We answer your burning career questions

Summary

Style-ish Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Style-ish by Shameless Media
Episode: We answer your burning career questions
Date: March 12, 2026
Hosts: Rhiannon Joyce (Chief Commercial Officer, Shameless Media) and Naima Fatima (Head of Social, Shameless Media; guest co-host, filling in for Mads)

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Episode Theme:

This episode dives into the realities of building a career in fashion, lifestyle, brand, and beauty—particularly in social media. Rhiannon and Naima answer listener-submitted career questions, discuss breaking into creative roles, balancing personal and professional social media, diversity in marketing, the value of “unsexy” career advice, and share inspirations for those aiming to chart unconventional paths.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Naima’s Career Path: Unconventional Moves & Self-Advocacy

(08:53 - 17:30)

• Naima’s background: Started in pharmaceutical B2B marketing while at university, which she sees as a tough but essential training ground.

  “If I can do B2B marketing, from pharma reps to doctors, that’s tough. I can do anything.” (Naima, 11:30)

• Embracing sideways moves: Opted for varied experiences (pharma, retail, agency) over climbing a single career ladder.

  “I didn’t want to just stick in one position… I picked my jobs as I went along in lots of different areas.” (Naima, 10:13)

• Networking in unexpected places: Got her job at Cotton On through a Facebook local clothing sale, leading to a pivotal career step.

  “I shot my shot over Facebook Messenger.” (Naima, 13:11)

• Valuable takeaway: Your dream job doesn’t have to be your first job; build foundational skills and relationships for later opportunities.

2. The Power of Branding and Consistency in Social Media

(02:26 - 06:56)

• Word(s) of the Week: Naima spotlights Dia Jawaki, a Mumbai-based designer, for her creative use of repetitive TikTok formats and hand-crafted clothing.
  • Emphasizes the power of format recognition, continuity, and personal branding.
  • Audiences value knowing what to expect; visual cues (like filming in the same room/mirror) boost engagement.

    “It’s almost like your branding... I think people know what to expect from me.” (Naima, 04:44)

• Format as Brand: Rhiannon and Naima reference creator Caitlin Emico—her videos start the same way, making her memorable even when her name slips viewers’ minds.

  “It’s not so much ‘I follow Caitlin Emigo,’ it’s ‘I follow the girl who talks about dressing for a woman who’s a size 12.’” (Rhiannon, 05:33)

3. Balancing Personal and Professional Platforms

(21:44 - 27:23)

• Industry Trends: Growing demand for content creators with full-time jobs (“the 9-5 creator”).

  “What brands are looking for are creators with jobs…cool jobs.” (Naima, 22:30)

• Transparency is vital: When working for a brand, clarify which brands/campaigns you work with to avoid conflicts.

  “We have social media policies in place to make sure that we’re protecting our people, but also we’re protecting our brand and our business...The most important thing for me is transparency.” (Rhiannon, 24:34–24:53)

• Different workplaces, different rules: More traditional or global companies may discourage or outright prohibit personal social media brands, especially in unrelated sectors (e.g., banking).

4. Diversity and Representation

(17:59 - 20:40)

• Being a Person of Color: Naima lacked role models in marketing, especially in front-facing creative roles.

  “I felt like there was no one really that I could look up to… There’s quite a bit of pressure to go into specific types of roles.” (Naima, 18:10–18:52)

• Cultural Expectations: Family pressure leaned toward conventional careers (“lawyer, doctor, engineer”), so pursuing marketing meant forging her own way.
• Motivation to Inspire:

  “If it’s not there and you’re not making it…you could do it. So get in.” (Naima, 20:19)

  • Naima sees herself as paving the way for those without existing representation.

  “I got a bit more creative with how I ended up in front of people.” (Naima, 19:43)

5. Unsexy Career Advice: Self-Advocacy and Initiative

(27:38 - 30:33)

• Advocate for Yourself:

  “No one will advocate for you as well as you can.” (Naima, 27:50)

  • Keep a “Best Work” or “Kind Words” folder for recognition—use as evidence during performance reviews or promotion asks.
• Take Initiative: Go above and beyond your basic job description; proactively volunteer to help or suggest solutions.

  “Say, I can help, or do you need a hand or see a problem and offer a solution.” (Rhiannon, 29:30)

6. Inspirations & Career Role Models

(31:20 - 34:25)

• Rhiannon’s picks:
  • Emma Grede: Co-founder of Skims/Good American, admired for her candid leadership and self-deprecating tone.
  • Alexis Barber: Her Substack newsletter “Too Smart for This” is packed with actionable career & personal insights.
  • Bri Johnson (Frank Body/Willow and Blake): Valued for her approachable mentorship and female-driven branding.
• Naima’s pick:
  • Zoe Foster Blake: Praised for injecting wit and authenticity into women’s branding and marketing, forging her own, non-linear path from editor to business founder.

    “You can actually target women and sell to women in the way that they want to be sold to.” (Naima, 33:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the unpredictability of career paths:

“I was like, this is where I could be.” (Naima, 16:29)

On why consistency matters in social content:

“When they see it multiple times, they’re like, oh, no, I like this. I’m never gonna get anything that’s not exactly in this brand promise.” (Naima, 05:16)

On navigating diversity and representation:

“Because I didn’t, I just had a bit more audacity…there’s got to be a need for it.” (Naima, 19:43)

Advice to young professionals:

“Your dream job does not have to be your first job.” (Rhiannon, 11:24)

On unsexy career tips:

“No one will advocate for you as well as you can.” (Naima, 27:50)
“Take initiative.” (Rhiannon, 29:27)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:40 – 01:39]: Naima’s entry as a guest co-host and discussion of “slow burn” career moments.
• [02:26 – 06:26]: “Word of the week,” branding and consistency on social media.
• [08:53 – 17:30]: Naima’s career journey, “shooting your shot,” moves in marketing and retail, leveraging opportunities.
• [17:59 – 20:40]: Navigating marketing as a person of color; pressure, lack of role models.
• [21:44 – 27:23]: Creator/brand duality, social media boundaries, transparency in employment.
• [27:38 – 30:33]: Unsexy advice: Self-advocacy and taking initiative.
• [31:20 – 34:25]: Most inspiring career role models.
• [34:41 – end]: Wrap up and gratitude for listener engagement.

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

This episode is conversational, candid, and motivational, rich with real-world examples from two women with non-traditional career paths in media and fashion. Their discussion empowers listeners to pursue creative opportunities, understand the value of consistency (in both social branding and work ethic), and cultivate the courage to self-advocate, seek transparency, and define their inspiration.

For anyone navigating an early or transitional phase in a creative career—or those from underrepresented backgrounds—this episode offers actionable advice and encouragement to be audacious, strategic, and, above all, authentic.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Dan Murphy's Find out what's new now and next when it comes to trending drinks. Hello, everyone. Happy Friday. I'm Rhiannon Joyce. I'm the Chief Commercial Officer at Shameless Media. And today I am joined by a new co host who is is actually covering for Mads, Shameless Media's head of Social, Naima Fatima.

[B]

Naima. Hi, everyone. I'm very excited to be here. You're here. I know this is not normally the room I'm in. I'm on the other side normally editing your footage.

[A]

Sometimes I think the people who are behind the scenes have the most to say. So I'm very, very excited because so many people are really, really excited to hear your career journey and understand a bit more about how you got here. And that is the perfect place to be having these conversations.

[B]

You're.

[A]

You guys know this is the corner of Stylish that focuses more on brand campaigns, career stories, and the career patch is what we're deep diving today. Naima, how are you feeling?

[B]

I'm going to be honest with you in the, you know, the safe four walls in here, probably a little bit nervous, but I did pitch myself to Zara in October so that this has been a long time coming.

[A]

This has been a slow burn.

[B]

Yeah. I actually pulled her into this exact room and I talked to her about why I thought I could be good in these episodes. And we've been piloting. I've piloted with Yuri. I've piloted with Lucy, our head of podcasts. I've piloted with Zara. I was nervous, but I also feel very comfortable now because we've had a beautiful slow burn, which is how I like it.

[A]

I love a Runway to these moments. And that's exactly what this has been to your point. It's been almost. I think it was four to five months. And what I loved about our pilot episode was that it did feel very conversational. And as someone who has been doing this, not as long as the pros like Michelle and Zara, but what I found being in the studio is that the best conversations are the ones that feel really authentic but also feel very conversational. And I know that might sound so obvious, but yeah, I really enjoyed piloting with you. I'm super excited to talk to you today about your career. I know the community is super interested as well, but before we get into that, I know that you know this. We do our word of the week, and because you're our guest co host, I Thought it was only fair that you step up to the plate and share your word.

[B]

Yay. I mean I love hearing your word of the week. So in classic Re and Maddie style, I have not picked one word. I've chosen two words.

[A]

I would be mad if you came in with one.

[B]

And it's actually a creator. It's someone who I saw on my for your page a little while ago and have been really into. But she's kind of blown up recently. Her name is Dia jawaki. She's a 25 year old designer from Mumbai, India and she makes the most incredible clothes. They're very street style but also have this like Indian influence. So you'll see like a pair of jors sequin embroidery all over them, which sounds insane but I. It's like if you've seen any of my clothes, it's like the perfect mixture of all of my worlds.

[A]

I was just about to say this is giving Naima.

[B]

Yeah. And she. I was obviously obsessed with the clothes but I loved the format of the videos that she was doing. So she would kind of show. She'd be like sitting in a restaurant, have a cup of tea, then walk through the streets and like interact with different people. Always using the same song as well.

[A]

Oh, okay. What song is it?

[B]

It's a frank ocean song.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And she kind of goes through like bits of periods where she just uses the same song. So it's got that like instant recognition from the audience.

[A]

It's familiarity.

[B]

Yeah. And what I think is so cool about it is that she's obviously young, early in her career creating these clothes by hand and she obviously probably doesn't have a marketing budget. Like she doesn't have a social media coordinator, she doesn't have ad spend and she's just thought of a really creative way to break through. Just created the same, same TikToks again and again and like really broken through on the feed.

[A]

So is she selling a lot of the clothes that she's wearing? Yes.

[B]

So I went onto her website and she's actually sold out of everything, which is so wild.

[A]

I definitely need to follow her. If she is anything like you and your content, I know I will love it because one thing I absolutely love about your videos, weirdly, the continuity and almost knowing what I'm going to get.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I do want to deepen this a little bit because as head of socials you obviously have a knack for socials. What is it about that familiarity piece and the expected format of having something consistently show up up from a recognition point of view that works well on social.

[B]

I think there's two elements from it. From like a creative point of view, I would say it's. There's a fair bit of like, ease. Like, it's a lot easier to create the content and continue to have like a passion and a sustainability point from the content for a viewer. I think it's when you are on a for you page, it is so chaotic. I think seeing something that is the same visual cues, it's almost like you're branding. Right? It's like for me, in my videos, I don't know if everyone follows me here, but I create a lot of my videos in my room. So it's the same four walls. And then on a Sunday night I put up my outfits of the week and it's the same mirror. So I think people know what to expect from me. And then when they see it multiple times, they're like, oh, no, I like this. I'm never going to get anything that's not exactly in this brand. Promise.

[A]

That's exactly what it is. Do you know who speaks a lot about this as well, who I absolutely love, and we interviewed her on Face to Face is Caitlin Emico. Yeah, it's about this continuity piece of starting the video the same way. And you know, on that episode we spoke a lot about. I was laughing because I could not for the life of me remember the name of this creator that I followed. But I remembered the format of the video that she often uses and Caitlin was like, that's what you need for recognition. It's not so much or I follow Caitlin Emigo. It's I follow the girl who talks about dressing for a woman who's a size 12. I adore that series and I know it's one of her most popular because she gets really good engagement. From what I can see online, that's a really good example of, you know, that repetition and making sure that you're showing up online consistently. For me, it might be like, I'm always doing my content videos either in the shameless media or content space, or I'm in the same four walls at home.

[B]

I remember when you asked this question on the interview as well. And I did that activity for myself and I was like, the girl with the mirror, like the fit checks in the mirror and this is like an anecdote. But I'm actually moving house at the moment. And one of the first things that multiple people have said to me is like, what's gonna happen to your mirror? Like, that's how like aligned it is to your branding and it might not like it didn't work for years and then it's like one thing worked and it started going, but it's like then people have a whole backlog of content that they can go into.

[A]

Yeah, it is interesting. It also is a nice reminder that just because you're not getting views or you're not getting likes on something doesn't mean you should stop doing it. Because I know one of your Instagram posts went full viral before we went on summer break and that format you'd been doing for some time and then it took one post to really catapult you into this whole new sphere of meeting new followers and having like a new engaged audience. We're talking a lot about your personal accounts, but I do think it is important to acknowledge how much of a strong social presence you do have online because I do think that expertise and that, you know, balancing a social profile but also being head of socials at Shameless Media, those two things do coincide sometimes. Next, we're going to answer your burning career questions right after a word from today's sponsor. Okay, real talk, there's nothing worse than turning up to a friend's place empty handed. Or worse, bringing that safe bottle of wine no one really wants to drink. We've all been there. Personally, I like showing up with something that feels a little fun, a little unexpected, but also easy. Something everyone can actually enjoy. That's why I always started Dan Murphy's. They've got such a great range, but more than that, they always know what's trending right now. The drinks everyone's talking about and a few surprises you didn't know you needed. Think something like the Powers Vodka peach and Passion fruit or the Suntory 196 Lemon and Passion fruit. Perfect for sharing and easy to sip. So whether it's a casual catch up, a dinner party, or just a quiet Friday night with friends, you can pop into a Dan Murphy store or hop on the app and find something great to try. Next. Remember to choose to drink wise. And thank you so much to Dan Murphy's for making this episode of Stylish possible. Last week we actually popped up a question box over to our audience on the stylish Instagram and on Nymar's personal page. It's always good to tap into both. And given that you do have such a strong following on Instagram and TikTok, I thought it was really important that

[B]

we covered both of those and very different questions. So that was really interesting.

[A]

Yeah, okay, so what we have done is selected the most interesting questions across both and we're going to ask some questions directly relating to your career, Naima. So we get a really good understanding of what your industry experience has been like. And we know that our community love to hear different perspectives from different people who have walked through your experience, you know, many walks of life. So, first question, Naima, you're always all over my feed. And obviously you work for Shameless Media too. What has been your career journey and how did you end up in socials?

[B]

Great question, because this is what I would care about too. I obviously love having a sticky beak in anyone's LinkedIn profile. I was thinking about this in terms of like, you know, that meme that's like, explain this to a Victorian child. Yeah. My job would just sound so ridiculous. I think I've always approached my job overall. I've wanted to be in marketing. As a 21 year old, I just thought it was like one thing. I work in marketing. As I got into the industry, I was like, oh, it is so broad, as I'm sure you know.

[A]

That was literally the exact same thought I had. I did a double degree in marketing advertising. And you think there's one lane and then you realize there are many.

[B]

It's like pretty much every job within the business department, everything.

[A]

And the skills are so transferable, which we'll get to later, because I do think that is something that you learn early on.

[B]

Yeah. And I think quite early. I made a decision that I wanted not to just stick in one position and really try everything because I found a lot of joy in all of it. So I picked my jobs as I went along in lots of different areas, which I think probably did slow me down as I was starting up. Cause you know, I was moving sideways a lot.

[A]

So when you say slowing down, I just want to be really clear. Not moving towards like a linear trajectory or progression of like being promoted to a higher time.

[B]

I wanted to be a marketing manager by the time I was 30. And that was like a very linear, I think, trajectory. But for me I was like, I kind of want to try all these things. I know that's what I think I want to be, but is that actually what I would enjoy? So I started doing lots of like kind of sideways moves. I started in a pharmaceutical company, which is truly a rogue answer for me. And I did that while I was in uni. And I think it was a good lesson of like, you don't always have to pick the sexiest job.

[A]

Mads And I spoke about this in our first fortnightly Friday episode. Both of us had very unsexy starts in the industry.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that is one of the biggest pieces of advice I always give people is your dream job does not have to be your first job.

[B]

No. And it was actually my dream job in a way of, like, not dream job, but, like, it was such a good first job because it taught me how to be in an office environment. Like, it taught me so much about, like, the really basic marketing skills. To me, I was like, if I can do, like, B2B marketing, from pharma reps to doctors, that's tough. I can do anything, you know? Like, that was a hard first job. So when I then moved on to food fashion marketing, I was like, oh, this is fine, guys.

[A]

So tell me about that jump, because it isn't linear. How did you end up in the fashion space?

[B]

Yes. So this is also a bit of a side jump. So most of the jobs that I have always gotten, I've gotten in unconventional ways. So this one, I was putting up all of my clothes on a. Like, not deep up, but it was like a Facebook Melbourne local clothing page, and a girl bought these pants off me. And when she messaged me with the address, she was like, please send it to this address. And it was the head office of Cotton On. Okay. And I was like, cool, this is my opportunity. I was like, ah, do you like working there? What do you do? And then we talked for a bit, and I was like, oh, I've just. I'm trying to figure out what I want to do after uni. I'd love to move into the retail space. I actually worked at Cotton on when I was younger, and she was like, oh, you know, we. We have, like, a opening coming up. Would you want to send in your resume? And I was like, absolutely. And then I stayed up all night and I made my resume and I got that job.

[A]

Guys, this is one of those perfect examples of shooting your shot.

[B]

Shot my shot.

[A]

Don't ask, you don't receive.

[B]

And I shot my shot over Facebook Messenger.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, probably one of the more unconventional spaces and places to be asking for someone for a job, but it worked out.

[B]

But I was like, why not at my next job at Universal Store, which is where I worked as a. Like a retail casual as well. When I was much younger, at 19, I remember always taking the effort to talk to the head office staff. And so when a social position came up there, I just, like, reached out to them.

[A]

That's A really common trajectory for a lot of people in retail as well. A lot of my friends have also had a similar experience where they've started off in that retail store, then they've made contact or relationships with people in office. It can take some time, but I think it's important to stick it out because opportunities generally do go to the teams internally first before they outsource.

[B]

Yeah. And also it's like I had multiple jobs in between then, but it's like more about that long run and I know lots of people, like, it's just a Christmas casual job. Who cares? It's like you never know where it's going to end up or where that person, your manager there will be later on in life. You always have to make a good impression.

[A]

Absolutely. It's really important to keep good relationships where you can. I want to talk a bit more about your time at Tiny Disco because that was the role that you were in prior, starting as head of socials at Shameless Media. Breaking the fourth wall here as well. I had actually met you when you were at Tiny Disco and we were launching Stylish and you were one of the contributors for Stylish at that time. I don't know how many people who listen to Stylish right now know this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I remember doing a PR drop off to your office and being like, hey, nice to meet you. And you know, you were always such a strong advocate for our brand even before you started here.

[B]

So tell us about that again. One of those, like crazy career journeys where I looked again at my like resume and I was like, okay, what's missing here? I was like, agency experience. So then I went and got a job at an agency because I was like, this is where I could, you know, really fine tune those like, leadership skills that I think I was missing in my other roles. What then was, I guess missing from my day to day was creativity. Like, I didn't feel like I was doing the creative things that I was doing in a social job and I was like, I'm going to just start posting myself. Very luckily that got noticed by the Stylish team and the Shameless Media team.

[A]

I am going to stop you there. Not luck. That is a byproduct of work and the creativity that you have and you have such a distinctive voice and a really unique position on social media and I think that really cuts through our stylish community. Loved you from the get go. So now to have you, it's kind of, it's kind of nice having you here. And, you know, not even just in a head of Social capacity, but the fact that you're sitting here now in the studio, you are very much a person of authority, not just within our four walls, but in the broader, broader social media landscape. So you deserve to be here. You're not lucky, doll.

[B]

I feel like I've been there since it even launched. Before it launched. Like I knew about it before it launched because I was a contributor. It kind of feels like the same as like being on the retail floor in dead office. Again, literally, contributor to head of social pipeline.

[A]

There's a bit of a parallel there.

[B]

So with that, I think again I was like, I can make a really good impression here in the content that I make as a contributor. I think I can prove that I could be amazing at Shameless Media. And that was, to be honest, my goal from day one. When I took on the contributor role.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I was like, I'm gonna end up there. So I didn't know that. Yeah. I was like, this is where I could be.

[A]

And why did you want to be here?

[B]

I've listened from day one and I was like, that is where I think I can really be creative and grow those channels because I understand the content

[A]

and you do wholeheartedly. Let's talk more about the creativity piece because the one thing that I found in your role, what you've been able to contribute to our business that is so strong and a bit of background here. You stepped into the head of social's role about 12 months ago. You were actually a Matt Leave cover for Michelle Andrews, our co founder and also the co host of Shameless podcast,

[B]

a terrifying Matt Leaf cover. Big shoes. Big shoes.

[A]

But you filled them. Because all of our social channels have grown exponentially since you stepped into this room. Michelle is your biggest advocate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And has been championing you from afar. She's obviously come back into the office. You have a full time position here now. Can you tell us what your day to day and what your role at Shameless Media is now?

[B]

Yeah, it's a bit of everything, which obviously is always the most annoying answer. But at the moment we've got 11 channels and I probably touch in most pieces of content that go out. So I'm kind of responsible for shaping and executing the social media and making sure that it grows, that it's being engaged with and that we're retaining our audiences across platforms. Distilled. It's just about making really, really good content.

[A]

Okay, I want to move on to the next question because you did get a really Interesting one in your own DMS from a listener, Mariam, she asked, has being a person of color impacted career progression and the way you approach your career?

[B]

I love this question, so thank you so much for sending this one in to my personal question box. Definitely. When I started, I felt like there was no one really that I could look up to or no one that I saw that was doing a marketing role. More front facing. There was probably less front facing people on social media anyway talking about their jobs, but I felt like I really had not a lot of people that were in that were people of color that were in creative roles in general. There was like, probably culturally as well. There's quite a bit of pressure to, to go into specific types of roles.

[A]

What types of roles do you mean

[B]

like lawyer, doctor, engineer. Right. Which like obviously might be a stereotype, but that is the stereotype that existed within my own family. So explaining to not only externally but also internally what a marketing job looks like was quite a hard hill to get over. So I think it's like before I was even in it, I felt like I was on the back foot, which I think really like in one bit. Obviously it like impacted me in terms of I felt like I was on the back foot, but it also made me really creative. Like I felt like I really had to forge my own path and get really creative with the roles that I was trying to apply for and how I got in front of people.

[A]

And did you feel like you had to actively seek out mentorship or in a networking capacity? How did you go about finding people that you felt like had a shared voice or a shared experience to you?

[B]

I think, I don't know if I really did right, but I found that because I didn't, I just had a bit more audacity, like, because I was like, okay, there's not that person there, so I need to be there. Like, there's obviously a gap of people who think like me and look like me and have my experience in these jobs. So there's got to be a need for it. So I think I got a bit more creative with like how I ended up in front of people.

[A]

Are you motivated by the idea that you could be a source of inspiration or a mentor for other people?

[B]

Yes, really motivated. I think that was probably my number one reason for putting my hand up to be in the ROT room today and starting to post on social media because I didn't see the content that I wanted to see out there. So I was like, okay, cool. If it's not there and you're not making it. You don't have an excuse either. Like you could do it. So get in.

[A]

I really love that attitude. Thank you for sharing. Okay, let's move on to some questions that our audience are dying to know. A listener has asked us about the realities of creators that have full time jobs. This is a sticky one that I will also probably hijack a little bit, but we'll get into that right after a word from today's sponsor. Let's be real. It's hard enough deciding what's for dinner, let alone choosing a wine to go with it.

[B]

I.

[A]

Unless you consider yourself an expert, it can feel a little daunting wandering around the aisles at your local bottle shop. Luckily, our friends at Dan Murphy's have our back. They've gathered all of their knowledge and recommendations on the Dan Murphy's website and app so you can get some inspiration before you head in. Find out what's new and what's trending at Dan Murphy's and remember to choose to drink wise. Thank you so much to Dan Murphy's for making this episode of Stylish Possible. Okay, so as I said, we actually received a question that's all about career women wanting to be content creators. This is from Daisy. Do you think businesses actually want this and feel comfortable with it? And if you were to do it, how do you go about it? I'm keen to hear what you think, Naima.

[B]

I'm very keen to hear what you think.

[A]

No, no, I said first you have to go first.

[B]

I think this is such a. I'm so excited that me and you are in this room talking about. I think we've got very interesting perspectives on this. Like obviously to say up front, we both do this on the side. We are like, we do create content from our personal channels, but then we also are on the brand side and have worked on the brand side across multiple businesses. I think it was last year when I was looking to get some talent management, it was the number one thing that was said to me across multiple talent management agencies is that what brands are looking for are creators with jobs.

[A]

Interesting. So this is a trend that you've noticed?

[B]

Yes. And so that's coming directly from these talent managers saying the type of talent that they're going for are creators with full time jobs. And I think an additional layer to it is I'm doing air quotes. Cool jobs.

[A]

Right. It's really interesting because we've all seen this surge of content creators online. The 9 to 5 what I wore to work and I fall into this category 100% in a personal capacity. For me, the thing that I have to be really self aware about is that Shameless Media has absolutely propelled my portfolio and my positioning and I'm saying this in little quotations as well of what a cool job is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I've been at Shameless Media for six years now. When I first stepped into this role, I genuinely believed in what mission Zara were building. I was very committed to doing the work when I first started out. That was not my intention.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To leverage this machine or the brand as a way to build my personal profile. I was actually more interested in building a personal brand in a business capacity and a B2B capacity. So having more ownership over key moments in the industry, different campaigns, and being able to say I did that. I worked in a very traditional media structure. Prior to moving to Shameless Media, it was very difficult for me to say I owned that campaign or I was 100% the one who, you know, made that outcome. Yeah, I was really craving that in a work capacity. And that was something that I saw I could get from Shameless Media. So for me, it was less about the profile building in an external, individual, creative capacity, more about how could I actually show up in my job and feel like I have a lot of authority and also I have an impact.

[B]

Yeah. And from more of a like business perspective where like you've obviously started it when you've worked here and it's built over time. How do you think businesses handle it when it's more of a content creator who's come in who already has a profile?

[A]

I think the most important thing is to always have transparency.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know, in a business like ours, you had a profile prior to coming in here and we're kind of breaking the fourth wall here. But I do think this is interesting and important context for people. We have social media policies in place to make sure that we're protecting our people, but also we're protecting our brand and our business. We obviously take advertising revenue from brand partners. So, you know, sometimes there can be a conflict of interest when it comes to someone working individually on a brand that might be a direct competitor to someone that we're working. It's on stylish or we really ask for is transparency from the get go around who you're working with. We don't need to know the details. It's literally, I mean, you know this. All you have to do is really send me an email. Be like, hey, FYI, I'm working with X, Y, And Z brand coming up. It's just so we have visibility and can make sure that we're, you know, keeping things separate. But I think the most important thing for me is transparency. And I remember when you started as a contributor and then moved to a full time role, that was a conversation that you had with us quite transparently. So I will say Shameless media is a bit of an anomaly.

[B]

It's. We're in a unique position.

[A]

Very unique. I can understand how certain businesses who are more rigid or perhaps global businesses might have stricter policies or they might not be in the content, in the marketing space and not see any value in this. Yeah, it really does depend what space you play in. There are a lot of creators that I'm seeing right now online saying that they're leaving their full time jobs in banking and investment because they're being told that they can't have any personal brand on social whatsoever. I don't necessarily agree with that. I think a content creator, if they're doing something that is completely unrelated to what they're doing in their nine to five, I don't see why that should be an issue. But also I don't work in banking totally. So I'm not sure what the parameters and what the actual expectations are in their contracts and how that's enforced. Yeah, but I can see the value for a beauty brand if they've got creators in their own four walls. There is also a strength to that as well. But there are also weaknesses. So to be honest, I don't usually sit on the fence but I see it from both sides. What about you? What do you think?

[B]

I 100% agree with you on the industry point as well. It's so dependent on the industry. We saw that like influx on TikTok of, you know, I had to quit my finance job in New York. We saw that everywhere. And similar to my career of like I could not do this when I worked for a global pharmaceutical company. No, that would be a very different story.

[A]

You shouldn't seek out a job with the intention of trying to be a creator. I think that is a fallacy and that could end up being a problem not just for you but for a business. So I would question the intentions if that was someone's whole purpose of like coming into a role. I don't think that's going to work out for either parties. It feels a little misguided. That being said, if you are someone who has an existing profile or you do care about that, that's not to say you shouldn't pursue it. It just shouldn't be the sole reason why you take a job or jump into a certain type of career.

[B]

Yeah. And at the end of the day, just let everyone know what you're doing.

[A]

Yeah. I think the transparency piece is always the thing that we'll come back to. All right, next question. This is one is from Jaz. Jaz has asked what is your best unsexy advice for for work?

[B]

I love this question.

[A]

Me too. I love an unsexy question.

[B]

I love like this person knows content.

[A]

Also, Naima and I have like no notes here which says that we have like very clear answers. What's yours?

[B]

Mine is no one will advocate for you as well as you can. I think when you're early on in your career, you can have managers who are really good mentors. They're going to support you through things. But when it comes to progressing in your career, the only one who can advocate for you and advocate the choices that you're making is yourself. You're the one who knows what you do best. You're the one who can be in the room and tell someone that, yes, I deserve a promotion. Yes, this is what's next for me. As at the end of the day, the only person who can keep progressing where you get to with your career is yourself.

[A]

I think that is so true. I also always encourage young people and I did this a lot and one of my old managers told me to do this. I also think I am repeating from a previous episode, but I do think it's relevant in this sense when it comes to personal advocacy. It is one thing to say I deserve a promotion. It's another thing to show why. This is why I always encourage people to keep a best work folder.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of these moments when they've received recognition. It could be from a client or it could be from another staff member. Internally, it could be, you know, showing that you've gone above and beyond your day to day job is what will also support you being able to voice and advocate for yourself. I do think it's really important to have tangible examples of why you deserve to be promoted.

[B]

At my old job, I used to have a folder called Kind Words. Oh, in my email.

[A]

I love that. Yeah, Mine was best work. Mine was a little bit arrogant. Yeah. It's very, very.

[B]

The two person.

[A]

Yeah, the two personalities are coming through them. Okay. Mine is take initiative and anyone who knows me, this will not be a surprise.

[B]

It's a great one and kind of links back into advocating for yourself.

[A]

It does for me. Taking initiative has been longstanding. It is always the thing that I was taught from a very young age that you need to be able to, particularly in the workplace, say, I can help, or do you need a hand or see a problem and offer a solution? I really, really encourage people to do that. Because what it shows leadership is that you're willing to put yourself out there, you're willing to go the extra mile to help. And sometimes it can feel like you're just doing spots and dots and, you know, you should be rewarded for that. And by all means, we all should be doing what's in our job description. But we know the reality of it is you need to be able to show you're doing an extra 10 or 15%. And I think that initiative is really important to be able to demonstrate that.

[B]

I agree 100%. And as I've kind of move from being, you know, to middle to like, management, that is the thing I think I look at the most now. Like, that is the thing where I'm like, oh, I really noticed that. And I really appreciate that. And I think that's what's going to move you along.

[A]

I feel really lucky. I actually manage a team of seven, soon to be eight, which is wild to think. But the one thing that I really appreciate and love, all the girls in the partnerships team, and I'm speaking about the partnerships team. This is obviously shameless media as a whole. But the people I directly manage, the one quality in all of them is their ability to take initiative. I can tell you countless times where they've gotten to something before. I have.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I've gone, oh, that is just such a nice feeling to know that you have people in your corner, but also in our four walls that are really willing to take initiative. It is by far my most unsexy advice, but also the most important piece of advice.

[B]

I love that. All right, and now we've got our last question. This is from Satori. She asked, who is your biggest career inspiration and how do they inspire you?

[A]

I love a wreck. So also, I included three people on this top one. But that's just textbook me. I mean, I don't know these people. I'll be really honest. One of them I do. Two of them I don't. But my ultimate source of inspiration, particularly when it comes to career, is definitely Emma Greed. I don't know if I have to introduce her, but for those of you who don't know, she's the co founder of Skims Good American. She's launched a number of Brands recently. She is just such an amazing source of inspiration. Her podcast Aspire gives you so much access to all different types of people in leadership positions, people who have been super successful entrepreneurs, you know, really senior C suite people at high exec companies. She's just incredible and I just love her tone and how she's very self deprecating in a world where a lot of people take themselves quite seriously. Alexis Barber, who also has a substack, too, too smart for this. I've recommended this on my personal channels and also the stylish Friday episode. She has been a constant source for me recently. I honestly read her substack every week and every time I find something of value there that can apply to my job, I highly, highly recommend following her or subscribing to her. And finally, this one is a little bit personal and close. And I do know Brie very well, but Bri Johnson, who is the co founder of Frank Body and Willow and Blake, which is one of my favorite branding agencies in Australia, I am just constantly blown away by Bri and how she moves through the world, but also the expertise that she shared with me. On a personal note, I feel very lucky to be in close proximity to her as well as Jess, who was also the co founder of Frank Body. They just have such a wealth of knowledge and I feel very blessed to be able to have access to that. And I also really respect when people are willing to share their success and their learnings and their guidance in a way that's very tangible. And both of those women have done that for me.

[B]

Bree Johnson has been on my list, I reckon, since like I was in uni, you know, like they were the case studies. Like I remember Frank Body coming up and being like, whoa. That is the marketing tone that I love that is so interesting and fun and feels exactly like the tone I want to hear as a woman.

[A]

Absolutely. They know brand, they know female brands.

[B]

That's.

[A]

I love that point that you've made. Nightmare. The tone of being a woman, I feel like they really, really have a good sense of that. Okay, who's yours?

[B]

Speaking of, you know, brands where I love the tone, mine would be Zoe Foster Blake. I think when I was 21 20, it was like the copy and the branding used to blow my mind.

[A]

There was nothing like that.

[B]

Yeah. At the time I was like, oh, you can have fun with marketing. Like it's not a serious thing. It's like you can actually target women and sell to women in the way that they want to be sold to. And I Loved that she didn't take the direction of what everyone else was doing in market and took a complete left turn.

[A]

Well, coming back to your point up top, it's also a very different trajectory from that stock standard linear approach. She went full sideways in her career. She was a beauty editor. She was a bazaar. And then she went out on her own and built her own brand. Like that's not a traditional trajectory.

[B]

Yeah. And like knowing, I guess she took so many learnings from being an editor and knowing what women want and took that and put it into a brand, which is so cool.

[A]

Very impressive. All right, guys, that's all we have time for today. Naima, thank you so much for joining us. How are you feeling?

[B]

Thank you for having me. That was just like us chatting normally.

[A]

That's literally what it is and that's what we love. We will be back in your ears next Friday. Feel free to email style-ishameless media.com or sign into our DMs over at Stylish Pod to keep chatting to us. We love hearing from you. As always, big thanks to the show's production team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt, and senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke. And thank you again, Nmar, for joining us. I'm looking forward to having you on more episodes.

[B]

Thanks for having me. I had a great time.

[A]

Bye, guys.

[B]

Bye, guys.

[A]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land.

[B]

Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land.

[A]

Hello, it's Ruby hall here. I'm the host of Shameless Media's interview show, Inherited. New interviews drop every single Tuesday. And now you can find the full length video version of these interviews on Spotify. This week I speak to British pop artist Maisie Peters. Maisie is only 25. She signed with Ed Sheeran, who she casually refers to as her boss, has made her Glastonbury debut and supported Taylor Swift at the Eras tour. Look, here's a quick snippet of our conversation. I think you're gonna love it.

[B]

My manager calls me and he says,

[A]

what are you doing August 19th?

[B]

And I am just not really paying

[A]

attention because I'm in at this shop

[B]

and I'm like, oh, I don't know, like, what am I doing August 19th?

[A]

And he was like, would you like

[B]

to support Taylor Swift at the Eras tour? And it was a huge moment. I mean, yeah, literally a dream come true. I ran into the changing room while my sister was getting changed and she

[A]

was trying something on and I was like, ellen, you will not believe what I've just been told to listen to my chat with Maisie in full. Just search Inherited on your favorite podcast app right now. New Inherited episodes drop every single Tuesday in the feed.

[B]

So I'll see you then.