something that can add to what you're wearing underneath but also add a brooch to that girl. Off you go.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's actually. Yeah, well, I'm only allowed one, but if I was allowed to, maybe I would get a boat.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I kind of cheated there.

[Joanna Fleming]

But anyway, Joe, mine is a flat knee high boot because I have an issue with only having heeled boots and there are a lot of occasions where it calls for a flat and a ballet slipper. I feel my foot gets a little cold. And then you've only got a sneaker. So you need a flat knee high boot, I feel. Or an ankle boot. But I just don't feel like I can complete an outfit with an ankle boot when it's flat. A heel, anyway. There's a lot of complexities around the heel versus the flat, but I'm looking for like a suede kind of riding boot.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh.

[Joanna Fleming]

So I have found a couple of options but I think we're going to see some more come through the closer we get to these winter mornings. I have seen some Tony Bianco ones. The style is called Haze. The Cos flat suede riding boots. They're a bit more expenny Virali Garfield. I think they were a leather one, though. So they weren't the. I'm like, you know, I'm looking for a chocolate suede.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Chocolate suede. It's giving writing.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yep. Steve Madden have a pair called Resonate and I think when we were talking about this the other day, you said Michelle Andrews was walking around the office in a pair of Steve Madden ones.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Steve Madden boots, yeah. They looked amazing. I think they had a slight heel on them, though. But I would count them as a flat.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I would. That's very me of you to say. Yeah, it's got a heel but it's basically a flat.

[Joanna Fleming]

So that's what I'm on the hunt for. If anyone sees a pair of please feel free to DM me. I'm open to suggestions.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Look, it's not a brown chocolate suede. But what I will say is last year I did buy one pair of boots and they were a flat, knee high Tony Bianco boot.

[Host 1]

Okay?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They are the most comfortable boot. Famously, anytime I wore them, I always like had some form of like barn jacket or something on. And reed be like, oh, we're back in our horse girl fit.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Full horse girl?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I lent in. I cosplayed right to its core. Like, get me to the barn and like, let's. You know. I was going to say, what do

[Rhiannon Joyce]

you do in the barn?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'd get Betty, my horse. My imaginary horse that I'd call Betty. But yeah, they are so comfy. They keep your legs warm as well.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

They do. And they're great at festivals.

[Joanna Fleming]

I don't go to festivals, but I'll take your word for it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Ray, given that you cheated, what else was on your list? Give me like a 30 second reel.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

At the moment, my obsession is detachable faux fur collars and cuffs. And I found someone Etsy and I'm really, really keen to deep dive these because you can just add them to your existing jackets. You don't have to reinvest in.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I feel like this is a valid one.

[Joanna Fleming]

This is so popsy of you. Adrian's grandma, she's 91, loves a little fur edition.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Love it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you know what you need to check out? I was at dinner with a girlfriend the other night and she had this incredible cardigan on that was like, it looked like detachable fur around the neckline and sleeves. And it was an age. It doesn't. Doesn't look like age at all. It really surprised me. It's called the province cardigan and it is like a snow bunny wonderland. I think it's right up your alley. It also comes in a burgundy which would look great on you.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Great for me. That's in my will.

[Joanna Fleming]

I might need to also invest.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, okay.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Actually good on you too.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

A worthy inclusion, but we do need to move on to our opinions, please, because one of our lovely listeners needs some help. And Jo, I feel like you're going to be able to contribute a lot to this. For those of you who don't know what opinions, please is if you're new here, we have a number of our listeners contribute or submit their own real life dilemma in the beauty, fashion, lifestyle space. And we are here to. So this is from listener Caitlin. Hi, Joe Madsen. Ray, I have a Question. Mainly for Joe. Thanks for calling that up. You know what?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They're mainly always for Joe.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Mainly for Joe. But good to be clear and direct. So thank you, Caitlin. I appreciate any advice you all have. How in the world did you get Adrian into doing a skincare routine or even testing your products? My boyfriend probably splashes his face in the shower and wears an SPF moisturizer duo on occasion. I want him to wear SPF every day, but it's proving difficult. Love, listener Caitlin. All right, Jo, the obvious place to start. How did you get Adrian into skincare?

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay, fun fact. This was actually how our relationship began.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay, story time.

[Joanna Fleming]

So I met Adrian on Hinge at the end of 2021. And the prompt that he actually replied to was, we'll get along if you have a skincare routine. And he replied to that because he had some, like, random Cora Organics mask and, I don't know, maybe some Clarins stuff that his mum had given and he counted that as doing skincare. But he actually does like using skincare, so that is on my side, Caitlin. I will say that if they're not interested, it is a harder sell. Whereas he is willing to sit on the edge of the bath each night and I just put his skincare on him. He does have to do his own in the morning, which is sometimes where the sunscreen slips off.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Right.

[Joanna Fleming]

Because he does sometimes forget to do that. And I am very on him. Like, I have openly said, we will get divorced if he gets sunburned. So, yeah, he wears a rashi anytime that he's like, out in a pool or at the beach or anything like that. Good with a hat, all those kinds of things. But sometimes that daily sunscreen can slip off. So including something that can act as a bit of a moisturizer and sunscreen

[Rhiannon Joyce]

situation, like a two pronged approach would

[Joanna Fleming]

make it a bit easier, could maybe encourage them a little bit more. Re. Does Lou wear skincare?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Look, he's not invested in skincare as much as I would like him to be. He has a habit of using my very expensive products, though, so.

[Joanna Fleming]

Too busy on the iPad.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

He's too busy ipading. And you know that that light is affecting his skin.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And for those who didn't listen to last week's episode, it was revealed to us that Ray does not, in fact have a child who likes iPad time, but a husband who loves his iPad time.

[Joanna Fleming]

I do.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

The thing with Lou and his skincare is he's like, I don't want to use this product. I don't like it. And then we'll secretly start using it.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And then all of a sudden I'm like, you're using my rationale for cleanser. And he's like, oh, yeah. Like, I actually really like this cleanser. Like, so you wouldn't let me introduce anything into your skincare routine. Like, he has to get there on his own.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So he's not super receptive to being told what to do right now. I have worked with Rationale in the past. I love them. I do buy a lot of their products and they are part of my ongoing routine. He does love the Cerave oil cleanser, though. Obsessed. Have to really push him on that because my rationale for cleanser is not accessible.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And unless he's buying it and he's not.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So he's not.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So he's on the Cerave oil cleanser, which I use as part of my double cleansing routine in combination with the rationale for. But I have to ration the rationale for Lewis.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes. I think it would come as quite a surprise for people to learn that a lot of my female clients then send their partners to me to get skincare routines made for them. And often I'm keeping it relatively simple. I feel like just starting with introducing a few basics and just getting them in a routine helps. And then once they're on the journey, they're on the journey and they're coming back to me for more actives.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So what would be your go to recommendation? Yeah, for Caitlin.

[Joanna Fleming]

So I would say we want to start with a gentle cleanser. I think Cerave is a really good option because they've got quite a few different cleansers and we can choose based on his skin type. So if he tends to be oilier, we might go more for the foaming cleanser. If he tends to be dry, we might go more for the, like, cream to foam or the hydrating cleanser. Potentially. Then I'd be looking at a relatively lightweight moisturizer. The main feedback I get from straight males is I don't like the feeling of anything on my skin.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That's Louis.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. So opting for something that is quite lightweight, I tend to recommend the Cerave facial moisturizing lotion. They've got a PM version. They also do have an AM version with sunscreen in it. I also do like the Innisfree green tea seed hyaluronic cream, which is quite lightweight. There are a lot of kind of gel creams in the K beauty space, so that could be something to Google. Is like a gel cream because it is quite lightweight in its texture and it will absorb quite quickly so it doesn't feel occlusive on the skin at night. Then obviously sunscreen, because we're not introducing actives, we are not fucking with actives. Until we have a sunscreen that is being used daily, it is not happening. So that is a conversation that I have with most of my straight male clients is you don't get to have the fun stuff until you're prepared to use the sunscreen daily.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That's fair enough.

[Joanna Fleming]

And a sunscreen that's suitable for a lot of men because they tend to have oilier skin because biologically they have more sebaceous glands is the breakout hack. I think it's called the Skin Shady Sunscreen. It's a really suitable sunscreen for an oilier or acne prone skin. So I tend to find that that is a pretty good option because it's got a mattifying finish.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So, Jo, I love that you've gone straight into action mode.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I did very much force Jo to do that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, you forced her hand. But I think back to Caitlin's point, How do you actually get them to be open to using it in the first place?

[Joanna Fleming]

See, I think there comes an age where they start to notice the signs of aging and they go, shit, I've left it too late because I'm starting to notice my own brothers. They come to me and they're like, oh, have you got a cleanser? If you've got a moisturizer, you got this. And that's because they're starting to notice the signs of aging. I think they start to notice their face changing and then they go, oh. Or they start to experience a skin concern. They might be getting a bit of a razor rash. They might be getting some breakouts or they might be noticing some blackheads. So I think it's where they start to notice something's not quite right, is when they start to feel like they might need to begin investing. Yeah. I think if everything's going swimmingly and their skin looks the same as it did when they were 20, they don't care about it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

But having something in the shower for them to use is maybe just like having these basics. They've only got three steps or even two steps on some occasions where they need to use something on their face.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

They're reactive, not proactive.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

One that I love as well is it's when someone starts dating someone and it's not just hetero relationships. I know a Gay couple where one of them is like the most diligent, like 10 step skincare routine. And he was like, babes, when we are 50, you are gonna look 50 and I'm gonna look 30. So you're gonna need to get on the journey, get on the bus.

[Joanna Fleming]

Early days of me dating Adrian, he brought his toiletries bag to my house and I threw products in the bin and I put other products in there.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Okay, good. I was waiting for that part.

[Joanna Fleming]

Threw things out and I replaced them. And he was like. He discovered it later and was like, wait, what? Where is my.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You didn't tell him? Like a thief in the night in the cloak of darkness. Just joke. Ch in the bin.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Psychologically, I do think there is also something in what a product looks like.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And they say that women are more impacted by marketing, but I would beg to differ because if a product looks clinically, like it's going to do something in the way that the color codes are on the packaging or if it doesn't look too traditionally feminine in the color codes of pink, you know, it looks a little bit more gender neutral. I do think men are more inclined to try products. That's just a take from.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No, it's. I've definitely seen it in real time. I mean, it was a very long time ago not to out my age, but when I was like 18, working, working on the shop floor of a multi retailer. A lot of men coming in, only gravitating towards brands like Malin and Gets or Kiehl's where it's in blue. Blue for boys.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Or that the brand starts with doctor.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Because they assume doctor is a man. I think we've progressed quite a bit since then. Like a lot of my straight male friends use Kit, which is a brand I'd worked on. I think, you know, like the fragrances aren't overly feminine. I would say they're like a pretty neutral kind of botanical fragrance. Red is, you know, a less inoffensive shade to some men who might have a color affinity or a perception.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Speaking of red, I did mention this on the podcast. Not. I can't remember when, maybe a few months ago. But the Tower 28 SOS spray is a fan favorite amongst Louis and his friends particularly.

[Joanna Fleming]

Actually, Adrian loves that too.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Loves it, Loves it like after a run or after being to the beach, anything. He's like obsessed with how it makes his skin feel. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So there you go.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So random. Aren't they random?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Maybe red's the affinity show.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So I'm not really the person to talk to in terms of, like, having a proper routine or how to get someone into it, because I still haven't got Louis into it.

[Joanna Fleming]

I would say there's no reason why your male partner cannot use the same skincare as you. I can.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's too expensive.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm like, get me to chemist warehouse babes. Get step away from the Augustinas barter that. I tell you what, that'd be my second divorce.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

There is a big reason, Joe, sometimes

[Joanna Fleming]

what I'll do with, like, if I know that a male has come to me and his, like, female partner has also been to me, I will look at what I've included in her routine and I'll be like, oh, you could use that, too.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay, cool.

[Joanna Fleming]

So let's, like, let's both use that. And then you can share the cost of the skincare, but there is no actual, like, there's not a formulation reason why you wouldn't be able to use the same skincare unless you have different skin types. That's exactly right.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

So if you do both have oily skin, you can probably share your skincare. Like, you could share your cleanser and your moisturizer, but then keep the more expensive she.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Louis, if you're listening, get to High Street Rationale. And number four, get the jumbo one actually while you're there. But that's all for this week's episode of Stylish. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks very much to you two, Ramon Joyce and Joanna Fleming. We always love when you bring your skin expertise and passion, so always a pleasure anytime.

[Joanna Fleming]

Thanks, Mads.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And remember, you can drop us an [e-mail] or you can slide into our DMs over Yelishpod, maybe share what your, you know, partners, husbands, friends, male friends are using. And we can't forget to thank the Shameless media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emmett Burke. You'll be hearing from Ree and Nymar this Friday and from the team next Wednesday. I'll be on Vacay, so I'm not going to be in my usual slot.

[Host 2]

Holiday.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It could be sunlight Holiday.

[Joanna Fleming]

You know you're enabling.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land.

[Joanna Fleming]

Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Hello, everybody.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's.

[Host 1]

It's us.

[Host 2]

Shock.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's us again. Whoopsie.

[Host 1]

We felt like we haven't spoken to you guys about shame more much recently.

[Host 2]

No, and the thing is, we may mention shame or a little bit in our General episodes every now and then. But if you don't actually know what it is or you've come on and you feel like we've never explained it to you. Shame or is the subscription arm our subscription arm of Shameless?

[Host 1]

Do you get it? Shameless or Shame More?

[Host 2]

Ah, when you subscribe to Shame More, you get a few perks. That includes early access to most of our episodes that are completely ad free. Also, twice a month, we drop drop exclusive episodes that only Shame More subscribers can hear.

[Host 1]

Yeah, so on Shameless, you get our takes on pop culture. Over on Shame More, you get more us. I guess so. Every month we talk about the Roman Empire topic we secretly can't stop thinking about. We also welcome you into our inner circle, where the people closest to us in our private lives ask a big question that we then tackle live on Mike.

[Host 2]

If you subscribe to Shame More today, you immediately unlock dozens of exclusive episodes. Everything from Misha's recap of the first few months of motherhood.

[Host 1]

Your relationship with fear was a great one.

[Host 2]

Yeah. To what we both visualize when we think of the afterlife. We really go here, there, and everywhere. As they say, there and everywhere. Can I also say, oh, someone said to you recently that they thought that because we only ever on our Instagram put up shame or Ask us what you want, they think It's Q&As.

[Host 1]

Yeah, but you do get an Ask us anything portion in every episode as well.

[Host 2]

It's just at the end.

[Host 1]

It's at the end. So if you're thinking Shame More is just an Ask missionzara anything.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Host 1]

We're talking ad free. We're talking early access, we're talking exclusive eps, including little Ask us any things at the end.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's it.

[Host 2]

Subscribing on Apple podcasts is easy. Just click the locked episodes in the Shameless feed and follow the prompts over on Spotify. You just need to search for Shame More. Click into that feed and follow those prompts.

[Host 1]

It's a little trickier.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We won't lie to you.

[Host 1]

It is easier on Apple. But on Spotify again, we back you.

[Host 2]

Yeah. You can do this.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You can do it.

[Host 1]

I did it. I figured it out.

[Host 2]

Thanks, everyone. Speak soon.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Bye.