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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
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B
This episode of Stylish is brought to you by New Balance. The 204 is designed to be styled your way with a versatile silhouette that works effortlessly with your wardrobe. Discover the collection in store or online today.
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C
This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, lifestyle, brand, and beauty. I am Joanna Fleming. I'm with Rhiannon Joyce and Annika Joshi Smith today.
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A
Introing again. How did I end up in this?
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B
I love it.
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C
I don't know how I ended up doing this.
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A
I basically just forced you to do it. So, Jo, you're doing the intro.
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C
Well, we've been seeing this particular trend happening on socials at the moment, and I really wanted to get. Because, Annika, I know you'll have a really good list. Actually, you would as well. But Annika is like our bougie person in the room that will always have, like, an outrageous recommendation. I cannot wait to hear your list of these things. So if you haven't seen it, a lot of people, mainly on TikTok, are doing their five things that are worth the money. And it's just like things that you would spend the money on time and time again if you could, because it's that worth it. So, Anika, I want to get your list off the bat, and then I'll throw to you ri.
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B
Okay. Apologies in advance. Tabby's a classic luxury handbag. Mine is the Loewe Flamenco. Augustina's Beta, the rich cream. I know, I know, I know. Keratin hair treatment and Kate everything but Kate Denim particularly. Is that freaking good?
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A
Oh, the dream list. We knew you were going to nail this.
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B
I saw. We. How about you, Riri?
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A
Oh, okay. Mine is not very chic, but an electric toothbrush every day of the week. I'm obsessed.
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C
I like that one.
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A
Yeah. Oral B. Thank you very much. The Westman Atelier bronzing drops. Took these to Europe. I unfortunately, will be repeat purchasing because they are quite expensive. A piece of art. You decide what you love. But. But I always think it's worth investing a good pair of runners. I'm a runner and I just. Every time I've spent the money, it's always paid off. My knees and at my age really need the extra support.
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C
Didn't have your toenail, though.
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A
No, no, never, Never the toenails. We just actually, it's grown back. And the Charlotte Tilbury flawless filter. I've tried all the dupes. They don't stack up good ones.
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C
Jo. Mine is very beauty heavy, but I want to start with a coffee machine because the cost per use is like in the negatives.
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A
What Ma, what Shane are you rolling with?
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C
I think we have a Breville. Oh yeah, nice. Yeah I'm pretty sure I've got the
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B
Lilith and it is bomb.
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C
Yeah it's honestly it's really good. It's very easy to use as well. The osmosis rescue which I've mentioned on this podcast before, a really great anti inflammatory serum. It's very expensive, it's like 250 bucks but I swear by it. Laser hair removal. I've pretty much had my whole body lasered and it is honestly the best thing I've ever done. I would do it a thousand times over. An at home LED mask but only if it's a good quality one. And lip blushing. Yeah, absolutely no regrets about lip blushing before my wedding is honestly the best use of my money. I never really have to wear other lip products so it saved me money in the high.
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A
I'm almost convinced, I'm almost convinced I
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C
have, I've convinced a few other friends to have it done. Actually Kate, I think you did you message me about it the other day. Yeah, Kate, our senior producer message me about it.
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A
She's nodding off, Mark.
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C
Yeah, yeah, I'm not making that up.
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A
And she's getting it done. So another, another influence by you Jo.
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B
I need to do it because I can't leave the house now without lip liner. Like that's become my thing and I'm like okay, I think, I think I'm on the bandwagon.
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C
My problem is that my lip products would just wear off so quickly and then I feel like I'm having to reapply all the time that's so busy I just don't get a chance to do it. Alright, the swap.
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B
Okay, so as we all know, or if you don't know, I am a new mum. I've got a beautiful little four month old which is shocking to me. I'm going through a sleep regression right now, hence the very, very tired eyes. But thank God for Kosas concealer because it's making me feel somewhat alive. But I came across a really beautiful article this week and it was by Courtney McIntosh because from the Inara and the headline read the career I wanted before Motherhood isn't the career I want now. And this one made me stop in my tracks because I think motherhood often we talk about the highlight reel and a lot of the time we don't talk about what it's actually like, what it actually makes you feel and for someone who has had their career been so intrinsic to their identity. I'm going through the motions now where I still want my work to be really important to me, but I'm just trying to make it work within my new chapter.
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A
And.
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B
And this article was so beautiful because it was real talk. It was talk from another mum herself who's interviewed so many mums. And the common theme that always pops up is how can we actually adjust? This idea of balance doesn't exist. Like, respectfully, anyone who's on the hunt for it, good luck. I don't think you're gonna find it absolutely. Like, I think it's all about just not feeling so alone in these feelings, especially if your career is something you wanna fall back to and not being so, I guess feeling bad about, like, taking a pause from your career and then trying to, like, find what season's gonna look like for you. So I really enjoyed this article. For anyone who is a new mum or a mum or is a mum to be wanting to be a mum or start a family, I think definitely have a raid because it was insightful.
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A
Yeah. Just to double down. I read this after you shared it in our meeting last week. Arnica. It is so good. And I'm not a mum, I'm not pregnant. But it's definitely top of mind for me, how you go through that transition, how you prepare for yourself. And I felt like the article really covered a lot. It was really nice to read and know that there are people out there that have a shared experience. So high. Loved, loved that recommendation.
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C
Right.
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A
Me, I'm swapping in an account this week. So this is for the girlies and maybe the guys who love fashion brand. Deep dives on fashion brands as well. A lot of streetwear brands. So his name, he's a boy.
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C
Why are we laughing?
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A
Because we never swapping guys. I feel like we always swapping, like, girl accounts. Yeah. The girls. His name is God's Way Williams and he is just so switched on. He's really covering a lot of athleisure brands at the moment. He did a really good deep dive video on Billabong as well in the history of Billabong. And I just love following his content. He's super engaging. I feel like more brands need to be working with him as well. He's super smart. He's got really cool style. I just love following him.
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B
Nice one. Bring back Billabong.
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A
Bring back Billabong.
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B
Roxy, look like my Blue Crush era babes.
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A
I'm a gold cross girl. This is like speaking language.
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C
I always forget that.
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A
I know, I know. Joe, your turn.
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C
Mine is a product that is kind of starting to go a little bit viral. I'm seeing it everywhere and I happen to have a sample in my cupboard. I was like, you know what? I'm going to start using this. I want to know what the fuss is about. It's the newer PDRN Hyaluronic Acid Hydrating Capsule Mist. Very long name. It comes in like a clear bottle and it's got like little. You can almost see little blobs of like blue stuff in it.
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B
I feel like I have this. Is it a Korean brand?
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C
Yeah. Yes. You might have it.
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B
I don't think I've used it.
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C
It's a mist. Yes, yes. So it's got PDR and hyaluronic acid. It's got some other hydrating and barrier supportive ingredients in it as well. It's like a lightweight watery formula. But then it's got these fine oil based capsules in it. So it's really moisturizing. I find the mist is really, really fine. So I actually find you have to spray it like a number of times versus some other mists I have that are like, you know, three sprays and you've pretty much wet your whole face.
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B
You drench.
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C
You've got to do like 10 sprays to like feel like you've got something on your skin, but it's really quite refreshing. So you can use it as part of your skincare routine before you do all your serums and things. Or you can use it throughout the day if you've got makeup on to kind of freshen up your makeup. It's just a really nice kind of product to have there. I actually really froth a mist.
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A
So do I. Yeah, me too. Especially when I'm traveling.
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C
Like, it's such an unnecessary product to have in your skincare routine. Like, it's something that you could definitely drop. It's an optional. If you can afford to have it in your routine, have it in there. But if you can't, it would be like the thing that I would drop out.
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B
I'm going to pretend I never heard anything but no.
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C
I do really love this thing. Up a storm.
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I like the habit it of it. Like, it's very habitual to spray your face.
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I love doing on a plane.
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A
Yes. Yeah, it's my fave.
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B
What are we talking about today, girlies?
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A
So, big episode today. We're going to kick off with Phoebe Gates AI shopping app fair. I know we've spoken about fear on the podcast before, but I'm not sure if you guys have seen in recent headlines they've come under fire for taking affiliate credits on purchases they allegedly didn't earn. And there's a bit to get through with that one. And then we're going to wrap up discussing whether or not it's weird for wealthy influencers to ask brands for free product, but we will get into that right after a word from today's sponsor.
- [08:30]
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One of the biggest shifts we've seen in fashion over the past few years has been moving away from dressing for trends and more towards dressing in a way that feels like you. We're seeing people build wardrobes that are much more intentional, investing in pieces that they'll wear over and over again, and I think shoes are one of the best pieces for that. The right pair somehow works with everything becoming part of your everyday uniform rather than a statement piece. That's why the new balance 204 feels like such a natural fit. It has a clean, understated silhouette that's designed to be styled your way. Instead of defining your look, they add and adapt to whatever your personal style is, whether that's relaxed everyday dressing or something a little bit more elevated. It comes in four really considered colorways and suede too, so there's an option regardless of your aesthetic. If you're in the mood to add a really versatile sneaker into your rotation, you can shop the New Balance 204 now in store online@newbalance.com thank you so much to New Balance for making this episode of stylish possible.
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A
As I said up top, fia Phoebe Gates AI shopping app has landed itself in some very, very hot water. All allegedly at this point in time. We will have our little legal hats on throughout this segment. You will hear allegedly a lot because this is still very much a moving beast. So for those of you who don't know, FIA is an AI powered shopping app. It was actually founded by Bill Gates daughter Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kiani. They've recently come under last week after investigation by Bloomberg claimed that they'd been taking credit for sales they didn't actually generate. This piece we will include in the show notes. It's definitely worth reading, guys. It's very, very illuminating. This is a really serious allegation and other brands have been in legal battles over similar practices. We're going to unpack that in a moment. We think it's really important first to tell you more about the brand.
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C
So Phoebe and Sophia, the founders went on call her daddy and we're talking about their business. And she actually had quite a candid conversation at the time about ne. Nepotism. And we were speaking about that on the episode when we were discussing it. And they had so many investors in this brand. Like they had Khloe Kardashian, they had Alex Earl, Mindy Kaling.
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A
I remember the Call Her Daddy episode. Yes, because of the nepotism thing, but also because they referred to how they actually got Kris Jenner to invest in the app.
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C
Yes.
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A
Look, affiliate marketing can get a little bit jargony if I'm being really honest. There's a lot of buzzwords, so we're going to try to explain it in the most like layman's terms. So basically, Fear is an app where the purpose of the app is for it to be a browse extension tool that it basically scans the Internet. So while you're shopping, it will scan the Internet and help you find alternative versions of the same item at the lowest price. So let's say I'm on Farfetch and I found a jacket that's $1,000. It will go scan the Internet, do all the heavy lifting for me, and basically pull up any other websites that have it at a cheaper rate. So it's trying to be a really efficient AI shopper in a way.
- [11:20]
B
And when your shopping assistant. And I think that's why it got our attention originally because again, they came to disrupt. That was the whole goal. And for time, poor women and people in general, I think having someone who can scour the Internet for you and actually find a lot of alternate options as well as resale options. We really love that sustainability piece, how they called out looking for secondhand pieces that also had that great value add as well. So I remember being quite excited and genuinely excited when this first was announced because it was offering a real solution to, I think, a problem that a lot of us time poor people have.
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A
Yeah, and affiliate marketing isn't new. It's been around for a really long time. But I agree with you, Anaga. It felt like it was offering a fresh very almost like a young take as well. If you guys aren't familiar with what affiliate marketing is, it's basically means that Fear, or any other affiliate marketing company earns a commission when people make purchases through the Fear app while using that browser extension. Let's get back to the allegations that Fear is actually facing. And again, guys, this is a bit jargony. There's a lot of legal stuff and it's very tech heavy. So we're going to simplify it. In the best way that we can. So the testing was done by Bloomberg Capital One Shopping, which is also an affiliate marketing brand, and an independent researcher, Ben Edelman. So they're claiming that Fear has been doing something called cookie stuffing.
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C
And we're going to hear a lot
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more about Ben and stuffing cookies. So cookie stuffing is a form of affiliate fraud from a website where they secretly place a tracking cookie on a person's computer without their consent or knowledge and most importantly, without the person having clicked on the affiliate's legitimate link.
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C
So to be specific, in Figures Case, what has happened here is that it's alleged that FEAR was opening up background tabs when a user was checking out on a merchant's website and then injecting their referral code so that FEAR would be paid a commission when the consumer made the purchase. But they would also override any other affiliate codes for their own code, which means that they're allegedly illegally claiming commission that wasn't theirs to claim.
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A
According to TechCrunch, other startups have been sued over cookie stuffing, notably Honey, which Annika. We were all laughing up Mike. I feel like we've all been a sucker for like a honey coat.
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B
It reminds me of Obsessed with Honey. I had the extension. I was always looking for my little deals growing up.
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A
Same Honey is actually owned by PayPal and remains the subject of an ongoing class action lawsuit. PayPal has been locked in this lawsuit for over a year and is being sued by YouTube creators for loss of affiliate commissions. Bloomberg's investigation found that Fear was claiming credit for sales it didn't actually drive, which most affiliate programs strictly forbid.
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C
FEAR has actually made a comment on this. As far as spokesperson had this to say within the last 24 hours, we were made aware that in a recent release our codebase was causing misattributions from a subset of users. As soon as we were notified, our team worked overnight to identify and mitigate and has since resolved this issue. Bloomberg then retested the extension after contacting FIA and found that the cookie stuffing was no longer happening. But it's kind of a little bit too late given that it was happening. There are some really serious ramifications for cookie stuffing. It is a type of fraud. So this is going to have a fallout essentially. What do we think is playing out in the FIA office right now?
- [14:37]
A
Probably crisis mode. Definitely some red alarms going off. And you know, from a brand trust point of view, this is less than ideal given that they are not a very established brand. What I will say is Phoebe has an established last name. And I think there has been a lot of weight behind the launch of their business given she is related to Bill Gates. So Bill Gates is her father. It's interesting to me because a lot of commentary I've seen online, there have been people saying that they don't want to participate in the female founder tear down story or narrative because they're both really young, they're females. We need to be supporting women in business. To that, I would say I feel it's very important that we acknowledge that Phoebe Gates's journey of as a female founder is very different to the average female founder. The average female founder does not have the Rolodex that Phoebe would have had handed to her by her dad. And let's be really honest, there's not a world where she's not going to her dad bank. Can you open doors for me?
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B
Absolutely.
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A
I know the original Call Her Daddy episode, they really, you know, went deep on the nepotism piece. But the reality of it is she has still had an upper hand to most people. And that is also why I think a lot of people have been quite angry and reacting to this story with a lot of negativity or commentary. And why his name is also being brought into the narrative because she's had a very, very different journey to be able to build this business, to be able to raise 35 million from the run sheet of celebrities that you were rattling off, Joe, there's so many more. There's Alex Earl, there's Rachel Zo, you know, Kris Jenner. These are serious names. And I do believe that those doors will likely open because of the relationship that she has with her dad.
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B
Yeah, absolutely. You can't deny the axis.
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C
I wouldn't want to be in their boardrooms right now because I think those conversations would be. I'd be sweating at those tables.
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A
I think for a brand that is not super established and is very much in the mode of disruptor in this industry, as I said up top, affiliate marketing has been around for a while. I think how they've tried to position themselves in the affiliate game is that they've got a fresh, modern take on affiliates and they do appear very AI led. People don't trust AI. People are very skeptical. You then have a very reputable, very trusted media outlet like Bloomberg and an expert in affiliate marketing coming for your brand. Brand. It is very, very difficult to build that trust back with the consumer. To your point, Joe, about the number of celebrities that have backed this brand as well, it's also that trust and that Awkwardness is then translated to the investors because they did a full public post announcing who those investors were. So we know it's Alex Earl, we know it's Khloe Kardashian, we know that Rachel Zo. There are some big names on that list who are now associated with this brand and it's eroded their trust totally.
- [17:23]
B
And I think this is that kind of greater issue as well. When you look at brand that's pretty much what's a year old, if that maybe just a little bit over. And within that time span, they really have raised so much capital within their business. And I think when I kind of drilled into it a little bit deeper, I actually follow Kate McAndrew over on TikTok and she made some really interesting points around the due diligence checks. And like, how did this happen? Because when you've got a beast this big, they've got code, they've got tech. I'm not gonna even try and claim and be a tech expert right now. Cause I don't even know what it means. But it kind of is this big shiny thing, right? You've got these names. You explain, expect that people are doing that due diligence for you. You expect that all of this is kind of happening with your investment. It's a sound investment. But James and I, my husband, were actually talking about it last night and I was like, babe, remember we invested in crypto, like, did we do any due diligence checks? And he was like, fuck no. We just got on the bandwagon with the big shiny thing and lucky it paid off. But this is one of those things where like you said, right, we already don't trust AI, I don't trust the robots, yet here I am using Claude. But it's like you don't know where your information is. There's the privacy piece. There's just that unknown element which unfortunately I think puts the fear in people, the fear even back in anyone playing within this space. And I think that like those conversations at large within the Fear head office right now, how do we get that trust back? Because we've already lost so much.
- [18:48]
A
It's really interesting to me because I think a lot of the sentiment online is very negative and very like anti capitalist, anti billionaire, because Phoebe is the daughter of a billionaire. So, yeah, it's one of those scenarios where I can appreciate why people are frustrated.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, a lot of people can just look at this and go, spoiled rich kid is made a business and then that business is not working out.
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C
People have Actually gone to jail for this.
- [19:13]
B
Yeah.
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C
So that's why we're kind of talking about this situation, because what are going to be the ramifications for Phoebe and Sophia as the founders of this business and other people that are involved in the business? A really good TikTok by Katherine. JK simplified this for me. She detailed another case of affiliate fraud involving ebay that Ben Edelman also uncovered.
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A
So that was his OG Uncovery. He is the goat. He's a full sleuth. Affiliate sleuth. I love that.
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C
So a guy was running an online ad network and had banner placements on heaps of different websites. And he made $28 million from eBay commissions by modifying his software so that if you visited a website with any of his banners, he would, without you knowing, cause your browser to contact ebay and receive an affiliate tracking cookie, which made him the referrer. So that if you visited ebay at any point in the future to buy anything, he'd receive the commission for that purchase. And he actually went to federal prison. I think it was for.
- [20:09]
A
It was five months. I watched the same video I found that was such a good explainer one for us to include in the show notes as well.
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C
Yes. It's a really good, like, breakdown of exactly what has happened here and examples of other scenarios where this has played out as well. And as we said before, honey, who are owned by PayPal, are currently still going through legal proceedings in relation to this as well.
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B
Okay, so do we think that they're gonna make an example out of fear?
- [20:32]
C
There's going to have to be an investigation into how long this was happening and who it happened to and how much money has been generated as a result of this. And I think that will determine the outcome here from a legal perspective and whether that's fines or other forms of legal action.
- [20:46]
B
This is so layered. It's just so scary as well, because obviously going back to the ebay case that you just spoke about, Joe, it sounds really strategic. It sounds really like, well thought out, calculated. Like the code situation. It still blows my mind.
- [21:01]
C
If it wasn't for Ben Edelman, honestly, that guy would have gotten away with that.
- [21:05]
A
He needs to update his LinkedIn affiliate sleuth.
- [21:12]
C
Don't fuck with Ben Edelman.
- [21:13]
A
Okay?
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C
Don't even try to. Cookie stuff.
- [21:15]
A
That's the closing statement, guys. Next, we're discussing whether it's weird for wealthy influencers to ask brands for free products. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor.
- [21:26]
C
Even if you have your makeup routine Locked down. Most of us aren't opposed to trying something new just because our friend recommended it. Speaking of, I have two product recs to share. Well, three because the first is an incredible lip combo. The new YSL Love Nude Kiss Shaper Liner and Love Nude Lip Blusher which give this soft wash of color and blurring effect that's perfect for every day. Then there's the Bobbi Brown Vitamin Rich face base. Plus there's a reason this features in so many makeup tutorials. I'm actually wearing it on my face now. It's the best of the best with 24 hour priming and 5 times more vitamins for Glow Glowing makeup Ready skin. Shop these products and so many more at Miya online and in store. And a huge thank you to Maya for making this episode of Stylish possible. So last week, influencer Alexandra LeClaire came under fire for messages that showed her allegedly requesting a gifted item via DM from Australian brand Runaway, the label. Now, if you're not familiar with Alexandra, aside from being a very, very popular fashion and lifestyle content creator, I think she has millions of followers. She's also the wife of Ferrari Formula one driver Charles Leclerc.
- [22:23]
A
I feel she's really popping off lately because she was at the Shock Moss Runway. She's been invited to the show quite a few times and I feel like she's really breaking into the fashion world as like a legitimate creator. I feel like she's done a really good job at building her personal brand. Also, outside of being Charlie Claire's driver. Yeah, they also really well.
- [22:41]
C
Driver,
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A
driver.
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B
Wow.
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A
I was going wife. She's also his driver.
- [22:48]
C
Yeah, probably.
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A
Probably packs his bag and everything. No, they also just got married in. Their wedding was absolutely stunning. So I feel like she's coming off the back of a serious run of engagement online as well. Like she's pretty well known now.
- [23:01]
C
Yeah, absolutely. Now, Runaway, the label who have a very big following on social. So I think that's like 700,000 followers on Instagram, 80,000 on TikTok. They posted a TikTok about this exchange in their DMs and they turned the phone and showed a screenshot of a DM that they allege. I mean we can visually see it.
- [23:22]
A
We saw a blue tick. Yeah, we saw a blue tick. It would pretty. I mean, in the conversation of AI that we've had today, don't trust anything you don't know.
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C
Apparently this DM is from Alexandra, from what we can see. And the DM reads, hi, I was looking at outfits for my upcoming summer trips. And I was wondering if you'd be interested in sending me this blue set. It's so cute. And it's. She's just like basically replied to it.
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A
It's just a replied to either an ad that she's seen or just a random post on their feed.
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C
But the reaction was not really what I think the brand anticipated. No, there was a lot of backlash and a lot of commenters were really angry that a very wealthy influencer was asking for gifted items instead of just buying it directly from the brand. The backlash was so intense that the brand had to turn off the comments before deleting the video entirely.
- [24:09]
A
Yeah, that was the point where I saw it. Comments were off. And I went, oh, what happened here? You know, if the comments are off, it's like an indicating, like something went
- [24:17]
B
wrong, something's gone wrong. That's how you always get our attention now.
- [24:21]
C
It sparked a bigger conversation. When an influencer can clearly afford the product, is asking for it to be gifted simply part of the job or is it an overstep? I actually asked some of my. My friends about this without any other context, and I was like, what are your thoughts? Because I work as a content creator, so I can't really see that from the other perspective of, like, not understanding how the industry works.
- [24:42]
A
What was the verdict in the group chat?
- [24:44]
C
They said it was weird for the brand to share the dm.
- [24:47]
A
That's what I thought. Literally when I saw this, I was like, ooh, I don't know about that. Yes.
- [24:53]
C
So some commentary did side with Alexandra. One TikTok we saw by creator Lil Deb said, as someone who works in PR influencer marketing, it's not an at all weird that Alexandra Leclaire DM'd a brand. She has over 1 million followers and obviously has the money to buy it herself. But that's not the point. She clearly likes and wanted to work with the brand and sent them a very kind dm, not begging them and simply asked if they wanted to partner with her for exposure. I think the brand posting the message she sent them was way weirder.
- [25:21]
A
Yeah, let's start there. The most obvious place to start.
- [25:25]
C
Yes.
- [25:25]
A
As I said, when I saw the initial video, I. Look, it's one of those classic cases of. Of intentions versus interpretations are very different. I believe that the social team had the purest intentions of sharing this video as a really exciting oh my God moment. Like, she's got over a million followers, she's a big celebrity name, she's wearing our Brand, let's turn the phone on and let's film this interaction. I do think there is little to no malice here. I don't feel like they were, like, concocting up this plan to be like, this could go south and let's use it to garner attention. I genuinely believe that the team were just really excited.
- [26:00]
B
Yeah.
- [26:00]
A
Now, where it falls down for me is the actual physical showing the DM and her account. I. There is something about that that really sits uneasy with me. I do feel like people who screenshot any conversation that they've had in the DM or a text message and shares that in a public domain without consent from that person is a bit icky. What do you guys think?
- [26:21]
B
I'm with you on this. I think that's where it falls down because obviously when you're inside an office, and I get it, we're in a social media age, having that type of video that I guess when you're creating, like, what it was like in the office at that moment, because for this brand, that was a win. Like, there's no denying that someone who was so important and in the zeitgeist right now, reach out to your small brand and an Australian brand at that. It's so exciting to take it to socials and publicize it without Alexandra's consent. That's where I'm like, oh, the ethics here, for me, I think that's where I go. I don't know if that was the right way to go about it. There could be like, you know, we see it all the time on socials when people get followed by, like, let's say I'm going to go back to Dorit. I don't know why me and my Real Housewives obsession always comes through. If Dorit followed me, I'd probably want to share it with the world. But it's like, there's different ways in which you can share this type of exciting news. Like, let's say you did gift her and she wore it huge.
- [27:16]
C
Yeah.
- [27:17]
A
Do you know what, though? It's also really common for celebrities to do this.
- [27:20]
B
Yes.
- [27:21]
A
Like, I feel like, like, in a traditional PR forum, celebrities request stuff from brands. Like, let's talk about when Megan Marle was here in Australia and she's wearing all the Australian brands. Like, it was known that she requested so much product from various Australian brands and it wasn't guaranteed that she was going to wear it. So in a traditional PR environment, that's, like, very common. It just feels like this is, like the social media take of what Celebrities do all the time with influences. It's just like a more modern, less formal version of that happening.
- [27:49]
C
Anyone that works in PR or, you know, for fashion and beauty brands, they are getting multiple dms like this per day from different creators and that might be to work together in a contra capacity where they're creating content in exchange for gifting. That doesn't happen as much these days, but it can with micro creators. But it's just commonplace. Like, this isn't an uncommon thing to happen to have someone reach out. Usually it's through their management, though, or their stylist. So it is like a, maybe a little bit of an anomaly that she's reached out to this brand, being someone that has, you know, over a million follow followers and she's reached out to them herself on her platform.
- [28:26]
A
Yeah. I think she won't be doing that again.
- [28:28]
C
No. And I imagine that her management team would be fuming about this scenario because they would not be happy that the brand has shared a personal, private DM that was not meant for everyone's.
- [28:40]
A
Yeah.
- [28:40]
C
You know, worldview. If she wanted everyone to know that she'd sent the dm, she would have just commented on the post.
- [28:45]
A
Exactly. It's also one of those scenarios where it's a little bit of a storm in the teacup.
- [28:49]
C
Yes.
- [28:50]
A
On the Internet. The Internet. Like, I do feel like the volume of anger and frustration that people have towards Alexander feels a little bit unnecessary.
- [28:58]
C
Yes.
- [28:59]
A
Like at the end of the day. And maybe that's because my perception is coming from a person who's in the industry. And to your point, John, my people do this all the time.
- [29:05]
C
Yeah.
- [29:05]
A
Like, it's not that uncommon. I think the wealth element of it adds another layer where people are quite frustrated. Given the economic crisis right now and that everyone is really struggling. It feels a bit audacious for someone of that stature who was living in Monaco tax free, as you know, flying around that part. Yeah. Flying around the world in DJs. I get it, it's on the nose, but I don't think it's deep enough to revoke that amount of anger. And there were a few comments I was reading. I was like, oh, this is misplaced anger.
- [29:31]
B
I want to come at it from a sales angle. Right. Like, let's talk about who Alex is. We've spoken about her followers, her influence, who she is right now and why she's so culturally important. So run away the label. Yes. I've got 700,000 followers, but still on the global scale, that's a small brand and for an Australian brand to kind of get that, let's say, segue into this environment and to get that attention, that is huge. And for a brand to gift, it's not charity, it's actually strategic marketing spend. And that's something that I think maybe, you know, your average Jo might not be aware of, like how this all works. Because from my industry, what I've seen firsthand is the power of actually partnering with someone who has this much influence in the environment, even if she was just seen wearing that piece, that could generate sales, that could turn this brand getting so much exposure into the US space. In particular, like Runaway have recently partnered, I think, with Revolve. And when you see these known faces, it gives a brand credibility. It gives them so much more, I guess, appetite and appeal. When we are in such a saturated space right now, like, we're hearing about the downfall of retail. Retail daily. This morning on my drive in, I was listening to the news and there was another retailer that was shutting down. It's really devastating. So I just want to go back to that sentiment around Runaway and obviously their intentions versus interpretation. I don't think there was malice here. I think they were genuinely excited because it is the type of success that could catapult overnight from someone like this wearing their brand.
- [30:58]
A
I find it really interesting that you've classified them as a small brand because when you said that earlier, I have to be honest, you with.
- [31:04]
B
I was like, are they.
- [31:05]
A
Because of the floor counts. But that context is really good, Annika, because people like me will be listening as being like, but they've got 700,000 followers. They're not small. So I think it's a really good perspective to give from an industry point of view. I also think the price point of the item is really interesting because if I saw Alexandra wearing this dress, I'd be like, oh, hello, Queen. Like, she's wearing something that's a bit more affordable, a bit more attainable. So it's also creates this, like, damned if you do, damned if you don't. I mean, I don't know if she would disclose it was gifted or not. She probably have to now.
- [31:39]
C
I don't know that she's going to be wearing it.
- [31:40]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's the sad part, isn't it? She's probably not going to wear the dress right now. But assuming that, you know, someone like her is wearing a brand that is quite affordable, I commend that. I'm like, okay, high, low, Queenie.
- [31:52]
B
Yeah.
- [31:52]
A
So it is one of those scenarios for me, where I'm like, is this just an opportunity to just throw shade?
- [31:57]
C
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I agree with you that there was no malice. And to your point as well, Anika, I think that the better way to go about it would have been don't post the dm, wait until she's in the dress, then post her in the dress and get your exposure that way.
- [32:12]
A
Yeah, it's one of those scenarios where sometimes taking a beat and reassessing is the best point of play. Because, Joe, I feel had they done that, they probably would have got to a point where they would have long term been like, there would have been so much more opportunity. The point that you made, Annika, it's very much about how is this a marketing moment in a way for them to, you know, generate revenue. Had she been photographed in the dress, that would have been way more influential. Way, way, way more.
- [32:38]
C
Yeah. The value of her wearing the dress would have way outweighed the cost of the dress for the brand.
- [32:42]
A
That's all for this week's episode of Stylish. Please, if you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review. I know we keep banging on about this week to week, but it really does help us grow the show, particularly on Spotify. Thank you so much to our stylish team. Lucy Hunt, Kate, Emma Burke and Zoe Twiddle. New name, Unloved. Zoe has just joined our team as a producer. Mads and I will be back here this Friday. We can't wait, guys. I'll see you then.
- [33:08]
C
Bye.
- [33:09]
B
Bye.
- [33:17]
A
This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land.
- [33:20]
C
Always was, always will be aboriginal land.